#jgy and xy could have been avoided

[leatherbookmark]

actually yknow what, yeah jgy’s relationship to the Atrocities he committed IS interesting! it’s just that people are so fucking annoying about them,

[hamliet]

Anon who talked about book 7 of TGCF here! I unfortunately will only have book 8 available this February :') once I get my hands on it I will review it here like I did for the last books if you don't mind! Meanwhile, I still have a lot of thoughts on TGCF, and I hope I don't bother you with how long this ask is 😅

I've seen an interpretation online of the bamboo-hat scene in book 6 in which it says that XL would've never ended up as White No-Face's successor even if the bamboo hat guy didn't appear, because it isn't in XL's nature to do something so destructive and evil. Is it bad that I think think this interpretation diminishes the impact the bamboo-hat scene has for me? Because to me what made that scene so great was the fact that kindness was indeed able to change someone at their worst and by consequence bring out their best self. Hell, what makes the conflict between JW and XL so interesting to me is because XL could've indeed become like him had he not received kindness in his darkest moments, and by consequence JW could've been like XL under the right circumstances. "XL is just naturally gooder™ than JW" is not exactly an interpretation I like, and I think it may even contradict the message of other character arcs in the story as well. HC was saved by the kindness he received from XL, and thus became devoted to him. When HX chose his revenge over his friendship with SQX, it didn't satisfy him, and it even made him more miserable, as he lost his only friend in the process. Guzi, by loving QR unconditionally and genuinely as his son, ended up bringing up to the surface a side of QR that perhaps not even QR knew he had, and it moved his heart enough that he ended up sacrificing himself to save Guzi in turn. QYZ became attached to YY because he showed him compassion when everyone else dismissed him and thought of him as nothing more than a brute. I could go on and on. In other MXTX's books there's also a big emphasis on the impact kindness and genuine connection can have on people. WWX could've easily become a XY or a JGY had he been raised in different circumstances. Hell, the constrast between Bingmei and Bingge hinges on the fact that Bingmei was shown kindness while Bingge wasn't, and the difference between them is of day and night.

Usually they mention the quote "What matters is 'you' and not the state of you.", and that part where HC knew XL wasn't the one who did the guilded banquet Massacre, but I didn't exactly interpret these quotes to mean that XL is naturally good™ in a way that he's able to do no big evil, but rather that he's naturally good in a sense that evil isn't something natural to him, even if he participates in it, which is a theme that can also be seen in characters like JW, HX and QR, who became who they are due to the circumstances in their life shaping them into who they became. It's even highlighted that QR used to be a shy and sweet kid until his environment raised him into a monster. Evil isn't natural but rather something slowly molded by circumstances is how I interpreted it. And as for the Guilded Massacre, it's more that HC saw XL rejecting cursing Yong'an after the bamboo-hat scene and thus rejecting White No-Face's philosophy precisely because it was proven wrong in his eyes, and therefore it would make no sense for XL to be responsible for the guilded banquet massacre later on.

Of course I could be completely wrong in my interpretation, but this is what I picked up while reading the novel. Maybe it's my bias against the immobility of the self? Once again I'm sorry for the wall of text, it's just that I have a lot of thoughts about the way MXTX's books handle the impact that kindness and connection have on the self. I also really like your theories and interpretations not only on MXTX's novels, but for other works as well (I'll only be able to read the ones on JW next month in order to avoid spoilers unfortunately)!

No, I completely agree with you. Actually, I'd go so far as to say that's misreading the story, and the ending--without spoilers--makes this textually explicit. Like, it literally says, not symbolically but directly, that the point is that Xie Lian could have become just like Jun Wu.

So, they're not just misinterpreting, they're misreading. I'm guessing theses are the same kinds of people who think MDZS's message is WWX=good JGY=bad, honestly, when again that means that you're missing the point of the story. (Good point about Luo Binghe, as well!)

To return to TGCF, Hua Cheng's "what matters is you and not the state of you" has nothing at all to do with Xie Lian being a "good" person. In fact, Hua Cheng is pretty explicitly amoral. He's loyal to Xie Lian because Xie Lian was kind to him and he fell in love with him. It does not matter to him whether Xie Lian does good or does bad; that's the point of Wu Ming. It only matters to him that he is Xie Lian, and Xie Lian told him he mattered and did not deserve to be treated as he was being treated.

Of course, one could counter that love itself is a moral virtue, so thereby it saves Hua Cheng and the whole world, but that's for another time haha.

And, of course, please do continue to share your thoughts!!

[llycaons]

ep38 (1/3): that which resembles a romance but is in fact a horror short film

lsz is eager to help ofc, but wwx doesn't know who he is yet

wwx asking for jl and the jiang bell matters - his connection to his old home and family. and apparently the jiang bells are powerful? they were more described in the book. I actually forgot they were even in the show since they're barely talked about

THERE SHE IS!!!!!!!! I love a-qing, such a strong personality, her own goals and motivations, curious and intelligent and out for herself and brave. it is shitty to pretend to be disabled, but I'm going to blame the author for that instead of a 16 yr old orphan girl living on the streets. it's not like it doesn't backfire on her anyway

also she's so funny. 'why do men dress nice when they're poor, this is an attack on me specifically'

FIRST MEETING!!! that blindfold is alarming but the blood looks a little pale (fake)

ohh I could swoon. saints and heroes don't really exist in this world, it's too complicated and brutal for them to survive. but xxc was as close as anyone else ever got and I think a-qing knew she'd never meet someone as special as him again

not to say he doesn't have flaws - his naivete is disastrous for all of them and he overlooks her concerns out of a patronizing dismisiveness when he should be respecting her instincts, which helped her survive all her life on the streets. also, it's admirable of him to be nonjudgemental but xy just has odious vibes and it's a tragedy he was so charmed by him that he didn't pick up on that. sort of a xxc jgy situation except xy was fully in love with him or whatever approximates love for him and I still think jgy was mostly using lxc to survive. so another dark foil to wx just as songxiao are a lighter (but still tragic) parallel

anyway he thinks a-qing is funny and is clearly endeared by her, and she clearly likes him a lot despite lying to him. their dynamic has so much chemistry and potential for being great family, it's a shame they're not more popular to write about. this is probably one of the only reasons he's had to smile since he and SL parted ways

smart girl! this guys sounds like bad news, so get outta there

ah! curse the hyperdeveloped senses of a cultivator!

unlike the tragedy of wwx, this could literally have all been avoided if not for a single person - there are many ways to rewrite this and just have them never cross paths. of course, that misses out on the richness of this story and the themes at play, not to mention their significance for the wider narrative, so I don't particularly like yi city fix-its before the fact. but they're definitely easy

christ he's bleeding like craxy. what did they do to him. and why didn't they do it better

of course as soon as he sees xxc he's like FUCK

yeah and if xy lets xxc touch his hand he'll know he's missing his pinky

...not that I like to think about them having a relationship but IF they had sex I wonder how he managed that

god this is so kind 😭 why couldn't it have been wwx that xxc found and they just had a nice little family time (they're cousins or something) for a decade or so before wwx was comfortable enough to leave. MAN

a-qing sleeping in that coffin then hopping out is so cute I love her

it's only been a day and already he looks perfectly groomed clean robes clear skin fully hydrated etc. the man knows how to look good I gotta say

and he starts right off by being a piece of shit to a-qing. I think the siblings dynamic can be really funny but lbr in canon he terrorized her and she hated him for it

I thought this was kind of dumb. like even if she was blind anyone would feel a SWORD. and if he learns she's not really blind, what, xxc is disappointed? I suppose it means he's less careful around her. bc she was able to witness a lot of his crimes bc he wasn't as watchful, assuming she couldn't see (and therefore could never understand what was happening? ableist of him)

a-qing: please don't leave me alone with this scary stranger we picked up by the side of the road, he's really aggressive and he's lying about who he is and I think he's dangerous

xxc: oh you silly girl. he'll be leaving soon *immediately starts flirting with him*

actually xy comes at this with a very specific angle. it's almost like he's emulating wwx - he presents himself as someone hardworking, uncomplaining, and good-hearted despite the hardships he's clearly gone through. of course xxc was taken in

haha no big deal! I'll just casually drop this little fact! it's definitely not something I want you to know about me so you can sympathize with me while admiring how blase I am about it! MAN

on the one hand I can see why xxc is being so open-minded and I appreciate his kindness. on the other hand he IS misled by his own feelings and she is also literally right. she gives him good reasons not to trust him and he's like *pats her on the head* we'll be fine

the head-pats are sweet when coming from adults to their kids (or jyl to wwx) but it just feels patronizing here

literally this is blatant flirting. a-qing off to the side going 😭 he has a crush what I am supposed to do now!!

and THIS??? I was so shocked the first time I saw this I was like THIS is allowed but wwx and lwj can't hug??? huh??? idk the exact specifications of the censorship but in some ways xy/xxc hits you harder with the gay subtext than any other couple including wx which is so wild to me. and also deeply tragic obviously

I think it helps that the writers have a very solid idea of what this relationship is and exactly how each character felt at every moment of it. meanwhile for wx interactions can be very inconsistent and confusing. anyway GET YOUR HANDS OFF HIM YOU FREAK

so yeah overall super eerie and frightening to see xxc fall so readily in love with someone you KNOW is cruel and sadistic and lying to him and deceiving him. like this could have been a cute second-love kind of deal with a new family in a new city. fresh start. but then again, no it couldn't have

[robininthelabyrinth]

NMJ plotting and executing XY's, JGY's and JGS's murders (in this order, if possible), and getting away with it.

Jin Guangyao was never going to redeem himself, and it was time Nie Mingjue accepted that.

It wasn’t just the Xue Yang matter, though certainly that rotten business wasn’t any good. It was pathetic, watching Jin Guangyao run after his corrupt father, fawning over him and letting himself be kicked time and time again – Nie Mingjue had offered, both obliquely and outright, to make it clear that that was unacceptable, that no one treated one of his sworn brothers that way and got away with it, but no, Jin Guangyao didn’t dare show his teeth to his father in any way. It was as if he thought that showing the smallest hint of backbone would be enough to make his father reject him forever…

As if Jin Guangshan would ever truly accept him, rather than use him and spit him out when done.

No – anyone who preferred that false sort of comfort over the true and sincere affection of his friends was simply beyond saving.

