#lily hollister

[hellomystraightlacedfriend]

The Osborns' 'Weird' Relationship: An Analysis

◇ Spectacular Spider-Man #146 - Gerry Conway/Sal Buscema ◇

Okay, so I know it was awhile ago that I said I might write an analysis of some of the emotional dysfunctional aspects of 616 Norman and Harry Osborn’s relationship, but I really struggled with the format and how I was going to present this.

One thing that I ended up having to do was throw out any speculation on the writers' intent. With comics, you have so many different writers - especially with a long ongoing, popular series like Spider-Man - that I decided to focus a lot more on the patterns I was picking up when I was reading.

But before I go any further:

CW: discussions of child abuse, mental illness, and suicidal ideation

Disclaimer: In this analysis, I am trying to provide an explanation for why Norman might behave the way he does. However, this explanation of Norman’s abuse is not meant to be a justification of his behaviour.

Also, before we start, you are absolutely allowed to disagree with this analysis! Every reader sees/interprets things a little differently, but I've seen other people pick up on the Osborns' relationship being well, strange, so I decided to examine that a little closer.

There were certain things I kept noticing in Norman and Harry's relationship that I found abnormal (you know, apart from Norman's extensive verbal abuse). Things like: Harry's really intense and misplaced loyalty to his father (that interfers with his other relationships.) The way in which Harry feels responsible for his father. The way Harry doesn’t have a strong identity outside of his father, and how his father doesn't allow (or think Harry needs) any emotional privacy. Also, just some of the ways Norman talks to his son don’t make it feel like a normal parent-child relationship.

In particular in this analysis, I did want to talk about emotional incest and enmeshment, which I am going to define now.

The psychological definition of emotional (or covert) incest is when a parent relies on their child for emotional support that they should be getting from another adult. They treat their child like a friend or partner, instead of well, a child.

And

An enmeshed family is one where there is a lack of boundaries, and often, the child isn't allowed to have an individual identity.

I think we see a lot of the after affects of this kind of emotional abuse in Harry as an adult, and while we don't see a whole lot of Harry and Norman's relationship dynamic when Harry is growing up, I do want to start from there, using what flash backs and other information we have.

Actually to give some background on why this kind of abuse occurred, I will go back a bit further than that and talk briefly about Norman’s childhood and his relationship with Harry’s mother.

Norman definitely didn't have a great childhood. His father was a bitter and abusive alcoholic who blamed all of his problems on other people, including his son. And while Norman's mother wasn't abusive towards him, she did fail to protect him. This betrayal from an early age from both his parents would have been a huge contributer to Norman's extensive trust issues (and his drive to be in control so he's not hurt again.)

Norman didn't get the emotional support and attention he needed while growing up, so that's really what he was seeking as a young adult, and he found it in Emily Lyman aka Harry's mother.

Now while I don’t think that Norman and Emily's relationship was perfect like he presents it to be, I do think from his point-of-view this was a great time in his life. He was finally out from under his father's thumb. This beautiful woman believed in him. They had their whole lives ahead of them. The possibilities were endless, and then - she died.

Or faked her death and left him because he was so controlling.

Either way, she was gone, and he still a young man was left to go on as a single father.

Interestingly, Norman both blames Harry for Emily's death and compares him to her. Much later in his life, when talking to Harry's grave, Norman says that he tried to be fair to Harry 'even though you were so much like your mother in so many ways.' In this scene, Norman is angry at Harry for dying and thus 'abandoning' him to be alone. And I think that's what Norman felt when Emily died too, this deep sense of abandonment.

◇ Spider-Man: Revenge of the Green Goblin #1 - Roger Stern/Ron Frenz | Peter Parker: Spider-Man #44 - Paul Jenkins/Humberto Ramos ◇

(Later, it's revealed that Harry is not dead. Or maybe he is. I am NOT getting into the whole post-OMD-Harry-is-a-clone mess. For the sake of this analysis, they are the same person. They would have the same memories anyway.)

Now I am going to be piecing some things together and doing a bit of speculating. One thing that always stuck with me is that Harry keeps saying that his and Norman's relationship used to be different, that they used to be 'pals,' and then something changed. While I know a lot of people dismiss this, become Harry is delusional about his father at other points, I do think when Norman became the Green Goblin, there was a shift in their relationship dynamic, and Norman stopped opening up as much to his son.

