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samasmith23 · 8 months

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We need to talk about EssenceOfThought's ongoing bullying & slander campaign against Rachel Oates...

I normally don't make posts covering this kind of stuff since I mostly try to keep my Tumblr blog here relatively positive and cheerful. And I normally try to avoid YouTube drama in general. But recently I've become increasingly frustrated and angered by the behavior of a certain YouTuber whom I regrettably used to be a fan of awhile back known as "Essence Of Thought" (aka, Ethel Thurston), whom in the past 2 months has been continuously releasing multiple videos & shorts which slander and defame another YouTuber named Rachel Oates. I know that Rachel herself is currently trying to combat this situation and has even filed multiple claims against Ethel's videos, but I felt the need to try and show my support for Rachel by help signal-boost her story in response to Ethel's revived targeted harassment campaign against her.

Content Warning: Mentions of Transphobia, Cyberbullying, Self-Harm, Suicidality, and Child Abuse.

Also, while this post is going to be very critical of Ethel and her conduct, I will NOT tolerate any misgendering or deadnaming of her! Just because I think Ethel is a bad person does NOT excuse any transphobia that is directed at her, and I will immediately block and report anyone who engages in such reprehensible behavior!

Section 1: Confessions of a former fan, or my personal falling out with Essence of Thought

For those who are not aware, Ethel Thurston is a transgender atheist content creator who regularly produces video essays analyzing and criticizing TERFs and the broader far-right. This content greatly appealed to me as both a supporter of trans-rights and as someone who vocally opposes both TERFs and Neo-Nazis. However, exactly 1-year-ago I unsubscribed from Ethel's channel when she began made a series of videos accusing Lily Orchard of being a child groomer. While I do agree that Lily is an AWFUL person who has received multiple credible accusations of sexual abuse from both former partners and even her own younger sister Courtney, Ethel's videos which accused Lily of "grooming all minors in her audience" were actually heavily criticized by several former victims of Lily's abuse who have argued that the way Ethel & her editor "ABirdCalledLevi" (aka, Levi) presented their information against Lily was not only overly inflammatory, but only served to misrepresent and damage the testimonies of her other victims.

Specifically, critics like "Patchwork Heart" (aka, Shiloh Conner) took serious issue took issue with Ethel & Levi's constant liberal usage of the word "grooming" to describe Lily's actions towards individuals like Glade, who accused Lily of encouraging him on her Discord to watch a livestream where she repeatedly flashed her audience (Glade was still 17 at the time of this incident). Essentially Shiloh stated that while Lily was undeniably guilty of sexual harassment, neglectful misconduct, and indecent exposure, her behavior technically does not qualify as "grooming," since "grooming" is a term specifically meant describe the gradual breaking down of a victim's boundaries through manipulation and isolation from others (online it's usually conducted through private DMs rather than on public servers like Lily's channels). Furthermore, Shiloh and other fellow victim's of Lily's abuse also criticized Ethel & Levi's usage of the phrase "parasocial audience grooming" to argue that Lily was grooming her ENTIRE audience instead of individuals, as "parasocial audience grooming" is NOT a legally or medically recognized term, but was instead invented by the commentary YouTuber "Korviday" in 2020 to describe Shane Dawson's sexually abusive behavior towards several underage members of his audience. Essentially, it's impossible to groom an entire audience all at once since grooming is defined by the specific and deliberate targeting and manipulation of individuals in private or isolated settings with the intention of eventually sexually abusing them. But when criticized for the way they badly mishandled the testimonies of victims like Glade, Ethel & Levi instead doubled down by not only continuing to misuse the word "grooming" in their videos, but actively smeared and defamed their critics and other victims of Lily's like Shiloh as "abuse/groomer apologists.” Ethel even went as far as to compare Shiloh criticizing how she misrepresented Glade’s testimony to “defending Harvey Weinstein.”

Like... YIKES!

I'm not going to lie... when I saw the way Ethel & Levi actively bullied and slandered other victims of Lily Orchard, I was deeply disappointed and disgusted. While I was already starting to grow weary of Ethel's tendency to overly moralize in her arguments, and I knew she was unpopular in a lot of online spaces, for the longest time I tried to give both her and Levi the benefit of the doubt since I knew she had been harassed by TERFs like Graham Linehan past simply for being an outspoken non-binary trans-woman online. But the way Ethel bullied people like Shiloh Conner was simply inexcusable! And personally, I completely agree with Shiloh's criticisms against Ethel & Levi. Even though I dislike Lily Orchard and think that she's an abusive scumbag, spreading misinformation about issues as serious as CSA only serves to inflict further harm onto the people that Lily has hurt. Victims like Shiloh have very publicly stated that they either want their testimonies to be reflected as accurately as possible, or not at all. And I especially understand their concerns about misusing the word "grooming," especially because of how that word in particular has been so easily co-opted as an anti-LGBTQ+ slur by Republicans and the far-right in the past 2 years alone, which only serves to promote bigotry and obfuscate actual instances of child sexual abuse (Ethel claimed in their video that they "saw no harm in extending the definition of the word" BTW). Here's a link to Shiloh's video responding to Ethel if you want further details on the ways in which both she and Levi so badly mishandled the testimonies of Lily Orchard's victims BTW:

So how does Rachel Oates fit into all of this exactly? Well...