It was time to accept it.

And if he accepted it, then the next step was clear. Fight evil no matter where, after all.

Nie Mingjue raised his hands to his temples and rubbed them, seeking to ease his persistent headache. He thought to himself that Jin Guangyao’s Song of Clarity grew less and less effective every time and admitted, however wryly, that he might have been more inclined to spare the other man’s life if the application of medicine showed more signs of working. As it didn’t, however, there was no reason to wait – if Nie Mingjue’s condition were truly worsening, then he had to act now, eliminate the problem early, or else he might die before it was resolved and leave the mess to Nie Huaisang to handle.

That was obviously intolerable.

So: to work, then. He’d make his apologies and explanations to Lan Xichen afterwards; if his sworn brother didn’t understand the righteousness of his action, which he probably wouldn’t, then Nie Mingjue would happily pay whatever price was necessary to appease him. With his life, even, if that was what it took – knowing what he did about his ultimate fate, he’d never held that too dear.

Dealing with Xue Yang would be easy enough, at least, and Jin Guangyao, too. Xue Yang was a feral dog, rabid; the Jin sect might have protected him, even as he committed atrocity after atrocity, but they couldn’t protect him from everything. The security of Lanling City and Jinlin Tower was too easily breached to those with deep pockets, which Nie Mingjue certainly had – Xiao Xingchen, honorable but helpless and broke, could do nothing in the face of the man’s atrocities, but Nie Mingjue, with his deep pockets, could, if he so wished, buy an undetected entry at any time. If he were willing to disregard etiquette for efficiency, he could walk straight in and murder Xue Yang directly before anyone figured out what he’d done.

Straightforward, perhaps, even simple – but then he’d always been a straightforward man.

He’d bribe a few gate-guards, make his way in, wait until Xue Yang and Jin Guangyao were alone, kill them both and make it look like they’d gotten into a fight with each other which neither survived. Certainly neither of them had anywhere near the cultivation they’d need to fight him off for even a minute, so that’d be easy enough. And then, since he were there already, he might as well go and get Jin Guangshan while he was at it – that part wasn’t quite as righteous, but in deciding to breach another sect’s sovereignty Nie Mingjue had already decided to yield on righteousness in favor of practicality; if he were going to solve problems in advance for Nie Huaisang, he might as well do it thoroughly.

Jin Guangshan would be easy, too. He talked a big game, but his cultivation was weak – if Nie Mingjue managed to avoid notice and dragged him over to the scene he’d set of Xue Yang and Jin Guangyao’s mutual murder, he could simply expose the other man to Baxia’s full might and the resentful energy would stop his heart. A heart attack upon discovering the end result of his own perpetrated atrocities was probably better than he deserved, as posthumous reputations went, but it’d do the trick.

Once that was done…well, Nie Mingjue might need to commit suicide after to atone for his sins, he hadn’t quite yet settled on that, but it was all right even if he did, he was dying anyway. Leaving the cultivation world to be led by Lan Xichen, as the only competent remaining leader, with the immature Nie Huaisang, easily distracted Jiang Cheng, and baby Jin Ling, was a perfectly acceptable end result.

Nie Mingjue stood up.

“Tell Huaisang I’m going out for a little to clear my head,” he instructed his guards, knowing that they would probably assume he’d decided to night-hunt, fighting evil to soothe his soul. In a way, they’d be right. “I’ll be back soon, and after that, things can be different.”

They would be different.

[no--envies]

In my opinion, one of the reasons JC went crazy after WWX’s death and started venting his own anger and hatred on every demonic cultivator he met, regardless if they were guilty or innocent, is that he couldn’t stand the fact that he hadn’t managed to deal the killing blow to WWX. After all his effort in leading the siege and using the information he had on the Burial Mounds to plan the action and convince everyone else to follow him, he wasn’t even the one who actually killed WWX. WWX died because one of his cultivation techniques backfired and he was torn to pieces by his own ghost army.

I think JC couldn’t accept this. After everything he had done - and thinking he was justified in hating WWX for all the perceived wrongdoings he believed he was a victim of - WWX had managed to surpass him once again. Nobody was able to kill him, not even him.

We know JC’s reaction in the aftermath of the siege because JGY and XY directly comment on it in the extra focused on them:

Xue Yang, “What about his flute? Can you get me Chenqing?”

Jin GuangYao shrugged, “Not Chenqing. Jiang WanYin took it.”

Xue Yang, “Doesn’t he hate Wei WuXian the most? Why would he need Chenqing? Didn’t you also get that sword of Wei WuXian’s? Give him the sword in exchange for the flute. It’s long since Wei WuXian stopped using his sword, while Suibian sealed itself and nobody can pull it out. What’s the use of keeping a fucking piece of decoration?”

Jin GuangYao, “You really ask me to do the impossible, Young Master Xue. Do you think I haven’t tried? How could anything be that simple. That Jiang WanYin has already gone mad. He still thinks Wei WuXian hasn’t died. If Wei WuXian returned, he might not search for his sword, but he’d definitely come for Chenqing. And so, he would definitely not give up Chenqing. A few more words of mine, and he might blow up.”

Xue Yang sniggered, “A mad dog.”

(Chapter 118, ExR translation)

Whatever JC had tried to achieve by leading the siege, he wasn’t able to achieve it. If the only thing he had wanted was to punish WWX for his deeds, he would have been satisfied with his own role in WWX’s death. I don’t think killing WWX was the only thing he wanted, though. He was probably trying to prove something, to himself and everyone else. He wanted to prove that he could surpass WWX for once, and that WWX had been wrong all along in choosing to put himself at risk to help others instead of listening to him. He wanted WWX to admit it was all his fault.

After a while of silence, Jiang Cheng asked, “You’ll stay like this from now on? Got any plans?”

Wei WuXian, “Not at the moment. None of the group dares go down the mountain. People don’t dare do anything anything to me when I go down the mountain either. It’ll be fine as long as I don’t stir up trouble on my own.”

“On your own?” Jiang Cheng sneered, “Wei WuXian, do you believe that even if you don’t stir up trouble on your own, trouble won’t come and find you? It’s often impossible to save someone, but there are more than thousands of ways to harm someone.”

Wei WuXian replied as he ate, “A man with strength can defeat ten with skill. I don’t care if they have thousands of ways. I’ll kill whoever comes.”

Jiang Cheng spoke in a cool voice, “You never listen to any of my opinions. One day, you’ll come to understand that I’m the one who’s right.”

(Chapter 75, ExR translation)

JC had always tried to convince WWX to abandon his path. Since he couldn’t outshine WWX in any way, he wanted to at least prove he was right in the path he had chosen, that choosing to help others at the expense of oneself ultimately wasn’t worth it. But WWX wasn’t swayed in the least. He kept walking resolutely on his single-plank bridge in the dark, regardless of what anyone else thought.

WWX was aware of JC’s mentality: he knew JC wouldn’t willingly put his own reputation at risk to help him protect Wens if he could avoid it. This was one of the main things that divided them since they were teenagers: their values and outlooks were simply too different, it was only a matter of time before their choices made them take completely diverging paths. WWX was fine anyway, he could take care of himself - this mindset could be seen as too overconfident, but he wasn’t completely wrong. He knew he could protect the Wen remnants even without relying on anyone else, since he managed to do it for two years before everything crumbled at Qiongqi Path.

In the end, Jin Zixun ambushed WWX accusing him of something he hadn’t done, and everything spiraled down so quickly he couldn’t do anything to prevent it, until he lost control of his demonic cultivation and killed Jin Zixuan. The sects’ suspicion towards him turned into open hostility and everyone was immediately ready to consider him an actual threat to them all. After the bloodbath of Nightless City, WWX was labeled as the scourge of the cultivation world, an enemy that should be eliminated to guarantee everyone’s peace and safety.

At first glance, one could think JC was right and WWX was wrong. But if this was really what the novel is trying to tell us, why was JC unable to move on for thirteen years, while WWX was immediately ready to start a new life and leave everything in the past after he was brought back? Even when JC managed to capture WWX and confronted him, WWX didn’t have anything to say to him.

The cup was steaming. Before he had taken a single sip, Jiang Cheng suddenly hurled it at the floor. He lifted the corner of his lip slightly and spoke. “You—you don’t have anything to say to me?”

[...]

“I don’t know what to say to you,” Wei Wuxian replied sincerely.

“So you refuse to repent,” Jiang Cheng said in a low voice.

In their past conversations, they had frequently tried to sarcastically undermine each other. Wei Wuxian thus replied without thinking, “Similarly, you haven’t improved a single ounce either.”

Jiang Cheng’s answering smile was brimming with fury. “Fine. Then let’s see which of us truly hasn’t shown an ounce of improvement.”

(Chapter 24, Fanyiyi translation)

I think this exchange is very interesting: WWX and JC are no longer bickering or teasing each other as they so frequently did in the past. What had once been a complicated relationship with genuine affection beneath it all, now retained only the semblance of it. There’s no more warmth, no more anything worth trying to repair. While JC is still adamant about using WWX as a scapegoat to avoid reflecting on his own mistakes, WWX has long since moved on. He doesn’t even feel resentment towards JC, he just wants to live his new life freely.

JC is an interesting foil for WWX, their interactions show how fundamentally incompatible they are and both of their character arcs highlight one of the main themes of the novel: the importance of letting go of all the grudges and negative feelings and remembering the good things, since only then one can truly be free. This is something WWX knows perfectly well:

Wei WuXian propped his arm on Lil’ Apple’s head, spinning Chenqing in his hand, “My mom said you have to remember the things others do for you, not the things you do for others. Only when people don’t hold so much in their hearts would they finally feel free.”

This was one of the only things he remembered about his parents.

