#so do Jude and Maddoc

[lunchtimebedamned1997]

Hazbin S2 thoughts?

Okay, hear me out:

I love Poly!Vees, but if it ends up being just Vox/Val being fuckbuddies with Vel not in the romantic or sexual mix - particularly if Velvette is more of a daughter to Vox and Val... then that could set up a super interesting dynamic in S2 with the other half of the cast???

So in 1x05 we get Al (presumably just postulating) about how he sees Charlie like a daughter (heh, yeah right. Al? After like, four or five months? No way. With Nifty? Sure, I can almost buy it. Charlie? No.)

So, like, imagine this:

Charlie steps between the two overlords, hair mussed from the warring static, scleras dipping red as they fix on Vox.

"Stop." Her arms are out, Vox almost laughs when he realizes she's shielding Alastor. "I won't let you hurt him."

Alastor's expression is somewhere between smug and affronted. Vox can understand, having someone as powerful as the princess devoted to your safety is quite the bragging point, but to have anyone think that Alastor would need help, against him, no less. No, no. That stroked Vox's ego. He did laugh now.

"Alright, princess, I'll bite. How'd he win you over?"

"What?"

"Alastor. How'd he convince you, you matter to him? I can tell you how he convinced me, if you'd like."

"Charlie - I would strongly advise not engaging with this one. Once you get him started, its quite hard to shut him up again. Not to mention, most of what comes out of his speakers is meaningless drivel."

Vox scoffed.

"What are you, her fucking dad?" He watches the princess puff up her chest, eyes sparking with something that could really only be noted as passion.

"Yes." She looked back over her shoulder at Al, and Vox caught the softness in her growing smile as her head turned away from him. "He's as good as." When Vox processed the genuine tone in her voice, he started uproariously, uncontrollably laughing, she returned her gaze sharply to him. "You don't know him like I do. Like we all do! He's helped us, maybe not out of the goodness of his heart at first, but time means something, and we've built a bond! He's shown up for me in ways people who should have, haven't."

"Oh my god you're serious!" A few more laughs escaped him before the righteousness and earnestness of her expression processed in his system. Oh my god. She's serious. He felt his expression sober, and he dropped his aggressive stance, keeping a few of the cameras trained on Alastor so he could keep his screen directed at the girl, and he watched her tense at the serious drop to his expression. "Look, I don't know what you think he's done for you, but I learned the hard way how little he cares. I'll admit, your little theory has more of a shot than the things I used to think were between us, but I wouldn't count your chickens, Charlie." Her mouth pulled into a flatter line as her name left his speakers. "I know what it means to care for someone like a daughter. And I don't think he has that in him."

"You -" When Charlie's words faultered, Vox cut in.

"Alastor can manage - what did you call it Al?" He spared a glance over Charlie's shoulder. "'Passing affections?'" He choked down the sneer he wanted to give Alastor and returned his gaze to Charlie. "I think he's too selfish to love anything but himself. I think he can enjoy people for what they give him, but don't be sweet-talked into thinking he has enough room in his heart to be anything like a fath-" A black tentacle shot up from the pavement, hitting the base of Vox's screen and throwing him up into the air and back a few feet before he crashed back down onto the ground.

Alastor stepped up beside the princess, putting a hand on her shoulder and bending down slightly, his tone light, like he was sharing a bit of innocent gossip.

"What did I tell you, my dear? This one doesn't quite know how to summarize a thought." He looked over a Vox, who was pulling himself back up into a standing position, his screen still glitching mildly from the force of the impact, he could feel wetness dripping down from the corner of his mouth. "Shall I summarize for you then, old friend?" He moved out and around Charlie, removing some of the newfound space between himself and Vox. "Something, something, I'm a terrible monster who cannot be trusted, i hurt your feelings, nobody should risk being near me, and you... 'hate' me?" He leaned forward slightly, smiling as he tilted his head to the side - that stupid fucking smile widening even further as he send another tentacle barreling into Vox's stomach like a punch, Charlie squeaked somewhere in the background like she wasn't expecting them to come to blows again already. Vox was just pleased he was only winded rather than thrown this time though. "Did I about cover it?"

Vox breathed raggedly, trying to get his lungs to work right. "You're a fucking prick."

"Poetry!"

"Get a new fucking line."

Alastor narrowed his eyes slightly. "I am curious about this 'daughter figure' of yours? That spunky little overlord nobody worth their salt can stand? The one with the fabric name? Velvette, was it?"

Sparks flicked from Vox's claws. "Don't."

"You expose a weakness and expect me not to strike? And here you are trying to convince Charlie how well you know me!"

