#narumayo discourse

[catgirl-catboy]

A surprising lack of legal understanding in the law fandom.

(disclaimer: you don't have to like the ship, or the people that ship it. But calling it an illegal ship or a pedo ship is just plain inaccurate.)

[lawyest]

curious since ive seen opinions and evidence on both. this isn’t necesarily about which one you ship or think is better, just which one is (in your opinion) more intended by the creators!

[jamesbranwen]

how am I supposed to be a human in real life when I am intensely hyperfixated on narumayo

[emblemoftheattorney]

It makes me sad when I look at Ace Attorney fandom stuff from 10-15 years ago and see how much more comparatively chill and accepting they were of different ships from the most popular ones back then. It wasn’t perfect or free of discourse, obviously, but at least fans could mostly get away with shipping that stuff without getting called horrible people, unlike today where the Ace Attorney fandom is determined to bully anyone who dare ship the Unacceptable Stuff™️ out of the fandom (ESPECIALLY on aatwt my goodness). I know this isn’t just me because I’ve seen even certain older fans note this and say stuff like “Wow I’ve been in the Ace Attorney fandom for years and back then there used to be so many Narumayos and ppl who shipped so-and-so in het I’m so glad these are no longer acceptable we’ve come so far” WRONG. The fandom has turned into a hivemind who think it’s acceptable to unperson others over ships and will sooner sympathize with one who harasses another over a Bad Ship than the one getting harassed because how dare they ship outside the sacred stuff. You really think it’s a good thing the AA fandom environment has gotten tyrannical about what you’re allowed to ship? Old Ace Attorney Shipping Fandom was FAR from perfect, but if your reasons for why it was bad or worse than now are “ships I dislike were allowed to exist” hoooooo boy.

[aceredshirt13]

One thing I don’t understand about AA fandom is that often the popular takes are seen as the “one true interpretation” by much of the fandom to the detriment of any opposition. To this I raise a question about two of these popular takes: how is it that Yujin and Herlock, who become friends at the ages of 27 and 18, respectively, are shipped by a large majority of the fandom, but Edgeworth and Kay, who become friends at the ages of 26 and 17, respectively, are treated by a significant portion of the fandom as father and daughter?

I hadn't thought about it until recently, but they’re the same difference apart in years and have only a single year’s difference in when they befriend each other. So why on Earth is there such a huge difference in how the fandom interprets these friendships?? Why is Kay treated like enough of a child by the fanbase that her and Edgeworth’s age difference is interpreted as parental, when that same age difference isn’t viewed as an obstacle to romance with Herlock and Yujin? Is it because Kay is met at seventeen while Herlock is met at eighteen, even though those are fundamentally extremely similar ages? Is that why people who ship Kay and Edgeworth are smeared as pedophiles, even though I sincerely doubt any of them are shipping them while she’s still a year underage (I can attest that back when I was 14 and still shipped Narumayo, zero people I ever saw shipped them while Maya was still 17), while the same concerns about age are almost never raised with Homumiko? I have no interest in “age gap discourse” or whatever because I think it’s a silly and reductive argument as long as the relationship is healthy and no minors are involved with adults, but I do care about hypocrisy. So these are things I often ponder.

(Personally, I don’t subscribe to either of the popular interpretations, and prefer the duos to be the platonic guy-and-weird-girl dynamic they are in canon and that I enjoy (and write them as such in my fics about them). I don’t think nine years is enough of a gap to interpret any character as the parent of another, and that’s also just not what Edgeworth and Kay’s dynamic feels like to me - in the same way that I was never under the impression that Yujin’s affection for Herlock was anything other than friendly and familial. I also do not envision it as the reverse - which is to say, I can’t see Kay getting together with Edgeworth any more than I can see Yujin as Herlock’s dad. But I am also not going to be upset if anyone disagrees with me, as long as they are not upset with me - because regardless of the interpretation, it’s clear that both pairs like each other, love each other, and care about each other dearly. All I’m saying is that I think if someone is going to have a fandom hill they wish to die on, they should make sure that hill has a leg to stand on. Mixing my metaphors here. But you get what I mean.)

