#the context makes it better so read the book in the Bible if you want to learn more

[princess-of-cuteness]

Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'

John 14:6

[tyrantisterror]

Who's THE Devil?

You know, from, like, The Bible?

One of the things the various takes on Hell more or less agree on is that there is one demon among the legions of Hell who more or less reigns supreme - The Devil with a capital The. What they rarely agree on, however, is which devil that is. So, for funsies, let's look at all the candidates for The Devil, shall we?

Belial

The concept of demons arguably predates Abrahamic religions, at least if we take it at its most nebulous definition of "supernatural people from an Other world who are somewhat antagonistic toward humanity." But the more specific and probably more familiar version of them began with The Book of Enoch, one of many texts that were deemed non-canonical by Christians yet still holds a great deal of influence on Christianity as a whole. It's an extended account of the Noah story, positing that a group of angels rebelled against heaven because they wanted to sleep with mortal women, and created a race of giant half-human half-angel offspring called the Nephilim (Goliath, of David and Goliath fame, was one of the nephilim). God wasn't happy with this, and sent the rebel angels to a fiery pit before killing most of the nephilim with the big ol' flood (though Goliath's lineage survived somehow I guess).

It's not quite how most people picture the War in Heaven and rebellion of the angels, but it's nonetheless where that story started, and that makes it important. This is the first take on what would become the classic origin story for demons and Hell itself. And who is the leader of the rebel angels in this story? Why our good friend Belial, of course. Belial would remain a prominent demon from hereafter, but despite having the earliest claim for the crown of The Devil, Belial has not remained the frontrunner in the race, and is generally demoted to just being a high ranking demon, rather than the Highest ranking one.

2. Beelzebub

I've talked about Beelzebub before and I don't want to spend too much time rehashing that post, so brief recap: Beelzebub began as a mean nickname for a god from a rival religion to Judaism who was named Baal Zebul, which means Lord of the Heavenly Place. Baal Zebub, by contrast, means "Lord of the Flies." Eventually Baalzebub becomes Beelzebub and, divorced from the original context of its creation, becomes a character in his own right, being a prominent demon. And because Beelzebub appeared in a lot of texts, many of them very old as demonology go, he became a major competitor for the title of The Devil, and remains so to this day. I think it's partly because the name "Beelzebub" is really fun to say, but the sheer history and volume of demonology texts portraying him as a big, powerful devil also help. In the rare stories where Beelzebub appears but does not get to be The Devil, he's still portrayed as fairly high ranking, with both Milton's Paradise Lost and Marlowe's Faust making him The Devil's right hand demon, second in command of Hell. So even when he loses the crown, Beelzebub takes home a good silver medal

3. Asmodeus

Asmodeus is another of our "predates Christianity" demons, right up there with Beelzebub and Belial, and as far as I can tell from what I've read he was originally intended to be The Devil rather than just a devil. It's kind of right there in the name - "deus" means god, so Asmodeus having that name marks him as a demon who thinks himself equal to God.

(well, ok, there's some debate about the full origin of his name, with some arguing the "deus" part was originally a play on "deva," which in turn is loosely translated as... demon. The fact that Asmodeus's name is pronounced/spelled differently to a preposterous degree is part of why the water is so muddy - Asmoday, Asmodai, Asmodee, Osmodeus, it goes on and on)

One of his better claims to the crown comes from the story of Solomon - you know, the wise king who told people to cut babies in half. Solomon's less canonical feats include enslaving a shitload of demons to build a temple for him by way of the rite of exorcism, using a magic ring and the power of Christ to compel the damned to do manual labor for him. Asmodeus is specifically stated to be the strongest demon he summons in part because he is the King of all Demons, i.e. The Devil - and the other demons weep at the sight of their king being reduced to a slave by mortal hands.

Why is this a strong claim? Because the story of Solomon in turn inspired The Lesser Key of Solomon, a text about using the rite of exorcism to summon and use demons to do your bidding. The Lesser Key of Solomon includes the Ars Goetia, which is basically a big ol' bestiary of demons, and where many of your favorite pop culture demons - like, say, Stolas the owl guy - come from. Being the King of all demons in the story that inspired one of the more thorough and exhaustive lists of demons and their hierarchies should count for a lot.

There's one other great claim to fame Asmodeus has in his favor. While not directly named in Dante's The Divine Comedy, the description Dante gives of Satan's physical appearance matches with the most popular descriptions of Asmodeus - in particular, his three heads, one of which is yellow, one red, and one black. Granted, it'd be more of a smoking gun if one of those heads was a bull and the other a goat, but they're all very ogre-like, so I still think it stands. Dante's Devil is, more likely than not, Asmodeus, and that's a BIG point in Asmodeus's favor.

4. Hades/Pluto

Ok, so, a great deal of the Old Testament was originally written in Greek, and the New Testament was written in Latin, both of which happened when belief in the Olympian Gods was pretty strong. As such, the word "Hades" appears in the Bible a lot when talking about the place where dead people go, though it probably wasn't meant to literally be the same underworld as that in Greco-Roman mythology. Probably.

