#like first it was bi lesbians in the form of “you're the reason men harass lesbians”

[thee-radio-host-is-a-kookaburra]

[rjalker]

Hi, so I am so sorry if this bothers you but I thought you might be the right person to ask. I am so so SO confused on the whole mspec lesbians discourse. And the bi and pan and other lesbians. What does it mean? Is it like a split attraction model thing? Or something else entirely? Thanks a lot if you want to explain and trust me, this is completely genuine i truly have no idea what’s it all about

It's no problem at all!

I've made a few posts answering this before, so I'll link them here. 1, 2, 3, 4

I don't blame you for being confused, exclusionists go out of their way to lie about what it is so that they can make people angry!

First off, to get the most common lie exclusionists tell out of the way:

Mspec means "multi-spectrum", aka, "attracted to more than one gender".

Mspec is an umbrella term that encompasses bi, pan, poly, omni, and any other multi-gender attraction labels!

Mspec lesbians are simply lesbians who are attracted to more than one gender!

And as exclusionists try to force everyone to forget because they're transphobes, nonbinary people are not women. If you are attracted to women and nonbinary people, you are attracted to more than one gender.

Exclusionists are transphobes, though, so they keep insisting that "being attracted to women and nonbinary people doesn't mean you're attracted to more than one gender" because they are equating nonbinary people with women, almost certainly because the hypothetical nonbinary people the exclusionists are imagining are AFAB.

It's literally just transphobia.

Anti-mspec lesbian (and note that they almost entirely focus their harassment on mspec lesbians, not mspec gays, because these people are blatantly misogynists and they know targeting lesbians in particular would be easier than going after all mspec gay people) people are equating sex with gender, and since they think there are only two sexes, that must mean there are only two genders, and to make themselves sound like good people, they say "lesbian attraction has always included nonbinary people!" while they're lumping nonbinary people in with "women".

Mspec lesbians can use the split attraction model (romantic attraction to some genders, sexual attraction to others, other forms of attraction, ect), or they may just be more attracted to some genders than others.

In the end it just means that they're a lesbian who is attracted to more than one gender. This does not inherently mean they're attracted to men, because nonbinary people exist, and there are countless nonbinary genders, but even if an mspec lesbian is attracted to men, there's literally nothing wrong with that.

Mspec people are allowed to call themselves gay, and they're allowed to call themselves lesbians. The only reason "Lesbian" is seen as such an exclusive term while gay isn't is because of literal TERFs and lesbian separatists who think men are evil and inherently dangerous.

People are repeating literal TERF rhetoric and trying to pretend that it's okay for them to do it because reasons, even as they are actively being transphobic and erasing nonbinary people.

There's also the part where the majority of people who identify as an mspec lesbian or as mspec gay are also trans, but exclusionists don't care about that, all they care about is attacking people.

Their favorite talking point is that mspec lesbians are the reason men assault lesbians, and if I have to explain why victim blaming that is literally quoting the same exact shit misogynistic men say is bad, there's just no hope. If you argue that women who are attracted to men (which, as a reminder, is literally not what mspec means) are the reason men assault women, you are a misogynist and a rape-apologist, even if you try to dress your argument up as progressive and friendly.

It's once again misogyny, and once again TERF rhetoric, since part of their whole thing is that men are inherently dangerous and predatory and women who are attracted to them get what they deserve.

Lesbian has always included mspec lesbians. You can literally find art and poems and comics and newspaper articles about mspec lesbians from history. I've relogged several, so if I find them, I'll edit the links into this post.

Oh, just found one of them, here you go. The comic is from 1999, and there are poems from the 70s that I can't find at the moment.

TLDR: Exclusionists are being transphobic, victim blaming, repeating TERF rhetoric, and erasing queer history so that they can attack people who have literally always existed and aren't hurting anyone, because they have nothing better to do with their time.

Please feel free to add on more info if I forgot anything.

Exclusionists don't interact at all, you will literally just be blocked and reported.

[eemamminy-art]

yknow, i dont get you bisexuals. you have a whole twitter dedicated to nsfw yaoi content... you're not a lesbian if you're attracted to males. we aren't attracted to them real or made up. it's how we are wired. you're not a lesbian, you're bi. it's okay to be bi. it's okay to call yourself bi. we are fundamentally different and that's OK.

Three anons in a row! It's pretty funny how mad you are considering you're reading me all wrong.

Yeah I do have a m/m nsfw account. What makes you think I draw nsfw of men for my own enjoyment? You really think I'm drawing it to get off? You must not be an artist yourself. When I see a nude form generally I shut off part of my brain and just observe the form. A lot of artists do this, when for example drawing nude models in the studio. I do, out of my own volition, choose to draw gay male ships at times, but it's not because I'm attracted to either party or wish to be involved somehow. I just relate to homosexual couples and oftentimes there are more opportunities for male characters to have chemistry. And like most artists who make nsfw, I am catering to my audience. It's also why I separated my nsfw accounts, so that I can please one half of my audience without alienating the other.

Which brings us to what I was ACTUALLY venting about last night! I was trying to be vague because I don't want anyone to think I'm mad at them, but let me be explicit. I'm very fond of a particular character. Said character is male, but oh how I wish he were a woman instead. I like to imagine his backstory is the same but as a woman he struggles so much more to succeed and achieve things because he's in a fantasy/medieval society. I was relentlessly bullied on twitter for the last two years over it and called pornsick, cumbrained, "weird and suspicious" for drawing sooo many genderbends of him. It hurt my feelings! But suddenly, people are like "actually what if he was a woman, what if he was a butch" and really getting positive about it! And I'm salty because I feel like all the harassment I got and all the art I made of that particular thing is invisible and it just feels bad.

The ENTIRE issue is that I have been made to feel like I'm gross because I want to change a male character to female, and the reason I want to change him is because I am exclusively attracted to women. Both irl and in fiction! I ship male characters for the relationship intimacy being relatable and pleasant, and the feeling of it being like a safer way to consume homosexual content, and for the fact that male characters have the luxury of being able to interact in media in the first damn place. I would genderbend more gay ships (and het ships for that matter) to lesbian ones if I didn't get so much shit for it, and now I guess I'm being misinterpreted and getting shit anyway!

I'm sure you will go on believing I'm a liar and that's fine. I know how it looks, because I do dare to draw men while not being attracted to them whatsoever. But I know I'm a lesbian and have never, and will never, be attracted to any man whether real or fictional.