In my Zeus bag today so I'm just gonna put it out there that exactly none of the great Ancient Greek warrior-heroes stayed loyal and faithful and completely monogamous and yet none of them have their greatness questioned nor do we question why they had the cultural prominence that they did and still do.
Jason, the brilliant leader of the Argo, got cold feet when it came to Medea - already put off by some of her magic and then exiled from his birthland because of her political ploys, he took Creusa to bed and fully intended on marrying her despite not properly dissolving things with Medea.
Theseus was a fierce warrior and an incredibly talented king but he had a horrible temper and was almost fatally weak to women. This is the man who got imprisoned in the Underworld for trying to get a friend laid, the man who started the whole Attic War because he couldn't keep his legs closed.
And we cannot at all forget Heracles for whom a not inconsiderable amount of his joy in life was loving people then losing the people around him that he loved. Wives, children, serving boys, mentors, Heracles had a list of lovers - male and female - long enough to rival some gods and even after completing his labours and coming down to the end of his life, he did not have one wife but three.
And y'know what, just because he's a cultural darling, I'll put Achilles up here too because that man was a Theseus type where he was fantastic at the thing he was born to do (that is, fight whereas Theseus' was to rule) but that was not enough to eclipse his horrid temper and his weakness to young pretty things. This is the man that killed two of Apollo's sons because they wouldn't let him hit - Tenes because he refused to let Achilles have his sister and Troilus who refused Achilles so vehemently that he ran into Apollo's temple to avoid him and still couldn't escape.
All four of these men are still celebrated as great heroes and men. All four of these men are given the dignity of nuance, of having their flaws treated as just that, flaws which enrich their character and can be used to discuss the wider cultural point of what truly makes a hero heroic. All four of these men still have their legacies respected.
Why can that same mindset not be applied to Zeus? Zeus, who was a warrior-king raised in seclusion apart from his family. Zeus who must have learned to embrace the violence of thunder for every time he cried as a babe, the Corybantes would bang their shields to hide the sound. Zeus learned to be great because being good would not see the universe's affairs in its order.
The wonderful thing about sympathy is that we never run out of it. There's no rule stopping us from being sympathetic to multiple plights at once, there's no law that necessitate things always exist on the good-evil binary. Yes, Zeus sentenced Prometheus to sufferation in Tartarus for what (to us) seems like a cruel reason. Prometheus only wanted to help humans! But when you think about Prometheus' actions from a king's perspective, the narrative is completely different: Prometheus stole divine knowledge and gifted it to humans after Zeus explicitly told him not to. And this was after Prometheus cheated all the gods out of a huge portion of wealth by having humans keep the best part of a sacrifice's meat while the gods must delight themselves with bones, fat and skin. Yes, Zeus gave Persephone away to Hades without consulting Demeter but what king consults a woman who is not his wife about the arrangement of his daughter's marriage to another king? Yes, Zeus breaks the marriage vows he set with Hera despite his love of her but what is the Master of Fate if not its staunchest slave?
The nuance is there. Even in his most bizarre actions, the nuance and logic and reason is there. The Ancient Greeks weren't a daft people, they worshipped Zeus as their primary god for a reason and they did not associate him with half the vices modern audiences take issue with. Zeus was a father, a visitor, a protector, a fair judge of character, a guide for the lost, the arbiter of revenge for those that had been wronged, a pillar of strength for those who needed it and a shield to protect those who made their home among the biting snakes. His children were reflections of him, extensions of his will who acted both as his mercy and as his retribution, his brothers and sisters deferred to him because he was wise as well as powerful. Zeus didn't become king by accident and it is a damn shame he does not get more respect.
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another part of the lymond chronicles's approach to sexuality/queerness that i'm fascinated by is how lymond reacts (or how he doesn't react) to the attraction men feel for him. and the attraction he feels for men, which is much harder to perceive, i think.
you could say the lack of homosexual romance in the series is due to the fact that 1. it was written in the 60s and 2. dorothy dunnett was an heterosexual woman, and that's probably all there is to it. but also i think it makes sense for lymond as a character?
we see throughout the series how lymond struggles to let people close to him because he wants to protect them, and his loved ones usually get hurt. but there's another reason, and it's that there's a power imbalance between himself and the men he commands. so, as much as those men come to care for him, there's a self-imposed barrier that lymond always keeps up in his every interaction with them. not every man in the series is under his command, tho. lymond thinks in checkmate:
In the wreck had died Diccon Chancellor the English navigator, who had been more than half-way towards becoming the friend he had never quite managed to find and keep, in terms of equality, except sometimes, in passing, with women.
so it makes sense if lymond wants to avoid, or even doesn't allow himself to have romantic feelings for the men around him, but he can have that deeper, more intimate connection with women, because he sees them as his equals.
jerott is a partial exception to the rule because, i think, they were childhood friends (or 'boyhood acquaintances' as jerott himself puts it. i love him so much) first, before jerott was under lymond's command. they were the same age and soldiers in the same army, and that created a connection before lymond had power over him, and so he shows jerott a more intimate part of himself he usually keeps hidden from most people. and he's open about his feelings to him on more than one occasion, too, which is rare.
and there's another male character who isn't under lymond's command and who is attracted to him, which is míkál. lymond notices míkál's beauty, and is very clearly flattered by míkál interest for him. the fact that lymond didn't want to have sex with him never was about lymond's lack of attraction to men, or that he doesn't have sex with men if he doesn't have a reason to do it, in my opinion. i always thought it was because of what happened with the aga, and because lymond just wasn't in the mood to have sex with anyone in that journey.