Section 2: Reevaluating Ethel's past conduct and the targeted bullying of Rachel Oates

Once I witnessed the ways in which EssenceOfThought bullied and smeared the victims of Lily Orchard's abuse, it honestly caused me to reevaluate and question a lot of their past content, especially because Ethel & Levi already had reputations of being overly inflammatory figures who've burned tons of bridges with lots of other leftist YouTubers. It was then that I was reminded of the biggest controversy Ethel's been involved in, and one I was only tangentially aware of before the Lily Orchard drama. That being Ethel's 4-year-long and currently ongoing defamation campaign against feminist and atheist British YouTuber, Rachel Oates.

The conflict between Ethel & Rachel all started back in 2019, when Rachel's friend and former atheist YouTuber "Rationality Rules" (aka, Steven Woodford), got into serious trouble when he posted a video arguing against the inclusion of trans-people in sports (which relied on heavily fallacious scientific data and even cited clips from Fox News, Ben Shapiro, and Joe Rogan). Unsurprisingly, the backlash against Woodford's video was enormous, and it even resulted in him being deplatformed from hosting a panel at an ACA conference in Austin, Texas that same year. However, a lot of Woodford's friends within the YouTube atheist community, including Rachel, argued that Woodford did not make his video out of intentional malice or bigotry, whilst fully agreeing that it was a terrible poorly-researched video that did serve to reinforce transphobic narratives even if it was unintentional. This led to Woodford not only delisting and demonotizing the original video, but also releasing both an apology and retraction video to try and help mitigate the damage his original video caused.

Ethel however, refused to accept Woodford's apology and retraction, and made several response videos accusing his apology of being fake and him continuing to spread transphobic misinformation. And while that's perfectly understandable if Ethel personally didn't find Woodford's apology to be adequate or genuine, where this crosses the line into unacceptable behavior is that Ethel then went onto repeatedly attack Rachel Oates simply because she was both friends with Woodford IRL and didn't want to get directly involved in the controversy. Essentially, Ethel is engaging in the "guilt by association" fallacy here. In actuality though, Rachel not only repeatedly stated that she disagreed with the content Woodford's original video and agreed that it was very bad and harmful, but that she is supportive of the trans community and felt unqualified to weigh in on the subject matter of trans-people in sports since she has barely any knowledge or interest about sports in general.

This response was not good enough for Ethel however, who instead misinterpreted Rachel's comments as a backhanded attempt at silencing Woodford's critics.

Things got even worse when a random fan messaged Rachel a screenshot taken from a private Facebook group from a trans-self-help group which compiled a list of public figures for the trans community to avoid following the Woodford controversy, and her name was included on that list. Rachel, not knowing that the list was from a private chat, immediately went on Twitter to defend herself, which led to Ethel accusing her of doxxing by publishing private information. This is in spite of the fact that not only did the screenshot already exist before Rachel discovered it, but she went out of her way to censor the names of the members of that Facebook group. Furthermore, Ethel had also blocked Rachel on Twitter which led to the latter asking some of her followers to show her what Ethel was stating about her so she could try to adequately defend herself, which in-turn resulted in Ethel accusing Rachel of sending her millions of followers to circumvent her block and harass her.

The situation escalated even further however, when Ethel posted a now infamous tweet to one of Woodford and Oates' friends' Lizzy Lang, not only described Woodford as a "violent transphobe intent on stripping away dozens of human rights,” but called Lang and others (presumably Oates) "members of Woodford's church a transphobia" before ending the tweet with the words, "do this world a favor and exit it."

That last line in Ethel’s tweet, “do the world a favor and exit it,” got a lot of people justifiably angry since it was very easily misconstrued as Ethel advocating for Woodford's defenders to commit suicide (she claimed it was meant to say “exit Woodford’s church of transphobia”). And while EoT later apologized and clarified the incredibly poor wording of that last comment, she still refused to apologize to Rachel after several months of targeted bullying and defamation. When Rachel saw the infamous tweet, it only served to amplify her pre-existing feelings of depression since she mistaken that tweet to be directed at her instead of Lizzy Lang. And a few days later, in an act of desperation Rachel posted an impromptu unedited video begging and pleading for Ethel to stop bullying her, not realizing that she was still badly bleeding from cuts on her arm due to feeling completely hopeless and isolated (Rachel already had a history of engaging in self-harm and cutting).

But not even Rachel engaging in self-harm nor her feelings of suicidality were enough to sway Ethel, who still continued to double-down on their harassment by arguing that Rachel "weaponizing self-harm, transmisogyny, and benevolent patriarchy," and was using "upper-class cis white woman tears" (even though Rachel has openly admitted to being lower-middle class). And to this very day, Ethel still continues to slander Rachel and falsely label her as a "serial transphobe" and "abuser" all throughout her videos, even going as far as to not only claim, "Rachel Oates' [abuse] was the second most psychologically destructive thing [she's] ever suffered, only being second to being raped as a child," but that she would rather relive her trauma of "being outed as bisexual, groomed at age 15, and sexually assaulted."

