#socionics vs mbti

[lemonthepotato]

Muffins Ennea ADDENDUM:

I wasn’t planning on making a follow-up to that post, but mama/dada’s got some ideas cooking. Mama? Dada? What’s the non-binary version of mama? Nvm, it would sound cringe. I think I’d rather misgender myself than call myself a ‘zaza’ lmao. 😭

Anyway, that post was kinda dogshit. I mean, I stand by a lot of what I said, but I also don’t. So, this is my full personality profile of the bakers!

So, let’s go over the conclusions I made last time:

Pinkie Pie: Enneagram 7w6 with a SP instinct.

Inkie Pie: Enneagram 8w7 with a SX instinct?

Minkie Pie: Enneagram 4w5 with a SO instinct.

Blinkie Pie: Enneagram 4wX with a SX instinct.

Apple Bloom: “IT GOT ERASED AGAIN. APPLE BLOOM SO3.”

Derpy: “DERPY SX7/IDK FUCKING SP6 IDC.”

Babs: “BABS IDFK SP5?? SO5?? FUCKING SP8 dawg I’m too angry to care.”

I don’t agree with all of these anymore, but I stand by the fact Minkie and Pinkie are probably enneagram 4 and 7. I’m not entirely sure of Minkie’s instinct.

In this post, I am going to be breaking down EVERY piece of EVERY characters typology. Maybe I’ll even go into the victims typology in the story? Prolly not.

Minkie Pie 🥧

MBTI: ISFP

After some consideration, I decided Minkie Pie is probably an INFP. And it seemed the consensus on PDB was much the same, which made me immediately reconsider. Just kidding. So, my reasoning is that she is an obvious Fi dom. There’s little question there. Genuinely not understanding how someone thought she was a Fe aux. But the question remains about Ne vs Se.

Minkie has a lot of creative, but practical ideas. And I wouldn’t say she has more ideas than she can execute, nor is she stuck ‘in her imagination.’ So, I can definitely see a Se argument. However, she dwells on the past a lot, which is why FiSi makes more sense than FiNi. In her LARS, I mean, Mad Madusings, she constantly compares her past to the present. She does this to prove some sort of overarching idea, which could be FiNi, but hmmm… her ability to “just know lies” is also very FiNi. I’m torn. Actually, I think I’m going to go with IXFP. She’s clearly a Xe aux. Kidding. INFP makes sense. But ISFP also makes sense especially when in her mad musings she always makes conclusions about people based on past experience to form some sort of archetype of person. Which is Ni…

Ni can look like Si, but Si is more routine based than Ni. I’m gonna go with ISFP for now.

Enneagram: 4w5 (so/sx/sp blind)

Enneagram so4w5 seems right, but I’m also open to sx4. Though, Minkie doesn’t particularly seem envious of others as like, an overarching trait. She just seems pissed at the world. I suppose that could be sx4. I’m a little torn.

Also holy shit, my Ne brain just realised The Game. Minkie’s life is like a video game, trying haurd to beat the stage.

Anyway, I don’t know tbh. Sx4 makes senseeee, but Sx4 is shameless. Minkie is not. Unhealthy so4, ig.

Tritype: 459.

Minkie is obviously a so4, but what about her tritype? Well, because I think she’s a 4w5, her head type is 5w6. Her gut type then, is probably 9w8. I don’t have much good reasoning.

Socionics: ESI

AHH. I hate socionics. I really do. Because I don’t understand it, so it’s bad. Jk. Uh, so, I don’t know. I’m going to go with uh ESI but I can also seen an argument for anything because idk lol.

Big Five: RLOEN.

I don’t like big5 much lol.

Psychosophy: No.

Okay, psychosophy is something I don’t understand.

Temperament: Melancholic.

Come on, it’s really obvious?

Classic Jungian: IF(S)

Pretty obvious.

Conclusion: ISFP IF(S) ESI RLOEN so4 w 5 459 melancholic [dominant].

Blinkie Pie 🥧

Blinkie SX4 is something I stand by. It makes the most sense for her character. She’s probably a sx4w3, as she’s focused on accomplishment and ‘authenticity.’ Her tritype is harder to crack down. She doesn’t seem like a very intellectually driven type, but she does value community ‘at least if we were all locked away, we’d have each other.’ Which is an argument for 6, however… I don’t know. Probably 468. Her MBTI… ah god. Okay, so, unlike that one Deviantart post, I am going to go out on a whim and say she’s probably not an ESTJ. Cognitively extroverted 4 is pretty weird. I’m completely unsure of her MBTI. She has values, but they’re influenced from her friends and father. But Fe anywhere in her stack is weird. ISTJ could work? In Inkie’s Stellar Obsession, she spends the whole time telling Inkie how ridiculous her idea is. Granted, it’s also because she doesn’t like Stella (Fi) but still. ISTJ 4 is uh… weird. So maybe ISFP? I know I’m switching stacks but ugh. I don’t know. Te-Fi is obvious. Si-Ne and Se-Ni I’m more confused about. Maybe Se? She’s very practical. ISFP is the best guess I can give. Then, that would be ESI again, right? She’s probably SCOEN. And yes, S makes sense because introvert =/= unsociable. And she’s not limbic, just because she’s mentally ill. She’s probably a choleric-melancholic?

Conclusion: ISFP IF(S) ESI RCOEN sx4 w 3 468 cholmel.

Inkie Pie 🥧

Enneagram: sx8w7

Inkie, a character I wasn’t sure about. I’m still not convinced she’s an 8. She could be a 9. But she doesn’t seem to struggle with self-inertia.

“Ah, Marblestone "Inkie" Pie... what a Sugarcube. Inkie is the second oldest of the four pie sisters, though she grew up as the oldest since Minkie had not been found yet. she is often very honest, but if you are not on her good side, her honesty is blunt and very insulting. she speaks in a firm, low voice, and is very confident. she seems very proud, holding her head up high and walking with a strut. she has heavy lidded eyes, and her smile can be quite intimidating and frightening, even when she tries to act casual. inkie is a natural born leader, and has been known to be the "protective" pony of the group, and makes a majority of decisions. sometimes she gets pissy when her decisions are shot down, but this never lasts long when it comes to her friends and sisters. Inkie has the ability to love as strong as her ability to hate. she often uses pet names toward her friends and sisters, such as "hunny," "sweety," "sweeatheart," "love," "dear," and many others. she'll address her sisters as "dear sister" when being reassuring toward them. since inkie and Blinkie are the sisters that have spent the most time together, they seem very in tune to each other, thinking along the same lines and coming to similar conclusions. I was originally going to give inkie pie hallucinations, but I decided against it. she's too in control of herself. [that’s not how hallucinations work but ok hunny]”

So, what we can learn from this is that Inkie is honest, blunt and confident. She’s proud, protective and a natural born leader. She makes the decisions for the group and doesn’t like her ideas being shut down, but she doesn’t care if it’s her sisters. Inkie has the ability to love just as much as she hates, which completely goes against the idea that she views other ponies aside from her sisters as toys and not something to love/hate but I digress.

In the actual story, Inkie displays these behaviours several times. This leads me to believe she could be an 8 or 9, but which?

Well, Inkie doesn’t value peace, come to think of it, so she’s likely an 8w9. I still say 8w9 > 8w7 because she’s much calmer than other wings. I view wings more as flavouring than having to match up 100%. So, I’m leaning 8w9. Actually, I think 8w7 makes more sense… she doesn’t have much 9 qualities.

So, what instinct? I still stand by sx/sp 8. So sx8 then.

Tritype: 874

We know her core type (gut) is 8, and I’d imagine she struggles the least with shame. So, we need to figure out her head type. She could be a 5, as she doesn’t seem to struggle with any of the anxiety 6’s do, but 7 is also likely. She’s an unconventional 7 if so, but still. She’s probably 874. But I can see 854. I should probably make my mind up though. Hmm… 874.

Besides, it doesn’t make much sense to have your wing not be your fix. It’s not impossible but me.

MBTI: ESFP

Okay, so, I’m going with Se-Ti here. You might be wondering why, but it’s actually very simple. When going into typing characters, I always assume they’re a sensor until proven otherwise. However, I don’t let myself get biased. I was sure Inkie would turn out to be an intuitive. However, re-reading, Inkie is actually very grounded in reality. She isn’t creative, more of a ‘technical thinker’ as she says and focuses on the present moment. She also makes decisions primarily based on what she wants, her own ‘values.’ Values don’t always have to be moral, and she’s a clear example of that. She values her sisters, but not other people, hence why she protects them but dismisses the other. I just can’t see Fe-Ti or Ne-Si.

Big five: SCUEN.

Might seem weird, but Inkie actually does tend towards the calm side of things. She goes into things with little plan when her sisters aren’t around, and egocentric is a no brainer. N is self explanatory; I is usually more of an experience seeker.

Temperament: Choleric-sanguine is the closest fit to her. You may argue phlegmatic but she does not try to serve others in the slightest lmao. She’s selfish.

Conclusion: ESFP sx8w7 874 SCUEN choleric.

Oh, fun fact, “yup! i like to think that there's something running in the family. pinkie is bipolar, inkie is scitzophrenic (sp?), and blinkie has bordeline personality disorder XD” Where do we get any idea of that in the story, through their behaviour? Nowhere.

Also, despite Inkie knowing her actions are wrong, and the others, Rei said this regarding Derpy: “she doesn't think it's wrong. none of them do. you gotta put yourself in the shoes of a sociopath; they each may have different reasons why they think the way they do, but when your brain works in this fashion, your view of the world is warped.”

Pinkie Pie:

Enneagram: sp7w8

Alright! Let’s go back to this! Reminder that I am ONLY talking about Muffins Pinkie Pie here, and not MLP Pinkie Pie, who is very different from Muffins Pinkie Pie. So, I don’t think my typing was wrong at all. But I’ve been considering 8 for Pinkie. However, I’m not sure if she’s 7w8 or 8w7. I think Pinkie starts off as a 7w8 but Reitanna randomly decides to make her a megalomaniac. So, it’s complicated.

8’s don’t like vulnerability, but Pinkie doesn’t care. In fact, she’ll use her vulnerability to manipulate Apple Bloom in Silence Is Silver. So, that rules 8 out.

That being said… well, we’ll cross tritype when we get there.

So, I stand by her being a sp7w8. You might think Pinkie is too pessimistic to be an 8, but she isn’t a pessimist. An edgelord, but not a pessimist. She only confronts her dark attitude in life when literally being sentenced to death.

Tritype: 782

I think Pinkie is a textbook 782, and I’ll explain why. I was inclined to say 728 but I think she struggles with shame the least. She is very aggressive in getting what she wants, but she also has a 2 fix because she views her baking as a give and take.

"You do not control lives, Pinkie Pie," Celestia growled lowly, feeling hatred toward the party pony. "And you have caused more sadness than you can even imagine..."

