#jiang cheng discourse

[sonik-kun]

"Stop taking away the features that make Jiang Cheng interesting!" JC antis cry, whilst simultaneously ignoring or denying all his good traits.

[purpiesaint]

Here’s the thing about a lot of the jiang Cheng discourse. I don’t care that you hate him.

What I find extremely irritating is acting like hating him means that you understand the book better or some how are more intelligent than fans who enjoy him.

You see a lot of antis of Jiang Cheng are very by the book. They dislike cql a lot, they don’t like lan Wangji bottoming (which is so????), their constant insults to JC fans are like ‘read ing comprehension’ hell their anti tag, instead of being a normal anti tag for a character it’s ‘canon jiang Cheng.’

It’s just weird smugness about it all. Like just dislike the character, think he’s a dickhead but don’t think you’re better or more understanding of the work because you dislike him.

Hell I think a lot of dislike is just a personal thing. Some people can see his flaws as relatable and some think he acts like a huge jerk to people.

ALSO this is a big point, like guys, you are aloud to criticise mdzs, yall criticise the fuck out of cql but suddenly mdzs is UNTOUCHABLE and if you ever disagree with MXTX you are bad. Just like plenty of fans disagree with the direction their fave stories go.

Just stop being so weirdly smug about hating a character, seesh.

[piosplayhouse]

[lgbtlunaverse]

heads- up: someone is taking jc-centric fics and turning them into jc-bashing wangxian fics

I don't usually like to bring twitter drama over to tumblr but since the perpetrator in this case explicitly said they do this ON TUMBLR I felt it was pertinent to do so.

Today user DyuaLan on twitter, aka @jiaoji on tumblr, publically bragged about finding chengxian, xicheng, and zhanzheng fics and changing the names to make them wangxian fics with jiang cheng bashing.

When authors (understandably) reacted to this by blocking them, they boasted about still having 15 stolen fics in their drafts on top of the ones they've already posted.

And that they do all of this stuff on tumblr anyway, not twitter

If you have written any kind of Jiang Cheng ships, or Jiang Cheng-centric fic in general, and are not a fan of your work being stolen, it's in your best interest to block them.

They also said that they block everyone they steal from. Though if you go to the blog now and are blocked, please don't panic, that might just be for fanwar reasons.

Here's proof that DyuaLan is in fact the same person as Jiaoji:

(@jiaoji and @jiaoji2 lead to the same blog, it was probably called this because they at some point lost access/moved from their previous blog @jiao-ji)

And here jiaoji is bragging on their tumblr about feeling too lazy to even rewrite someone else's work

Their ao3 is "Jiao_ji" where they have 16 works total, most of which are in portuguese, making it harder to verify which ones are stolen, as a lot of their "sources" are probably in english. (Most of the fics they have written on tumblr itself are also in english) They also have a wattpad account with the url "Dilf_ji"

As a bonus here they are 2 years ago whining about zhancheng authors blocking them because it means they can no longer steal their fics, this has been going on for a while.

And talking a bit more about stealing from chengxian and zhancheng authors:

While I haven't written any jiang cheng ships, I am a fic writer, and I know the work that goes into it. I can work on a single oneshot for months on end. So this kind of attitude, where if you hate a ship the author's work is just free for the taking, is appaling to me. Inspiration is normal, fandom is inherently transformative. Hell, ao3 has a "works inspired by" function for exactly that. But wholesale lifting someone's else's writing, only changing the ship and adding salt about a character you hate? Yeah, no. "Character bashing" fics aren't my cup of tea in the first place, but if you're going to do it, at least have the decency to write the damn things yourself.

I don't like doing callouts, so while I know that I can't really control anyone else's actions, I want to say for my own peace of mind... please just block this person. I don't wanna cause even more discourse. Remember: you don't feed trolls. I posted this because i think writers deserve to be warned when someone is maliciously stealing and editing their work, not to instigate harassment.

[fubuwu]

Yk what, jiang cheng was valid for not wanting to help the wens. Not only had they massacred his sect and many others, but helping the innocent ones was suicide anyway. He'd be literally putting a target on his and his sects back if he sided with them. Plus he didn't owe them shit lol.