Seriously... FREAKING YIKES! Those are incredibly extreme and inflammatory statements to make! I do understand that Ethel is a CSA survivor (and on that level I 100% empathize with her because that is of course absolutely terrible and is one of the absolute WORST things anyone can suffer from), but claiming that someone circumventing a Twitter Block and or begging you to stop bullying her whilst feeling suicidal is even remotely comparable to “being raped as a child"?! That is so unbelievably insensitive on so many levels that I don’t even know where to start! It’s insensitive to not only Rachel herself, but to other CSA survivors as well since it trivializes their trauma! Ethel should know better than this!

Also, that screenshot of Ethel tweeting a link to a Guardian article discussing the weaponization of white woman tears? That was literally the top pinned-tweet to her Twitter account immediately days after Rachel posted that desperate video of her pleading to Ethel to stop her harassment campaign whilst feeling suicidal. What a truly vile and unempathetic thing for Ethel to do!

Section 3: Showing support for Rachel Oates

After I did more research into the whole EssenceOfThought Vs. Rachel Oates situation, as well as hearing Rachel's side of the story, I ended up subscribing to Rachel's YouTube channel and have since become a fan of her work. Before I eventually unsubscribed from Ethel's channel due to the way she similarly bullied several of Lily Orchard’s victims, I was given the impression by her that Rachel Oates was just another garden-variety TERF YouTuber based on he way Ethel constantly talked about her. But that’s NOT accurate at all… Rachel's channel from what I’ve seen is mainly just about discussions of secularism and religion, feminism, book reviews, and cute dog videos!

Seriously, her dog Kyra is so FREAKING adorable!

Look at her! Kyra's such a good girl! She's such a cute doggy!

But yeah, this is a prime example of how Ethel’s pattern of engaging in bad-faith moral absolutism while misrepresenting events and evidence can be seriously damaging to uninitiated viewers. And I say that not only as someone who was largely unaware of the full extent of what she had done to Rachel, but also because Ethel frames her content in a very pseudo-academic/intellectual manner and uses a lot of professional sounding words to try and disguise severely misguided and inflammatory arguments. She tries to portray her YouTube videos as if they’re akin to college-level essays with lots of citations and crap, which can easily fool people into thinking that her content is well-researched and sophisticated. Except looking below the surface, in hindsight Ethel’s videos are mostly just pretentious word-salad, cherry-picking evidence, and relying heavily on academic terminology in order promote her thinly-veiled absolutist black-&-white views on morality, attacking anyone who is “not progressive enough” for her (in addition to Rachel, Ethel & Levi have also done this to other leftist YouTubers like Lindsay Ellis, Philosophy Tube, & Suris the Skeptic). According to Ethel’s logic, you’re either an entirely good or entirely bad person, and there’s zero in-between and if you dare disagree with her to even the slightest degree then she’ll automatically consider you to be just as bad as the far-right. Basically, it’s moral absolutism.

All of Ethel’s fallacious claims against Rachel Oates are textbook examples of bad-faith moral absolutism, and I deeply regret the fact that I was ever once a fan of Ethel’s content. She is a bully and a liar. And that’s a conclusion I arrived to after seeing how Rachel’s stories about being repeatedly slandered & bullied by Ethel heavily paralleled the similar experiences of individuals like Shiloh Conner, thereby revealing a pattern of toxic behavior on Ethel’s part.

Section 4: Ethel’s renewed and current bullying campaign

So why do I bring all of this stuff up?

Well, even though the worst of the harassment Rachel suffered was back in 2019 and she has since tried to move on from this whole fiasco and continues making her usual feminist book reviews and dog videos (she even deliberately avoids mentioning EssenceOfThought by name in her videos...), Ethel has not only repeatedly tried to drag all of this drama back up, but has this singleminded obsessive vendetta to defame and destroy Rachel's YouTube career at all costs. For instance, in 2022 Ethel tried to further slander Rachel by yet again engaging in "guilt by association" fallacy because notable transgender TERF YouTuber "Rose of Dawn" (aka, the British equivalent of Blaire White) once tried to befriend Rachel in 2020 after the initial harassment campaign by Ethel, and later in 2022 Rose openly defended self-confessed genocidal serial rapist Lily Cade when the latter was platformed in an infamous transphobic BBC article. What Ethel completely neglects to mention however, is that Rachel had permanently stopped interacting with Rose when several members of her audience informed her that Rose is actually a TERF (and the way Rose suddenly tried to befriend Rachel after Ethel's bullying of her strikes me as very cult-like since TERFs sadly do have a history in engaging in incredibly abusive cultish tactics to recruit new members, as many people who have escaped that disgusting hate movement have reported...) and she has since apologized for ever giving Rose any attention. Regardless, Ethel still tried to falsely implicate Rachel alongside "Rose of Dawn" in a video condemning Lily Cade & the BBC, which led to Rachel rightfully filing a defamation claim to YouTube, getting Ethel's then-latest slanderous hit-peace against Rachel blocked in the UK.

But even worse however, is that starting in August 2023 Ethel has begun releasing a constant stream of videos continuing to smear Rachel even further by both repeating all of the exact same aforementioned slanderous claims along with a whole bunch of new ones. Like, not only has Ethel already released 3 main videos out of a planned 6-part series ranting about Rachel Oates, but she has also released 24 shorts taken from the main videos!

