#knowing that loops reason for being in the loops was the same as siffrins…

[radioroxx]

Do you think since loop has experienced the same day over and over and over and overx100 again they struggle with the idea of their birthday? like, it feels like any other day, there is no longer any feeling of "this is my day", its just a "day"? (random idea I had)

I THINK. i think i think i think. it would still feel weird but,, maybe for ? the opposite reason?

they spent so so so long repeating the same day and doing the same things and saying the same stuff and then suddenly, they get caught up in a different timeloop. they get to have new dialogues with siffrin ofc, but otherwise they are just… hanging out at the tree now. which also becomes repetitive of course.

then, assuming a… hypothetical post-canon where the loops are broken, and loop gets to live, they would eventually reach their birthday. and they would remember that of course- i think most people agree about that. BUT. being out of the loops, experiencing the world. whether it be with the party, or on their own, or with completely new people, who knows. point is everyday out of the loops is already different, therefore is already special.

that is to say. i dont think theyd have much room to, care for their birthday. unless (as if seen many birthday posts of it) siffrin were to remind them/celebrate for them….. yknow yknow

then again i have my doubts even siffrin knows their own birthday. my moneys on my hc that sept 1 is just the first day he could think of to tell the others, maybe after somebody had asked and they all went around in a circle sharing their birth dates. being a lone traveller for so long probably makes it hard to remember stuff like that,, plus. yknow. the . island stuff. forgetting . you get the idea

[lucabyte]

So does anybody else ever think about how Loop felt the need to demonstrate that the party's deaths wouldn't have any effect on the loops. I know I do but that's besides the point. Anyway I don't think Loop actually needs to bathe, they just like to feel included.

[arolesbianism]

In the future I believe I shall be calling looped Chou Piéride even tho they'd still go by Chou for clarities sake 👍

[loop-lover-central]

At least one(1) person asked for it. SO-

We'll start with some stuff from the isat spoiler Q&A

Let's get started!

-There is only one canonical straight shot timeline that technically erases the prologue from existence. When looping back the previous timeline is completely overwritten, like saving over your save file in a game! It's all gone! Despite this, when you start a new game you're making an entirely new Siffrin to torment. So at least you're not making the same Siffrin go through hell again and again! *sweeps Loop under rug* Don't look at that. Don't worry about them. They're fine.

-While wish craft and other craft types are described to have a smell, time craft does not! I mean, what would time craft even smell like anyway? Clocks???

-Mirabelle's time freeze immunity will wear off eventually!

-Loop could actually be still comfortable with He/They. While the time loops did put them through it, the They/Them was mostly for anonymity. But there WAS some sort of identity shift. So you can and should have fun with Loop pronouns. Do it! Do it!!!

-Despite the island being forgotten, it's still physically there the entire game and before that! So it being lost is purely anti-memetic fuckery. It is just censored out by the universe.

-Loop and Siffrin sitting quietly together was originally a bug where ID5 accidentally softlocked Siffrin and trapped him at the tree. They thought it was a sweet moment of respite and implemented it.

Let's Switch it up! Reddit AMA

-There was originally a love triangle between proto Mira, Isa, and Sif before Mirabelle was made aroace. It probably would have ended in an OT3/polycule situation. So QPR MiraIsaSif truthers out there, enjoy this one.

-The idea of Loop being Siffrin came about during saap's developement. Originally the guide for isat was going to be one of ID5's ocs.

-Change God knows everything about meta because they are a God. Loop only gets a smidgen of meta knowledge, however.

-Loop's ability to see what Siffrin is up to works the same way their calls work! The farther Siffrin is, the harder it is. So Loop calls stop working past snack break 3, and Loop can barely see past the King.

-Isabeau wouldn't play video games. He touches grass.

-Siffrin was subconsciously inspired by Snufkin, from The Moomins. So we wouldn't have Siffrin as he is if everyone wasn't rabid over Moomins a few years back.

-Sadnesses ARE are a constant in the world of isat. They only become more common and poweful during times of great duress, like war or Insane False Monarchs with timey wimey powers

-The doppleganger wish in the selfcest book happened "a long time ago" and is only a child's tale now.

-Odile's name is her given name. Kinda. (No elaboration on what the fuck THAT means.)

-Siffrin only got memory issues after leaving home. They were not a forgetful child.

-At one point before they had names, Isabeau was just called "dude".

-While only called scrawny in game, Adrienne calls Siffrin "deathly thin". Metabolism monarch out here. (Probably all the casual wish craft.)

-The reason the party stops reacting to Sif's poking is just because it's tragic and makes things worse for him. That's it. The universe just hates him.

-Everyone but Odile would like rollercoasters.

-Just... this. This is so funny. Also Loop being the final boss while Siffrin is the secret final boss... Also Loop confirmed deity looking!!!

-"comic!siffrin is a whole different siffrin than game!siffrins sadly. rip to them. still stuck in time" WAY TO FUCK ME UP ON A MONDAY? Comicfrin is still stuck in time.

-The characters have official voice claims but not a single one is serious except for the King's. Mira sounds like Animal crossing isabelle(isa.belle. hm.). Bonnie sound like a inkling from splatoon (ID5 specifically used the female inkling as example). Odile sounds old. Isabeau quantum mechanically sounds flamboyantly gay or like All Might from MHA. Loop sounds like stock glitter sound fx. No Siffrin voice claim. Siffrin has video game protagonist voices which means they sound like whatever you want.

-Loop's glow is comparable to a lamp. Not enough to hurt the eyes.

Siffrin and Friends Q&A time!!(Beware these are SEMI-CANON)

-Siffrin isn't really a trap master. They're just fast enough to activate and dodge the traps.

-Odile doesn't like fennel.

-Fave flowers! Bonnie=Sunflowers, Odile=Orchids, Mira=Lavender, Isa=Roses, Siffrin=None, dubiously answered with dandelions however.

-Sif is a night owl, Bon and Mira are early birds, and Odile and Isa are average.

-Siffrin and Odile have probably eaten crabs and would tempt Bonnie with their sinful ways of consuming crustaceans.

-Odile has been traveling for about 2 years.

-Odile knows how to play a shamisen. It's one of her favorite instruments as well.

-When prompted with competition Loop and Siffrin stare each other down like "kids about to throw hands".

-Loop would like to eat a pastry if they could. GIVE THEM YOUR BAKED GOODS NOW!

-Kill the King day is a Tuesday.

And finally random trivia I found while sniffing through the wiki!

-Salty broths actual cure 6 cooldown, instead of 2 like the dialogue implies.

-Chateau means castle. The cursing of castle castle...

-The Change God face with six eyes and a cat-like mouth is inspired by ID5's oc Eye Gal

-The only time tears can freeze Siffrin with no warning is in saap. By using the second Star Crest to clear one of the rows of Tears, you can just walk into the second row and freeze.

-The dev's older notes mention specific shades being used for hair dyes but they're never mentioned in-game because of the an unadded event.

-In ACT 2, there's a small chance Siffrin says "Heheh… Bonk." when activating the switch for the rock trap

-Saap Bonnie thinks nuts are gross according to some unused dialogue, but enjoys raisins.

-During early development in saap tears were originally intended to be spike traps. A left over sprite of Siffrin being impaled does exist, including minor blood spurt. This was probably changed because it was a little too gruesome, ID5 definitely tried to reel in the darker concepts and has stated they went too dark sometimes.

-Loop turning back into Siffrin was considered long enough for them to get an entire animated walking sprite.

[insertdisc5]

✨ The In Stars and Time Spoiler Q&A ✨

it's time. MASSIVE IN STARS AND TIME SPOILERS UNDER THE CUT. IT'S GONNA BE SO LONG. LET'S GO

I hope you are aware of The Secret Final Boss because I'm also gonna spoil the crab out of that. If you haven't,

1. Did you know the events for interacting with your souvenirs are randomized for some of them, and also change depending on how far you are in the game.

2. Did you know there's a way to show souvenirs to a certain character.

3. Did you know you can go back to Dormont during the Epilogue.

Figure that out, and come back here! Or watch a let's play online. You can also do that.

I will also try to adopt a ~mysterious cool voice with no exclamation points~ for Effect. Come with me on this journey.

Now. Questions time!

✨ Will you ever make a sequel to ISAT, or make a game in the same universe?

Nah. This was always intended to be The Story. This is your turn to imagine things now.

✨ But so what happened to the Country? What was its name? What about the wishes? What about the colors? What did Siffrin say as an openphrase to open the door to the King's room? What about--

I will not answer those. It's your turn.

✨ BUT THE COUNTRY AND THE COLORS AND THE WISHES

Ok fine. Here are some facts that I alluded to in-game, that I am confirming now.

-The Country disappearing and the events that made colors go away are not related.

-The colors disappeared a loooong time ago, which is why knowing they even existed is a relatively new find.

-A wish made everyone forget the Country.

I will ALSO say that ISAT's map operates on Final Fantasy/General Fantasy rules (i.e. in-universe locations are based off of real ones when it comes to culture, but are not one to one parallels, especially for geography), so no, the Country isn't based on the UK oh my god please do not say that to me again or im deleting ISAT out of your computers and putting legos at the foot of your bed. It's based on another place. You can figure it out, I believe in you.