"Have I?" sneered Pinkie. "With all of the cupcakes and pastries I brought to parties? With all of the money I helped bring in when I started working at Sugarcube Corner so that the Cakes found financial stability? To the point where they were able to care for themselves and two brand new foals when they came along?" She suddenly stamped her hoof on the floor, making everypony jump once again. "I know for a fact that every single pony in this room consumed quite a large amount of my special pastries, including you, Princess Celestia, Princess Luna. And I can recall each and every one of your reactions after taking the first bite! You want to know what it was?" Her furious eyes scanned the room as she was met with no response. Then she chuckled lightly. "A smile."

She’s clearly just messing with Celestia, but there is some truth to what she is saying. She clearly views what she’s doing as “good” to a degree because other people like her gifts. 2’s struggle with pride, and because Pinkie thinks she’s helpful, she feels she is entitled to do what she wants. This is a light fix, but still there.

Pinkie Pie also has a need for her cupcakes to be THE BEST, leading me towards a 2w3 > 3w2 fix. Being the BEST isn’t her main goal, but it’s up there.

Oh, fun fact about Fluttershy by the way, Reitanna was considering making her a baker. As a FuckedUp!PinkieShy shipper (like in an AU where they’re both fucked up idk) I would’ve loved that.

“Yeah, your story makes more sense than mine, but I like the "what ifs" you can come with by reading stories like these. Could you imagine Fluttershy turning into a psycho with Pinkie, or getting super mad and taking revenge?” “I actually considered that, but just like you said, it seemed a bit OOC”

MBTI: ENFP.

Pinkie Pie is probably an ENFP. At first, I considered Se dom, however she is VERY opportunistic and has constant ideas. Who even gets an idea to bake someone because of a cheese grater? Poor writing, or a Ne character? Either way, I think Ne-Si makes more sense than Ni-Se. Pinkie actually does use Si to a degree. She gets enraged when Celestia takes her friends away (even if she did it herself. Hypocrisy!) and also has a very strict schedule on how she does things. Fi > Fe might seem very strange however Fi users can manipulate. Pinkie doesn’t care at all about societal standards. She only keeps up with them to avoid being caught for her crimes. Also, while she hides her depression, it’s mostly to protect herself rather than her sisters. In Twilight’s Fall, she has no problem being pessimistic to her friends and saying horrible stuff.

OCEAN: SLOEI.

Pretty self explanatory. I don’t think I need to explain this.

Temperament: Sanguine-choleric.

Conclusion: Sanguine-choleric sp7w8 782 ENFP SLOEI

Apple Bloom:

Oh Apple Bloom- she’s had it rough. Definitely a type. So, for her enneagram… I decided to look at Broken Tiara, as it’s the story I think characterises Apple Bloom the most, and Silence Is Silver. We learn from the former that Apple Bloom struggles with rage and wrath. She wants to cause other people pain because she’s suffered. Apple Bloom self-sabotages in the story, killing her very own big sister but using Pinkie Pie to fill the gap. She destroys her family, because they don’t matter anymore, Pinkie Pie does. She believes killing is her destiny.

Enneagram: sp6w7- explanation below

Reitanna says this about Apple Bloom, “Actually, no, it's nothing physical, it's a trauma model. Apple Bloom had already shown sociopathic traits by joining pinkie in the first place, but what people don't realize is, the actual act does a lot more to the mind than watching someone lose their life. First, with each incident she witnessed, stress and trauma were put on her brain little by little, meaning it was literally breaking her sanity. Once she did it herself, the power of this act traumatized her so severely, it finally broke her sanity. Since she is a child, the effects of this are much more detrimental than to an adult, due to the fact that the brain is still developing. The damage has caused her to develop one or two personality disorders, which is common in trauma models in children. Since she has been treated so kindly by pinkie pie, Apple Bloom's brain associates these acts as good things because she has been shown positive reinforcement by her mentor, therefore, she doesn't comprehend the fact that something bad has happened to her. She is under the assumption that THIS is who she really is because of pinkie's manipulation. This loss of reality makes her, by definition, insane.”

“I can't pinpoint exactly what she has because I would need to look at all of the personality disorders, but she's definitely not sane.”

Personally, I won’t theorise on what personality disorders Apple Bloom could have, as she is still a child, and children usually get diagnosed with conduct disorder rather than ASPD, so I don’t want to speculate too much.

Apple Bloom compartmentalises her empathy and true nature for her trauma and manipulated self. ("Nah," she chuckled, “That wasn't the real me. It never was. This is the real me, the other one was just tryin to keep me locked away.")

She has an obsession with destruction. She refers to wanting to destroy other ponies in Broken Tiara and says the exact same thing in Silence Is Silver when talking about Silver Spoon. She’s also power-driven, much like Pinkie Pie, and wrathful.

In ABGHCM (Apple Bloom Gets Her Cutie Mark) we see more of this behavior repeated. “I think this was all meant to happen. Everything happens for a reason, right? That's why I was the one who volunteered to take you when your number came up."

She justifies it all with it being her destiny. And getting her cutie mark (one of the worst utilising of this plot device ever) helps her solidify this. I sorta have a theory that Pinkie used dark magic or smth to give Apple Bloom that cutie mark to manipulate her further, but that would be silly. Perfect for Muffins, I can’t take a single thing in this story seriously.

I had to go back to the quiz to get more characterisation of Apple Bloom. If you want all the answers by the way, I’ll drop them right here:

Pinkie Answers:

"How are you today?" "Fine and dandy, right as candy!"

"When it comes to friendship, what do you think is most important?" "Support!My friends are my life! I'd be nothing without them!"

"If you found yourself in a very scary situation, how would you react?" "HA Me? Afraid? I fear nothing."

"What do you think of the world and the people in it?" "Oh, I LOVE everybody”

"If somepony attacks you, how do you respond?" "Oh, that was an attack? It felt like a bug bite.”

"What's your idea of a good time?" “EVERYBODY needs to be having a good time! Everybody that matters, of course!"

"How would you get revenge on those who hurt you?" "Life isn't about revenge, but every body else can do as they please!"

"How do you deal with sadness?" "I suppress the sadness by pretending it's not there."

"Do you think you might be crazy?" "No pony is entirely sane! I'm crazy in my own way!"

"When you do something bad, how do you feel?" "Oh, I NEVER do anything bad!" (Explicitly contradicted by her saying "we're bad people" in On Trial)

"What do you think of life?" "I love life! It's great!"

"How are your dreams?" "I have good dreams. If they turn bad, I just make them good again." (Contradicted in Sting.)

"How was your childhood?" "It was depressing until I was inspired to go my own way and find happiness."

"Someone just lied to you. How did you find out, and how do you respond?"

"I don't really care if they lied to me, l'm a pretty big liar myself."

"I see you have cupcakes. May I have one?" "Of course, take two if you'd like!"

"How do you perceive the mind?" "It's an amazing machine that can create wonderful things. Without it, we'd be boring."

"You know, I think you're an idiot." "Ha, yeah, sometimes I am."

"Last question... how is your sleep?" “I never want the day to end, so I stay up late until I pass out. My energy can keep me up for hours when it's time for bed, so I only get a few hours of sleep. It doesn't take a huge toll on me, though."

Minkie Answers:

"First of all, how are you doing today?" "Same as every day.”

"When it comes to friendship, what do you feel is most important?" "Love. The love shared among friends is the true key to happiness."

"If you found yourself in a very scary situation, how would you react?" "I hardly fear things. Whatever it is, I'll make it more afraid of me."

"What do you think of the world, other than yourself and those close to you?" "Scum. Trash.”

"If somepony attacks you, how do you respond?" “They know better than to attack me. So they wouldn't."

"What's your idea of a good time?" "If my friends are smiling and laughing, then I'm having the time of my life!"

"How would you get revenge on those who hurt you?" "I need to make sure they feel ALL of my pain."

"How do you deal with sadness?" "I'm honestly not very good at fighting it.”

"Do you think you may be crazy?" “I know I'm ill, but l'm not crazy. Crazy ponies aren't aware of their actions."

"When you do something bad, how do you feel?" "I only feel guilty if I did it to somepony I love, otherwise I feel nothing."

"What do you think of life?" "Life? What life?"

"How are your dreams?" "Mostly nightmares about traumatic events in my past. They wake me up frequently."

"How was your childhood?" "I was hurt and neglected for a long time. It has broken me, but I find things to make me feel better."

"Somepony just lied to you. How do you find out, and what do you do?" "They lied to my face. I can tell if somepony is lying immediately to me, and I make sure they stop.”

"I see you have cupcakes. Can I have one?" "Yes, but just one, okay?"

"How do you perceive the mind?" "Sometimes it's not so good to us. It can make us think things we don't want to think."

"You know what? I think you're an idiot.” “…”

"Last question, how is your sleep?" "Well, since I have trouble sleeping, I'll do whatever anypony else is doing if THEY are still up. Otherwise I lay in bed, hoping sleep will take me. This makes me sleepy during the day. When I DO sleep, my nightmares will wake me back up.”

Blinkie answers:

"First off, how are you doing today?" "What's it to YOU?"

"When it comes to friendship, what do you feel is most important?" "Honesty. I think it's important to stay honest with your friends."

"If you found yourself in a very scary situation, how would you react?" "If I’M not the cause of it, how scary can it be?"

"What do you think of the rest of the world, other than yourself and those around you?" "Ha! The world is full of ponies too DUMB to see the blatant truth in front of their eyes."

"If someone attacks you, how do you respond?” “Are you serious?”

"What's your idea of a good time?" “I need to be in control of the activity, or I'm not happy." (Well we can rule out A > E in OCEAN)

"How would you get revenge on those who hurt you?" "I will let them feel all the power of my rage.”

"How do you deal with sadness?" "With anger. Turn sadness to anger. It's the only way to cope." (Real, relatable)

"Do you think you might be crazy?" "Why would you ask that? Are you implying something?!"

"When you do something bad, how do you feel?" "I don't care. I MEANT to do it.”

"What do you think of life?" "Life is only as good as what I make it."

"How are your dreams?" "My dreams are however I want them to be. I can lucid dream." (Contradicted in Sting)

"How was your childhood?" "My family never supported anything I did, and I hated them for it. I was disciplined often."

"Someone just lied to you. How do you figure it out?" "Doesn't matter how I find out. I'll… make sure they regret it."

"I see you have a cupcake, may I have one?" "If you really wanted one, you'd go get it yourself.”

"How do you perceive the mind?" "It's the thing that creates ideas, good and bad. You don't have to do what it says."

"You know what? I think you're an idiot.” "[navy seals copypasta]”

"Last question, how is your sleep?" "I feel uncomfortable if everyone is asleep and I'm not. I might purposefully keep somepony awake if l'm not tired."

Inkie Answers:

"First off, how are you doing?" "If I get my way, I'm good any day."

"When it comes to friendship, what do you think is most important?" "Loyalty. I always protect those who are dear to me."

"If you found yourself in a scary situation, how'd you react?" "I don't scare easily. I'm decently calm."

"What do you think of the rest of the world, other than yourself and those close to you?" "Do you REALLY consider them individuals? Pfft."

"If someone decides to attacks you, how do you respond?” "Anyone dumb enough to try and attack me will regret it.”

"What's your idea of a good time?" "Everything needs to be to MY liking."

"How would you get revenge on those who hurt you?" "To them, it'll seem like it didn't affect me. But when they least expect it, I will go to extremes to make them pay."

