#not that I said what the endgame is. it's byler tho

[katimanki]

An AU where they grew up as upper class rich kids going to fancy charity events and banquets every weekend.

Mike hates them and is dragged to them against his will, but at least Max is also forced to attend with her family, so they don't have to suffer at these stuck up formal parties alone. The Byers-Hoppers are new in town and are attending their first charity event as members of the rich people community of Hawkins and Mike has a bi panic moment when he spots the family's twins in the crowd. (at first his silly ass almost mistakes them for a couple until Max corrects him)

The Wonder Twins(as Max calls them) seem like an intimidating pair, they are in their element at the fancy events, and Mike is very much not. But when he catches the twins pulling pranks on the sidelines of the events, he gets the courage to try and befriend them.

(this had a companion piece of Mike and Max, but anything I made would just not look even close to what the sketch did, so I just put the sketch under the cut)

[cringengl]

I’m worried with what Finn just said and now the milkvans are gonna be after us. He said he doesn’t ship Byler and is not a shipper. I think he’s sick of us and thinks we’re delusional but doesn’t wanna come out and say it. He compared us to twilight which makes me sad 😔

Also means he doesn't ship mleven🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

He probably compared us to Twilight bcus both have love triangles and have been pretty culturally significant (Twilight is honestly way more culturally significant atm but we'll see once st5 comes out....). It seems like Finn isn't too into fandom spaces (by looking at that comment) so I wouldn't take it too deeply; being compared to Twilight is not necessarily bad, it just depends on the context.

We have to remember that st5 is going to be massive and that they've been teaching the cast how not to give spoilers since s1 came out, so it's likely that Finn cannot say anything that gives any indication of byler endgame. I'm pretty sure everything that Noah has said publically about byler, especially his tweets and tik toks, has been a Tom Holland-esque marketing scheme.

This screenshot is from an article written about an interview with Noah Schnapp after s2 relased btw.

If Finn is actually sick of us, who cares anyway?? As long as you don't harass him or be rude to him then what does it matter whether he likes or dislikes us. Although actors do have some leeway in what they perform, which seems especially true in Stranger Things, such as the s2 mleven kiss or the the s4 jopper kiss, Finn isn't realistically going to have any influence over whether byler becomes canon or not, so at the end of the day what does it really matter??

Anyways, always take what actors say at cons with a pinch of salt.

Byler is endgame!!!!!

[bylersrise]

soooo im writing a fic and i aim to finish this one (unlike the others still in my notes 😭) but idk who's pov to use so just vote which you'd prefer if u can 💕

[carigm]

About Dyersfilm’s “leak”

For all of you who don’t know, dyersfilm is an insufferable individual who used to go by the name of swiftlynatalia. She is racist, homophobic, transphobic, and even made fun of her supposed favorite actress’ eating disorder. However, people on Twitter (especially mlvns) entertain her because she had reliable sources during the filming of S4, and after during post production. She had some true leaks, many being the same that Reddit got right, while others only she had. She was also wrong about quite a few things, but generally she was reliable.

It is worth noting though that she is extremely biased against byler (many of the leaks she got wrong for S4 were pertaining their storyline) and absolutely hates the ship.

This time around, she was getting some leaks during the first couple of months of filming to her curious cat, but she herself claimed that these were not reliable leaks whatsoever and that she was pissed because this time she doesn’t have access to the real sources she had for S4. She has complained about this repeatedly for these past few months. The leaks she has gotten tho, many she has mocked and made fun of because they don’t align with what she wants from the show. She also made a “disclaimer” when the show started filming again that she would not be posting leaks about Byler because she hates us all, and yet every single one of those most likely fake leaks she got she posted, and many of them talked about Byler. She would post them and mock them for “clearly being untrue”. She has barely gotten a single Mlvn positive leak this whole time, and when she’s gotten at least something that alludes to them having scenes together she immediately ran to post it and alert all her friends, even tho she herself knows all of these are most likely fake.

For weeks now, her curious cat has been dry af because I guess nda’s are stronger this time, or no one wants to leak shit to her (she’s rude as hell). she posted the following ask 10 days ago. Someone asked her if she knew about any Mike and El scenes and she said no. Keep this in mind for what’s coming next…

Then suddenly yesterday, she alluded to a Jonathan spoiler she’s supposedly pissed about, but refused to post it like she’s done for everything else. People quickly thought it might involve Byler because she said she wasn’t going to post “leaks” about it, even though she had already lol. So they asked her and she said that “yes, it has to do with Byler.”

Then shortly after this someone asked about Mlvn again, this was just today. Again, note how she proceeds to say she knows nothing about Mlvn 😭

Bylers on Twitter noticed her answers about Mlvn and her comment about a supposed byler leak involving Jonathan and started speculating. She ofc noticed this, and not even after an hour of her saying she knows nothing about Mlvn she goes on to say this.

….

She knows nothing but somehow she knows Mlvn is stable? The bipolar disorder of these answers could rival my own bipolar.

Mind you, we all know that she would’ve jumped up at the first opportunity to post any leak that implied Will was pining and miserable, her and her friends would’ve had a field day over it. And yet, she only clarifies this after…

Not to mention how utterly ridiculous this all is. They’ve filmed stuff up until episode 4 (from what we know), why the hell would Will be pining and hung up over Mike if Mlvn is endgame? That makes absolutely no fucking sense. They would have him immediately fully patch things up with Mike and move on, not be hung up on someone he can’t have in the middle of an apocalypse. Especially not after the Duffers said he’s getting a happy ending. Will getting a happy ending but still being in love with Mike halfway through the last season with Mlvn being endgame is absolute lunacy.