(Chapter 113, ExR translation)

[vermillioncrown]

More z!jgy please? I love his dynamics with xy(xy typod into cute :)) lol

the other answer was as comprehensive as it could be without putting too much brainpower into the political intrigue later on.

idk we can divide the z!my/jgy au into these sections: 1) raised in brothel, 2) wandering child w/ new adopted brother 3) qhn-training 4) ssc 5) llj-intrigue -> end

the llj intrigue arc isn't always super cutthroat and slick maneuvers. sometimes, it's really awkward family dinners.

in canon, jgs is reluctant to acknowledge jgy, only does so due to the new lianfang-zun title and contributions in the ssc that the greedy asshole wants to coopt. in this au, z!my wants nothing to do with the jins, if not for his mother's dying wish he would be fucking outta here.

that reluctance to engage means that jgs can tell it's not as easy to string z!jgy along and use him - so the old perv is more active in trying to rope z!jgy into llj.

once a week, there's a big formal dinner where the immediate members of the main jin family attend. z!jgy Does Not Want, at all. but he can't fuck off, not if he wants to remain afloat in this stupid place.

he can, however make this compulsory dinner as uncomfortable for everyone involved as possible.

it's not every week, because that's establishing a pattern and obviously, lacking subtlety is how someone gets assassinated in lanling. so every few dinners, Something happens.

the first one is overt, just to throw the scent off. z!jgy asks for xy to be allowed to attend ("a-yang is all but my brother in blood," he pleads earnestly. "not just filial loyalty, but one must honor other bonds of loyalty as well.") jgs lets it happen since xy is their best chance at reverse-engineering demonic cultivation, but isn't prepared for the uncouthness of xy.

("a-yang is coming to eat, too," z!jgy gently reminds xy, who has been sulking in the library. his adopted brother has become so ... blegh since coming to his blood family's sect. doesn't let him have fun, tells him off for researching interesting things instead of praising his successes, and now is abandoning him for people that don't even want his hard-working older brother.

but the invitation breaks through the foul mood hovering over xy.

"yao-ge, you... you really want me there?"

"of course," and for good measure, "i want you there, and i want you to enjoy yourself. because that's what your gege has been working towards this whole time - for us to have a place to be."

this is the cue for xy to be his most gremlin-y self in front of the snooty and prim jins, and it's something they brought upon themselves.)

another dinner, some jin elder has his affairs revealed. typically, in following jgs's examples, no one would bat an eye at the indiscretion. but one of the paramours revealed was part of a clan that was being 'difficult' to handle, and this elder becomes accused of stirring up conflict for his own gains over llj. he gets sentenced to exile, stripped of everything in position, wealth, and name. his immediate family disgraced.

("yao-ge, where have you been?? i wanted to tell you about this breakthrough i found -"

"ah, haha, sorry, there were some errands outside of lanling that father wished for me to attend to personally..." ahh digging up that faint connection was more talking and gossiping than even he could handle... and whether that accusation was true or not, that doesn't matter.

not when llj is so willing to cannibalize their own.)

bc jzx is not actually a bad dude, he by virtue of being his hapless self manages to avoid a lot of the crossfire that occurs at these family dinners. he's... pretty grateful for his half-brother, this unexpected ally in this exhausting family. one that's willing to joke with him over the appalling behavior of their clan members, not expecting words to come easy to him but still tries to elicit conversation all the same.

and being someone to confide in is nice.

(in z!jgy's most brainsick, exhausted moments, he gets drunk w jzx and they bitch about the weirdness of their interpersonal relationships outside of lanling.

for jzx it's his nearly unmanageable crush on jyl, and the dealing with how to express it.

for z!jgy, it's his former friends/acquaintances nmj&lxc being off around him.

"i thought - i thought you guys were... the something. three zun. guys," jzx slurs.

"there's no manual for s-sworn brotherhood," z!jgy bemoans. "i wish.")

instead of letting mxy reveal himself or however canon introduces him (i think it was jgs picking him specifically to make jgy fall in line "i have plenty of bastards that can replace you" blah blah), z!jgy pockets mxy's existence for his own usage.

and he's gonna drop him at the next family dinner.

[coffintownkids]

Alrighty, I've finished up with ch.39 and before I move on to the next chapter, I just wanted to share a few more lines that made me go feral.

Unlike in the show, the book allows us to 'listen in' on what WWX thinks of everything as he experiences the Empathy memories.

Despite being covered in blood and a mess from head to toe, a lazy, pleased smile appeared on his face, “You’re not going to ask who I am, daozhang? Why I got injured so badly?”

If he were in this person’s position, he would be careful to shy away from topics like this, lest he gave away clues about his identity. Yet he deliberately did the opposite of what was expected and brought it up intentionally.

Hmm...Almost made me wonder if some part of XY wanted to get caught. He'd lost his benefactor after all, with JGY turning on him. He was already close to dying so maybe he just wanted to say 'fuck it,' but who knows? WWX certainly doesn't get why he'd even bring it up.

Later in the chapter, after AQ tries to convince XXC that their new roommate is bad news, XXC had this to say.

No one would willingly stay with us in this coffin house.

You played yourself, daozhang.

Outside the coffin house, Xiǎo Xīngchén said, “Your injury hasn’t healed. Could it be that you’ve been ignoring what I said and walking around all this time?”

Xuē Yáng said, “The more I move, the faster I’ll get better. Not to mention that I didn’t break both of my legs. I’m used to being injured this much and being beaten this badly.”

Xiǎo Xīngchén didn’t know how he should take that, if he should be comforting him or treat it as a joke. He paused for a moment, saying, “Oh…”

That's a big yikes, buddy.

On a lighter note, there is this part.

Xuē Yáng was rather eloquent and quite witty, with his humor being having a bit of street cheekiness to it. Xiǎo Xīngchén must have seldom come in contact with people like him before, as he was unable to handle his jokes for more than a few sentences before he started laughing.

So I'll explain this part a little. XY's sense of humor is written as 点放肆的市井气. 放肆 is something that means sort of unbridled or unfiltered. Kind of impertinent or irreverent. 市井气 more literally means like "having a marketplace atmosphere." More colloquially, it can mean to have a sort of 'urbanity' but I've always found that to be a really pretentious word lol. Basically, I think a good way to sum it up is think of someone like the Artful Dodger from Oliver Twist. He's got this sort of street smart vibe to him. And XXC is Oliver in this case and is very taken in by someone that is so different from anyone else he knows.

Xuē Yáng had endured serious injuries and had nearly lost his life. There was also the score Xiǎo Xīngchén had to settle with him that dated back years. It could be said that things were utterly irreconcilable between the two. Nowadays, he thought he couldn’t wait to make Xiǎo Xīngchén bleed to death from all seven orifices. On the surface, however, he could still joke around with him. If it was actually Wèi Wúxiàn hiding beneath the window, the fact of the matter was that he would have killed Xuē Yáng without a second thought. He’d do anything to avoid the trouble that was coming. There was nothing he could do, as this was not his body and Ā-Qìng was also powerless.

Approximately one month later, Xuē Yáng’s wounds were nearly healed due to Xiǎo Xīngchén painstakingly nursing him back to health. Aside from walking with a bit of a limp, there were no other major issues. Yet he never brought up the matter of him leaving. He was still crammed into the coffin house with the other two, who had no idea what he was planning.

Fellas, is it gay to get nursed by your arch nemesis and decide to live in domestic bliss without saying a word about it?

So the specific term used in XY's violent daydream is qīqiào, which refers to the mouth, both eyes, both nostrils, and both ears. It comes up a lot in the genre, but English sure lacks a term for it...Also, XY also played himself. He'll get around to committing these terrible acts of violence to XXC's person any day now. Also, love seeing WWX still having his own darker tendencies.

It's also fascinating that WWX, who is currently living in MXY's body, once again loses his physical agency again by being in AQ's body. That in itself probably deserves its own post.

One day, Xiǎo Xīngchén looked after Ā-Qìng and sent her to bed, then went leave a Night Hunt. Xuē Yáng’s voice suddenly called out, “Daozhang, how about you bring me with you tonight?”

His throat should have been healed well before now, yet he was deliberately continuing to not use his actual voice while successfully mimicking the other voice. Xiǎo Xīngchén smiled, “That definitely wouldn’t work. I’ll start laughing the moment you open your mouth and I won’t keep my sword steady.”

Xuē Yáng pitifully said, “Then I won’t talk. I’ll carry your sword on my back and act as your support. Don’t give me the cold shoulder.”

He was accustomed to having to act like a spoiled child and talking to people older than him as if he were their little brother. And Xiǎo Xīngchén seemed to have had shīmèi and shīdì when he was part of Bàoshān-sànrén’s sect and was naturally seeing him as his junior. Plus he knew he was a fellow cultivator, so he gladly agreed.

HAHAHA, XY acting like a spoiled brat sends me to another plane of existence. You just know he picked up the habit from whining at JGY. Also XXC seeing XY as his shīdì in a way was not something I remembered at all.

This post got a bit away from me, so I'll end things here. Onward to chapter 40!

[lhaewiel]

JC, JGY & LWJ for the character ask?

Hello Anon!

Let's see.

Jiang Cheng

favorite thing about them: the fact that even if he broke, he found enough strength to raise his head again and become who he is. That requires a lot of strength and I admire his headstrong attitude

least favorite thing about them: JC I love you, but you need to learn how tocommunicate your feelings in other ways than anger. That would truly improve a LOT of things.

favorite line: I'd have to rewatch the drama, but I don't really have a favourite line.

brOTP: JC/WWX

OTP: SangCheng, Xicheng, XiSangCheng - but I am a multishipper

nOTP: IDK, I still have to find a pairing that will make me go ew.

random headcanon: feel free to choose

unpopular opinion: he deserves a way less harsh treatment and more understanding, JC haters can s*ck my metaphorical d*ck.

song i associate with them: Let's see... Lazzaro by Subsonica, To every heartache by Lullacry. Man more, but these songs unhinge me

favorite picture of them: this one. it is just so soft and so asdfghjkl

nJin Guangyao

favorite thing about them: the patience he has is unnatural, I WISH I had his patience and calm. He can pull on a perfect poker face, just slightlypulling it off when erge or even dage are around.

least favorite thing about them: he thinks too much about every possible outcome, thus resulting in a Power Rangers villain - yes, if he had just fled at Guanyin temple without involving anyone, he'd be in Dongyin way with his one (1) henchman very far from any drama, but he NEEDED to be a dramatic little shit and that was his biggest mistake. Because JGY is a dramatic little shit when he wants to appear oh-so-grand

favorite line: :) *dimples* - jk, I would need to rewatch properly the series

brOTP: you know, JGY/SS is a good brotp, but in my good AU that lives in my head JGY and JZX are bros

OTP: XiYao, 3Zun, NieYao

nOTP: I don't dig a lot the dynamics of JGY/XY. I mean, it would be hilarious, but not my cup of tea.

random headcanon: he truly fell in love with LXC, he fell for him like a ripe pear falls from the tree. And that is why he never wanted to hurt LXC

unpopular opinion: he should have known better where to place his loyalties. A lot of bloodshed could have been avoided.

song i associate with them: emperor's new clothes by Panic! At the Disco

favorite picture of them: unhiged_dimples.png

Lan Wangji

favorite thing about them: he is such a dedicated man, who tries to understand the whole black and white vs grey morality. He tries his best to make sense of crazy situations.

least favorite thing about them: the fact that if it is not Brother or Wei Ying he is talking to, he is a complete asshat to everyone else. Pls, my boy, try to understand that you will NOT have always Brother and his Political Power to excuse your behaviours.

favorite line: the "you are not qualified" sticked with me for its pettiness

brOTP: LXC/LWJ, you know what, I'd love to see more of LWJ/NHS, considering that the respective big brothers are best friends I would love to see more interactions

OTP: WangXian

nOTP: I have not really considered a lot of ships, the power of WangXian is too strong

random headcanon: whilst mourning in seclusion he composed so many requiem songs that it made both brother and uncle worry.

unpopular opinion: IDK if it an unpopular opinion, but I think that composing WangXian.mp3 was a highly romantic gesture

song i associate with them: in your likeness by woodkid

favorite picture of them: LOOK AT THIS LOVESTRUCK IDIOT, NO THOUGHTS HEAD EMPTY, ONLY WEI YING.