I still absolutely think Norman was a neglectful and preoccupied father, but I also think that Norman was an emotionally needy person, and once Emily died, Norman (who was most likely extremely depressed and lacking a support system) tried to have Harry meet some of those needs. I say tried to, because Harry was just a little kid, a baby, and he wouldn’t be capable of doing that.

I think a lot about a panel from Spectacular Spider-Man #178 where Harry is talking to his own son Normie Osborn. Normie is a very young child/toddler. While Harry is talking to Normie, and Normie is watching TV, Harry starts hallucinating that his father is in the room. (Both Harry and his father have had psychotic episodes.)

Norman tells Harry that Normie should be listening to Harry, and when Harry says that Normie is just 'a little guy' and 'doesn't really understand all this,' the Norman Sr. hallucination becomes angry and says that Harry was just the same. That Harry was lost in his own head when he was young, and couldn’t hear when Norman talked to him.

◇ Spectacular Spider-Man #178 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema ◇

It's interesting the way Norman and Harry differ here. Harry wants his son Normie to be able to enjoy these early years and have this chance to be carefree. Whereas Norman doesn't seem to really understand the concept of childhood and childhood innocence.

I also find it interesting (because I'm obsessed with word choice) that both Norman and Harry use 'pals' to describe their relationship.

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #39 & #40 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. ◇

And just in general, Norman and Harry's relationship doesn't seem to fall into the typical parent-child relationship - where the parent takes care of the child and meets the child's emotional needs. Instead, it's more complicated and codependent.

Norman and Harry both view Norman as Harry’s provider and protector. Norman is abusive towards Harry, but he does show deep concern about Harry's safety and worries about what would happen if he (Norman) suddenly died - because he's afraid Harry wouldn't be able to fend for himself.

On the other hand, Norman really doesn't give Harry any tools to become independent or encourage a separate identity, and I think part of that is because subconsciously - as much as he keeps saying he wants Harry to be strong - Norman actually wants Harry to be dependent on him.

Like on one level Norman does want Harry to be strong and be able to think for himself, so that he can take over the company and continue the Osborn legacy (and he is angry at Harry and verbally punishes him for not living up to this). But on a more personal - and like I said before subconscious - level, I do think that Norman wants Harry to have to rely on him. Because Norman doesn't want Harry to be able to leave him. Because he doesn't want to be alone.

And that's the thing, I do think that Norman is also dependent on Harry.

Harry is the nurturer to his father's protector and provider. He cares for and worries about his father a lot, and as much as Norman does not like to be seen as weak, there are quite a few moments where we do see Norman be vulnerable around his son.

Why this happened is probably largely circumstantial. Norman is a very paranoid man, who constantly fears betrayal from those around him. Even with the other adults in Norman's life who he is 'close' to - like J Jonah Jameson and George Stacy, he is not open. He does not trust them. He thinks that people are conspiring against him. However, he doesn't see his young son as a threat, as someone who could turn against him and hurt him. And he pulls Harry into this emotional isolation with him by telling his son not to trust anyone but his family (anyone but Norman.)

◇Amazing Spider-Man #62 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Amazing Spider-Man #47 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Amazing Spider-Man #67 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr. || Spectacular Spider-Man #200 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema◇

That puts Harry in a very difficult position, because he has deal with these adult concerns at such a young age, and he also can't fully open up to anyone else. This strain, along with Norman's exacting standards and scathing criticism, puts a lot of pressure of Harry.

However, Harry is used to being his father's confidant, and he becomes extremely anxious if his father shuts him out - or worse if he doesn't know where his father is. In a way, as much as Harry says that his father is strong and great, I think (at some level) Harry must also see his father as (emotionally) fragile.

This is especially noticeable in Amazing Spider-Man #121, where Harry is supposed to be resting because he has just overdosed, but he can't because he's so worried about how his father will react to possible financial ruin. He goes to him, tells his father that he doesn't need to worry about him, that he can take care of himself, that he's just worried about his father. He then proceeds to collapse in Norman's arms because he is not well.

