Totally with you on a) the defintion of shipping and b) that it would not be narratively satisfying to have the show go in the Will and Mike get together direction, for all the reasons you listed.
The dialogue around it also makes it nearly impossible to find meta or even just discussions around Mike that don't centre the possibility of a romantic relations with Will and it's so frustrating. I love that little guy and I just want to talk about how much he loves his friends!
But then the first thing I created for this fandom was a byler breakup fic so... I'm probably not in the majority.
Anyway keep on trucking and I LOVE Robin and Steve's Epic Platonic Soulmate Mixtape <3
Ah thank you! Yeah. The series is grounded in the friendship the party has. That's the first thing we learn about them. It feels insulting to both the characters and anyone who likes the non romantic aspects of relationships when people insinuate that Will couldn't have a happy ending without dating Mike. (Mike doesn't owe Will a romantic relationship. Will doesn't owe Mike one!! It also feels insulting that people say there's going to be a time skip and I guess Will is still pining for him? Let him let go at that point Sheesh.).
The basis of any romantic relationship, especially in canon, between Will and Mike (or any party members) is a deep and strong friendship. Acting like those aren't as important is so rude to people and mischaracterizes them. Mike Wheeler loves his friends so much he would jump off a cliff for any of them. He would deny their death with the barest shred of illogical proof even when presented with a body. He would try to contact a girl for almost a year to see if she was still alive. He holds his friend's hand when it seems he's fading away, insists on going into danger to help with a distraction, and apologizes better to a friend than his girlfriend. He's a moody, angsty teenager, going through a lot of emotions and confusion, and can be an asshole even to his friends, but my god what are you doing if you deny Mike's platonic relationships mean everything to him.
It's also disregarding Will's relationships too! Like. El is his sister now!! You cannot separate that. Would Will want to date Mike even? Loving and wanting to date are different. Dating a sister's ex? Legit so many arguments are just saying El doesn't love Mike, and I guess implying she wouldn't give a shit if Mike stsrted dating a friend that became a brother who is also the only one as deeply connected to the Upside Down as her. It gives me the vibes of people like...taking away the agency El has in her own feelings and saying she loves Mike.
Maybe he just wants to be able to honest about his feelings. Get them off his chest. Keep his friendship with Mike but have everything out in the open, and they can work through that together. Strengthen their friendship and maybe be open to potentially dating in the future (there is an apocalypse on!) while also strengthening their friendship with El. So many people just. Ignore her and her feelings in all this, as though both Will and Mike have not showed they valued her feelings greatly. Why would that not factor in at all? Why would Will put his sister into that position? Would it not be awkward for Mike too?
That's why it wouldnt be satisfactorily executed in S5. The characters and the audience need time to process any breakup between El and Mike. Let them cool off and us register it. Another anon said if they were going blr canon route they should have ended mlvn in S4, and I agree. It needs Breathing room. Not just them breaking up and a two year time skip where we're told time has passed but for us it feels like nothing, so the impact isn't the same and it doesn't have the same satisfaction of knowing they've worked it out but just being told about it. If that makes sense?
Plus the series has struggled with ending romo relationships, and the only one starting that wasn't awkward or weird (Both Nancy and Jon AND Joyce and Hop have Murray be the catalyst which annoying and kinda lazy, not to mention the cheating) was Lucas and Max. That doesn't paint a picture of confidence in me. Sometimes a ship going canon is not actually good. Sometimes in fandom you are actually thankful a ship that honestly should have been canon by the end, or at least post-series didn't, because whatever the show runners would have done with it would have probably ruined whatever dynamic that made them compelling in the first place. it may feel like a betrayal or rip off at first, and would likely continue to, but with time comes a feeling of oh. Maybe it's better this way... Would come.