Geez! Not only is this beyond obsessive, but this is just straight-up targeted bullying and harassment on Ethel's part! And the new claims she makes against Rachel in these videos are equally slanderous as the ones before! For just one example, Ethel & Levi’s cite a now-deleted livestream of Rachel's that they re-uploaded as a mirrored-copy to their channel, accusing Rachel of denying trans-women's existence by making the offhanded comment of, “No, the only thing a man can provide me that a woman can’t is a p*nis. Only thing.”

Except… I actually went and watched the ENTIRE 3-hour mirrored livestream myself just to see the full context of Rachel’s quote, and it turns out that Ethel took that quote completely out of context! Not only are there lots of points in the livestream wherein Rachel repeatedly states that “gender is a social construct and that trans and non-binary people exist,” but during the stream she's doing a counter-response to a Christian fundamentalist incel who once responded one of her earlier videos. And that potentially problematic quote of Rachel’s, “No, the only thing a man can provide me that a woman can’t is a p*nis. Only thing,” was actually a sarcastic response to the incel’s homophobic argument that “women don’t want to love their equals [(aka other women)] because they actually all want what only a [dominant alpha male] can provide them.”

Essentially, Rachel was criticizing the incel’s sexist & homophobic “logic” that, “all women secretly only want p*nises,” in a snarky & sarcastic manner, but Ethel took Rachel’s comment out of context to try and instead paint it as some transphobic-slip-of-the-tongue/TERF-dogwhistle, accusing Rachel of “completely ignoring the existence of non or pre-op trans women,” in order to try and support the fallacious argument that, “Rachel Oates doesn’t actually view trans women as real women, but instead as props to objectify in order to make herself look like a better ally.”

Not once does Ethel ever mention the context that Rachel was responding to & mocking a bigoted incel during the livestream... at all...

I don't have time to go into all of the other new lies that Ethel & Levi are currently spewing against Rachel Oates since this post has already gotten incredibly lengthy (for instance, Ethel also claimed that Rachel “downplayed JK Rowling’s transphobia” simply because she used the words “incredibly problematic” to describe the Queen TERF’s bigoted views; which is such a weak and pedantic argument), but it’s a whole lot…

Conclusion

Overall, I just wanted to bring attention to this situation because EssenceOfThought's harassment campaign against Rachel Oates has been ongoing since 2019 and it shows ZERO signs of stopping anytime soon. Ethel & Levi are serial bullies and liars who regularly engage in bad-faith arguments, misrepresent evidence, and engage in moral absolutism in order to paint anyone who disagrees with them or makes even the slightest mistake as the worst people imaginable. So the more people who are made aware of this mess, the better.

Please show support for Rachel, whether that be through signal-boosting this post, subscribing to her YouTube channel, or even donating to her Patreon if you so choose.

And to EssenceOfThought, aka Ethel Thurston, (along with her editor Levi...) specifically, the famed basketball player Michael Jordan would have some choice words for you:

And I mean that sincerely. Seriously... just stop this targeted bullying & slander campaign against Rachel. It's incredibly unhealthy and obsessive. Just let it go already...

#rachel oates #EssenceOfThought is a bully #EssenceOfThought is a liar #EssenceOfThought is a moral absolutist #cw: cyberbullying mention #cw: self-harm mention #cw: suicidality mention #cw: child abuse mention #lily orchard is a predator #anti lily orchard #mini essay #tangent #serious post

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lesterlonsterssoup · 12 days

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I saw you reblog my ask from KP, a little reminder that Lily and Mikalia also befriended that Neo-Nazi over their hatred of Rebecca Sugar, ND Stevenson and others.

Consider that Sugar is a non-binary, bisexual Jewish woman descended from Holocaust survivors and Neo-Nazis like Lily and Mikalia's BFF exist to "finish what Hitler started".

Let that sink in.

Now that’s just fucking evil. I didn’t even KNOW that Sugar was descended from Holocaust survivors either! Really makes Orchard slanderous accusations against the show and Sugar herself all the more fucking horrific!

#Lily Orchard is a cruel and hateful liar

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werewolf-cuddles · 9 days

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Just want to make one thing clear, since it's a point Lily and her defenders often use to deflect criticism and callouts.

Lily Orchard being a trans woman has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Lily is not a bad person because she is trans. She is a bad person who just happens to be trans.

If my issue with Lily was that she was transgender, then I wouldn't be referring to her with her correct name, her correct pronouns, or referring to her as a woman.

There are many reasons why Lily Orchard is a terrible person. She's a liar, a manipulator, an abuser, a plagiarist, a hypocrite, and an alleged predator.

Notice that being transgender is not on that list.

Some of Lily's critics are openly transphobic. Most of them aren't. Most of us are just rightfully critical of her behaviour and actions.