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Pretty sure it was specified that some of them were ex soldiers too..... a lot of whom were accused of war crimes and raping civilians during the war.... Hard to say giving the lack of info on them, but for all we know some of those war criminals could be amongst the wen remnants under new identities, seeking to start a new life after the war. I can see why jc and the others are wary of them (doesnt justify the camp they were put in, ofc. But jc's shocked reactions and feelings of betrayal when wwx left him for them was pretty understandable). They're all traumatised after the war and what the wen sect did. Makes sense that there would be a lot of distrust which you can't exactly hate a genocide survivor for....

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Stop holding his decision not to help them over him. Even wwx respected his wishes to keep out of it and defected for him.... because yk... even he had the decency to see and understand the difficult situation jc was in, unlike some of you jc antis clearly do -eyeroll-

[sailormelanie]

Outing myself here as a Jiang Cheng apologist. By the end of this post, maybe I’ll even be a stan, who knows!

I was browsing MDZS fan discourse on the relationship between Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian and found some fans frustrated with fanfic portrayals of their relationship being more friendly than it is in canon.

I hard disagree on that, but I certainly get it. (spoilers for MDZS obvi, if for whatever reason you haven’t read it/finished reading it)

Or rather, I agree that Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng dislike each other (or parts of each other), but I contend that they still very much love each other. The problem is that, at least in canon, neither of them knows how to love the other in the right away. Their upbringing just complicates things a lot :/ Weird family shit. Weird BROTHER shit too, tbh.

All of their conversations, even during their teen years, don’t really feel “loving” (though I would still contend that their combative-ness is a form of love). Their interactions in general feel awkward at times, and words feel constantly loaded, with both of them leaving those interactions feeling relieved that it’s over. But all the actions they take on behalf of the other are surely indicative of some form of love (JC rushing without rest to save WWX from the Xuanwu of Slaughter cave; WWX GIVING HIS GOLDEN CORE TO JC; JC distracting the Wen soldiers from WWX; JC tirelessly searching for WWX when he’s presumed dead at the hands of the Wen; WWX cutting himself off from the Jiangs because while he can’t compromise on his ideals, he’s not willing to drag the sect down with him etc. etc. etc.).  By the end of canon, they may not be friends, but they’re certainly family :P Essentially, when it comes to these 2, the mantra seems to be, “I can’t love you with my words, but my actions should speak for me.”

Which like. Ugh. UGH. ACTIONS ARE ALSO GOOD, BUT PLEASE USE YOUR WORDS.

I don’t mean to speak for “The Community” (I’m an ABC), but this kind of dislike-love relationship feels pretty typical of a Chinese family dynamic.

Anyway, this is why I like reading fics (post-canon, AU or otherwise) in which they learn to communicate and/or they learn how to interpret the actions of the other, because although it’s definitely softer than what we see in canon, I like to hope that even the worst relationships can be remedied so long as love is at the baseline. Maybe I’m projecting a bit, but I think there’s enough textual evidence to at least support the basic idea.

[web-novel-polls]

Hey geniunely, jiang cheng from mdzs is explicitly homophobic, rather than ace-coded, he doesn't stay single by choice but was blacklisted by matchmakers after he was rude to the women too many times. He also yelled at the gay couple who were paying respects to the people who raised one of them saying 'they were dirtying the place' and in his explicit thought process he's disgusted by them 'two men hugging like that was abnormal' in his perspective, he's also fine with hetero relationships, including his sister's marriage and his own.

Hey, genuinely, this isn't the place. The reason a lot of people submitted Jiang Cheng is because they connected with him as a character or the feelings he has about romance. There's a ton of adaptations of the original novel, including an MDZS Q episode, I believe, where the entire joke about him "getting a wife" was that she didn't exist. While some viewers took that as him not wanting romance at all, I assume you took / would've took that differently.

We can have a conversation about how everyone has interpreted different aspects of the novel & Jiang Cheng himself, but only if you can respect that when I, personally, read the novel, I related to him and his experiences due to my aroace-ness & own personal experiences, not because I think it's okay to be homophobic. Or that I viewed him as homophobic. And I'm working under the assumption that most, if not all, the people who voted for or like him as a character have similar reasons.