"How do you deal with sadness?" "Well, I rarely feel sad at all, but when I do, it's not pretty."

"Do you think you might be crazy?" "Some people may consider my behaviour crazy, but if in my right mind, is it really so?"

"When you do something bad, how do you feel?” "If everything that happens happens, can we really do anything wrong?"

"What do you think of life?” "I don't hate life, I hate the concept of it. It's wasted on those who don't appreciate it.”

"How are your dreams?" "I prefer the bad dreams because they give me cool ideas. They're more frequent than the good dreams."

"How was your childhood?" "My family put a lot of pressure on me. The affects stay with me to this day."

"Somepony just lied to you. How did you find out, and how do you respond?" "If I have a gut feeling I'm being lied to, l'll try and force the truth out of them."

"I see you have a cupcake or two. May I have one? "I'll think about it... how about you try and impress me for it?"

"How do you perceive the mind?" "The mind is whatever you make it."

"You know, I think you're an idiot." "Hmph. Likewise."

"Last question, how is your sleep?" "I like to settle down and chill, enjoying the company of anypony else who is still up. I'll easily go to sleep when they do. I have a bad habit of waking too early, which makes me sort of groggy, but l'm fine."

Apple-Bloom Answers:

"How is your day?” "I'm cautious, but I know I'II be fine!"

"When it comes to friendship, what do you think is most important?" "Dedication! I think friends should remain loyal and true."

"If you find yourself in a scary situation, how would you react?" "Sometimes the fear DOES strike me, but responding with courage is a true sign of character." (Sx6? Sp6 with a sx second instinct and so blind?)

"What do you think of the world, other than yourself and those close to you?" "Pathetic, absolutely pathetic. In fact it's REALLY funny."

"If somepony attacks you, how do you respond?" "I may be small, but i'm tough. Don't underestimate how badly I can kick their butt."

"What's your idea of fun?" "If I can let loose completely, it's a party!”

"How would you get revenge on those who've hurt you?" "They hurt me, so I want them to hurt 10x more."

"How do you deal with sadness?" “I have to cry it out, but I don't want anypony to see me doing it."

"Do you think you might be crazy?" "Of course not! I am who I am! Everypony else is crazy!"

"When you do something bad, how do you feel?" "Sometimes I feel a twinge of guilt, but if I ignore it, it goes away."

"What do you think of your life?" "When I was young, everything seemed so dandy... When did it start feeling so terrible?" (I know she’s had a terrible childhood but girl- WHEN?)

"How are your dreams?" "Sometimes my dreams are pretty bad, and they stem from bad memories or feelings."

"How was your childhood?" "I was raised well by my family, but I chose my own path, one they didn't approve of."

"Somepony just lied to you, how do you find out?" "They lied to me? I'll lie right back, in that way it'll be my revenge."

"I see you have a cupcake, may I have one?” "Why not? I have them, so l'll share them!"

"How do you perceive the mind?" "It's fragile. If it breaks, it's unlikely to be fixed."

"You know, I think you're an idiot” "I'll remember that next time I consider doing something nice for you."

"Last question, how is your sleep?" "I spent all day having fun, so I feel exhausted toward the end of the night. I try to stay up with my friends, but end up falling asleep at some point or another. Sometimes my bad dreams wake me up in the middle of the night, but I can fall asleep soon after."

BabsSeed Answr:

"First off, how are you doing today?" "I can't complain, really!"

"When it comes to friendship, what do you feel is most important?" "Giving back. When a friend helps you when things are bad, it's important to pay it forward."

"If you found yourself in a very scary situation, how would you react?" "Fight or flight? Ha, my first instinct is to fight.” (Counter6)

"What do you think of the world aside from your friends?" “They are weak fools who can't think for themselves."

"If someone attacks, what do you do?" "No one gets away with attacking me."

"What's your idea of a good time?" "If my friends and I don't have to hold anything back, it's a PARTY, PARTY PARTY"

"How would you get revenge on those who hurt you?" "Hahaha... let's say... no one gets away with hurting me."

"How do you deal with sadness?" "…have to distract myself.”

"Do you think you might be crazy?" "I am perfectly sane! I know exactly what I'm doing.”

"When you do something bad, how do you feel?" "Well, no pony knows l'm the one that did it. It's only wrong if I get caught." (Reitanna stop making TOOL references every two seconds challenge: IMPOSSIBLE)

"What do you think of life?" "Life was really unfair to me. But it's just a game, right? Now I'm the one winning."

"How are your dreams?" "My dreams are usually pretty nice. Sometimes I get bad ones, though that don't bother me."

"How was your childhood?" "| experienced heavy losses so young in life, as well as suffered from violent bullying. I was depressed until a dear friend helped me get back up."

"Somepony just lied to you. How do you figure that?" "I'll find out on my own. I'm smart, so I know. I’ll play along with them until I get the chance.”

"I see you have a cupcake. Can I have one?" "Depends... what have you done for me lately?"

"How do you perceive the mind?" "The mind is sacred. It should be fed knowledge, it should be soothed with meditation." (5 fix?)

"You know, I think you're an idiot." "Oh yeah? Well [a yo-mama-fat type insult, literally]”

Last question... how is your sleepis?" "Well, I make full use of the evening until I start to feel tired. Then I listen to music as I fall asleep. I keep it on low volume, and on repeat, so I hear my favourite songs in my dreams."

Our Muffins Blorbo 🫧:

"First off, how are you feeling today?" “I am so, SO happy today.”

"When it comes to friendship, what do you think is most important?" "Happiness! If my friends are happy, I am too!" (Fe > Fi?)

"You find yourself in a scary place and situation, how do you react?" "Sometimes I give into fear and run, it depends on HOW scary it is."

"What do you think of the rest of the world, other than yourself and those close to you?” "Oh! Everyone is great, there are a few bad ones though."

"If somepony attacks you, how do you respond?” "Why would they do that?! I haven't done anything wrong! have a right to defend myself!” (Hypocrite)

"What's your idea of a good time?" "Surrounded by all my friends no matter what!”

"How would you get revenge on those who hurt you?" "I'm tired of getting harmed. My revenge is going on anyone get my hooves on."

"How do you deal with sadness?" "I have to cry. If you cry, you feel better afterwards."

"Do you think you might be crazy?" "I'm not crazy, my reality is different than yours!"

"When you do something bad, how do you feel?" "My GOOD actions make up for my bad ones."

"What do you think of life?" "I feel betrayed by life. No pony exists on purpose. But I find reasons to smile!"

"How are your dreams?" "Usually my dreams are so real, I mistake them for reality. They can be good or bad."

"How was your childhood?" "I thought everything was good, but then I got abandoned and had to find my own way."

"Somepony just lied to you. What do you do?” "I am told by a friend and feel hurt by a liar, and tell them to never talk to me again."

"I see you have a cupcake, can I have one?" "I'll give you more than one! You can have half, and l'll have half, that way it's even."

"How do you perceive the mind?" "Sometimes you see things differently from others because your brain is programmed differently." (And rei says she isn't autistic coded...)

“You know what? You’re an idiot.” “I am NOT an idiot.” (10/10 defence.)

"Last question, how is your sleep?” ur sl "I try to stay up with my friends, but end up falling asleep first. just get really tired if it's been a long day, and sometimes I'II also take naps. I DO feel refreshed while I'm awake, though."

RUN:

"First off, how are you doing today?" "Things are great!"

"When it comes to friendship, what do you think is most important?" "Connection. I just love my friends so much, I don't know what I'd do if I lost them."

"If you found yourself in a very scary situation, what is your reaction?" "I tend to flee."

"What do you think about the rest of the world other than yourself?" "Some are good, some are bad, that's just the way it is."

"If somepony attacks you, how do you respond?" "I would ask them why they attacked me!"

"What's your idea of a good time?" “I like to party with my friends, but I also like to make new ones."

"How do you get revenge on those who hurt you?" "Revenge never solves anything."

"How do you deal with sadness?" "I just try to think positively, even when crying."

"Do you think you are crazy?" "Well, what do you mean by crazy? 'Crazy' as in eccentric, 'crazy' as in insane? I need some more context!" (Reitanna hates rational people who ask questions.)

"When you do something bad, do you feel bad?" "I feel guilty, and that guilt doesn't go away until I confess."

"What do you think of life?" "Life is good. I wake up every morning and I just feel so good!"

"How are your dreams?" “They can be good, they can be bad. It just depends on what my brain is dealing with at the time."

"How was your childhood?" “There were good times and bad. My experiences made me who I am."

"Somepony just lied to you. How did you find out, and how do you respond?" "Why would somepony lie to me? No, there must be some mistake. People don't just... LIE... do they?!" (Yeah no one thinks this...)

"Can I have a cupcake?" "I'm not gonna finish them all on my own, silly!'"

"How do you perceive the mind?" "Your mind is like a sanctuary; it tells you what is right and what is wrong."

"You know what, I think you're a fucking idiot." "That's not very nice. How can you say something like that so easily?"

"Last question, how is your sleep?" "I like to iust settle down and read or something else calming) until I'm tired enough to sleep. I don't have any troubles falling asleep at all."

Anyway, let’s look at Apple Bloom’s answers. She’s optimistic (believing everything will be okay), loyal, “brave,” condescending, anger driven and spiteful. Things we already knew. Her enneagram being 1 is unlikely, unless she’s a very unhealthy one. 2 isn’t impossible, but she doesn’t seem very heart triad, you know? Probably not a 5. 6, 7, 8 and 9 are on the table. I think 6 is the most likely, and we can rule out 8 and 9. She’s probably a sp6w7.

“Preservation Sixes want to feel the embrace of the family, to be in a warm, protected place where there are no enemies. They search for an "idealized other" for protection, and they can have issues that look like separation anxiety. Like a child who needs to hold on to the mother, these Sixes don't feel confident in defending their own self-interests and survival.”

“These Sixes seek to escape anxiety by seeking the security of protection; therefore, they become dependent on others. They have a passion for compensating for the fear of separation, which manifests as warm and friendly temperament. Their driving need is therefore for something like (neurotic) friendship or warmth, which makes this subtype the warmest of these Sixes. They tend to be in a good mood and have a generally pleasant disposition. They look for a bond of intimacy and trust in their relationships, and they fear disappointing others, especially those who are closest to them. Being warm is their way of getting people to be friendly so they won't be attacked.”

However, due to her sx instinct being second, I think she still has some sx 6 traits. Also,

She doesn’t seem to hide her anger. In fact, she actively goes against Pinkie, but that’s when she’s REALLY pissed off towards Diamond Tiara, not her usual mode. In fact, she seems scared of Pinkie otherwise.

Could be sp7, but I doubt it.

Tritype: 638

Okay, figuring out her tritype was HELL, but I think I’ve got it down. So, her heart type was the hardest to find, but I think she’s a 3 fix. Why? Because she’s obsessed with getting her cutie mark, as a means of protection (6 core) from her bullies. As for her gut type, I think we can rule out 1, as she doesn’t really care about morality, and 9, because she isn’t conflict-avoiding.