[shrinkthisviolet]

for the relationship ask game - 11 (Barry & Cisco), 34, & 47

11. [Barry and Cisco] have just stumbled into a fairy ring, and they've forgotten they ever knew each other! What happens now?

My mind went right to that episode of s3 where Barry got amnesia and fell in love with Iris all over again. In a world with Barrisco endgame...he'd be falling for Cisco (all over again, ofc, because he had a crush on Cisco the whole time in this version of events). And since both of them lose their memories, Cisco would be gushing about Barry too.

But of course they'd both try to disguise it as "friendly banter," because neither of them wanna scare off the cute guy who seems to really like them (platonically, they think. Oh, these lovable idiots).

Caitlin and Iris realize that these two will get their memories back by kissing. And both of them know that Barry and Cisco have been crushing on each other for ages, and are still flirting now, but...how to convince them to go for it?

So shenanigans ensue, in which Caitlin and Iris try to set them up, except those plans go a bit awry. But also, in a way, those plans still succeed, because Barrisco fall more in love with each other until one day they go for it and kiss. And all is well!

(Except they "forgot" where the fairy circle was, so the following week, Caitlin and Iris get stuck there 😉)

34. Are there any well-known fanon relationships (not canon), that you just can't stand?

Oh boy. There's quite a list for this one. And mind you, this is only fandom ships that I have a strong opinion on:

Snowbarry, Zutara, Tokka, Zukka, Silverusso, Samhawk, Irosami, Makroh, Cykesquill (not Aurametis ofc 💞 I’m talking about Athena x Simon), Harringrove, Obikin, Anisoka, Narumayo, Dramione (not that I particularly care about HP nowadays, but still)

(I'm not discoursing about these btw, and anyone who tries is getting blocked ✋ the anti tags are there for a reason)

47. Answered here!

fanfic relationships ask game!

[edgeyboy8730579]

Good day.

I'm Miles Edgeworth, famed prosecutor. This is meant to be a sort of "joke blog" or RP blog. Try not to take anything I say on here seriously.

I am uncomfortable with Narumayo and Cykesquill shippers on my blog, as I am a minor offline and the agegap really makes me feel weird. Also please abide by usual dni requirements, also including anti-mogai and discourse blogs. That being said, interactions are welcome from everybody else. Please tag any asks with (OOC) or (ICH) for out-of or in-character. Personal blog tags are tagged under this post.

currently trying to make this a personal RP blog rather than a combined one.

[zukkas]

(Same anon that was asking about proship) I do agree that the boxes are somewhat stupid (I think that anti is also bad because it implies a negative opinion and being entirely against shipping). Could you speak on the nuance a bit further? I’m genuinely curious

You also probably shouldn’t censor words because it messes up the Tumblr filtering system for people who have the word proship filtered

i censored the words bc I didn't want them to end up in the tags/search bc i don't feel like having random people i don't know come on my post to lecture me about their stance when ive already made up my mind

as for why i have my stance specifically, first of all this is SUCH chronically online discourse that i really just don't wanna bother with it as much as i can avoid it. you say you're one of these to anyone outside of very specific internet circles and they look at you like you have 13 limbs

second of all, my main thing is to ship and let ship. even if I don't like a ship, even if i think it's "problematic" or whatever for any reasons, in the end it's a fictional ship, and if the shipper isn't hurting anyone with this ship, i just block the tag(s) and move on. i've seen a lot of antis have ships they don't like and try to justify not liking them by making them out to be problematic in some way (like, for example, saying narumayo from ace attorney is incest or pseudo-incest because the two characters are found family. i don't care for narumayo whatsoever but you don't have to make stuff up to justify not shipping something).