But because Christianity was spread primarily by the Roman empire once they converted to Christianity, and because Europe ended up getting a centuries-long case of stockholm syndrome for the Roman Empire that involved many people in power declaring that Greco-Roman mythology was super important literature and Latin was the language of God Himself, there is a good chunk of Biblical apocrypha that treats the use of Hades as, well, a literal crossover of sorts. Which is to say that Hades the god is sometimes treated as, like, a figure in Christianity, generally a demon specifically. And because he's, you know, Hades, from, like, The Odyssey, people feel he needs to be prominent. I mean, Hades RULED the underworld in Greek mythology, so if we're stealing him for Christian folklore, he should at least be in upper management, right?

The strongest case for Hades being The Devil comes from The Book of Revelation, one of the few books in the Bible that actually contributes to demonology (despite what people tell you, demons really don't show up in the Bible that much - most of what we think of as iconic demon lore come from non-canonical works). You know the four horsemen of the apocalypse? War, Famine, Plague, and Death, right? HA, WRONG! It's Conquest, War, Famine, and Pestilence & Death, you fake horseman fan. Well, anyway the line that introduces Death/Pestilence & Death ends with "And Hell followed with him." Except, no, not really, because the specific word used is... Hades. "And Hades followed with him." Which, depending on how you want to interpret the line, could very well mean a literal, King of the Underworld Hades.

Of course, the problem with using Revelation as proof is that Revelation itself is pretty unclear on who's leading the forces of evil. Is it the Seven-Headed dragon who's cast out of Heaven at the beginning of the end of the world? Is it the seven headed leopard monster that the dragon gives his crown to? Is it the monster who crawls out of the ground to speak for the seven-headed leopard with the voice of a dragon? Is it Hades? Is it God, the one who's allowing all this violent shit to happen and frequently sending his angels to make it way fucking worse? Who can say.

So, while it's not super common, there are more than a few works where The Devil is none other than Hades himself. Disney... might not have been completely off the mark, I guess?

While I think Hades's claim is pretty weak, I should note that one of the works that puts a LOT of Greek mythology into Hell is none other than Dante's The Divine Comedy. 70% of the demons in Dante's Hell are just Greek monsters, with the remaining few being Asmodeus and some OC demons he made up with portmanteu names a la Pokemon. Notably, Hades is one of those demonized Greek figures - presented as the Judge who decides where in Hell sinners end up based on their crimes. He's not The Devil, though, so while Dante kind of helps Hades's case, he also kind of ends up making a counter argument to it.

5. Abaddon/Apollyon

Ok, so, the word "abaddon" is used in some texts to refer to Hell, and sometimes it's personified as well. It literally means "ruin." Well, in time, Abaddon is personified and become a demon, which should feel like a familiar story to you by this point. And because Abaddon can also literally be Hell itself, it's only natural that some stories posit Abaddon the demon as the rule of Hell, much as Hades is the ruler of Hades in Greek mythology. This is Abaddon's big claim, and it's not bad, but it's not super strong. Nonetheless, it was enough for at least one prominent Christian text, Pilgrim's Progress, to make Abaddon (under one of his synonym names, Apollyon) to be The Devil, so we can give him that too.

6. Sheol

The sections of the Bible that are written in Hebrew use the word "Sheol" to refer to the underworld/afterlife rather than Hades. Now, Judaism doesn't have the same Hell as Christianity, or the same concept of Heaven either for that matter, and Sheol is less a place of torment for the damned and more of a waiting room for the dead to hang out in until the Messiah comes.

Nonetheless, Sheol did get personified like Abaddon and Hades, and that personification (which, in some versions, is a batty old lady, which is fun) later became a demon in its own right, and thus, for the same reasons as Abaddon and Hades, has a claim to being The Devil by dint of also being, you know, Hell itself. Not the strongest, most popular claim, no, but a claim nonetheless.

7. Satan

Feels rather obvious, doesn't it? Ok, so, in The Bible, one of the characters who was retconned into being The Devil is the angel in the Book of Job who takes on the title of Satan. In the original context of the story, "Satan" is not a name, but, again, a title - a job title, really, roughly akin to "prosecuting attorney." The Satan in the Book of Job isn't a rebel angel, but an angel whose job is to argue for the opposing view point to make sure everyone is doing the right thing. Less "The Devil" and more "the devil's advocate."

But! Christians fucking LOVE the devil, and they want more devil in their Bible, so many translations treat (the) Satan not as the hard-working servant of God he was originally written as, but as, you know, The Devil, arch-enemy of God and justice. And so Satan becomes synonymous with The Devil, and over time more and more appearances of The Devil give him the name Satan.

I can see an argument for this being the strongest claim, because the sheer amount of works where "Satan" is treated as The name of The Devil is enormous. But I think it's important to note that many of those works actually treat it as a name for the devil, which is to say, not the only name. I guess a lot of modern works think the name is so commonly used that it lacks its punch, and so they have The Devil pull the "I have many names" schtick to sound more imposing.

8. Lucifer

So there's a part of the Bible that talks about a star falling out of Heaven as a sort of metaphor for how people can fall from grace. Well, good ol' King James translated this as not just a falling star, but specifically The Devil himself, giving him the name Lucifer, which means "light-bringer." The King James translation of the Bible is bad in that it's immensely inaccurate, but good in that it's a beautiful piece of poetry in its own right, and since it had the authority of a goddamn king behind it, it quickly became a prominent Christian text and is still the preferred translation of many Christian sects to this day.

