#lovejoy discourse

[cacti-on-venus]

my current statement on wilbur's apology

My head's kinda in pieces right now, so this might be a bit of a ramble so here we go.

Going forward, I will no longer be supporting Wilbur Soot or Lovejoy

Seeing as multiple other ccs much closer to him than I could ever be as a fan have spoken out against him and that the apology was at best mediocre, I have decided it's best to drop him as of now.

It'll take me a bit longer to give up Lovejoy as I've used the songs to cope with my anxiety for over a year and a half now and haven't found anything else to replace it, but over time I should be able to let go (for now, i will focus on listening to the songs through unofficial lyric videos so that it doesn't profit him in any way and looking for other comfort bands. Music is how I've always coped, and hopefully, I can find something else to give my attention to)

My support will always be with the victims in the situation and hearing their voices first, which in this case happens to be Shubble. Give her all the love and support you can and drop his content when you feel ready to do so. He's not worth your support.

I will continue to write my SBI fanfiction as I have been before but will make it a point to separate the cc!wilbur from c!wilbur. My main fanfiction, "Family Against All The Adversity" has meant a LOT to me and I put a lot of effort into it. I'd go as far as to say it was the only long project that I've gone so far into writing and with a history of leaving stories without an ending I don't want to abandon it and leave it at a loose end.

To minimize the damage caused by this, I might just write all the remaining chapters and finish them in one go while also cutting down on Wilbur's presence in the story with a focus on other members of the SBI crew.

As for my other fics...I don't know. To people who follow what else I write on ao3, you're probably aware I started a new qsmp tntduo fic. One I was really excited to write too. As of now, it is only two chapters into development so I don't know if it would make sense to continue writing it. I might make poll later to see how my readers feel about it since there's no point writing the story if the audience doesn't want to hear it.

For now, stay safe, support Shubble and take all the time you need to process the situation and find ways to cope. Get into other streamers, ones who actually deserve your support, and trust me when I say things will get better.

[rekas-bitches]

On the Wilbur situation

I don't care if you decide to drop him, not at all, but I will block anyone who still denies that it's him after Shubble made this tweet. Wilbur was the one who abused her.

She's all but confirmed it, she's just not saying his name. If you want more evidence in good faith, feel free to dm me for clarification.

[pyroy3]

Compiling additional proof against Wilbur into one, easy to understand list.

I'm making a simple list that anyone can refer to when faced with doubts about Shelby's and other victims claims. I don't know if this will reach the right audience, or reach anyone at all, but i'd like to get it off my chest.

Why do I care so much? Because i've followed Wilbur since his day on the Jacksucksatlife channel. He had a great influence over me as a teenager, and it sucks that he was an asshole all along. I want to see him fail, that's all.

Main points are all in Shelby, Nikki, Minx and other creators' videos on him. These are just small details that are easily missed.

Wilbur being abusive towards his friends

The first video in particular really highlights the amount of power that Wilbur holds. "Tell them about how awful I am to you" seems like a dangerous thing to say as someone who is actually abusive, but it's likely that he knows he can get away with it. He doesn't expect anyone to call him out on his behaviour.

I think she has also mentioned the biting a few other times. This is pretty obvious proof that the biting was happening, and atleast got to the point of causing bruises.

A clip talking about how Wilbur threw Niki because she playfully said she was big and strong. His quick sentence "you were saying you were stronger than-" could either be him misremembering, deciding to ignore that detail, or literally saying that he interpreted her actions as claiming to be stronger than him. He says it was a "consensual throwing" but we already know how terrible he is with consent. TLDW: Niki said she was big and strong so Wilbur threw her "to assert dominance" (and show that he was stronger than her).

In Tommy's disneyland vlog, there is a short clip where Tommy playfully unties Wilbur's shoelaces and gets his hand stomped on. Thing like these flew under the radar because of their brotherly bond. You'd expect two young brothers to react like this, but not a grown man and his teenage friend. Tommy tells him that his finger got cut, and instead of apologizing, Wilbur says it was because Tommy was gonna untie his shoelaces. He essentially says that Tommy had it coming, that it was his fault he got hurt.