#lily peet #lily orchard #lily orchard critical #lily orchard is a predator #lily orchard is an abuser #lily orchard discourse

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lily-orchard-gossip-blog · 2 months

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Hello hello again! It's good to have you back for a little while! Unfortunately there is a lot of infighting in the critical sphere right now and it's not very fun to follow. And worse still Lily is as smug as ever. People are too invested in who ripped off what, who's disrespecting this or that, they should just be having fun at Lily's expense. That's what Saiscribbles has done, and you can tell how effective it is because Lily has tried every strategy in the book to prove how not mad she is.

You know what?

I think I would like to poke fun at the whole thing. I mean, it's sounds like she's gotten a bit ridiculous since I've been gone. (Ridiculous sounds like an understatement, thought.)

I've done serious and it's exhausting. You can only take her serious for so long before you realize she doesn't really even know or believe what she's saying.

As for the fighting, well... It's a shame, but let's try to focus on what's at the core of this blog: Gossiping about Lily.

...But I do have one thing I want to get off my chest, so I will mention it here and then move on. It is under the read bar just so those who don't care can ignore it.

I do have one thing to say about the drama, and that's about Ethel.

They are a liar liar pants on fire.

Seriously, I watched Evangeline Skovs video, which was one of the better coverages on the subject and there was no plagiarism. Not even of me, and I was a source!

Never mind that fact that Ethel legit lied about my blog in their rebuttal, claiming that Levi couldn't find anything on my blog about their video, or glade, so Evangeline was lying.

Their proof? Levi used the search bar, used the word minor and glade, and nothing came up except one post...

Fun fact: I'm bad at tagging things, and my search bar is kind of useless because of that.

(Side note: why would I use glade's name? Why would I want to draw attention to someone who I assumed wanted to be left alone? I'm pretty sure that was made clear in the video.)

Anyway, if you used my archive you could easily find TONES of posts from me talking about the video in question with details.

Here's one that Ethel conveniently left out:

And you know what's hilarious about that? They reblogged this take to try and rebuke it on their tumblr. (That they have long since abandoned.)

I decided to ignore it, because obviously I'm not going to try and get in a fight with them, and Ethel was so mad by that they messaged me directly to try and threaten me with legal jargon.

So I blocked them.

But hey, since I'll probably never bother with this again, here are the messages. Enjoy old drama from like...2 years ago:

Image text here:

[Okay, I've put this off for as long as possible, but please, read this case study as right now you are parroting harmful legal advice. Victim testimony not only constitutes evidence, but can be sufficient evidence to convict, a fact that was tested in Commonwealth v Gustavo Gonzalez Santos in Massachusetts.

I’ll highlight two relevant sections in case you don’t have the time to read the entire thing: “The defendant's sole argument on appeal is that the evidence was not sufficient to support his convictions. The defendant asserts that "there were no witnesses to the alleged assaults," "no physical evidence," "no medical or forensic evidence," and "no expert testimony." He argues that "there was absolutely no conclusive evidence presented at trial that suggested the [d]efendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."” And: “Here, the victim testified to facts that constituted each element of the charged offenses. Her testimony, which the jury found to be credible, was sufficient, standing alone, to support a finding beyond a reasonable doubt as to each of the convictions. See, e.g., Commonwealth v. Lawrence, 68 Mass. App. Ct. 103, 104 (2007)

("The victim's testimony was sufficient evidence of [indecent assault and battery on a child under age fourteen]"); Commonwealth v. Gonsalves, 23 Mass. App. Ct. 184, 185 (1986) ("The victim's account of what the defendant did to him in the apartment was sufficient to overcome the defendant's motion for a required finding of not guilty of rape"). The idea that long infected our legal system that the victim's testimony in sexual assault and rape cases is less credible than the testimony of victims in cases involving other types of crimes -- an idea that reflected nothing more than sexism and an unwillingness on the part of our courts to treat sexual crimes as the gravely serious matter that they are -- has been rejected both by statute and by common law.”

When you and others continue to parrot the myth that victim testimony does not constitute as valid evidence, you are harming victims of rape and abuse. This is straight up rape culture and, since I’m pushing back any video coverage on the matter until I’ve finished dealing with Lily because I don’t want to muddle things, I need you to stop promoting falsehoods. We have legal members on our team who have passed the bar, Patchie does not, Opal does not, and neither does You Can Eat Hearts. You are causing unnecessary harm to victims by breathing life into myths constructed by rape culture. To be clear, I am not asking for your denouncement of certain people, just for you to please, stop publishing bad legal takes.

This is also the case in Canada, if you're wondering - https://www.accused.ca/evidence.htm

Sorry, I just realized I didn't give you the US case study. Here it is - http://masscases.com/cases/app/100/100massappct1.html#:~:text=The%20jury%20found%20the%20defendant,We%20affirm. ]

Oct 30, 2022 9:16 AM

Whew, you have no idea how long I wanted to spill this tea.

Alright, I've said what I've wanted to say on this topic. I'm now going to focus on laughing at Lily and her horrible incest stories.

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meimesworld · 18 days

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I know everyone should focus on the allegations of Lily orchard because ultimately that’s the most important, I’d like to raise a point and swing back to the fanfiction to ask a question to die hard Lily supporters.

No need to get into specifics, Stockholm was a story created by Lily under her dead deadname that involved abuse, pedophilia, etc etc.