✨ But why won't you give more info on what happened :(

Can you imagine if I did answer. Wouldn't that be a bummer, whatever my answer was. Sometimes things need to stay a mystery. And also, I don't want to answer <3

✨ Does the world Loop came from still exist after they left? Or is this a get mystery'd situation?

There is only One Timeline and it's the timeline that goes from the prologue to ISAT. Every timeline that gets rewound does not exist anymore, and that includes the prologue's timeline.

✨ What's the deal with Siffrin's dream at the start?

It's Siffrin's dream, but that doesn't mean our Siffrin is the main star.

✨ Is [specific missable game moment] canon?

Every moment that you personally experience in the game is canon.

✨ Is there a reason Siffrin remembers their name but the King doesn't?

What makes you think Siffrin does?

✨ At the very very end of the game, if you look out the window behind the Head Housemaiden, Sif mentions seeing an island in the distance. Is that his country?

It is. It's always been there, for the whole game. You can see it in the distance, too.

✨ Who was the King, before?

He was just a guy!

✨ With the King left remembering in the end, does that in any way change the redaction effect for other people in the world going forward?

That's a fun idea. Maybe!

✨ One thing that never really clicked for me is: Is the sweet smell Time Craft or Wish Craft? Or is the sweet smell TIme Craft and specifically the burnt sugar smell is Wish Craft? Other way around? Does this question even matter since without Wish Craft you can't attain Time Craft in the first place? (To me, yes.)

Wish Craft smells sweet. Time Craft doesn't have a smell per se, but it does do something.

✨ Does Mirabelle retain her immunity to being frozen in time after the events of the game or does it go away after the Head Housemaiden is saved? Or does it persist for a while and eventually fade away?

I imagine the immunity slowly faded away. But no one's left to do Time Craft, so it's a moot point anyway.

✨ How was Odile able to stop Siffrin from looping back during the fight against Siffrin?

In the Discord channel I stated that it's because "she's just that cool", but really, she does have access to some skills that heighten the efficacity of Rock/Paper/Scissors attacks, so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine she could lower the efficacity of Time Craft as well. In this last loop, while listening to Loop and observing, she could figure out Siffrin was looping way earlier than she could in even the Sus Quest, so she made plans. She is Very Smart <3

✨ Will you ever share everyone's full names?

That's artbook content <3

✨ In the ending, what happened to Siffrin's hat?

Flew away. It's gone now.

✨ Looking back at the original comics, and seeing how comic!sif has both eyes at the start of their loops, but in ending sequences is shown with his eye patch...did you ever consider making that concept of sif losing their eye a part of the main loop in either of your games? and if so, was there any reason why you decided against it?

Early on, I did think about making that whole event an event that happens during the loops, but quickly let that go since 1. it would be a pain to write and code (two different sets of Siffrin portraits!) and 2. if it happened, the player might want to look for a way to NOT make that happen and so 3. it would be a pain to write and code

✨ How was Siffrin's homelife before?

Pretty good!

✨ How old were Nille and Bonnie when they ran away? How old was Sif when their home got zapped?

Both were teens.

✨ How old IS everyone?

Siffrin is mid-late 20s. Mirabelle and Isabeau are early-mid 20s, with Isabeau being slightly older. Bonnie is a preteen. Odile is Too Old For This. Petronille, Bonnie's sister, is late teens-early 20s. You can ignore whatever I said in the prologue's artbook, whoever wrote this was Wrong!!!!!!!!!!

✨ Regarding the book that talks about someone who crafted a copy of themself using wish craft: is that meant to imply someone we know is the author (and/or the copy), or is it not directly related to any of em? or is it a "who knows ;)" situation where we can just speculate and theorize either way?

Please check the book again during Act 5! This applies to most items/map events by the way, like the pendant. You can check those during Act 5 and 6 for some fun new dialogue!

✨ Why are Siffrin's clothes so warm looking?

The Country got cold at night.

✨ What's up with Siffrin's pins?

They're made out of a special material. And also, they make Siffrin look cool <3

✨ I want to know the story behind Loop’s different eye shades!

They're blind in one eye. Also, fun foreshadowing <3

✨ What determines whether someone is paper/rock/scissors craft? Is it assigned naturally at birth or something else (and how do you find out)? Does it make you more inclined to use that specific craft or is anyone generally free to use whatever craft they want?

Astrology rules, It Just Is A Thing. Being Rock Type means it is way easier for you to do Rock Craft, but that doesn't mean you can't learn other types of craft, although it's way harder. Doing Craft of your type is instinct, doing Craft of another type would take some time and resarch.

✨What crimes has Odile committed before. I need to know.

Odile just smiles.

✨ Why did the King specifically target the House of Dormont?

I had a reason in mind, but adding it to the game would've added a layer of Explanation that really didn't need to be there. It's just a nice House.

✨ Who was Odile's hatecrush...

Dunno. It's your turn.

✨ What is loop's body situation. like is the surface of their "skin" solid? they did poke siffrin that one time, and we know they aren't cold, but...

I have some idea. But it's your turn!

✨ Would Sif still have looped if they hadn't made the wish he made in the beginning? As in, would Vaugarde's combined wish have made him loop until managing to beat the King?

No. But without time powers, you can imagine what would've happened next.

✨ During the Loop Hangout, how did the rest of the team make it all the way to The King? What about during Act 5?

During the Loop Hangout: with difficulty. During Act 5: Loop was there to guide them.

✨ Is Loop: 1. Actually comfortable with both he and they, but only gave the one pronoun to emphasize the distance? 2. Only using they/them because a large life event led to a shift in identity/ how they'd like to be perceived? or 3. time lops stole he from they they :(

Mostly that first one. But all three of those reasons have a bit of truth to them.

✨ Who cooked crab in the House of Change???

This is a very funny question! I've never thought about it. It's your turn.

✨ What are the Orbs that open the gate? Did the King create the Gate or was it there before?

(did not think about the orbs or the gate beyond "plot that proves there was a journey before") Stop Asking Questions,,,, It's your turn,,,,,,

✨ Bonnie's dialogue is *extremely* accurate to how overexcited kids talk, which is really rare to see. Was that something that took a lot of effort to achieve, or did it come naturally to you?

Thank you <3 I'm just that good. Really, Bonnie is an adult with no filter, and less general knowledge. I'm very glad I managed to write Bonnie well, especially since. I haven't talked to a kid. Since I was one myself

✨ The Spoilery Concept Art. Blease

oh yeah. here have it all. this is what I gave Mimi to do the animated trailer!

✨ So. What's everyone's favorite shade.

FINALLY the question. Plus I can say shade names now. White = darkless, Black = lightless. Light and Dark is like light grey/ dark grey. Oh my god I'm checking my notes and I wrote a small event I never used about hair dye colors like "midnight dark", "tomato grey", "snow light" past me that's so fucking funny

Anyway, Siffrin loves darkless, Mirabelle is more of a light shade lover, Isabeau loves that lightless (BECAUSE ITS FASHIONABLE OK), Odile likes darker shades, and Bonnie also loves that lightless (BECAUSE ITS AS DARK AS MY SOUL OK)

✨ Are there any bugs you found during developments that you've made into features?

Two! The first one was the ability to ask Loop to just silently hang out during Act 4. I messed up the code and the game softlocked there, with Siffrin and Loop sitting there silently. I thought it was very sweet. They deserve a little quiet time.

The second was in Act 5 - the House map had a lot of issues with the Act 5 map bringing you back to the normal House map. So one of the testers got brought to the normal House map and didn't notice, and interacted with the Mirror on Floor 3, and it gave them the normal interaction with everyone seeing the mirror and taking a picture, and when they went to look at the picture in their inventory, it gave them the actual Act 5 picture. A little bit after they realized the game bugged out, and told me about it, and begged me to keep that in because they were very unsettled by it. So here it is! Beforehand, it was just Siffrin silently taking a picture, so I'm glad I changed it.

✨ Did you ever have emotional difficulty writing the more sensitive parts of the script, like Siffrin’s intrusive/negative thoughts, for one reason or another? Moreover, did you worry the script may be darker than your initial vision for it anticipated?

Not really. The Mirabelle and Odile hangout scenes were the hardest scenes by far because I really wanted to get them right, but everything else was about the same amount of difficulty. And actually, I wanted to go a little bit darker for the script, but I was worried it was going to be too dark... When it comes to the dagger event, I had a whole tangent about Siffrin thinking about the best way to strike, so to speak, but I deleted it because it was getting A Little Too Detailed. T rating come back to me

✨ For the questions you WON'T answer, did you have your own answers while making the game? Or were they left blank?

Some of them I do, some of them I don't!

✨ I loved this game and I want to replay it but I don't want Siffrin to go through everything again!

Here's a little fun fact I decided: if you hit the credits, you helped a Siffrin escape. If you start a new game, you are creating a new Siffrin that you can emotionally tortu-IIIIIIII MEAN, a new Siffrin that you can help. Do not worry about your Siffrins they are fine

✨ A lot of those answers ended up being "It's your turn", huh.

Yea <3 The answers to some of those questions ARE there if you look. Some just aren't. But you can imagine whatever you want. It's your turn! I finished the game! I'm done working! It's your turn!!!

✨ I loved ISAT and it made me feel so many feelings!

Thank you so much. I'm sorry if you sent a message or ask and I didn't answer it. I read every single one and cherish it! Thank you for playing and thank you for writing me a message!!!!! When I get a little down I look at all of those and I feel better. Thank you. I'm sorry I can't answer them all.

