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wolfsneedles · 3 years

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perhaps a small meta like thing i wanted to write and share on robb. I was thinking about that very haunting and pivotal moment in ASOS, when rickard karstark a loyal man of robb and starks killed the two prisoner/wards kids from lannister family when he realised catelyn released jaime. Catelyn releasing him is different and a very realistically emotional thing but robb acting and defending his mother when rickard says It was Lady Catelyn who was responsible for murder of the two kids....he just slaughtered in sleep and dark of their cells (reeks of bit sexism and misogyny tbh). Not realising however that jaime wasn't gonna get killed anyways that to by rickard or Robb was never gonna let them hurt him. basically so if karstark was avenging his sons...who died in battle with Robb, it is understandable but this was rickard's individualistic revenge - he was fighting for robb too. For North and for Starks and for his KING. i never understood how he killed two children but thats not the concern really. It is how robb reacts to murder of two children by karstark which is so foolish and stupid and honestly cruel considering his revenge was not gonna succeed anyways when jaime had...already escaped (and no omg cat wasn't responsible for karstark betrayal). And then Robb says, "

"I owe their fathers truth," said Robb. "And justice. I owe them that as well." He gazed at his crown, the dark gleam of bronze, the circle of iron swords. "Lord Rickard defied me. Betrayed me. I have no choice but to condemn him.

He made up his mind anyways to execute karstark not for betrayal but also for justice. Poetic Justice maybe...but the entire scene of rickard karstarks execution is very hauntingly beautiful however uneasy and eerie, and you see robb from Cats POV doing something from his own hands himself. The imagery and environmental gloom is perfect. Even weather grrm wrote like, was hauntingly unsettling.

Lord Rickard's fought at my side in half a dozen battles. His sons died for me in the Whispering Wood. Tion Frey and Willem Lannister were my enemies. Yet now I have to kill my dead friends' father for their sakes." He looked at them all. "Will the Lannisters thank me for Lord Rickard's head? Will the Freys?"

He obviously knew, the death of karstark's liege lord will earn him worse betrayals and series of more unfortunate events,, yet he still in despair asks brynden and others, that freys and lannisters will obviously not thank him for this. Infact they repaid him worse.

How then can you call this vengeance? This was folly, and bloody murder. Your sons died honorably on a battlefield, with swords in their hands.”

I wanted to describe the scene which is so poetic. But the fact that there is constant thunder and rain can highlight the fact that it was or can be synonymous to misery and death and...robbs ultimate betrayal when karstarks leave in the night same day. Catelyn described the weather outside as,

"Outside the thunder crashed and boomed, so loud it sounded as if the castle were coming down about their ears. Is this the sound of a kingdom falling? Catelyn wondered"

In the next sentence u see, robb more mature and dauntless when he decides he will execute rickard, "Robb reached down with both hands, lifted the heavy bronze-and-iron crown, and set it back atop his head, and suddenly he was a king again. “Lord Rickard dies.”

(also makes me mention how ppl criticise dany too mostly from the got show, but in books why she kills people, i think....if u put yourself in those historical framework and mentality of medieval society with loyalties and devotion tied to each other whether based on federalism or personal love, betrayal and treachery or going behind a king or queens back doesn't...go unpunished. Treason never goes unpunished when we also think of jon snow executing janos and robb with karstark. You have to realise emotions of both people. the one who carries sentence and one who dies.)

Back to the scenic description i found in this chapter. Catelyn again talks about weather and i absolutely loved contrast bw the weather and grimness of it and an execution soon to be carried in godswood,

"When day broke, grey and chilly, the storm had diminished to a steady, soaking rain, yet even so the godswood was crowded. River lords and northmen, highborn and low, knights and sellswords and stableboys, they stood amongst the trees to see the end of the night’s dark dance."

"Robb flung the poleaxe down in disgust, and turned wordless to the heart tree. He stood shaking with his hands half-clenched and the rain running down his cheeks. Gods forgive him, Catelyn prayed in silence. He is only a boy, and he had no other choice"

I think the rain is perfect thing. the way it is pouring down and then previously it was mentioned how remaining men who took part in killing young boys of lannisters with karstark were hung from trees ...but their faces were darkened and washed and grrm mentions this a lot everytime he mentions a depressing scene with death and ppl hanging from trees esp when lady stoneheart or brothers without banners or brienne and pod encounter people hanged. Its also sooo haunting how karstark was executed in front of heart tree and godswood...by hands of Robb as well (similar to what ned said that man who passes sentence will swing the sword so he knows what he feels too and robb did it last moment too)

" That was the last she saw of her son that day "

This line by catelyn also describes horror of war and how young people like robb in this case are dragged into the lords game of thrones, sometimes half-heartedly sometimes intentionally she describes how war is affecting her son who is after all a boy.

".....rain continued all through the morning, lashing the surface of the rivers and turning the godswood grass into mud and puddles"

This weather is same as it was described and was on the day or eve of when Catelyn and robb along with edmure were making for the Twins and and something more horrific which was about to unfold there as well ( red wedding ) and on their way to twins the rain is mercilessly beating and falling too.

Last i wanna mention is day when robb and his men with Catelyn made for the Twins for wedding and weather was same miserable since last time it was when karstark was executed...which I was thinking DOES point to robbs failure and demise in the end as weather has a lot of impact on story and so does the ice and fire contrast that has always been made where winters and cold winds welcome the coming of darkness and enemy force in this case the Others, and fire reflects passion, warmth and hope for me in passages. prob why i love mention of dany and her dragons because they do represent an entirely different aura and hope against the dread that is building on the Wall and beyond it for coming of the actual-evil-forces the Others.

This is how perfectly the differences bw robbs victory in Whispering wood taken as sign of pride and hope is mentioned with --> emphasis on how warm the weather was, and now their travel to the Twins for red wedding as --> rain, mud, puddle, banks overflowing, their stark banners flooded and hanging down (another excellent indication for how house stark did have their back and strength broken after the wedding hence banner hanging low, or when arya later travels to twins and sees the banners on fire due to the massacre taking place...)

"..As the gods would have it, their route took them through the Whispering Wood where Robb had won his first great victory. They followed the course of the twisting stream on the floor of that pinched narrow valley, much as Jaime Lannister’s men had done that fateful night. It was warmer then, Catelyn remembered, the trees were still green, and the stream did not overflow its banks. Fallen leaves choked the flow now and lay in sodden snarls among the rocks and roots, and the trees that had once hidden Robb’s army had exchanged their green raiment for leaves of dull gold spotted with brown, and a red that reminded her of rust and dry blood"

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gondorosi · 4 years

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The gradual separation of show!Jon from book!Jon - Part II

Magic

The showrunners deciding that magic is an unimportant part of the saga and to be relegated to the background is utter horseshit. There’s a bloody REASON direwolves and dragons reappeared in the world when they did, more or less at the same time. There’s a fucking reason why in Martin’s version Dany’s fireproof nature was a one-time thing, the dormant magic in her reawakening as needed BECAUSE dragons needed to be brought back into the world. Dany, Jon and Bran are the three most magic-sensitive characters in the whole story - and only one of them have anything to do with it in a significant manner (though significant might be stretching it). With Dany, her magical nature is only sporadically referred to (the dragons are the be all and end all) and Jon has nothing.

Show!Jon is a mortal man on every level, without a drop of magic in him. Book!Jon is no Bran, but there are three fundamental factors which show how deeply he is connected to the land.

Ghost: Removing Ghost's importance to Jon is akin to removing part of his soul. He isn't just 'big, white fluffy doggo'. Ghost is part of him, his familiar. Ghost is the physical personification of the magic running in Jon's blood, the proof of the Old Gods awareness running through Stark children's veins. Direwolves have a deeper, subtler and less apparent magic than dragons, but no less potent, and no less essential to Jon than her dragons are to Dany. Out of all the Stark siblings, Jon’s connection with Ghost and Bran’s connection with Summer seem to be the most symbiotic. All the siblings have strong bonds with their direwolves, molded to their own personality - Arya’s connection with Nymeria persists even across the sea in Essos, all legends of Robb in battle are accompanied by legends of Grey Wind and poor Rickon becomes so enmeshed in Shaggydog’s mind that there’s little to distinguish between boy and beast. However, perhaps due to the nature of their POVs and story arcs, none of the Starks save Bran and Jon have their journeys so closely aligned to their wolves. Which is why it’s nigh impossible to even consider Jon’s story moving forward without Ghost, especially post resurrection. The show omitted the obvious implication that Jon warged into Ghost before he died, had no role for him in the BoB, completely erased him in S7 and relegated him to a damn stray in S8. On the other hand, the show AMPED up the Dragon Queen part of Dany to the detriment of all other aspects of her character.

Warging: In a universe where Martin has tried his best to weave in strong magic with actual medieval politics, concentrating all Northern magic into one single character (whose surface they barely scratched) is utterly lazy storytelling. Jon's warging abilities are mighty and second perhaps only to Bran, though I hold the belief Arya is as powerful a warg. But unlike both of them, Jon seems to actively resist exploring his warging possibilities. Some of the resistance may be explained by his environment - with both the NW and the Freefolk considering warging to be something of a ‘black’ art or dark magic. Sure, the Free Folk are more open about it, with Varamyr envying Jon’s gift with Ghost in his thoughts:

“He had known what Snow was the moment he saw that great white direwolf stalking silent at his side. One skinchanger can always sense another. Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king. He could have done it, he did not doubt. The gift was strong in Snow, but the youth was untaught, still fighting his nature when he should have gloried in it.”