So, you know, that's pretty fucking big as claims go. There is one incredibly prominent (if woefully inaccurate) translation of the Bible where Lucifer is The Devil. Kind of hard to fight that one.

But it doesn't end there! I would argue that the most influential origin story for Christian devils, the one that has become ingrained in the cultural consciousness as THE story of the War in Heaven, is Milton's poem Paradise Lost. That's where most of the tropes we associate with The Devil and demons and Hell really come together to form the great devil mythology - well, it and Dante's The Divine Comedy, anyway. You know which name Milton chose for The Devil?

Lucifer.

Well, ok, he also calls Lucifer "Satan" with about equal frequency, but still - Lucifer is The Devil of Paradise Lost. And because of the sheer weight that both Paradise Lost and the King James Bible have in culture, Lucifer has ended up being used as The Devil in countless works since! Not bad for a translation error, right?

While the sheer number and notability of literature that uses Lucifer as The Devil is kind of argument enough for him having the best claim, I'd like to add one more argument in his favor: dramatic irony. I think what draws people to Lucifer is the meaning of his name - "the light-bringer" - and how it contrasts with his role as the king of a pit of darkness and misery. "Light-bringer" is a heroic name, the name of a character who brings hope and joy, which makes it so delicious when it turns out our "light-bringer" is an utter bastard. It's just irresistible, isn't it?

9. Mephistopheles

A good number of demon stories - arguably the majority of them - focus on mortals who make deals with demons and end up damned to Hell for doing it. We call these stories "faustian pacts," and we do that because the most famous story of this kind is the story of Faust, a scientist/alchemist who makes a deal with a devil named Mephistopheles to learn the secrets of the universe and ends up doing a lot of sinning in the process. Since Faust is such a famous and influential story, it only follows that its main devil is frequently viewed as The Devil.

...except

In most versions of Faust, Mephistopheles is not presented as The Devil within the narrative. He's a henchman, a flunkie, with one of the bigger names like Lucifer or Beelzebub pulling the strings. So while there are a number of stories (including a few versions of Faust itself) where Mephistopheles gets to be The Devil, it's far more common for him to be a devil - perhaps a prominent devil, maybe even one of the strongest and a close member of The Devil's inner circle, but rarely the one in charge.

10. Baphomet

Baphomet is a god whose name and appearance was repurposed as a demon by The Church of Satan, and so while I have to admit that is a claim to the crown, I don't think it's a great one. First, nothing about the Church of Satan's belief system is meant to be taken genuinely, with them admitting that they view Satan/Baphomet as a symbol rather than a literal supernatural being they believe in. Second, by rights Baphomet should be allowed to be Baphomet instead of being literally demonized. I honestly think it's better for Baphomet to lose this race than to win it.

11. Iblis

Demons in Islam work differently from demons in Christianity. Rather than being fallen angels, demons are wicked Djinn - a race of people made from fire and smoke rather than ash and dirt like humans. Djinn aren't quite as powerful as angels in Islam, but do have significant supernatural powers that humans lack. Like humans, Djinn have free will and can choose whether to be good or evil - and those that choose to be evil reside in Islam's version of Hell, where they are ruled by Iblis, the first Djinn to choose the wicked path and the ruler of Islam's Hell.

Unlike Christianity, there isn't really any debate on this. Iblis is, for all intents and purposes, the CANONICAL ruler of Hell, The Devil of Islam, and thus has the strongest and really ONLY claim to be The Devil of that religion.

...but, at the same time, Iblis can't really be the Christian devil, because Christianity doesn't have Djinn, and all the iconic parts of Christian demonology kind of hinge on the idea of demons as rebel angels, which demonic djinn very much aren't. So while Iblis's claim in Islam is irefutable, he doesn't have one in Christianity. Ain't that wacky?

I think it should be noted that there are more-or-less canonical texts where Iblis isn't treated as purely evil, either, including one where he actively asks for help in repenting and is turned down because, well, evil has to exist, and someone has to rule over it, and like it or not, that's Iblis's job now. It ends with Iblis wailing that he has become the greatest martyr of Islam. Which is so fucking hardcore, I love it. In Christianity, the texts where we humanized demons are non-canonical at best and deemed heresy at worst, but Islam allowed it to be more-or-less canon. They saw the coolest takes on the Devil and said "yeah we can allow that" - so much more rad than what Christianity did with them.

~

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So, who do YOU think is The Devil? You know, from, like, The Bible?

[irrealisms]

diptych || a c!crimeboys web weave

[sources and IDs under cut]

The first collage is a collection of 14 images.

Image 1: A human hands a raccoon a gun. It is the same image CC!Wilbur sent CC!Tommy with the caption "Me passing the dirty crime boy title to you."

Image 2: Question 4 of 15 Do you love your brother? Answers, please choose 1

Image 3: WILBUR: This isn't just a silly river delta to me anymore, it's got a name, it's got a story, it's— it's L’Manberg, and it's … to me it's, it's you.

Image 4: A painting of Cain and Abel. Cain holds a club in one hand and Abel's wrist in the other as they walk forward. While it is in the background and mostly covered by the other images, their faces and hands are visible.

Image 5: Question 5 of 15 Liar. You feel guilty, don't you? Answers, please choose 1

Image 6: A screenshot from The Fall by SAD-ist. Wilbur has his hand on Tommy's shoulder and is leaning forward to speak to him. Tommy looks anxious.