✨ What will you work on next?

I have a project I'm currently in the preproduction stages of. I don't want to talk about it until I feel like I have some stuff to show. Plus I still have to make the ISAT artbook and some other stuff, so it won't be for a while. Nonetheless, I hope you will enjoy it!!!

[felikatze]

THE ISLANDER EUPHRASIE THEORY: THE CRACK HEADCANON THAT RUINED ME FOREVER

HI. you might know me as the kingphie divorce guy. or as the guy who wrote the 6k ludonarrative essay. Today i am going to introduce to YOU @the-bitter-ocean's fantabulous ISLANDER EUPHRASIE THEORY!!!

DISCLAIMER

This post contains SPOILERS for ALL of In Stars and Time. INCLUDING THE ACT 6 SECRET!!

You have been warned.

ALSO!!!!

The original headcanon/theory is VERY MUCH Ocean's fantastic work! I am merely rehashing all the arguments for it that have been laid out across various chats into one cohesive thing people can look at. Also citations! Who doesn't love those.

WHAT IS IT?

Well, it's quite simple. It's the theory that Euphrasie, love of my life and Head Housemaiden of Dormont, is from the forgotten island, same as Siffrin and the King.

(Yes, this is why divorce AU exists.)

WHY DO YOU EVEN BELIEVE THIS?

Quite a lot of reasons, actually.

It's really funny

Let us begin with: the basics.

SUPERFLOUS AESTHETIC DETAIL

HAIR COLOR

This is Euphrasie. She's very pretty. I love her.

You might notice several things about her, like her fantabulous white hair.

Well. What other characters have white hair?

You have guessed correctly. The ONLY OTHER white haired characters with actual artwork are Siffrin and the King, both from The Island The World Forgot. Thus we can assume that it's a typical hair color for islanders. Makes it stand out very much that Euphie also has it.

(What about the beautiful one- sh sh sh he's blonde. He's blonde.) (Well, actually, considering that they are the only one who acknowledges that Vaugardians are also weird, what if he's from the island as well? Checkmate atheists.)

EYELASHES

(EDIT!!!!! FINALLY PUTTING THIS ON THE MAIN POST!!!

Turns out I was incorrect in this. Some characters (Mira, Isa) also have eyelashes on SOME portraits. The mentioned chars r still notable for Always Having Em, + the Loop lashes are like, literally intended as plot twist foreshadowing, but, hey.

That's what you get for writing essays at 1am.

IN RETURN!!! Someone pointed out to me [i forgot who sorry] that Euphrasie's capelet.... has stars on it!! It's speckled like the starry sky!! Now isn't that a neat coinkydink.)

(Original text left up because I respect my past self's artistic vision. And his lunacy.)

Correct. Eyelashes.

Going back to our portrait of Euphie, she is drawn with precisely three eyelashes. Why is this notable? Because Siffrin and Loop are.

So much so, that being drawn with three eyelashes, is specifically an element of foreshadowing to Loop's true identity.

(squints at character portraits) literally no characters besides Siffrin, Loop, and Euphrasie have eyelashes? Oh my god. What? Nobody has eyelashes? What the fuck? (okay, some moments later: Mirabelle has eyelashes in some battle artwork, but these three are the only ones specifically with eyelashes in dialogue portraits, which is still incredibly odd.)

SPEAKING HABITS

(EDIT!!! Another Point that is Kind Of Off, in that other characters [e.g. Odile] also do this occasionally. Again, keeping the text for my creative vision.

In return I get to inform you that the King makes the "not so bright, Bright One" pun TWICE in different loops, thus implying the King likes puns. Take this as you will. That's been my psychic damage, buhbyeeee~)

Hey, so, you know when you talk to people in Dormont, a lot of the NPCS will have a nametag that just says "[something] One" right? Daydreaming One, Castle-Loving One, Beautiful One?

And I've seen people wonder, are these titles? Nicknames?

And I bring you this: Siffrin addresses these people with these epithets in his head, because they have no fucking clue what anyone's name is.

So Siffrin just naturally lapses into this style of nicknaming strangers.

Which two other people also do.

Bright one... ...... Do you remember? Traveling one! Are you done talking with your companions? Yes, wonderful, wonderful!

Funny little tidbit that these three characters all speak alike isn't it :)

Okay. With aesthetics out of the way, let's move onto the next tier of this iceberg:

THE MECHANICS OF FORGETTING AND BEING FORGOTTEN

I realize in the process of writing that we must outline the nature of the curse. What gets forgotten and what gets to stay?

The particularity that's important to us right now is: what people get forgotten?

All evidence points toward this: an entire person is only forgotten if they were physically present on the island when it vanished.

I'm pulling up two example cases to prove it: Siffrin and the Daydreaming One.

The thing with Siffrin is: we know he witnessed the exact moment the island vanished. And, very notably, Siffrin was in a boat.

You can get the dialogue that proves this only in ACT 2 in a secret room most people don't find on their first playthroughs, which is both very funny and very evil. Here's the dialogue.

Siffrin: "I ran away from home once!" [...] Siffrin: "And so I took our boat! Got to the beach, rowed away from the shore a bit. I was going to come back right away, I just wanted to scare my parents a bit!" [...]

Siffrin: "I started to row back towards the shore... And then, I... I... ..." Isabeau: ... Sif? Siffrin: (Woah! What?) "Um, yes?" Isabeau: Um... You were telling us how you ran away from home? Siffrin: "I... was?" Odile: You... Were. Bonnie: DID YOU FORGET WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WHILE TALKING ABOUT IT?!?

Siffrin is from the island, but was not physically present when it disappeared. This resulted in Siffrin forgetting their entire identity, including given name and spoken/written language.

Additionally, this is confirmed via Word of God to be the exact moment the island disappeared, so here's proof I'm not reading into it:

Shoutout to bibliomaniac's insane google spreadsheet for the easily searchable screenshot. god bless. Brinny, ily.

On the other hand, with the Daydreaming One, we have proof of a person who is not originally from the island, but was physically on it at the time of disappearance.

Siffrin: "Don't you have a sister?" Daydreaming One: I... I don't? I just said I'm an only child, silly!

(For her to forget someone like her sister, so easily... Her sister must've traveled to...)

Secondly, we know that remnants of the island were not completely forgotten immediately.

Memory faded gradually, starting with the ability to still speak and think about it with accompanying headaches, until it ramped up in intensity and everything is simply gone.

The Sparkling Diary in the library is more or less proof. Memory of the island was gone, but... people still remembered that they forgot something. People still knew what they were talking about, (an island north of Vaugarde), just without the specifics.

"Urgh. Also, Dad noticed no one can say the name of the island north of here anymore?" "I tried to say it yesterday and I got like the WEIRDEST headache for HOURS."

And Odile also remarks the following

Odile: We also know that people could remember that country clearly, before.

This will be relevant later. Moving on.

CONTRIVANCES

THE HOUSE'S OBSERVATORY

SO. The House of Change of Dormont has this funny little room on the third floor. It's an observatory. To look at stars with. When entering this room for the first time, Mirabelle says this:

Mirabelle: What...? Was there a room like this in the House? Y-yeah, I remember! Someone was working here... Studying... They looked like... ... Um... Sorry, I can't remember.

This reveals to us several things:

This room is innate to the House, and not brought here by the King's weird redecorating

Someone from the House was using it for study

All memory of who or what was studying and being studied was erased alongside the island's existence

Of course we can say, "yo, what if Euphrasie was using this room and just forgot?" but that is. a headcanon. I ADMIT! It is a stipulation

However, I find the general presence of the Island written all over the House incredibly interesting.

Inside the Observatory, there's a pile of papers with messy handwriting. You can't read these in until ACT 4. Even in ACT 4, you can't read them. But you do learn what's written on them.

(A pile of papers.) (It looks like someone was trying to write your country's name.)

Inside the observatory is also a globe. Upon repeated interaction in... act 4, i think, you get this:

(You see a spot on the globe where the paint has started wearing out, like someone kept dragging their finger on it.) (You drag your finger there too.) (Erased. You almost want to look for lightless paint.)

BOOKS

During the various quests to discover the truth of the loops, you run into a lot of books, written in the forgotten language. Now, Dormont is not close to the island. Dormont is not close to the coast.

Bambouche is. That's why Bonnie has heard about the island before and knows it was a big deal - they lived really close to it.

Bonnie (and then1): I think, I think my village was really close to it!!! My sister said it was all everyone could talk about for weeks!!! Mirabelle (anxious1): That's so frightening... I'm glad that whatever happened, she didn't get caught up in it!

As we can see in this map, Dormont is in the southern half of the country, and very centrally at that, meaning it has basically maximum distance from all waters and ports. So why does this landlocked small town have so many books in this language?

These aren't just dry books, either. In Dormont's library, there's actually a translated version of volume 2 of The Cursing of Chateau Castle.

(You take the book out again.) (You can read its title, now...) (Your heart is beating, badump, badump, badump.) (It's...) (... A translated copy of "The Cursing of Château Castle", issue #2.) (You start laughing.)

CONCLUSION OF THIS SECTION

Islanders lived in Dormont. Maybe even multiple! We've established that whoever is in Dormont when it vanished would not simply disapper, instead

they forgot where they're from.