[xiyao-feels]

A Comparison of the Stairs Dialogue in CQL vs MDZS, Pt 1

(Pt 2)

A few introductory notes:

-This wasn't intended to be a big project post; I was just doing the comparison because I thought it was interesting. As I went I thought other people would probably find it interesting too, and it would be worth having it all written down, so I did turn it into a post after all. But I'm not really arguing any central point or anything; I'm really just comparing the dialogue and writing down my thoughts as I go.

-This also of course means my usual pro-JGY and consequently very annoyed at NMJ biases are on display. As ever, if this will upset you, please don't read!!

-This is a comparison of the text of the dialogue, not everything about their interaction; I don't necessarily note it if e.g. the acting doesn't match the dialogue tags in MDZS, or what have you.

-To do a proper comparison, you really need to compare the Chinese text, not the English translation; this is what I'm doing, though of course I've included the English from the Youtube subs, for CQL, and from the Exiled Rebels translation for MDZS. (For the Youtube subs I recorded "Yao" as A-Yao and used da-ge instead of Big brother when 大哥 was used and er-ge when 二哥 was used, just because this is my habit when copying down the dialogue.)

-Speaking of which: for MDZS, I just copied from the text, but for the CQL dialogue both English and Chinese I copied down the subs. I don't actually speak Chinese, but fortunately CQL on Youtube has the Chinese subs as well; my reading level in Chinese is also completely terrible, but I can often recognize most or many of the characters, and what I can't I can find by identifying radicals or drawing it in a handwriting recognition thing, etc. I did my best to be careful and thorough, and I also checked it against the Chinese subs I downloaded from Netflix, but there may still be some errors, fair warning. This also means that, unlike the Chinese from MDZS, the CQL Chinese dialogue isn't punctuated beyond spacing it out as it appeared on the screen; this is because the Chinese subs aren't punctuated, and I am certainly not going to make that judgement myself.

-The characters that differ in a given line between the MDZS and CQL versions are bolded, to help make the difference visually clear.

With that aside, the comparison is below the cut.

CQL  

LXC: 阿瑶 大哥他心性不比从前 你千万不要再惹怒他了 他最近深受刀灵侵扰之苦 若不是你日日给他弹清心音的话 恐怕他 A-Yao. Da-ge's temperament is getting worse. Don't ever displease him again. He's been subject to the harassment of his blade lately. If you hadn't been playing Cleansing Music for him everyday, I'm afraid he'd be…  

MDZS  

LXC: 只是一时气愤，口不择言罢了。大哥现在心性不比从前， 你千万不要再惹怒他了。他最近深受刀灵侵扰之苦， 怀桑又和他争吵置气，到今天还没和好。 His anger was simply too great for him to have thought before speaking. Brother’s temper cannot compare to how it was in the past. You must not provoke him again. These past few days, he has been deeply troubled by the saber spirit, and HuaiSang has argued with him again. They still have not made up yet, even today.

I'm comparing the CQL dialogue to the equivalent dialogue in MDZS, but of course in MDZS this exchange isn't before the stairs in ch 49; rather it's part of a broader conversation NMJ hears before he bursts in to try and kill JGY on the spot, because he doesn't like how JGY is talking to LXC about him, in ch 50. (Note, incidentally, how obviously impossible this renders the task of not displeasing da-ge, even aside from his not being satisfied with anything less than Xue Yang's head, as JGY and LXC were having a private conversation at the time.) The mention of NMJ and NHS' falling out is removed, replaced with the information that JGY has been playing to MMJ "every day"; the reference to NMJ calling JGY son of a whore is of course removed, since it hasn't happened yet. One effect of this relocation is on our understanding of LXC's injunction not to "displease him again/provoke him again" (再惹怒他 in both). In MDZS, this seems to refer to the stairs incident where JGY talked back (as the text notes, unusually); here perhaps it might be read as suggesting that JGY somehow has a habit of avoidably displeasing NMJ, which I think is absurd.

However, that's not the only possible interpretation. Although CQL doesn't quite give us the scene mentioned in chapter 30, where NMJ shows up and lectures JGS into announcing XY would be executed (…and heaps abuse on JGY when he tries to intervene, terrifying JGY sufficiently that he hides behind LXC—observe that in the sentence immediately prior to this we are also told that NMJ had unsheathed his sabre), in episode 35 we are told that all the clans wanted to punish XY except for JGS, and given a brief flashback to JGS yelling. Therefore, I think, it's not unreasonable to assume that something like the scene described in ch 30 occurred in CQL. Perhaps LXC is referring to this, although of course JGY would still be held between the fatal opposition of NMJ's and his father's wishes.

It's also relevant of course that in removing the surrounding context, CQL removes the context of the conversation of JGY expressing his pain about how NMJ treats him, and LXC replying, and rather turns it into an apparently unprompted expression of concern on LXC's part.

CQL  

NMJ: 金光瑶 Jin Guangyao!   

MDZS  

-

It's worth noting, I think, that in MDZS NMJ never refers to JGY as "Jin Guangyao" throughout the entire stairs encounter. 

CQL  

LXC: 大哥 怎么了 Da-ge, what's wrong?   

MDZS  

LXC: 大哥 Da-ge?

CQL  

NMJ: 你别动 你出来 (to LXC) Don't move. (to JGY) Come out. 

MDZS  

NMJ: 你别动 你出来 (to LXC) Don't move. (To JGY) Come out.  

CQL  

JGY: 二哥 劳烦你帮我再过一眼 百花宴贵宾的名单 我先去和大哥说点私事 回头再请你讲解 Er-ge, please check the list of guests of the Floral Banquet for me. I need to talk some private affairs with da-ge. I'll explain it to you later.  

MDZS  

JGY: 二哥劳烦你再帮我理一理这条，我先去和大哥说点私事，回头再请你讲解 Brother, could you please help me go through this one? I have some private matters to discuss with our eldest brother. I’ll have to ask for your explanation at a later time. 

Interestingly the exact same sentence in the Chinese, 回头再请你讲解, is translated in CQL as JGY's promise to explain later—where the implication seems to be he'll explain about what he's discussing with NMJ, perhaps?—and in MDZS as JGY's intention to ask /LXC/ to explain (the work he's going over in JGY's absence) later. In MDZS, of course, they're working on the watchtowers…while in CQL host with the most LXC is /helping JGY put his banquet guest lists together/, omg. I wish they'd kept more about the watchtowers but I admit I enjoy this as well. They plan parties together!

In both CQL and MDZS NMJ tries to hit JGY after they are outside and before further words are exchanged.

CQL  

JGY: 大哥 何必如此 有话好说 Da-ge. Why act like this? We can talk nicely, can't we?   

MDZS  

JGY: 大哥，何必如此，有话好说。 Brother, why the rage? Let’s calm down. 

CQL  

NMJ: 薛洋呢 Where is Xue Yang?   

MDZS  

NMJ: 薛洋呢 Where's Xue Yang? 

CQL  

JGY: 他已被关入地牢 终身不释 He's been shut up in the dungeon, for life time.   

MDZS  

JGY: 他已被关入地牢，终身不释…… He’s already been locked inside the dungeon, imprisoned for life… 

CQL  

NMJ: 我当年在不净世是怎么跟你说的 我要他血债血偿 你却给他来个终身不释 What did I tell you in the Yet Clean Realm at that time? I want him to pay his killing debts. You now give him life imprisonment.   

MDZS  

NMJ: 当初你在我面前是怎么说的 (JGY is silent) 我要他血债血偿，你却给他个终身不释？ What did you say to me back then? (JGY is silent) I wanted him to pay blood with blood, yet you have him imprisoned for life? 

"What did you say to me back then" is interesting; we're not actually given a specific time or a specific thing said, which means we must speculate. An obvious candidate for 'back then' would be the ch 30 scene previously mentioned, when NMJ convinces the Jin to announce that they'll execute XY. Yet the Jin giving in on executing XY seems to come /after/ JGY is sufficiently frightened by NMJ that he hides behind LXC, "not daring to say anything else." NMJ is perhaps conflating JGY with JGY's father, or perhaps assigning to JGY an authority he does not in fact possess, as though JGY and not JGS was the person who made decisions for the Jin.

In CQL of course NMJ takes the position that /Jin Guangyao/ owes him obedience because Meng Yao used to be NMJ's servant—not even just that, but that Jin Guangyao must display obedience to orders NMJ gave several years ago, when JGY was MY. This is absurd and insulting, and even before NMJ actually calls him Meng Yao it demonstrates that NMJ does not actually recognize JGY's legitimacy /as/ Jin Guangyao. Honestly, I don't have the words.

CQL  

JGY: 只要他受到惩罚 无法再犯 终身不释和血债血偿也并无 As long as he's punished, and can't recommit crimes, I can't see the difference between life imprisonment and death sentence.    