Image 7: "Am I my brother's keeper?"

Image 8: A piece of paper pinned to the wall, reading "Someone is looking up to you. Don't let that person down." In the context of the collage, it is pinned onto Wilbur's sleeve/upper arm from the SAD-ist screenshot.

Image 9: Question 6 of 15 But you're the one that left him. Answers, please choose 1 [check mark next to the selected answer] I wanted to and I wanted it to hurt him so he could let go of me.

Image 10: WILBUR: I’m glad, Tommy! You know what, I’m glad! Because me and you were never good for that server. We just weren’t!

Image 11: When I close my eyes I'm climbing in the dark Trying not to fall apart Sometimes I get so high Falling is the only out I see And I don't wanna take you down with me

Image 12: a softer world comic. the text reads "At my worst, I worry you'll realize/you deserve better./At my best, I worry you won't."

Image 13: Question 7 of 15 Do you think your brother loves you? Answers, please choose 1

Image 14: WILBUR: Tommy, come over here, please, I— Tommy, I was scared I wouldn’t see you again if you didn’t forgive me. And I didn’t want to not see you again.

The second image is a collage of 11 images.

Image 1: WILBUR: You love it, don’t you, Tommy? You love… L’Manberg…

Image 2: a softer sea comic. the text reads "You're my brother and I love you./That's it./No punchline."

Image 3: A painting of two men standing next to each other. they look similar. the one on the right puts his hand flat above both of their heads, sheltering them; the one on the left has his hand up to touch the hand of the one on the right. the painting is titled My Brother's Keeper.

Image 4: I will stand in the dark for you I will hold you back by force I will stand here right outside your door I won’t see you disgraced I will protect your name and your heart Because I miss my friend

Image 5: A screenshot from Final Waltz by SAD-ist. Wilbur has his hand on Tommy's shoulder. Tommy looks up at him.

Image 6: In essence, the entire Bible is written as an affirmative response to this question.

Image 7: TOMMY: I believe that everyone’s got a little bit of good in them. And I know that Wilbur had good in him. Alright?

Image 8: This is no garden. This is my brother and I need a shovel to love him.

Image 9: A collage of an open book with forests, butterflies, etc. the text reads: i care for you still and i will forever.

Image 10: A painting of two young boys wading in the ocean and holding hands. The smaller one has spiderman swim trunks.

Image 11: TOMMY: It’s not about chances, Foolish. It’s about making sure you don’t give up on the people you care about.

[jules-ln]

Sorry Anon, the post was too long so I decided to make it its own post instead of an answer

Let me write my Bible because I have thought about this more than I should and I'm mentally ill

First the silence of the girls

I'm going be honest and say that while I don't like this book, I can recognize that is very well written and author makes it very interesting

But!

The girls were silenced indeed 😅

Like, if you're going to market your book as a "feminist" retelling of the Iliad I'll expect your level of feminism to be more advanced than what Homer was writing

Don't get me wrong, I know that women and children are often overlooked at wars specially in a historical context, but what Pat Barker was presenting as feminism was simply "Women suffer more than men in wars 😥" and that is the same thing that Homer was saying hundreds of years ago, more than that, I'd say that Homer did it better

And you know, it's supposed to be a feminist retelling, so I was expecting sorority to be a thing, specially because the only other source of comfort, respect and friendship a woman like Briseis could have had then would've been other enslaved women

But no, we don't really see sorority in the greek camps for more than a couple of paragraphs at best, and I got the feeling that some women characters were just genderbents of the male heroes, like Odysseus's enslaved woman is clever, Nestor's enslaved woman is maternal, florals for spring? groundbreaking

More than that, in the Iliad there is a character named Iphis that is Patroclus's enslaved woman and Briseis mentioned being close friends with her. So you expect that being a close friend of the protagonist she should have a lot of dialogue, specially in conversations with Briseis, don't you think?

Bish, I don't even remember her talking at all to begin with, much less to Briseis! 🤣

The only meaningful relationship Briseis has in the book are Achilles and Patroclus, her life orbits around these men and the other women don't matter

And that leads me to my other point

Briseis doesn't do ANYTHING.

Now, I know, I know, I know. Briseis doesn't do anything in the Iliad either, but that's some of the problems I have with Iliad adaptations.

Like, none of them will EVER be as good as the Iliad, to any writer that think that they can make an adaptation of the Iliad be as good as the Iliad. Sit down, you aren't that guy

So really, they should just do what MM did. Do your own thing that can stand on its own without hanging on the Iliad. Even if it's different, that's a good thing

Now, I say all of that because, it would've been Good if Briseis did something, ANYTHING at all other than stand there and look pretty

You might say "it's accurate to the Iliad" I say "A protagonist that doesn't do anything at all and doesn't influence the world around them in any way is boring"

There was even this part where Briseis wonders about how much control Patroclus has over Achilles, And I was here like "Yesssss, Briseis is going to emotionally manipulate Patroclus to control Achilles so she can be the one who is actually in control of both"

Nope, that, didn't happen, like, at all

Even at some point the narrative kicks Briseis out of the story to focus on Achilles and Patroclus, and like, feminism where? 😅

Once again that leads to my next point. Patroclus and Achilles part was more interesting.