The biting behaviour wasn't exclusive to romantic partners. This is a clip of him biting Tommy's hand "for content", despite Tommy repeatedly shouting no. The biting isn't bad here, but it once again proves that this was something he genuinely did.

The story starts at 0:38. Here, Wilbur tells the story of how he helped Techno pick apples by gently throwing them so Techno could put them in the basket. Techno says that Wilbur is very bad at throwing. In response, Wilbur says that he threw an apple as hard as he could, aiming for his stomach. Instead, he accidentally hit the shoulder that his surgery was on. Anyone who's been hit in the stomach should know how painful it is. If Wilbur were to throw an apple has hard as he could at his stomach, it would seriously hurt. But he laughs it off. Wilbur once again claims that the person he hurt deserved it, because techno made fun of his throwing ability. I've heard that Techno's dad yelled at Wilbur for doing it, but even then, he still laughs about the story.

Wilbur's music and separating it from the artist

It's completely natural for a musician with a history of bad mental health to blame himself in his music. One of Wilbur's biggest inspirations, Crywank, have lots of songs about being a bad person. A symptom of depression is to believe you're a bad person. But as far as we know, Wilbur's music actually told the truth.

I can't find the tweet, but we also know that one of wilburs old friends(?) came out with the info that Lovejoy's song "concrete" was based on their experience, and the song explains Wilbur's neglectful behaviour.

You should know what Lovejoy's music is about. A lot of it is based on toxic relationships, being cheated on, being abused. It is a complete mockery of the people that he hurt. "Call me what you like" is clearly about being in an abusive relationship where his partner takes advantage of him and cheats on him. She forces him to "bump his head into every doorway she sees suitable for them to go through". Not that he knows what the song he wrote is about though, since he couldn't recall a single thing about the song during the genius interview. Yes, he was high, but he may as well had someone ghostwrite it for him.

Singing "you claim your ex-boyfriend's a policeman, I say you need better standards" in the song Perfume is crazy when his standards are allowing abuse to happen.

When listening to Scum, you repeatedly hear him admitting to being scum and waste. Concrete is about how he's a piece of shit. Consequences should remind you of the actual consequences of his actions. I already explained what's wrong with "your sister was right". His parody songs are direct reflections of his real personality.

However, if you still want to listen to him - spotify has a feature where you can put local files into your playlists. If you have his music downloaded, you can listen to it on spotify without giving him money or views. Just saying.

Why he can get away with it

Look at him. He is an attractive white man in the UK, And pretty privilege is a thing, no matter how you look at it. He's popular and has gotten empathy from impressionable teenagers on the internet. A lot of people have put him on a pedestal after he showed support for the LGBT+ community and BLM, singing about being against capitalism. People feel bad for him because of his history with mental health problems. They excuse his actions because he was depressed during his relationships. He also has a pattern of exclusively targeting those weaker than him. Tiny women who he can pin down, throw or bite to show he's stronger than, and teenager Tommy who believed they had a brother dynamic. You will also notice that the only people who have shared their experience with him have been women who didn’t feel strong enough to fight back against him. He is a manipulator through and through.

This is not all the proof there is

If you need more convincing, watch other creator's videos on the subject. Shelby, Niki, Minx, Alicenyannyan. There are also more small things that he has done that add up, either violent behaviour, yelling, or ignoring people's boundaries. You will also This man is undeniably abusive.

Thank you to anyone who got this far, I hope someone will get use out of it. I'm happy to finally get what I wanted to say out there.

[arsonbur-riley]

Attention.

Its obvious that people on both sides of this Wilbur/Shelby situation have been doing things that cross the line. The amount of death threats towards not only the creators but also fans is downright disgusting.

Don't you realise how parasocial it is?!

And for the people wanting to do something about the upcoming Australian tour, if you hate Wilbur with every fibre of your being then don't go to the concerts just to yell and protest.

Guess what? That'll only get you kicked out of the venues, AND you'll be giving your money to the very people you don't support.