MBTI: ISTP

So, probably a Fe-Ti user, but I can see her Ti being higher than Fe. As for her other functions, I think… Se-Ni? Maybe Ti-Se-Fe-Ni… but that doesn’t FEEL right. That’s ISTP, right? Um…

She uses Ni in ABGHCM when she predicts Applejack will need stronger restraints, and she has very Ni attitudes in life (“this was meant to happen.”

Ni-Fe? INFJ? Unlikely. Her Fe isn’t THAT strong. Tert Fe seems right. ESTP? But E6 is cognitively introverted. She uses a LOT of Ni.

Actually, I can see Fi-Ni for Apple Bloom, but maybe Inferior Fi? No… Tert Fi? What “values” does she have though? Literally none.

ISTP? She’s kinda manipulative, but inferior Fe users still have Fe in their stack. I mean she literally taunts Applejack by saying “One last bit of sisterly bonding, right?”

And she HAS gone against group values before… I don’t know. I can’t guess very well, but ISTP is the closest I can guess.

SLOAN: SLUEN

Temperament. Sanguine-choleric. [angry sanguine <:()

Conclusion: sp6w7 638 ISTP SLUEN Sanguine-choleric.

Derpy Hooves:

Enneagram: sp7w6

Derpy!! Our blorbo!! We only have Derpy and Babs left, so let’s start with our autistic little blorbo. So, Derpy was abandoned from a young age, and had no friends. Stumbling across Pinkie’s hobby sort of gave her a connection, or someone to rely on. Sp7 is my first thought, to be honest. Not a 1, 2, 3 and probably not a core 4. We can rule out 5, and 6 is unlikely. Same with 8 or 9. In fact, I’m pretty confident she is a 7. I don’t know her instinct though. Reitanna once said on Twitter Derpy struggles with Gluttony, so…

Probably sp/sx 7w6 (still wary) 741.

Okay, so, I probably have to justify that 1 fix. Derpy is very cautious of making a mistake, so the point where she cries because of it. She’s also under the impression that what she’s doing is morally justified to a degree, “what’s bad for you is good for us,” though that could just be selfishness. Her 1 fix is very light, but I feel like she hates the way she was treated and hates how cruel the world is, despite the fact she is a hypocrite.

MBTI: ESFJ

Fe is not impossible, but idk if it’s her dominant function, really so. I think she’s an XSFJ, probably ESFJ. And the reasoning is that she’s very empathetic, albeit selectively, and she values her friends happiness over her own. She doesn’t like change very much, like when Pinkie got taken away, and that’s how anyone would react, but she does seem to like feeling safe and structured. She had an adventurous side though (Tert Neh) and uses VERY flawed logic to justify her actions using her inf logic.

SLOAN: SLUAN.

She’s just a little borbcy.

Temperament: sanguine-phlegmatic.

Conclusion: ESFJ sp7w6 741 SLUAN sanguine-phlegmatic.

Babs Seed’s Typing:

Enneagram: sx6

Ah yes, the best Muffins character. Well, according to Reitanna and only Reitanna, no one else likes her. Anyway, let’s rule out the obvious. She’s probably not a 1, 2, 3 or 4. 4 fix is possible. 7 and 9 is also less likely. 5, 6 and 8 are the main contenders. We can rule out sp6 and so6. I don’t think she’s an 8, as she doesn’t seem to care about control, but protecting herself. So, now we’re torn between 5 and 6. I’m leaning 5? She could also be a 9. No, I think she’s a 5. She’s very obsessed with mindfulness, taming the mind and… she’s also too confident to be a 5. I know, fallacy. But I don’t really understand fives. You’re like aliens.

I don’t think she’s a 5. Probably a 6w7, actually. Sx/sp6.

Tritype: 684

Probably a 8 and 4 fix. Like, she definitely has 4 traits. She gets jealous of ducks. DUCKS. She insists on fighting her OWN battles, and boy does she fight. She has some so8 traits but uh, killing Fluttershy isn’t exactly “protecting the weak.” She thinks homiending is “strong.”

MBTI:

Ahhh… ugh. Okay, so, Fi inferior isn’t impossible, but Ti > Te makes sense. So, maybe Fe tert? ESTP? Se-Ni is obvious. ESTP is my best guess.

SLOAN: SCOEN.

Temperament: choleric-sanguine.

Conclusion: choleric-sanguine ESTP sx6w7 684 SCOEN.

And that’s it! That’s my analysis of the bakers! I don’t plan on making any changes, and I probably WILL change my mind many times. I could go into other characters, but the point is, the writing in Muffins isn’t the best, so that’s unlikely. Chances are, I’ll leave this post here and yeah.

Edit: When I made this post, my understanding of enneagram wasn’t perfect, and my understanding of socionics was worse. If you want to know my updated thoughts, I might make a post about it, but I’ve already made two posts about this at this point. Would you guys like a part three?

[windudemon]

ignoring function VS demonstrative function in socionics (5th function vs 6th function in mbti)

this is super useful for differing entps from intps, enfjs from infjs etc. for example, extps are TE demonstrative. they won't have any problems TE scolding you (critical parent in john beebe's system) or taking initiative and telling people what to do.

for ixtps on the other hand TE is ignoring function. an intp or istp will try to lead only when absolutely have to. why you ask, prove it you say? well, the reason why ELSE because extps are also fe tertiary while ixtps are fe inferior. ixtps do not want to deal with people.

more proof you say? well, fe tertiary for extps means fi blindspot. if your fe is trolly as an extp then your fi is gonna be worse as its shadow. extp do not give a dang about your feelings or AT LEAST, extps do not give a dang about your feelings when they clash with the logic. isn't this still good enough reason for you why extps can order people around with their te (or fe) while ixtps can't or at least won't?

socionics puts ixtps and their fi in the "role" slot. role function tries. ixtps tries to be nice. if you have some ixtps friends you will see this, you don't need a complicated 89 dichotomy based system whatsoever. whenever ixtps hurt people with their logic, they do it by mistake only.

[afriendtokilltime]

Socionics functions vs MBTI functions vs Jung

So I mentioned Socionics and MBTI functions are different. They both come from the same source, Jung’s cognitive functions, which are rather different, too. Here’s how.

Se

Jung: Perceives in a realistic, concrete way--concerned with facts but not with drawing logical conclusions from them. Strong aesthetic sensibility--even draws moral conclusions based on “aesthetic purity.”

MBTI: Perceives “here and now” or “with the 5 primary senses.” Pleasure seeking, loves novelty, loves beauty. Good in high-intensity situations. Needs freedom, individualistic, fun.

Socionics: Perceives in terms of “kinetic energy.” Knowing what levers to pull and buttons to push to get results. Seeing weak points. Powerful, willful, competitive. Associated with aesthetics but only for their power value--cool, fashionable, intimidating.

Si

Jung: Absolutely fucking epic mythological internal world, but barely any ability to communicate appropriately with the outside world. Would be a great artist but tragically rarely will.

MBTI: Boring. Staid. Your parents. Your boss. Conservative. Terrific memory. Responsible. Level headed. Needs structure. Dislikes change. Nostalgic and focused on the past. Really good at improving at something gradually over time (because muscle memory, etc).

Socionics: Relaxed, cozy, love beauty, strong aesthetic sensibility, good at organizing their environment to produce the best internal sensations for them, carefree, very adaptable and willing to adapt without requiring explanation, poor long term planners.

Fe

Jung: Women be crazy, don’t they?

MBTI: Social and popular, smooths things over, good at blending in/getting along. Focused on finding objective moral conclusions. Tries to find a solution that is best for everyone.

Socionics: Can read and create passions, excitement, liveliness, fun, moods, emotional states. Can calm things down but is more likely to shake them up. Gets emotionally invested, gets others emotionally invested. Dislikes secrets. Focused on the immediate social/emotional landscape rather than the relationships it may impact.

Fi

Jung: Women be crazy but in a different way, don’t they?

MBTI: Personal values, individual morality. Always knows what they believe and puts their own individual opinions over the group. May seem less feeling, “still waters run deep.” Skeptical of conventions and norms.

Socionics: Evaluates relationships and psychological distance. Sense of etiquette and propriety. Does not see a need to be very demonstrative with emotions. Principled and serious.

Te

Jung: The reason nobody takes my ideas seriously. Concerned with concrete facts, data, organization, goal setting.

MBTI: Wants to make the external world more rational, by creating and upholding objective standards. Impersonal, blunt, “to the point.” Might believe that facts don’t care about your feelings.

Socionics: Deals with how things work and how they could be made to work better. Has a need to gather factual information, might love research and books. Really disturbed by saying anything they know not to be factually true, so blunt, not socially graceful.

Ti

Jung: Subjective, uses deductive reasoning, wants to abstract a system to its most fundamental principles. When they have created an idea/structure, they’ll release it into the world like the most negligent parent, letting it sink or swim on its own. Jung was Ti (Ti-S or what potentially might be Ti-Se).

MBTI: Concerned with how things fit together logically and if they “make sense,” not whether they are factually true or false. Wants to understand the “essence” of things. Independent, prefers working alone, potentially rebellious because of being critical of externally imposed structure, sometimes rigid.

Socionics: Can evaluate if things are logically consistent/correct, generate systems and structure, prefer to rely on their own experience/conclusions rather than authorities. Sensitive to redundant information. Dislike practicality. Dislike those who behave “irrationally.”

Ne

Jung: Function of entrepreneurs. In a few respects sounds more to me like how the other systems define Se and/or Te. Brainstormer, flighty, indecisive, focused on potential--in these ways, clearly not Se/Te-like.

MBTI: Wacky and creative, “outside the box,” can always see more possibilities, “looks behind” the data to find new connections and hidden potentials. Loves novelty, needs freedom, might seem scatterbrained.

Socionics: Able to see new possibilities, to accurately assess the talents (potential) of themselves and others, to see parallels between very different types of information. Sees many different ways something could happen. Likes the beginning stages of things.

All of them: Focused on potential, unable to tie own shoes, one of the better types.

Ni

Jung: Pulls together a wide array of phenomena into one, synthesized, image. Difficult to sway from their worldview and the images they perceive, which are often heavily abstracted from the reality that others see around them. With no outlet, is a “voice crying out in the wilderness.” Two subtypes: one for whom the imagery/associations they perceive is the only thing of value, and one who recognizes a moral value in these images and wants to communicate it.

MBTI: May appear “psychic” or have insights that “come out of nowhere” after they subconsciously piece something together. Feel things will play out with certainty according to what they foresee. Interest in archetypes and resolving paradoxes. “About the box” (as opposed to outside). Jung was Ni (INFJ).

Socionics: “Intuition of time.” Sees how things are developing, and where they are going. Focused on cause and effect. Rich mental world. Lazy and inactive. Can thrive in situations where they’re inexperienced or lack data. (However, they do not improve over time, unlike Si types.)

I’m sorry. This turned into much more of a shitpost than it was supposed to be.

I don’t think these definitions are fundamentally incompatible--in fact, I’ve illustrated each with a gif of a character who I think is correctly described by each system--but they don’t overlap 100% of the time.