I have very clearly stated I do not want to have this conversation on this blog or in an accusatory manner. I have also stated that "Anti-Propaganda" is not allowed multiple times, and if it wasn't clear, I consider this "Anti-Propaganda." By answering this ask, I am forcing the people following this blog to listen to someone talk badly about a character they (probably) like when they have not followed for that reason, which for a lot of people, can be upsetting. It's not my or your responsibility to make sure they know how JC is viewed or even how he was originally meant to be portrayed.

I will only respond to this message since it sounds like you came from someone I had to block for spreading anti-propaganda and may not have realized why it's not allowed here. If you do want to discuss more or send posts, respectfully, you can message my alt @incorrect-web-novels, but again, I do not want to have debates on this blog.

[Please do not start arguing in the notes of this post. I am answering this to prevent future debates. I want anyone who sees this post to assume the best possible faith interpretation for everyone involved. Go submit stuff. Drink water. Hide this post if you have x-kit.]

[aqsaras]

some of yall fr write canon Jiang Cheng in the tags and then start making up your own damn fanfic in the post it's crazy

[sect-leader-jiujiu]

so this is regarding the jc page on the mdzs wiki, because the way some people twist the source text is getting ridiculous.

fanfiction is one thing, free card to do whatever, but the wiki?? please don't mask your opinion as facts. it's fine if you hate jc and think that everything he did is wrong. seriously. i couldn't care less about menial thoughts floating around in your head. but PLEASE don't go out of your way to purposefully taint every jc-related event in the novel. don't base your fandom experience on hate. do you think he should have tried harder to support wwx in backing up the wens? fine! write a jc-bashing fic and vent out those feelings. but don't pretend that it would have been the responsible choice, in-context.

wwx was being selfless on his own behalf, putting himself at risk. if jc had publicly supported him, he would have been selfless on his people's behalf. he would have been risking not his own reputation, but the safety of the many people he was in charge of. think of your kids, siblings, pets, or whoever you are responsible for. would you purposefully endanger them just to get activist brownie points on the internet? just because a mutual you love tells you it's for a good cause?

remember that wwx was not responsible for anyone: he could make his own choices and deal with the consequences himself. jc, on the other hand, could only make choices on the sect's behalf, never forgetting that they would suffer the consequences. and sure, in the present timeline yunmeng jiang has influence and power, but they didn't have that after ssc. there was no influence he could use as leverage. he had no way of intimidating the other sects into not taking advantage, into not punishing them for supporting the wens. and don't even start with the "lxc and nmj wouldn't have done that!" because you know what they didn't do? help the jiang rebuild. so yeah, it was each man for their own. and jc had to act like it.

so, next time you type out

Jiang Cheng prioritizes the preservation and survival of his family and clan, and has been known to do so even at the expense of others. (source: the wiki :eye_roll:)

to twist it and make it sound like it was unreasonable of him and like he kicked wwx to the curb, please remember that not everything orbits around wwx, even if he is the protagonist. characters make choices based on their circumstances, not based on who is the narrator of the novel. jc had no moral obligation to do what wwx felt like doing at any given point. and you can think jc was wrong, but you can't say that he made that choice "at the expense of others". like what? why, pray tell, would he choose the wens over his own people??? why are the wens more deserving of protection, according to you?

and because i know that you have to clarify everything on the internet i'm going to say that no, i'm not saying wwx was wrong. neither of them was wrong. they were both protecting vulnerable people, and both cases are noble individually. they just made choices based on their responsibilities and their conscience at the time. like normal people do.

again, think and feel whatever you want, but don't spread these kinds of takes as if they are solid claims. you are wrong and i do not want to see it.

[saaraofthesand]

I love Jiang Cheng but i will not defend him. Not because he’s not worth defending or anything but because I’M a coward and other mdzs fans scare me.

[lotusaku]

The day i start reading MDZS, it's gonna be over for yall

[sonik-kun]

Imagine obsessively hating a character? It's like, y'all aren't even writing meta on him at this point. You're just hating for the sake of hating. You do realise that by engaging in tags concerning the character you supposedly hate, the algorithm picks up on that and shows you more JC related content?

