#people who hate jiang cheng are objectively wrong

[chalkrevelations]

Ugh, I only just made a connection: Of course, Jiang Cheng let Wei Wuxian leave after Guanyin Temple - he also let A-jie leave him to be with the man she loved, whatever his thoughts and feelings about That Fucking Guy or about being left behind and alone.

And now I am unwell.

[chalkrevelations]

#people keep bringing chenqing up and it confuses me cause i thought mxtx talked about it in an interview? or was it an extra? #that the reason jc kept chenqing vs suibian was cause he thought wwx valued chenqing more than suibian #which is heartbreaking honestly cause suibian is like. symbolic of the twin prides thing #jc didnt think suibian was valuable to wwx anymore. so he took chenqing and cared for it in hopes that wwx would at least come back for that #hehgdjsnsndks #and like even if chenqing WAS just bait for wwx jc still didnt have to keep chenqing in condition #jc took care of chenqing cause he thought wwx cared about it simple as that #im always so sad that wwx doesnt understand this. bruh its been 13 yrs you think your damn flute is in good condition for no reason??!???! (via @kumomist)

I hadn't ever really thought about the implications that Jiang Cheng kept Chenqing over Suibian because he thought that the symbol of Wei Wuxian's time as Yiling Laozu and choice of the Wens was more highly valued by Wei Wuxian than the symbol of his time as a member of Yunmeng Jiang, but yeah. That makes a kind of horrible sense.

I'm certainly thinking about it now.

Jiang Cheng being described as a "sentimental fool" is perhaps one of the only rumours confirmed to be true about him. The condition Chenqing had been kept in, well cleaned, in working condition and carried on his person is a testament of that.

We see that in the scenes prior that Jiang Cheng cherises his belongings that he values and cares deeply for (he is noted to clean his sword regularly, a valued possession of his, clearly). Chenqing, giving its sentimental value and who it belonged to, was thus also a cherished item of his.

Jiang Cheng really is all bark and no bite. And Wei Wuxian was wrong to assume that he vehemently hated him all these years. His feelings towards Wei Wuxian were complicated but despite all the talk and all the rumours, we can infer from this piece of evidence that he truly didn't hate Wei Wuxian. The condition Chenqing was kept in is proof of that and I believe that was what MXTX was trying to convey when she included this fine detail.

[chalkrevelations]

I -

What in the world?

Surely I did not see a post in which someone said that the difference between Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji was that Jiang Cheng was an emotionally stunted asshole who can't let go of a grudge, while Lan Wangji managed to move on in a healthy way after Wei Wuxian's death, including grieving in a healthy way, coping, and forgiving both Wei Wuxian (for up and dying on him) and himself (for not being able to save WWX).

Surely not.

The sheer irony of saying that the difference between Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji is that LWJ is not an emotionally stunted asshole who can't let go of a grudge, when every bit of interaction between Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng after Wei Wuxian's death, up to and including the time after his resurrection, is icily informed by the gigantic seething grudge Lan Wangji holds against Jiang Cheng, which you will pry from Lan Wangji's cold dead fingers and which he has built on projecting his mountain of grief and anger - at both himself and everyone around him for failing WWX - onto Jiang Cheng is just ...

Mn. Very healthy. Much cope. Certainly, in no way grudgey.

[lgbtlunaverse]

Most annoying NMJ or JC take is when someone that dislikes them is like "oh you're a fan of him? *scoff* Well obviously you've only seen cql, where he was super watered down. In the novel he's a dislikable asshole and that's the objectively superior canon I'm working from instead of your woobified fanfic." Meanwhile your main canon is novel canon and you genuinely find novel Jiang Cheng and Nie Mingjue complex sympathetic characters.

[misrepresentedmorallygrey]

PROPAGANDA

Jiang Cheng

There is an entire Canon Jiang Cheng tag dedicated to him due to people fighting about if depicting him in certain ways is ooc. All discourse enivitably revolves around him like a carosel.

He is one of the sntagonists, but the author herself said he's a guy with a "knife mouth, tofu heart." He's done shit to learn from, but he is NOT EVIL YALL.

People will be like "he HATES Wei Wuxian and therefore he is Evil" like ?????? All of his 134809 issues come from loving his big brother Wei Wuxian too much. Also hating someone doesn't make you evil, torturing people does <3 which he and Wei Wuxian did together as a siblings bonding activity <3 The atrocities and the being a huge bitch are very real but people are out there going "he doesn't care about his family" that's the single thing he goes insane about forever is caring about his family. Imagine taking the moral high ground over things that are comparably insignificant AND straight up wrong, heartbreaking Jiang Cheng yells at the top of his lungs about everything he is insane but he is also at the same time the most normal of men. This is a man who is stuck in traffic. This is a man who takes his nephew to the playground. Do you get it.

Getaway

Prefacing this with a major spoiler warning and also yes, he did all that, but consider this from his point of view: The guy who started a few million years of civil war for your home planet, forever cementing this as your species' reputation, even for people who didn't come from said home planet, got off with a slap on the wrist from the war crimes trial and his punishment is to be a co-captain on the spaceship you joined to experience post-war fun adventures. Everything is now SOILED for you because you were only born in the first place to fight in that war against him but despite the millions of dead, Megatron is allowed to live??? Well, we can't have that, now can we? Let's send Megatron and his close supporters (literally the rest of the co-captains and some other guys) to a moon and call an execution squad with a vendetta out for Megatron's blood to go pay them a visit. Anyone who objects also gets sent to the moon, gets their memory wiped and altered to fit your narrative, or becomes payment for a cannibal. Look, I don't like Getaway but that's because he's so well written. Yes, he absolutely hurted all my favorites and killed Atomizer with his barehands for doubting the plan but also can you really blame him? He had a point in trying to carry out his own justice because the government couldn't be bothered to but his way of going about it was insanely ruthless and cruel. He's the first villain I've ever hated for being a guy who had the right thoughts and I couldn't argue against him. What's worse is that Getaway is literally some guy, unlike the all-powerful protagonist squad who got ejected from their own ship. Getaway worked for this and I gotta give him that credit.