Unironically, the best part of the book was the relationship that both had, it was the type of relationship that was like "I love you, but ngl I kinda hate you and want to kill you too unironically" And I think that's interesting! That's new, I've never read anything like that regarding those two before!

But that's a problem, because when I bought the book I wanted to read about women, I wanted to read about Briseis, not about Achilles and Patroclus, and that the author made them SOOOO much more interesting than Briseis, is just sad

Then there's the problem of the rapes scene, which, in this day and age if you're going to add a rape scene in anything, you better have some freaking good reason. And in this book, they're there for mere shock value, it doesn't give anything to the story, it doesn't change the tone of the book, a good editor would've take them out, but I guess it was part of the "feminist" message 🙄

But really, I don't hate the book, like I said, it's well written in my opinion, but it is a disappointing book because it could've been a great book with some tweaks here and there

Now about The song of Troy

ACHILLES YOU SON OF A BITCH FUCKING LIPLESS MUPPET I HATE YOU Y SI CIEN AÑOS VIVO CIEN AÑOS CHINGAS A TU MADREEEEE

Now that we got that out of the way

See, the thing is that I've read the song of Troy some time ago, and I mostly rage read it so I don't remember it very well

Like I hated it SO MUCH it it it Flames flames FLAMES on the side of my head (yes, it's a reference) so I'm just going to say the things I remember that made me mad

🔸️Helen is the prime example that writing women that don't suck ass ISN'T an innate skill in women, like she was one of the most misogynistic characters that I've ever read and if I was Menelaus in this book, I would be happy that she was gone, bon voyage biatch!

🔸️Both the book and Achilles treat Patroclus like Trash

🔸️The story treats Achilles like an uwu boy that can do no wrong when in reality in the book he's an idiotic asshole estúpido kbron hijo de la chingada pinche mamon bastardo agarras tu espadita la haces rollito y te la metes por el culo pendejo de mierda. Yeah, I don't like Achilles in this book

🔸️Odysseus is written to allegedly be very smart, sadly in actuality he's very dumb, because you see, the whole thing about the fight between Agamemnon and Achilles was an elaborate plot by him to get the Trojans to come out if I remember correctly, now, I think any good good tactician will tell you that an overly elaborate plan that will result in like half of your men dying with no guarantee of it being successful anyway, isn't so smart

🔸️Briseis was written so badly... I'm just going to put it this way, at some point in the book Achilles hits her, and that was the best fucking thing Achilles did in that book, like yess fucking muppet slap that bitch again. Oh but don't worry, Briseis in the book was ok with being slapped and not in a kinky way

🔸️Helen hits Andromache, and so did Hector. I'm going to leave it at that

🔸️I don't remember too well because at this point the fog of rage was too thick, but I think Achilles and Hector kinda fell in love when they were fighting? Which was very weird

So make yourself a favor and don't read it

If you want a good adaptation read these

🔹️War music by christopher logue, it isn't finished because sadly the author died, but best adaptation I've read so far

Here's a quote I like:

"When Nyro’s mother heard of this

She shaved her head; she tore her frock; she went outside

Ripping her fingernails through her cheeks:

Then down her neck; her chest; her breasts;

And bleeding to her waist ran round the shops,

Sobbing:

‘God, kill Troy.

Console me with its death.

Revenge is all I have.

My boy was kind. He had his life to live.

I will not have the chance to dance in Hector’s blood,

But let me hear some have before I die.’

‘I saw her running round.

I took the photograph.

It summed the situation up.

He was her son.

They put it out in colour. Right?

My picture went around the world.’"

🔹️La cólera by Javier Olivares and Santiago García, is a comic in Spanish, but if you can get your hands on one copy, do it, it's so good and the art is beautiful, one of the best portrayals of Achilles I've seen, Pyrrha also appears

🔹️An Iliad, by Denis O'Hare and Lisa Peterson, is a play, and tbh I don't like this one as much as I do the other two, but it is SOOO GOOD too.

🔹️En mitad de tanto fuego by Alberto Conejero, this one is a play; short and sweet and the narrator is Patroclus, very new too, and as far as I know it's only in Spanish, but if you can get it, do so, because it's very good.

Let me translate a part of it to the best of my abilities to tempt you a bit

"How short was life, how short... Now bury me as soon as possible so I can cross the gate of Hades. Bury me, Achilles. And if someone in the future finds my tomb and opens it, let them see how smoke comes out of my shroud still. Because of the desire, Achilles, because of the desire"

[thrashkink-coven]

I’m currently rereading the Bible because Lord Lucifer asked me to, and reading this book now that I have context and understanding from the cultures that surrounded them (Egypt, Canaanites, etc because there’s a ton), it becomes increasingly and blatantly clear, or at least throughout Genesis so far, that this book was definitely written as an explanation for why the Israelites deserve to own the land of Canaan. I don’t want to get too into my personal opinions on a holy book, I don’t like it obviously, but it’s a cultural story, fine cool.