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #40 - Stan Lee/John Romita || Amazing Spider-Man #61 - Stan Lee/John Romita Sr., Don Heck || Amazing Spider-Man #63 - Stan Lee/Don Heck, John Romita || Amazing Spider-Man #121 - Gerry Conway/Gil Kane ◇

This collapse leads Norman to want to rid Peter Parker/Spider-Man from his life (by killing Peter), because he falsely blames Peter for Harry's drug overdose and also the collapse of Osborn Indistries.

Now Peter’s involvement in the Osborns' personal lives is interesting. Peter is the first person that Harry really opens up to outside of his father - when Harry breaks down and complains that his father had been very distant in the last few years. When Peter responds with the emotional support Harry had never gotten from Norman, Harry draws Peter further into his life by asking him to be his roommate. Harry’s demeanour toward Peter also becomes similar to his attitude towards his father, submissive and eager to please. (He even calls Peter 'sir' at one point when he's trying to get his attention - an address he uses towards his father.)

Peter, however, is so caught up in being Spider-Man that, like Norman, Peter often neglects his relationship with Harry. This leads Harry to be rather passive-aggressive. At one point, Harry offers to make Peter breakfast, but when he hears Peter locking his stuff up, he becomes insulted that Peter would think he would steal from him and storms off to see Norman instead.

This becomes an ongoing element, Harry being torn between Norman and Peter, and seeking love/support from both of them, but seemingly unable to get it.

Now I want to make it quite clear that Norman and Peter are not equally responsible here. Peter is Harry’s age and has troubles of his own. Norman should be acting as Harry’s father, but he really isn't, not emotionally anyway. He is meeting his son's material needs (to an excess), but he is emotionally neglecting his son while also emotionally burdening him with his own troubles. Plus Norman is constantly verbally berating Harry for failing to live up to his impossible expectations - leaving Harry feeling worthless and extremely depressed.

Harry takes drugs to cope with these negative feelings - first abusing prescription medication and then moving on to street drugs. There is even already a note of passive suicidal ideation here, as when Peter asks him how many pills he's taking, Harry's response is 'What’s the difference? Who counts?' (Amazing Spider-Man #97 - Stan Lee/Gil Kane.)

Now I refuse to believe that Harry doesn't understand that there's a possibility of overdose here: he's a chemistry (and business) major with a father who sells drugs for a living. He knows that it is a possibility. So, while he's not actively seeking to end his life, he also doesn't really seem to care if he lives or dies - as long as he can escape from his pain.

Harry does eventually overdose - and it's an overdose that leads Norman to go after Peter & also Peter’s girlfriend (and Harry's friend) Gwen. Norman blames all of Harry’s friends for his condition, but especially Peter. And Norman blames himself for failing to protect his son from them. He threatens to kill Gwen if Peter doesn't end his own life, and when Peter doesn't comply, Norman goes ahead with his threat - throwing Gwen Stacy off the George Washington Bridge. (Amazing Spider-Man #121 - Gerry Conway/Gil Kane.)

Peter (as Spider-Man) goes after Norman in revenge, and Norman ends up dying (albeit by his own glider and not Peter’s hand.) Harry eventually figures out that Peter is Spider-Man, and this leads him to think that his and Peter’s friendship wasn't real, that it was entirely a ruse on Peter’s part. That Peter was just getting close to Harry to close in on his father.

Harry ends up forgetting about Peter Parker’s secret identity after his first attack on Peter though, and so for years the threat of Harry's revenge remains dormant. However, even from 'beyond the grave' (Norman, um, kind of faked his death, but Harry didn’t know that) Norman still had a hold on Harry’s psyche.

One early warning sign of the return of Green Goblin might have been that Harry names his child both after his father and himself (Norman Harold Osborn), keeping their names (and identies) close together. Harry also tells young Normie how special a man his grandfather Norman Osborn was. Then Harry begins to hear his father's voice telling him to revenge his death, to kill Spider-Man/Peter Parker.

Harry goes back and forth on how he sees his father. At times, he is able to see his father as who he really was/is, a dangerous criminal who ruined his own life. However, at other points, he calls Norman 'wonderful' and 'the greatest man this world has ever known.' He claims that his father's spirit is in him fuelling all his efforts, and blames Peter for both Norman's and Gwen's deaths.