Especially when you consider the fact that narratively, in a sense, Will has already moved on. He doesn’t expect anything from Mike, he doesn’t think Mike can like him back. He saw Mike confess his love in front of El, he helped that confession happen. Will literally has no problem with Mlvn anymore pls 😭 He saved them!!

This is the most ridiculous shit I’ve ever read.

Will is somehow upset at Mike not feeling the same way…when Will already believes Mike doesn’t feel the same and doesn’t ever expect any reciprocation 😭

Either she’s wildly twisting this supposed leak out of context to fit her own perceived narrative of what should happen, or she’s straight up lying about this.

And we know she’s lying about Mlvn so…you people decide what you think of this buffoonery lol.

Wait for Reddit leaks y’all. This woman could get a legit leak saying Byler is endgame and dig her own grave before posting it.

[chirpsythismorning]

Milkvans complaining about bylers not mentioning Finn’s response about about the monologue is so funny, as if it didn’t support byler endgame even more 🤣

Finn saying I think he knows she thinks all this, bc I think there’s a reason why he says it, is because she— she— he’s been waiting to say it for a long time and she’s been waiting for him to say it for a long time. I think it’s an interesting thought, having that reciprocated. Yeah I think so. I don’t… I don’t know. I would hope… idk… great question and thought tho…

Like he literally cuts himself off before implying that Mike knows how El feels and that she wanted him to say I love you for a while, which is the very reason why he said it in the first place, despite seasons of attempting to say it, stalling repeatedly, only to fail each time up until now when there was literally no option not to in his eyes…

How is that a milkvan win?…

Not only that, but he didn’t make it sound hopeful for their future either. It’s still up in the air according to him. He makes a point of just saying interesting question over and over, only to not actually come up with an answer…

The assumption for many viewers, specifically milkvans, is that everything is great for Mike and El right now bc the monologue fixed everything. If that’s the case why does Finn end that question on a sort of question mark with it still up in the air? Least of all when you’re dealing with a queer ship on the other end, with him making much more of an effort to imply that it will be addressed. It’ll pay off vs. idk?…

This is like the casts reaction to the monologue all over again. The interviewer asked about Mike and El’s future and Finn basically danced around it saying he’s looking forward to all of their endings and is mostly interested to know if Mike will stay in Hawkins, adding at the end that he hopes Mike and El you know, find… happiness.

He’s always giving answers that work both ways. Byler endgame still fits in with whatever he says, whether milkvans want to acknowledge that or not.

Otherwise there would be no reason for him to try so hard to be ambiguous about Mike and El’s feelings, as if it’s this big spoiler… unless what’s about to go down is something most the audience won’t expect…

[lordystrange]

10 best byler proofs by me

10. The cast, especially David (who knows the ending) and Finn (who might know something), are always so happy talking about Byler. They wouldn’t be if Will ended up dying alone as a sad gay. Also no one likes milkvan except maybe Millie unless she’s acting… Caleb even said ”Lucas and Max’s love is real unlike Milkvan’s”.

9. Mike has been queercoded throughout the whole series. Especially with queer colors, he spent s4 dressed as a gay pride flag. Also bi and pan colors are associated with him. Also Ted’s ”our son with a girl?” and everything Eddie said about forced conformity etc

8. Byler parallelling other romantic ships like Jancy, Jopper and Lumax. I’m not listing examples because there are SO MANY! (Also Milkvan parallelling all the platonic/dead ships)

7. Mileven being bones. We have nothing that shows their actual, deep love they’re ”supposed to have”. We don’t know what Mike loves about El and what El loves about Mike. We don’t know what makes them a compatible match romantically. We only know things that don’t make them compatible: El feeling the need to lie to Mike, Mike feeling embarrassed of his nerdy self with El, El feeling unloved by Mike, Mike feeling inferior to El…

6. The desert scenes. The triple take ofc, but also the car roof top convo with Will (jancy parallell). Will is talking about how it’s scary to say how you really feel because what if they don’t like the truth. And Mike NODS. If the truth was that he loved El exactly like El wanted, El would like that truth. So what is the truth Mike is worried that El doesn’t like…?

5. Mike’s monologue. He had to be pushed by Will to open his mouth. He lied about him loving her at first sight. He copied the t-shirt part from Eddie. He kept saying she’s his superhero which El doesn’t wanna be. He didn’t include anything personal about El and their relationship after the t-shirt thing… Also El didn’t seem to like what she heard and their love didn’t save the world. And they didn’t even talk after it. And while filming it they didn’t focus on just the couple (like they did with byler in s2 shed scene) and they let Finn improvise as if it wasn’t that important (as important as the van scene…)

4. Mike would be so poorly written if he wasn’t into Will and I don’t think the Duffers would just ignore his character. Also all the lip glances and heart eyes wouldn’t make sense.

3. Byler/Milkvan contrast. When Will was gone and they found his ”body”, Mike heard Will breathing in a radio channel and believed he was alive. He didn’t rest for a second, he did everything he could to find him. When he thought El was dead, he didn’t go looking for her, even tho a couple times he actually saw her. Also in s3 when Milkvan had a fight, Max said Mike will be crawling back to her begging for forgiveness in no time. Instead Mike laid on a sofa and ate and complained. When Byler had a fight… well we all know what Mike did then.