He's a horrible person, I admit that, but people act like was 100% in the wrong, full stop. I'd say if he went about his anti-megatron plans in a different way, people wouldn't hate him as much.

[chalkrevelations]

#it really is just like 'who hurt you?!' and then a 30 episode answer (via @mispronouncing-michaelangelo)

Genuinely believe that the biggest and most heart-wrenching immediate twist from those first two 16-years-later to the flashback episodes start is Jiang Cheng’s character/personality

Jiang Cheng when you first meet him in the future is a stern and serious man who does not smile or seem to willingly speak to Lan Wanji, who would lightning whip a stranger who he suspects is possessed by Wei Wuxian, this great and terrible villain

Jiang Cheng in the past is immediately a sometimes serious but frequently silly boy, who excitedly follows his big brother Wei Wuxian around everywhere and copies what he does and clearly loves him so much

​the knowledge that something is going to happen to shatter that idol worship style big brother love is immediately obvious and hangs over the show sword of Damocles style

[lryghe]

MDZS thoughts; jiang cheng

I have been meaning to talk about Jiang Cheng for a while considering he is a very special character and someone that I love thinking about. Because he’s just so interesting to think about, and his closeness to the main character of the story is probably why he’s so highlighted despite the fact he doesn't contribute to the plot the same way all other characters are that have been explored in depth (e.g. Lan Wangji, Nie Huaisang, Jin Guangyao). Yes, this post will contain spoilers, but not just from the novel this time, I would like to incorporate elements from the live action (despite my dislike of it). This may end up being not nearly as thought out as I usually am with my posts, to which I apologise for in advance (also for those who may eventually expect the second half of my MXTX themes and conventions post, you will never get it. I lost inspiration and my thought process deleted itself so I have nothing for you).

I saw a post the other day and it was exploring the idea of characters that are driven by grief and rage, characters who devolve over the length of the story, characters who change, but never for the better. And my first thoughts were like Azula, or maybe Sasuke, but then I remembered that my favourite fictional character of all time, Jiang Cheng is Right Here and he’s so interesting to analyse. Because he is that character that is driven by grief and rage. He has been fighting since he was like 17 and became Jiang Sect Leader at the cost of everyone around him. He is the character that devolves over the length of the story, because he’s so strong for the majority of it, but 13 years of mourning and a revived brother who turns his whole world upside down again is so so damaging to him. And he is that character who changes for the worse, because young Jiang Cheng was always so willing to go along with his older brothers schemes, always so desperate for the approval of those around him, but decades of grief have worn him down to his very foundations, and he is a husk of grief disguised as rage. He no longer needs the approval of the Sect Leaders around him because he is the fearsome Sandu Shengshou, the three poisons. 

I refuse to assume a pitying role with Jiang Cheng though. I see a lot of people saying he did nothing wrong, that he was the victim in the entire situation but I seriously despise when people say this about him. Because he has very clearly done bad things, and sometimes he has no excuse. Sometimes he was just a bad guy, and that’s okay. The live action went on this whole narrative about how Wei Wuxian was a total victim in everything that happened and people have started applying this type of narrative to every other characters, which is so silly in places because MXTX creates these characters to be criticised. They are well rounded and whole characters, and there is a whole spectrum of grey in regards to their actions and motivations. You are definitely allowed to feel bad for characters though, who am I to tell you what to do, but remember to be objective in analysis. Jiang Cheng ‘tortured’ demonic cultivators because he hated his brother so much (allegedly), he abandoned his brother when he was the Yiling Patriarch, he is harsh and cruel and he’s always able to find the one thing to hurt those around him (even to Wei Wuxian, who is notoriously good at not being hurt by what others say to him). 

And to ignore this would be a disservice. Jiang Cheng is forever a part of Wei Wuxian’s backstory, forever the character in MDZS that does not get their redemption, forever Sandu Shengshou, a poison to those surrounding him. And it’s so interesting to think about this concept of poison in relation to Jiang Cheng because objectively, it's like. Kind of true. Literally every other Jiang is dead, even the unofficial Jiang, Wei Wuxian. No one likes Jiang Cheng very much, and he’s purposefully left out of the big 3 ‘zuns’ of the cultivation world, a very informal alliance between the Lans, Nies, and Jins. Even geographically so (in reference MXTX’s presentation of where the sects would be on a real map of China) Yunmeng is isolated from all other notable sects, the only notable place nearby being the Qishan Wen and the Burial Mounds, both not being very happy places to be. His nephew Jin Ling embodies all the outward traits that people don't like about him, brash and arrogant and refusal to admit one's faults. In all senses of the world, Jiang Cheng really is a poison to everyone around him. And this idea of poison is so cool because Jiang Cheng is a background character objectively. His screen time is mostly just to further the emotional plights of Wei Wuxian but he’s such an important antagonist (of sorts!).

The time skip is both a wonderful and fearsome thing in reference to this thought, because we can only guess what happens during those 13 years where he doesn't have screen time, and although there are parts mentioned of what happens (e.g. Jin Guangyao becomes sect leader, Nie Mingjue dies, Lan Wangji goes wherever the chaos is) we don't know the details, specifically in regards to Jiang Cheng. Those 13 years is where he is pushed out of the narrative spotlight, and he’s not relevant until the whole golden core fiasco near the end, which is good because it keeps him as a background character (being otherwise would be detrimental to the themes of the novel), but scary because it takes away so much power from the other characters. 