"Velvette can handle herself."

"Against me? I hardly think so. So few can."

"Adam did alright." Vox watched the small twitch of displeasure Alastor gave at the bruise to his ego with a little bit of pleasure.

"You can't seriously think their levels are comparable. What exactly might she do? Wrap me in silks? Oh the horror. I have felled overlords so old only Zestial rivals them. And her? Has she even reached fourty? Thirty?" Alastor shook his head disappointedly. "No, I'm sure she'd be quite the waste of energy. Then again, I do so love to see you suffer."

Vox surged forward and blasted enough volts to level a city block straight into Alastor's neck, watching him fly back to land behind the Princess' startled form.

"That, is mutual." Vox rolled his shoulders, getting ready for more... for maybe dying. You always had to be with Alastor. Part of him didn't want to believe they'd ever devolve quite that far, but the part of him that scrabbled around in his self preservation like a panicked animal had to face that eventually one of them was going to...

It was statistics, honestly. Even in eternity, nobody seemed to last forever.

...

Like???? Come ON. That doesn't even touch the Valentino side of things. Make the terrible people complicated! Give them weaknesses and things to like about them that makes hating them feel worse for us!

Idk something about the idea of Vox, the fucked up guy from the age of the 'nuclear' family having the most warped but genuine dynamic with Velvette and Val? It tickles me!

Like I can see Charlie trying to convince Al there's something worth redeeming in Vox if she actually stumbles across seeing him being a doting father to Vel, especially if it was before any interactions like the little senario I wrote above. You just know our little baby bleeding-heart with her big doe eyes and daddy issues would just feel for him. Wouldn't want him to lose even though she wants her side to win.

'how can i destroy what might be the only good family relationship I've seen in almost 200 years. If someone took that away from me -'

You just know that Vox would be the most indulgent little guy ever when he loves someone.

Now, do I think Charlie actually bought Al saying all those things to her in 1x05? Not entirely. Not given how she spoke to him in 1x07 before they made their deal. I think Charlie is a lot less naive then people assume her to be, but I also think she'd want to believe it. Maybe with a bit less desperation then before she made up with Luci somewhat. Regardless, it's clear she has a big soft spot for Al, and considers him to be like family much the same as the others from the S1 hotel crew.

Idk, I just think there's a lot of potential there! Do I think it will go that route? Heh - no. Probably not. But It's fun to think about :3

[maingh0st]

What pissed me off is that people bring up Taryn second betrayal as Taryn being this mastermind manipulator and they never mentioned how Maddoc was actually the one manipulating her. Like she’s genuinely thought she was found the right thing! Because neither Jude and Taryn were communicating to each other. It’s so frustrating!!! From my point of view I think Taryn did a way to help her sister and gain her trust back because she thought she was being manipulated by Cardan. I was so mad at Jude because I was like omg tell your sister what’s going on!!!

sorry this is a few days late - but I think you raise a great point here! Taryn's motivations (re: deceiving Cardan for Madoc) are opaque and ultimately up to our interpretation—unless I'm forgetting something, the only explicit clue we get in the text is when she tells Jude "I didn't think it mattered. You had all that power and you wouldn't use it. But I never wanted to hurt you." pretty slim insight, all things considered

your interpretation of Taryn thinking Jude's being manipulated by Cardan is interesting—I don't know if I fully ascribe to it, but it's certainly somewhat plausible, especially considering Taryn's own experience being manipulated by Locke.

aside from various personal interpretations, though, what we do know for sure are the following points: (1) after Vivi & Oak leave for the mortal world and Jude becomes seneschal, Taryn is alone with Madoc and Oriana before her marriage, (2) after marrying Locke, Taryn is miserable trying to keep up with him/keep his interest, (3) Taryn's insights from the lost sisters include the fact that she's aware she's not Madoc's favorite daughter, as well as her fear of being left behind by Jude, and (4) the sheer level of miscommunication between Jude & Taryn is absurd (more on this below). from these points and others, I think we start to get a clear picture of a Taryn who is vulnerable, lonely, trying to maintain the few relationships she has left, and ignorant to the full scope of her actions. Madoc capitalizes on her ignorance, her fear of opposing him, and her desire for approval when he sends her to deceive Cardan. so as you said: certainly not a one-dimensional mastermind manipulator

and as a final note: holly uses miscommunication in a way that's very believable but still frustrating as a reader, and I think it's important to remember that Taryn literally isn't clued into everything going on with Jude until after she watches Jude almost die in tQoN. in my opinion, it says a lot in Taryn's favor that once she's filled in, she's ride or die in support of Jude