2. Mike and Will’s relationship has always been different from other friendships. They’ve said it themselves (”pls don’t tell the others, they wouldn’t understand”, ”Hawkins is not the same without you”, ”you make her me feel better for being different”). Also their scenes together have always been a big deal (van scene took an entire day to film, crazy together was written before s1 was even filmed) and they are shot in a really romantic way (music, lighting…)

1. In the beginning of s3, Will said to Joyce that he’s not gonna fall in love. That made his arc about romance. We know now that he already fell in love, but he doesn’t believe it’s requited. If s5 goes from ”i don’t think he loves me back” to ”he doesn’t love me back” we get literally nowhere and the entire storyline (since s1) would be useless and waste of time and money. They wouldn’t make Will suffer 4 seasons and then suffer some more. So believe me when I say it goes ”I don’t think he loves me back” to ”He does love me back!”

I wish you all a very merry byler endgame in s5! 💚

[alexthefunniest]

Funniest mileven arguments to why byler won’t be endgame

I’m sorry if there’s any grammar errors or mistakes, I wrote this angrily at 2 am when I couldn’t sleep.

1. “Its the 80’s”- as if there isn’t any movies that have happy queer endings that were made/set in the 80’s, yall are just lazy and don’t want to actually do any research.

2. “It’s a Netflix original”- ok? And? Like we literally get a new mlm/queer show on Netflix every year, byler is a mlm relationship which Netflix has a lot of, young royals, heartstopper??? Are you guys ok?

3. “Cuz it’s too popular” - we already have over two queer confirmed characters in stranger things, the show that’s about fighting forced conformity ?? The show that focuses on nerds, losers and people that don’t ‘fit in’ ? And y’all find it so hard to see ur two main characters being gay? Read the room respectfully.

4. “It’s one sided” - if it was one sided they would make Mike tell Will he doesn’t like him in s3 and give Will a new love interest in s4 (it has been confirmed that there will be no new characters in s5 and that the producers want every character to have their ‘perfect ending’) Will believed he was a mistake and thought he wouldn’t fall in love, because he is queer so he most definitely will have a queer love interest and it will be Mike.

5. “Mike is in love with el”- is he tho? He never actually said he loved her to her face without the world and her life depending on it, he’s been pressured to say it twice and when she told him she loves him back the man didn’t look happy but conflicted.

6. “Mileven endgame” - it’s really not, the amount of symbolism that points to their downfall (such as everyone calling them the ‘star crossed lovers’ which are basically lovers deemed to fail, and more) is HUGE, they have too many familial parallels it’s insane, why parallel the it couple with family themes and relationships? Another problem I have with this it’s the fact that it’s very rare for the first ‘original’ pairings to stay together till the end of the show (like with Bob and Joyce or Steve and Nancy)

7. “Byler wouldn’t make sense to the plot”- watch the show again, just because somethings more subtle, doesn’t mean it’s not there, y’all will always say that about queer relationships but whenever u guys see a straight relationship in these subtle moments you jump into conclusions that they might end up together, it’s called being a hypocrite.

8. “Mike isn’t gay” - it’s what he’s been telling himself too, the guy was obviously made fun of and called slurs like Will, everyone already thought and knew their relationship was ‘special’ and everyone suspected something, that’s why Mikes own dad was surprised and said “our son, with a girl?” Also your so called straight Mike has a room filled with pictures and posters of buff men, he’s never shown any interest in girls or women (except el who’s been said, looked like a boy in s1) not to mention the first song on his official Spotify playlist being “small town boy” (yk the song about a young gay man running away from his homophobic small town??).

9. Mikes love confession- if u call that a love confession I wouldn’t wanna date u brother, he was pushed to say ily by Will, the same Will that was in the frame of Mike lying when he said that his life “started” when he found El in the woods, which was obviously a lie because Mike called El a weapon and said he’ll “send her back to pennhurst or wherever she comes from” after they found her, also if the love confession was honest why would El be still upset with Mike and not talk to him after??

10. “El wasn’t upset at Mike but was sad about Max” - me when I’m in denial, she wasn’t sad about Max until she found the coke bottle underneath her bed, then we get the flashbacks of her and Max having fun in s3, she wasn’t thinking abt Max before that, its called common sense and logical thinking skills.

11. “There would be no time for byler to develop in s5” - it might seem crazy what I’m about to say, they were literally childhood best friends and it’s been confirmed that Will had a crush on Mike since s1, they literally started to build their romantic relationship MORE in s4, with all the ‘[emotional, tender music playing]’ and parallels between byler and jancy, also even if they haven’t started to build their relationship up in a romantic way in s4, y’all remember how in less than a season Jonathan and Nancy slept together or how Max and Lucas got together in a spawn of a season (mind u they met in the same season). Byler knows each other since little kids and always had potential y’all are just in denial.

12. “Why make Mike queer” - why not? Do y’all actually believe that one of the main characters plot line is just about getting with the girl at the end? Even if it was (which lets be so fr now) why would Mike get with El from the first season (they kissed in s1 and basically u can count that as they’re together wtv) if that was his main goal as a character? Well written shows have something called a “character development” which the producers of st love apparently, so why make Mike just a bland character that just gets with the main girl character, and why have El date the first guy she ever met, I just think it would be very shallow.

That’s all, this was written in a silly way cuz it’s basically me talking to myself, it’s okay if u ship mileven I just really don’t like disrespectful fans that yell at bylers and call the ship disgusting, I don’t care about what who ships as long as we all just have fun and not yell at each other 🫶🏻

[timetobeaghost]

Breaking my silence

I guess fandom doesn't take leaker maire3xx on X too seriously. But I do, I buy it - like 72% buy it, who would want to be sure. People brought the counter argument that they said Lucas would die in S4, but they claim they just hinted hints about shit getting real in the Creel house, that was taken as Lucas dying. Which from the way they talk I can believe? Are there better counter arguments?