I just want to end this by saying that I actually love Jiang Cheng and that manifests in writing long posts about how horrible and complicated he is because it's completely fine to be a bad person, that's what makes some of these characters so interesting. He is my favourite out of all of MXTX’s works, right up there alongside Luo Binghe and Xie Lian. So if you ever see me ‘dissing’ these characters, it is born from a love that compels me to analyse them.

Also I wrote this instead of revising for an assessment worth 30% of my overall grade literally an hour before said assessment worth 30% of my overall grade.

Words: 1091

Reading time: 4 mins

[spring-books]

The trouble with the mdzs fandom tags on this webbed site is that to scroll through them or to follow them is a lot like dumpster diving. some people's trash is others people's treasure etc etc. but the thing is.... there's sooooo much stuff that it's impossible to block all the unwanted stuff from getting onto your blog.

I used to be deeply meh about jiang cheng. But just scrolling the tags and trying to reblog nice art and some fun takes has radicalized me. I've had the jiang cheng tag blocked forever. He's always been the one who dragged in the worst opinions and most extreme takes on both sides. But it's just impossible to escape him seeping into the other tags.

Ive seen about ten odd hot takes about him just tonight that forced me to once again think of him.

So while we're here, I'm going to add to the pile of opinions. This isn't well thought out criticism or analysis, just some ramblings about the most polarizing character I've literally ever seen in my 16 years in fandom. This is obviously about novel Jiang Cheng, never watched the show, don't care to.

The thing about jc that I'm always surprised by is how much people care about the guy. Don't get me wrong, he's an absolutely fascinating character and kudos to mxtx for always adding the most layers to her character building. But he's just a really fucking unlikeable guy almost objectively. Most people are straight up scared of him or find him unpleasant to deal with. The only major positive interactions we really ever see are with jiang yanli, jin ling and wwx. And the wwx ones are always riddled with sharp words and unpleasant language although half joking in places(certainly not fully joking with the amount of insecurities the guy is riddled with). Just an all round piece of work.

And the thing is, there wasnt a moment in the book that i sat and thought about how bad he has it, because EVERYONE that came out of that situation had it fucking bad. And if we're gonna play the trauma-lympics, he really isn't even in the top three. So, at the end of it, when I joined fandom, I was really just struck by the no. of people who could spend all their time either hating him or loving him. I'm just intrigued by what makes jiang cheng so particularly polarizing.

But at the end of the day I'm no one to yuck someone else's yum in fandom. Toxic men with mommy issues have been a staple of fictional obsessions forever and it'll continue that way. I do wish people would tag better and that the fandom would embrace the ooc tag, but that ship was burnt before it ever set sail. So, I guess I'll just keep playing dodge and blocking people for as long as i'm still here.

[chalkrevelations]

Sometimes I think about:

Lan Xichen allowing their own sect to beat his brother so badly he's scarred for the rest of his life after Lan Wangji fights Lan elders to defend Wei Wuxian vs. Jiang Cheng pushing himself bodily between his brother and Zidian, begging his mother not to beat Wei Wuxian and take his hand, despite being told the Wen forces will destroy Lotus Pier if he isn't punished.

I just

Sometimes I think about those things. And about the reputations those two men then carry around throughout their lives.

Zewu-Jun, a Jade of Lan and a member of the Venerated Triad vs. Sandu Shengshou, wielder of the Three Poisons, greed and hatred and delusion.

There are so many ways this story is about how reputation trumps reality.

[chalkrevelations]

#i can't stress enough how “he didn't speak about how harmless they are in front of other sects!” also applies to lan wangji? #like what did lan zhan do for the wen except have a day of cottagecore daydream with wwx and the kid? (via @whumpbby)

Like girl. literally no one but wwx and mianmian did anything to help the wens, why do you only care about jiang cheng. are you like, in love with him or something?

[chalkrevelations]

I just saw with my own two eyes someone saying that, well, if Jiang Cheng had just LISTENED to Wei Wuxian and STAYED PUT, he wouldn’t have lost his golden core. “Just saying.”

And you know what. YOU ARE SO RIGHT.

If only Jiang Cheng had just listened and stayed put, then Wei Wuxian would have been captured by the Wen soldiers and dragged back to Lotus Pier, been tortured and had his golden core crushed and likely subjected to various other bodily indignities that I’m just not going to mention. And then he’d have been killed and dismembered and had Wen Chao piss on the body parts, because if you think Wen Chao is going to show the same restraint with the “son of a servant,” particularly one who’s repeatedly humiliated him to his face, that he shows with the heir of one of the Great Sects, well, that’s just adorable.

But Jiang Cheng sure would have still had his golden core.

So you run off and imagine that alternate story where Jiang Cheng listened real good to his big brother.

(I can only imagine the antis wailing and gnashing of teeth over a Jiang Cheng who had listened to his brother and stayed hidden and allowed poor Wei Wuxian to take all the danger on himself, wandering around getting medicine for their sick sister all alone so that he got captured by the Wens. I can only imagine.)

[nixster627]

I do not understand how people can love Nie Mingjue but hate Jiang Cheng. Like objectively speaking, they are very similar. Like not only do they both just have anger issues in general, but they both direct their anger towards those who don't necessarily deserve it (Jiang Cheng towards Wei Wuxian and Jin Ling, Nie Mingjue towards Nie Huaisang and literally every Wen even though only Wen Ruohan was at fault for killing his father).