Of course, it would be hard for anyone to admit that their father killed one of their closest friends, however, I think with Harry it goes even beyond that. Because Harry doesn't have a solid identity outside of his father, he is unable to fully see himself and his father as two separate people. So, in his head, Harry can't admit that his father killed Gwen, because then he would also have to think that he killed Gwen - something I don't think that Harry can wrap his head around doing. It's easier then to blame someone else - Peter/Spider-Man.

When Harry does finally admit that Norman killed Gwen, he still absolutely thinks (pretty understandibly) that it was Peter who ended Norman's life. Because of this, Harry decides that both he and Peter would be better off dead - and that their deaths would protect their loved ones from further harm.

It is only an outpouring of unconditional love from Peter (something Harry had never really felt before) that sways Harry from ending Peter’s life. He carries Peter out of the building where he had set up a timed bomb, but then seemingly dies himself (from side effects of the serum he'd taken to make himself stronger.)

🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻

Break!

🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻🌷🪻

Okay, this is here because this is getting long, but I don’t want to make it a two-parter, but also sometimes people need to take a break and breathe, you know?

I will also be concentrating more on post One More Day Harry in this section, though referring back to earlier comics as well. I will also be talking more about sex and romantic relationships, and how Harry's focus on his father (and Norman seeing himself as the most important person in Harry’s life) complicates things.

The Dan Slott and Joe Kelly runs leading up to and during Dark Reign were the first Spider-Man comics I read, and these were the issues where I first got to see the Osborns' relationship on page. What really struck me then about the relationship was how Norman talks to Harry more like a separated spouse than his grown child: 'I need you,' 'the world could be ours,' 'come home,' 'your place is here, by my side.'

During this period, Harry is pulling away from his father and trying to be independent, and Norman does not like this at all. He mocks Harry’s business ventures, then bombs Harry’s place of business - almost killing Harry’s then girlfriend Lily Hollister in the process. When Harry goes to confront him, Norman says that girlfriends are replaceable and tries to win Harry back. This, however, does not work, and shortly following this, Harry goes no contact.

Norman will not accept this boundary, however, or any boundary really. He admitted earlier to recording and listening to all of Harry’s therapy sessions, and when Harry won't answer his calls or letters, Norman has people spy on his son and report to him on everything Harry is doing. He then gets himself invited to a wedding that Harry is attending.

This is when he tells Harry that he needs him, something that does visibly affect Harry. Peter steps in between Harry and Norman, and tells Norman 'and that's what therapy's for.'

This scene is interesting because Norman does not like admitting that he needs other people, but also because Peter doesn't consider this (entirely) as a ploy on Norman’s part. He does think that Norman is being honest about 'needing' Harry. He just thinks that the way Norman seeks support from his son is unhealthy.

There is also an 'us'-ness in the Norman-Harry relationship, that is more typical of couples. This along with how Harry is thrust into this nurturing role with Norman, makes him (at times) seem more like his father’s spouse than his son.

And when Harry and Norman do end up cutting ties, Harry even says: 'I was never your son.'

◇ Amazing Spider-Man #573 - Dan Slott /John Romita Jr. || Amazing Spider-Man #595 - Joe Kelly/Phil Jimenez || Amazing Spider-Man #598 || Writer: Joe Kelly/Artists: Paulo Siqueira & Marco Checchetto || Amazing Spider-Man #599 - Joe Kelly/Stephen Segovia, Marco Checchetto, Paulo Siqueira ◇

This relationship with his father - before the eventual break up - does also lead to problems in Harry’s romantic relationships.

Because Norman basically sees himself as the centre of the universe and because he is very possessive of the people around him, Harry grew up internalising this idea that he belongs to his father and that he should prioritise Norman above everything else.

And because of this, Harry does tend to elevate and choose his father over his other relationships. Like how when he was seeing Mary Jane Watson, that relationship ended because Harry wouldn’t unlock the door for her - choosing to be alone with his dead father's costume over being with her. His marriage with Liz also deteriorates as Harry obsesses over avenging his father's death and continuing the Osborn legacy.

Of note, in these moments Harry isn't exactly thinking clearly - there are definitely signs of psychic breaks, with Harry having delusions and hallucinations. Still, a huge part of Harry's psyche is consumed by his father - to the detriment of other aspects of his life.