Here's a tip. If you don't like seeing positive JC posts or fanon art or fanfics of him, then stop talking about him. Stop obsessively combing through the tags, searching for things you dont like and looking for any excuse to bitch about him. Block JC fan accounts if you must. That will fix that little problem of yours.

Oh, and stop criticising fanfics and art, too. Why are you even reading a JC fanfic if you don't like him? Fics are often tagged appropriately.. If you're looking for a specific fic, read the tags.. You'll find what you're looking for that way.. I can guarantee the fic you're looking for is out there.. Instead of making pointless posts complaining about these problems, maybe take responsibility and curate your own fandom experience? Instead of bashing people's work? And asking why we make this content at all when the answer is so simple? We just want to have fun.

Just some friendly advice xoxox

[purpiesaint]

Hating Jiang Cheng as an adult okay I understand that. But hating child jiang Cheng? Like he was a little boy sad about his pets what is there to hate?

[piosplayhouse]

Not to be a discourse whore but I can't stop thinking about this post that was like "you can't claim Jiang Cheng isn't homophobic because he canonically hates wangxian and they literally are a homosexual couple"

If the ultimate marker of homophobia was being annoyed by wangxian pda then everyone in mdzs would be homophobic

[onhoude]

In the spirit of this beautiful meme post and an earlier short post of mine on Mu Qing that was my metaphorical big toe into the cold waters of this topic, I just wanted to say that I enjoy that Jiang Cheng, Mu Qing and Liu Qingge are non-partnered and may be assumed to have never been with anyone in the past.

I don't mean this in an I-hate-the-ships, or an I-hate-headcanons-about-this, kind of way, so please don't project that opinion onto me, thank you.

While I am especially reserved about commenting on Liu Qingge and his stance on partners because I don't know enough about his motivations, though his main interests appear in martial pursuits and upholding filial bonds and loyalty, or how other Peak Lords generally deal with it, I do like to fumble around a bit more with Jiang Cheng and Mu Qing's situation.

For Jiang Cheng, he isn't necessarily against marrying. In fact, he might actually end up marrying out of convenience for the sake of rearing an heir. It's simply that, and I genuinely mean this in the most neutral way possible, he is incompatible with what he would consider an ideal partner: proper and hard-working, but not outshining him, and kind to Jin Ling. Realistically, that won't happen with the state of the Cultivation World as it stands and how high Jiang Cheng's standards for 'proper/hard-working' as well as how thin the line is between that and still not outshining him in one or more ways, especially with his brisk attitude.

The chances of finding a meek partner who's still willing to deal with that and not eventually resent him for it are slim to none. I read somewhere are previous blind dates of his have blacklisted him? I can't find the source though. You'd end up with a relationship similar to Jiang Fengmian and Yu Ziyuan. This is something he will have to navigate on his own. It might mean the traditional path of proper succession that he was always meant to uphold isn't something he should strive for. In any and all cases, it's a compelling part of him I love to play around with safely from behind reinforced glass.

For Mu Qing, his cultivation and the results of his work are too important to risk for something he would consider far less valuable. As a man who views overcoming his standing and low birth and rising to the top as of the utmost highest of importance, he likely thought that the cultivating path of abstinence is both dignified and genuinely somewhat convenient.

Not only is abstinence an admirable aim to have for a cultivator that aims for spiritual enlightenment, compared to gods who have ascended on merits of their martial abilities or more grounded abilities surrounding civility, but it also keeps his status safe from potential scandals. Any rumours of escapades or wails of broken hearts are irrefutably baseless. There are no descendants that could potentially compromise or implement him either, for example.

But aside from those two reasons, with abstinence Mu Qing denies himself any indulgence even if he doesn't necessarily have to anymore. It's a means of control that may or may not come easy to him, but one he maintains steadily for centuries and definitely serves a purpose to who he is as a person. Though, yes, it lies parallel but is not necessarily linked with Mu Qing's lack of personability and some of his social ineptitude, which is something he struggles with throughout the entire story, I disagree it is an absolute reflection of his flaws and must be corrected, or grace forbids a 'damage that needs healing.' I think it's too ingrained in his personality and motivations to dismiss it as a bad choice for him.