One day, the islanders in Dormont could no longer remember being anywhere but Dormont. Being anything but Vaugardian. The observatory fell into disuse, as the person studying there gradually forgot what they used it for, even as they desparately tried to hold onto it, boring holes into the globe, and scribbling its name over and over until its unintelligible.

And, in all likelihood, eventually that knowledge was just gone forever. They simply became part of Dormont, none the wiser to their own history.

Books slipped into cracks. Rooms fell into disuse. Nobody remembered to clean out the remnants.

Now. The real cinch of this.

Why, in particular, do I think Euphrasie is one of them?

Answer me this, then.

How does Euphie know what Wish Craft is?

1. How could she read it?

Euphrasie knew specifically that Wish Craft exists, when all books on it are written in a language nobody can read.

The book in the storage room? The diary in the room behind the star door? The book in the secret library? None of them are legible.

There are no legible records of Wish Craft.

2. What about the Favor Tree?

Euphrasie knew specifically that Wish Craft is related to the Favor Tree. It's also a Vaugardian practice to make requests of the Favor Tree, but they're just that - requests. Nobody thinks they actually have power.

Only Euphrasie does. She thinks it's the key to defeating the King.

(This is... A list of people who wished to save Vaugarde!!!) (You look around her desk, trying to find out more.) (Why would she record the people who wished to save Vaugarde?) (... There!!!) (It's a little notebook, jammed between random boring paperwork...) (In it, the Head Housemaiden talks about Wish Craft... How in the days before the King attacked, she noticed everyone was wishing to the Favor Tree for the same thing:) (To save Vaugarde.) (And she started wondering if this wish could be the key to the King's defeat, somehow...) (So the Head Housemaiden knew about Wish Craft!!!)

Except, when Isabeau talks about it...

Isabeau: Well, it's just a random big tree. But when you're a believer of the House of Change, the biggest tree in a certain place is called a Favor Tree! It's like, it’s the tree with the most power, so you can ask it things? As a favor?

He struggles a little to explain it. Almost, as though the tradition came from some other culture, imported into Vaugarde, and no one can definetely remember where it came from.

To note, here, is that the Favor Tree is hugely associated with Loop, and wishes in general. Wishing on a Favor Tree is such a hugely powerful ritual when executed correctly, that it caused the entire timeloops.

And I'm not even gonna break out citations to prove that Wish Craft is associated with the island. Come on. You know that. You played the game. It's required to beat the game.

If you haven't beaten the game, what the fuck are you doing here. Go back and play it, baka.

3. Something's breaking, failing, rotting

At the end of ACT 4, when Siffrin confronts Euphrasie about her knowledge of Wish Craft, Euphrasie is distinctly aware of this: the people of Vaugarde are wishing wrong.

It's true. All of Vaugarde wished to the Favor Tree, wished for us to be saved. We wished for a savior. A way for us to win against the King. And Wish Craft gave us the means to do it, didn't it? Made sure it'd work? [...] But... But something went wrong, didn't it? Something goes wrong, every time!!! [...] The only answer I can find... Is it's because we did it wrong. I don't know what happened But we must've done it wrong!!! None of us in Vaugarde knew the exact ritual, but-- But we must have done it so wrong, it broke, and it doesn't answer to us at all anymore!!! [...] I don't know, I don't know, I don't know!!!

There's only one person who knew how to make a Wish correctly. And he made it by sheer instinct. Something they could not place even if they tried. Just... a forgotten ritual, dredged back up by muscle memory. Something he's probably been doing since he's a little kid, something that's so backed into their habits they use Wish Craft to carve figurines out of wood.

To end, I leave you with this. Dialogue you get when you try to talk to Euphrasie again, before you talked to everybody else.

If you talk to me... REALLY talk to me... It's all over. What "it" is, I have no idea... I know... I can feel that... I couldn't change whatever comes next, even if I wanted to. But I know it is the will of the Change God. Or, no, perhaps... The will of something even bigger... ... Something will end, once you talk to me.

There is a way for Euphrasie to know all of this. To know Wish Craft exists, to be aware she's doing it wrong, but not knowing, remembering quite enough to get it right.

If she knew it all beforehand already.

[hazelnootnut]

For the Two Sides of the Same Coin au, do you think Siffrin would ever ask Loop why they never give him a direct answer on how to escape the loops if they've already done so on their own?

Oh for sure, Siffrin would have definitely asked. Because if they're him, then why else would Loop be here, if not to help? I don't think it'd be too far out to say that Siffrin wouldn't have thought that Loop just got punted to his timeline and didn't actually solve their own loops. It's too early to be that paranoid, especially since Siffrin sees the loops as a blessing early on until Act 3.

And Loop's witty response to that question is:

Now, I don't think that Siffrin would care about spoilers very much. But assuming that this conversation can take place as early as Act 2, I would say that he reacts differently to Loop's response.

In Act 2, I would say that Siffrin gets frustrated by the response, but Loop placates them by saying that "it wouldn't be fun if you already knew how the play ends!" Siffrin huffs at that but lets it go.

In Act 3 onwards, I would say that Siffrin is more agitated by their response. He would have already questioned why Loop is actually here as per the canon dialogue, and Loop being coy like this doesn't do them any favours. You'd have the choice of letting it go (Siffrin is still frustrated but keeps it inside) or pressing Loop more.

Loop would drop the cutesy facade and admit, via omission of the actual truth, that they're here for a reason, and they can't just do things as and how they like it. Since the Universe put them here to help him, the Universe has its own rules on what Loop should and shouldn't do.

If Siffrin has gotten the ability to use the dagger (he does not need to have used it) via the dagger conversation, Siffrin is more understanding of the situation, since they would have seen Loop possessed in order to even allow him to use it. Otherwise, Siffrin reluctantly understands and leaves it be.

But as we all know, the truth is going to inevitably come out regardless in Act 5.

[joshnekuu]

I'm sure that many people have already talked about this but one of my favorite things about In Stars and Time is how the game uses its mechanics to encourage you to slowly but surely embody Siffrin's mental state and treat their friends like NPCs.

Like it starts as early as the 'zone out' mechanic is introduced, not so subtly encouraging you to skip through scenes you've already experienced. If you're like me, the first several times, you resisted the urge. You know exactly what the game is trying to do and you don't want to treat the gang like skippable cutscenes. These are Siffrin's friends, even if Siffrin has heard this before it's the first time their friends are sharing these words with them, so surely he wouldn't just zone out.

... but after a while, when it's clear that the loops aren't going to be ending any time soon, when you got so close to finding another piece of the puzzle, another step closer to getting an answer... it's hard not to just... zone through a scene here or there. Sure, you stay tuned for the more emotional moments, you don't want to be a dick, but there's really no obvious consequence for zoning out, so... it's fine, right?

The game gives you the option to take shortcuts, and after enough loops, you take them. They're there for a reason after all, right? With a game that centers so much on replaying the same scenes, it's only natural that you would be given the opportunity to skip around a bit. Don't worry about the implications of Siffrin willingly dying for convenience's sake. It's fine.

By the time the friend quests are introduced there's a dawning sense of dread, that eventually, these too will become something that slowly loses meaning, that you zone through or skip altogether. By the time you reach the final act and Siffrin is treating their friends like actors in a play, hurting their friends one by one, it feels earned. Because even if you tried your best not to skip through everything, even if you tried your best to live all these moments as they went by, that's still fatiguing in its own way. You still were just going through the motions by the end, weren't you? Even trying to be 'good' and not skip through things, they still just became another obstacle for you to overcome to reach the end point, another meaningless scene in a play you've performed a hundred times.

And I think that's also part of what makes the ending hit so hard for me. Because no matter how hard you tried to make a 'perfect' route for Siffrin, no matter how much time you dedicated to doing the Friend Quests and making sure you experienced all those little moments in the castle and did all your little sidequests... in the end, those are not the runs you get to keep.

The world that Siffrin finally breaks out of the timeloop in is the world where they hurt their friends. Where they acted like a jerk and said things they can't take back. But even so, their friends still come and save them. Their family still loves them. Their family knows them well enough to know that something is wrong, that Siffrin wouldn't just act like this for no reason. And even if Siffrin fucked up, even if Siffrin hurt people, he can finally move forward. He can finally have new moments and make new memories. The world you get to keep is the world where you fucked up, but you are still loved. And I just think that's so beautiful.

After dozens of loops where you've done everything in your power to try and 'max out' your points with your friends, treating them like NPCs in a video game that you can 'make' like you by doing or saying just the right thing... it's finally breaking that cycle and revealing just how bad things are for them that Siffrin is able to trigger what needs to be done to finally break the loops. Breaking character and being a person instead of an actor, going off the arbitrary script thy have crafted, is what frees Siffrin. The worst possible outcome for them happened, showing their 'true' self to their friends, showing their ugly side and damaging their trust. But the world doesn't end. Their family doesn't abandon them. Everything works out, somehow, some way, because of the power of friendship and love and honesty. And I love it.

[hollenka99]

One thing I really love about Detective Beebo is how the timeloops are, for lack of a better word, dynamic. Nothing stays exactly the same except for the location of the mansion and the 10 characters present on the property.