What i can’t seem to fathom when there’s an argument against her lying is…why? Lily has constantly changed her story of the fanfiction multiple times.

Starting with the most well known quote of “can’t use Stockholm, I wrote that one” Lily has multiple sources where she directly acknowledges that she was part of the stories creation

The most interesting part of this, is that multiple times she has addressed the work by its name, Stockholm.

Then she went on to deny ever creating the piece in the height of the drama with Josh, where he flat out states that she wrote it, only for her in audio to say that he “could’ve pulled it from any fanfiction site” and show a censored screen shot blurring any information pointing to the exact contents of the story. While that tweet directly had been deleted, this tweet, posted on the same day he showed a screenshot of the fanfiction, proving exactly what the contents involved were.

She then some years later posted that, no, actually, it was originally called Scars, and the sex scenes were only added in because haters gonna hate man. So now it was “I didn’t write Stockholm, I wrote something else” despite, for years, only ever acknowledging it as Stockholm

All of these things are flown out the water when you remember that the @the-last-alicorn is still up and if you search her name on the blog it directly shows her account (now nuked) tied to the series.

And now, in its conclusion, both in KP’s video and in a recent stream she did, she finally admits that she did write Stockholm, addressing it by its actual name, and that it was taken out of context and, in stream, that she simply was just dumb and shouldn’t have wrote the things she did.

So my apologies, that’s actually five different stories, not 4.

This is where I have to ask supporters: at what point do you acknowledge that Lily is simply a liar? Instead of from the jump just saying “I wrote something that I don’t agree with now” as she did in her recent stream, she went on for years blaming haters, bronies, AI even when it wasn’t in public use yet. I’m pretty sure the amount of dragging she got for that alone wouldn’t have been as severe as it has been. Yeah there prolly still would ppl be weirded out by her but at least she wouldn’t be a liar. And in turn, if she can lie about something as simple as this, why in the hell is it so unbelievable that she could lie about molesting her sister, or being an abusive friend, or anything else?

Personally, I don’t even buy the idea that her tumblr just suddenly got mass reported so bad it was deleted, I genuinely think she started to realize just how much shit is housed on her account that she simply deleted it herself, but I could always just be a biased lil shit waffle constantly inclined to think the worst.

#lily orchard #lily peet #poke madhouse #stockholm

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britts-galaxy-brain · 13 days

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Hi, soo I'm not as deep into Lily's story as some people out there, so I apologise if the question is trivial or maybe too intimate idk, but I'm curious if Lily (since you two were friends), did she tell you, or maybe hinted, about what Courtney allegedly did to her back then, or is this a completely new thing she's talking about?

This is completely new, out of the blue, and directly contradicts the stories she used to tell me and others. She's brought up ex girlfriends before (that she didn't actually have). One was someone she claimed had died, she became the godparent of the girl's daughter (as a young teen), then the daughter also died. Another was Tara Callie, which was Lily's sockpuppet account she used to catfish and manipulate people. There were a couple of others that she claimed physically assaulted her, and she said they were out of her life at the same time Courtney was still living there.

Lily is legit just lying her ass off to DARVO Courtney. Not to mention who in the world describes an abusive family member as an ex partner? That is unhinged.

#lily orchard #lily orchard is a predator #lily orchard is a liar

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opinated-user · 5 months

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another inconsistency that i literally just find out today.

LO lied about being homeless and surviving purely on sex work.

https://archive.li/8YClD there´s a big difference between "i avoided being homeless" and "was actually homeless".

#lily orchard #lily orchard is a liar

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soaringlark · 3 months

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Rant/vent about the situation involving EssenceOfThought and VangelinaSkov

On the post I made a few weeks back when "VangelinaSkov Plagiarised My Lily Orchard Series - #JustAnotheriilluminaughtii" released to the public, someone yesterday started arguing with me despite me having stated I wasn't in the mood to argue.

I did comment back at them, because I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt and inform them, but gosh, I just really hate having to end up arguing about whether or not an abuse victim was actually the abuser when there's HOURS of evidence to prove who the real victim is

For context, this is about Ethel Thurston of EssenceOfThought and Rachel Oates... just Rachel Oates. I don't believe she has an online alias

TW: mentions of grooming and pedophilia, suicidal ideation, selfharm, trauma, mentions of gaslighting, mentions of rape apologists, transphobia/misia, abuse and genocide

Thurston can prove that Oates is a liar who weaponised self harm to turn her audience in a rabid pack of dogs that abused Ethel Thurston and still have left mental scars in her now!

Ethel has been dealing with suicidality and trauma from the incident and as a former viewer of Oates I KNOW that Thurston is 100% more trustworthy than Oates and a lot better of a person.

Oates is a petty control freak, and I was first tipped off at this hearing her tone about when youtube (wrongfully) took her video down that debated the antimask crowd for medical misinformation. (I believe they took it down for the subject being about antimaskers to try to control the issue of people not wearing masks)

Her tone was vindictive (and in hindsight it was a moment that showed her true colors) when she's normally the type of person to act soft, innocent and sweet.