The show makes NO mention of it. Jon being considered a warg is a major reason behind half the NW hating and fearing him. I don’t remember the show ever bringing up the fact that Jon was feared - they seemed to make Thorne and Slynt’s animosity out of sheer spite and disgust at his bastardy.

The Lord Commander's Raven: This is a favourite obsession of mine. Old Mormont’s raven pops out at Jon at seemingly random moments, but for the reader bursting with conspiracy theories, the raven is just another nod to the fact that Jon has a far greater role to play in the story than is visible to the eye. There's a popular theory that Bloodraven wargs him from time to time, since Jon is the secondary piece on his chessboard. The raven has come to Jon’s aid atleast twice that I can remember:

When Mormont is attacked by the wight:

Jon tried to shout, but his voice was gone. Staggering to his feet, he kicked the arm away and snatched the lamp from the Old Bear's fingers. The flame flickered and almost died. "Burn!" the raven cawed. "Burn, burn, burn!"

Spinning, Jon saw the drapes he'd ripped from the window. He flung the lamp into the puddled cloth with both hands.

During the election for Lord Commander when Mormont’s raven flying to his shoulder is used as a sign by Sam to argue for Mormont’s approval of Jon as the choice.

Bastardy

Jon's entire sense of self is centered around two things:

Ned Stark is his father

He's a bastard

His entire character arc is trying live up to one of those and distance himself from the connotations of the other. His bastardy is the formative lodestone of his character and moral compass but in the EXACT opposite of how Catelyn and Westerosi society as a whole expect it to be.

However, there's a twist to that. Jon's inner desire is EXACTLY what Catelyn feared. He DOES want to be Lord of Winterfell. He DOES harbour resentment that Robb (seemingly) has everything handed to him while the best Jon can hope for is to die at his post, unknown and unsung. He DOES want glory and power and to exact some kind of revenge on a society which deemed him vile and detestable for no fault of his. All the elements for him to become the Starks' own Daemon Blackfyre is already present.

But there's one difference - Ned Stark is no Aegon the Unworthy. Even more than all of the above heart's desires, Jon wants to be like his father. He wants to do what is right. He wants his father to be proud of him. He wants to be nothing like the greedy, vengeful and lusty creature he's always been told he is. He wants to help people and stand up for the weak because that's who he is. At the very heart of it, he just wants to be loved by Ned as much as his trueborn sons. And thus he takes Tyrion's words to heart and wears his bastardy like impenetrable armour.

In show!Jon, ALL of this inner struggle is lost. Jon's bastardy is rarely affixed other than as a side. Show!Jon is a 'good' man. Yes, undoubtedly. But what makes book!Jon a great man is that he masters his baser desires to focus on what's more important. THAT'S what Jeor, Mance and Stannis all saw in him. That's why the Free Folk follow him. That's why half the NW will die for him (yes I know the other half will kill him).

When you have spent most of the show without anywhere referencing how vital the armour of bastardy, and being Ned Stark’s son is to Jon's psyche and sense of self, even the best directors will not be able to depict WHY the news of his parentage will have ripped out the ground from under him. Dany's quest for the throne is out there glaring at us thus atleast on paper making sense that having her undeniable right threatened will rattle her (I personally hate hate HATE the creative decision that Dany's immediate reaction to find out Jon's a Targaryen will be paranoia and concern for HER throne but I digress).

Intelligence, ability and cunning

Up until S4 and most of S5, show!Jon and book!Jon exhibited similar levels of intelligence and cunning. One of my favourite scenes is Sam trying to stop Jon from marching into Mance's camp to try and assassinate him. Jon gets in his face with his frustration and despair boiling and asks if he has any better ideas. At this point he's done a superb job commanding the defence of Castle Black but has also just lost Ygritte, Pyp and Grenn all in one night, a significant portion of the meagre Castle Black forces and is fully aware that they cannot survive another charge. He's beyond desperate and aware that his efforts are likely suicidal but he can't just retreat, lick his wounds and do nothing.

The show labours under the popular delusion that truly good guys can't be really smart, as being smart means preserving yourself and truly good guys will always jump into danger first to protect other people. Politics is bad so if you're a good strategist then you can't be a good person.

Both book and show characterizations of Jon have been criticized for being examples of the ‘Chosen One’ the ‘reluctant hero’ who turns out to be the right man for the job, and for painting ambition and the quest for power as negative pursuits. In the book however, Jon’s ambitions never really had a chance to form. He’s prideful enough in his abilities to believe he would be an immediate select into the elite Ranger ranks and is devastated when that doesn’t work out. By the time he’s come to terms with the fact that being Mormont’s steward means being groomed for command, the truth of the White Walkers is in front of him and that becomes his sole consideration.

To many readers, Jon’s election to Lord Commander was ‘contrived’ though I do believe Sam played the long political game as he believed his friend being in a position of power would lead to an easier path for him. However, Jon doesn’t crumple under the weight of the responsibility - his actions as Lord Commander are revolutionary enough to completely destabilize his support. The show entirely omits all the strategic parts of his negotiations with both Stannis and the Freefolk. Unlike show!Jon, book!Jon does not allow the Freefolk through the Wall only on the account of goodwill and the fear of a common enemy. He takes their children hostage to ensure compliance. He negotiates with the Iron Bank for a loan to stave off starvation come winter. He repopulates the Gift with Free Folk. He shelters, counsels and aids Stannis. He addresses almost every logistical and material issue he can think except for the most fundamental - his people.

On the other hand, there’s no strategic and political angle to Show!Jon in S6 and S7, instead being posited only as warrior extraordinaire.

'The greatest swordsman in the North' - but too naive to not keep the sister who tricked him almost to his death at arm's length. Brave, loyal and courageous beyond belief - but completely befuddled by politicking. Immediately trusting a sister he’s never been close to and who has been Littlefinger’s pupil for a considerable time.

Book!Jon's abilities as a leader are sorely underappreciated, especially considering that his tenure as Lord Commander saw the status quo of almost every aspect of NW life upended. The previous LC is killed in a mutiny. The Wildling army launch an attack. The Others finally rise. A King/King Claimant FINALLY takes the NW's warnings seriously. The Wildlings are brought south of the Wall.

Despite being a new beginning for all recruits, the Night's Watch is the one order in Westeros whose traditions and rules have not changed in millennia. Understaffed, under-resourced and facing a threat the likes of which people would struggle to comprehend, Jon does the best he can. His major mistake is one most young leaders make, and that is assume all of those under automatically understand his reasons for doing what he does.

Relationships

Brother:

If there's one role Jon takes more seriously than 'Ned Stark's son, it's that of brother. Book!Jon is pretty much the pinnacle of brotherly love - Robb's right hand, Arya's champion and dutiful protector to both Bran and Rickon. There's a subtle tragedy in this too - despite how much his siblings love him, all of them, including Arya, have othered him. He's brother, but only half. Snow, not a Stark. The last in the list. 'The last brother left to me' - as felt by both Robb and Sansa.

Book!Jon and Show!Jon are both shown to be loving, dutiful brothers but once again the show is incapable of portraying more than one character at a time in a certain way. Thus all of Jon's brotherly love is concentrated on Sansa, the sibling he was least close to. Show!Jon never mentions Robb after his death mentions Arya not at all when book!Jon never stops thinking about the two of them.

Maybe, maybe if the show had bothered to flesh out Jon Snow's emotional attachment to his home and siblings, his dilemma between his family and Dany wouldn't have been so shoddy.

Friend:

Book!Jon, despite his aloof demeanour attracts fast friends. His staunchest supporters in the NW are those who he befriended when he first stepped within the gates. He's the only one to ever have stood up for many of them. And it's his NW friends who do become truly brothers, as they see and stand beside him during his rise to leadership.

Show!Jon is no different - he's got his loyal friends but there was no apparent discord after him being elected LC. Which is surprising considering that this is the moment that Jon effectively decides to ‘Kill the boy.’ The Gilly baby switch storyline is completely done away with, probably because it is the one decision that very clearly paints Jon as grey. The book Sam struggles to understand this decision - in his mind his best friend would never have done that. Maester Aemon is the one who sets him straight - Jon is no longer just a brother of the Watch, he’s the Lord Commander now. He can no longer be taking decisions just as Sam’s friend.

The show never really dwelt on the chasm Jon’s position as a leader would have created with his brothers who till them were his equals. Book!Jon knowingly starts distancing himself and this is a flaw that comes back to stab him in the chest - again a misstep in one raised to leadership at a young age.

Lover:

This part will be a bit of a cop-out since at this point the only common love interest between the books and the show is Ygritte. The show axed Val, who’s one of my favourite secondary characters and my main preference for a Jon pairing pre-Dany. And of course, there’s far too much plot to cover before Jon and Dany even meet in the book (if they’re ever finished).