Even after Harry sees Norman as a bad person (acknowledging that his father was Gwen's killer and knowing for sure that Norman has committed countless other heinous crime), Norman still has a hold over his son. Harry still holds out hope for winning his father's love and approval - and completely dismisses his then girlfriend Lily Hollister's encouragement and support. Instead focusing entirely on his father's criticisms.

◇Amazing Spider-Man #595 - Joe Kelly/Phil Jimenez || Amazing Spider-Man Family #4 - J.M. DeMatteis/Val Semeiks || Amazing Spider-Man #390 - J.M. DeMatteis/Mark Bagley◇

◇Amazing Spider-Man #126 - Gerry Conway/Ross Andru || Spectacular Spider-Man #189 - J.M. DeMatteis/Sal Buscema || Amazing Spider-Man #569 - Dan Slott /John Romita Jr.◇

Another thing involving Lily Hollister - a rather controversial decision - was to have her be in sexual relationships with both Harry and Norman Osborn (with the timing being so close together that the paternity of her child was called into question.)

I actually don't think it's so surprising that Norman would go after someone his son was seeing. He is very self-centred and delusion enough to think that he could somehow get away with it.

Also, back in Amazing Spider-Man #96, there was this whole thing about Harry bringing along Norman to watch the girl he was then seeing - Mary Jane Watson - dance. It kind of comes across like Harry is trying to impress his father with how hot his 'girlfriend' is, and Norman is quite publicly enchanted by her.

There is something similar in the Raimi adaption where Harry Osborn wants Mary Jane Watson to dress in black (like Harry’s mother/Norman’s wife used to do) because he wants Norman to be impressed by her/find her attractive. Which people have pointed out is kind of weird/creepy.

Also kind of weird is just how much empathy Harry has towards Lily Hollister after she ditches him for his dad. Like yes, I think it's a coercive relationship, and Norman is much more to blame, but I still think most people would be a little more angry in this situation. And what Harry does say to Lily at the start of her and Norman's relationship is very interesting to me:

'He's an amazing man, Lily...I know, and he takes very special care of his "nice things"...until he doesn't.

I hope you see him for what he is before that happens...

Because when Norman Osborn is through with you, no one gets to have you.'

One) because it's really quite strange to call the father you suspect is sleeping with your ex-girlfriend 'an amazing man'

Two) because the way Harry is saying this makes it seems like it applies to both her and him. The 'I know' in particular stands out, because what he seems to be saying is 'I know exactly what you are feeling/going through right now.'

Which given that she is in 'romantic' relationship with his father certainly raises questions.

◇Amazing Spider-Man: Extra! #3 - Joe Kelly/Dale Eaglesham || Amazing Spider-Man #96 - Stan Lee/Gil Kane◇

In any case, I could probably write more, but this post is already more than long enough. I just find the dynamic between Norman & Harry Osborn fascinating because I don’t think it's one we see as often in fiction, and I love reading about dysfunctional families/relationships.

I also find post-OMD Harry really interesting, because I think it's even rarer to see a person, who was in a relationship like this, have to move on, fully cut ties, and figure out how to build a life for themselves without this person (who they had such codendency with.)

[why-i-love-comics]

Cult of Carnage: Misery #4 (2023)

written by Sabir Pirzada art by Francesco Mortarino, Java Tartaglia, Dono Sanchez-Almara, & Fer Siduentes-Sujo

[oliveroctavius]

Thoughts on Lily Hollister?

Oh man, I've been thinking about her a lot recently. She's from a period of ASM that I do not always like or understand but she fascinates me as a character.

I remember my first impression of her and Carlie being a cynical "Okay, MJ and Gwen 2.0". I still think she was introduced as part of a "back to basics" push to assemble a neo-CBG, but I have no hard feelings there. Parallel civilian drama is always a plus in a Spidey comic and they are quite cute.

But—as a big HarryMJ fan—this isn't really a rehash. (And not just because Harry is now also meant to be a ditzy glamorous party guy.) MJ was just a teenager dicking around while Lily's non-party goals are political and focused. Note that this "love triangle" kicks off when she realizes Peter is an insider at a paper that opposes her dad. I wasn't reading the letters, but—surely someone guessed Menace's identity the moment "he" turned out to be backing Hollister, right?

She's definitely pulling Harry's strings on the politics side, but isn't emotionally avoidant and spends a lot of private time with him. (If we believe her later, worry about his well-being triggered her origin story.) It seems fair to say she appreciates familial devotion.