She was friends with rapist apologist and has thanked a person who compared David Reimer to Luna Younger! They compared a mutilated and sexually abused cis man to a victim of physical/mental abuse at the hands of her father because of her trans status (he cut her hair short against her will at the very least)

But because Rachel has been able to turn everything around to paint herself as the victim Ethel is seen as only a monster.

I just... feel gaslit...? Because I know what is true; Rachel has gone as far as to lie about the fucking color of her *EYES* to demonize Ethel Thurston, how the fuck can you trust her after doing that?

Ethel Thurston deserves to share their story without being called a harasser! Sometimes you need more than one book to tell a full story to its conclusion, and that should be extended to Ethel making 5-7 videos about her, since they are all like different parts of the story being told.

I have watched almost all of Ethel's content since Levi joined the channel, and I know that if Ethel really was the monster people paint her as I would have gotten the same gut feeling I have gotten with people like Blair (Illuminaughtii), Vangelina Skov, Rachel Oates and Lily Orchard (trying to think of more but can't... Johnny Silvestri I guess, the way he worded things was very victim blamy at times)

Even applies to some people I've just seen their writings of; recently someone was banned from a shiny hunting community server I'm in, because they were calling someone lazy and unmotivated for not being able to get a job. They also called people who use AI as a helping tool for CVs stupid and said that you should be smart enough to know how to word things if you deserve a job (paraphrased)

And I had a very bad feeling not long after they had first joined and spoken, something told me they lacked respect for other people and their comfort, since one of the first things they posted was vaguely sexual in a mostly PG 13 server.

And right after their ban they, with no evidence, called the server owner a groomer pedophile who hoards minors; absolutely disgusting reaction to being called out for ableism (+ a lot of the community is in their 20s or even 30s)

Yet what is happening here is the more I learn about Ethel Thurston the more I respect her and that is incredibly rare/has never happened before

And I have watched almost all of their live streams, which is where a person would end up showing their true colors

At most I've seen her irritated it's when her friend interupts and I have those moments too when I'm talking about something I deem important and want to get to my point of.

It happened just yesterday, in fact, because they were a bit too insistant on writing about a black kid being abused by white parents while they themselves are non-black, and more specifically, white.

I think I got them to agree in the end to change the parents to at least also be black so it's more general abusive parents rather than potentially being a racist thing, since this isn't something you just do without hours upon hours of research (if not years) and checking with people who experience racism that it isn't downplaying any harm caused by it.

But anyway, point is that when someone tries to butt in with a point you're getting to on a sensitive topic; being snappy is understandable.

Just needed to get some thoughts out of my head, because I'm feeling frustrated and unsure of my own understanding of things... But I know that Rachel Oates is a liar, because I've heard her lies myself years ago as I SAW her "Lies about me" video before it was taken down to protect her fucking *image* She lies like if she'd stop breathing if she was honest!

She lies about Ethel's pronoun order, she lies about her fucking EYE COLOR, she lies about changing to be a better person, she lies about being unable to pick a side in the literal GENOCIDE GOING ON while claiming she's against genocide!

She's a horrible person for that one especially; you can not fence-sit here. You're either pro-genocide or you're not. What's happening in Palestine is one of the worst crimes happening today and it's been going on for decades; now adults and children are starving to death as Israli soldiers cheer each other on for killing them!

It is vile disgusting behavior to act like you have to be an expert to say that Israel is in the wrong. They are in the wrong; they are genocidal colonizers who have been trying to exterminate the people who's land they were granted by uncaring foreigners (the USA) to claim as their own.

And I know that if Vangelina Skov could prove she didn't plagiarise by not crediting the work of the people behind EssenceOfThought, she would have, instead of calling Ethel an extortionist

Sorry for this long post, but if you took the time to read it then thank you.

Please do not argue about this with me; if you want to know the truth look into it through EssenceOfThought's content.

I know I'm right, and even if I am wrong you can't convince me either way, so please just spare both of us the upset /gen

From now on I will block anyone who does try to argue immediately Just to be clear: you can ask what the sources are, but if you argue from VangelinaSkov's side without having watched any of Ethel's videos you're blocked

I have watched the video multiple times, because I'm autistic and need familiarity and Ethel's tone of voice is soft and soothing, so I'll know if you haven't actually heard her talking points from her own mouth /srs

#lark rants #lark vents #long post #just been having some shit on my mind #ignore if you feel like this is more of just screaming into the void

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thanagor-the-king · 1 year

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If there’s one thing I’ve realized while watching Madamme Orchard’s content, it’s this. Everyone loves to call her a liar. how she will lie about her cancer. she will lie about her past being the most epic badass saviours of all time of marginalized people. how she turned in a p*do, etc. This is incorrect. Lily isn’t a Liar. she is a Bullshitter! There is a difference.

I won’t bore you with an etymology lesson, but for Lily to be lying, she needs to be actively going against the truth and that doesn’t fit her M.O. you know what does fit her M.O? A casual disregard for the truth in order to paint a narrative. Do you know what the definition of bullshit is? Exactly.

Why is this relevant? Because I see a lot of people fall into the trap of fact checking her; I don’t think it matters whether you fact check her or not but rather focus on the impact what she says will have because often it’s transparent. Lily primes her audience. Lily gets in close with her audience and often makes posts about wanting to be sexual with her fans. Lily has a casual distain for power dynamics and doesn’t think they exist when it comes to her. She is Ethically and intellectually lazy.