There are factions of the fandom who don’t think the Jon and Dany romance in S7 was set up convincingly. Admittedly that’s going to be hard for me to judge fairly as I’ve been in the Jonerys camp ever since ADWD made it clear how Jon was growing as a leader and as a magical touchstone in direct parallels to Dany. It definitely helped that Kit’s portrayal of Jon had FINALLY started to appeal to me once The Watchers of the Wall aired. I’d been one of the many fans who had been waiting for these two to meet on the show - and though I personally found the Jon-Dany relationship progression to be one of the few good things about S7, I can perhaps get why many neutral fans (i.e not commited to any rival ships for either Jon or Dany) think its out of character for them to be so involved so soon.

There are plenty of popular assumptions perpetuated by the show which have no backup in the original material - one of them is ‘dumb, lovable idiot’ Jon paired with the ‘awkward and oblivious as fuck with women’ Jon. Now, I’ll not deny that the latter portrayal works QUITE well with show!Jon (Kit’s face is the perfect cast for this characterization) but I just don’t see it working with book!Jon. The boy isn’t seeking out women but its not like he’s not around them. Alys Karstark was quite obviously taken with him, and I doubt Jon missed it, but there were far greater things of import to consider for both of them - I saw no awkwardness in the text. Jon dislikes Selyse and manages to be both cordial and deferential as required. Melisandre makes no secret of her fascination with him - there’s no bumbling awkwardness there either. And Val - he’s quite smitten and there’s some awkwardness there, sure but its hardly the bumbling variety.

As for Dany - considering that at this point the 7 seasons of the show is all we will ever have, I somehow think the softer show!Jon makes a much better pairing with the more hardened show!Dany. Its as if certain aspects of their personalities were flipped in the show - book!Dany is definitely much softer and gentle without her power and strength being diminished, whereas book!Jon is far more calculated and ruthless without compromising on his honour and integrity.

#jon snow #book!jon #show!jon #ASoIaF #game of thrones #nights watch #asoiaf val #jonerys

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jonsnowloversunite · 4 years

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Jon Snow’s Bastard Complex

The trauma can be traced back to Jon’s childhood. In what is commonly known as a flashback, painful, suppressed memories surface from the unconscious.

He was almost ready to lower his blade and call a halt when Emmett feinted low and came in over his shield with a savage forehand slash that caught Jon on the temple. He staggered, his helm and head both ringing from the force of the blow. For half a heartbeat the world beyond his eyeslit was a blur.

And then the years were gone, and he was back at Winterfell once more, wearing a quilted leather coat in place of mail and plate. His sword was made of wood, and it was Robb who stood facing him, not Iron Emmett.

Every morning they had trained together, since they were big enough to walk; Snow and Stark, spinning and slashing about the wards of Winterfell, shouting and laughing, sometimes crying when there was no one else to see. They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." Or Robb would say, "I'm the Young Dragon," and Jon would reply, "I'm Ser Ryam Redwyne." That morning he called it first. "I'm Lord of Winterfell!" he cried, as he had a hundred times before. Only this time, this time, Robb had answered, "You can't be Lord of Winterfell, you're bastard-born. My lady mother says you can't ever be the Lord of Winterfell.”

I thought I had forgotten that. Jon could taste blood in his mouth, from the blow he'd taken.

In the end Halder and Horse had to pull him away from Iron Emmett, one man on either arm. The ranger sat on the ground dazed, his shield half in splinters, the visor of his helm knocked askew, and his sword six yards away. "Jon, enough," Halder was shouting, "he's down, you disarmed him. Enough!" (ASOS, Jon XII)

The social stigma of being a bastard was an emotionally traumatic experience for him and caused a splintering of his psyche. He had spent his entire life suppressing his desire for Winterfell because it was viewed as not only unattainable, but also unacceptable. The complex is readily personified through dreams as the psyche’s attempt at integration.

The castle is always empty. Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream. That's when I always wake."

The fracture of Jon’s psyche is maintained through fear and resistance. By not accepting that his feelings are valid, this piece of him remains underdeveloped, thus becoming shadow material.

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. A hunger . . . he could feel it. It was food he needed, prey, a red deer that stank of fear or a great elk proud and defiant. He needed to kill and fill his belly with fresh meat and hot dark blood. His mouth began to water with the thought. (ASOS, Jon XII)

Even when presented with the opportunity to be legitimized and awarded Winterfell, Jon refuses, saying that he doesn’t want to take away Sansa’s claim. But I think it goes much deeper than that as he is operating out of a place of trauma rooted in a classist society.

#jon snow #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #book!jon #psyche #complexes #psychological analysis #fear #trauma #bastard of winterfell #bastardry #classism #my analysis #labeling #streotype #discrimination #exclusion

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fortunatelylori · 5 years

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When Jon and Sansa think about each other

Book dabbles

I debated a lot before writing this because to be honest I’m no book expert and also the topic of Jon and Sansa thinking about each other in the A Song of Ice and Fire series has been covered so extensively in our corner of the fandom and by some truly fantastic meta writers.

But some thoughts did occur to me and I thought I might as well share them … :)

The main thing that has always struck me about Jon and Sansa’s thoughts on each other is not only just how rarely they occur. In Jon’s case, in particular, it’s quite strange to say the least because he doesn’t think about her even in moments where it’s practically impossible for him not to even spare her a thought.

However, sparse as they are, what I find truly moving about their thoughts about one another is that they concern two important aspects.

In Jon’s case, his thoughts on Sansa are centered around her romanticism, her wonderment at beauty and her love of songs.

He thought of Sansa, brushing out Lady’s coat and singing to herself

This is a particularly idyllic memory he’s picked there. Almost intimate I dare say. This is speculation, of course, but it does conjure up that image of watching someone you admire from afar, so to speak.

Sansa would call this an enchantment, and tears would fill her eyes at the wonder of it

This is one of my favorite quotes from the books because it feels so true to Sansa’s character and her desire to see the best in the world, to be filled with wonder at it and be moved to tears by beauty. The fact that, for some reason, Jon knows this about her always manages to surprise me.

There’s also a pretty stark contrast between his imaginings on Sansa’s reactions and Arya’s reactions.

“Sansa’s eyes filled with tears at the wonder of it” is very much an image he will be struck by later on when he meets Ygritte whom he starts falling for partly because she would cry when she talked about giants or sang songs.

Of Arya, he says this:

but Arya would run out laughing and shouting, wanting to touch it all

Clearly this is not the kind of reaction Jon is having at the moment. He’s pensive and blown away by the view (“there was magic beyond the wall after all”). His reaction is much closer to his imagined Sansa than his imagined Arya who, here, is placed in the role of the noisy, cheerful child, who is running around happily while the two “adults” look on.

But what is the most interesting thing about these quotes is that Jon, out of all the Stark children, is the only one to think of those characteristics of Sansa in a positive way. Bran also makes mention of Sansa’s love for songs but he calls the songs she likes “stupid”. Arya thinks most of what Sansa does and says is stupid. And we never get access to Robb’s thoughts but he doesn’t appear to spare Sansa much thought at all. Jon alone seems to be the one to value these aspects of Sansa that are so integral to her character.

Also noteworthy that while in the beginning Jon’s thoughts on Arya and Sansa are conflagrated:

He missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but “my half brother” since she was old enough to understand what bastard meant.

The girls do not even have that much, he thought. Their wolves might have kept them safe, but Lady is dead and Nymeria’s lost, they’re all alone.

As the story progresses, his thoughts on the two split more and more and are often given in contrast to one another, as Jon begins to reflect on the two as individuals instead of “the girls”. This is far more important for Sansa than it is for Arya since Jon and Arya’s relationship is much more prominent in Jon’s thoughts so far, in the story.

The other important aspect here is that just as Jon begins to reveal his appreciation of Sansa’s romanticism, her qualities as a lady and her love for songs, Sansa is slowly beginning to lose those things. First she loses Lady, a loss Jon comprehends on a level that even Ned ignores. She also begins to say things like:

I thought my song was beginning that day. But it was almost done.

There were no heroes. In real life, monsters always win.

There is even a contrasting image of what Jon conjured up on the Wall, when Sansa enters the gardens of the Eeryie. But while she is struck by the beauty of it all just like Jon imagined, she also thinks this:

A pure world. I do not belong here.

This is often taken as Sansa saying that her place was in Winterfell but I also think this is Sansa internalizing her abuse to such a degree that she no longer feels worthy or “pure”. *cue me ugly crying here*

In order for her to regain those aspects of herself that abuse and isolation have stripped away from her, she’s going to need someone who knew just how important those characteristics were as well as have a true appreciation for them. Need I say more …

In Sansa’s case, the most moving aspect of her thoughts on Jon is that she considers things that others don’t, for whatever reason. All the Stark children think fondly on Jon when they think of him but Sansa finds herself wondering about his actual, current situation.

This quote here in particular is immensely interesting:

If this was what the Night's Watch was truly like, she felt sorry for her bastard half brother, Jon.