[funkymbtifiction]

Is needing consensus in terms of knowledge/information a plague of any particular function? The biggest frustration I have over typology is that nothing is fact, everything seems up to interpretation. There's no "true" definition of the functions, it varies depending on the source.

Well, it is just a THEORY. It's not factual, and psychologists don't acknowledge it as real, so you have to treat it as hypothetical. But there is a consensus of the functions, in my experience (as long as you're not trying to cross-over between Jung, MBTI, and Socionics). I recommend finding nuanced depictions of the functions; anything that sounds shallow, judgmental (eg: sensors are stupid and boring), or biased aren't going to be accurate. Find one explanation you feel comfortable with that seems to make sense in how it plays out in other people and use that as your baseline.

This makes it impossible for me to feel confident about my self typing. Of course there's lack of self awareness involved too, but even when I try to use external feedback about me in order to find a most fit type run into this issue: depending on the source my strong sense and prioritization of right/wrong fits Fi, but in another it fits Ti.

I gotta ask, have you read my book yet? Fi is about subjective, impressionistic "like/dislike" internal reactions; Ti is about taking apart an impersonal system in an attempt to comprehend how it functions. Get it. Those chapters will be enlightening for you.

My penchant for having realistic expectations and looking for workable solutions is attributed to Te for some, for others is a Se trait.

It can be both; but it's either a process of rational judgment vs. objective perception. The question I would be asking at this point is, do I live the life of an TJ or an SP? ;)

I tried the identifying your type by the inferior function but there's the same issue, for example: I totally fit the zero patience with detailed sequential work, poor retainment of methods and hypocondria of some inferior Si descriptions, but not he terrible memory, lack of attention to physical reality and disdain for tradition that other profiles emphasize. <- this could easily be ISTP

I rarely have issues typing others because "I know it when I see it", somehow I can correctly recognize the axis in others (they just jumps at me and I can explain easily). That's why I end up relying on the theoretical side of things because supposedly it'd be more objective, you either fit the definition or not, but that doesn't work due to the lack of consensus. I'm frustrated that I can't apply the same method I use to type others to myself simply because, at least on a conscious level, there is no method.

It's because you are biased about yourself, and too close to yourself to be objective. Try implementing a Te method: the type that requires the least amount of explaining is correct. Which would that be?

I tried using the relating method by watching a bunch of people of a supposed type too see if I think like them, but it didn't make things more clear due to several of them seeming mistyped, besides factors like clearly being a different Enneagram type etc. I'd watch one ISTP and be like "Oh yeah, I agree with this and that, maybe that's it", but then watch another one and go "No way we're the same type, I can't comprehend this way of thinking at all". <- this won't help when you are searching for your type, because your Enneagram type is going to change everything.

It's also an issue when trying to have typology being taken seriously: if people who use it and even are seen as "authorities" about it can't even agree on what a function is, are the even real? I know they are because like Jung, I see them in people around me all the time. But how am I suppose to prove their existence if they can't be diagnosed by an exam, let alone be quantified?

Why do you need to prove it? Why do you need them to think it's valid? The answer to that question will tell you something about your judging axis. If it's because you need people to agree with you and see your way of thinking, that's usually Fe-based. A Te, even a lower Te like myself, has an attitude of -- you can't make people believe anything, so if they don't want to, who cares? It's their choice if they think MBTI is valid or not, and it's not my job to convince them. TP/FJs want people to agree with them more than TJ/FPs, because of a Fe sense of "if a lot of people agree with this, it's valid" based thinking (the more people that agree, the more valid the theory; vs the Te "the more concrete proof there is, the more I can rely on this").

You also sound frustrated and overwhelmed, so I'd say back off from it for a while. Let it rest. Think about other things. Come back to it -- if you want to, later when you're not as over-stuffed with competing pieces of information. Because you need to pick which system you believe in, and go with that.

[coffeeshoptalkks]

hyunjae | entp vs intp |

yet another unnecessarily long analysis that no one asked for

hes so cute :(

aka i have a fever and don’t want to do calculus so here we are

used personality database data/discussion and made my own decision

theres been a lot of debate about hyunjae being an entp vs intp 

and by a lot i mean just on personality database but i must have an answer so here we are

the gist is that we’re all sure hes a XNTP but when it comes to cognitive functions it gets messy cause you’re just working with order

yeah yeah grant vs myers briggs, jungian, can it world

so me being the Ne user i am i need all the information in the world and then make connections

bad news for explaining it is that nobody except me has the exact connotations for what i’m talking about and makes sense in my head

the easiest way for me to explain this is that i use every personality categorization system, astrology, socionics, mbti, enneagram, and type people within each system

after that i start drawing lines between all of the classifications

its very nice for Ne to have a base because otherwise anything i’m trying to explain is more like grandiose hand waving while nobody understands

anyway

each test looks for something different

you can be the same type as someone with mbti but a different enneagram (entp 8w7 vs entp 2w3 - yes we know the 2w3 isn’t normal, he got fucked up as a child)

so i looked at this in a really holistic sense

everything connects to everything

so the final decision is just the culmination of the data that i’ve collected and then made a decision on

disagree if you like :)

btw theres a dissertation below the cut lol

final decision: INTP

its an intp with classic entp enneagram fixes

(person who talked about intp w/ entp enneagram)

the general consensus is that jae is a 7w8 

(i have not looked super far i am going off of other peoples information but it feels correct)

argue all u want on the fixes but core is gonna be 7w8

its not uncommon for an INTP to have a 7 core

a wing 8 would make the 7 a little more daring and outgoing than your average 7w6

it would also make an INTP look closer to the ENTP stereotype

also please keep in mind that we see him around his members most of the time and all XNTPs become 10x more social and comfortable around close friends than in a new situation

remember that both ENTPs and INTPs have Fe/Si (opposite orders) as tertiary and inferior

when thrown into a completely new situation both of them have to get a sense of what is going on before doing anything else

for me its pushing until i hit a wall and going “great! now i know where the wall is” and i can avoid it from then on

it may come off as blunt and inappropriate but really we just have 0 clue whats going on until you give us a little time

once you get us in our element engaged in something we find interesting we won’t shut up 

i’m using “we” referencing ENTP/INTPs because they do share some fundamental similarities

so assuming hes a 7w8 it would make sense for him to be a little bit more outgoing than your average intp, and considering the amount of time he spends around his members it would also make sense for him to be more comfortable in the environment that he’s super familiar with

overdeveloping an inferior function

sometimes people end up with a really strong tertiary function or super super overdeveloped inferior function

hyunjae is an idol

his fe had to develop faster otherwise PR would be a nightmare and it would just be overall problematic

its the same premise when female ENTPs almost always have more developed Fe than male ENTPs, especially when they’re younger

because females are expected to be more emotional and empathetic than men (fuck you society but aneyway) female entps get exposed to “needing” Fe a lot earlier in life

no you don’t have to develop it, but most of the time its easier to put on a Fe mask and chameleon your way through a situation than fight every dumbass who underestimates you and doesn’t have a brain

“you catch more flies with honey” bullshit

pain in the ass but society dictates...

move on before you go on ur what society expects from females rant girl

where was this going? right

given the circumstances it would make sense for hyunjae to develop his Fe in a way that many INTPs wouldn’t

speaking from my own perspective, XNTPs are able to fit in anywhere because they learned real early that their “normal” behavior was not acceptable, societal or otherwise

without sounding egotistical, the world was not made for XNTPs to function in

our entire society could be categorized as XSXJ

people living in the literal world, in the moment, and people wanting structure and planning 

that made 0 sense oh whell

you get a better idea when looking at the cognitive functions

the bottom two are Fe/Si or Si/Fe 

XNTPS need context for anything to make an ounce of sense

whether it be with people or situations

if we haven’t experienced a situation before (even a moderately similar one doesn’t help that much) its fucking stressful cause Ne/Ti is running around on a four-wheeler with torches and a blindfold on with Si and Fe frantically trying to put up bumpers before they hit something (ie fuck something up or do something “inappropriate”)

as an idol you have to be very careful with your image

say what you might about whether they should be judged harshly etc etc but its just facts

one wrong move could cause a scandal, hatred towards your group

with that on the line, you naturally are going to be more conscientious about your image, your actions towards people, how others see you

the biggest argument for ENTP is his developed Fe

but as someone whos sitting with a really forcibly developed inferior Si?

all the other information combined makes me say INTP

personal anecdote here:

at 19 entps aren’t usually dealing with Fe that well, let alone Si

but for me, a situation came around that made me develop Si

it was literally: take care of your body, manage your time, fucking feed yourself 

or stop living your life in any functioning manner

you know what i chose

so now i’ve got a (relatively speaking to the normal ENTP growth path) overdeveloped Si 

its still not great, but it sure is a hell of a lot better than before my life hit the fan

with a career on the line?

you develop that damn Fe lol

sidetracking a little into enneagram territory but it applies here

hyunjae has a SP/SO instinctual stack (more below)

tldr is that hes selfish with his time but also wants to take care of the group around him

for context i’m a SP/SX 8w7

you put SP/SO together and you’re trying to maintain the harmony of the group 1. because you want to and 2. because a harmonious group is less work for you to try and fix every problem that pops up

you would not believe the lengths i will go to to avoid extra interpersonal work

i kid you not i will actively attempt to prevent a problem from happening by steering the conversation or lightly planting ideas when talking to people

to the point that (i admit) it might be more work than if i just let the damn thing play out

because despite my dislike of feelings (and people sometimes) that Fe decides to stick its head out and make me feel morally responsible to do something about the problem

quite annoying when i’ve got other problems going on

as much as i’m sure hyunjae cares deeply about his members, at least a small part of him is doing it because it literally just causes fewer problems to deal with it then than in the future

like *ah, i can tell them to be careful of their image rn and avoid press and the emotional turmoil that will follow later*

that kind of thing

citing that tertiary Si

as stated earlier, the most convincing argument for him being a ENTP is his developed Fe

on the flip side, not being able to find a tertiary Si

i’ll make this argument the most with Ni, but introverted functions are, by nature, harder to spot

the energy goes inwards not outwards, one of the biggest gripes that i have with people is (i’m an entp if you haven’t figure it out) that they underestimate my Ti

when i’m around people i’m using that Ne/Fe

Ne’s spewing off crazy ideas and Fe is a carefree child getting excited by Ne’s suggestion to get ice cream at 2am

they don’t see the Ti

(listen, i would love to nOt use personal anecdotes but i have no other way to explain the mess of connections in my head so you’re welcome)

the most obvious Si to me is his love of iron man

the dude LOVES iron man, and we love him for it

but entps don’t get attached easily

to this day i don’t have a “quote” to live by or favorite movie

him latching on to a character and having it inspire him since he was a child points towards a tertiary, rather than inferior Si

child being the key word there

the only way that my Si manifests when it comes to being sentimental/holding on to the past is with tangible things 

my favorite type of sushi, the brand of pens i’ve used for years, the coffee drink that i order at every single shop no matter what (oops)

i said earlier that my Si was developed, it is, but it was such a conscious decision and awareness for me to do so

it doesn’t change the fact that it’s an inferior function for me

hyunjae is very open about his love for iron man, hes attached to past things and ideas

they bring him comfort and inspiration

i believe hyunjae said thank you for inspiring him since he was 7/8?