Here a summery go what they said for S5:

Byler endgame, it happens in E5

Before that there is a scene that WILL make us cry best described by the saddest Adele lyrics ever "Please, stay where you are, don't come any closer, don't try to change my mind, I'm being cruel to be kind. (O MY GAWD) I can not love you in the dark, it seems like we're oceans apart" And it's Mike -> Will, so get ready

Emotionality of the Byler arc is 10 out of 10

Emotionality of the Elmike arc, which they described as 💔 is 8/10, Scene on the rooftop is "very emotional!

Will gets so possessed, like they won't shut up about it. completely super constantly possessed. No powers but when possessed. Dangerous and veiny when possessed, which he so is. Like fr.

Vecna gets involved in the love triangle in that he wants to break it up. To isolate them.

Will in the bts pic is a spoiler because plot and time jump, we'll get it when we watch the show.

The Sinclairs move away and Lucas is not in Hawkins High to be bullied alongside Dustin and Mike. The Sinclair siblings insert themselves into the plot somehow using Erica's friend Tina. Lucas is then hyper focused on Max. Caleb has not filmed yet (or when they said this not so long ago)

Max is playing a large part in not the real world. Which might be for the best... Sadie has filmed one scene.

Eddie is back. Just is.

No conflict between Mike and either Dustin or Lucas, they're tight. And also have scenes with the 3 of them.

Stonathan BFF, Rockie is happening, duh. Lots of new interaction, half the cast at the barn and also radio station. (not Lucas tho) Everyone is closer to everyone.

El gets a happy ending.

Jonathan dies. No, he doesn't! Or does he? (I'm telling you they are sometimes playing, but dear god I hope Jonatan doesn't die.

Mike is in danger, his plot in 4 emojis: 🔻⚠️❤️🗡️

Wills arc in 4 emojis (he possessed) 👦🏻 👁️*hand I can't find*❤️ ( hand might say stop or be laid on someone's chest?)

Idk I can work with all that. Unless Jonathan dies, then I hate this show!

[beepboop358]

Hi. I am/was a mileven defender until I saw that scene in the van and Mike's copy pasted monologue that felt like it wasn't even meant for El but for Will.

As a straight person, I don't think I can relate to a queer person's frustration or anger over Season 4 even if I tried.

And I'm sorry but that's why it's hard for me to understand why you guys have given up on your ship when it's obvious that my people are the ones that should be getting prepared for a massive straight bait.

I hate to even think about it and it saddens me to the core but Mike is clearly projecting. He doesn't feel about El the way he feels about Will and it shows. I think El truly loves Mike tho so it's even more frustrating to me.

I wanted mileven to work so badly and I still do but given Mike's strange behavior and the way Will and Mike look at each other and the way they stand side by side between two other canon ships in the final scene and actually all their scenes together, it's hard to not to believe that your ship is the one they're going for.

I guess it's a good thing that they are planning on making the gay ship endgame. I know you guys need some decent representation and I'm sorry about the people that are mocking you for it on Twitter or in real life. All of that doesn't mean I suddenly started shipping them tho. I'm still clinging on to mileven. Probably forever.

I just wanted to acknowledge that I think it's weird that many of you have lost hope. But again, I can't really relate to the things queer people are experiencing and going through on a daily basis so I want to apologize if anything I just said was insensitive.

hello!

This was really interesting to read, thank you so much for sharing, genuinely! I hadn’t thought about it from this perspective before because i’ve mostly seen mike/el fans only celebrating after s4, and i’ve gotten several rude messages since vol. 2’s release over me being delusional and crazy for thinking byler would ever happen. It’s super interesting we are both doubting our ships and convinced the other will now be canon after s4… and I find it really fascinating that as a mileven shipper you thought Mike’s speech to El sounded like it was meant for Will…

I still have faith that byler could happen, and the ending shots really make me think it will, but i’m worried that they won’t be able to fix the damage they did to it in s4 fully, in s5, because I thought the writing in s4 was very different than what we have previously seen in the show, and so many characters didn’t get the development i thought they deserved. Regardless of whose ship ends up being endgame, I just hope that they fix it and actually resolve something in s5 so it ends on a healthy note for the couple. I believe everyone should ship whoever they want, so its totally fine by me if you don’t ship byler. Also, thank you <3 It definitley sucks to be mocked by so many people rn LOL.

I hope you’re well! xx

[emblazons]

I think the thing that makes me sometimes "doubt" Byler endgame is how the writers seem to treat Will in the narrative by either making him nonexistent, sidelined and unimportant overall with often minimum screentime. Idk. A lot of ppl tried to explain why it was necessary for him to be sidelined but that resulted in the audience thinking that Byler has no chance of becoming canon and that Will is just a useless background character. Add the monologue moment in S4 and Mike constantly talking about all in S4, how do you explain the duffers will make the narrative fit in what they have showed so far in the show? Most ppl will think Byler came out of nowhere and if Will gets a huge moment regarding fixing/saving the world ppl will think it came out of blue and there was no buildup. It takes really pains to prove Will's importance and Mike's love for Will. And not sure if the writers will manage that.

