#reylo was also a huge yikes

[thevoidremembers]

Looking back on it Finn really should have been the protagonist in the Star Wars sequel trilogy

[eirenical]

SALT ME WITH 4, 19, 22, 23

YAY, BRING ON THE SALT.  XD

[If anyone else wants to ask me salty asks, go right ahead! ^_^]

4. Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP?*

…I do.  And yes, they are.  -.-;;;  You know what?  I think we’re going to go behind a cut for all this.  XD

So, the big one is Jehanparnasse.  They are a HUGE NoTP for me, and these days, yeah, they’re pretty popular.  I just… don’t see the appeal.  A lot of it is that I think Jehan deserves way better, and even more of it is that I feel like he would not be able to overlook the whole cold-blooded, shallow murderer thing.  They’re each the exact representation of what the other does NOT stand for.  And not in an opposites attract kind of way.  Also, in order to make that ship work, they have to be so OOC that I just don’t see the point.  So… yeah.  Just… no.

Also, Enjolras/Grantaire are definitely at that point for me, too, and they’re the largest ship in the fandom.  And again, it’s a case of very rarely seeing them shipped without one or both of them being wildly out of character.  (And I have definitely done this, too, so my slate is definitely not clean.)  But, yeah, I have a knee-jerk NOPE reaction to them at this point, except in very specific circumstances.

In SW terms, I’m going to go with Reylo being my absolute HELL NOPE ship.  That is definitely a squicky situation for me.  Also because at this point, I’m still not seeing much redeemable about KR.  I’m a ship and let ship kind of girl, but that one is a solid nope for me personally.

19. What is the one thing you hate most about your fandom?

LM: …nonbinary Jehan.  OK, lemme explain that.  I have NOTHING against incorporating nonbinary headcanons of characters.  NOTHING.  I just… it being Jehan is SUCH A TOKEN THING AT THIS POINT.  It’s just that it literally feels like people are just switching the pronoun to ‘they’ so they can check the box.

I also have a REAL problem with the fact that we took one of the two most femme-coded men of Les Amis, the one who is soft-spoken, loves flowers and looking at clouds, writes poetry, and “dresses badly,” and said, “YEP.  THAT’S THE ONE THAT’S NOT A MAN.”  I’m sorry but… yikes.

You know what I love seeing?  NB!Bahorel.  (Seriously, you will pry that headcanon from my COLD DEAD FINGERS.)  NB!Feuilly.  NB!Enjolras.  NB!ANYONE WHO ISN’T JEHAN.

SW: The hate for the prequels.  Especially when it’s revisionist hate.  Like… I’m sure you remember but when the prequels came out, we were SO EXCITED.  So many people loved them.  The fandom explosion was HUGE.  And now people go back and say, “Well, everyone always hated them.”  No.  No, we didn’t.  And we don’t.  And I will hold them up against ANY of the other trilogies and tell you that they are JUST as awesome ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Corollary to that: the ragging on the prequels for CGI.  Like… do people have any idea exactly how FEW of the prequel effects were done with CGI?  I mean… very VERY few.  The stands in the podrace?  LITERALLY PAINTED MATCHSTICKS IN A SCALE MODEL.  And so many of the backgrounds were painted, not CGI.  So, like… every time I see someone saying how much the prequels sucked and how much they were always hated and they claim the overuse of CGI as a supporting argument?  FUCK YOU, BUDDY.

Corollary two: How fans treated Ahmed Best.  Like, literally?  Fuck all y’all that had anything to do with making someone feel like that.  And Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen while we’re at it, but particularly Ahmed Best.

So.  Yeah.  Those things.  *nodnodnod*

22. Popular character you hate?

Got this one here.

23. Unpopular character you love?

SO FUCKING MANY I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START.

LM: FEUILLY.  FEUILLY FEUILLY FEUILLY.  I mean, it’s not like people hate him.  They don’t.  He just… often gets forgotten.  And when he isn’t, it’s often a case of character bastardization.  The whole “lower/working class = rude, uncouth, swearing up a storm, brawling, smoking cigarettes” stereotype.  Like… NO.  Fortunately that stereotype seems to have mostly died down, but it still rears its ugly head in places.

Also, Joly and Bossuet.  I love them to BITS and they also seem to get left by the wayside sometimes.

It’s not that any of the three of them are UNpopular, though.  They’re just… not AS popular as some other characters.

SW: Again, I don’t think any of the characters I like are straight up unpopular?  Just less popular than some other characters.  And even then, it depends on the fandom circle you’re running in.  Like, I have a HUGE soft spot for Bail and Breha Organa.  (And Jango Fett.  ^_~)  But they don’t really seem to always catch the fandom eye.