So yes. Seeing how people reacted to me simply saying that, by the end of the series, I don't think it could satisfyingly become canon, while prioritizing their relationships with each other, Not a lot of nuance is allowed, it seems. Though I'm sure many shippers are cool and chill, it's really just a few people who are loud about it that try to inhibit discussion or meta, it's a damn shame that the only discussion allowed to those shippers is when or how it will be canon. Where's the fun in that? Everyone can interact with fandom differently, and it's a shame some folks want to dictate how others do so.
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Robot hdb and mechanic/technician kim pt 2, more serious this time
@morphlingunderscore thank you for taking interest in this!!! originally i didn't have too many thoughts about it but.... Something shifted, and last night i couldn't stop thinking about it, sorry if it got a bit too long kdkdkgks i got more invested than i thought i would
Maybe he was made by Dora? As part of a prototype series of robots, i think hdb could be harrys model And maybe she even named harry just. Harry. Bc there was something about him, about how programming, that was faulty but made him special (the skills. They make him too human while not human enough) (also maybe part of his program knows he had a name but it got wiped too, and he is fixated on it, on having lost that. .... It could be kept as part of a letter in a compartment somewhere in his robotic body... Maybe even in his chest cavity... Maybe Kim finds it when having to fix something in there........ No concrete thoughts there, just a vague idea that I'm keeping here.)
At first this would be very interesting, getting herself attached to him (and i feel like it's also the thing that makes Kim so invested in him later down the line)
But. Things keep breaking, he has blackouts (maybe caused by overheating? Maybe the skills cause the overheating and/or short-circuiting?), He keeps messing up his tasks, and his system may not be fully capable of following the classic three laws of robotics all the way through. It gets exhausting, she has better projects to work on, others that can stop being prototypes, more worthy of time and resources, that will get recognition, and get her out of the place they're living in.
And so she leaves, and leaves her old lab and obsolete projects to gather dust never to be used again.
Kim, on the other hand, really just is a mechanic for the most part, but he can really work with any machine, and would know about programming and circuits and everything, having learned about this on his free time.
This interest starts properly after having moved from foster families a few times, and managing to get a mechanic to take him and teach him how it all works, getting his hands on an actual engine,tho hes always been interested even as a child, from what he could find in books.
He has his own garage now, and works on any machine you bring him, from cars to a microwave, anything that helps him pay the bills and allows him to work with things he enjoys. Also doing these kind of household appliance fixes makes him go out in search for any parts that he may need for his job, whatever's cheaper (por straight up free, of you know where to go)
I think that, like in canon, it's thanks to Kim that harry wakes up again. In this case maybe hes looking around for something and manages to shock harry in a way that his body starts right there and then? Idk too much about this kinda stuff and it's late. It could also be noise with enough vibration to make Harry's gears shift again. But as i said idk about machines I'm general nor if that makes sense/is possible)
The rest is basically this: harry helps Kim find parts, either that they can use on him or on other machines. He malfunctions more now bc both of the prevailing issues, the wipe out, and the passing of time, and Kim is willing to fix the parts he can, and understand the ones that seem to make no sense, and this, all this, new, can bring a change to Kim's monotonous life, spark something in him, also be confronted about some of his being stagnant by harry. Also the wipeout isn't a complete thing, this guy would realize Kim likes speedfreaks and would use himself as a radio to play it just to see him have a good time, for example. His skills still work with understanding humans (... Sometimes).
another way of doing this tho would be hay being made for the rcm (still Dora's creation imo). Faulty but good for all the same reasons + this robot will give you a ridiculous list of theories/keep track of evidence/of witnesses) alibis/the things that have no relation to the case you don't want him to remember but still does.