—so I’ve answered some version of this kind of doubt several times on this blog before, so I’m going to direct you to those posts, so as not to reinvent the wheel:

Will's Taking a Backseat in S3 + Dustin companion piece

The Duffers, Show v Tell, and people missing subtext

The Duffers Aren't Writing "Casual TV"...they're writing for themselves and people like them

Why people assume ST is written poorly (like other shows)

General Audiences, Media Literary, and "Catching" Byler

Why I Don't Understand "Duffer Doubt"

On: "Objective" Byler (and ST) Commentary

The Duffers, the "GA," and how your value system affects how you go about interpreting (or missing things in) media

Mike & Will's 3 season arc (and how it fits in the wider narrative)

On: M&R being "2 Straight White Guys" writing a queer story

+ a cut for more thoughts about how Will really wasn't all that sidelined lmao

That said: if I’m honest, I fundamentally disagree with the premise that the duffers somehow need to “make the narrative of Will fit into s5,” as though he hasn’t been integral to the Hawkins connection to the UD since literally day one.

That, combined with the fact that he was barely even in season one outside of flashbacks (and yet still managed to carry all of S2) + hasn’t really been sidelined at all if you know how to read emotional beats and not just “action” ones? Like, sure, him not being front and center was true in S3, but given that he is the center of all of Mike’s emotional decisions across all of S4 and is now quite literally holding the “main relationship” (which it’s not, but we’ll let that go) together…saying he’s not central to what’s to come given his active connection to El, Mike, every single Byers, the rest of the Party and now Henry/Vecna as we file back into Hawkins is insane.

IMO, the real problem (and at the risk of sounding like every byler critic on the internet) is that the show is made of an ensemble cast who have all had their rounds in the spotlight over the seasons…which means that Will is not going to always be at the fore front of the action, because this is not The Will Show and not every season is written with his story as its primary narrative core. That said, if you are paying attention to the emotional and even supernatural beats of the show, you can clearly see where they’ve set Will up to hold an important and even critical role in the final season—

—especially given that characters like Henry and Vecna didn’t even technically exist 2 seasons ago, and yet now hold primary weight in the story and in the minds of this “general audience” people love acting like matter most to the Duffers (even tho they have repeatedly said they don’t lmao).

I personally do not give a damn about what “the GA” thinks is possible given that half of them were mad when Will was central to the story in S2 (the 'S2 was my least favorite season / the season I don't watch much of people) and half of them couldn’t even tell he was gay, despite being plain as day to anyone who doesn’t need every single beat of the story spelled out for them….and that the duffers literally and repeatedly make fun of people for doing I throughout the show.

All that said...I respect your right to doubt, but…of all the things I could doubt The Duffers being able to pull off in the minds of this nebulous “GA” everyone thinks is so stupid they haven't picked up on any subtext or plain narrative (which I could make a strong case they aren't...which is why they pitch such a bitch lmao), making Will central to the 5th season after all the pains they’ve taken to flesh out both his connection to the UD and his romantic feelings/sexuality is not one of them.

It's not as nearly "blindsiding" as people seem to think it is—because the second you stop thinking everyone is heteronormative, you realize a lot of people who just aren't as loud as the naysayers on the internet see it plain as day.

[kittykat940]

see thats what worries me tho. i dont think jopper or jancy were written well. even lumax, they all follow the "attraction at first sight" bull we keep on critisizing mileven for

imagine the duffers are just weirdo reddit dude bros ill cry

I don't think j*ncy or j*pper have that though they built a friendship first and the duffers have said they do not believe love at first sight I think we have enough evidence for byler endgame a lot of people hate milkvan now after s4 and I think that was the duffers intention and a lot of people love byler again the duffers intention anon if you are that worried I suggest looking at byler proof videos listen to people talk about that as a matter of fact i have the perfect person you can watch @cloudycleric go watch his videos he's amazing ❤️ much love anon I hope you're doubt goes away soon I'm also posting videos on here check them out!

[byersfanclub]

it’s fine if millie ships microwave oven, but the thing is, half of what mike told her in the monologue was a lie and we the audience know this because we saw what happened season one. mike truly did not care what happened to eleven, he was ready to have his mom send her back to an asylum. it’s very obvious if we watch back that he did not fall in love at first sight. (note: stranger writes twt said they don’t believe in love at first sight) all mike wanted was to find will. and while i do believe mike loves eleven platonically, they aren’t meant to be in a romantic relationship. season three is full of relationship issues but “resolved” (not really tho) and they could have kept it that way into season four but they didn’t. they cause more issues for them. why keep adding issues? and it’s not just small ones— not even normal ones. it’s huge plot heavy issues. i truly believe that will has officially been brought in as another love interest for mike in season four, it makes too much sense for that not to be the case. we all know if will was a girl, people would see it so clearly. everything is shot how a love triangle would be shot. there’s not reason to introduce will as a potential love interest for mike if they aren’t planning to do anything with it. and i’m sorry but having will be rejected but get his best friend back is still not enough for will to get a truly happy ending in my own honest opinion. will deserves to be happy, mike makes him happy, mike makes him feel like he’s not a mistake even when he does feel like one, mike is his knight, mike is his heart. will has gone from having a crush to having full blown real feelings for his best friend. meanwhile mitochondria happened so quickly you could barely blink in between. eleven doesn’t even really understand relationships— why is she being tossed into one so quickly? it all just… doesn’t make sense unless byler is endgame.

sorry for the rant.

[a-whole-new-specie]

|Byler and Jancy is Endgame and here is why|

To be clear is just a theory that i had after rewatching St(1-4), so i can be totally wrong, but hear me out.

Let's begin with the Hellfire gang playing D&D in the beginning of season 4. At the end of the game, Eddie says that unfortunately an 11 is not strong enough, it can't beat Vecna, so then Erica rolls the dice and gets a 20, which is a success meaning that El can't win Vecna (she can tho win 001, which she did in a way).