Faced with the reality of what the Night’s Watch actually is, instead of the brave and heroic Black Knights she was lead to believe protected the realm from unknown “invaders”, Sansa feels sorry for Jon. The reason why this is so moving to me is because it encapsulates Jon’s entire Night’s Watch drama. He goes to the wall thinking he’s going to join this illustrious and respectable Brotherhood of honorable Knights only to be faced with the reality of a group of thieves and rapists or simple, poor boys forced to go to a place where they’ll likely starve, freeze to death or be murdered because they had no other choice. Talk about a rude awakening! And Sansa of all people is the one that acknowledges this and empathizes with Jon’s plight.

And then there’s the famous:

She had not thought of Jon in ages. He was only her half brother, but still . . . with Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her. I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again.

This is quite the leap Sansa made from this:

It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard, like their half brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon's mother had been common, or so people whispered.

Every anti-Sansa commentary circles back to her derision of Jon as a bastard. And you can clearly see in the second quote just how low an opinion she had of the position to begin with. She even thinks Jon’s mother must have been common, because how else would he have ended up a bastard? Also Arya’s attitude disturbs her to such a degree that she thinks it would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard as well.

But easier how? I think the answer is that if Arya had been a bastard, Sansa would have been able to find a more suitable place for her in her world view. She’s been trained to think that bastards by nature are lacking in some way, are less suitable for respectable society than legally born children and because Arya’s behavior is so out of the spectrum of what she’s been led to believe is “normal”, bastardhood would have offered an explanation.

And so I must ask, is it a coincidence that Sansa finds herself in the position of becoming a bastard herself? Of suffering people’s suspicions of her nature, their insults and humiliations? Is it GRRM punishing her for the thoughts that her society put in her head since she was old enough to speak? Or is it perhaps a way for her to understand Jon’s situation and his frustrations in a way that she could never do before? Is it likely she’ll think the same of him, after her own experiences? And after conveniently spending part of her Eeryie arc around two other bastards?

There’s already a marked difference between the Alayne quote and the Night’s Watch quote in terms of how she refers to him. In the Night’s watch quote she calls him “her bastard half brother” which feels like overkill, like she has to clearly state his exact position to keep it straight in her head, lest she slip and think of him in a more affectionate way. In the Alayne quote she abandons the “bastard” before “half brother” all together and then brings it up as a way for her to breach the divide she most assuredly knows is there.

It would be easy to imagine Sansa saying to Jon: “I was a bastard just like you. I understand now.” in order to try and forge a relationship with him, once they’re reunited.

On love:

These quotes are obviously not Jon and Sansa thinking about each other but I do think there’s something interesting about how they connect.

When Sansa is dealing with the Tyrells and thinking about a possible marriage to Willas Tyrell, this is the image that she comes up with of her married life:

She pictured the two of them sitting together in a garden with puppies in their laps, or listening to a singer strum upon a lute while they floated down the Mander on a pleasure barge.

On the other hand, Jon has started a relationship with Ygritte, he just had sex for the first time and is a very young man. This is the time he should probably work on perfecting his first imagined porno flick. However, this is what he thinks about:

If I could show her Winterfell…give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us.

Both of these quotes have very little to do with their respective partners. Sansa has never met Willas. He might be allergic to puppies for all she knows. On the other hand, Jon knows that him doing any of the things he wants to do with Ygritte would be impossible because she’s not the type of woman to be gifted flowers, be dined in the Great Hall or appreciate the stone kings that are probably responsible for keeping her people beyond the wall for centuries.

However, looking at both those quotes, what stands out is just how similar they are. Both Jon and Sansa conjure images of domestic bliss, filled with romance and tranquility. Also, for some strange reason, both Jon and Sansa think of being with their respective partners in water … Granted, Sansa also wants puppies and she doesn’t think about making love beneath the stars but she’s a sheltered and very young girl who thinks kissing is about the most risqué thing you can do.

You can kind of see just how easily both their fantasies could fit together in a way that wouldn’t rob one or the other of what they want.

Lastly, I’ll leave you with this:

If I could show her Winterfell…give her a flower from the glass gardens …

One of the main reasons why Sansa became romantically interested in Loras Tyrell was because he gifted her a rose at the joust. Jon wants to woo his lady love with flowers from the glass gardens. I say they should just skip the middle man. Also, Jon should get a hold of some puppies to seal the deal … And maybe some kittens too … It’s important to be original, after all.

*gifs do not belong to me!

#jonsa #jon x sansa #jonsa is endgame #actually jonsa #jon x sansa meta #jonsa meta

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padawan-historian · 5 years

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The Female Game: An Analysis of the Stormborn Dragon

SPOILER warning for Season 8, Episode 1-3 and more of a SPOILER WATCH for Season 8, Episode 4 (no plot related details, but . . . a teaspoon of character and tone vibes from the episode).

Now I know we are still wrapping our heads around what we witnessed last night on Game of Thrones. But there was one discussion that caught my attention – Daenerys character development (or lack thereof) and how women are represented on the show:

i hate that ambition in women is always used as a bad trait.

All her hard work and talk of breaking the wheel for nothing. All this talk of her being different and just and “see you for who you are” for absolutely nothing.

They should rename season 8 to “the tale of how we trashed a character’s development, made her an army of haters, just so we could make Jon Snow a hero: A study on Daenerys Targaryen.”

they really are setting up “Mad Queen” Dany and I’ll be honest, I don’t blame her at this point.

If a man acted that way it would be perfectly fine.

every single woman on game of thrones deserves better.

Ever since Game of Thrones graced the stage seven years ago, a number of fans, critics and activists have voiced concerns about the way the show portrays violence (especially sexual violence) towards female characters. However, those concerns have slowly evolved into larger conversations about the way these heroines are portrayed in comparison to power. Westeros – and most of the known world in the show – are under a patriarchal system. Men have inheritance rights, new wives join their husbands’ families and male children are given precedent over their older sisters and female relations in the line of succession (they call this primogeniture). Attempts at female rule are rare and even more rarely achieved without a healthy dose of fire and blood (search The Princess and the Queen on YouTube for more context and a juicy history lesson!).

Suspicion and hesitancy towards female rule is common in our real world (i.e. 2016 election) and is, unfortunately, not a new phenomenon. Prominent theologian, wrote in his 1558 piece, The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstruous Regiment of Women, that, “To promote a woman to beare rule, superioritie, dominion or empire aboue any realme, nation, or citie, is repugnant to nature, contumelie to God, a thing most contrarious to his reueled will and approued ordinance, and finallie it is the subuersion of good order, of all equitie and iustice”(Knox). Across Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism there exist exclusionary mindsets in regards to women in power dating back to antiquity. However, there are also examples of women overcoming the restrictions and barriers of their societies, such as the prominence and elevation of women within certain patriarchal systems (including Egypt, the Tang Dynasty of China, the Mongolian Empire and beyond) . Even today, within many Native American and West African communities, femaleness is connected to spiritualism – unseen forces are often defined as female, such as goddesses and masked spirits, and are often interpreted by priestesses, prophetesses, healers, fortune tellers, and female shamans. However, the dominant culture that defines our 21st century world is, largely, patriarchal and continues to prosper through the oppression of women – and, to an extent, men.

Power is power – and there is power in subjugation.

(Sidney Note: The glass ceiling metaphor should be viewed with some context – as should my statement above ^^ While times have changed and we now have female executives, college presidents, directors, governors, ambassadors and presidential candidates there are still inequities that exist. The metaphor implies that women and men have equal access to entry- and mid-level positions (Eagly and Carli). They do not. Rather than a ceiling to break through, women often have to struggle through a labyrinth, a maze filled with dead ends, false leads and towering walls. The labyrinth is even more suffocating for minority and marginalized women.

But back to the Game of Thrones universe . . . While most of the main characters have divided the fan base at some point in time (remember how we used to hate Cersei and then we felt bad and now . . . we kind of hate her again?) the discourse around Daenerys has been relatively consistent. While some see the Dragon Queen as an entitled, power-hungry tyrant slowly turning into the Mad Queen, others view her in a more sympathetic light. Daenerys – like many women – exist within a labyrinth. At the end is the Iron Throne. But the roads, for much of her life, were determined for her. Her (thankfully) deceased brother Viserys sold her in exchange for military support. Even after his golden death, Dany was still trapped in the maze, struggling to navigate the seemingly endless corridors. She has been raped, abandoned, deceived and . . . perhaps, most damning of all, she has been wrong.

Dany has made some questionable choices throughout her reign and while this is nothing new when it comes to GOT characters, what is new is that she is in a position of considerable power. Besides Cersei and, at one time, Grandma Olenna, Daenerys is one of the most powerful women in the series. Her dragons carry the weight of nuclear weapons and, after taking several fiery walks, hatching (or incubating) three ancient creatures an liberating a city from the chains of slavery . . . well, you can see why she thinks her destiny is to sit upon the Iron Throne.

Recently, the discourse about the portrayal of women in cinema has lit a fuse within the feminist movement. While I will say that some people tend to over analyze the actions of every character - relating them back to contemporary issues, it’s no state secret that female characters are often held to a very unhealthy set of standards:

Be strong, but not emasculating.

Be desirable, but not whorish.

Be charming, but not condescending.

Be ambitious, but not too ambitious.

The criticism about her representation in the show I think comes from a place of genuine concern. These fans want her to succeed because, seven hells, this woman has been through A LOT. And while there is a dose of sexism in the discourse, I do think that some of the backlash towards the show and creative team is unwarranted.