(yet another male character who doesn't work for lymond and is attracted to him is robin stewart and lymond was seconds away from letting that man suck him off, so you know. there's that lol)
i think i saw someone say that dorothy said lymond "would have chosen heterosexuality for himself" (paraphrasing and i haven't seen the actual quote tho!), and i don't exactly remember the context but i think it was something like, if during his time as a galley slave lymond hadn't been approached by or even sexually abused by men, he wouldn't have known about the attraction they can feel for him, and therefore wouldn't have had sex with men as a tool to get what he wants. i don't exactly know if that's what she was trying to say... and though i think that's interesting, i also don't really care? i admire and respect dunnett and i love seeing her thoughts about the story and characters she wrote, but i will always prioritize my own interpretation of the events of the series over whatever she said. so:
tl;dr: imo the lack of romantic homosexual love from lymond in the series could be because he distances himself from the men who are attracted to or have feelings for him because he can't ignore the power imbalance between himself and those men. and also, as is always the case with lymond: sexual trauma
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20 ^.^
Here have this at 10PM
Okay not married in this one but there's no way Jason wouldn't have learned about this kinda early on so it makes sense
Jason became shockingly familiar with “turtle” noises.
He couldn’t correctly call them turtle noises because he’d done his research. Turtles did make a variety of sounds, but for the most part the mutation—along with learning to speak human language—kept his boyfriend and his brothers from sounding like they would normally.
Not that they were completely without their strange sounds. Raph would frequently hiss when he was frightened. Leo made a bunch of strange chirps when he was annoyed—and thought no one was watching. And Mikey had a whole list of squeaks that he’d let out when he was excited or happy.
Donnie had his own list of strange noises, though most of them Jason just chalked up to his brand of weirdness. Every single emotion seemed to have its own designated sound to go with it. Hisses, growls, squeaks, squawks, snorts, and everything in between.
Jason got used to these noises. After eight months he’d gotten pretty good at deciphering them even. There goes the, “Donnie took a bite of something he doesn’t like” noise. That was the, “Donnie is straining himself to reach for a tool because he’s too lazy to get out of his chair” noise. And how could they ever forget the bizarre giggling sound that occurred when a new invention finally worked.
After eight months, Jason assumed he’d heard it all.
But then…
He definitely didn’t do it on purpose. He left the lab to grab some snacks and some drinks and returned to see Donnie focusing on nothing but sliding two small bits of metal together. Jason approached from behind, watching for a bit before he leaned over to place the juice box on the desk.
The motion made Donnie jump, and as he did he squeaked.
Not a typical human gasp or shriek in the slightest. No. It had the same loud and drawn out noise as a windshield wiper on a dry windshield.
Jason stared at him, eyes wide.
“Jase, be more careful.” Donnie shook his head, acting casual like that insane noise hadn’t just left his throat. “These pieces are delicate.”
Jason just kept staring, the sound looping in his memory as if to burn it into place.
Donnie finally noticed his stare and lifted his goggles. “What?”
“Did you just make that noise?”
He narrowed his eyes. “What noise?”
“That squeak, when I surprised you.”
“Scoff, like you haven’t heard me squeak a dozen times.”
“Not like that!” Jason insisted. He put down his own drink and the bag of chips. Could he recreate the sound? He had to at least try.
At least after eight months he knew how to make the softshell jump.
Even easier to do when Donnie reached for the juice box. Jason lightly poked him under the shoulder right where his scales gave way to his plastron.
Donnie squeaked again. The same noise, though much shorter this time.
“Oh my god,” Jason gasped.
“Will you knock it off!” Donnie swatted at his hand. “It’s not that strange.”
“You sound like a windshield wiper!”
“Rude, like humans don’t make their own weird noises.”
Jason would have argued that, only to get interrupted by a jab to the same spot. A high pitched squeak escaped his throat and he scrambled back before his boyfriend could try again.
“See? You sound like a dehydrated mouse.”
Jason glared. “What does that even mean?”
Donnie smirked at him. “Tiny voice but with a hint of gravel.”
He rolled his eyes and dared approach close enough to take his juice back. “Sorry for being curious when my boyfriend makes a sound I haven’t heard before.”
“You really haven’t?” Donnie tilted his head. “It’s not like I hide it.”
“You tend to make a lot of other squeaky noises. Just what’s up with that one?”
“A remnant from my time as a turtle, I believe.” He lowered his goggles again and got back to work. “At least based on what little I could dig up. Turtle noises are not commonly recorded.”
Jason sipped at his juice and finally plopped down in the other swivel chair. “So red sliders also chirp?”
“When they’re distressed, yes. Leo’s embarrassed of that one, but he never kicked the habit.” Donnie chuckled and then hunched over on his desk, his face inches from the metal he was working with.
Jason scooted over, making sure he was loud about it this time before he lifted his legs and rested them on Donnie’s lap. The softshell didn’t push him off, so he stayed there and opened the bag of chips.
Donnie held out a hand toward him. Jason extended the bag, letting his boyfriend dig out a few chips to munch on before resting it back on his lap and taking a few himself.
“So, how much more of this do you have to work on?”
“It will be less if you don’t interrupt me again.” Donnie stuck his tongue out as he attempted again to fit the metal together.
“Fine, but when this is done we’re watching a movie.”
Donnie chuckled. “Does the dragon crave cuddle time?”
“Watch it, I can kick you in the chin from here.”
“Yes yes, movie after. Now let me work!”
Jason stopped talking, at least, but he crinkled the bag a lot when he reached in for some more chips and made sure to crunch on them extra loud.
“Jase,” Donnie hissed. “Please.”
“Fine,” he grumbled with his mouth full. He ate his chips quieter, thinking through the silence.
Just what exactly would it take to get Donnie to make that hilarious noise again?
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