But its so incredibly obvious that there’s a very deliberate way things are written, why are we talking about how much gold is in Havaliah (modern day Sudan) on page 3 of Genesis??? Such a strange detail unless you consider that this book was being used to sell Canaan to the Isrealites. Certain details are oddly placed, especially in regards to the land and the natives, which Abraham really doesn’t like. Keep in mind that at this point there have been no mention of why the Cannanites are so evil, like yes, we know the normal human sacrifices and sex rituals but none of that has even been mentioned yet. Abraham seems to just be an incredibly xenophobic Isrealite who thinks he deserves to own the entire land because God told him he did. Which like, again, not my place to say whether God really did or didn’t. But I keep reading things like “I would never marry one of these LOCAL CANAANITE WOMEN! I could never let one of my sons marry these LOCAL CANAANITE WOMEN! Marry your cousin instead! My sons will conquer this land and I will have thousands upon thousands of descendants!”

It also makes me extremely uncomfortable the amount of times God says blatantly “do this for me and I’ll make sure you have a fuck ton of kids”. Like thats always the promise, if you do what he says you’ll have thousands of descendants. Isn’t that…? Idk. It’s not like we’re seeing great displays of faith here. Abraham gets everything he wants immediately so he’s not being tested by anything. Big guy says “I’m going to make you famous” and then Abraham gets famous and has way too many children. These entire first few chapters after the flood are just Abraham getting literally everything he wants and being kind of weird towards his sons.

This entire first few chapters are extremely supremacist and ownership-y. As someone who hates the concept of land ownership it makes me feel uncomfortable. Because like… nobody owns the Earth ykwim? You don’t just get to take an entire land. What gives you the right? And the constant idea that they must destroy and conquer all others, even those within your own family.

Like, “the ground you are lying on BELONGS TO YOU” I fucking hate that.

Anyways, I’ll probably keep sharing more fuckery as I find it but so far, first chapter is a fat 0/10 stars. Most Christians don’t consider the old testament to be very relevant to us today anyways, so there’s that. Hopefully the new testament will be better!

[andyxcds]

babel rant

okay so i read babel by r.f kuang and i really cannot stop thinking about it.

like i wrote a long piece of my mind and anyone can read it but it might uhm, ruffle some feathers...

anyways im going to reread this soon, if anyone wants to talk literally dm me or reply.

Babel by R.F. Kuang is a literary masterpiece which explores the concepts of racism, and the consequences of elitism, and can be compared to the likes of the Secret History.

“That's the beauty of learning a new language. It should feel like an enormous undertaking. It ought to intimidate you. It makes you appreciate the complexity of the ones you know already.”

To some extent that seems to be the issue I face when I begin learning a language. There is often some battle in my mind because I am made up of only one tongue. When I speak in English, I think in English. Therefore, when I am told something in the tongue of another, I have no choice but to turn it into something I understand. There is hope that some underlying knowledge is made clear to me when faced with a foreign tongue.

“That's just what translation is, I think. That's all speaking is. Listening to the other and trying to see past your own biases to glimpse what they're trying to say. Showing yourself to the world, and hoping someone else understands.”

When Kuang takes it out of the context of speaking, translation becomes something of objectivity. It is transformed into a means of understanding in which topics such as feelings, emotions, ideas, and values are given a new perspective. I could elaborate on my feelings to a stranger in hopes they can understand how I feel. I could express my observations to a friend and hope they have observed the same. I could share my ideas to a classroom and pray that they can easily grasp and memorize them. I could proclaim my opinions and values to the world hoping they may be able to act in the same way as I.

“How slender, how fragile, the foundations of an empire. Take away the centre, and what’s left? A gasping periphery, baseless, powerless, cut down at the roots.”

This is where Kuang revealed her prowess. Her plotting was ever so brilliant in the sense that she decidedly recreated the falling of Jericho, Babel, and Egypt. Three of the most influential venues in the Bible. She begins to paint Robin as Joshua, the soldier of God who was an important part of bringing down the walls of Jericho, in the context of bringing down the British empire from striking against those of China. However, she also creates a contrast between the Babel of the Bible and the Babel of the Great Empire of Britain. Finally, she paints Robin, not as Moses, almost rather close to God inflicting plagues upon those of Britain.

As all these come toward the end of the book, it should be observed that Kuang has a habit of inflicting tragedy as a form of hooking the reader. From the beginning of the book, our main character, Robin has already gone through many hardships, although very little of his life before Lovell was reduced to nothing short of a bad memory he prefers to hide from himself. Even his name, his birth name, was something he did not seem to have much reverence for, seeing that he rarely mentioned it to his friends. From my understanding, his personality was extroverted but shy, and level-headed and could walk away when he knew he was close to anger. Careful but painfully addicted to and obsessed with the idea of punishment and being punished. The abuse he faced in Lovell’s home could frankly be blamed for the violence he displayed towards the end. His anger towards his father, himself, and his friends impacted who he chose to become in the face of inevitable death.

“English did not just borrow words from other languages; it was stuffed to the brim with foreign influences, a Frankenstein vernacular. And Robin found it incredible, how this country, whose citizens prided themselves so much on being better than the rest of the world, could not make it through an afternoon tea without borrowed goods.”

Back to the context of Britain, Kuang refers to English being Frankenstein vernacular, imposing that English is a language made of many other languages. Some of these languages include the romance languages– Romanian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian– which originally stem from Vulgar Latin, a language most to all scholars were required to fluent in to work in Babel. She later goes on to establish through the mind of Robin that the Britons were nothing short of hypocritical or rather ignorant to the actions of colonialism. But just as she lets Robin have these opinions of the British, I was equally struck when she wrote further about Robin’s addiction to survival. That was when I tried to put the two together. Robin’s need for indulging in the splendor Babel had offered to him, while understanding that what they were doing was wrong, was almost similar to the British scholars and citizens being aware that they were exploiting resources and knowledge they desperately needed from places they believed were below them. It could also be seen in contrasting tones being that Robin was already self-concious in the way the Britons were greedy and selfish.