In this case one of his faults could also be in fact his memory, and it being faulty enough it had an almost full cleaning could be from people trying to delete info from it and failing. Or him doing it himself so he feels like he still has a reason for not being discarded by the rcm. And kim could still be part of the rcm but both as a mechanic and a detective, or just mechanic, or just detective on paper but with the knowledge
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Ok but can we talk about how out of all the major male characters that Ryunosuke interacts with throughout the story, van Zieks is the ONLY one that isn't hiding something from/lying to him at one point or another?? Sholmes lies about Kazuma being alive, Kazuma hides the fact that he's going to Britain as a hired assassin, Yujin hides details about the Professor killings from him in 2-2, Stronghart lies about... Well, everything really. Like there's so much I could say about him lol. Gregson hides the fact that he helped frame Genshin for the Professor killings, McGilded lies about having been the culprit in the omnibus case, Jigoku lies about having been the one to kill Gregson... Etc etc. I personally can't remember a single point where van Zieks was hiding things from Ryuu or just straight up lying about important things to his face. He's an ass to him at first, sure, but he's ultimately on the side of justice and finding out the truth, even if it means hurting his cases or having his worldview challenged (except maybe in the case of Klint, which I'll get into).
Now one might say, "Oh but didn't he hide the fact that he had a brother from Ryunosuke at first?". And to that I say... So what? From van Zieks' point of view, details about his personal life (and ESPECIALLY about Klint) are hard to talk about and, frankly, Ryuu really had no reason to need that info about him, other than just to be nosy. That's why he's so cagey about the topic in 2-3, and why he's (somewhat) more willing to talk about it with him in 2-4/5, because at that point Ryunosuke absolutely DOES need to know more about Klint (and the Professor killings in general). And as for Ryuu's point of view, he really has no reason to be asking about van Zieks' personal life at first, other than the fact that he's just curious about it.
Anyways. I really do believe that, despite how rocky these two's dynamic is at first, it's been built on honesty and straightforward-ness from the start, and I really appreciate how we have an Ace Attorney prosecutor who's more than willing to not hide the truth from his lawyer rival (even if he's making dunks on Ryunosuke half the time, lol)
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I thiiink I processed a bit of my thoughts bout OFF but like, my mind was blown so there isn't much in it. One thing bout it though is that I really love the music in this game, like I be jamming to the battle music it sound so cool and catchy and it's actually stuck in my head. I also love the puzzles in the game, it's not too hard and it's also so nice to do! (I say that but I brute forced at least 2 puzzles. The puzzles right before Zone 1 and Zone 2's bosses... Trial and error even though the key to the puzzle was Right in the area but lazy in I don't wanna go back to look).
Also I love how, even if the game doesn't seem like much, it was hella enjoyable for me, must be cuz of the music. Like, I'd walk around so much finding a bunch of stuff and then battles happen with some banger music and it honestly felt like I just played that game for like a hour even though it was way more than that. Like, I really really enjoyed it.
For the story of the game... I have no idea what story is supposed to be there. But throughout it, whenever the Batter purifies a zone I start doubting if it's the right thing cuz everything looks so... lifeless... Like yeah sure, the spectres are also pretty bad and killing the poor Elsens, also doesn't help how Dedan makes the poor guys so stressed too but I was thinking if there was at least another way than just purifying everything but I'm stuck with the Batter. By the end the Judge saying that I'm the puppeteer but honestly I felt like more of the puppet for some reason.
I'm stuck with the Batter my guy, I won't proceed at all unless I do things that aligns with the Batter's mission. And in either endings, it's all bad in a way that, what's done is done. Choosing the Judge doesn't reverse anything, the world is completely lifeless and "purified," so in the end it's better to just keep being with the Batter and finish what we started. Which is pretty cool cuz I kept wondering Why was the game called OFF and then seeing the Batter ending and I'm like: OOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH (it was the first thing that blew my mind).
Like, I feel like this game's story got A Lot of stuff for me to know (Time to read through what everyone's theories are. I'm not really good with those so I always enjoy reading everyone else's). Like, the thing that I kiiinda get is that there's a lonely child who doesn't like his dad and prefers his mom but the mom doesn't even visit him much. He made 3 friends which he turned into guardians of the zones, and a mom regarded as the Queen. And then there's Batter which I feel like was based off of Boxxer in that comic that the kid was given to by his dad. And like, gestures vaguely, yeah, it's neat :D (my train of thought broke I don't remember what I was going with that).
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