It means Ángel can only warn Oliver so much. Because sure, don't mess with paintings so Eugene Coli can't stab anyone in the clock room. Maybe don't head for the tower because you could fall despite the railings. Ollie, for the love of god, stop wandering off and giving Coli opportunities to ambush you, just stay close to me where I can protect you instead. Ángel can try to keep his friend safe but there will always be things that have changed.

The main reason for this is of course Coli. By having the antagonist be aware of the loops, even be in control of when a loop ends, it means no two loops will ever be the same. It's like how he takes the keys from the aquarium in Round 2 so it's harder for Oliver to get ahold of them. He is frequently waiting in the shadows. He noticed a handful of people were up on the balcony so he set off the bomb there. Oliver went into the shed when he was presumably nearby so he was able to kill Owen then ambush Oliver, hiding the photobook again.

It reminds me a bit of Edge of the 17th by friight (Spoiler warning since they are kinda unavoidable for what I want to say). In the fic, it is revealed that the antagonist, Dream, remembers the loops too and as such, is working directly against Wilbur's efforts to make the events of the day end with minimal casualties. But of course, with each loop, that's another method of stopping Dream that can't really be used again because Dream knows, he remembers and is able to think of ways to counter Wilbur.

The events within the House of Vera aren't particularly akin to this but the sentiment does stand. Coli knows everyone but Ángel is oblivious to what's going on. He can ambush them with axes or detonate a bomb when a small group is in an opportunistic place. Who cares that one of his targets was outside having a smoke at 8pm? It just means he has to be careful not to permanently kill Ángel but as shown by Oliver's death at the end of Round 3, that's something Coli has to keep in mind for all of them.

Compare this to a static timeloop narrative like In Stars And Time or Groundhog Day where everything is exactly the same every loop, only the protagonist is able to change things. This works well for something like ISAT because it's not actually about beating the King like Siffrin originally believes. It's about how their own insecurities are holding them back and literally making them unable to move on with their life. These types of timeloops also lend themselves to higher loop quantities (I think my Siffrin looped 70-80 times and there are literally articles estimating how many years Phil Connors was stuck in Punxsutawney), as opposed to Detective Beebo where they only loop what, 5-6 times depending on the ending? Which I'd say is typical of the shorter nature of dynamic loops in my opinion.

I would argue Detective Beebo would suffer as a narrative if it had a static timeloop. For one thing, Coli's plan falls apart if he can't remember the previous loops and I doubt he'd ever be satisfied if every time he killed his victims was the first time for him. Even if he was the only one to remember until the end, Ángel being another driving force in the plot would be missing. Just because he fails to save Oliver's (or for that matter anyone else's) life for most of the loops doesn't mean he's not using his consistent memory to help Oliver get closer to the answers. And besides, someone needs to be able to remember or else everyone's just looping endlessly.

Anyway, hell yeah to dynamic timeloops. There should be more of them because they're really fun.

[borfungus]

HI I really like your tangible form designs for the Expressions and the Universe! The Universe especially I thought was really cool with the multiple arms reaching from the void, they really do look godly, like from Hindu mythology! If you have more to share about your designs I'd love to know :)

I tried to keep this short. I failed! MAJOR isat (and also, Slay the Princess) spoilers ahead!!

The Universe-

I have a couple paintings I've done so far featuring 'The Universe' as several disembodied blue hands coming from the void (here and here cw for blood on the first one!)

I took the phrase 'The Universe leads, we can only follow' rather literally! The Universe is an outstretched hand, The Universe is a tight grip, The Universe pushes and shoves and leads and holds.

The phrase "A wish in one hand, dirt in the other" also came to mind! Basically, wishing can only do so much, and you need to apply practical action to reach your goals. There's somewhat of a double meaning if you apply this idiom to Wish Craft. Intention is important, yes (for example, all of Dormont wishing for Vaugarde to be saved), but Siffrin's wish had the power to set off the events of the game because he knew the correct ritual/actions. Also, Siffrin's wish gave them the ability to get what they wanted (to stay with their family), but their lack of action (telling them about the loops) kept them stuck. His Wish was just not enough. And so, this paragraph about an old idiom basically to explain that I picture the Universe holding the Wishes in it's hand, taking the leaves wished on, throwing the shooting stars, and taking the wishes to where they need to go for the wish to be fulfilled.

And it's TOTALLYYY not because I finished Slay The Princess a few weeks ago and saw parallels between The Shifting Mound and the Universe....and I also just liked her design with the arms...thats TOTALLY not the reason (it's at least, not the ONLY reason! Everything above is also true!)

I have to be completely honest now, I totally didn't even think of the Hindu god connection. I will have to do more reading/research on that because I don't want to inadvertently draw something too similar to that (I am so white! I don't know anything about it! It's not really my place to!) without being properly informed!! Thank you for bringing that up lol!

The Expressions - ok this is a lot

This one is based on some Odile dialogue!! (thank you ISAT Script Project thank you thank you) That post was the first time I had drawn The Expressions as a tangible being, but I had the idea clunkin around in my head for a while after I finished the first Universe painting. We know like so little about The Expressions, so I'm going off of these Odile lines;

{ID: Odile: Well... in Ka Bue, you'd burn the body and take the ashes to a Gemmaker to transform them into a diamond, but that won't be easily feasible, will it...}

Gems seem to be pretty important in Ka Bue culture, and I'm making the logical leap that different gems have different meanings. Diamonds seem to be related to rememberance, grief, death, end of life, etc. You're made into a diamond when you die, and this is important enough that there is an entire profession surround it. SO basically- Gems = Important

guess who's about to make another logical leap! ! ME

{ID: Odile: GEMS ALIVE, Isabeau}

We giggle and goof and laugh about crab and stars and crabbing and blinding but I don't see! a lot of people talk about the Ka Bue explitive gems! Each of the 3 country's choice swear ties back to their religion. Crab being a reference to carsinisation/carsinization (Everything becomes a crab, and it seems to be against the Change belief for everyone to be the same) , The Universe religion is all about Space and Stars and the Space between us etc etc, and we've already established gems are important in Ka Bue culture! This is potentially a fun Ka Bue version of "Sakes alive!", which is sort of like "For God's sake" / "Goodness sake". It's funny but, what if, we take it a little too seriously hmmm? What if, in Ka Bue, they really do consider, Gems to be Alive? Isn't it quite interesting how they are then turned into diamonds at death? Is it the belief that people's Spirits continue to live on in diamonds?

I can't find the specific dialogue about there being thousands of Expressions, but Odile explains that there are Expressions for everything, and you can choose which ones you want to pray for at a time. Odile has a few she mentions she prays to - "The Expression of Search, the Expression of Writing, the Expression of Creator Craft, and lately, the Expressions of Battle and Victory" I belieeeeve the gems Odile wears on her glasses are the Ka Bue way to Pray to the Expressions. It seems like gems are the connection between humans and divinity in Ka Bue, I'm going to make the assumption these are NOT diamonds, I'm not sure Odile would wear the remains of someone as,,, an accessory. That doesn't seem like her

So different types of Gems, are potentially, connected to different Expressions? What if each Expression is represented by a specific Gemstone? (In real life, there are only like 300 types of gemstones, but, but, but MAYBE!! The CUT!!! Is also PART OF IT! ok)

So each Expression is represented by a different Cut and Color of Gemstone. I'm going to connect these Point Cut Quartz? to the Expression of Creator Craft. It's the same shape!! As the gem decal!! on her book!

So ALL OF THAT TO SAY OMFG, that is why I made em different Gemstone types and cuts. Each individual gem is an Expression.

(also, i tried to tie it to Expressionism as an art movement, but I think I didn't do such a good job at that.)

THAT WAS SO LONG!!! I got carried away! hope that answers that LOL

[mmikmmik]

When Mirabelle chews Siffrin out in Act 5, she actually does correctly touch on a huge issue in their relationship that's prominent from at least Act 3 and arguably present before the loops.

From the ISAT script project (emphasis mine):

Mirabelle: Is something wrong, Siffrin? Did something happen? Did you have a nightmare or something? Siffrin: No, of course not. Mirabelle: Then what happened, Siffrin! Because clearly something did happen!!! Otherwise, i-if nothing happened, I'll have to accept the fact that I was wrong about you!!! Siffrin: (Huh…?) Wrong about me…? Mirabelle: . . . Mirabelle: You always tease me, Siffrin. And it's fine. Everybody does. I guess I have the kind of personality where it's easy to want to tease me. But I know people don't mean it. It's how-- It's how some people make friends. And I thought it was the same for you. I thought, "It's okay, they don't mean it, it's how they are. They tease me, but they're never mean. And Siffrin never really hurts me." "Would never really hurt me." Mirabelle: . . . Mirabelle: But now you have, Siffrin! Thinking I should be alone… Telling me I should be alone… Who do you think you are, to say this to me? Acting like-- Like you know better than me!!! Always soooo mysterious, Siffrin, always talking as if you're better than me! As if you know me!!! But you don't, Siffrin!!! You're just as lost and useless as I am!!! So stop!!! Talking!!! As if you know me!!!!!!

I think it's easy to miss because so much of what Mirabelle says is off base. Because Siffrin insists "no, I really did just decide to suddenly undermine your self-confidence and trust in me out of nowhere for no reason, on the day before we're supposed to fight the King together", Mirabelle goes off that premise and rants that they must never have really cared about her or their mission. Obviously untrue. I think even Mirabelle's dialogue here is hinting that she knows on some level that this is one of her deep insecurities coming to the surface and it makes more sense if something did actually happen that Siffrin is refusing to explain.