Let the people who still support Lovejoy and Wilbur be, you aren't judge jury and executioner in this situation. Frankly, we shouldn't even be involved in this; let Shelby and Will deal with this themselves.

Will said he won't be saying anything more about this right now, not that he'll never talk about it again. Give him the chance to collect his thoughts and be aware that there will definitely be legalities involved that might make him not able to say anything.

(This is not me taking sides, this is me addressing the fact that people seem to think he won't say anything more)

[purpleshoenickelhuman]

Dear Wilbur content fans:

Please don’t be “tone deaf” when posting art or content aka ignoring or not caring about the issue.

This seems to be a problem when content creators do something bad, and things like art, especially positive art, are posted without care (like with Dream during the allegations).

For context, Shelby/Shubble came out about how an ex was abusive and manipulative to her and it turned out that ex is Wilbur. After Wilbur “apologized” many other close content creators called him out on it and said how manipulative he was to them.

So, again, please don’t be “tone deaf” about this situation.

[kiwinatorwaffles]

hmm. i'm usually not one to post about these topics but i think i've gathered enough thoughts on wilbur's abysmal apology towards shelby to form a cohesive message.

WARNING: the rest of the post will discuss abuse and also a lot of my personal experiences as someone who has hurt other people in the past. obviously not to the extent that wilbur has, but please move on it you don’t want to see it. thank you and stay safe.

being stuck in a hard place, whether it be living conditions, mental conditions, or any other factor, will naturally hurt the person going through those tough times. and hurt people hurt people. but i think there's a pretty Big Fucking Difference between doing bad things in the past and actually owning up to your actions after regretting it VS doing bad things in the past and turning a blind eye against those you've hurt to wallow in your own ego and misery.

i’ve experienced my fair share of abusive friendships, but when i was fifteen, i WAS the toxic friend. (yes, i’m aroace. friendships aren’t the same as a romantic relationship but they can be just as strong. i value my platonic bonds as much as allos value their marriages or date partners.) i was going through a huge depressive episode. it was tough for me, but during that time, i made fun of my friends' interests to their faces because i couldn't personally understand it, and i also vagueposted about the little things they did that ticked me off right where they could see it. it got to the point where they had to make a separate group chat to talk about their interests where i wouldn’t see it. i hurt all of them, and it ended in them confronting me about my actions. they put me in my place and called me out for my horrible attitude.

after seeing my friends' perspectives, i realized just how awful i was to them and sincerely apologized to each of them. i recognized their feelings towards my actions and didn't make excuses. even though i was going through a hard time myself, my abuse towards them was absolutely NOT justified. as i recovered, i made sure not to hurt them any more, and years later, our friendships are still going strong.

my experiences aren't nearly as extreme as what wilbur has done to shelby, but i think it's pretty fucking clear that his apology was flaming dog shit served on a trash dump. like, i was a fifteen year old. he's a Grown Ass Man with a big platform. he dug his own grave by talking about himself first instead of actually addressing his mistreatment of shelby first and foremost. he didn't even MENTION shelby by name. talking about his "strides to betterment" without even directing his apology towards the person he actually hurt is just pathetic. that whole spiel about how he "thought" the whole exchange was consensual is fucking wild. he didn't even apologize for that; he moved on right afterwards.

we can infer that wilbur has been struggling with being a person who has done bad things through his songs and lovejoy's music. he might have been going through a hard time and maybe even regretted it (though his apology really makes it seem like he's just doing it for damage control), that STILL doesn't validate any hurt he might have caused. the least he could’ve done is to sincerely apologize to shelby, even if she didn’t accept it. but he couldn’t even do that.

it's just disappointing that, as someone who has a platform of millions of followers, he displayed an act of shallowness. in the end, his attempt at sincerity fell flat and benefited no one, especially not the people he abused. if he had properly apologized, even if his apology wasn't accepted, it would've shown people in a similar situation how to apologize to the people they hurt in the past in a mature and sincere way.