“So, you see, translators do not so much deliver a message as the rewrite the original. And herein lies the difficulty - rewriting is still writing, and writing always reflects the authors ideology and biases.”

Here, Kuang brings her story out of a page and into life. She is tackling the understanding that often, pieces of fiction written in foreign languages is more than often given new meaning when translated into another language. This often is impacted by current world issues or bias and the ideologies of the translator. Take the Bible for example, so many editions have been published in English from the original Hebrew; the KJV, NIV, NSIV, and the rather blasphemous Gay Bible (I despise this one personally.) Most people love to argue (some atheists) that the Bible was altered so many times for any of the words in it to be true, and some believe that regardless of what it says, the meaning still stands the same. However, in all the versions I have listed, one doesn’t particularly sit right amongst the rest because it is said to go against some of the principles the other Bibles uphold.

Another example would be the Illiad which I am currently re-reading! I have tackled two different versions of it and somehow one makes more sense than the other, but I feel as though the other is somewhat closer to the original Greek version. Altogether, I mean to say that Kuang has addressed what she may have found to be an issue she may have faced when writing. She states in her Author’s Note that the issue with historical fiction and written history is tht some writers get dates and important things wrong. Imagine how bad that would be when translated fiction was brought into play.

[jasper-book-stash]

March 2024 Reading Wrap Up

I got bronchitis and my period at the same time in March, and then spilled tea on my computer, so March was a very stressful time for me. Regardless, I managed to read 10 books! And honestly, overall, this is one of the better months - the lowest I've ranked a book is 6/10, which is damn good considering the absolute bullshit I usually read.

Religious Text

None applicable.

1/10 - Why Did They Publish This?

None applicable.

2/10 - Trash

None applicable.

3/10 - Meh

None applicable.

4 to 6/10 - Mid-Tier

Tomb Sweeping | Alexandra Chang

I read this book while sick. And boy howdy, did that make it a weird experience. I get what it was going for, but it really wasn't my vibe. It just felt like everything was...unfinished. Which was the point, I suppose, but it was still annoying.

7 to 8/10 - Good With Caveats

What the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality | Daniel A Helminiak

This is a very short book compared to my usual reads, topping at 152 pages. And I appreciate a book that gets straight to the point and analyzes the historical context around various works, particularly religious works. Good job. My only complaint is some editing issues.

Born to Love, Cursed to Feel | Samantha King

This was a poetry collection and was the only other book I read while sick, and boy howdy did I have a time of it. I spent most of the reading just...putting post-it notes in and nodding along to the lines. It was a surprisingly good book, considering I found it in the back alley version of a book store.

Southern Cunning: Folkloric Witchcraft in the American South | Aaron Oberon

Look. This is not a 101 book. It's not a 102 book. It's not even a 201 book. It simply is. And as much as I enjoyed it and enjoyed reading it, the fact that I spent most of my reading time fixing the editing means that I cannot, in good faith, put this any higher than an 8 out of 10. Dear Aaron Oberon, if you ever read this, PLEASE give me access to the original file so I can fix your punctuation and spelling mistakes. Sincerely, a fellow Southerner.

9/10 - Very Very Good

Snow White with the Red Hair, volumes 21-23 | Sorata Akiduki

I am still so fucking feral over this series. I love them so fucking much. I want them all to be happy but I also like seeing their shenanigans. Unfortunately, though we're at 26 published volumes, we've reached the end of the ones in Missouri Evergreen that I may access. I'll either have to wait and hope that someone gets them, or I'll have to bite the bullet and buy them myself.

Not Pounded By Anything: Six Platonic Tales Of Non-Sexual Encounters | Chuck Tingle

This is my first expedition into the erotic Tingleverse after reading some pieces of the horror Tingleverse in Straight and Camp Damascus. And I really, really like this book. It's 77 pages and is such an easy read. Godspeed, you glorious bastard.

10/10 - Unironically Recommend To Everyone

Well, everyone who's into the genre these fall under, at least.

Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft, tenth edition | Janet Burroway

I found this in the free section of a bookstore in the middle of nowhere, and let me tell you, it is now marked up one side and down the other with highlighter, because I needed it. There are so many good parts of this book that it's genuinely one I would recommend to people who are trying to figure out why their writing feels flat.

Sacred Gender: Create Trans and Nonbinary Spiritual Connections | Ariana Serpentine

First, I want to congratulate the author on what is possibly the coolest name ever.

Second, if you're an occultist, polytheist, witch, magic practitioner, or in any other way affiliated with things beyond or within mortal ken...get this book. It's making me rethink a lot of my own experiences with my craft and my religion, but in a good way.

[badbedforbedding]

Just saw a post comparing Daenerys to Lucifer/The anti-christ, and I can't help but feel both amused and confused.