ASM #586 is my favorite flavor of Spidey Reveal. The villain is someone we knew and almost trusted, and when we look back the seeds of motivation are there, paralleling our protagonist for dramatic tension! Your dad whose reputation you're curating loves your roommate more than you, you say? He always wanted a son, you say?

There's a deliciously Lady Macbeth flavor to this whole speech.

That which hath made them drunk hath made me bold. What hath quenched them hath given me fire. My hands are of your color, but I shame To wear a heart so white.

Come, you spirits That tend on mortal thoughts, unsex me here And fill me from the crown to the toe top-full Of direst cruelty!

"Okay, you won't be jealous?" she asks seemingly genuinely, in a voice so deep and a body so muscular that everyone has he/him-ed it up until now. The ongoing goblin theme of violence = power = masculinity is blinking neon here. Obvious jokes about Harry's taste in women aside: what kind of philosophy does a woman have to have to be attracted to what the Osborns represent, thinking she's special enough to not be chewed up and spit out?

And she does say she still loves him! You could read that as a manipulative lie, but to me it's more interesting if she does like Harry in her condescending way.

After all, she seems to love her dad similarly, going behind his back to "support" him in ways he'd never want.

It's too bad that this super-intense characterization of Lily is mostly only retrospective. ASM #588 and the jig is up.

Hie thee hither, That I may pour my spirits in thine ear And chastise with the valor of my tongue All that impedes thee from the golden round, Which fate and metaphysical aid doth seem To have thee crowned withal.

It's very possible that the gender element is writers being weird about a black woman as a love interest. (I have a whole thesis on how Black side characters are compared/contrasted to the Osborns somewhere.) But I believe that just a little weirdness can add flavor. It seems significant that Menace, as Lily's fantasy of power denied to her, reads as a nonblack male, as though she hopes that becoming an Osborn will grant her whiteness, too...

Unfortunately, I don't think anything has lived up to that reveal. It kind of feels like nothing has even tried.

[sighs extremely deeply] American Son. Throwing out her whole villain speech to have her bear a super-soldier goblin son for Norman to use as the next Real Osborn.

Macbeth once says to Lady Macbeth:

Bring forth men-children only, For thy undaunted mettle should compose Nothing but males.

But that's right after Lady Macbeth says she'd murder her own baby with her bare hands if it was personally politically advantageous. Why is Lily "if you want something done right, steal your man's role and do it yourself" Hollister now an obedient heir-producing accessory? And that to a guy she beat the crap out of in ASM #571 for being a waste of rich white dude advantages?

We have gone all the way to the other side of Weird. Where did her jealousy and personal ambition and all the weight behind it go? Where's her guilt for ruining her relationship with her father for good? Why is she calling Norman "babe"?

Origin Of The Species (ASM #642-6) makes some attempt to reconnect to the original character threads with the whole friend group banding together to deal with the fallout of Lily's decisions.

But she still feels mostly like a plot device, and her guilt is more wet blanket than "out, damned spot" levels of satisfying. (She jumped to murder to bolster the name of someone who would never have wanted that! Are we ever going to come back to that part!)

Protecting her child from Norman should redefine her allegiances, but she just... got dragged back to bit-part appearances as an accessory to whichever goblin is the biggest deal at the moment. And got memory wiped for a while and became a black cat ripoff.

I feel like this wouldn't have fallen so flat if Bill Hollister hadn't vanished right after her reveal. Did he ever know about his grandson? A severely underrated element of the classic CBG is how many of their parents/mentors knew each other independently of the kids. The larger web of political + financial + circumstantial connections meant that interpersonal family shockwaves stuck around after the first arc, doubled back, mirrored each other in interesting ways. These should've! This should've.

God this post got long. TLDR crazy first arc that nothing else has even remotely lived up to in my mind yet; it would have to follow up on her bonkers family relationships and deeply jealous personal philosophy (or whatever's left of it).

[jihef03]

Actually pretty fun that Norman Osborn, a macho guy, gets a fairly androgyneous alterego.

Meanwhile Roderick Kingsley , a character most thought was gay upon his introduction, ends up creating a bulkier, more intimidating persona.