and entp wouldn’t be using Si like that so young, but an intp? that’s a different story

enneagram instinctual variants/stacking

jae has a SP/SO instinctual stack

i’m not even going to put a disclaimer cause hes textbook tbh

what happens with an SP first instinct is that you are so incredibly stringent with your time and resources

sometimes this gets over-written when in an especially good mental state or when the SP feels they have enough resources

but in general its a “me first, i’ll deal with you people later”

you know those air masks that airplanes have and the “if you have a child secure ur own mask before helping them”

same premise

in a SPs head their wellbeing is more important than others because if they aren’t functioning then how the hell are they supposed to help other people

even a super introverted ENTP (i’m talking about energy wise not cognitive functions) SP instinct or not, is going to be as quiet and, dare i say awkward/uncomfortable in social situation the way that i’ve seen hyunjae be

anecdotal evidence

i have never met an entp that would describe themselves as shy

ambivert? maybe

introverted? also maybe

but shy isn’t usually in the repertoire 

this person (here)

said that they have never seen an ENTP look as out of place as hyunjae does sometimes, and honestly? i would have to agree

with his members the Fe is blatantly obvious

but you put him in a new situation?

hes not reading people and opening up like an ENTP would

you give an ENTP about 30 mins and a conversation in any environment they’re gonna be talking to the person about their wedding and three dogs

hyunjae just... doesn’t do that? 

in the millennial video jae says that hes the one who will stand up for someone

sometimes to the point of it being detrimental to him

real talk? a SP ENTP would not be doing that most of the time

because it better be a real big thing for me to actively put myself in a bad position for you because then its more work for me personally

Si in the tertiary spot does the same thing that Fe in an entp does

it goes “i know what to do, but the question is will i chose to”

sacrificing his own comfort for someone else’s is both growth in Si (being pushed out of comfort zone causes growth) and also a misuse if it causes him to neglect his own needs

he said that one of his problems is being too blunt and his words being taken the wrong way 

entps are calculated

tertiary Fe means that they’re very liable to misuse it (ie manipulate and lie their asses off for fun, which granted, is entertaining sometimes)

when an ENTP decides to say something blunt they know the general outcome of their words

how it might be taken, what will happen afterwards

in essence “you have to know the rules to break the rules”

and damn is that true

when an entp says something rude (or even something that could be perceived as rude 8/10 for this one lol) 9/10 times its so fucking intentional

like i cannot emphasize how intentional those decisions are

if we’re even somewhat familiar with the person involved we know what buttons to press and which ones not to

its when we make the conscious decision to press the button 

last one here

you know that tiktok dance challenge for cosmo?

the dude is SHY 

i do believe that he hunches over when his turn is done and attempts to avoid eye contact with everyone lol

during the group dance he legitimately stands behind juyeon, doesn’t dance, and then shuffles back off camera

its really an argument against tert Fe here because when put in an uncomfortable positions ENTPs will usually push it off with sarcasm/use Fe to show their discomfort

their feeling goes outwards towards other people while jae doesn’t do the *pushing vibes off self into the room* thing that i’ve found to be common with entps

wheww that was a lot

so have an analysis that nobody asked for… i spent so much time watching hyunjae today and i have no regrets

tbh i really do respect him as a person and this is all speculative/what i’ve deduced from information

quick reminder that this is all for fun and entertainment, and the reality is we don’t know our idols in real life ! !

any time that an idol chooses to open up is a real gift, especially because they don’t have to. they do it as a gift to fans.

i’ll write a long ass thing later about me speaking in definitives but always having the understanding and belief that it is my opinion and not fact

ie when i talk about astrology but don’t even know where i stand on belief but i do use it as a method to categorize and understand people

-

hope you enjoyed

stan the boyz 

fin :)

[mbtimyths]

Hi, I am trying to mix game theory with relationship in MBTI. And I had to quantify the best type of relationship in the MBTI and for that iI used the intertype relation in socionics. The problem is that I need to find a way to explain why I classify some relation higher than some others and also justify why some of them will have a higher score than the others in my game. For example a Dual relationship have a score close to 1 (high) and conflict will be close to 0 (low).

This is awesome! I’m going to start by listing the rankings as assigned by sociotype.com, then I’ll explain the reasoning I deduced beneath the cut.

The compatibility of intertype relations, from greatest to least, is as follows:

Duality

Identity

Activation

Mirror

Mirage

Semi-duality

Congenerity

Cooperation

Recruit

Supervisor

Recruiter

Supervisee

Super-ego

Extinguishment

Quasi-identity

Conflict

So I went to https://sociotype.com/tools/ and used the intertype relationship calculator to get a gist of how they rank the relationships. (I'll translate the Socionics lingo to MBTI in the parentheses.) I'll also use this graphic to illustrate Model A through Jung's archetypes:

I found that they score types that value the same functions (dominant through inferior) the highest– let’s call this the “soulmate” group. Second highest are the types that share only two valued functions AND two independent/dependent functions (think of dominant/inferior and auxiliary/tertiary as “sets”, represented by the heads vs hands above: hands do what heads signal)– call this the “peer” group. Third are the types that ONLY share two valued functions– call this “transactional” group. Lowest are the types that do not share any valued functions– call this “opposite” group. Each group has sub-criteria to determine ranking within that group.

In the soulmate group, functions in the same sets rank above functions in opposite sets; then, functions in opposite positions rank above functions in the same position.

In the peer group, shared functions in opposite positions rank highest; then, as the tiebreaker, I ranked the relationships with mirrored (Ni/Ne, etc.) leading (dom) functions higher.

In the transactional group, the subject ranks relationships differently than their partner. Relationships in which the subject’s creative (aux) function is matched or mirrored by the partner’s leading (dom) function are ranked highest; then, relationships in which the subject’s leading (dom) function is complemented (Ni/Se, etc.) or mirrored by the partner’s creative (aux) function rank higher.

In the opposite group, functions in the same sets rank highest; then, leading (dom) functions of the same orientation (i or e) rank higher.

So... what the hell does this ACTUALLY mean in MBTI terms, you ask? Let’s break it down type by type (using INFJ as example subject)

Duality: same values, same sets, opposite order; balanced strengths and weaknesses with aligned priorities (dom Ni complements dom Se, aux Fe complements aux Ti)

Identity: same values, same sets, same order; aligned priorities but unbalanced (total match, no complements)

Activation: same values, opposite sets, opposite order; balanced but priorities are misaligned (dom Ni complements aux Se, aux Fe complements dom Ti)

Mirror: same values, opposite sets, same order; misaligned priorities and unbalanced (dom Ni matches aux Ni, aux Fe matches dom Fe)

Mirage: half same values, same dependent set in opposite order; similar perspectives with balanced strengths and weaknesses (dom Ni mirrors dom Ne, aux Fe complements aux Ti)

Semi-duality: half same values, same independent set in opposite order; balanced but perspectives dissimilar (dom Ni complements dom Se)

Congenerity: half same values, same independent set in same order; unbalanced but perspectives similar (dom Ni matches dom Ni)

Cooperation: half same values, same dependent set in same order; unbalanced and perspectives dissimilar (aux Fe matches aux Fe)

Recruit: half same values, subject’s aux function mirrored by partner’s dom, dom function complemented by aux; subject’s critical function is triggered (aux Fe mirrors dom Fi, dom Ni complements aux Se, crit Fi triggered by dom Fi)

Supervisor: half same values, subject’s aux function matched; partner’s trickster function is triggered (aux Fe matches dom Fe, dom Ni triggers trix Ni)

Recruiter: half same values, subject’s dom function mirrored; partner’s critical function is triggered (dom Ni mirrors aux Ne, dom Ni triggers crit Ni)

Supervisee: half same values, subject’s dom function matched; subject’s trickster function is triggered (dom Ni mirrors aux Ni, trix Te triggered by dom Te)

Super-ego: opposite values, same sets, same orientation; two sides of the same coin (introverted doms, backwards opposites)

Extinguishment: opposite values, same sets, opposite orientation: same side of matching coins (mirror opposites)

Quasi-identity: opposite values, opposite sets, same orientation: two sides of matching coins (introverted doms, inside-out mirror)

Conflict: opposite values, opposite sets, opposite orientations: foreign currencies (inside-out and backwards mirror)

This was the hardest ask I’ve received in years, and I learned a lot while finding an answer! Thanks for the ask anon, and please send us documentation of your game. I’d love to share the finished product!

P.S. A reminder to my general followers: ALL TYPE COMBOS CAN HAVE SUCCESSFUL RELATIONSHIPS. And preferences are unique to individuals! My lived experience doesn’t match these “compatibility rankings” at all. Yes, your type dynamics will influence your relationships in loose patterns that may or may not correlate with intertype theory. Intertype relations are a tool, not a rule :)

[mbtipartyblog]

i’ve been taking the socionics test once a week to see the fluctuations. Week two, I’ve gotten the exact same result. The only difference is the number by the function listed and the second most likely type.

[sugar-petals]

Analysis Posts Masterlist

a/n. outsourcing from the main m.list that’s getting larger and larger 😄 

♡ PERSONALITY TYPING

introduction to instinctual variants

♡ PSYCHOLOGY

important psychology facts + historical experiments

advice tag

bts’ enneagram, mbti, socionics types

locus of control

on boundary issues

learned helplessness

idols and stage image

on biases

attachment styles

birth order psychology

the enneagram

love language test

♡ GENERAL

on the leadership principle in bts: unspoken leaders, introversion

♡ ALL ABOUT SUB!OT7

explaining the meaning behind bts’ harnesses

fake love — a sub!bts concept

a-z imagines/analysis

♡ INDIVIDUAL SUB!MEMBERS

tae’s puppy kink

when would hoseok not be vocal?

jin’s subby confessions

yoongi’s noona kink

on yoongi saying ‘i’m yours’ (ft jjk)

the two ways yoongi flirts

yoongi & the korean age hierarchy

yoongi likes tough women and macho men

namjoon — sub?

why people assume namjoon is a dom

about sub!rm

♡ OTHER GROUPS

got7′s femdom lyrics

sub!taeyong (on stage presence; the ‘kai effect’)

♡ ON BDSM

d/s etiquette tag

what are soft limits?