I find it interesting that before the success(20) it was a failure(11)

So where does It leads to Byler and Jancy being Endgame?

Well, In the Hawkins Lab we get to see what really happened, El managed to win 001 with the power of ¿Love? Kinda. We see El's memories which shows her mother saying that she loves El, so instead to using a memory that brings the feelings of anger or sadness, Eleven used one that brought her the theme of love. She was loved by her mother.

Since, i've noticied that the theme love is important in this season, like:

Mike not being able to say he loves El

We have Will loving Mike (finally)

Lumax making peace with each other

Jonathan and Nancy being distant

Steve and Nancy getting closer

Hopper and Joyce meeting again

All the plots in a way leads to this love thing

Also, words always have meanings in stranger things ( bullshit, crazy, crazy together, love...)

I think Stancy is a parallel to M*leven strongly in this season, and Jancy would parallel to Byler, we've got a scene actually of them exactly like a Jancy one

Then, remember Eddie saying that Nancy must love Steve coz she jumped in the water to save him?( She didn't hesitated) It interconnects with all the Mike getting in the front line, worrying about El and literally getting defensive of El sometimes.

Mike does love El, but is just like Nancy loves Steve

Not in a romantic way.

It's also interesting here that both Nancy and Mike never said they loved Steve/El, and that's why there is this rapprochement of Nancy and Steve, it's not because they gonna be together at the end, but because Steve still loves Nancy. Same for Eleven, she loves Mike and there is a need for a closure for the characters to move on.

So it' s a dinamic of Steve loving Nancy romantically, Nancy loving him platonically and Nancy being reciprocal.

It's the SAME thing that's is happening to Mike, El and Will

It's like El = Steve, Mike= Nancy and Will= Jonathan

That's why I think Jancy and Byler is endgame, they are setting this interactions to close the arc that was m*leven and Stancy so they can move on with the finale couples to season 5.

They have to solve this first so they can be finally happy. Same goes to the couples Lumax and Jopper ( that I also think is endgame) they are reuniting, they are solved.

That explains why Mike can't say he loves El, even if he lies it won't save El if she gets vecna'd, but it would save Will 👀

The thing is 11 is a miss. It just won't be.

The Duffers brother said themselves that everything that is going on is planned, so Will liking Mike this season, Mike not being able to say he loves El being brought up this season, Nancy being apart and Stancy acting like a mirror to M*leven this season is not a coincidence.

Coz it's 99% of sure that Will is gonna get Vecna'd, just music is not gonna save him, it's about the feelings too. Vecna targets people with traumas and Max was able to run away not just bcz of the music but because of the good memories of the ones she loves

Both romantically and platonically

Noah also said that Byler is being built up since season 1 and that now it's on it's peak just adds to why Byler is endgame and it's gonna make to S5

I also think Will is way more important than people give him credit for, when he gets the Hawkins shit gonna get crazy( I think he have powers, pls Duffer brothers 🙏)

Well, wrapping it up, I think at the end El will finally learn what love is (even more if she reunites with Hopper) learn what kind of love Mike have towards her and honestly, this season is so self growth to her that I think she's gonna be alright, she needs some alone time, be her own persona.

I think she's gonna love herself more too :) wishing her all happiness, to all characters honestly loves them all.

I just think that if someone dies it will be Eddie :/

That's it, sorry any English mistakes it's not my first language and I should be sleeping 😩 Byler see what u do to me. Aaa.

Leave your theories, what u think, I love reading it.

Also, Jonathan is gonna reunite with Nancy soon too in Hawkins( we hope) , so we'll see, even more bcs Nancy is under Vecna's curse 👀

Very interesting, good night Byler lovers

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

There are so many things wrong with this post, I don’t even know where to begin.

“It’s like you actively want him to be a terrible person… it’s like you actually think Will is petty enough to be jealous about Mike’s love confession to El”

This is such a strange thing to say because what are they even attacking here? They’re not attacking the concept of canon reciprocated Byler; they’re attacking the literal text of the show- Will being in love with Mike- and twisting it so that it’s somehow “petty” for Will to be a real human being- a real human teenage boy, mind you- with genuine feelings. Is he supposed to feel no emotion at all? Loving Mike and feeling heartbroken doesn’t make him a terrible person? What are they even saying? And to call it “petty” when Will did nothing but show how selfless he was all season? When Will is the one who repeatedly pushed Mike Huckabee together and encouraged Mike to keep monologuing even as it dug his own romantic grave and visibly killed him inside? You don’t have to ship Byler if you don’t want to- it will still be endgame tho, lmao- but why can’t everyone unite on feeling empathetic and compassionate towards Will and the impossible situation he finds himself in? Why is there such a Mad Libs instinct to downplay Will’s CANON feelings for his lifelong best friend?

“… when it literally saved her life.”

It literally didn’t? I’m not saying it played NO role in the battle at all- that’s a separate debate- but I guarantee you the thing that gave El the strength to fight on was NOT Mike finally saying I Love You in an incoherent monologue where he said nothing specific about her, repeatedly emphasized her superpowers, and also talked about the Benny’s Burgers T-Shirt that almost swallowed her whole when they met. If any aspect of Mike’s monologue inspired her, it was the “Fight! Fight!” portion as she looked to her best friend Max and gained courage to continue fighting for her. Her true love. Not Mike’s “love confession,” motivated by Will’s painting, which they didn’t even talk about after. This isn’t a Disney movie. The cosmic Midleven love didn’t save the world. The gates opened. Max fell into a coma. The heroes lost. Hawkins fell.