But it is true that Siffrin acts superior sometimes. At the start of Act 3, Mirabelle sees him freaking out after his first meeting with Euphrasie and tries to comfort him. She sees through multiple attempts to laugh it off or deflect her (i.e., lie to her); she coaxes them to talk to her, she begs them to talk to her, and finally gently but seriously tells them that the group needs to trust each other and share their worries. And Siffrin's take-away from that last tactic is... "[I] know why she's asking [me] this. Poor Mirabelle can't just say it, so [I]'ll have to do it for her..." and asks Mirabelle what she needs help with, to Mirabelle's visible and uncharacteristic frustration. What condescension! Siffrin was being way nicer about it when he was in a better mental space, but he was basically doing the same thing Mirabelle correctly accuses him of doing in Act 5.

To be fair to Siffrin, they seem genuinely confused in Act 3 when Mira is trying to convince them to share with her, so I think it's more about them being repressed and inexperienced with friendship than an ego thing. But I do think ego is part of it, if only in an "I like myself better when I'm making Mirabelle happy" kind of way. Whatever's going on internally, the bottom line is that Siffrin is not treating Mirabelle respectfully as his adult peer and friend.

Of course Act 5 Mira doesn't remember that Act 3 conversation, so given how she described the behavior, I'm guessing Siffrin has done this sort of thing occasionally before the events of the game. And I think you can see some similar behavior in earlier acts. Siffrin worries a lot about saying things that might have upset or embarrassed Mirabelle, and a lot of their non-plot-related dialogue variations I can think of are trying to be more encouraging towards her. That's more of a grey area, though - I'm not sure I disagree with him doing stuff like faking enthusiasm for the sleepover idea or calling her plant cute. It's kind of a red flag in the context of everything else, but I can't really blame him for it. Even if these issues were fully present before the loops, I think Siffrin and Mirabelle could have worked past them without having to have a really awful fight like that, if Siffrin wasn't falling apart so badly. I really, really like their resolution to be "feelings buddies" as a conclusion to this character arc - yeah! opening up! mutual trust and reassurance! willingness to be vulnerable with each other! Good for them!

[lucabyte]

hello

is this how your peopls work. i am obsessed with your comics and the panel layout and the way they react to eachother and sdgafkhgfdhsagfha s i very desperately need to have a grasp on how you see them in their dynamic and interacting and i feel like i don't know as much about how isabeau and loop be interacting but i am so so so so SO curious as to how that goes and how they feel about eachother pre-"i'm a former siffrin" and post-"ok you know who i am"

oh hell yeah a diagram we love a diagram

but yeah i'd say you've gotten my interpretation of the dynamic down pretty solid??

in general i think my instinct with loop-isabeau interactions is a lot tamer/calmer than others ive seen, my reasoning for why being hmm... i think i can note my core 'things im keeping in mind from the text' here

isabeau's line in act 6 remarking that loop seemed 'shy'. for all of loop's bravado @ siffrin (and thus the player's pov), they are still siffrin, so while it can be easy to percieve them as this loud bombastic personality-- there is this textual reminder that them acting this way is probably due in part to being up against siffrin, someone who won't speak unless spoken to (and thus loop takes the initiative, and is also presumably reveling a bit in making them uncomfortable and annoyed, inkeeping with their self-hatred and self-flaggellation) this to me reads as a reminder that they'd probably retreat into their shell hard when presented with other people- the party included. so even if i can see them trying to undermine their relationships with others, i think it's probably more on the insidious 'insulting siffrin to make the party protective of them' side, because that also feeds into 'proving' that the party only cares about one siffrin and that loop can be replaced. meanwhile isabeau has shown that, even with a vicious jealous streak, he can mostly keep a lid on it. he's the most emotionally intelligent of the group, and would probably be able to suss out loop's self-harm-via-getting-people-pissed-off-at-them gambit relatively simply given how obvious it is. also isabeau is not immune to insecurity-- and would probably let loop take some precidence over their relationship with siffrin because 'well i cant compete with the guy who actually went through All Of The Timeloop With Them.' because like... damn how are you supposed to do that. loop understands their pain better than isa ever could, and it would show in their fucked up unspoken understanding of each other (because how is Isa to know thats because theyre the same guy, and not just because the timeloop traumabonded the fuckers baddddly. which it also did.).

timeloop stressful as fuck. absolutely has both of them on tenterhooks the whole time. we visibly see how it affects siffrin (despondance & mania & aggression), and we see SAPfrin be very. very very despondant. so it would seem to me that loop is basically in a perpetual state of mania, given how sif's internal monologue begins to resemble their way of speaking (with the tee hees and such) when they are clearly broaching into manic states. one can assume that if you take loop out of the Torment Nexus, while they probably wouldn't faire well, all of the tension and pressure that's holding them up would collapse, likely putting them more depressive again by default? Of note, whenever i write loop's dialogue (which im told i do well? i will be honest i kind of feel like that's far too high praise.) i initially write it as very blunt and pissed off-- and will afterwards go back in and Maybe change wording to be more 'silly', but mostly i just add tildes~, italics, exclamation points and laughter to the pissed off dialogue without changing the actual content of it?

loop likes their friends! They are fucked up in the head about it (badly!!!) but they like their friends! They still care a lot, and can barely even hide it a little bit with their aloofness in game. it feels redundant to even try pointing out where they slip up because its everywhereee. They de-person their Actors because theyre the same lines over and over and over, but you see in SAP alone how any break from the script makes them overwhelmed with emotion, and how devastated they are if that deviation occurs a second time and becomes predictable (dying to the king after triggering the requisites for the true end, forcing you to go through it again). BUT!! You take their friends out of the timeloop and let them be New Unpredictable People again? I genuinely find it hard to believe mx siffrin "i love my friends so much id explode the world about it" nolastname would be able to see that and just go "nope im emotionally disconnected i can keep being a bitch to these guys forever". like no theyre gonna slip into being at least neutral no matter what. even if it's in a quiet depressive state when the mania wears off.

my biggest deviation from frequently observed fandom things here i think: i think loop doesn't actually believe that ISAT!Party are 'replacements'. they rarely if ever word a sentiment like this. this is something the fandom goes for because the horror of being replaced wholesale probably WOULD make it easier to cope if you considered those people to Not Be Your Real Friends. But loops WHOLE act 6 spiel? 'THEY WERE MINE FIRST. I LOVED THEM'? (paraphrased) they obviously desperately want to be with them again, and know they're the same people. The Fighter/Defender discrepancy clue is mostly metatext here-- since Loop never acknowledges the defender title-- just calling ISAT!Isa Fighter-- because they are the same guy. Your Fighter. They even call them Fighter in the "You got memory of X, your Fighter will now..." dialogues! Which are practically system dialogues! So. they see these isabeaus as the same. And while I would not put it past them to come up with the "they are different, my party is Dead" thing to Cope... I do think it is a delusion, plain and simple, and that I think any post-knowing-the-truth party would probably shut down weird rituals ive seen the fandom propose (often in a cute way??? it makes me feel insane?? like the concept of loop 'memorialising' their 'dead' family is not cute its nuts. they are being nuts. its like actively feeding into an extremely maladaptive coping mechanism. sorry this is like a massive sidebar but like. Yes i do think this is something loop might do if left unchecked. but it should not be presented as sane or rational? it outright undermines the themes of the game to treat the concept of 'Loop's party' being 'dead' as 'True'?? There's like several points in the game where Loop and Siffrin express that things that happened in the loops Still Happened even if the party dont recall it-- which is why their actions-- being cruel or doing 'experiments' still hold weight and can be Wrong. That it's tragic that the party will never remember but that their forgetting is NOT a pass to do whatever with no consequnce (experiment, bad touch, etc). It follows that by Nixing all of "loop's party", treating them as seperate, in some way implies loop's memories are Lesser and what they did "doesn't matter as much", which is antithetical on account of being contradictory to however you take the stated theme. PLUS... The game and Paratext are clear that there is One Timeline. SAP is in the same contiguous space as ISAT-- it is effectively just that on the loop between SAP and ISAT that we the audience dont see-- loop ate that star and when the loop restarted there were two of them. for all intents and purposes one can intuit that Loop 0 of isat and SAPfrin's first loop are legitimately identical from sif's POV, as Loop does not reveal themselves until Loop 1. BUT YEAH GIANT SIDEBAR OVER. THIS WHOLE READ OF THE TEXT INFORMS MY THOUGHTS RE: ISALOOP AND RELATED CONCEPTS VERY GREATLY)

jesus christ i wrote a lot in the above um. sorry. i dont know if its intelligable. uh. good luck?