MDZS  

JGY: 只要他受到惩罚，无法再犯，终身不释与血债血偿也并无…… As long as he receives his punishment and can’t offend again, perhaps paying blood with blood and being imprisoned for life is… 

CQL  

NMJ: 我问你 当年在不净世 究竟是谁放走了薛洋 是我的总领 还是你 Tell me. When we were at Yet Clean Realm, who on earth released Xue Yang? It was my captain, or you?   

MDZS  

NMJ: 你举荐的好客卿，做出的好事情！事到如今你还敢袒护他！ The good things that the good guest cultivator whom you recommended has done! Things are already like this and you still dare defend him! 

Imho, this gets to a central fault in the CQL XY storyline—why the heck is NMJ trying to have XY killed for the Chang killings, instead of for collaborating with the Wen and/or for killing a bunch of his men??????

I tend to put that aside because it doesn't… actually… make any sense at all, especially since CQL NMJ is quite clearly still preoccupied with XY's old crimes.

CQL  

JGY: 我没有 我为什么要放走他 不过当初是当初 现在常萍已经翻供 没有任何明确证据证明 薛洋屠杀了常氏五十人 而我父亲又一定要留下这个人 It wasn't me. Why should I let him go? But the past is in the past, Chang Ping had withdrawn his confession. No certain evidence can prove that Xue Yang had massacred 50 people of Chang clan. And my father insists on keeping him alive.   

MDZS  

JGY: 我没有袒护他，栎阳常氏那件事我也很震惊，我怎会料到薛洋会杀了人全家五十多口人？可我父亲一定要留着这个人…… I didn’t defend him. I was also shocked by the case of the Changyang Yue Sect. How could I have known that Xue Yang would kill more than fifty people? But my father was set on keeping him… 

So—I'm sorry, that in CQL Chang Ping has already withdrawn his testimony makes this completely absurd. In MDZS, that doesn't happen until /after/ NMJ's death, after the Jin have been hounding him! In CQL, the situation appears to be that they have officially condemned him to the dungeons for life /purely based on NMJ's pressure/, with no actual clear evidence at all—and note that unlike in MDZS, where the Chang killings happened like a month beforehand and XXC presents the evidence that it was XY to the assembled clans, in CQL the killings happened /several years ago before a war/ and Songxiao didn't present any evidence it was XY to anyone else at the time that we saw. I mean, they didn't need to because at the time he confessed when challenged,* but it's not at all clear to me what if any evidence is left! And—in this situation where the one surviving victim is publically saying it wasn't XY, and they're /still officially locking him up for life on NMJ's say-so/—NMJ thinks that JGY should nevertheless go and execute XY.

*To an audience that if I am not misremembering included JC, who was alive and a sect leader independent from NMJ and could presumably have been asked to testify at the trial. This doesn't seem to ever be mentioned, however. Again, the CQL XY subplot doesn't make a huge amount of sense.

I can only guess that they moved up the Chang Ping revokes his testimony timeline to emphasize Jin power? But to me it has almost the opposite effect, since if they're still locking XY up on NMJ's say-so it rather suggests /NMJ's/ power; and more to the point it makes NMJ's already frankly unreasonable demand completely and ludicrously absurd.

CQL  

NMJ: 为什么 他身上还有一块阴铁你不知道吗 你把他重新招揽回来 究竟是为了什么你自己心里清楚 Why? Don't you know he's got a shard of Yin Iron on him? You're trying to reclaim him now. I can clearly see what you have in mind.   

MDZS  

NMJ: 震惊？招揽他的是谁？举荐他的是谁？重用他的是谁？少拿你父亲当幌子，薛洋在干什么，你会不知道吗？！ Shocked? Who was the one that invited him? Who was the one that recommended him? Who was the one that regarded him highly? Don’t use your father as excuse. How could you not have known what Xue Yang was doing?! 

English of course doesn't distinguish between plural and singular second-person, but I think it's worth noting that NMJ is using singular here, 你, and not plural. This is true in both CQL and MDZS. In MDZS, I think the problem is that, although he is in fact referring to things JGY individually did, he refuses to accept the truth of JGY's position: that whatever JGY knew or did not know, he can't actually afford to kill XY if that's not what JGS wants. In CQL, by contrast, the problem is that he's locating the desire to obtain the Yin Iron specifically in JGY, despite JGS'…well, JGS' entire everything.

CQL  

JGY: 大哥 真的是我父亲的命令 我无法拒绝 你现在要我处置薛洋 我该怎么去跟他交代 Da-ge, this is really my father's order. I couldn't deny. If you want me to execute Xue Yang now, in which way can I report this to him?    

MDZS  

JGY: 大哥，真的是我父亲的命令。我没法拒绝。你现在要我处置薛洋，你让我怎么跟他交代 Brother, it really was my father’s orders. I couldn’t refuse. Now, if you want me to take care of Xue Yang, what would I say to him? 

The use of 你 vs the more formal 您 throughout this exchange is interesting. In their exchange before JGY goes outside with NMJ, he uses 你 for LXC; here, he uses 你 for NMJ, but you can see throughout the exchange he seems to use both. It would probably be very interesting to go through the text and observe which JGY uses, to whom, and when.

CQL  

-  

MDZS  

NMJ: 不必废话，提薛洋头来见。 There’s no need for explanations. Come back to me with Xue Yang’s head in your hand. 

CQL  

—  

MDZS  

JGY "wanted to speak"

I think the upshot of these exchanges is much the same in CQL and in MDZS, despite its shortening in CQL: NMJ utterly rejects the validity of JGY's desire to give NMJ a /reason/ for going against JGS' explicit wishes, the explicit wishes, I remind you, of a man he has a moral duty to obey as his clan head and father. Truly, we can only imagine how NMJ would react to JGY killing someone against the wishes of the leader of the clan he served because he deserves it in JGY's own moral judgement… Except of course we don't have to imagine it, because it occurs in both CQL and MDZS, albeit differently. It's not that NMJ recognizes as a general principle that subordinates should be allowed to kill people against their leader's wishes if that subordinate judges their victim deserves it; it's simply that he believes in the primacy of his own, obviously righteous judgement. (And in CQL, again, there isn't any actual definite evidence, and Chang Ping has retracted his testimony.)

I think the main things the slightly more extended MDZS version has, not present in CQL, is, first, the explicit visual of XY's head, and second, that NMJ's subsequent response isn't a response to JGY's actual speech; JGY was about to speak in reply, and NMJ responds in irritation to what he thinks JGY is going to say—responds, indeed, by calling him 'Meng Yao'.

(Next)

[angstymdzsthoughts]

wow im loving this new ask layout.

it was post canon and wwx has been living with his husband and son in cr for a couple years now. jc is still somewhat reluctant to talk to him but he understands. jl comes by to nighthunt with his friends regularly. one unlucky day wwx had a mishap with resentful energy during a nighthunt accident and lsz died in the process.

everyone was heartbroken but wangxian were absolutely destroyed. they stayed in seclusion for months. wwx couldnt stand the guilt and had no face to see his son's friends and the other lans. even when lwj finally had to come out for sect duties wwx chose to stay in seclusion. he abandoned his regular cultivation and swore off demonic cultivation forever. in an effort to cheer up his husband, lwj persuaded him to go on a trip to worship the gods to pray for sizhui's death anniversary.

they came across a small temple, old and rickety and overgrown, and out of kindness they cleaned up and left a small offering. wwx just wanted his family back. lwj wanted a chance to start all over again. it suddenly stormed heavily that evening, so they had to take shelter in the temple for the night, taking caution to ask for permission from the resident god.

when they woke up, they were at the cloud recesses. lwj woke up in his old bedroom in a body that felt too small. wwx woke up startled in a guest bedroom in cr with jyl sitting by his bed.

"a-ying? did you have a nightmare?" wwx choked back a sob and just hugged his shijie for comfort. only then did he notice that he felt too small, and too soft. he looked down at his hands, then at his body. he was somehow a girl.

then jyl's presence in his room would make more sense. girls and boys dorms are separated in the cr. wangxian woke up as an alternate version of themselves with their original memories as well as the memories of their new body. lwj was still lan er gongzi. but in this body, she was just wei ying, a senior disciple of yunmeng jiang.

wangxian met each other again in class and wy took caution to not vex lqr too bad this time, lest he disapprove of their inevitably impending union. jc eyed lwj furiously when he approached wy after class to talk privately. it seemed that the two of them were the only ones reborn.

the first thing lwj did after that was ask his uncle to send a formal betrothal request to ymj for wy's hand. which to lqr was weird, but lz wouldnt budge. he thought lxc could still marry a more proper wife, so its fine.

they spent the rest of the year courting, lwj was in such a rush to marry wy. wy wasnt /actually/ jyl's little sister so it was no issue if she married first. meanwhile, jyl's betrothal was broken. this time by her own brother who punched jzx so hard he broke his nose. wangxian got married a year after they finished studying in gusu.

everyone was overjoyed when wy got pregnant. even mdm yu was happy for her. when their son was born, lwj recognized his soul to be their a-yuan, and wy cried her lungs out in joy. their little son had his old nose, lwj's nose, but now the rest of him look like them too. his hair was midnight black like lz's but with wy's playful curls. he had wy's ears and little constellation of moles on his skin. he even had lz's light eyes.

lqr wouldnt let go of his grandnephew that lan huan had to bargain with his uncle to be able to hold his nephew. after a-yuan could walk, they went to visit lotus pier. the toddler /adored/ jiang cheng, laughing and squealing loudly in his arms. he loved getting head pats by jyl and kept demanding attention from mdm yu by pulling on her skirt or hugging her leg and crawling into her lap. he wasnt so fond of jfm, however, only looking away in disinterest or reaching out his hands to his parents. for once jfm felt left out in his family.

wangxian wracked their brain trying to stop the sunshot campaign from happening, but wrh's power ran deeper than they thought and they could only postpone it, not prevent it completely. the wens attacked lotus pier first, burning it to the ground and killing jc's parents. the jiang siblings ran to cr, but it only served to bring the wen dogs sniffing at cr's door.

wy is talented in cultivation, but having sworn off resentful energy and having to protect the sect's children as well as her own, she could only do so much while her husband was taken to the nightless city.

lwj eventually managed to escape and jc with the help from qinghe nie managed to gather the survivors of his sect. they all went to war and the sun was finally shot. lwj came home to wy just in time to tell him they were expecting a daughter.

this time there was no yin hufu for jgs to fight over, just the remnants of the wen sect. knowing llj would abuse the war prisoners, lwj spoke up and ppl listened when he proposed the wen remnants go to qinghe for trials. civilians are left to themselves while criminals are sent to labor. the resouces belonging to the wen sect was distributed to other sects both big and small depending on how much casualty they suffered under wrh.

jzx fell in love with jyl during the war and got married as soon as it was over. jin ling was born not too long after a-yuan's little sister lan yuyan. together jyl and jzx forced llj to give out resources for jc to rebuild his sect.