Even thinking about their missions in life they are similar. After his father died, Nie Mingjue wanted to kill all the Wens as punishment even though they weren't the ones to kill his father because they should have stood up to Wen Ruphan instead of letting him continue to be in power (I don't actually remember if this is canon in the book, but this is how a lot of people write it in fanfics). Jiang Cheng started hunting down and killing demonic cultivators after Wei Wuxian's death even though none of them were actually Wei Wuxian because (I'm actually a little unclear on the why so I apologize if this is wrong) he didn't want to risk Wei Wuxian coming back and ruining his life again (?).

So I don't understand how you can like one but hate the other. My assumption is because Jiang Cheng is a much bigger character than Nie Mingjue so we see him more often and his major conflict is with the main character instead of Nie Mingjue whose major conflict was always with the objectively bad people, but I also think that people forget that Wei Wuxian was in fact considered a villain by everyone (except Lan Wangji) in the canon universe for most of the novel.

[ibijau]

27 for chengxian! (◍•ᴗ•◍)❤

(Losing their memory only to have it come back after a much awaited true love’s kiss.)

Y'all really like that prompt lol I think I have at least one more ask for that one somewhere?

“And he’s been like this the whole time?” Jiang Cheng asked, repressing a shiver of disgust.

“Yes, zongzhu.”

“He didn’t even make a single inappropriate joke?”

“Not so much as a smile, zongzhu. And he said he was sorry for the inconvenience.”

Jiang Cheng gave Wei Wuxian another long look. He would have suspected a joke, but that style of humour would have more been Nie Huaisang’s thing. Wei Wuxian usually went for pranks instead of comedy. Besides, several Jiang disciples had been there when Wei Wuxian had taken in hand the cursed box, and they’d all testified to feeling a powerful discharge of Yin energy. Not only that, but the owner of the box had apparently warned them beforehand of the risk, and explained as well how to cure the curse.

True love’s kiss, of all things.

Normally, when it came to Wei Wuxian, that would have been quite an easy cure to organise. If anything, it was preventing him from indulging in those true love’s kisses that proved a challenge.

So of course this whole mess had to happen when, for once, Jiang Cheng had managed to get his shixiong to come without that damn icicle he called a husband. A favour he had only obtained because Lan Wangji was away on a Night Hunt in a place where resentment toward the feared Yiling patriarch remained too great for Wei Wuxian to go with him. It would take a few days until Lan Wangji could be warned of this incident and returned to administer his cure.

Until then, Jiang Cheng was stuck with this stranger who didn’t look like his shixiong, and didn’t even act like him either.

“At least it’s an improvement over his normal personality,” his first disciple scoffed. “Let’s all enjoy it while it lasts.”

“Am I really that bad?” Wei Wuxian asked with open concern. “If it is inconvenient for others when I am myself, perhaps I’d better stay like this.”

Jiang Cheng huffed. Lan Wangji would never have allowed that, he knew. Someone in that marriage needed to have a personality, and it wasn’t going to be the second jade of Gusu Lan. Although perhaps if they were both equally boring, then perhaps there would be a divorce, and Jiang Cheng could get his shixiong back.

A most tempting plan, except for the fact that this man before him just wasn’t Wei Wuxian, and thus wasn’t worth keeping around.

“Send for Lan Wangji,” Jiang Cheng reluctantly ordered. “And you, come with me,” he added toward Wei Wuxian. “I’m not letting you sleep at some inn when you’re in that state. I’ll have your room prepared, you’re staying where I can see you until you’re better.”

The man who wasn’t Wei Wuxian meekly followed him without a single objection, nor any attempt at teasing. Jiang Cheng found it almost sickening, which surprised him. He’d spent most of his life wishing Wei Wuxian would learn to act more appropriately and to show proper deference to those around him. By all accounts, this should have pleased Jiang Cheng to finally behold a version of his shixiong that knew his place.

He refused to dwell on that, mostly because it never did him good to think too long about that insufferable shixiong of his. Instead, Jiang Cheng congratulated himself on his decision to have had a room prepared for Wei Wuxian the instant he’d heard Lan Wangji wasn’t with him. If he wasn’t going to have shameless intercourse during the whole night, there was no need to banish Wei Wuxian to an inn. Of course Jiang Cheng hadn’t been sure how to offer that bedroom to the other man without being accused of being friendly, so at least one positive side to that curse had been to remove the need for an explanation.

-

After a few days together, Jiang Cheng had determined that being stuck with that unnatural version of Wei Wuxian was the worst torture he’d ever endured, even counting being struck by discipline whips and having his golden core torn from him.

Now that he’d had time to observe the amnesiac man during the afternoon and at dinner, Jiang Cheng had realised that contrary to his first impression, something of Wei Wuxian remained through the loss of memory. It was only small things, a manner of movement, the way he held his glass of tea, or the gesture with which he sprinkled additional spices over his dinner without even tasting it. A hundred ghosts of who Wei Wuxian was, lingering in a man who had too much politeness and not enough humour.

It was striking also to realise just how little Wei Wuxian looked like himself in his current body. Usually it wasn’t noticeable because his personality made up for the difference, but at the moment he truly looked like nothing but a complete stranger wearing a disguise.

Jiang Cheng hated it.

And Wei Wuxian, apparently, noticed it.

“If you tell me more about what I’m normally like, I can try to act more like it,” he said in a forlorn voice on the fourth afternoon, while watching Jiang Cheng take care of his correspondence.

Jiang Cheng only grunted.

“Though from what everyone says, aren’t I more pleasant to have around like this?”

Another grunt. Others were idiots for not appreciating Wei Wuxian as he naturally behaved, while Jiang Cheng was equally stupid for missing it.