‘kink’ vs ‘fetish’

‘top/bottom’ vs ‘dom(me)/sub’

advice for d/s relationships

♡ BODY LANGUAGE

dominant hand gestures

body language of deception

self-touching gestures

assertive postures

body language of portrayal

♡ KIBBE BODY TYPING SYSTEM

addition: jungwoo

♡ SEASONAL COLOR ANALYSIS

introduction to color analysis

season typing explained with namjoon

suho’s season

yoongi’s season

dark autumn and bright spring w/ bts examples

♡ BIAS THEORY

bias theory: on what we think we lack

how your bts bias shows your potential

find your bts bias

what your bias wrecker says about you

on not being able to pick a bias

how to not get bias wrecked

jin stans and not feeling attractive/ strategies to increase esteem

joon stans and being single

biasing and greek styles of love

how your exo bias reflects you (struggles/gifts)

one’s two sides interacting in a bias and bias wrecker

when the ideal type is the idol you identify with

feeling love vs being loved back

stanning jk vs jm vs myg consecutively

last updated: mar 28, 2022

twt | ao3 | faq

[mybrainatredline]

INTP Search History Alphabet

Disclaimer: This data is not necessarily specific to the INTP type, and I’ve seen other people do it so I wanna add to the content ovo

A - Atonal music is trash

B - Business casual fashion

C - Chinese calligraphy database

D - Desmos

E - Escrow

F - Fitnessgram pacer test copypasta

G - Gymnastics open gym gymnasium

H - Hong kong news

I - IMSLP Bach Partita 3

J - Japanese N3 kanji list

K - Korean independence india

L - Lauv

M - Mbti vs socionics

N - Naver dict

O - Online piano

P - Pasta types italian

Q - Qualm

R - Rie Takahashi

S - Sugo alla genovese

T - Text to speech daniel

U - Units of mass

V - Vanilla Acoustic

W - When was air conditioning invented

X - X ray emission

Z - zachin7 (meee)

[froody-matriarch-of-bleu-cheese]

Doing some more socio reading, about introversion vs. extroversion. While I do incorporate the social version of I vs. E when typing which many other people have frowned upon when I bring it up and assume I’m a total typology n00b (perhaps there are plenty of people who are more knowledgeable in it than me but I’ve known about MBTI since later 2015 and began delving into the meat sometime in 2016, so n00b is hardly a word I’d use.) I am aware there is a difference between that and cognitive I vs. E.

In socionics, extroverts will usually take action to control their environment whereas introverts won’t. I tend to be more of a person who doesn’t shift the environment. The will of an extrovert is directed outwards, while the will of an introvert is directed inwards. 

Extroverts are concerned with objects, while introverts are concerned with the assessment of objects and events, but not with the objects themselves.

[ill-be-istj-if-no-one-else-is]

About metrics, objectivity and Te: I have typed myself as a Ti dom because my approach to solve problems/understand things seem to fit it, but something has been bothering me. That Mr ENTJ post about Te vs Ti (links aren't accepted) is a good example. Because the Ti way doesn't make nay sense to me. I don't know whether it's really biased and lacks understanding of Ti because the author is a TJ, or whether I'm not a Ti user after all. I'm an aspiring performer and while I'm perfectionist 1/3

and strive to be the best and study/train a lot I do it mainly because of my own standards and my passion. I've always been totally aware that being the best means very little in not only my field, but many others. Networking, nepotism, bribery, charisma, physical appearance, communication skills, titles: all these and more trump plain knowledge and technical talent. I'm mostly ok with that, I can see why those things are valid, can be affected by those as well. I think that whining about 2/4

how "unfair" things are is missing the point, and useless. As technical minded as I am (I spot mistakes a mile away and they bother me) I still judge success solely by numbers and objective impact. How much did it sell, what was the final profit, how many views, what ranking etc, also about how much people commented on it, the influence it had. It doesn't matter how good it is, numbers don't lie and if you don't have those, you flopped. It greatly annoys me when people refuse to accept this. 3/4

I thought it's because I'm a 3, but the more I see Te/Ti comparisons I can never side with Ti and that baffles me. It just mostly sounds divorced from reality or like it undervalues it. I though I preferred Ti because my speculation/theories don't hit a "that's not what science says" wall like Te does, I question the "Te God" statistics and I enjoy analyzing/breaking down things for fun (and I think acquiring understanding give you power). Thoughts? Is that Mr ENTJ post accurate? 4/4

-------------------------------------------

I’m assuming this is the relevant post.

Some of this might be sensing (if you typed yourself as an INTP or ENTP...you are almost certainly not one). However, STPs and ESTPs sometimes mistype as STJs because while they love figuring things out for their own sake they also appreciate the realities of the situation and objective evidence. In fact, socionics attributes some things to Se that MBTI groups in Te - there’s a lot of overlap between the two. I think Mr. ENTJ does have a pretty good understanding of Te (he likely has some bias in favor of Te; most high Te users do have a lot of frustrations with Ti, myself included, but that doesn’t mean we don’t understand how it works) but I also think it’s possible that your attitude could come from high Se accepting the reality of the situation. (Also, perhaps I’m idealistic or just in a hard STEM field where your school matters less but while it’s undoubtedly true going to a name-brand school provides people with additional opportunities, in many fields you still need to bring some talent to the table as well).

However, I think your understanding of Te might be limited and you could be a Te user. As mentioned, I’m literally a scientist, and Te doesn’t just end arguments in “that’s not what science says” because science itself is often in disagreement. Te is still open to debate and to learning things for fun - it just is more selective, and more interested in getting things done on time and on budget rather than as elegantly as possible. A healthy high Te user is willing to say “I know this doesn’t handle every contingency, but for our purposes it should be good enough and a method that would handle every contingency would be prohibitively expensive/take too long/require resources we are unlikely to have”. Ti is less willing to do that. I’m also not sure what “ ‘Te God’ statistics” means.

I can’t tell from this question whether you’re a Ti or Te user (although speaking of weird gut feelings and writing style, plus a 3 core, you sound more extroverted to me though a particularly forceful IxTJ is not out of the question), but I’d recommend you first consider ESTP, ENTJ, and ESTJ as possibilities.

[kendrixtermina]

Hi, you seem to know a lot about socionics, so let me ask you a question. Do you think it is possible to be IXXX type in MBTI and EXXx in socionics, for example INFP and IEE?

I don’t think so, since they are based on the same theoretical framework by Jung which was then independently developed both sides of the iron curtain, its both based on the jungian functions and the idea that one of those is your dominant function. 

Unlike say Enneagram or classic temperaments those are based on different frameworks and characteristics so there’s no 1-1 correspondence (though some combinations are more likely than others). It’s like describing a color by its hue vs its brightness. There’s tendencies for combinations (such as yellow generally being light/bright) but you could still to some degree use it like two coordinates. 

Whereas socionics vs mbti is more like… hm. Not exactly like different maths for the same thing though you have slightly different PoV descriptions and they disagree in some places (Such as, “Should you date someone who’s high in your inferior function, and what will be the outcome?”)

You have to keep the j/p switch in mind (mbti goes by first extroverted function, socionics by first function overall, both are IMHO legit in their own way depending on wether you want to describe decision process or outward behavior) but otherwise it’s essentially the same so where they disagree, one of them is “wrong” since they describe the same thing (the jungian functions) - insofar as that theoretical framework actually describes something in reality, that is, which is a different can of worms but we don’t need to open it to regard the whole thing as a heuristic or a descriptive characterization.

Note that there are already types that are close together (IEE being the counterpart of ENFP) If you were a sensor id probably say to go with the socionics one because the sensor descriptions are generally better (at very least for Se types) but as it stands you’d have to figure it out, it’s a small distinction so it seems more likely that this is the margin of error of the tests rather than some inherent difference in the systems. 

Overall it’s more common for ENFPs to wonder if they’re INFPs than the other way around because they’re one of the types where the extroversion is more subtle/subdued whereas IxxPs generally know they’re introverts (lots of the actual INFPs seem to get hung up on the J/P distinction instead), but of course that doesn’t mean that the other way around is completely impossible. 

Tips for distinguishing: 

a) Function Order

You probably use both Ne and Fi a lot either way but pay attention to the process. As an N dom you start with an idea or association and that’s the starting point from which your thoughts then build (”What are the implications of the idea? How do I feel about the idea? How could it be made to happen etc.)

Whereas an N-auxillary would start with their dominant function, “Well here’s an interesting inconsistency? What could its reason be…” and then Ne goes off speculating. 

b) Shadow Functions

This is primarily a socionics thing but I find it useful for contrasting. If you flip the E/I you have the exact same functions at almost the same strenghts 

Basically functions 5 and 7 are notably absent/unusable, whereas functions 6 and 8 are sorta there they’re just not something the person bases their decisions on. #7 in particular is a huge blind spot that 

In INFPs the most absent function is Se - so they’re often very civilized and non-aggressive, but don’t have much ‘stage presence’ or go-getter attitude, aren’t that connected with the physical and might miss stuff in their surroundings. 

For ENFPs it’s Ti - So often they take in a lot of new ideas but don’t really have a mechanism to sort them out and end up believing a lot of different stuff that others might find contradictory. ExFPs in general often don’t really believe in objectivity or detachment as a perspective. They might think you’re just trying to be a smartass (or will believe that’s the only motivation, even when they have in fact detected a smartass) - which, sure, no one is perfectly objective/detached but we can try. ^^°

Generally speaking INFPs are marginally more sceptical and ENFPs marginally more aggressive, and to a lesser extent a similar contrast goes on concerning Fe and Ni - Fi doms will generally a want a bit of processing time when they’re upset and a comfort attempt that comes to soon may backfire, whilst INFPs have more of an inert, ponderous quality. 

Considering the idea of Stuff INxP

i hope this was somewhat helpful, and as usual, this is the best of my understanding but im no Einstein and others might disagree with me

[sarasa-cat]

Huh. The Socionics Model A appears to answer my long standing question as to why most people find that their cognitive functions aren’t in the same “strength/usage” order as the MBTI-Beebe eight function cognitive stack, and why many people state that the inverse of their dominant and auxiliary functions are often pretty highly developed/available. As in, if they are Ti dominant or aux, Te tends to also be unconsciously developed and part of their brain tools.

For instance, say someone is an INTP in MBTI (thus, probably an TiNe/LII/INTj in Socionics). 

According to the MBTI/Beebe-based cognitive function stack, their stack is:

Ti Ne Si Fe | Te Ni Se Fi

Both MBTI and Socionics agree that this person feels more comfortable and more natural when their brain is operating in a T (logic/empiricism, etc) and N (intuition) mode. 

A basic MBTI/Beebe cognitive function model will say that the person is far more natural in Ti mode but becomes effective in the world when they harness Ne.  Socionics will go a step further to say that there are two flavors of TiNe types: those who strongly prefer Ti over Ne vs those who harness Ne far more often but who are still technically introverts, thus, they aren’t harnessing Ne to the point that they flip into an extroverted NeTi personality (MBTI: ENTP, Socionics NeTi/ILE/ENTp). 

As for that same INTP’s use of Te and NI? Well, that is where the MBTI community falls apart and doesn’t know what to say.

Okay. That is all well and good EXCEPT many people in forums, on tumblr, etc., report that they actually are pretty good at flipping the directionality of their top two cognitive functions. For instance, the INTP who takes a cog funct test and finds that their cognitive functions ranked something like this: Ti Te Ne Fe Ni Si Se Fi. Or various observations from a researcher (D. Nardi) who looked into cog functions and commented that people tend to develop their 5th and 6th along with their 1st and 2nd. Or various comments in the MBTI community that really, the whole cog func model is confusing and hasn’t been validated empirically therefore toss it and just focus on the four letter codes, such as INTP who favors N and T ... except that ends up with mush because the difference between an INTP and an INTJ all but disappears without the cognitive stack for probably 50% to 70% of these too neighboring types. 

WEEEEELLLLLLLLLLL.