so, yeah. FUCK wilbur soot. focus not on the fact that he has done bad, but that the one he abused didn’t get a proper apology. support shelby and other victims of abuse. listen to their experiences and spread awareness of these cautions. uplift their voices, not his.

for those who have connected to his and lovejoy's music that have gone through a similar dark time in their lives, i also extend my heart out to you. it must also be hard to see someone who reflected your struggles of betterment reveal himself to be someone who really hasn't gotten better at all.

but you don’t have to be like him. you don’t need to follow in his steps as long as you own up to your mistakes, even if you can’t talk to those you hurt anymore. in the end, what matters most is that you apologize in a sincere way and make sure you don’t repeat those mistakes going forward.

you CAN get better. if anything just so spite that british boy’s ass

thank you. kiwi out ✌️

[dreams-sies]

I don’t know what to feel honestly about Wilbur, like i feel bad for him, but i have a feeling what he’s going through is just karma for lying about who he is constantly, and it gotten bigger and bigger overtime, and of course, also of abusing people and manipulating them.

They didn’t even talk about Shelby, or even mention her which is a big sign they are trying to hide what Wilbur did to Shelby.

Hoping Shelby is doing good.

[wibblewubble]

Holy fuck I have never clicked instagram so fast.

I just watched Wilbur's new story, and he did *not* say in response to the stuff that came out months ago that it's all he wants to say about it like I've seen others rage about, he said that's all he wants to say FOR NOW.

In no way am I defending him but I am taking into account the fact that he has probably considered that no matter what he was going to say when he came back to the internet, there would be instant backlash. There has been zero chance for Wilbur to even begin to properly apologise for what has happened, probably because the man has been fucking fearing for his life.

What the fuck else can you do in this situation aside from lay low?

And for one thing, I am happy in some way that Lovejoy will be making some form of comeback, especially because Joe, Mark and Ash don't deserve their music career to be cut off just like that.

If you wanna go after me for saying this shit that's fucking finnneee, but I have been fucking terrified of wearing their hoodie in public because of stories I heard of people being abused on the streets, not to mention I almost lost a good friend of mine because of this whole fucking situation.

People took this way too far with their death threats to both the fans and people involved in the situation, I mean the fucking Lovejoy discord server was LOCKED. Lines were crossed, and innocent people got caught in the crossfire.

I want to be able to listen to the music that helped me so much when I was in the worst dip in my mental health I have ever been in, so this response from Wilbur has me nervous but excited for the tour in Australia.

If you don't like this response, don't interact.

[quackitytheduck]

girl...

[felixisfruity]

honestly im torn about listening to lovejoy because most of the guys in lovejoy? not wilbur soot. i will not be listening to exclusively wilbur soot music, though, but im not sure about lovejoy

[euphoric-ghoul]

Pirate I'll look good when I'm sober JUST to hear how bad it is.. it actually sucks... it sounds exactly like cmwyl ANDNDND it sounds like HES talking about an abusive ex which is wild

[aroacesafeplaceforall]

hello, its me! the anon who asked for your opinion abt shipping Alastor with other characters :)

firstly, thank you for answering! i totally agree that, if you build on a character's canon aro/ace orientation, then shipping them would be okay. ive just heard other people say doing that was aroace erasure, and i didnt feel like i had much say, because (as previously stated) im aceflux and nebularomantic.

my sexuality fluctuates, and i cant really tell the difference between romantic and platonic attraction, which is why i didnt feel qualified to put out my opinion on such matters

i also feel like i should apologize, bc i kinda feel like my ask may have snowballed into some sort discourse? idk, just from what i saw when looking at the blog every now and then, it looked like some shit was going down, revolving around Alastor 😭

now, onto why im here: why should someone do if a person they looked up to, who outwardly supported the aroace community, turns out to be a horrible person? (im sure that some people reading this can already guess who im talking about)

i feel so icky about the situation, bc ive supported and loved this person for years. all of the songs theyve ever written have been so aro-coded (as said by aromantics), and a vast majority of their fanbase is aromantic/on the aro/ace spectrum, myself included. they even spoke about their love for the aromantic community openly, and now, with them being exposed as a horrible person, i dont really know how to feel. is there any advice you could give me and others who are in the same boat? /nf

—sincerely, 🦢🦌

No it’s all good! The discourse was started by me ducking up and some people taking it slightly to far.

