#st4 theory

[vintagecxctus]

being gay isn’t a choice. one day you just hear tender, emotional music start playing.

[itswhatyougive]

Something that's been bothering me is a small detail in ST4 set design, specifically Eddie's trailer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the only place I remember seeing prominently displayed laundry baskets full of dirty clothes, both in the Right Side Up and Upside Down versions of the trailer.

I keep thinking back to Eddie's pointed comment to Jason Carver in the very first episode of S4, about basketball being a game where you "toss balls into laundry baskets". They drove that line home even further by having Dustin repeat it back to Eddie at the cafeteria table.

It's giving me this nagging feeling that Jason and Eddie have more history than we're led to think.

Eddie said it with such bitterness and anger, loud enough that he wanted Jason to take the bait, which he did.

The latest chapters of Hellfire in ST Puzzle Tales also reinforce the fact that Eddie is very very touchy about basketball and the basketball team. He calls it "gross" and he doesn't even want to see Lucas wearing his basketball jacket. It seems oddly "personal", this chip on his shoulder about basketball and Jason.

Do they have some kind of shared history? Is it meant literally, do the laundry baskets have some kind of significance? The Upside Down version of the trailer is stuck in 1983, is it possible three years ago or more Jason used to come over there for some reason? Or is it a figurative thing?

Part of me thinks that new Eddie Munson book that's coming out will have something about Jason in it. Flight of Icarus is set in 1984, so possibly after whatever history he and Jason had. Eddie would be a senior (first time) at Hawkins High School and Jason would've been a sophomore.

[stevesbanana]

Stranger Things Incorrect Quotes:

Billy: “We are not gonna cry over a guy that doesn’t know what y=mx+b means”

Y/n: “Do you?”

Billy: “This isn’t about me.”

[steveeatsbats]

EVEN IF STEDDIE ISN'T CANON (yet 😩😩😩) JOE AND JOE SHIP IT BECAUSE JUST LOOK AT THEIR ACTING

ST4 SPOILERS

That scene in the upside-down when they're talking abt being mentors for Dustin 😭 Steve was LITERALLY just- LOOK

THIS IS NOT STRAIGHT MALE BEHAVIOR

[stevesbipanic]

The Duffer Brothers really messed up splitting season 4 into two cause they had to sit for a month reading all our theories and just be like...shit that would've been a cool idea.

[phantypurple]

Let me say something about Eddie Munson's dead. IT IS WEIRD.

Come on, you spent a hole season trying to save him. He becomes friends with them, fights with them, he even sacrifices himself for them when he specifically was told not to by Steve... And no one cares? I mean, he dies in Dustin's arms, and that's ok. But after that, no one cares. Not a single comment between the caracters. The only thing about Eddie is because Dustin saw his uncle suffering for him?. But that's all. Not sad faces, not a single comment between the group. I mean, they are not even sad that they could not save him, and that everybody else thinks he is a murderer? And how they reacted when Dustin told them he is dead? Where is the body? Did they really left him there? Like... Really?

It feels so out of characters...

I dont know. What makes me really sad is that they are like nothing happened with Eddie.

Which i can only think of 2 options.

1. He is not really dead, and he will come back. (And that's why they are ok, because they already know)

Or

2. They did a terrible job with his death.

[screechwhisper]

Vampire!Eddie Vampire!Eddie Vampire!Eddie Vampire!Eddie Vampire!Eddie Vampire!Eddie Vampire!Eddie Vampire!Eddie

[beepboop358]

thinking...

[felixhaven]

UM HELLO WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THIS??

ik the duffers confirmed eddie is dead but like IMAGINE

[joekeeryrealgirlfriend]

when you realize that the reason steve cares sm for the kids is because he wants them to feel cared for since his parents never cared for him

[vintagecxctus]

everyone is apologizing for the person they’ll become tomorrow. i do not apologize. i will be the most obnioxoius bitch you’ve ever met and i will not be sorry for it.

[midsummerevening]

I don’t know if this parallel has been done before or not but I was rewatching ST season 2 and this Jancy scene made me think of the Byler fight at Rink O Mania

At the motel room, Nancy asks to Jonathan what happened, then she clarifies: “to us.”. Which, now that I’m thinking about it, reminds me of Will’s “What about us?” in the scene at the rink.

Then Nancy explains that after everything they had been through, Jonathan just “disappeared”, gave her no sign of life, didn’t speak to her, call her or anything. He just went… silent.

This is pretty much what both Mike and Will accuse themselves of. Will argues that Mike only called “maybe a couple times” while Mike blames Will for not reaching out more to him. That he should have had, else they wouldn’t be in that situation.

Which, again, makes me think of the Jancy scene. After Jonathan states that his disappearance had to do with looking after Will and Steve still being in the picture, Nancy says that she waited. Waited for Jonathan to reach out to her, but he never did.

And isn’t that what happened with Mike and Will? Both of them waiting for the other to do something. Will waiting on Mike to call him, Mike waiting on Will to reach out. They wanted to talk to each other, that much is obvious. Just like it is for Nancy and Jonathan.