#lily orchard

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ephrom · 2 years

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Are Lily Orchard's Stalkers In The Room With Us Right Now?

Lily Orchard has a surprising amount of stalkers. Not only that, but she's really good at determining who is and isn't a stalker on the spot. Here is her declaring two anonymous people on her tumblr stalkers in the last week--because they both called out her constant mention of vague "stalkers" as the reason everything bad happens to her in life.

Now, I'm not going to say that Lily Orchard has never been stalked. However, Lily has such a vague definition of "stalking" that the term is basically meaningless. Back in the day (notice how I am admitting this was years ago), she used to label ForNoGoodReason a stalker--make no mistake, he was a dumbass and a creep, but not a stalker--for the crime of making videos talking about her. However, making videos on somebody--even obsessively and constantly making videos on somebody--is not stalking. Under that definition, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein were stalking Richard Nixon by covering Watergate for The Washington Post. This is a behavior Lily began engaging when I stopped watching her, and has only gotten worse since. Take this video Orchard posted three months (notice how I am very clearly saying when this video came out) at time of writing.

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In this video, she lists six people as stalkers--none of whom she says by name, by the way. Yeah, despite this video serving the purpose of "drawing attention to her stalkers," she doesn't actually allow people to know who these people she wants to draw attention to are.

I'm still fairly new to the Lily Orchard drama sphere all things considered, so I'll break this down the best I can by telling you what she names these people and who they really are.

Karen is @britts-galaxy-brain

Carol is both Jess and Zena

Katie is @segasister

Ellie is Lizzy Orchard, her ex-fiancé

Skylar is Patchwork Hearts

Val is Cypher from @whyyoulyinglily

Mark Twain once said that no man has a good enough memory to be a liar, and Lily is such a liar she is unable to remember her own story from paragraph to paragraph. Within the same minute, Segasister I mean Katie I mean Segasister hates Lily both because she said Voice of Reason was wrong regarding My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic and because she called out pedophiles in the brony community. Jess and Zena I mean Carol I mean Jess and Zena are grifters trying to content farm her one minute, and the next they're nothing more than aggressive Vaush fans.

Of course, if anybody knows even the basic facts about these situations, we can find that Lily is just lying at various points. For example, the content farming Jess and Zena I mean Carol I mean Jess and Zena were engaging in actually amounted to two videos before this came out.

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Meanwhile, Brittiany I mean Karen I mean Brittiany is so transphobic that when they were friends Brittany was actually encouraging Lily to pursue a transgender identity despite fears that actually becoming a woman would be unrealistic. Oh, also, Brittiany began talking about her experiences with Lily between five and six years ago--I'll admit, I can't remember exactly when--not eight years ago, I know, I was there when it happened.

This isn't even getting into the number of claims she makes without the slightest amount of evidence--again, because the nature of the video demands she not use any or else risk shining a light on the people she made this video to shine a light on. For example, she claims out of nowhere that she has a hunch that Patchwork Heart I mean Skylar I mean Patchwork Heart was celebrating her being raped in 2018. If this claim were true, that would make Patchwork Heart I mean Skylar I mean Patchwork Heart a terrible human being--and Lily just throws out this guess without giving it any kind of support. (For reference, I have since talked to Patchwork Heart and she does not seem like the kind of person who would celebrate somebody being raped.)

However, what have these six stalkers done with all their years of harassment? Not much, according to Lily. You see, despite being obsessed with her to the point where they want to show up to her house, Lily has to admit that these people have done nothing to her other than stress her out. She even says she can't sue them for defamation because they haven't done enough damage to her. Remember, it wasn't one of her stalkers who found her address, it was a fan who did that to send her a Nintendo Switch.

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Side note: This video is great because Lily spends basically the last seventy five percent complaining about her stupid and obsessive her fanbase is. We all know that if her critics acted like this, she would talk about this constantly. Meanwhile, the people who criticize her are supposed to be the biggest sources of stress in her life?

In fact, can we just talk about how Lily talks about her fanbase in this video more generally? This is a topic for another post, but Lily saying her fans "can't take no for an answer" just shows you what kind of community she fosters. Lets not forget that this is the same woman who said that she told her fans she was fine with NSFW art of her OC because she thought that would mean they'd make less of it.

This should go without saying, but if you have to play reverse psychology regarding sexual boundaries--that's not exactly a good thing. Again, why is it that Lily keeps talking about the damages her critics keep doing--which she admits are basically non-existent--when her fans are doing shit like this?

In another post, she says that her fans are morons who cannot do the most basic forms of critical thinking and expect her to figure things out for them.

It's funny that in that video, she says that online cults cannot form. Even ignoring the fact that this is just wrong, it seems like a good chunk of her fans want a cult leader.

Anyway, I have no idea how to end this post--so here's a funny tweet from Nezziemonster, somebody with a very funny Twitter that you should follow.

#lily orchard #fornogoodreason #Youtube #jess and zena #segasister #lizzy orchard #patchwork hearts #cypher #voice of reason #vaush #britts-galaxy-brain #nezziemonster

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