that being said, I don't think ships where the characters are related or an adult and a minor should be glorified as i've seen before. i don't know the people writing these and i have no way of knowing what they've been through and i know that writing these kinda fics for many is just a way to work through their trauma, but there comes a point where i think you have to look inward and ask yourself why am i writing this. what am i putting out into the world by writing this. is this actually helping me deal with the things I've been through or am i just hurting myself more by retraumatizing myself. and if you actually think pedophilia is "hot" or whatever, seek help. seek actual professional help and do not go near any children, ever. i don't care if they're fictional children, i don't care if she's actually 3000 years old and just looks like she's 9, children cannot consent, they do not have the mental capacity to do so in an informed manner.

as for ao3 censorship since that's so entrenched in this discourse, i don't think ao3 should have to remove anything that's not illegal. ao3 was created specifically to avoid this kinda censorship that fanfic authors have dealt with ever since being able to post fics online has been a thing. a lot of the stuff on there is repulsive to me as well, but i know some of the shit ive written would also be considered "problematic" by a lot of people, so where do you draw the line? there's so many edge cases and so many things to consider that it's a complete waste of time and resources for ao3. and it's an archive, for fucks sake. it's not meant to pass down judgment on what's moral and what's not, it's meant to archive. and if you don't agree with that, there's plenty of sites like ffnet and wattpad that do censor "problematic" shit, just go back to those.

im not looking to debate any of this, i've made up my mind so if you're gonna reply to this/send me an ask with an argument for your "side" you're just wasting your time

[prompt-master]

The Professor Layton crossover had two Narumayo scenes beyond them ending up as married makers in Labrynthia, one where Nick referenced Maya as his true love before a fortune teller. There was also an official Narumayo stage play. It works very well in the later instalments in the series, especially after Phoenix has raised Trucy and Maya has finally finished her training at long last after seven years. With regards to Edgeworth, I prefer the Langworth ship (picture Phoenix, buff and super-gay).

That's nice but that still doesn't change my mind, I just. Feel as though they don't work together and it makes me a bit uncomfortable that she was 17 when they met and was clearly potrayed as this young lil sister in my eyes.

I'm sorry I just don't care for narumayo

[incorrectaceattorneyquotes]

what do you think about that incorrect-narumayo-quotes blog

i have no thoughts 🤷🏽‍♀️

[catgirl-catboy]

I never really paid attention to shipping discourse before now because I'm typically a hater, however honestly the more I think about it, the funnier hypocrisy in the AA fandom becomes. You will be burned at the stake if you like something incredibly problematic like narumayo (he knew her when she was 17 therefore if they dated over ten years later, he is supposedly a groomer). However 90% of the fandom vibes with krisnix because they play this 5D chess in which they are not "shipping" it and instead appreciating the toxicity and subtle homoeroticism of falling for the guy who messed up your life completely. It just makes no sense, by their own standards most of them are proshippers.

Honestly, in terms of problematic ships everyone ships in this fandom (ironically except for me.) there is another.

(the 26 is in the investigations games, at the end of the trilogy he's 31 and 32.)

And the ship is much more canon on Gumshoe's end. Weird that.

(its canon on both ends I think, but Gumshoe's feelings get more attention, and for those not in the fanon, this ship began when the two of them worked the same job.)

And I'd argue that early game Wrightworth is pretty toxic, since Phoenix shows signs of his codependent glass eating behavior that made his relationship with Dahlia toxic and Edgeworth would rather fake suicide than talk about his feelings.

At least, that was Wrightworth before it got boring after AA5 since they couldn't think of any more conflict.

[your-local-granny]

…who “isn’t siblings”

Okay, this is in response to the tags I left on this meme:

Tags I left: [“But they’re siblings that’s weird!!” TO YOUUUU. They’re literally not related and also adults lmao ur so funny bestie xoxox]

I was saying (poorly) that Maya and Phoenix aren’t siblings.

Probably shouldn’t have vagued and also been weirdly passive-aggressive sorry about that but here we are. Also sorry for the really long explanation you probably didn’t want anon but I’ve wanted to talk about this for a while:

Basically this reminded me about how some AA fans view Phoenix and Maya’s relationship as other brother and younger sister. Some other people ship narumayo of course and have been for a really long time.