[bardqueenofgallifrey]

listen I don't wanna get in an argument or anything I just wanna say that you can dislike reylo all you like, no one's saying you have to like it, but when you reblog posts about it being bad cos it's abusive etc. it comes off like you're being slightly hypocritical - you've talked about liking spuffy in the past, and of course twissy. they're equally as fucked up as reylo, if not moreso. again you don't have to like reylo but why guilt people about it given your own tastes?

like I really wanna stress that this isn't hate or anything, I'm just genuinely wondering why you want to shame this one particular ship when it's clear you like some problematic ships of your own, and I'm sure you wouldn't want to have people blogging about how nasty they are all the time. it's your blog obviously, and you can totally do what you like with it, I'm just ... why shame these particular shippers?

No, I mean, it’s a good point to make, so I’m glad you brought this up. 

For me, it’s about how the ships are presented. 

Best Enemies is obviously fucked up, they’re presented more as enemies and the romantic reading of it is more on the fan side than the canon side - their strong friendship is canon, and the romantic hints are there, but more in a wink wink nudge nudge sort of fashion. I would not say they’re painted as a romantic ship very much at all, much less any kind of romantic ideal. 

Spuffy is a bit trickier. It’s very much painted as unhealthy when it starts out - Spike becomes creepily obsessed with her and has obviously done a load of terrible shit (although I think some people forget that Spike, for a long while, doesn’t have a soul, and should really be being judged alongside Angelus as opposed to Angel, you know? I’ve always thought that the fact that soulless Spike was capable of any kind of empathy at all, let alone the rather large amount we see in him alongside his more evil and selfish traits, has rather huge implications about how theoretically good the real Spike is, but that’s a whole different discussion). Buffy also uses him in a multitude of ways, and it’s a general mess, but it’s portrayed as such! And when Spike crosses that line, and tries that really bad thing, it’s shown as fucking serious and it sends him off to atone. And he does atone, but away from her. He goes away and tries to better himself so that he might deserve her, but ironically once possessing his soul, stops trying to push himself on her because obviously now he sees that isn’t remotely okay. And his love, by that point, is incredibly unselfish and very much without any kind of expectation. So I’ve always seen Spuffy as starting off as incredibly unhealthy, and actually being a very rare case of convincingly becoming something passably healthy, if still a bit complex. 

Now, of course, theoretically Reylo could go a similar path. But the difference is how the fandom and canon treat it. It’s the textbook “trash dude meets the heroine and tries to get her on his side and she’s adamantly against it and people read that as romantic potential and that this girl can fix him”. It crops up in loads of places, and I suffered several seasons of Captain Swan in OUAT following this nonsense as well, and also the Bellamy and Clarke shippers in the 100. In these cases, it’s not usually being presented as a problematic ship, in the way that Twissy and Spuffy are self aware. It’s presented as grand and sweeping and romantic when it shouldn’t be, or just isn’t. 

The whole “tortured bad boy gets fixed by the golden heroine” thing is just... yikes. (I know Spuffy comes close, but Spike ultimately fixes himself.)

That’s not to say that they can’t work when the writing is good, I’ve just rarely found it to be the case. (Adrian and Sydney, from the Bloodlines book series, are a good example of it working, even though Adrian isn’t quite a bad boy, and only has one particularly bad action in his past of any significance, and again, it’s an instance of him bettering himself because he sees it’s the right thing to do, though it is partly because he finally has somebody who believes he might actually succeed.) 

Obviously this is all fairly fine line stuff, and entirely my own perspective, but that’s basically how I hold the disdain for Reylo that I do while shipping other questionable ships. I hope it makes sense? Maybe I am hypocritical, a bit, but the distinction exists to me, and makes sense to me, even if maybe it doesn’t to anyone else. 

Like, if the series had been written completely differently, maybe Reylo could have worked. Just like how maybe Captain Swan could have worked if they hadn’t done what I consider to be the worst written/most forced romantic dynamic between main characters I’ve seen in a TV show. But as it is, with people reading scenes of interrogation and torture as sexual tension or romance? No thanks. 

[thatcharmingjerk]

I dont get why (this week on problems of SJWs) kylux is supposedly so bad now?? Like reylo? A yikes. A huge yikes. Thats some wanking at abusive, rape, age-gap stuff and i easily see it as problematic yes. Kinda same with shipping Rey with Poe, i mean he old.... and also poe/kylo???? Shitnugget TORTURED the dude and thats all their interaction (might as well ship han and vader lol) But ye kylux, its two fictive garbage horrible men being horrible together?? Not to be edgy(tm) just sake of some hate-fucking and kinky times (AUs are their own matter ofc) Also i think lotsa people could just CHILL and take a step back to think is it really their only option for saving the world to moralize SHIPS? Fictive scenarios w/ fictive character that op have for fun?? Just dont glorify abusing and dont hurt anyone with yo shit and youll be fine.