Unfortunately I do know who you’re talking about. I was in that fandom back in 20-22 ish, and I couldn’t be happier that I left. Honestly. I don’t know ANYthing about the situation other then someone being revealed to be a piece of shit for some reason and I would like to keep it that way:

I don’t need to know the details about what this person did.

Small side note before I begin:

I think the problem is a lot of people have put people like that on a pedestal while not knowing anything about them. 

The big difference between e- celebrities and true (actors, singers, rich assholes ect) celebrities is the accountability of the public. True celebrities have been held accountable much sooner and to much more effect then e-celebrities due to the fact that the media cares what they do. The paparazzi ect

People talking about not listening to said persons music anymore: reminder that it’s not only them who produces and plays that music. Don’t listen to their solo shit, burn CDs rip it off YouTube, piracy is on the rise.

The rest of the people involved with the band are NOT at fault here and their career and income should not have to suffer for an asshole.

“Cancel” the person not the team.

You can still relate to something without relating to the asshole

You can still relate to something without being the asshole

Be respectful

Listen to victims

And a word for my aspecs ->

The amount of straight people who are just as bad doesn’t matter here, no matter what happens next, all people will see is “he supported aroace spec people” and will try and use it.

Ignore that block them and report harassment

Stay safe anon

[sapphicwithapen]

never trust a rock musician bro damn

[fadeawaywithyou]

Fucking pissed that w*lb*r bitch turned out to be a shit person because I cannot understate how much his music meant to me. Like, my first concert, my sibling's first concert, with wonderful memories and everyone there was great. His individual music was so relatable and good. I listened to jl so much last summer. I loved his second album, and his comedy music. I still have jl and atp on one of my playlists because even though I wince and skip them, they mean too much to me to delete. I just... I hate him so much for ruining my favorite music. The songs about him being a shit boyfriend isn't just a persona or indulging in your worst thoughts, it was fuckin true. And I love the music he made with lvjy I want to listen but I just can't. Its beyond not wanting to support an abuser financially. I can't even think about pirating so I don't give him money but still can enjoy his music, I can't listen to it at all. It, like, hurts to listen to knowing what I know now. I hate this I hate this I hate this. I painted the album for ycgma and sketched out plans for his other album covers but now I want to scream every time I flip through my sketches. Fuck you fuck you fuck you. I'll never support him even if it hurts but damn I hate this. I shoved all his merch in a box and for now I'll ignore it. I almost got a tattoo based off of iafiap was my favorite song ever and the only reason I didn't was money. The song means so much to me. I can't take it away from him. Ahhghfiduvjdbfusldv I'm so frustrated every time I think of music to listen to. I can't pick my favorite band. My favorite band sucks.

[arsonbur-riley]

Lovejoy Australian Tour Advice

A REMINDER TO ALL OF THE SHELBY SUPPORTERS WHO LIVE IN AUSTRALIA, DO NOT BUY TICKETS TO THE SHOWS THIS WEEK!

YOU WILL JUST BE SUPPORTING THEM OTHERWISE, AND THE VENUE SECURITY WILL LEGITIMATELY KICK YOU OUT IF YOU MAKE A FUSS!

Just let the people who still support them get their chance to see Lovejoy play, if you hate them just block and move on because any protesting you do will do nothing but harm yourself and others!

[swordalt]

From The Perceptive Of Shubble.

The claims made in this video are quite simple Shelby claims that Wilbur has been abusive to her.

She Alleges his abuse was by bitting her, thus causing her physical harm. Gaslighting her and love booming her.

After such he had apology and she does not accept it, all of which is visible in the video.

If we were to give Shelby's statments credit, then it would seem Wilbur is an abusive person who doesn't care about her feelings and only intent to lie and cause her pain.

Please see the full video