“Just tell me what to do,” Wei Wuxian insisted, and Jiang Cheng hated that those were words he’d always wished to hear but now felt so wrong. “Should I smile? Should I be…” he hesitated. “Should I be obnoxious?” he asked in a trembling voice, just pathetic enough that in a roundabout way, it did sound like something Wei Wuxian might say if he were joking.

Jiang Cheng, exhausted and on edge, almost laughed.

Sadly Wei Wuxian noticed, and took it as encouragement.

“I think I can do that,” he claimed, coming to sit closer until he was nearly on Jiang Cheng’s lap.

That, too, felt a little too much like the real Wei Wuxian, though normally he kept that sort of behaviour for Lan Wangji.

Well perhaps that damn icicle liked being climbed over, but Jiang Cheng did not. Not at all, not one bit, that scenario had never once appeared in his dreams, when his mind thought it could betray his good sense. So Jiang Cheng tried to push away Wei Wuxian, who quickly threw his arms around Jiang Cheng’s neck to make it harder.

“Isn’t this the sort of things I’d do?” Wei Wuxian pleaded, pressing himself harder against Jiang Cheng the more his shidi tried to get rid of him, until he was all but straddling him. “I’ve heard people say I’m flirty.”

“Yes, toward your husband!”

“Well, I don’t know him. But I know you. You’ve been kind to me those few days, even when it was obvious that you don’t like seeing me like this. You shout a lot, but I think you’re a very good person at heart.”

“I’ve tried to kill you in the past,” Jiang Cheng blurted, though he gave up on trying to push Wei Wuxian away. “More than once.”

“From what I’ve heard, you’re hardly the only one.”

Two thoughts crossed Jiang Cheng’s mind.

The first was that he might have to borrow some ideas and forbid gossip in the Lotus Pier, if Wei Wuxian had heard so much in so little time.

The second was that he probably ought to hate a little more the way Wei Wuxian was straddling him, and how close he was. Close enough that if someone were to come in, they’d get the wrong idea and think they were about to…

Jiang Cheng’s eyes flickered to Wei Wuxian’s lips. He wondered, and then mentally slapped himself for wondering.

“The cure is a true love’s kiss, isn’t it?” Wei Wuxian asked in a whisper.

“Your damn true love is going to arrive tonight or tomorrow,” Jiang Cheng retorted in a voice that failed to be anything but pleading. “Wait for him instead of playing games.”

“If I wait for him, I’ll never be sure about you,” came the answer, before Wei Wuxian pressed their lips together.

Jiang Cheng, at first, merely allowed it to happen, unsure what to do with his hands, with his mouth even. Wei Wuxian appeared to understand and, without breaking the kiss, placed Jiang Cheng’s hands on his hips while also moving his lips in a gentle manner, as if trying to show him what to do.

When they parted, Wei Wuxian’s cheeks were flushed and his eyes shining with emotion. Then, slowly, his lips parted into the most obnoxious grin in the world, one that Jiang Cheng hadn’t seen once in those last few days.

“Jiang Cheng!” Wei Wuxian laughed, his voice just as annoying as ever. “Jiang Cheng, who knew!”

“Shut up! Get off my lap now that you’re cured!”

Wei Wuxian laughed again, sounding like a demented wolf, and Jiang Cheng hated how much he had missed that.

“Jiang Cheng, don’t pretend, I know you care, you can’t hide it anymore!”

“Who’d care for an asshole like you!” Jiang Cheng exploded, trying again to push away the other man, only for Wei Wuxian to laugh and press another quick kiss to his lips.

“Look at you, all embarrassed! Jiang Cheng, you’re an idiot, you know.”

“I’ll murder you!”

“Been there, done that,” Wei Wuxian retorted with another kiss. “Now listen. The cure was true love’s kiss, not ‘somewhat unrequited long lasting crush kiss’, alright?”

Jiang Cheng stopped fighting instantly, thus giving Wei Wuxian the chance to kiss him again, a little longer this time. Without any input from his brain, Jiang Cheng’s hands found their way to the other man’s hips, this time pulling him closer.

“What about your Hanguang-Jun then?” Jiang Cheng breathlessly asked when they parted. “Does that mean he’s…”

“I’m a very spoiled man,” Wei Wuxian said. “I can have two true loves, to make up for the fact that they’re both absolute bitches.”

The idea of sharing Wei Wuxian, now that Jiang Cheng knew he could have him, was particularly unpleasant. The only thing that would make it bearable, Jiang Cheng decided, was the certainty that Lan Wangji would be appalled that they had anything in common.

Happy with this petty thought, Jiang Cheng kissed Wei Wuxian again.

[chalkrevelations]

Wait wait wait.

People are arguing that the guy whose go-to move is literally looking you in the face and saying, "I can kill whoever I want, because who's gonna stop me?" is the more socially apt of this pair?

once again, instead of being a bitch on someone else's post, i'll keep my thoughts on my own blog.

i've seen people contrast yunmeng shuangjie by arguing that, while wei wuxian comes across as a rebel and jiang cheng comes across as highly mindful of social norms, in reality their social abilities are the opposite: that, in reality, it is wei wuxian who is socially apt and jiang cheng who is socially incapable.

for some fans, this then translates into political ability. these fans argue that it is wei wuxian and not jiang cheng who is capable of making connections.

come on now. this makes no sense. in fact, i'd go as far as to say that the story of MDZS as it is written is only possible if jiang cheng is actually better at making long-term connections - political connections - than wei wuxian.

certainly, wei wuxian is more personable and fun to interact with than jiang cheng; certainly, if everyone was a kid on a school playground, then most of the other kids would probably prefer to play with wei wuxian over jiang cheng. and yet, the world of MDZS is a bit more complicated than a school playground. wei wuxian might be more friendly and social than jiang cheng, but in no way does this translate to actual political ability.