Daenerys Stormborn is NOT the protagonist in the traditional sense. She is a principle character who is heavily featured in both the books and Martin’s 5 novels. If you look at the charts below, people (who are more tech savvy than me) created comparison charts to help determine principle characters:

You may not like that Jon is painted as the hero or that Tyrion is featured prominently, but EVERY character has faced failures and loss in this series.

The freedom to lead is not freedom from failure.

No character is entirely good or entirely bad – Dany included. From white savior to female icon, Daenerys has been a polarizing character since season 1. She has made choices that, even when justifiable, were not . . . the most diplomatic solutions. She has a temper. She can be impulsive. But she is also affectionate with her friends. She is nurturing towards her dragons (in the books, her ancestors used whips to direct their dragons). She is also a queen . . . living in a patriarchal system that Aegon Targaryen established almost 300 years prior. She is single handedly trying to undo 300 years of patriarchal feudalism. That’s a pretty ambitious goal!

While Westerosi politics are similar to our own, they do not have cemented democratic institutions. The Night’s Watch is probably the closest example we have of a meritocracy (rule by merit or ability). The majority of the kingdom falls under the rule of one monarch who distributes semiautonomous authority through bonds of vassalage.

Change requires sacrifice . . . and compromise.

When was the last time you saw a high fantasy where, at one point, there were 5 women in positions of power? The closest moment in European history where that was a thing was when Catherine the Great of Russia, Madame de Pompadour, the Mistress of the King of France, and Empress Maria Theresa of the Holy Roman Empire combined their forces to fight against Fredrick II of Prussia during the 7 Years War (Fred was kinda a misogynist and coined the phrase The League of the Three Petticoats to describe the three women). Even in early English history, women who fought for power, like Isabella of France and Margaret of Anjou, were dubbed as she-wolves or reckless, power-hungry queens. Hmmm . . . sound familiar?

Now Dany does have a temper. But so did Robert Baratheon. She can be impulsive. She has a sense of entitlement, as do most monarchs and presidents. She is compassionate, loyal to her friends and nurturing towards her dragons (in the books, her ancestors used whips to direct their dragons). She likes to be in control, but she is also willing to listen to others. But she does get angry and she does have insecurities. She is also a human and – like most humans – she is a bundle of idiosyncrasies, conflicting ideas, blinding anxieties and soaring dreams.

Are there problems with the series? Yes.

Have female (and male) characters been portrayed in ways that are questionable? Yeah.

Would a more socially conscious director craft a different narrative or create a more dynamic story? Maybe.

Are you still gonna watch the next episode this Sunday? Most likely.

If you look for flaws, you will find flaws – because, this story was not created by you. So write your own story, whip up a fanfic or make a headcannon!

And besides, there are plenty of real world issues surrounding women that you can (and should) put your energy towards.

#wow + beyond #wow analysis #game of thrones #got analysis #daenerys targaryen #feminism #women of wonder and beyond #writing #character development #fantasy writing

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alleiradayne · 7 years

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A Game of Highs and Lows S07x06: Beyond the Wall

And we're back! I've been swamped with loads of writing the last few days for upcoming events. Which means I’m so glad this show is done after this weekend. Let’s hop right to it.

Highlight: I’m really grasping at straws here, but like, I chuckled when Sandor impaled the super special wight on one of Drogon’s spines. Otherwise, I got nothing.

Lowlights: I can’t pick one. I just can’t. The entire fucking episode is my lowlight.

The Pacing

What even was this? Like, so much happened without the passage of anywhere near enough time, I’m baffled. There’s no way these dudes survived on a rock in the completely frozen north. And how convenient that wights are so dumb they didn’t know the lake froze over again until Sandor’s dumbass started throwing rocks at them.

Gendry makes it back to Eastwatch in what must be a world fucking record. And a raven makes it to Dragonstone in hours. And Dany makes it to their exact location in another handful of hours.

Hope this is dramatically satisfying television, guys.

And that’s just the pacing beyond the wall, forget Winterhell. Why did Arya and Sansa have a sort amicable reunion, but then, without preamble, jump right back into being catty? What happened? Where’s the impetus for Arya to dislike Sansa so much five minutes later? The letter showed up after Arya started being mean to Sansa? The organization of these events is so out of fucking order. It would have made some – not much but some – sense, to have Arya be nice to Sansa for a bit, then find the letter, then get up on her soap box.

And Dragonstone was simply bad dialogue that I’ll get into in a minute.

Nothing really happened in this episode except for maybe a wight dragon. Which I have no feelings for because Dany didn’t give two shits about Viseryon, either.

The Dialogue

There’s no logic here at all. Every conversation is stupid and awful. None of them are important or poignant or interesting, they’re all quite boring and predictable. Anything with Tormund in it is about fighting and fucking. Anything with Sandor in it is about how gods and religion suck. Anything with Jon in it is … nothing. The other people don’t make any fucking sense being there, and thus their dialogue makes no fucking sense either.

I am not okay with brushing off someone’s very real sexual assault unless you’re punching at the person who is minimizing said assault. Like if Beric and Tormund and Sandor had been made out to be assholes for giving Gendry so much shit, I’d be completely fine with it. But nope. Gendry is made out to be a whiny bitch and it’s played for laughs. Hah, sexual assault and torture is hilarious! /eyeroll

Sansa and Arya arguing was a bunch of nonversations again. Arya just talked over her about stupid shit. There’s more to unpack here, but I’ll get to that in a minute.

More stellar Tyrion fellating at Dragonstone, but this time it’s coupled with the wonderful infantilizing of Dany. And the horrible seeding of Jon x Dany? I’ve read better fanfic on AO3. Like loads better. A thousand times better.

The Characters

I don’t even know who these people are. I despise what they’ve done to Tormund; he has daughters that he loves very much and is even brought to tears when thinking about them on a couple occasions. He’s terrified for them. You wouldn’t know that by watching the show though, he’s all about fighting and fucking and Brienne the Big Woman™.

But more than that, I despise what they’ve done to Arya and Sansa. These sisters are supposed to be major parallels throughout the entire story. Arya doesn’t hate Sansa, she hates herself for not being as good at feminine coded skills as her sister. Sansa never really cared about Arya beyond what happened on the King’s Road in AGoT, and even then, she puts all of that at Cersei’s feet eventually.

When they’re separated, their journeys take them on incredibly similar paths that are remarkably perfect for their skill sets. But both are learning to hide their identity in a myriad of ways. Except not on this show. Sansa has learned next to nothing besides that the world sucks. And Arya has learned even less, that she can be an asshole and do whatever she wants and get away with it all the time.

What baffles me is that their reunion was boring, but not hostile in the least. Suddenly, Arya starts in on Sansa for no reason? Giving her shit for staying in their parent’s bedroom – which doesn’t make sense, Sansa is the Lady of Winterhell now, she should be living in that room – and liking nice things and still being all ladylike.

Hot take: being lady like is a-okay. Being ladylike is a completely acceptable way of conducting oneself, especially given the constraints of roles available to women in Westeros.

Another hot take: there’s nothing wrong with rejecting those constraints and doing your own thing too. Brienne did it, although she suffers much internal strife for it in a beautifully nuanced way.

Point is, neither of these things are the right way to exist. But Arya is insisting that. She is insistent on the fact that being lady like and liking pretty things and having pretty hair and whatever other feminine coded things this show likes to shit on are bad and wrong. And that Arya’s tomboy nature is right. She even fucking says this exact thing:

“I knew that what I was doing was against the rules, but he was smiling, so I knew it wasn’t wrong. The rules were wrong.”

I … yeah, the rules suck, they’re the result of a patriarchal society, but this is not the way to challenge them!

And how convenient for the writers that Arya ignores everything Sansa says. Sansa has several good points when she gets a word in, but Arya ignores her and keeps right on trucking with all her bullshit. I just can’t with all this faux feminism.

I swear if they somehow come together and become bffs because of Littlefinger next episode, I’ll laugh my tits off. Seriously, this is so whack, I have no idea how they’ll ever get to that point.

The Dramatically Satisfying Moments

Each of them fell flat. Thoros dying, Dany saving the day, Viseryon dying because of that, Dany and Jon falling in love in a matter of seconds, Sansa finding the messenger bag of faces, Arya being a jerk. None of it really hit home.

This was a jumbled mess of frustrated thoughts. I want to like this show so bad but even my husband, who has been a huge fan of the show through season 6, is starting to see how fucked up it is.

Until next week folks! The final episode to cap off this ridiculous season, thank the Maker.