It boils down to that I love their complex situations when it comes to not partnering with anyone, with Mu Qing and Liu Qingge (as cultivators without the ambition to uphold a lineage) most likely to never wed at all.

I'll reiterate that I'm not criticising ships or headcanons. I simply personally prefer that they could be attracted to someone and choose not to act on it because their priorities lie elsewhere, be it in battle, martial pursuits, ambition, or otherwise.

I love that it presents a struggle without it being a detriment to their lives. I love that romance or partnering isn't a focus in their arcs or lives. I love that it's something that can be complicated but not the wrong thing for them. I love that, while they have their faults, it's not that part of them that would need introspection and more so the circumstances and their relationships outside of romance or relationships.

[fubuwu]

Fuck it. Since I'm being spat on and tarnished by jc antis I'm unashamedly doing call out posts as they have harassed me on all my posts and got their little friends to gang up on me. Starting with this "lovely" person

Calling me an abuse apologist just because I said that madame yu had tough love methods..... I was in no way excusing her abuse towards wwx with that FYI. Wwx wasnt even mentioned in the og post.... Never once denied she was abusive in the post either (in fact i ackowledged her abuse numerous times in the post and how her children act around her. But apparently you willfully missed that part). I said she had tough love methods towards her children. NOT WWX. Wwx was not her child or have you forgotten that? She has a tough love attitude in the sense that she toughens up her kids, expects no nonsense, wants them to strive to do better, get on with it, stiff upper lip attitude etc. This does not mean it's a good parenting tactic.

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Using tough love to describe her parenting technique isn't a compliment. Apparently some of you don't know what it means because tough love, whilst there is love and good intentions behind the actions, it can also have unintended bad consequences on your children and is not a form of love you should expose your child to if you want them to become normal, emotionally stable people.

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It can lead to unhealthy coping mechanisms and suppressing emotions amongst other things I won't go into. I was in no way complimenting her. It was a critique. That should have been obvious. But in your words, ig some of you don't have reading comprehension.

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To accuse me of something so extreme as excusing abuse over a FICTIONAL CHARACTER and trying to get all your friends to agree and jump on my posts because I never explicitly made the above points obvious is what a bully would do. You know nothing about me and decided to make such allegations over a single post. I will not stand for this bullying.

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YOU should be ashamed of your behavior. I've seen your other posts and how you talk about and to REAL PEOPLE.

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You acting all morally superior whilst attacking me and many others like this makes you an abusive person FYI. And I won't sit there and take it from you or your friends.

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Moving on to specimen number two

This person has been spamming my notifications jumping on EVERY post, being disrespectful and pretty much accusing me, an ace person, for being ignorant about MY OWN IDENTITY and using ace stereotypes just because I surmised that jc could be ace due to his lack of interest in romance.

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Echoing the words used by another user in the thread, but denying that such ace persons exist is acephobic in itself. I'm an ace person who isnt interested in relationships outside anything that is close, platonic but meaningful. Many others in the jc fandom say the same thing which is why they see themselves in him. A large portion of the jc fandom are actually ace in fact and we love to see him used in ace rep posts. We're already made to feel like freaks, so to have that thrown in my face is very hurtful. Above all twisting my words and making out I said every ace person hates romance is very disingenuous. I NEVER once said that in the post. I wont have my character attacked and lied about like that.

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Also, once again TWISTING my words, implying I was pissed off about the incel claims when it was so obvious that I was merely asking out of curiosity where these claims come from?? Because it was never implied in the canon text. There was no anger or malice behind my questions. It was all open discussion. I can see now that this was mental gymnastics at play here to justify your hcs that you know are not canon and use it as an excuse to attack my posts with your friends, all because you were proven wrong. You lashed out on what was an otherwise polite discussion. That behavior is all entirely on you.

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Ive only ever been respectful in my posts and they were never done to provoke arguments or hate on others opinions. So to wake up and be accused of all sorts over a fictional character is very hurtful and just shows how terribly low your side of the fandom has to stoop just to prove a point and hate on jc.

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Im not tolerating it and these blatant LIES any longer. I hope other jc antis read these posts and see how nasty you all are. And if anyone thinks this sort of treatment is okay, then you need to look inwardly and step away from the computer. I'm done here.