#symposium of post-mysticism

[inversionimpulse]

I think Akyuu may not like Sanae very much

[ashenmind]

Marisa, you worry me sometimes

[frierenburger]

great advice

[waffliesinyoface]

A New Business in the End-of-Year Rush

Is this the outbreak of a Christmas business war?

Things are always busy around the end of the year, but that's what makes it such a profitable time for businesses. And it seems that a new competitor has arrived. Many are well aware of "Christmas" by now. It's an event where a foreign saint called Nicholas comes, flying in the air as he whips his animals, sneaking into houses legally while the owner is asleep. This open-minded event has already become a fad in the outside world, and it looks like there are already signs of it appearing in Gensokyo as well. Ms. Seiga Kaku (hermit) seeks to make a business out of this fad. She says that with her ability to go through walls at will, she is planning to sneak into human houses. "During Christmas, everyone buys toys from Santa Claus (St. Nicholas), and he sneaks in to deliver them. That's how it works in the outside world. I guess it's an event that gathers faith from children." But Seiga claims that it isn't enough: "Why should we believe in some white-beard old man, especially when we don't even know if he's in Gensokyo in the first place? That's why everyone has such a hard time selling toys. So, I decided that I'm going to sell the toys directly to the owner, or, if they're asleep, I'll just take something that looks valuable." With that, she showed me a bag stuffed full with her treasure. Her service seemed rather prosperous indeed. Humans and hermits should be expecting a heated battle around Christmastime. Incidentally, St. Nicholas is known for his white beard, but when it comes to white beard in Gensokyo, we tend to picture Sarutahiko. Since he is also the god of us tengu, it wouldn't be good for him to develop a negative image. We just hope she will not conduct her Christmas business while wearing a white beard. -Aya Shameimaru

[askdacast]

one of my dreams is being able to write a paper/ethnography on media portrayals of youkai/folklore/the fantastic in Japan and use that as an excuse to talk about Touhou in an extended format

I think Symposium of Post-Mysticism alone is worthy of such an analysis

[anueutsuho]

I wonder how Sanae would feel finding out that Kanako did literally what she hated Reimu doing

[miraclemaya]

remi is one of the best white girls, she is likely the person who killed so many people that youkai were banned from hunting the villagers (and i think also led to the creation of spell card rules)

[creature-wizard]

What advice would you give to someone new to witchcraft or curious about starting their journey?

Quite a bit, I hope you don't mind a long post!

Make sure your ingredients and stuff aren't toxic to you or your pets. Essential oils, certain stones, many herbs, and so on can be extremely harmful if used improperly.

If you're going to use candles, research candle and fire safety.

Certain mystical practices/views can potentially create issues with certain mental illnesses. EG, anxiety can make you prone to thinking everything is a sign. OCD can make you prone to worrying whether you've offended the gods/spirits. This doesn't mean you shouldn't practice, it just means that you should be aware of how your mental illnesses impact your beliefs and thoughts.

Nothing is absolutely essential. Anyone who tells you that there's some item or herb you must have is probably trying to sell you something.

Aesthetic is cool and also useful for getting into the right headspace.

There are many models and theories of magic. Some people are very certain that their model is the One True Model, but there's always going to be someone whose own experience says otherwise.

Magical practitioners of the past improvised and made it up as they went along, too. (I say "magical practitioners" because very few of them would have actually called themselves "witches.")

Be aware that you're going to run into a lot of pseudohistory. The witch cult hypothesis had a huge influence on the modern witchcraft movement, and some people still cling to it. There's a lot of people still claiming that Christmas and Easter were stolen from pagans. Many people anachronistically project modern magical models onto the past. Some people believe this because it's just what they heard somewhere; some people believe it because they're conspiracy theorists. You can't entirely avoid it, but you can learn to recognize it. YouTube channels like Angela's Symposium, ReligionForBreakfast, and ESOTERICA are great places to start learning about actual religious and occult history.

You can also get better at recognizing conspiracy theories by learning their most common tropes. I wrote about them in this post and this post.

The whole concept of cultural appropriation isn't about policing what people do, and anyone who tries to use it that way is being a dick. It's about respecting marginalized cultures' boundaries and not depriving them of money, goods, etc. See this post for more information.

[sukimas]

Hold the phone what the hell is this. What the Hell is this?

So this is a Kakashi Spirit News article in Symposium of Post-Mysticism, right? When I read it for the first time, I was like, oh, huh, interesting, Iku and co. are straight, and moved on with my life.

But: 婚活 is not husband-hunting. It's spouse hunting. There is no attached gender. Later in the article this is mentioned:

Can you guess what word Touhou Wiki translated as "gentleman"? 紳士? Perhaps 男?

It's 人間. "Human." Again, no gender attached whatsoever. Now, you might be saying "yes there's no denotation saying these words are attached to a man, but there might be connotations?" And in regards to that, I have to note one thing: There is exactly one unambiguous mention of the word "husband".

It's in discussing the previous legend that the girls are emulating (the tale Tanabata's based on, by the way.) There is zero reference to husbands in what the girls are currently doing.

In conclusion: What the hell? It doesn't matter if you're not into shipping or any such things. There's no reason to translate something explicitly gender neutral in regards to relationships (despite many opportunities Not to be gender neutral) as being heterosexual except homophobia.