#got #game of thrones #spoilers #a game of highs and lows #got spoilers

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allbestnet · 7 years

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Top 200 Books 2000-2010

The Kite Runner (2003) by Khaled Hosseini

The Hunger Games (2008) by Suzanne Collins

Cloud Atlas (2004) by David Mitchell

The Help (2009) by Kathryn Stockett

House of Leaves (2000) by Mark Z. Danielewski

American Gods (2001) by Neil Gaiman

World War Z (2006) by Max Brooks

Life of Pi (2001) by Yann Martel

The Kingkiller Chronicle (2007) by Patrick Rothfuss

The Heroes of Olympus (2010) by Rick Riordan

The Road (2006) by Cormac McCarthy

Looking for Alaska (2005) by John Green

The Book Thief (2006) by Markus Zusak

A Thousand Splendid Suns (2007) by Khaled Hosseini

We Need to Talk About Kevin (2003) by Lionel Shriver

The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time (2003) by Mark Haddon

The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay (2000) by Michael Chabon

The Time Traveler's Wife (2003) by Audrey Niffenegger

Atonement (2001) by Ian McEwan

No Country for Old Men (2005) by Cormac McCarthy

Middlesex (2002) by Jeffrey Eugenides

Percy Jackson & the Olympians (2005) by Rick Riordan

The Glass Castle (2005) by Jeannette Walls

People's History of the United States (2010) by Howard Zinn

Water for Elephants (2006) by Sara Gruen

Moneyball (2003) by Michael Lewis

The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas (2006) by John Boyne

Everything is Illuminated (2002) by Jonathon Safran Foer

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Fun Home (2006) by Alison Bechdel

The Shadow of the Wind (2001) by Carlos Ruiz Zafon

Scott Pilgrim (2010) by Bryan O'Malley

Outliers (2008) by Malcolm Gladwell

Thirteen Reasons Why (2007) by Jay Asher

Shantaram (2003) by Gregory David Roberts

The Invention of Hugo Cabret (2007) by Brian Selznick

The Walking Dead (2003) by Robert Kirkman

Hush, Hush (2009) by Becca Fitzpatrick

Lovely Bones (2002) by Alice Seybold

Paper Towns (2008) by John Green

Under the Dome (2009) by Stephen King

The Blind Assassin (2000) by Margaret Atwood

The Graveyard Book (2008) by Neil Gaiman

The Omnivore's Dilemma (2006) by Michael Pollan

The Last Song (2009) by Nicholas Sparks

Unwind (2007) by Neal Shusterman

The Maze Runner (2009) by James Dashner

Kafka on the Shore (2002) by Haruki Murakami

The Other Boleyn Girl (2001) by Philippa Gregory

The Last Lecture (2008) by Randy Pausch

The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian (2007) by Sherman Alexie

Marley & Me (2005) by John Grogan

Diary of a Wimpy Kid (2007) by Jeff Kinney

My Sister's Keeper (2004) by Jodi Picoult

The God Delusion (2006) by Richard Dawkins

The Art of Racing in the Rain (2008) by Garth Stein

The Passage (2010) by Justin Cronin

The Dresden Files (2000) by Jim Butcher

A Short History of Nearly Everything (2003) by Bill Bryson

The Lucky One (2008) by Nicholas Sparks

Vampire Academy (2007) by Richelle Mead

Old Man's War (2005) by John Scalzi

Graceling (2008) by Kristin Cashore

The Devil in the White City (2003) by Erik Larson

Crank (2004) by Ellen Hopkins

The Five People You Meet in Heaven (2003) by Mitch Albom

Getting Things Done (2002) by David Allen

White Teeth (2000) by Zadie Smith

The Truth About Forever (2004) by Sarah Dessen

Coraline (2002) by Neil Gaiman

Freakonomics (2005) by Steven D. Levitt

The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society (2008) by Mary Ann Shaffer

Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell (2004) by Susanna Clarke

What Is the What (2006) by Dave Eggers

The Corrections (2001) by Jonathan Franzen

Fingersmith (2002) by Sarah Waters

Shutter Island (2003) by Dennis Lehane

Noughts & Crosses (2001) by Malorie Blackman

Cutting for Stone (2009) by Abraham Verghese

Snow Flower and the Secret Fan (2005) by Lisa See

The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks (2010) by Rebecca Skloot

The Zombie Survival Guide (2003) by Max Brooks

Room (2010) by Emma Donoghue

Nineteen Minutes (2007) by Jodi Picoult

John Adams (2001) by David G. McCullough

On Writing (2000) by Stephen King

Sarah's Key (2006) by Tatiana de Rosnay

Fablehaven (2010) by Brandon Mull

The Tipping Point (2000) by Malcolm Gladwell

The Hero with a Thousand Faces (2008) by Joseph Campbell

The Tale of Despereaux (2003) by Kate DiCamillo

An Abundance of Katherines (2006) by John Green

Abhorsen (2003) by Garth Nix

The 48 Laws of Power (2007) by Robert Greene

1Q84 (2009) by Haruki Murakami

The House of the Scorpion (2002) by Nancy Farmer

Blink (2005) by Malcolm Gladwell

Anathem (2008) by Neal Stephenson

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2005) by Stieg Larsson

The Namesake (2003) by Jhumpa Lahiri

City of Thieves (2008) by David Benioff

Skulduggery Pleasant (2007) by Derek Landy

Along for the Ride (2009) by Sarah Dessen

Civil War (2007) by Shelby Foote

The Mysterious Benedict Society (2007) by Trenton Lee Stewart

The Human Stain (2000) by Philip Roth

The Miraculous Journey of Edward Tulane (2006) by Kate DiCamillo

Me Talk Pretty One Day (2000) by David Sedaris

The Guardian (2003) by Nicholas Sparks

The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao (2007) by Junot Diaz

Kitchen Confidential (2000) by Anthony Bourdain

Columbine (2009) by Dave Cullen

Catching Fire (2009) by Suzanne Collins

Never Let Me Go (2005) by Kazuo Ishiguro

Bonesetter's Daughter (2001) by Amy Tan

Infidel (2006) by Ayaan Hirsi Ali

One Day (2009) by David Nicholls

Impulse (2007) by Ellen Hopkins

Peter and the Starcatchers (2004) by Dave Barry

Team of Rivals (2005) by Doris Kearns Goodwin

The Shock Doctrine (2007) by Naomi Klein

Just Kids (2010) by Patti Smith

Mountains Beyond Mountains (2003) by Tracy Kidder

Fallen (2009) by Lauren Kate

Mockingjay (2010) by Suzanne Collins

The Choice (2007) by Nicholas Sparks

Blankets (2003) by Craig Thompson

New Encyclopaedia Britannica (2010) by

Fast Food Nation (2002) by Eric Schlosser

Leviathan (2009) by Scott Westerfeld

When You Reach Me (2009) by Rebecca Stead

Mystic River (2001) by Dennis Lehane

Wolf Hall (2009) by Hilary Mantel

The History of Love (2005) by Nicole Krauss

Hex Hall (2010) by Rachel Hawkins

God Is Not Great (2007) by Christopher Hitchens

Porno (2002) by Irvine Welsh

The City of Ember (2003) by Jeanne DuPrau

Elantris (2005) by Brandon Sanderson

Half of a Yellow Sun (2007) by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie

Anansi Boys (2005) by Neil Gaiman

I Am Number Four (2010) by Pittacus Lore

Lock and Key (2008) by Sarah Dessen

Gilead (2004) by Marilynne Robinson

Inkheart (2003) by Cornelia Funke

Before I Fall (2010) by Lauren Oliver

Unaccustomed Earth (2008) by Jhumpa Lahiri

Under the Skin (2000) by Michel Faber

The 3 Mistakes of My Life (2008) by Chetan Bhagat

City of Bones (2007) by Cassandra Clare

Blue Like Jazz (2003) by Donald Miller

Year of Wonders (2001) by Geraldine Brooks

Because of Winn-Dixie (2000) by Kate DiCamillo

2666 (2004) by Roberto Bolano

Breaking Dawn (2008) by Stephenie Meyer

Rich Dad Poor Dad (2000) by Robert Kiyosaki

Under the Banner of Heaven (2003) by Jon Krakauer

Wintergirls (2009) by Laurie Halse Anderson

Stargirl (2000) by Jerry Spinelli

A Bend in the Road (2001) by Nicholas Sparks

Odd Thomas (2003) by Dean Koontz

Good to Great (2001) by James C. Collins

The White Tiger (2008) by Aravind Adiga

The Secret (2006) by Rhonda Byrne

Eat, Pray, Love (2006) by Elizabeth Gilbert

Burned (2007) by Ellen Hopkins

World Without End (2007) by Ken Follett

Matched (2010) by Ally Condie

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Altered Carbon (2002) by Richard K. Morgan

A New Earth (2005) by Eckhart Tolle

When You Are Engulfed in Flames (2008) by David Sedaris

The Morganville Vampires (2006) by Rachel Caine

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The Children of Hurin (2007) by J.R.R. Tolkien

John Dies at the End (2007) by Jason Pargin

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Plain Truth (2001) by Jodi Picoult

The Thirteenth Tale (2006) by Diane Setterfield

Eragon (2003) by Christopher Paolini

Princess Academy (2005) by Shannon Hale

Eats, Shoots & Leaves (2003) by Lynne Truss

Bel Canto (2001) by Ann Patchett

The Girl Who Played with Fire (2009) by Stieg Larsson

The Wettest County in the World (2008) by Matt Bondurant

The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet (2010) by David Mitchell

1776 (2005) by David McCullough

Little Brother (2008) by Cory Doctorow

Running with Scissors (2003) by Augusten Burroughs

Angels & Demons (2000) by Dan Brown

A Million Little Pieces (2003) by James Frey

On Beauty (2005) by Zadie Smith

The Lost Symbol (2009) by Dan Brown

Before I Die (2007) by Jenny Downham

Flags of Our Fathers (2000) by James Bradley

Sold (2006) by Patricia McCormick

Something Borrowed (2005) by Emily Giffin

Suite Francaise (2004) by Irene Nemirovsky

The World Is Flat (2005) by Thomas Friedman

#top #books #2000-2010

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agentrouka-blog · 3 years

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1 I forgot to tell you that your fish symbolism explanation is spot-on. Martin is a very sneaky bastard. Ichthys in Greek characters had king symbolism in early christianity (there's also the fisher king myth of northern Europe). It is analyzed as "Jesus Christ God's Son Savior" and was used as symbol of the early christians. It is said that Jesus was crucified under an inscription announcing him as king. So, if Jon gave Bran his fish, which kingship would he give him? of the North or the South?