“You think Will is such a bad person that his sister is dying and he’s thinking “gosh, I wish Mike loved me instead”?

Will contains multitudes. He can both deeply love his sister and want her to live, which is why he’s pushing Mike to continue monologuing, while also wishing Mike loved him instead. Which again, is a CANON, central aspect of Will’s character, not something Bylers are just making up just to ship two characters together. Of course, Will wishes Mike loved him. Will Byers adores Mike Wheeler, AND he adores him enough to attempt to rip the bandaid off so that your rapidly sinking ship can see one more day and his bestie can be happy even though he’s clearly not. That was like the entire point of their S4 storyline and why Will was so emotional every time Mike talked to him.

“According to your theories, [Mike] has been stringing Will’s sister along for over a year while actually being in love with someone else”

According to what theories? That’s such a weird oversimplification and exaggeration of Byler theories. It’s a straw man argument. No one, not even those who place Mike the furthest possible point on the Kinsey scale, believes that “stringing Will’s sister along for over a year” is an accurate description of what Mike has been doing. Do they have no compassion for the complexity of the situation that a queer Mike would find himself in: the possible internalized homophobia, the definite confusion, the likely terror and uncertainty, the guilt and self-hatred, the butterflies that probably feel like pterodactyls? The two people he’s closest to abruptly move away across the country- his lifelong best friend who he might feel something more for and the girl with superpowers he’s literally dating and trauma-bonded to and whose dad just died?

“If Will got together with that theoretical Mike that would make him an asshole”

Good thing you’re right, in a roundabout way. That theoretical Mike doesn’t exist and is based on a strawman you made up. Mike literally can’t be “stringing El along” since neither Will nor El have been present in Hawkins. But even if they had been, and even if he had consciously chosen to lie to El about his feelings, and even if Mike has made mistakes- which he obviously has: he’s fourteen and a human being - it still wouldn’t make him an “asshole.” He’s just a scared and confused queer kid trying desperately to stay normal, trying desperately to stay afloat. Somehow our theories make Mike seem like an asshole to you, but Mike being rude and weird to Will for no reason (not even being able to hug him!), Mike not being able to tell his girlfriend he loves her and openly gaslighting her about it, and Mike crumpling up romantic letters from El with no explanation all make him perfectly valid???

“This is specifically about the “canon Byler trutherism crowd” that insists Byler is gonna happen in season 5.”

Well, I mean, of course there are Byler enjoyers out there who don’t believe it’ll be canon or who lost faith after volume II and never regained it (we welcome back all prodigal children at any time), but yeah… one of the central aspects of our ship especially following season 4’s pretty transparent Byler plotline is the belief that it will be canon, not because of any arbitrary or “delusional” reason but literally because the narrative is setting it up and televising it. But you got me, I guess?

“Mike just suddenly ditches El and gets with Will”

Strawman. Stop it, you know no one is arguing that’s what will happen. We believe there’s a nuanced and beautiful storyline being set up. And most of us believe El will break up with Mike first. But regardless, there’s nothing sudden about Byler in season 5 when Mike has always looked like he wants to risk it all and kiss Will.

“This is only directed at the one’s I’ve seen bashing I Can't Believe It's Not Butter! constantly and harassing Mulan II blogs and just overall bad fandom etiquette.”

Says the ship that constantly sends out insane, unhinged homophobic asks and openly trash talks Will, wishing death on him and calling him slurs? You won’t catch any misogynistic anti-El asks sliding into your DMs. Look- I’m not denying there are toxic Bylers out there. No fandom is composed of saints. But when you survey where the vast majority of the “bad fandom etiquette” comes from, it’s pretty lopsided lmao.

[carigm]

Today Millie had a fan panel in which she answered that her ideal ending would be Mike and El getting married and Will being happy and confessing to Mike (lol) and ofc the Stranger Things fandom kicked up the old Byler vs Mlvn war once again, regardless of the fact she doesn’t write the show. But I want to break down some points here about things I’ve been noticing today, but also for a while and that I think need to be discussed. Keep reading if you want.

I’ve seen a lot of hostility towards Byler and Bylers on Twitter lately, saying we’re delusional and don’t know what we’re talking about. This always seems to be the go to argument even tho it’s all in the narrative. Today it got really bad after Millie’s comments and even people that were merely disagreeing with her opinions got called everything from delusional to misogynistic.

IF the Duffers suddenly decided to ignore everything they’ve carefully crafted and put into their narrative that doesn’t make anyone delusional, it just makes them terrible writers. Who would be doing a great disservice to all three characters involved in the love triangle.

There’s been an insurgence (on Twitter) of so called “Will stans” who seem to be completely fine with the idea of mlvn being endgame because “Will can just get another boyfriend” Not only is this insulting to what the writers have already established for Will’s character but it’s also a defense and endorsement of the worst kind of lazy/bad writing that could graze our screens.

The Duffers CHOSE to tie Will’s character arc to Mike’s and El’s.

How do you expect them to undo that and create a well fleshed out character that’s deserving of Will, in 8 episodes that we know are not just gonna be dedicated to Will’s supposed love interest, because there’s a shit ton of stuff to resolve?

If this was the route the Duffers were going for, they could’ve clearly given Will a love interest last season (like with Robin) or two seasons ago (like with Dustin) And yet somehow, people think it would be totally okay for Will to get the most meaningless romance of all time as the writers ignore the same story they’ve created.