I’ve found that recently whenever I post the slightest implication of narumayo in my art I’ve gotten comments basically saying “hope you don’t ship them ://“

And… idk, there’s a recent stigma around shipping them, equating it to pro shipping or pedophilia and it just feels like a rehash of that old tumblr discourse “if you don’t ship this mlm couple you’re homophobic” ect. Maya is 18+ years old for every game in the series besides one. Phoenix and Maya aren’t related. If you personally still think that shipping them is weird I totally get it but I think that it’s

A) shitty to tell content creators what they should and shouldn’t do

B) limiting to only view Maya as Nick’s younger sister

C) aggravating to assign morality to a shipping war that’s been around since 2005

If you want to still think of them as siblings I really don’t have anything against you !! I also personally find it interesting to put Maya more in the forefront, even above Edgeworth, because I love her character and I find her and Phoenix’s relationship interesting, and the way that a lot of people emphasize those sorts of things is through shipping.

Anyways very long winded response but I hope y’all don’t just insta block me and actually take the time to read this,,. If anyone wants to talk more about this I’d love to fhhfhfjf

Love this fan base and all the new fans that are discovering it!! Hope u have a good day anon!!

[digitalstowaway]

😑 someone sent THEM an ask being misogynistic just because they said narumayo couldn't be submitted for the week (they also said to just avoid ships in general). are you literally a pro shipper lmfao

I literally just don't care about shipping that much. Like I'm an adult. I don’t have time to keep up with whatever a pro shipper or whatever is? I just get annoyed when I see people making repetitive posts in a tag trying to stir up drama and would rather block people who post discourse like that.

[mcshadym]

Thanks for sticking up for NaruMayo. You earned a follow. These salters need to cut back, too much salt ain't good for one's health.

Thanks. But tbh, I avoid ship discourse like the plague because their take on the ship is utterly ridiculous. I can’t take any of them seriously. The best thing to do is to ignore them. We don't need their validation.

[morpheusdreamt]

PSA/Callout post for @thejordanphoenix

@thejordanphoenix also known as JordanPhoenix on both ao3 and ffnet, has been stealing AA artwork and has been using the pieces in her fanfiction, unsourced and most likely without permission.

 This is absolutely horrible and I plan on telling as many people as I can, as someone who has had their art stolen before. 

Here are links to where the art was used and where they’re originally from, as some examples:

Original post [x]

Stolen image [x]

Original post [x]

Stolen image [x]

Original post [x]

Stolen image [x]

Original post [x]

Stolen image [x]

This post is not a personal attack, but I feel it is extremely disrespectful and rude to the artists themselves to have something they’ve worked so hard on stolen from them. There are far too many chapters in this to go through (over 160, with multiple pieces in some of them, sources ranging from pixiv, deviantart, tumblr, and godawful pinterest), but it is evident that she’s not sourcing these. 

This is not something that is appropriate to do at all, and I felt this was the best way to let most of the fandom know.

[themornal]

Thoughts on AA ships?

Oof, hope nobody gets mad at me over this, haha.You’ll notice I try to almost entirely avoid shipping content on this blog, and that’s on purpose. I don’t feel the need to publicly take sides in a discourse that’s gotten pretty toxic over the years, so I try not to bring it up unless someone explicitly asks.Most ships, I range from “indifferent” to “oh, that’s cute”. Some of the ones I like in this category are Trupearl, Junithena, Justicykes, and Klapollo. There are some ships I do explicitly dislike, but most of them are pretty small anyway so I don’t feel the need to name them and “kick them while they’re down” so to speak.Not into Narumitsu though. Part because I hc Edgeworth as Ace (which I feel is all but explicitly confirmed imo) and part because even if he wasn’t ace I prefer both him and Wright in other relationships, namely Langworth, Gumworth, and Narumayo, the latter of which being my OTP.Purely personal opinion, of course, and I don’t feel all that strongly about any of this because I’m generally pretty uninterested, but yeah, those are my thoughts.