it is true that wei wuxian most likely made a large number of friends at the cloud recesses lectures (such as one nie huaisang), before he was expelled for punching jin zixuan. one might then want to call these friendships future political connections. based on this, one might then expect that, after leaving yunmeng jiang to protect the wen remnants, wei wuxian would have some connections to cash in on.

and yet, this did not happen. where were these supposed "connections" when wei wuxian left yunmeng jiang to defend the wen remnants? where were these "connections" when wei wuxian was living in the burial mounds with no one but a bunch of escaped POWs, all for the sake of what was just? and where were these supposed "connections" when the entire cultivation world showed up on wei wuxian's doorstep, calling for his head?

the whole point of the first chronological half of the story is that wei wuxian stood alone. when wei wuxian chose to do what was right over what was easy, he stood alone. when wei wuxian chose to protect the innocent, he did so alone. and when wei wuxian refused to give up on the wen remnants, severing his single strongest political tie in the process - he ended up standing alone against the rest of the cultivation world. no one came to save him. no one even came to stand by him. none of the connections he made before his downfall as the yiling patriarch - save for one, which only stepped up after he died once - actually ended up lasting.

therefore, one can only conclude that, for all his friendliness and inherent likability, wei wuxian actually isn't all that great at forming and maintaining useful political connections. no matter how much people might like him at first, for almost everyone, he's ultimately too politically inconvenient to stand up for.

(funnily enough, the fact that almost all of wei wuxian's connections save a handful were fair-weather friends is highlighted by wei wuxian himself, in the following exchange during the second siege:

One of the cultivators standing at the forefront of the formation said, with bitter grief, “Wei Ying, you truly disappoint me. To think I used to admire and look up to you! I even said that, if nothing else, you were a founder, someone who established the first generation of your own sect. It’s almost nauseating, in retrospect. From now on, you and I stand in opposition!” Wei Wuxian was taken aback by this speech at first but then burst into hysterical laughter. “Ha ha ha ha….” He laughed so hard he could barely breathe. “You admired me? You say that, but why did I never see you, back when you admired me? And when everyone began to bay for my blood, you popped up waving your little flag to cheer in support!”

MDZS Seven Seas translation, Book 4, Chapter 18: Night Flight)

meanwhile, the plot of MDZS is fully impossible if jiang cheng is bad at making political connections. first, consider what happened right after the massacre of lotus pier: the golden core transfer happened, wei wuxian was thrown into the burial mounds, and then three months later jiang cheng and lan wangji found him again. by that point, jiang cheng had already called enough new disciples to his banner that yunmeng jiang was considered a contributor to the sunshot campaign. given that jiang cheng had literally no one by his side after the fall of lotus pier save jiang yanli, it is highly unlikely that jiang cheng would have been able to recruit this many new disciples if he had no interpersonal skills.

(one could potentially make the case that jiang yanli recruited the new disciples, but i find this difficult to believe. people in this time period would assess the strength of a political organization - one asking them to do something as dangerous as go to war for them - by the quality of that organization's leader. not by the quality of the leader's sister who would have inevitably married out of the organization. sucks to suck but that was how things worked back then.)

furthermore, jiang cheng rebuilt lotus pier. jiang cheng rebuilt lotus pier from literally nothing. some jc antis like to argue that wei wuxian contributed more to the rebuilding of lotus pier than jiang cheng, but this is absurd: wei wuxian was only around during the postwar period for 1-2 years at most before he left for the wen remnants, and a few years after that he was dead. after wei wuxian's defection, and then in the 13-year time period between wei wuxian's death and his resurrection, who was left in lotus pier? was in charge of lotus pier? who was running lotus pier so efficiently that, by the time of wei wuxian's resurrection, yunmeng jiang had gone from what wang lingjiao called a joke to one of the strongest sects in the jianghu?

of course - none other than jiang cheng.

this level of political rebuilding, for an organization that was literally decimated less than 20 years ago, is only possible if the leader of said organization is highly politically capable. during the 13 year timeskip, jiang cheng as yunmeng jiang's leader would have had to deal with rival sect leaders, make alliances with other sects, strike deals with other sects, and keep a constant awareness of the political landscape. all of this is only possible if jiang cheng is capable of making useful political connections. frankly, i think fans are putting too much emphasis on jiang cheng's surface-level mannerisms (which he also is only showing because wei wuxian is around, lbr), and too little focus on simple logic. if jiang cheng did not have the ability to make political connections, then yunmeng jiang would have collapsed.

it's easy to read MDZS and conclude, based on a surface-level analysis, that wei wuxian is better at making connections than jiang cheng. yet this take is at best shallow and at worst actively misses all the main points of the novel. for all his charisma, sociability, and wittiness, wei wuxian is actually not that socially apt - if he were, he and the wen remnants would not have died. and - for all of his snappishness, grumpiness, and irritability - jiang cheng is actually not a social klutz - if he were, yunmeng jiang would not have survived to see wei wuxian's resurrection.

the socially-apt underdog you're thinking of is jin guangyao.

(also, as an aside: nie huaisang did not mastermind wei wuxian's resurrection because he was, secretly all along, wei wuxian's ~great friend~ who was just so sad and disappointed about what happened to poor wei-xiong. it's a nice bit of fanon, but that's not what happened. nie huaisang masterminded wei wuxian's resurrection - 13 years after wei wuxian's death, i might add - because of wei wuxian's expertise. he needed someone with wei wuxian's specific expertise to both solve the nie mingjue dismembered corpse problem and to get revenge for him on jin guangyao. i don't know where bleeding heart huaisang came from, but it certainly wasn't canon.)