im also on team 'orrery book and sif's thoughts about it belie a real deep-seated brainworm' re: their response to a Cautionary Tale About How You Will Inevitably Kill Your Double seemingly being "Nah, we'd be besties."... like. i do think it is. funny. and not particularly Unbased. Given how they are. For siffrin and loop to specifically be compelled by how they are the same guy. And i think that there's a lot to be mined from 'Both of them are convinced that the party knowing who loop is would fuck up everything badly, so they're going to great lengths to conseal this' played in tandem with '... they are like. very much explicitly doing things together that are directly related to a feeling of shared ownership over siffrin's body and form & the fact they are The Same Guy'. like it is a hysterical setup to me and i think is only added to when you have to put Isabeau in the middle of this polycule also. With the few exceptions of times ive drawn stuff specifically hinging on characters Knowing Who Loop Is (which is like. all bonnie-centric stuff so far? i think?), i take a lot of care to try and make their exchanges Vague as if they are worried about being overheard or saying something that's too much of a smoking gun. But also it's really god damn funny to think about how concerning some of those things could sound the vaguer you make them. Remember that above all i live and die by The Bit. (... as do they.) ie basically because im powered by The Bit thats why i focus more on the sloop side because its like. actively Funnier and more drama filled. or at least presents oppertunities for such. i feel like on isabeaus side here its kinda frequently like

yknow ? (oh god my formatting is broken now) . i DO very much think it can become like. niceys. of course. i think they can just be normal fucking throuple eventually (though if i'm going that goddamn far into the future u may as well partycule the fuckers 2 me. by the time theyve solved whatever the fuck you call pre-reveal isiloops i think odile has gotten involved at the very least. but this is why i mostly keep myself to the realm of 'the mostly immediate post-game conflict' stuff since i think all these characters leave off the end of the game with such solid springboards for arcs set up (clearly intentionally) that the infinite realm of possibilities opens up too wide for me to be comfortable with.) anyway i keep thinking about the tragicomedy of isabeau finally finding an "in" to nurture a friendly bond with loop by comisserating and steeling themselves for changing again even though it feels like a betrayal of their previous actions/beliefs and how fucking funny the idea of 'loop reveal but theyre like 2 weeks into using she/they' is. just like you get all the way through the horrors of 'oh jesus christ the timeloop was even worse than we thought it was' but now '.. d. do you still . what pronouns do you want?' is tacked onto the end. Sorry did you hear something . must've been the wind. anyway . this ask is a fucking mess i hope its readable like at all . can you tell ive been brainscramblied for six weeks

TL;DR:

yeaghj you got it. its not like im doing anything revolutionary im just trying to stick as close as i can do what i percieve the characterisation is in canon & thus generally dont tie down any of my fanwork to specific post-canon-plot-concepts. its all just nebulous extrapolation set 'pretty close to the end of the game because i think these characters are going to grow and change extremely rapidly once the game is over given how they're all intentionally poised for character arcs when the game ends'. but also you should put isabeau in the worst social bind of all time with two of the most mentally unwell BPD OCD havers youve ever seen and let him try to figure out the balance of 'be gentle' and 'treat them like the almost-30-year-old adult they literally are' while he also balances his own set of entire life changes it'll be fine he'll be fine (someone should probably check on him)

[sillylittlecharacters]

I am obsessed w/ your comic!frin au (& just comic!frin in general. there are no fics for the comic on ao3 and it is killing me), PLEASE ramble at me about it.

Hello!! Thank you!!! I'm so sorry it's taken me so long to see this!!!

Please please please feel free to send me more asks about this!! anyone!! everyone!! this post got really long under the cut but i can keep yapping for days!!

For anyone who hasn't seen my original post, this is an fic that I'm planning to write (in the distant, D I S T A N T future) about Comic Siffrin. They're the Siffrin from the original comics that the concept of In Stars and Time and Start Again: A Prologue was developed from! A proto-frin, if you will. Apparently they're still stuck in the time loops and that makes me vividly sad.

Ma poor fully grown adult baby. they are significantly older than me. Someone save them.

*ahem. * BIG SPOILERS FOR IN STARS AND TIME.

The base concept for this au (which is absolutely subject to Change!! don't trust me with anything) is that Comic!frin is the 'first' Siffrin, or at least the 'first' Siffrin stuck in a timeloop.

And when they hit their breaking point, instead of wishing for 'someone, anyone to help me!!' and turning into an astronomically themed guide for another Siffrin, they wished for 'someone, anyone to take this responsibility, this fate, this life away from me!!'

This had its consequences.

Unlike with Loop, where the differences between ISAT and SASA:AP universes are minor, there are a LOT of differences between this version of Siffrin and the ones we're more familiar with. The biggest one being, of course, that they alone are the Saviour of Vauguarde.

How did that happen?

Well, Comic!frin actually knew the Head Housemaiden personally before the Royal Court attacked, and when the group of villains began to freeze Vauguarde in time she enlisted their help in finding mcguffins around the country. But Euphrasie's travels meant that there was no one to protect the House of Dormont from the Court's attack, and she went in to face the group alone. Vauguarde's greatest warrior, capable of reversing time craft.

But she didn't leave before crafting a few... plan Bs.

In the end, even she wasn't enough to defeat the combined might of the Royal Court. But there was one last hope, one last blessing that the Change God bestowed on their people. Siffrin, the Saviour of Vauguarde. Not just able to reverse time craft, but completely immune. Or... that's what the people believe.

Yeaaaaaaah, the blessing that Comic!frin received wasn't a gift from the Change God: it was Euphrasie's back up plan. A fail safe for the worst case scenario; an experimental manipulation of Siffrin's wishcraft; true, she couldn't replicate her immunity, but what better guarantee of victory than being able to erase your failures?

Than a time loop?

It was still Comic!frin's wish that trapped him in the Loops, that much stayed the same, but it was Comic!Euphrasie who made sure the wish would be interpreted by the Universe as forming a time loop. Which is why, in the comics, she actively 'sends them back' once they've won - Comic!Euphrasie has much more control over the loops than in ISAT. In her defense, she hoped that it wouldn't be necessary to activate in the first place.

But why does she send them back? How does she know so much about wishes in the first place? And how did Comic!Frin and Phrasie meet??

:)

Wait, Royal Court? What happened to the King??

The Royal Court are this au's main villains, and the ones freezing Vauguarde in time. There are five true members of the Royal Court, each ranging in levels of humanity, and their twisted and contorted 'Pawns' that replaced the game's Sadnesses are completely inhuman, despite their shape. They have their... own reasons for their actions.

As for the King? let's just say he isn't a member of the Court. Our tearful tyrant did exist in this universe, but he isn't involved in freezing the country. I wonder why...

It's a fun reversal of the power dynamic of ISAT - instead of one big bad facing off against a group of plucky heroes, there's one player character against a boss rush, Mario Style!! If only there was a multiplayer option...

More about Comic!Frin!!

I mentioned this on some of the replies to the previous post, but the imagery surrounding Comic!Frin is no longer theatre based, but game based! Funny silly worldbuilding thing, but every time the universe gets reset because of a powerful wish like wishing an entire country out of existence, the timeline gets pushed back, and technology and society becomes more advanced. Comic!Frin has access to technology (in theory. on account of the whole apocalypse making xboxes a lil inconvenient) and sees his life as a videogame. As well as being grounded in the language used in InsertDisc5's comics, I just think it's funny that the one Siffrin who isn't a game is obsessed with them. Comic!frin?? More like Gamer!frin.

This is getting really, REAALLLY long, so I'll keep going on a different post. There's still so many concepts to touch on, like what this version of the party are up to, Comic!frin's saviour complex, more about the Royal Court and their motivations, Loop, and if birds still go 'Piou Piou'!

Spoiler alert - they totally do.

If you managed to get to the end of this (if so you're an absolute madlad) please please please feel free to send me more asks or questions or even make your own ideas!!! that would be awesome!!!!

[artofmyraid]

(Ha,ha edited the post and tags cause I accidently posted it early and there is no art yet!, it's not finished!)

One of the perks of being an artist, is that when ideas like this Ghost!siffrin au eat at your brain you can draw them!

Oh, and there are two of them now, one possessing their body and one who is just a ghost. (I had too many ideas for both, and i couldn't pick just one to focus on, lol.)

Under this read more, I shall give a huge info-dump on my two new blorbos~

So! Some facts about ghost siffrin who has possessed their dead human body. I dont have names to differentiate ghost siffrin and possessing their body siffrin, so this one will be possessed!siffrin for now, name pending??? this one is definitely aware he isn't human. They don't quite know their a ghost that died and possed their dead body, just that they definitely aren't a human! Their very desperate to pretend they are still human, so their more obsessed with appearing "normal." They get verrrry anxious when people point out their oddities, especially ones they can't fix (like how they just dont age, despite never using body craft, how young they look despite claiming to be an adult, and I dont just mean that their short, (in which their almost bonnies height) but that they look like a child, no older than a teenager. )

Fun fact, possessed!siffrin can barely taste food! Darn those dead taste buds! For that reason they tend to lean very heavily towards foods with a lot of taste, like more spice than the human body should be able to withstand, I think they'd even like certain foods near charred just so they can taste them.

Then the other one, that's ghost siffrin, and he has a VERY different experience than possessed!siffrin , for he doesn't know he is a ghost or inhuman.

So they mostly go through pre-canon normally, where everyone do notice some...oddities. like if you look too close at siffrins skin they seem almost transparent? Or how they almost seem to faintly glow at night... not to mention the weird dripping sounds... Isn't siffrin terrified of water?

Anyway, when the time loops start, that's where things get REALLY interesting. Cause Ghost siffrin has to deal with both the time loops and confronting the fact that their a ghost that died! All those weird oddities from before become harder to ignore, and the more siffrin notices them the more their human disguise falls apart.

In my opinion, the form of a ghost is all about their perception of themselves. If siffrin thinks he is human their human. But if siffrin thinks too much about being a ghost... things get weird.