[occasionaltouhou]

This is half-Touhou half-"how does belief make youkai", but how would creepypastas/urban legends that are primarily based on interactions through digital mediums work? Would those just be stories still, or would they spawn youkai that exist primarily on the internet? How would haunted game cartridges work? I may be remembering incorrectly, but I definitely remember reading that tsukumogami cannot form in electronic items due to said electricity.

they discuss exactly this in symposium of post-mysticism! the answer is that those things could exist, but there aren't enough people who actually believe that they're happening; in the same way that youkai require both belief and faith, when you hear an urban legend, you know it's fake, but you go "it'd be cool if it was real, though". that's actually why the urban legend incident was so anomalous - they shouldn't have been able to manifest, not because they're outside world stories, but because the belief in them is negligible to begin with

and idk where that thing about electricity came from? you're possibly thinking of a bit from that same discussion in sopm where they talk about outside world youkai who can't manifest. but that's nothing to do with electricity. for tsukumogami especially all it takes it lasting 100 years and having a grudge - it's just that most electrical devices aren't that old yet. but you could easily have some early-1900s techno-tsukumogami

the medium is irrelevant, also; you don't get verbal youkai from verbal stories. if enough people believe it's a thing that might exist, then it begins to exist. if enough people genuinely believe in slenderman, he will become real in the real world. for instance.

[spear-gsun]

I got a physical copy of Symposium of Post Mysticism!

I did not expect it to be a hardback, it even has a bookmark ribbon!

Also important (for me)

Them

[inversionimpulse]

Akyuu that seems awfully specific and makes me think you might've gone and done that yourself

[ashenmind]

As long as you’re having fun, Marisa.

[msgameandcake]

A very strange quote about Sanae from Symposium of Post-mysticism is "Unfortunately, she lacks in knowledge about the outside world. No one has been able to learn about any newer technology or gain any new information about the outside world from her." with the additional note of "According to her, 'I'm telling you, everyone's like this.'"

Her story in Unthinkable Natural Law is founded on her being familiar with the tropes of Mecha Anime, which would imply she at least knows about TV. She was stated to be good at math and science in school. She goes on to talk about some elements of irl space travel in Touhou 15. She was the one who suggested to perform the nuclear fusion experiment in Gensokyo because the fantastical nature of the realm could potentially allow it to succeed where the conventional reality of the Outside World resulted in those experiments failing, and she was right about its success! Kanako intends on becoming a goddess of technology specifically because it was replacing her function as a god.

By all accounts, Sanae knows a decent bit about technology. The SoPM quote is framed as though the implication is Sanae is clueless about modern technological progress and was functionally already living in ancient Japan while in the Outside World. Like, I guess she'd be Japanese Amish or something? However, given the knowledge she has displayed throughout the series, the implication becomes reversed. Even though they functionally live in ancient Japan, the people of Gensokyo apparently know enough about the modern technology of the Outside World that Sanae, who has displayed knowledge of telecommunications, nuclear power, and space travel, didn't have anything new to teach them.

Maybe this was an early idea for the character, but ZUN decided to take her characterization in a different direction as time went on. Maybe she really didn't know about outside world technological progress, but in working towards becoming a goddess of technology Kanako began teaching Sanae about such innovations over time. Maybe there is something major I'm missing here and every interpretation I've brought up is fundamentally off somehow. Its all just a bit odd to me.

[askdacast]

Just re-read Symposium of Post-Mysticism. Man, it's such a weirdly timeless book, and equally insightful no matter whether you read it as a simple lore book or purposeful commentary on real life.

Also, Miko is really mean, and Kanako is really sassy. Poor Byakuren.

The only thing I ever had complaints about - and still do - is how the three big leaders define religion. Both Miko and Byakuren define it as a philosophy, whereas Kanako defines it as a system of understanding the world with its own internal rules, much like science and magic/the occult. Kanako gets it closer than the other two imo, but all three focus on the idea of religion as being an individual pursuit, rather than also being a system that creates and structures cultures. Which is ironic, considering how much Kanako keeps talking about the transactional relationship between humans and gods, and how all three keep talking about how their presence determines the fate of humans, youkai and Gensokyo!

ZUN is both a STEM guy at heart and as far as everyone knows non-religious, but he always has a lot to say about our modern world's relationship with the unknown and the supernatural, and that's what makes Touhou so strangely insightful. Nevertheless, the dichotomy between the individual and the collective in what constitutes religious practice is a very modern idea, and equally reflective of the new ideals of contemporary society. It feels a lot like SoPM is just as reflective of ZUN's (and our own) modern ideas of what religion means to us, or what the supernatural means to us now in an age of rationalism. I could be talking nonsense here, given that I'm not the Japanese-born person making video games about Japanese culture (and come to think of it ZUN is not wrong in describing general trends regarding the supernatural in Japan). But it still seems like ZUN/Kanako almost underestimate the power of belief in people when they mention humans' wish for the supernatural despite no longer "believing" in them. New religions/cults exist, and are powerful. Belief itself is no longer a straight dichotomy of "I believe/don't believe this is real," especially not with youkai and other supernatural creatures which have created such popular followings and ways of consumption.

Or, you know, the three leaders were purposely written to be arrogant and not really understanding humans. That's also a running gag in the text.

[anueutsuho]

What do you mean you don't understand? Marisa, you start fights out of sheer curiosity all the time.