2 If the fish symbolizes kingship, and Robb had his by inheritance as a Stark, then Jon also had his as a Targ. But things get more complicated, since Jon is also designated heir of Robb. Then there's the sword thing. Ice broke in two, one for the South, one for the North. Jon has his own sword, which he earned, for the far North? Another problem is the "king of the ashes". He's supposed to be the one who reigns after the catastrophe. But Bran is the one to bring the summer. Although it fits

3 I cannot find any association of Bran with the South, while on the other hand the foreshadowing in the books suggests that he'll be in equal danger from Ice and Fire and that Snow will protect him (and it makes sense bc Jon is made of both). On the other hand, Jon is the one dealing with high politics: kings and queens, the IB, the FF, knights of the South and so on, and he is the one to bring the corn and the one foreshadowed to protect the people of KL. No way I see Jon in the far North.

Hi anon, and sorry for the delay!

I agree with you insofar as I also don't see Jon in the Far North. Neither in exile nor as (and I cannot emphasize how absurd the notion would be) King beyond the Wall. Because, ffs, why would they choose Jon to be their king. He spent a few weeks trekking with some raiders in the wilderness (as an undercover agent!), and afterwards was a negotiation partner representing a formerly entirely hostile institution. He can lead them in the regular North, where his home is, but in the far North he's nothing but an expat unfamiliar with the landscape and practical realities of day to day life. Jon can't rule a scattered society based on "My abusive ex once told me the Thenns mine tin and copper." It's preposterous. They have their own people to choose from.

While Jon meets and deals with Southerners and Big Politics, Jon's heart beats for one place:

Yet he could not let the wildlings breach the Wall, to threaten Winterfell and the north, the barrowlands and the Rills, White Harbor and the Stony Shore, even the Neck. For eight thousand years the men of House Stark had lived and died to protect their people against such ravagers and reavers . . . and bastard-born or no, the same blood ran in his veins. (ASOS, Jon II)

That's where he belongs. That's where he'll be. He would be an indredibly unmotivated king in the South because he has no personal relationship to the place, not any more than to the Far North. Jon is called the "blood of Winterfell", same as Sansa.

That said, I don't think Jon will "give" Bran his kingship directly. Rather, giving up any resemblance of a claim to the Southern throne will open up the path that will eventually lead to Bran being chosen.

Bran's kingship is likely based on a fish, alright: his Tully heritage. That is Bran's association with the South. He had desired to see the world beyond the North, no less than Sansa and Arya.

Father had promised that they would meet Ser Barristan when they reached King's Landing, and Bran had been marking the days on his wall, eager to depart, to see a world he had only dreamed of and begin a life he could scarcely imagine. (AGOT, Bran II)

Robb caught a trout and is crowned in Riverrun, the seat of House Tully with the strident support of his mother's lands.

Maege Mormont stood. "The King of Winter!" she declared, and laid her spiked mace beside the swords. And the river lords were rising too, Blackwood and Bracken and Mallister, houses who had never been ruled from Winterfell, yet Catelyn watched them rise and draw their blades, bending their knees and shouting the old words that had not been heard in the realm for more than three hundred years, since Aegon the Dragon had come to make the Seven Kingdoms one … yet now were heard again, ringing from the timbers of her father's hall:

"The King in the North!" (AGOT, Catelyn XI)

I think this energy will feeds into Bran being chosen, as well. Because like Robb hs reign will be a new beginning. A time after the Iron Throne, after King's Landing. A King of Summer.

#jon snow #bran stark #fish symbolism #king bran #king jon

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agentrouka-blog · 4 years

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House Stark redemption arc.

Re-reading the books for the timeline questions makes me really appreciate how GRRM is working the biggest redemption arc of them all: House Stark.

Like a sword, it has to be remade.

Its origins? Shrouded in a murky magical fight that never resolved the issue and necessitated a giant ice Wall and the foundation of a border patrol that forgot its purpose and devolved into a runty penal colony occupied with waging war on the neighbors.

Its rise to power? Good old-fashioned conquest.

Some past strategies for dealing with the winters? Raiding in the South.

Shining light of honor? The Rape of the Sisters.

Attitude toward their neighbors? “Even their gods are wrong.” (AGOT, Catelyn XI)

Their Grand Heir in the last generation? Brandon Stark, smirking manwhore (Convince me otherwise.) and so politically astute and responsible that his first response to his sister’s disappearance was to go yell at the mad king and help escalate the situation beyond repair.

Sure, they are beloved by the people. But, you know, there were smallfolk praising Aerys Targaryen in that warehouse concentration camp Arya stayed at. Clearly, that’s not your only measure of decency.

But you see my point. They are legends but they are actually not THAT especially good.

That’s why now - in the advent of “Long Night - The Sequel” - House Stark is undergoing a redemption arc to make them worthy of their own hype.

Narrative punishment all around: Ned is crap at communication, denies the historical purpose of the Watch and keeps a child hostage to kill in case his dad acts out? Watch your House and its power crumble, your seat - tied to that historical purpose - stolen and burned, your children scattered and abused, your heir betrayed and murdered - after your own betrayal and murder, of course.

Robb manages to rally the North and reforge the Kingdom again - but the cracks of fealty sworm under duress (House Bolton, House Greyjoy) rear their head immediately and Robb wages war on the smallfolk like Tywin - narrative punishment: Red Wedding.

They will need to reforge the Kingdom organically: like Jon advises Stannis to do, house by house, paying respect, convincing them of the actual need to unite, doing their duty first, not talking about rights. To do that, they need to become worthy.

That’s why everyone has been brought so low: to learn the hard way, to earn their happy ending.

Jon needed to learn hands-on how to respect diversity: different cultures, sexual autonomy, sexual diversity, respect for women in particular and soft power in general, serving before ruling, weighing priorities, understanding the crucial role of the boring administrative details, making peace after strife. He is struggling the worst when it comes to weighing means against ends, and when it comes to allowing others the responsibility to make their own choices. He needs to overcome Ned’s biggest failing: silence. He needs to explain himself, make himself fully accountable to those around him. Not in sullen, explosive anger, but in a respectful recognition that not all choices must flow from him alone, lest he get tangled up in all the strings like Ned.

Sansa needed to understand that her duty as a highborn Lady is not obedience to her lord but to use the actual power she can access. To recognize and ameliorate injustice, to induce compassion into situations that lack it, to be the ideal she wants to see in the world and force it into existence in herself in spite of how everyone else wants to champion cynicism and opportunism. Obedience to tyrants is complicity, and the more her agency grows, the more pertinent this lesson becomes for herself. Sansa will need to harness power, to be a Lady who does her duty to her people as a leader, not to her Lord as a follower. She will Need to stand up, and speak up, they way she could not at the Trident.

Arya needed to learn that the freedom she wanted is empty without duty. Waving a deadly weapon around and rejecting the duties of a Lady without understanding the fundamental privileges attached to both of those things is idle vanity. Yelling orders is not leadership, attacking others in anger is not justice. She has one of the most painful arcs because to want to wield a sword is one of the most ambitious desires. A sword has no purpose but to hurt and kill. You have to understand justice and duty to earn that privilege justly.

And Bran. He already starts out so well. He climbs all the way high up and looks at Winterfell and all he feels when looking down like its Lord is love for all the people. But to rule in the highest position, he needed to understand that there is no society without cooperation and value for the most helpless. Not from high up but from way down low. He needed to understand that human beings can and must depend on each other’s better angels, on loyalty not from Duty but from respect and friendship. He needs to learn how to reject the vastest of powers, how to let go of his deepest personal dreams if it is necessary for the good of everyone. Only by knowing how to let go of power can he be ready to accept it in the first place.

And Rickon is on Skagos. With Shaggy, who is eating unicorns. I can never stop emphasizing this. For whatever purpose it will end up serving.

They will all end up doing their part in saving the people of Westeros, using their privilege to do their duty. And that will, eventually, be rewarded.

The books are all about consequences and narrative justice. It is the opposite of grimdark and no one will escape that. House Stark is currently undergoing their redemption arc, which is what will justify their happy or quasi-happy endings.

Everyone else in the books who is failing to learn the right lessons and actually atone for their wrong-doing will end up facing karmic justice. Everyone.