And Lily Hollister, a beautiful young woman, gets turned into an old strong guy.

[candyfaesdigitalboutique]

Could you redesign Lily Hollister's Menace (goblin form) design? Important: She looks male in this form, Joe Kelly forgot she looked and sounds male.

So this was a ROUGH start haha 🤗 finding references for this character was a bit difficult, as google search results made it hard to find which design was made by who. So! I did the easy thing, and just mashed a few together. I’m not well versed in the marvel universe, so I ask for future requests to give me the character, then request the style you have in mind!! I prefer to know what you want to see!!! But I hope I did some kind of justice, however if not, I don’t regret learning about a new character!

[theopolis]

Marvel really done fucked up by not mining the Osborns for more family drama post OMD. And I don't mean the Goblin kind, but rather grounded stuff like Liz and Harry being divorced co-parents I know they're back together but I've chosen to ignore it and Harry trying to re-establish a bond with Normie and Stanley having a whole other mom who uhh probably cares about seeing him again some day?? And even the weird Emily Osborn is alive twist that could have given further insight into Harry's abandonment issues and his parents' relationship to each other. This bunch could have carried their own soap opera

[doyouknowmarvelcomiccharacter]

[comicwaren]

From Cult of Carnage: Misery #005

Art by Francesco Mortarino, Victor Nava, Belardino Brabo, Java Tartaglia, Dono Sánchez-Almara and Ceci De La Cruz

Written by Sabir Pirzada

[hoardlikegoldenirises]

have been meaning to actually draw this out for a while, in fact the original sketch for harry and his parents is from... last year? the year before? not 100% sure. and the rest i added on today (and liz is copy-pasted from a different drawing i did a while ago 😂)

Teeechnically I would say this only applies to the alternate timeline I have w/ the gang which means idk if lily and stanley would actually show up or not (or even normie tbh) (i haven't thought that far ahead lmao) but if they did they’d look like this

but.... since i draw harry like this all the time regardless of what universe it's for it probably just applies in general lmao

(update: i have thought that far ahead now and they do show up; also greater context for the ol’ au and emily’s role in it is that i’m not running with the betrayal plotline in 616. in this context she actually tried to leave norman and take harry with her when harry was a baby but norman got custody (and a restraining order) and told harry she died. in actuality she’s been alive the whole time and after norman dies she kind of just appears unannounced while harry is unfortunately in the midst of a crisis but eventually i want them to reconnect)

[albertonavajoart]

#Spideytober Day 20: Carlie Cooper, created by Dan Slott and Joe Quesada

[hellomystraightlacedfriend]

Secret Invasion: The Amazing Spider-Man #3

Brian Reed/Marco Santucci

[why-i-love-comics]

Cult of Carnage: Misery #5 (2023)

written by Sabir Pirzada art by Francesco Mortarino, Victor Nava, Belardino Brabo, Dono Sanchez-Almara, & Ceci De La Cruz

[earth90214]

laura harrier as lily hollister does anyone see my vision

[jihef03]

Norman hates women so much his Goblin Serum *will* turn you into a guy no matter what gender you are.

[kitausuret]

I'm soooooo normal about Lily Hollister and how she was treated by the narrative in post-OMD Amazing Spider-Man, I'm fine, this is fine, I 100% do not have barely repressed simmering rage about her I'm FINE. 🙃

[firelance2361]

The Cabal (Earth-4339)

Here’s another part of the Oliverse I’ve been working on: the twisted versions of its heroes and villains known simply as The Cabal.

This version of The Cabal reside in the dystopian universe of Earth-4339, a dark parrallel universe to the Oliverse created by an catastrophic event known as the “Midtown Massacre” that took the lives of several innocent civilains and heroes in New York, spurring the Oliver Osnick of this universe, corrupted by a powerful relic called the Siege Perilous, to prevent any criminal or terrorist activity before it happens. A goal he plans to see through with the aid of his Perennial Army (Symbiote/Cybernetic-Hybrids) and his inner circle of those who either agree his views or side with him out of fear for their survival.

Members of the Cabal:

Oliver Osnick/Cadaverous

Jane Lane/Blight

Peter Parker/Carnage

Charlotte Witter/Spider-Slayer

Quentin Beck/Mysterio

Elias Wirtham/Supercharger

Lily Hollister/Demogoblin