3zun still became sworn brothers and wangxian didnt exactly know when jgy got married, so he still married qin su. jgs had jgy kill nmj, and when jgy wont agree to spy on gusulan he had another one sent. lwj sent nmj a missive not to trust jgy with calming and avoided his death.

it took a couple years, but when jgs thought he was ready he even imprisoned jzx and his family in koi tower, depriving them of any communications and arrested disciples that are loyal to jzx.

llj was gearing up to war once again, this time against everyone else. jgs had, unbeknowst of everyone, gotten the note on core melting hand technique and had xue yang learn it.

wangxian reached out to nhs, trying to find a way to kill jgs. realizing that jgs was fully prepared to kill lxc, jgy turned his sights over to jzx, admitting his faults and teaming up to kill jgs. jgs had jzxun attack qinghe, but it was easily defended against. xue yang led the troop against cloud recesses.

xy aimed at the main lan family and injured a-yuan. in a desperate attempt to save his family, lwj jumped out and xy destroyed his golden core. meanwhile, he still sent spiritual energy towards saving his son. distracted by his victim, wy managed to cut xy's head off. back in llj, jgy along with jzxuan and jc attacked jgs's forces in koi tower. jc beheaded jgs and with that this new war was over.

thanks to lwj, lan yuan was fine and his injury was stabilized. however the destruction of lwj's golden core not only take away his cultivation but also mangled his meridians. wy could do nothing but weep with her daughter in her lap while lxc and lqr played healing for her husband.

lwj died in his sleep that night, finally exhaling his last painful breath while wy fell asleep from crying. his funeral along with those fallen during the attack was held a few days after. wy didnt look like herself in the mourning clothes she wore along with the children.

wy was inconsolable and kept apologizing the the children. especially a-yuan. fate had been so cruel on him that he couldnt grown up with two parents twice over. it seemed that in this life too he would be named sizhui. wy refused to move and kept sigil by lwj's coffin.

suddenly su minshan came out of nowhere and started yelling at her. calling her a jinx and an unlucky bitch that shouldve prevented her husband from dying. lqr yelled at him to leave. two and a half year old lan yuyan tried to shoo him away, punching at his knees. but the adult man just kicked the little girl away. jc couldnt stay silent anymore and wrapped zidian around sms's neck and pulled, making sure his neck broke when hitting the floor.

wy didnt say anything. she just took her crying daughter and left. after making sure lan yuyan is alright, wy locked herself in her room for 3 weeks. she didnt even open the door when her kids come knocking and begging.

it broke lxc's heart to see once again two children waiting on their mother's door. he asked jyl for help in persuading wy to come out. when they came in, wy looked like a ghost still in her white mourning robes with a whole head of white hair and her eyes so weary from weeping. she fainted soon after opening the door.

they checked on her only to find out she was 2 months pregnant. the tears start anew for wy and jyl asked lxc to take wy back to lotus pier so she can recuperate with her sworn siblings. lxc and lqr reluctantly agreed and wy came with jyl and jc back to lotus pier. jzxuan became the new sect leader and severely punished jgy along with his father's men while his wife and son stayed in yunmeng.

wy made a promise with lwj once to never let their children be orphans like they were. even if only for her kids, wy tried her best to get better. she stood out in her white mourning robes in lotus pier. wy was constantly surrounded by kids, all wanting her attention. she ate jyl food with the kids and watched jc teach her kids and jin ling how to swim. after a couple months, her dark hair came back and she got healthier. her second son lan shun was born in the middle of the hot yunmeng summer in lotus pier.

after lan shun turned 1, they came back to cloud recesses. wy had some time to accept her loss, but kept thinking abt lwj. after hearing from other lan disciples, lan yuan asked granduncle to teach him inquiry. the first time lwj responded to a-yuan's guqin strings, wy broke down on her knees. wy has been wearing lwj's headband on her forearm, so lwj attached parts of his soul in it. some of it went to bichen, which lan yuan inherited. some went to lan yuyan who inherited wangji guqin. lan shun never knew his father so he didnt want anything belonging to lwj.

for now, wy had to be content with inquires to lwj. for now they had to be content with waiting for each other on the other side.

.

[songofclarity]

For a character who was the catalyst for all the events of the novel WRH got way too little attention and show time in the novel heck we don't even get a face off between him and the protagonists. To me if JGS was a pig in a golden pigsty, JGY a sneaky fox, and XY a rabid dog, then WRH was a mighty dragon. He had all the makings of an amazing villain but that potential was wasted and imo that is one of mdzs' greatest flaws

Mighty dragon Wen RuoHan is so true, Anon!

The spoiled pig in the golden pigsty came out on top after the Sunshot Campaign. He had all the money, a beautiful family, and an intact sect, and yet he wanted all the power left in Wen RuoHan’s wake--as if the world hadn’t fought for three years to get rid of the original.

The treacherous snake who cuddled up to others to steal their warmth and yet bit to kill at the first sign of movement. He acted like that warmth was his due and he had no choice but to bite. Surely the actions of others would either do him harm or leave him cold! He tricked Wen RuoHan into believing their scales meant they were similar, but he only ever dreamed of being a pig in that golden pigsty. (There is a connotation of mischief and charm with “sneaky fox” that does not fit Jin GuangYao in my mind lol)

The rabid dog who was used to being beaten and yet would accept a warm bed and a dish of food from any kind hand. He won’t bite the hand that feeds him but he will absolutely maul anyone who threatens that warm bed and new home he found--or anyone who looks like an easy target for some fun and games.

And then there is the mighty dragon!

I've been trying to respond to this ask for a few days because I agree and yet I also kind of disagree on that last point. I find it hard to say Wen RuoHan’s potential was wasted because it’s his potential to do harm that kept the Sunshot Campaign alive but also his lesser-discussed potential to be influenced towards doing good that could have prevented a lot of grief. Although he didn’t get a lot of page time, his importance to the story is practically on par with Wei WuXian himself and he continues to exist as a specter of evil even after he is dead.

This quote comes to mind during empathy:

On Koi Tower, people came and went. Before Nie MingJue's high viewpoint, the crowd parted again and again, with both sides nodding at him in respect, calling him "ChiFeng-Zun." Wei WuXian thought, Such a show of extravagance is going to reach even the heavens. All these people both fear and respect Nie MingJue. There's quite a few people who fear me, though not a lot who respect me. (Ch. 49 ERS)

One of the major conflicts in MDZS is based on one question: who gets to be the next Wen RuoHan after the Sunshot Campaign? And the sane answer is that it should be nobody. The Sects are independent entities who should take care of themselves and work in cooperation without controlling each other. The Wen Sect was never actually in charge of the other sects so it’s quite twisted for the Chief Cultivator position to be created in the wake of Wen RuoHan’s death. Wen RuoHan is still a catalyst for events even after he is murdered!

More so, when people were saying they hoped Wen Qing would one day take over as Sect Leader Wen because she had a normal way of doing things, it’s because Wen RuoHan calling the former Sect Leader Nie over to passive-aggressively slap his saber a few times and tell him it is a good saber is just bizarre. Of course Wen Qing’s ways of doing things are normal!

Compare Wen Qing being angry:

"If you really are grateful then put in some effort! What [the] hell kind of medicine did you just make? Brew it again!" (Ch. 60 ERS)

To Wen RuoHan:

And, thus, Wen RuoHan wasn't pleased anymore...

Wen RuoHan laughed after he heard. “Are you sure about that? Well, I want to see.” (Ch. 49, ERS)

But back to the scene at Koi Tower, it’s funny that the one closest to becoming Wen RuoHan is quite possibly Nie MingJue, the one now respected and feared, the one who fought the most against Jin GuangShan creating the Chief Cultivator seat. Why did Jin GuangShan create the Chief Cultivator seat? Because no one was ever going to respect him or to listen to him, much less respect him and fear his power to let him do whatever he pleased. But even then, Nie MingJue had to travel to Koi Tower to point Baxia while he made his demands. Jin GuangShan and Jin GuangYao had to murder and lie and scheme to get what they wanted. Wei WuXian had to figuratively set himself on fire. Wen RuoHan simply had to call his target of his ire over and he came, and then he let fate run its course.

Wei WuXian, Nie MingJue, Jin GuangShan, Jin GuangYao--none of them ever held even a fraction of the power wielded by Wen RuoHan. A power shown when Lan XiChen and a bunch of other juniors looked at the waterborne abyss and didn’t even dare to speak the name of the Qishan Wen aloud. Our spoiled pig and even rabid dog look to demonic cultivation to gain that fear element since they lack the wow factors of a powerful cultivator. Wei WuXian and Nie MingJue end up dead because a spoiled pig and a treacherous snake want their golden pigsty to go uncontested.

So it’s hard to speak of Wen RuoHan not meeting his potential when all the Sects left in his wake never achieve a fraction of what Wen RuoHan had. And even then, at no point in the story does Wen RuoHan ever wake up in the morning and pick murder, although the same cannot be said for the likes of Wen Chao, Jin GuangYao, Xue Yang, and even Wei WuXian.

So what I’m getting at here is that despite Wen RuoHan’s lack of appearances, we learn a lot about him through other characters trying to either work for or against him or emulate him. And he does face off against one of our protagonists: Nie MingJue! Although that we don’t get to see their first fight in Yangquan when Nie MingJue was fresh is truly frustrating!

Because even though we do get a Wen RuoHan face-off with a protagonist, it’s his assassination that gets all the attention--and it’s because Nie MingJue avoids talking about traumatic experiences and Jin GuangYao already got what he wanted from that event. The mural at Koi Tower immortalizing the assassination of Wen RuoHan is a snapshot of the heroic Jin GuangYao taking out the Big Bad in a glorious moment. It was also, however, a huge red flag that Jin GuangYao is willing to murder someone who gave him respect, protection, and empowerment so long as he could use their blood to pave his road ahead.