One more thing. Both Mike and Nancy reproach Will and Jonathan for disappearing so suddenly. Both of them also take it badly when the criticism turns on them. Mike exclaims “Why is this on me? Why am I the bad guy?” with what looks frustration mixed with anger (though he totally deflects upon seeing Will’s face afterwards). While Nancy completely shuts down after Jonathan replies quite sarcastically “For like only a month” to her “I waited.” She changes the topic by asking him to turn off the light, similarly to Mike who redirects the conversation to continuing their search of El at the rink.

Both Mike and Nancy turn their back to Will and Jonathan as the scene finishes.

Edit: It also seems crazy to me that a year passed by between the end of S1 and that Jancy scene at the motel (We know that thanks to El counting the days). Meanwhile, only six months went by between the moment Will left Hawkins and the fight at the rink, yet Will makes it sound like it was a year ago. (“It’s been a year, Mike!”). Interesting, right?

[robin-buck1ey]

I REPEAT THIS IS A CODE RED A CODE RED

[buckleupbrochachos]

v2 theory

Saw a post saying that when Will gets tranced, El might use her powers to go into his mind, and she'll see what pain he's going through- which is already sad as it is BUT- what if, when El sees all the memories, she sees the arguments Will has had with Mike, the castle byers scene, the "not possible" scene, the movie theatre scene, and all their conversations after Mikes apology in s4v1- she realizes she doesn't really love Mike the way Will does.

This would be PERFECT for her character arc. Her finally learns the difference between platonic and romantic love, that she doesn't need nor want a romantic relationship with Mike, because she obviously cares for Mike a lot enough for them to have a platonic relationship.

I don't know if that makes sense- but I just think it's a really cool idea/theory. :)

[sevensided]

I am strongly convinced that Will is the key to Vol. 2... and he might even be the antagonist of S5. Hear me out.

Will is the conduit between reality and the Upside Down. It is extremely significant that S04E07 so heavily featured 1983 as a place of 'beginning': not only did the story start here, but I think this is where it will end too.

S4 played continually with the idea of history and time. I posited during the hiatus that the clock motif was about a 'time's up' and I think this will resonate throughout the rest of the story. The fact that we've returned to where it all began makes me think that once Will returns to Hawkins, everything is going to accelerate.

For one, although we have El back to her full strength, Vecna is equally powerful and he's altered since she last faced off with him. The moment Will enters Hawkins he will be a target for Vecna - and I wouldn't be surprised if Will ends up becoming a vessel for the Mind Flayer once more. This was foreshadowed in an early S4 episode where Eddie was described as 'the vessel ... for the devil', which could indicate that Will - who has already been a vessel - resumes that role again for the show's climax.

As for Mike and Will, I have a few theories. The first is that Mike will have to choose between El and Will, and whoever he chooses will be the person he's loved all along. The second is that I wouldn't be surprised if Will goes missing (again!), Mike finds the painting, the penny drops, and he realises how much Will means to him. The groundwork has been laid for Mike to have an epiphany about their friendship, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a parallel between Will's 'so stupid' photograph moment and Mike looking at the painting Will has made him. It would be a neat way to tie those stories together, particularly as you could argue that Will looking at the photograph in S3 was a trigger scene for the audience to recognise that perhaps Will had romantic feelings for Mike.

The last theory about the Upside Down/Will as a vessel/Mike and Will is that I think Mike is the only person who can bring Will 'back'. This is purely running with the idea that Will will be possessed by the Mind Flayer and will surpass Vecna in power/ferocity to become the last Big Bad/antagonist of the story. Will says as much in S4 when he reminds Mike that no one else brought him back - the Party, and specifically Mike, did.

As for the thematic continuity and symbolism of Will being the final antagonist, I believe it makes a lot of sense for the story to begin and end with him. He has been the key all along. If you wanted to really lean into the theory, you could argue that Will embodies the Chekhov's gun, because he's been sidelined for S3-4 despite being prominent in S1-2. Everyone's forgotten about him - he is consistently represented as being alone, isolated. In other words, everyone, including the audience, has forgotten how pivotal he is to the story. In S4, when Mike says that whatever happens, they need to be a team, it's a return to their bond in S1-2. It is them against the world.

[gargoylepuke999]

what if will reads into mike as much as we read into them

“he gave her flowers- wait yellow flowers, so is he dumping her? no way, she wouldnt know what that meant… what if he wants me to think he doesnt like her anym- but what if he wants me to think that? what if he knows I like him and actually hates me for it… holy fuck I can’t tell him ever. but he said crazy together, right? whatever the fuck happened to crazy together? we’re not going crazy together, hes just driving me fucking insane. but what if he wants me to think hes trying to drive me crazy on purpose to hide his true emotions? what if he hates himself for being gay? oh shit, I better tell him its alright. but what if hes not and I out myself to him on accident? fuck fuck. fuck. FUCK. FU-“