Another point I’ve been seeing a lot from these people is “Mike won’t come out. Let it go. He’s just a very unlikable character” What does that say about the quality of the writing and content you’re willing to consume then? You’re okay with characters being poorly written? And please someone explain to me how Mike’s actions, especially in S4, make any sense unless he likes Will.

The more people try to simplify this story the more plot holes and inconsistencies it creates.

The funny thing is that a lot of these “Will stans” used to be Bylers themselves but are so deathly afraid it won’t be endgame that they’ve started to use the same rhetoric mlvns use every day to justify what would be atrocious writing.

And this next thing might be controversial but I think it needs to be said.

So many people on Twitter have hit those who disagree with Millie’s opinion today with “y’all are misinterpreting Millie’s words” and let me tell you, no one has. She’s been saying the same stuff for forever and quite frankly she’s never had a coherent thought about Will. Which is fine, at the end of the day that’s not the character she plays. However, I haven’t forgotten how last year (at another panel) she was asked about Byler and said it was just a reflection of Finn and Noah’s friendship and that was what people were seeing…

Whatever the fuck that means, I guess.

Again, I’m not taking her answer today too seriously cause truth be told she’s been saying some version of this since she was around twelve, and has even at times said she was joking about it. If a wedding were actually happening she wouldn’t be able to say it cause I’d literally be a spoiler, even if she doesn’t have the scripts yet or doesn’t know I’m sure there’s things that would be off limits for any actor to say at this point.

But this defense squad that formed today begging for us to not misconstrue her words because “she really cares about Will’s character” is laughable.

Her answers regarding the topic of the love triangle have been anything but nuanced. If she doesn’t want to get into it or address it, that’s fine. It’s her choice.

But of course, mlvn stans are gonna take her answers seriously, as well as those who are now “Will stans” who basically ship mlvn too.

And to me there’s a fundamental flaw regarding the ship wars in this fandom, which these people don’t seem to grasp. At this point, it isn’t so much about “which ship is better” but “which outcome isn’t violently homophobic”

That’s it.

I don’t care how much you ship mlvn, this is the undisputed truth here.

But when your lead actors act like it’s not a big deal, it’s no surprise the fandom doesn’t give a shit.

I can only hope the Duffers were smart enough to see reason and were able to write the only outcome that won’t set television back around 10 years or so.

And hopefully one day, when S5 is out, we can get a more in depth and honest conversation with the actors about all of this.

As for me, I’m gonna lay low and not give much of a fuck until we start getting those Reddit leaks, which were very much accurate for last season. I’ll take a peak at those, and depending on what they look like, I’ll stay around or dip completely.

If you read all of this, thank you.

[demadogs]

Hi! So I left byler tumblr after the fiasco that was volume 2 and I just kinda came back, and I see that you and everyone seem to be back on thinking byler is 100% endgame? Can you explain me what happened, and why are people still hopeful after mike's monologue?

sure! i literally just scrolled all the way down to my posts in early july to see what we were all thinking and wow it was a rollercoaster. good call just dipping out and coming back when we were back on our bullshit lmao.

so after volume two came out i think all of our initial reaction was sadness or anger but it was also a lot of confusion. i was so beyond confused at first especially when i got to the last scene and they framed all the couples and byler like that. after looking at my first posts after volume 2 i was pretty doubtful it would happen but i kept on thinking about the closet framed kiss. that was the number one thing that kept me wondering bc WHY would they do that if hes not in the closet.

about a week later was the first time i saw something that really made me think differently and it was actually from a mlvn shippers perspective. idk if this was anybody elses true “wait a damn minute” moment but for me it totally was. it was an anon sent to a byler blog from a nonbyler shipper who was rooting for mlvn (one of the respectful, normal ones) and they were basically saying they dont understand why all the bylers are so sad thinking they got queerbaited when to them, again someone who was rooting for mlvn not byler, the fact that the monologue seemed like a copy/paste of wills speech in the van only made then lose hope in mlvn bc it didnt seem sincere. that was so wild to me.

what brought us back to confidence in byler was mostly just us stepping away from the initial shock and disappointment of the monologue and remembering all the things that originally made us confident in byler endgame. i posted this towards the end of july where i just list almost everything that i held onto, not really as sources of evidence, but just genuine questions of what the hell the purpose of all of them were if not for byler endgame. most queerbaiting is just little things they could get away with but with byler the show would have genuine plotholes if they didnt go through with it. none of mike wheelers actions post s2 make sense if hes not in the closet.

i think overall it was pretty slow to get us all back to the point of 100% certainty of byler endgame tho. now i never see anyone saying they have doubts but all summer that was basically everyones posts going back and forth and i dont blame them. i used to hate the monologue and genuienly think it was a mistake but now i think with the potential of mike getting vecna’d and called out for him lying to el, especially with “friends dont lie” being such a huge part of the show, it could pay off so well. and that one anon was right, he was basically restating what will said in the van not knowing that that was wills feelings not els. now i realize its a perfect use of the miscommunication trope.

also just the fact that the tag on here grew tremendously. i think we had around 8k before volume 2 and now we have 300k. hundreds of thousands of people didnt care enough about byler to follow it on here but after volume 2 they realized something was up? thats very telling. i think a lot of people who believed in byler before volume 2 lost hope when they saw the monologue but for people who werent byler shippers, thats the scene that made them believe it was actually happening, which is pretty interesting.

but yeah i wouldnt say there was one specific thing like an interview or script that made us all confident again, it was just slowly remembering everything from previous seasons and the reassurance that one scene does not erase all of mikes questionable actions or all of their suspicious filming choices from earlier seasons.