I do have to wonder on the degree of Wen RuoHan’s villainy when he didn’t even bother to take the life of his son’s killer and he passed on the opportunity to torture him, too. But no one in the story talks about Wen RuoHan as a person. They talk about Sect Leader Wen as a symbol, and he becomes a symbol of evil.

Everyone becomes so focused on Wen RuoHan as the Big Bad that for all the crimes the spoiled pig and the treacherous snake perpetrate, the majority of the cultivation world responds with, “If this [evil act and/or abuse of power] was done by the Wen Sect, we would be really concerned. Since the people doing it are not-Wens, it can’t be evil and thus we can allow it to happen.”

And thus the Jin get away with doing a lot of evil. Lan XiChen can look at Jin GuangYao and say, “he has his reasons,” because Lan XiChen has been victimized by the Wens and Jin GuangYao murdered Wen RuoHan so surely there is a divide there between good and evil, right and wrong. This is a very convenient way for letting the Jin get away with doing a lot of bad things! Wei WuXian rescuing the Wen Remants, meanwhile, places him conveniently within the Wen-Sect-Is-Bad camp, and we all know how that goes.

So I do agree that Wen RuoHan had all the potential to become a great villain, not just because he has all the power and followers that let him do whatever he wanted but also because the cultivation world sold us the story of him being a monstrous villain who loved blood and torture. But when the other sects create an uprising against the Wen Sect and label it the Sunshot Campaign, not once does Wen RuoHan try to subdue them. Not once does Wen RuoHan ever turn to violence and punishment or slaughter. He had the potential to be a great villain and stomp on all of them! But he doesn’t.

And I don’t think that’s because his potential went unmet. That’s just his character. He is an antagonist with the potential to become a great villain and yet he stays his hand. His power instead draws villains to him like flies to honey. There’s a reason people wear their time spent as a guest cultivator of the Wen Sect with pride! Wen RuoHan is good to his Sect. The perks and benefits cannot be matched.

But it’s not only the dregs of society that come to the Wen Sect and abuse its power. Wen RuoHan has three morally distinct people closest to him that reveal that he has the potential to be well-rounded:

Wen Qing: speaks her mind, a doctor, refuses to kill, intelligent, talented in the liberal arts, accompanies Wen RuoHan to discussion conferences, pays her debts, won’t die for the main branch which is just an alternative of her don’t-kill policy which is don’t-die-for-stupid-shit-customs policy

Wen ZhuLiu: loyal to a fault, dedicated, obedient, was told to protect Wen Chao and does his job incredibly well because this is how he pays his debt to Wen RuoHan for saving him, doesn’t do anything unnecessary, doesn’t speak unnecessary words

Meng Yao: loyal only to himself at the end of the day, prideful, hardworking, scheming, ambitious, supports petty revenge, pro-murder, stabs as a warning, will sell you to satan for one corn chip, does not acknowledge owing debts to anyone but has the receipts on what others owe him

All three characters are respected for their talents and effectively do as Wen RuoHan tells them. Wen Qing leaves for the Yiling Supervisory Office and takes her rational mind with her. Wen ZhuLiu leaves to protect Wen Chao and leaves Wen RuoHan undefended. Meng Yao makes himself useful in Nightless City and thus stays closest to Wen RuoHan’s side. So who is the one speaking in Wen RuoHan’s ear the most? The one saying murder is OK so take revenge.

And even then Wen RuoHan still doesn’t take his revenge, I’m just saying.

But what I’m trying to get at on this scenic route is that Wen RuoHan is left with all this wonderful potential for a reason. Not only do we see his potential but other characters see it, too. His potential is turned into someone else’s profit. Nie MingJue claims that Wen Qing should have spoken up more, which implies Wen RuoHan has the potential for change or even to do good. The majority, however,  persist on not just his potential but his status as a great evil. The characters in the story make Wen RuoHan into the penultimate evil by a post-war consensuses. With that, the ceiling is pushed so high that other evils are able to bloom in the glass house they’ve made.

“Whatever we do can never be as bad as what Wen RuoHan and the Wen Sect did,” the cultivation world says as they let a mass murderer run rampant, as people are used for demonic cultivation test subjects, as prisoners of war are beaten and killed, as a dozen women are raped and murdered for petty revenge, as brother betrays brother, as a father murders his innocent son for political gain, as juniors are kidnapped and used as bait...

So absolutely Wen RuoHan was a catalyst for many events because people either wanted to be him, have him in their fighting corner, or kill him. He perpetuated events by wanting to correct the cultivation world as he saw fit by indoctrinating juniors in the Wen Sect ways or by setting up supervisory offices to prevent rebellious behavior. He delegated these tasks which put people in positions of power that they only saw fit to abuse.

But Wen RuoHan’s potential to be a great villain competes with his inherent lack of interest in causing death and destruction. I think that makes him not just a compelling antagonist compared to all the others but a fascinating character in general. Considering MDZS gets praised for all its morally grey characters, I don’t think Wen RuoHan should be left out of the conversation.

[crossdressingdeath]

I think the biggest reason why people saying it’s sad JC basically has no one bugs me so much is because more often than not, the people saying refuse to acknowledge why that is. There’s a reason why JC isn’t close to anyone after 13 years. There’s a reason he hasn’t married, why his sect keeps to themselves, why people are afraid to anger him. Yes it’s sad he’s alone but there are reasons behind why that is 1/2

MXTX didn’t do him dirty like many like to claim. She uses JC to show what happens when you put your own interests over others too many times. When you let the negativity rule over your life. JC is meant to be WWX’s opposite from their skills to personality to their morals. There’s a reason why WWX ends his story happy and content with his new life while JC is only just realizing he needs to move on. It’s sad he’s alone but what makes it so sad is that he did it to himself 2/2

MXTX did a good job of giving every character still alive at the end of the novel the ending they’d earned. For WWX and LWJ, that meant a happy ending, finally free to be together. For JC, it meant as far as we can tell a lifetime alone, trapped in the knowledge that he could have had people by his side if he hadn’t chosen to drive them off. He is alone because he chose to be alone, even if he doesn’t realize that himself. Frankly it would’ve been a betrayal of the themes of her story for MXTX to give JC a happy ending, because MDZS does have a strong running theme that the past will always catch up to you. No matter how rich and powerful you are, eventually you’ll piss off the wrong person, or too many people, or just hurt good people too damn much, and it will come back to bite you. There’s no escaping what you’ve done forever. JC is powerful enough to avoid any political or legal consequences for his actions, at least for now. But his cruelty does have repercussions; just like how JGS was murdered by JGY for his mistreatment and JGY was in turn killed for NHS’s revenge, there’s a price to pay for the way JC treats those around him. In his case, that price is the loss of everyone who might have stayed by his side and loved him. WWX and JL would’ve stayed with him if he’d been even slightly good to them, if he’d done anything to support them and treat them with the love he supposedly held for them. He chose not to. They left because he chose to drive them away. He’s alone not because the rest of the cast is mean, or because MXTX did him dirty, but because that’s the ending he earned with his actions.

Also I hate the argument that MXTX “did JC dirty” in general because... no one’s arguing she did XY or JGY or SS dirty. JC may not have been an out-and-out villain but he was an antagonist, and he got an antagonist’s ending. I imagine she’d planned JC’s ending out before she started writing him, because everything he does from his first appearance is leading up to that moment in the Guanyin temple where he finally goes too far for even WWX to accept and he leaves. The last ally JC had left, the last member of the family he grew up with by his side... and JC drives him away because the thought of setting the past aside and moving forward is too much for him to even consider. JC loses WWX in the end, specifically because he was trying so hard to keep him leashed to the Jiangs through guilt and cruelty. That’s the ending the story was building towards for him. It’s what he earned, not something MXTX just... chose to do. Authors don’t tank their characters’ storylines just for shits and giggles. She didn’t just decide she hated a good boy character and give him a tragic ending because of that, she planned for JC to end up where he did. Perhaps consider that when an author sees fit to give a character an antagonist’s ending it’s because they’re an antagonist.

[vermillioncrown]

Does ZYX do anything different as Xue Yang? I guess if they transmigrate in from birth its a more generic "how to move up in the world as a street orphan, street smarts" thing, versus say right around the end of sunshot when he becomes a Jintern

thank you anon for delineating the au, i really truly appreciate it

1) street orphan

zyx isn't a go-getter, and really hasn't truly suffered once in their life. (i know blah blah you cannot compare tragedies and trauma)

idk 50/50 tiny z!xy just fucking dies of cholera, or manages to scrap long enough to find a way into a sect (bc that's the best chance of survival)

calculating... best-best chance is either endearing themselves to the nie (but it's so fcking cold and hard to travel there as a starving orphan brat), or waiting out the sunshot campaign and beg jiang 'big-mad' cheng to let them into yunmeng jiang. or wait out and joing lanling jin under the evil jinternship, but that is definitely making a deal with a devil that z!xy would rather avoid.

(there's nothing z!xy can do for the state of the world. they can't even take care the state of themself).

maybe post-war wwx gains a little shidi that's too curious for their own good. too sticky. wwx can shove jc and jyl away with more force and guile, but he's at a loss for what to do with the single-minded focus of this pointy brat that keeps getting in his way. clings to him and starts blabbing about everything and nothing, and within that nothing there's something ("ahahaa - Xiao-Yang, you can't tell Xian-gege this stuff, you know Jiang-zongzhu doesn't want other people trying demonic cultivation -" "Xian-ge, I just wanna know!")

(based on relationship dynamic, z!xy is less shy about rambling and thinking. they aren't expected to be wwx's peer. all that matters is being the impetus for wwx himself to calm down, reassess, think outside the box)

wwx, instead of storming qiongqi path when wn is near death/dies, sneaks in earlier to look for the wen sibs.

"oh no" he realizes too late that z!xy has been following him. "was i that annoying? am i being punished???"

anyways, sticky rice grain z!xy. full annoyance mode, forcing wwx into shaping up.