Socionics uses an 8 function model that breaks the functions into four groups: 

1  Ego:  2 functions that are strong, conscious, valued, and verbal

2  Super Ego:  2 functions that are weak, conscious, not valued, not verbal

3  Super Id:  2 functions that are weak, unconscious, valued, verbal

4  Id: 2 functions that are strong, unconscious, not valued, not verbal

And socionics makes clear that the 2 Id functions are things that a person can easily do but either doesn’t see much of a point or gets bored/tired with that mode of thinking pretty quickly.

AND GUESS WHAT THEY ARE? Yes. The oppositely aligned Ego functions. So, for INTP (socionics TiNe/LII/INTj), the Ego functions are Ti and Ne. The Id functions are Te and Ni.

And that would explain why some random INTP might take a cog function test and come back with a guestimate of this strength order: “Ti Te Ne Fe Ni Si Se Fi” rather than the official MBTI/Beebe order of “Ti Ne Si Fe Te Ni Se Fi.”

Basically, in Socionics, for any type, their Id functions are their Ego functions with the introvert-extrovert directionality flipped. More examples:

FeSi Ego has FiSe Id NeFi Ego has NiFe Id Etc.

....

For a personal anecdote:

I am certain that I am an NiTe type (socionics subtypes me as strong Te) but I can easily “fake” being a NeTi. In MBTI terms, that means an INTJ who can “fake” being an ENTP. Except I really run out of steam if I have to E for too long and I end up with a rather empty, plastic, and fake feeling when I have to spend too much time pretending to be an NeTi (trust me, there are professional reasons why). On the other hand, reversing the order of my top two preferred functions to fake a TeNi type is no where near as easy as faking NeTi, probably because my Te always wants to work in service of Ni rather than vice versa?? Perhaps? Without intense method acting (and memorization) I just cannot create a believable ENTJ vibe, probably because my Te is too subordinate. 

Meanwhile, while “choose this vs that” MBTI questionnaires might pick up on my moderate I-over-Eness, when one of the official tests mistyped me as an INTP (2 decades ago), I read the description and laughed my ass off and called the whole thing -- all of MBTI -- a bunch of bullshit. Well, yeah, not only do I fail to match many aspects of the INTP MBTI type description, even though I can do TiNe but it feels convoluted AND pointless ... and boring. (I mean, at least for me. Meanwhile, you do you, okay?). NeTi feels more natural although it becomes exhausting faster than it feels pointless, but I can wear that mask when I need to (again, professional reasons, trust me). But absolutely all of this is like writing with my non-dominant hand. I can do it. But I don’t want to for more than shits and giggles and party tricks. If I need to handwrite a chapter of novel-in-progress, dominant hand please. As for my dominant brain, NiTe is literally how I get into a flow state (Ni) and then do something vaguely effective with it (Te).

Sorry about all the abstract cog funct voodoo. All of this struck me as interesting and the more I study socionics, the more I see so many of the things that the MBTI/CogFunction people have noted (loops, grip, etc.) and have observed but haven’t had good explanations for (the business described up above).

[afriendtokilltime]

Why do you prefer Socionics to MB?

The biggest reason is because of the purposes of those two systems. They both explain how people differ from one another, but socionics is built around trying to explain/define/optimize relationships and communication, while MBTI tends to focus more on business. I like to use typing systems to analyze characters and to understand people who are different from me, and I don’t hire people, so socionics is better suited to my reasons for liking types.

I like that Socionics is function-focused, whereas MBTI is dichotomy focused. MBTI does have a method for translating dichotomies to functions, but since it’s a subgroup of MBTI fans, I never know if someone who says “INFJ” means “Ni-Fe” or doesn’t. I also prefer the way socionics defines functions. Both systems are based on Jung’s 8 types/functions, and in some cases they went in very different directions. For example, Socionics Se is very focused on power, control, and manipulation, whereas MBTI Se is very focused on aesthetics, impulsiveness, and expansiveness. You can see why they come from the same root, but MBTI Se is actually more like Socionics Si. I’ve seen a lot of MBTI ENTJs end up typing as Socionics ESTP/SLE or ESFP/SEE.* Actually I’ll make another post comparing all 8.

Another thing I really like about how socionics does functions is that you have a relationship to all 8 of them–so there’s 8 “slots” and all the functions have to go in the slot. (I know Beebe’s model does something similar.) I prefer having both “dual-seek” (excellent but you suck at it) and “PoLR” (NO GOD WHY) functions rather than just “inferior function.” MBTI defines the relationship to the inferior as like…the worst of dual-seek suggestibility combined with a PoLR hit. Which is fine, but I like the socionics version more. (For example, MBTI can tell you that @randomshoes​ is surprisingly nostalgic and wants a clean, comfortable environment without knowing how to create one, but can’t tell you that she is nearly incapable of expressing affection in a serious manner. Though you could probably guess that from ENTP stereotypes without the construct of “Fi PoLR.”)

I like how over-complicated socionics is. There’s the types themselves, which have 8 different function locations to think about and understand. There’s the cognitive styles. There’s all the other Reinin dichotomies, which aren’t great for typing but are really interesting to think about how types are similar/different in surprising ways. There’s the actual intertype relations, which I’ve just got to despite them being the main point of socionics. Even though I don’t like the over-emphasis on duality, especially as a romantic goal, I do like how all the relations describe different communication issues and resolutions all relationships can have.

Pictured: extinguishment in action.

To clarify, I actually do think that on at least some level, duals probably have the best/easiest communication. Just, that doesn’t make them necessarily good romantic partners.

*A few ways to look at this: they are more accurately understood as ESxP in both systems but MBTI has a heavier anti-sensor bias; they are ENTJ in both systems but overemphasize their HA (or ESFP in both systems but overemphasize their HA), they are people who just want to be powerful and picked the most powerful type in both systems, or the types just are subtly different and don’t always line up.

[clsiel]

BISH MY BACK HURTS FROM BEING THE ONLY ONE CARRYING— sigh nvm. Thank god I'm not into socionics. That shii can make you learn english even when you don't want to. I haven't even fully understood how enneagram works.

Like it's just really hard because it was told from one people to another. So we don't know if their description about each enneagram are off or on point. And reading enneagram or mbti cognitive function theories, feels like they're heavily related to one another. So it's kinda hard? How to distinguish each cognitive funtiocs and enneagram. Like some are really distinct than the others but like Se vs Ne or Fe vs Fi. Still having a hard time tbh.

Like basically every type is capable of doing anything. Not just certain types. This is how stereotypes are generated.

Like all INFPs are depressed cry babies. Bro no, even their opposites are fully capable of being depressed and cry. Which is EXTJ.

Man I love Te doms. Why do they gotta be so hot and attractive

Usually I just read comments from PDB but I know damn well that for a fact that there's not much people into mbti stuff in kosan 95 fandom. Expanding the horizon isn't as easy as it sounds. Literally what makes me think it's a good idea to start a fan account while knowing that I might run out of ideas or having them but ended up not executing it smh.

W e l l

At least now those people who are only staying in the comment section are now together. And we can chat freely from the server. That's one thing at least. Surprised that no one has came up with the idea of reuniting the fandom up until now. OH IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYWAYS. I'VE BEEN SCREAMING ON TOP OF MY LUNG SAYING IN COMMENT SECTION IF THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT KOSAN 95 THEY CAN HMU ON MY INSTAGRAM. And then this one person suggested the exact same ideas and they got responses 😐😐

Man I'm just being salty for no reason now.

Anyway

Like they be having the most interesting insights of the story and then just ✨p O o f✨ like, don't you want to talk about it? I mean it's a good thing that y'all only talk in the comment section cuz then the episode has more comments but like. Doesn't feel so satisfying, does it?

Maybe I'll try to fix the wikifandom too. I found one for kosan 95 but it's empty. Looks like someone lost their motivation halfway through. Hopefully I won't lose it.

[infjingontheroad]

Hi :) It might come as a surprise but if you’re an INFJ your real functions are Fi-Ni-Se-Te. The “function stack” everybody takes for granted (and Socionics’) is wrong: it goes against what Jung discovered and explained, and it’s inconsistent in itself. Its “dominant” is dominant in the extraverts but auxiliary for the introverts, and its “auxiliaries” are actually diverse shadow functions. Everything got distorted because of it. I’m writing about this in my blog, if you’re interested :)

Hi, I think that these messages will only cause further confusion and misunderstandings among readers and scholars of a theory that is already very complex and debated.

Just to make this clear for the readers that are not very familiar with the history of MBTI: MBTI stands for Myers and Briggs Type Indicator and it is a development and interpretation of Jung’s original theories. Just like socionics, it is a school of thought that does not claim to hold the absolute truth about Jung’s theory. 

Jung’s original theories have a lot to do about the inferior function and as a result he did not really care about the secondary and tertiary functions: two letters were enough to tell a person’s type, that is E vs I and S,N,T or F to indicate the orientation of the dominant function, which would automatically tell the inferior as well. So I’m afraid I do not understand how Jung could say that an INFJ’s true functions are Fi-Ni-Se-Te given that he used different nomenclatures and not the whole MBTI four-function stack.   

MBTI and Jung differ on many more levels, so I would not call either one “wrong”: they’re just different and cannot be so easily compared or evaluated. 

I’ve looked at your blog and I think that sentences like “if you see a name other than Jung next to the types, that’s not the original source” are naive at best. The world of academia and the world of social sciences is constantly changing and progressing because that is the way knowledge works. Saying that any cognitive function theory that is not quoting 100% from Jung is wrong is simplistic and of little use to anyone actually trying to discover more about themselves.

If you do not appreciate Myers and Briggs’ work and like to refer to Jung and Jung’s theories only then do as you prefer, but know that MBTI, socionics and Jung’s theories are, by now, three completely different theories who developed distinctively over the years from the knowledge and intuitions of different people. Neither Myers nor Briggs “stole” anything from Jung or claimed to have discovered something entirely new: theories are just meant to be developed by the people who come after the original thinker. You think that Jung was not inspired by anyone? His words on the inferior functions are heavily inspired by Freud, who was in turn inspired by Ghoete, Heine and many others.

It is just counter-intuitive to confront a 1921 book by Jung with MBTI theories that date back to the second half of the 20th century and expect them to agree with Jung or repeat the exact same things. Also why do you use the word MBTI in this table? You claim that they are just copying and distorting Jung’s theory, so why would you refer to Jung’s Types as MBTI Types?

I will agree that MBTI and cognitive function theories are getting more and more difficult to access because of widespread misinformation about them and poorly written resources, but just like so I do not believe that the answer to this confusion lies in books that were written at a time when Scientific Racism was still considered legitimate. 

From the amount of self-typed content on your blog, you seem like an intelligent and passionate person and I cannot understand why you would cling so forcefully to a theory that has been proven faulty at times and aggressively reproach those people that, loving Jung’s theories at least as much as you do, tried to modernize and develop them to keep his legacy alive. 

I invite you to get more in touch whit reliable sources about modern cognitive function theory. I could not find recent scholarly publications about the claims you make and therefore I stand with the MBTI ones I already know and trust and that have proven reliable over the years.