[robininthelabyrinth]

This one's gonna take two asks, I'm incapable of making it more succinct. In Accurate description NHS said "I’m taking you back with me to the Nie sect when all this is over. If your parents want you back, they can come ask nicely.” Could we get that AU? And the Jiangs HAVE to ask nicely, because with the war on the horizon they can't risk alienating the Nies, but they are so bad at it? NHS's half assed plan to poach JC gets more and more solid the longer he has to watch this train wreck.(1/2)

How hard can it be to love your own flesh and blood? Even NMJ has stopped admonishing him for wanting to poach another sect's heir. What a political nightmare that would be. But JC is so relaxed with NHS's birds? And keeping up longer and longer when training with da-ge? And smiling more? And JYL said, she's never seen him so loose in the shoulders? NHS can make this work. JFM and YZY never valued JC anyway 

Part 2 of Accurate Description (necessary to read that first)

-

“Absolutely not,” was the first thing Nie Huaisang’s brother said when Nie Huaisang first raised the idea of kidnapping Jiang Cheng for his own good. “Absolutely fucking not.”

“Nie sect principle three,” Nie Huaisang said.

“Well, shit,” his brother said.

This was because Nie Huaisang’s brother is the best.

“I’ve gotten other people involved in this,” Nie Huaisang added helpfully.

“You’d better have,” his brother said. “I am not dealing with the fallout from this on my own.”

Nie Huaisang nodded happily. That was about what he’d expected.

A few moments later, his brother asked, “Why are we kidnapping him, anyway?”

-

“This is temporary,” Nie Mingjue said gruffly.

“Very temporary,” Jiang Cheng agreed, sounding stiff and awkward. “I don’t even know why I’m here.”

“You know exactly why you’re here,” Nie Huaisang objected. “I told you why!”

Jiang Cheng gave him a dirty look.

“Also I have no idea how da-ge got you here, but you’re staying,” Nie Huaisang said firmly. “For as long as it takes for your parents to show that they deserve you returning to them. You’re not getting a choice.”

Jiang Cheng’s face was turning red.

“That’s not the deal, Huaisang,” Nie Mingjue interjected. “Jiang Wanyin can return home at any time he wishes.”

Nie Huaisang glared, but his brother ignored him.

“He can also stay as long as he wishes,” he said, and this time it was Jiang Cheng’s turn to stare. “If you want others to respect him, you must first pay him the respect he deserves yourself. Now, I have to go, but Jiang Wanyin – know that our home is always open to you.”

He put a hand on his shoulder and squeezed it, then ruffled Nie Huaisang’s hair, and left.

Jiang Cheng looked dazed.

Nie Huaisang smirked.

“…you said something about him giving out hugs?”

“Oh yeah,” Nie Huaisang said. “Great hugs.”

-

“I can’t believe you would betray me like this,” Nie Huaisang whined. “And after all I’ve done for you!”

“A little training’s not going to kill you,” Jiang Cheng said. “Come on already.”

“My brother put you up to this, didn’t he? You sold me out for a hug.”

“I sold you out for the opportunity to go on a proper night-hunt,” Jiang Cheng said. “Also, he said he was proud of the progress I’ve been making on my cultivation and sword training since I got here. And gave me a hug.”

Nie Huaisang grumbled but conceded that his brother was especially difficult to resist when he was in full big brother mode. If he wasn’t, Nie Huaisang wouldn’t have been nearly so willing to give up the neat new sword he’d found in the Xuanwu’s cave and store it down in their saber halls until his brother and Baxia could figure out how to suppress it - he hadn’t even realized it was full of resentful energy at first, and he still thought it was especially aesthetic.

“Besides, if you don’t practice something soon, he’ll come after you himself,” Jiang Cheng said. “Wouldn’t you rather train with me?”

“No. You’re just as crazy as he is.”

Jiang Cheng looked disturbingly complimented.

“I’ll come look at your birds later,” he offered.

“You’d do that anyway,” Nie Huaisang said. “You love my birds.”

Jiang Cheng did, too. Nearly as much as he loved all the feral cats that roamed the walls of the Unclean Realm, every single one of which seemed to have immediately pegged him as a soft touch and come nosing around for treats – Nie Huaisang had never seen Jiang Cheng look so calm and peaceful as when he had a cat under his palm.

It really put into perspective how stressed he looked the rest of the time.

“Oh, all right,” he groaned, and Jiang Cheng beamed. “Just know that I hate you.”

“Same to you, Nie-gongzi,” Jiang Cheng said, completely insincere. “Same to you.”

-

“You know, I’m surprised my parents haven’t shown up to demand me back yet,” Jiang Cheng said over lunch one day. “It’s not – it’s not a problem. It’s only – I thought – Mother at least –”

“Oh, they’re demanding all right,” Nie Huaisang sniggered.

“…Nie Huaisang, what have you done,” Jiang Cheng said.

“Conspired, that’s what,” Nie Mingjue said. “I don’t know if I should thank you for discovering my brother’s sole talent, namely for scheming and conspiracies, or to blame you for it, Wanyin – but you do have very loyal friends.”

Jiang Cheng blinked.

“Well, first your parents went to Lanling,” Nie Huaisang explained. “On account of Jin Zixuan and Mianmian very obviously sneaking food around and buying all sorts of things that you would like before smuggling them – very poorly and obviously, mind you – into Jinlin Tower, and of course they were also overheard talking about something that sounded an awful lot like ‘Wanyin’; everyone assumed they were hiding you. Turns out they weren’t, of course; it was just a stray dog they’d named something with similar tones. Not their fault everyone got the wrong idea!”