=

2) jinternship fast-track

"FUCK" what can z!xy do besides act the part? it's about survival. they gotta be flexible. do things they don't want to do. maybe switch track from the casual sadism that canon-xy showed into a researcher's single-mindedness. don't drown in the abyss while swimming to safety.

nothing holds them here, not expectations, responsibilities to others, reputation. just their life. they gotta do enough for the jins to keep him around (now that he knows their secret), he needs to glean as much legit cultivation from them and resources as possible.

as long as they don't go fucking hogwild and slaughter the yueyang chang clan, xxc and sl won't go chasing him down. z!xy can cause a little accident in lanling, make a big mess for the jins to clean up and explain and fuck off

(if all ends well, they are free to wander and roam. maybe they end up convincing jgy that jgs ain't shit.)

let's say things don't end well.

they now have an even worse reputation than in canon, regardless of body count. lanling jin throws everything on z!xy, jgy&jgs denounce them, and there's no protection. z!xy is on the run

'well, canon-xy was able to hide for so long in yi city. why can't i? there's nothing to lose at this point'

z!xy is now stuck in yi city and its surrounding townships. stuck with this monstrous reputation (fucked up enough to overshadow wwx's for the moment to allow him to regroup - you're fucking welcome, yiling patriarch!) stuck with a bastardized cultivation method, twisted from what they had to study and what little they could steal from the legitimate side of things.

this sucks. at least the little blind girl stealing from them doesn't give a shit.

("oh, for fuck's sake - you can't just keep spending your money on -" z!xy is appalled at a-qing's eating habits. "fine, if i'm indirectly feeding you, i might as well feed you right" they say, dragging her back to their homebase in yi city)

if not canon-xy, something else would happen to xxc. his way would have him stumbling into things people preferred left covered. would any villain worth their salt leave champions of justice like xxc and sl together and functioning? no. something happens to them. they get separated, hurt, something.

"fucking damn it!" z!xy howls while dragging an unconscious daozhang back to base.

(something something kinda-enemies-to-lovers or whatever)

(bc z!xy has done horrible things as a choice to survive in this way, and they will acknowledge it. that must be reconciled with xxc's and/or sl's sense of morality)

[robininthelabyrinth]

Do you think things would have been different if little things happened? Like what if they let Jgy hold little JL, maybe treated him with more respect? Would he have still become what we know him as in present time? Would he have still convinced Su She to do the curse, or by then would it have been too late? Could he have helped calm wwx and WN to avoid Jin Zixuan's death? Basically Jgy not being evil mastermind but still deciding to work behind the scenes, though for good this time 🥺

Assuming this is a request for an answer, not a fic: No, not really. I don’t think that would change anything. I love JGY, I really do, but let’s be real, he’s a murderous sociopath who thinks killing other people is fine if it gets him what he wants, and he wants to be powerful, to be respected, and he lives in a world that’s just not going to give that to him the way he wants. 

By the time JGS allowed JGY into the family, that was already a part of who he was - he’d already made a deal with XY, he’d already murdered the Nie cultivators who suspected what he’d done, he’d killed on behalf of WRH, and, let’s be honest, in the Untamed? He waits a LONG time before turning on Wen Ruohan. A loooong time - and he only turns on WRH after WWX pulls out his demonic cultivation which he had no reason to know was something that the other side could wield. 

That sort of personality isn’t going to be appeased by a few crumbs of respect, letting him hold a baby, or being treated as part of the family - NMJ treated him with a great deal of respect, put a lot of trusted him, treated him better than his own brother, and JGY made the deal with XY anyway, a deal he would never have been able to get NMJ to sign off on, not in a million years. Which means he was already planning his exit from the Unclean Realm even then. 

Sure, people were rude to him in Qinghe - but they’re going to be rude, if not ruder, in Lanling. That’s not something that the family can change. Sure, they’re his blood family, which he seems to value, but clearly not that much - he’s the type of person to murder his own kid on the off chance that there could be a genetic defect! Because it might be harmful to his reputation!

More to the point, no matter how nice they are, it’s not going to change the fact that JZX is the heir and JGY is not. JGY’s route to power in Lanling goes, by necessity, over JZX’s corpse - and over Jin Zixun’s as well, as a cousin. JGY was always going to do something, even if it wasn’t that specific incident, and then he was going to need to do something about Wei Wuxian, too - far too powerful, far too much of a loose cannon to allow to run free. It’s not a coincidence that the people who survived JGY are the ones he had a means of controlling: NHS because he was pathetic, LXC because he was blind, JC because he loved JL more than he cared about politics and because he’s pretty easy to manipulate. 

Mind you, if you’d like me to try my hand at an AU where Meng Yao uses his self-absorbed sociopath murderer-ness for the forces of good, please send in a prompt! It’d be an interesting thought experiment.

[llycaons]

41. well it’s jgy time...I GUESS

while it’s true that jgy was treated horribly by the other cultivators, I think nmj didn’t really handle it in the most effective way. if someone’s being mistreated by their coworkers because of something they can’t control, it’s useless to tell them to just be perfect and not give them anything to complain about. because no matter how perfect you are (and jgy tried so hard to be perfect) there are always people who will look down on you for...something you can’t control

and making a guy he met minutes ago his vice deputy knowing absolutely nothing about his skills or character except that he apparently is a weak cultivator? poor move, nmj. jgy wasn’t suited for the position, he couldn’t turn it down, and it placed unfairly high expectations on him that would result in even greater ridicule if he failed

not that jgy isn’t highly capable in his own right, obviously, and I see the logic behind giving him a chance to shine, it’s just that it didn’t work

oh! cql did include the detail that wrh murdered nmj’s father by proxy when he broke his saber! I missed that. it was more explained in the book.

jgy and wwx are foils for each other but I was just thinking that lwj and jgy are just...complete opposites in temperament, ideals, motivation, goals, background, skills, etc

while jgy is calculating, a great actor, very expressive, great at reading/manipulating people, a liar, changes his principles to suit his needs, says whatever the most powerful people will agree with, a constant people-pleaser, hides his true intentions, an excellent spy, avoids punishment whenever possible, is invested in his position and reputation, desperate to survive and get a little respect for once, willing to kill people on his side, not a very strong cultivator, a passable musician, murdered his biological son, born to a poor mother and rejected by his birth father in favor of a legitimate son despite how hard he tries to find a place with them - lwj is almost exactly the opposite of all of that

he’s steadfast in his principles once he’s got them solidified, he has an iron will, becomes willing to throw aside his reputation and good name for what he believes in, his integrity is literally legendary, he’s honest, ready to bear pain and punishment to support his side, desperate just to find the people he loves and keep them safe, deeply invested in his clan’s wellbeing for its own sake, as an adult usually doesn’t intentionally hide his feelings so much as fail to communicate them properly, an extraordinarily powerful cultivator and brilliant musician, terrible at talking to people, loved and supported by his clan (for the most part, until he chooses to turn against them), in a position of high unassailable privilege, incredibly stubborn, incredibly earnest, genuinely gentle, never going on about his own struggles and pains to elicit sympathy or pity, very caring and protective towards his adopted son, with a mother who died young, the perfect lan clan disciple until he changed his perspective, unwilling to compromise himself or his values for anything he deems unworthy of it (and given his position, that’s something he can afford to do)

basically he could never in his life have been a convincing spy

the only thing they have in common is playing guqin and loving their moms who were treated terribly by their fathers. also they both are close with lxc obviously. oh! and I do think they think highly of themselves, it’s just that lwj doesn’t really pretend not to

I think if nmj was an animal he would be a cat

gotta say I don’t think lan xichen is very good-looking :/

nmj’s death scene is interesting because actually, I don’t think he makes many good points? like, he’s right. jgy is sneaky as hell and definitely protecting xy. but technically, jgy didn’t have the authority to just kill a prisoner that his father favored. we’ve seen what happens to people who go against the word of jgs. and shouldn’t nmj have gone to the person with that authority instead of demanding his subordinate do it? yeah yeah ulterior motives. but I guess being opposed to blood payment isn’t outlandish in this setting? it’s a little vague on the general consensus on that (which is ALSO influenced by politics)

jgy also makes some good points about how in his position there are just things he cannot do and he has to be careful about where he steps in a way that nmj never has had to worry about in his life. at this point, I really do understand why he did what he did during sunshot. killing allies as a spy and insulting nmj wasn’t great obviously but like. it was a war. and like, that commander was such a dick. insulting his mother and all. nmj’s people should have been better than that. come on. and disenfranchised people in the cultivation world really will be eaten alive by the nobility. wwx was an outlier in that he was able to create genuine change and it all went to shit anyway. the only reason wen ning, he, and a-yuan were all reunited and alive at the end was because they were sheltered, used, or brought back by members of the nobility

everything except for releasing xy though. that was really bad.

nmj is right about his suspicions, obviously, he doesn't even know about the fact that jgy murdered jzx and set off the bloodbath at nightless city, but hes still right that jgy is a self-serving murderer. but jgy also has legitimate grievances with how he’s been treated. and nmj kicking him down the steps again and then insulting his mother? bad look. well, he was qi-deviating at this point. and whose fault was that, huh?

man, the special effects for the scene kind of sucked. they couldn’t have used blood that was less cherry red?

at one point wwx opened his eyes but clearly wasn’t conscious. the glazed look was great. acting

oh their rooms at koi tower are so pretty!! blue and gold and pale pink really is so pretty. did lwj just say “we’re staying in the same house” and the jin guy was like sure of course whatever you say hanguang-jun

nmj got turned into a fierce corpse after (before?) his death! right!

ohh when paperman wwx landed on suibian, jgy didn’t move because he was trying to figure out if “mxy” was really wwx and could unsheathe it

the suibian fight looks so goofy. her wielder is 3 inches tall and he just needs to distract jgy long enough to float through the mirror. jgy can’t even try to stab him bc he’s fending off an attack from a floating suibian and the little paperman is already 10 feet away. nice job, wwx

so I guess this means his gc is back? he can’t wield her without it, right? certainly not remotely

lwj just mowing down any disciples who get in their way. love that

I find it so interesting that JL doesn’t listen to lwj no matter how many times lwj gives him a very stern mentor look, which he used to only needing to do once. lwj interacting with a kid who doesn’t revere him or obey him could be so illuminating for both of their characters but we never see it

su she is here

“su she” lwj says in disgust

it’s this fucking guy

again

I feel you, lwj

I feel you