#asoiaf #House Stark #redemption arc #jon snow #sansa stark #arya stark #bran stark #eddard stark #robb stark #grrm #the endgame is harmony

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tatticstudio55 · 6 years

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On the matter of tyranny in ASOIAF/GOT

Let’s discuss tyranny (or: is Dany a tyrant?)

Ok, so first perhaps we should look up what the exact definition for a “tyrant” is. According to my merriam-webster online dictionary, a tyrant is defined as:

An absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution;

A usurper of sovereignty;

A ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally;

One resembling an oppressive ruler in the harsh use of authority or power

I’ll go with the first definition, (“an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution”) simply because it encompass all the others, and because many anti-Dany argue that even a “benevolent” tyrant qualifies as a tyrant nonetheless. Since I don’t necessarily disagree with that, I’ll give it a pass.

Here’s the catch: the politics in Westeros centers around the premise that there’s no law beyond the king’s law. A king can be cruel, incompetent, a monster, but he can’t be a criminal UNLESS another king casts him down and judges him as such – and by then the previous king is no longer a king, of course. How do I know this? Because it’s obvious. If there was a law above the king, Aerys would’ve been sentenced for rape, torture and murder under sufficient incriminating evidence, the Mountain would’ve had to answer to charges of rape and the murder of children, Joffrey would’ve been sentenced for ordering mass murder, Cersei would’ve been sentenced for tearing legal documents, etc. Jaime remembers being powerless at stopping the mad king from raping Rhaella, since his vows forbade him to, and basically forbade him any serious attempt at preventing or stopping the mad king from committing any crimes; crimes who’d be punishable by death if committed by anyone other than the king himself. Currently in Westeros, if the ruling monarch decides that a sentence must be carried, or a crime ignored/pardoned, then so it will be, and that’s that. When Robert decided to send a poisoner to Daenerys in AGOT, was there a vote at a roundtable? Eddard Stark, the second most powerful man in Westeros after the king, opposed strongly to it, and guess what? It didn’t matter at all. He had no actual agency in the matter. When Margaery was called by the High Sparrow to testify for her brother, what was her answer? “I’m the queen”. And when the High Sparrow ordered her imprisonment, her answer was? “Are you out of your mind? I’m the queen!”

And here you’ve got the current political system in Westeros. Kings and queens are unrestrained by law. Some of them will abide to it anyway, because there are, and have been decent rulers before, but these rulers, sad as it may sound, are just by choice, not by true legal obligations (unless they’re being just out of fear of being killed by rebels/traitors otherwise… but once again, that wouldn’t be considered a “legal” procedure”. It would be an act of treason.) This apply simultaneously to rulers who were born in power, AND to rulers elected in power alike: once a ruler is elected, he can’t – not “legally”, at least – be deposed, (unlike in modern democratic societies), and those elected by democracy aren’t held to carry out their rule democratically afterward:

Septon Cellador sucked in his breath. “The king’s prize. His Grace will be most wroth to find her gone.”

“Val will return.” Before Stannis, if the gods are good.

“How can you know that?” demanded Bowen Marsh.

“She said she would.”

“And if she lied? If she meets with misadventure?”

“Why, then, you may have a chance to choose a lord commander more to your liking. Until such time, I fear you’ll still need to suffer me.” Jon took a swallow of ale. “I sent her to find Tormund Giantsbane and bring him my offer.” Jon - ADWD

It’s made pretty obvious that once a ruler is appointed, he’s appointed for life and can’t be demoted otherwise – else Jon would’ve (or could’ve) been legally demoted from his position as Lord Commander for breaking the Night’s Watch rules (according to those who elected him LC previously, anyway). As it is, no legal procedures could be taken against him and that’s why he was assassinated:

Bowen Marsh did not appear surprised. “You mean to let him pass.” His voice suggested he had known all along. “To open the gates for him and his followers. Hundreds, thousands.”

“If he has that many left.”

Septon Cellador made the sign of the star. Othell Yarwyck grunted. Bowen Marsh said, “Some might call this treason. These are wildlings. Savages, raiders, rapers, more beast than man.”

(…)

Marsh flushed a deeper shade of red. “The lord commander must pardon my bluntness, but I have no softer way to say this. What you propose is nothing less than treason. For eight thousand years the men of the Night’s Watch have stood upon the Wall and fought these wildlings. Now you mean to let them pass, to shelter them in our castles, to feed them and clothe them and teach them how to fight. Lord Snow, must I remind you? You swore an oath.”

(…)

“The Night’s Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms,” Jon reminded them when some semblance of quiet had returned. “It is not for us to oppose the Bastard of Bolton, to avenge Stannis Baratheon, to defend his widow and his daughter. This creature who makes cloaks from the skins of women has sworn to cut my heart out, and I mean to make him answer for those words… but I will not ask my brothers to forswear their vows. – Jon, ADWD

Notice how Jon doesn’t say “I can’t ask my brothers to forswear their vows”. He says I will not. Himself, he means to march to Winterfell, even if his vows forbid him to do so, and who’s stopping him? Bowen Marsh, Othell Yarwyck and the others, but they don’t so do because they legally can. They do so by stabbing him to death. It’s even doubtful if Janos Slynt’s execution, scum as he was, was legally justified: treason and desertion in the Night’s Watch are punishable by death, but Slynt committed neither. He refused an order. And Jon’s POV on the matter makes it pretty clear that the whole ordeal – beheading him – was decided and carried out more arbitrarily than not:

All the voices died at once. “Lord Janos,” Jon said, “I will give you one last chance. Put down that spoon and get to the stables. I have had your horse saddled and bridled. It is a long, hard road to Greyguard.”

“Then you had best be on your way, boy.” Slynt laughed, dribbling porridge down his chest. “Greyguard’s a good place for the likes of you, I’m thinking. Well away from decent godly folk. The mark of the beast is on you, bastard.”

“You are refusing to obey my order?”

“You can stick your order up your bastard’s arse,” said Slynt, his jowls quivering.

Alliser Thorne smiled a thin smile, his black eyes fixed on Jon. At another table, Godry the Giantslayer began to laugh.

“As you will.” Jon nodded to Iron Emmett. “Please take Lord Janos to the Wall—”

— and confine him to an ice cell, he might have said. A day or ten cramped up inside the ice would leave him shivering and feverish and begging for release, Jon did not doubt. And the moment he is out, he and Thorne will begin to plot again.

— and tie him to his horse, he might have said. If Slynt did not wish to go to Greyguard as its commander, he could go as its cook. It will only be a matter of time until he deserts, then. And how many others will he take with him?

“—and hang him,” Jon finished.

(…)

“If the boy thinks that he can frighten me, he is mistaken,” they heard Lord Janos said. “He would not dare to hang me. Janos Slynt has friends, important friends, you’ll see…” The wind whipped away the rest of his words.

This is wrong, Jon thought. “Stop.”

Emmett turned back, frowning. “My lord?”

“I will not hang him,” said Jon. “Bring him here.”

“Oh, Seven save us,” he heard Bowen Marsh cry out.

The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, “Edd, fetch me a block,” and unsheathed Longclaw. – Jon, ADWD

The law doesn’t decide what punishment Slynt should get, else, Jon wouldn’t ponder what to do with Slynt in the first place (imprison, tie him to his horse, hang him or behead him) and would simply abid to what the law prescribes. And yes, Jon was elected LC, but Slynt had no agency in the matter. He did not choose Jon. If Slynt had his way, Jon wouldn’t be LC. If Slynt had his way, Jon would’ve been hanged in book 3. If Slynt had his way, Slynt wouldn’t be at the Wall at all. So, all in all, his situation wasn’t so different from the Tarly’s, pledged “against their will” to Daenerys in season 7.

Where I’m going with this? Nearly every ruler in ASOIAF/GOT check a couple of boxes from the tyrant category, Daenerys included. It’s flawed, of course, but that’s the medieval mentality, that’s how the political system is built, and let’s be honest, a lot of people yell TYRANT at Daenerys to prove how “unfit” she’d be for Jon, failing to acknowledge that Jon himself fits the mold. In this world, the best people can hope for is a king willing to do the right thing out of moral obligations. Most of the time, Daenerys checks this box as well (more so in the books; I’ll admit there’s a few slips in the show):

Plumm scratched at his speckled whiskers. “If there’s no dragons in the balance, well… we should leave before them Yunkish bastards close the trap… only first, make the slavers pay to see our backs. They pay the khals to leave their cities be, why not us? Sell Meereen back to them and start west with wagons full o’ gold and gems and such.”

“You want me to loot Meereen and flee? No, I will not do that. Grey Worm, are my freedmen ready for battle?” – Dany, ADWD

In fact, the only time Daenerys actively “breaks” the law without further consequences (that I can recall), is in the show, when she feeds a former master to her dragons. I get that it was to scare the others into revealing who was beyond the SotH, making it a form of torture, but even by medieval laws, to “legally” torture someone, you need evidences that goes beyond mere “suspicions”. (The corresponding “incident” in the book most likely being when she allows the wineseller’s daughters to be tortured in front of their fathers; not a “crime” per say, if we stick to medieval law terms, since the incriminating evidences against the suspects qualified more than enough as “half-proof”. Anyway, I went over that matter before.)

#daenerys defense squad #got wank #jon x dany #jonerys #jon x daenerys

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