Jiang Cheng’s eye twitched.

“And then, of course, they went to Gusu, on account of Lan Wangji telling everyone you were his sworn brother –”

“His what?!”

“Well, close enough. On account of how you saved his life.”

“I did not!”

“I thought I heard something about how you carried him on your back as you fled from the Xuanwu’s cave and the Wen sect’s ambushes, when he was exhausted and could not walk,” Nie Mingjue said mildly, and Jiang Cheng spluttered. “Had I heard wrongly?”

“…well, no…but...”

“Of course, you weren’t at Gusu,” Nie Huaisang continued, ignoring them both. “Though there were some heavy implications for a little while that you’d gone off with Lan-gongzi –”

“Isn’t he missing?”

Nie Mingjue coughed and looked down at his plate.

“And none of you said anything?” Jiang Cheng asked, looking between them. “At any point? Did you just, what, not talk to them?”

“I have spoken with your parents several times since they have started looking for you,” Nie Mingjue said, and his voice was suddenly hot with roiling anger. “I have concluded that Huaisang had a point regarding the necessity of their learning how to ask for your return.”

Jiang Cheng blinked.

“Your parents are jerks,” Nie Huaisang volunteered. “And you deserve better.”

“Yes, thank you,” Jiang Cheng said, a little strangled. “I think I – got that.”

“Good.”

-

“It’s just, my jiejie –”

“Supports you being here. She sent you a care package. It’s in your room.”

“…Wei Wuxian –”

“Sent a note along with the package. Says to keep up the good work.”

“How did you even get something like that?!”

“I have my ways.”

-

Nie Huaisang was staring blankly at the wall when Jiang Cheng walked in and did a double take.

“Okay,” he said to Nie Mingjue, sitting patiently nearby with a letter in his hands. “You broke him. How?”

“He just discovered that he inadvertently saved a great deal of lives,” Nie Mingjue said. “As did you, by agreeing to come here.”

“I only agreed to come here because you lied and told me it was necessary to help defend my sect,” Jiang Cheng grumbled, clearly not meaning it.

Nie Huaisang let out a high-pitched and somewhat hysterical giggle.

“It was,” Nie MIngjue said solemnly, offering him the letter. “It appears that Wen Chao was given permission to attack and crush the Jiang sect, but has been delaying in anticipation of your return on account of wanting to deal with all of you at once. The delay allowed our spies time to discover his plans, and to carry warnings to your parents. They were thus able to fortify the Lotus Pier’s defenses against invasion, and to hold it off until aid could arrive – which they wouldn’t have managed if he’d attacked at once, as he would have if you’d been there.”

Jiang Cheng stared.

“Would you like to sit down and stare at the wall?” Nie Mingjue offered kindly.

“…yes please.”

-

“How’d you convince him to let me come here, anyway?” Jiang Cheng asked Nie Huaisang as he packed up his things. He was finally heading back to the Lotus Pier, albeit only long enough to collect soldiers and come back to join what they’d started calling the Sunshot Campaign – his parents had finally figured out where he was and sent word that had, in the view of the Nie, just barely qualified as sufficient to get some leeway.

Lan Wangji was waiting in the hallway to escort him there, and he’d sworn to Nie Huaisang that he would not allow either of Jiang Cheng’s parents to say anything untoward while they were there. He’d looked very serious while he said it, too, which pleased Nie Huaisang to no end and made Jiang Cheng look more than a bit nervous.

“You’re only asking that now?” Nie Huaisang asked, amused.

Jiang Cheng shrugged. “You going to tell me or not?”

“It was easy,” he said. “I just invoked Nie sect principle three.”

“…what’s that?”

“‘A fire burns all the same’,” Nie Huaisang said. “Variously interpreted as: ‘Treat your neighbor’s harm as your own’, ‘Do not stand idly by as your neighbor bleeds’, or ‘Indifference to evil is equivalent to evil’.”

Jiang Cheng stared.

“How about ‘if you see someone who needs you, you have an obligation to act’?”

Jiang Cheng blinked. “Okay,” he said. “And?”

“And what?”

“And what else did you say? You convinced him to literally kidnap the heir of another Great Sect; I can’t believe that you accomplished that simply by saying ‘hey principle three applies here, let’s do this’.”

“Maybe I did,” Nie Huaisang sniffed.

Jiang Cheng rolled his eyes. “Fine, keep your secrets. I’ll get them out of you one day.”

“Maybe you will,” Nie Huaisang said.

-

“Da-ge,” Nie Huaisang said. “If I wanted to keep Jiang Cheng permanently, what principle would I have to invoke for that?”

“Nineteen.”

“Nineteen?” Nie Huaisang frowned. “But, da-ge, principle nineteen is the one about marriage – oooooooh.”

[lansplaining]

also jin ling !!

my son <3

WAIT TO HECK WITH IT i'm cheating slightly so i can get a BINGO FOR MY SON

they're so cool looking: i really dislike the weird shelf bangs of the manhua and donghua but i love his silly hair bling in CQL and he has some very good looks despite being saddled with one of the more difficult color schemes. also, a dog is the best accessory

they're deeper than they seem: i mean really it's that he's deeper than even he realizes that he is. the lines!! where he can't understand why he can't hold grudges and can't hate the people who hurt him the way he's supposed to!! jin ling my beloved!!!

(free space, ilu jin ling)

they work better as part of a dynamic: this is where i'm cheating, because i actually think jin ling's isolation is part of what makes him so compelling BUT. his dynamic with jiang cheng is completely iconic and perfect, and i love the collective vibes of the juniors more than anything. so he is certainly involved in some of the best dynamics in the whole story.

they've never done anything wrong in their life: objectively true <3