...Like during one loops snack time, thinking too hard about being a ghost, they start to wonder where the food they've been eating goes and this time... the food falls right through them instead of being consumed.

Or during bad touch... well, they might just phase right through :)

Wow! This was long. If you read all this, you are a saint.

These two have eaten away at me, I love both changing the time loop events and changing pre-canon! There are so many more ideas that I haven't touched yet, I have so much for both of them. they're so different despite being based on the same concept

(The art will be finished soon, lol, my bad)

[biblicallyaccuratecrow]

in stars and time but ghibli movies au braindump

nobody fucking asked for this but it's been plaguing me for weeks and i need other people to think about this with me

IDEA 1: Howl's Moving Castle x ISAT

I mean, come on.

Isa is Sophie. Listen. A hat shop? the themes around changing and transformation? learning to love someone who believes they don't deserve to be loved? Seriously. its perfect.

Sif is Howl. Self explainatory, but I'll talk a little more about it later.

Loop is Calcifer. Also self explainatory. If you know then you know.

Bonnie is Markl. I need more Siffirin as a mentor figure for Bonnie.

Odile is the Witch of the Wastes. Definitely not the same characterization as in the movie though. Don't think too hard about it I just didn't want to make her Turnip Head or something. Plus I think it's a funny idea that Odile does all that shit to Siffrin bc she suspects he did some forbidden magic shit. Basically Witch Hat Atelier.

Mirabelle is Sophie's sister from the verrrry beginning of the movie. she can be more included in the plot because I fucking said so. Maybe she would meet up with Isa when they settle back into the original town?

The King is Madame Sullivan. I have not been able to get the scene where she says "let's show your mother what you really are" out of my head beacuse. it's so so so much like what siffirn fears. also turning her followers into weird blob monsters? its sadnesses for real it works too well

Siffrin as Howl has been knocking around in my head for a while. A few things to note:

The hair dye scene. Siffrin's hair starts out black, and then turns white after. Initially it seems like it's a vanity thing, but their reaction is more because they're afraid of being seen as different.

Howl is a big crow thing. Odile has a cut line where she calls siffrin "little crow". do i really have to explain.

The "dream" sequence where sophie goes to find howl after he comes home injured. "Tell me what's wrong so I can help you!" "You're too late!" like. FUCK. it's them. it's them it's them it's them...

Actually pretty much any sophie and howl scene from the last act of the movie, in particular the one where sophie tells howl to run away... and howl says that they won't because they've finally found something they wanna protect,,,, bc they have a family,,,, ough,,,,,

i yearn for funny kinda isaloop moments (HE LIKES MY SPARKKK)

do i really gotta say it. the opening scene of isat. Loop's wish. eating the fucking star the entire fucking opening of this game is a howls moving castle reference-

there's a lot more i could say about this one but i also wanna talk about my other ideas....

IDEA 2: Castle In The Sky x ISAT

hi, I love castle in the sky, am definitely normal about it, have definitely not made prior aus about it for totk, definitely not

Siffrin is Sheeta. just a random guy with special powers who came from a sky (star) centric civilization that has been forgotten by everyone? yeah. yeah that's. yup.

Isa is Patsu. not much to say there, just. they share a lot of similarities. except isa has more braincells. Also the idea of engineer Isa workin on the planes is enjoyable to me.

Odile is Dola. Listen. I need pirate Odile in my life. I need it with my whole body and soul. She would be wonderful. So full of piss and vinegar.

Mirabelle and Bonnie are members of Odile's crew, they got picked up along their journeys. Mira is there? because she's running form the secret police (Muska/The King ig)and Bonnie is there bc Nille is a mechanic who basically keeps the whole ship running

Muska is The King. There's not a lot I gotta say about this, other than Muska is genuinely the most terrifying Ghibli villain ever and is the reason why i watch this movie in dub (thank you Mark Hamill), so a lot of the conversations surrounding Laputa kinda remind me of the country

The Lost Country is Laputa, enough said, an entire country that has been forgotten by seemingly the entire world with technology and magic that is so powerful that it could quite literally lead to the destruction of humanity, yep yep yep

i also like the thought of the giant gem in the center of laputa being a star...

Misc ideas that I haven't really fleshed out as much:

Princess Mononoke: Siffrin is San. Isa is Ashitaka???? i guess???? Odile is Moro, Bonnie and Mira are the two unnamed wolf gods. The King is lady eboshi. the universe is the forest spirit, and triggers the red shade when it's head is severed. the kodamas are the little change god statues.

Spirited Away: Siffrin is Haku. the forgotten name, the loss of identity, the badassery... they've got it all. Bonnie as Chihiro, if you make it weird it's ON SIGHT, uhhhh loop as Kaonashi/No Face, The King as Yubaba, Euphrasie as Zeniba, Odile as Lin (I LOVE THE IDEA OF ODILE AS LIN WITH MY WHOLE SOUL, where is more hurt/comfort of odile and siffrin MY GOD-), beyond that i have zero idea who mira and isa would be ;w;

anyways yall have fun with this one

[str8rat]

WHAT IF THERE WERE 'LOST SOUL' ( AKA UNDERTALE STYLE ) ENCOUNTERS IN THE ISAT/FUNGER AU?????

-> REMIND

( You ask the Lost Soul to remind you of a word you've been searching for, trying to pretend being annoyed with your memory issues. She's not sure why, but she feels urged to jog your memory.. )

-> TIME CRAFT

( You remind the Lost Soul of when she used Time Craft to stop you from looping back. Her fist seems to clench on her side. )

-> MEMORY OF SECRET QUEST

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've spent searching for a Familytale. You remind her of the conversation you've had, about searching for a home, about feeling "other". Suddenly, the memories are flooding back..! )

-> PUN

( You say a really terrible pun. The Lost Soul seems to love it, quickly bursting with a loud, infectious laughter. Something about this seems so very familiar to him.. )

-> TOUCH

( Hesitantly, you reach out towards the Lost Soul, trying to take his hand. He seems to become nervous, his hand becoming clammy in your own. His fingers twitch. He seems to be remembering something.. )

-> MEMORY OF STARGAZING

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've spent Stargazing. You remind him that you have never, ever been ashamed of him. Not even a little bit. Suddenly, the memories are flooding back..! )

-> POINT

( You point to the Lost Soul's nails, trying to mimic the same motion you always do when she's anxiously biting them. Somehow, this seems familiar to her.. )

-> CHANGE

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've met the God of Change. She doesn't know why, but she feels an odd, bitter feeling in her chest at the mere mention of the God. )

-> MEMORY OF FAITH

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've spent together on that bench in Dormont. You remind her that she doesn't need to change for the sake of her fate, if she doesn't want to. Suddenly, the memories are flooding back..!)

-> RECIPE

( You ask the Lost Soul if they'd like to make malanga fritters together. For some reason, they feel giddy at the thought. )

-> HUG

( You hug the Lost Soul carefully. They seem to stiffen in your hold. They're not sure why, but they really want to hug back.. )

-> MEMORY OF TRAINING

( You remind the Lost Soul of the time you've spent together, training in the outskirts of Dormont. You remind the Lost Soul, that they don't need to feel guilty for things that are out of their control. They are loved, and they're doing enough as it is. Suddenly, the memories are flooding back..! )

- - -

DID ANYONE THINK OF THAT??? I couldn't stop thinking about this. I'm not re-entering my undertale phase again please not again

Ok so this is still in relation to my Fear and hunger / Isat AU, so bear with me here. What if Loop's battle didn't only consist of fighting them? Maybe they've come to know some sort of forbidden craft, which stole the party's memories? Kind of trying to erase their memories of "Siffrin", and instead enter "Loop" in it's place. Since Loop doesn't want to, nor can, be Siffrin anymore- if they actually manage to kill Siffrin and insert themself instead of him into the timeline, they can live with their identity as Loop, with the party already loving them, having no memory of Siffrin. There would only be Loop. And then Loop could finally be happy, and have their family back.

And well everyone knows how it goes, Siffrin enters a battle with each of the party members, which is interesting i think, since we've only ever fought Sadnesses in canon Isat (not counting the king) Picturing the party attacking Siffrin would be awesome lmao. I also really like the idea of the memories we gain from each party member's hangout actually having more of a role rather than just being buffs or skills to learn.

here the memories of their hangouts are essential to jog their memory, and also i feel like it would be kind of cool if it granted them like the ability to remember those occurnaces, even though they know now that it didn't actually happen. not in this loop anyway. With them being aware of the loops by that point in the story, and aware of the hangouts happening countless times before in other loops, they would realize just how hard Siffrin tried to grow closer to them. I feel like that would tighten the party's ties together. so yeah, cool.

Siffrin jogs all of their memories, which causes them to either pass out or fight alongside them. i think the latter would be worse for loop though, having those people fighting them. It would hurt them a lot.

well, I still think Siffrin would fight Loop alone and everyone else would be passed out. I like to keep the 'Loop wins the fight' as the canon outcome here, with Loop not being able to bring himself to kill Siffrin after everythin that happened. Siffrrin comforts them, Loop cries, Siffrin cries, Loop fades away, the party soon wakes up and confronts Siffrin on what had happened, he passes the fuck out from craft exhaustion before he can explain anything. WOO

hope this made sense cuz it's like 2 am and my brain is NOT working rn