No offense guys, but making analysis of the books using the Christian bible as a reference makes no sense at all. From the top of my head, I can think of two reasons:

There is no Christianity in ASoIaF: George purposefully made up other religions to fit his fantasy world. Also, nowhere in his books he states one religion to be better than another, he gives depth to each of them and a context to explain it. There is no right or wrong religion, there are characters that use those religious according to their goals.

George RR Martin is no C. S. Lewis. With Lewis there is Christian symbolism in his book because he intended to do so, he was fervently Christian himself. Take that as you will, but Lewis made the end of Narnia into a joke just because he wanted to make it into a kind of moral lesson for kids. GRRM is different, if he has a religion, he keeps it to himself. He doesn't preach it in any way, and he doesn't insert it into his books.

So if you make a theory where any plot of ASoIaF is an allegory of the Christian bible, I'm sorry to break it to you, but that has no bases on reality and your theory is actually just a headcanon.

p.s.: I read once about how C S Lewis accused romance books of being pornography, I would love to know what he would think of asoiaf. Probably a portal to hell. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[plague-of-insomnia]

Vatican Miracle Examiner Vocab: Chapter 1

100+ vocab terms from Ch 1, Vol 1 of the 5-part manga series.

Mostly Catholic terms in Japanese and unique usage related to the series.

This list is not exhaustive. I focused on terms that would be unfamiliar (or unfamiliar as used in this series), and/or directly relate to Catholic terminology in Japanese.

I list part of speech, pronunciation, and simple definitions. I have not included additional of these if they are not relevant to this series.

Character names will have titles where applicable and those will be in brackets to minimize confusion; titles will be listed under general vocab as well.

At the end of the list I’ll have a few sources for some of the more obscure terms in case you want to read more or get better context.

As of now I have things listed in the order in which they appear, roughly, in the manga.

Note: This will be a long post since it’s the first chapter in the series and 31 pages long.

~#~

Character Names/Places

Note: I’ve chosen to spell names close to the katakana spellings; keep in mind some may be transcribed with slightly different spellings (like Joseph instead of Josef).

平賀•ヨゼフ•庚 [神父] - Hiraga, Josef Kou [Father], Franciscan order

ロベルト•ニコラス[神父] - Roberto, Nicholas [Father], Franciscan order

良太 - Ryota (Josef’s younger brother)

サウロ[大司教] - Saul [Archbishop] , Franciscan order

ニコラス[枢機卿] - Nicholas [Cardinal], secretary of the Dicastery for the Causes of the Saints (also potentially the head of the miracle examiners), also known as “the prefect (of the Curia)” in English

ドンナ•ドロレス - Donna Dolores, a nun from St Rosario Church

[大天使]ミカエル - [Archangel] Michael

[聖]ペテ - [Saint] Peter

パウロ[大司教] - [Archbishop] Paul, Dominican order

��ントニウス[神父] - [Father] Antonius

セントロザリオ教会 - St Rosario Church, a church in South America where Josef & Roberto are sent to investigate

バチカソ市国 - Vatican City, the City state of the Vatican

Other Vocab

奇跡、きせき (n; の adj) miracle

常識、じょうしき (n) common sense, common knowledge, common practice

科学、かがく (n) science

説明、せつめい (n, する v; trans v) explanation, account, caption, legend, description

不可思議、ふかしぎ (な adj; n; yojijukugo) mystery, miracle, something inexplicable, unfathomable

現象、げんしょう (n) phenomenon

神、かみ (n) God, divinity

御業、みわざ (n) the works (of the gods)

真偽、しんぎ (n) veracity, authenticity

確かめる、たしかめる (Ichidan v; trans v) to ascertain, to check, to make sure

神父、しんぷ (n) Catholic priest [Note: this is the term used when speaking to someone , like “Father” So-and-So, as opposed to a general word for priest, 司祭, which you don’t use when speaking TO someone but rather about them.]

害、がい (n) evil influence

礼服、れいふく (n) cassock, vestments, etc

暗号、あんごう (n; のadj) code, cipher, password

解読、かいどく (n; するv; trans v) deciphering, decoding

聖年、せいねん (n) holy year, jubilee [see additional notes below]

大聖年、だいせいねん (n) the Great Jubilee (of 2000)

聖堂、せいどう (n) church

バチカン (n) (the) Vatican

市国、しこく (n) city state (as in the Vatican)

宗教、しゅつきょう (n) religion, faith

ブラザー(n) brother (as in, a monk or priest)

天使、てんし (n;のadj) Angel

悪魔、あくま (n) devil, demon, the Devil (Satan)

骨肉腫、こつにくしゅ (n) osteosarcoma

治療費、ちりょうひ (n) cost of medical treatment

ルルドの泉、いすみ (n) Fountain of Lourdes, aka home of “Lourdes Water” in France

奇跡調査官、きせきちょうさかん (n) miracle examiner

調査、ちょうさ (n; するv; trans v) investigation, examination

聖痕現象、スティグマータ (n) stigmata (phenomenon)

未知、みち (のadj; n) the unknown

知れる、しれる (ichidan v; intrans v) to become known; to be discovered; to be known; to be understood

舞い込む、まいこむ (godan v む ending; intrans v) to happen unexpectedly

大司教、だいしきょう (n) archbishop

キリスト (n) (Jesus) Christ

聖書、せいしょ (n) Bible, scriptures, holy writ

黙示録、もくしろく (n) book of revelation; the apocalypse

悪魔が書いた魔法書 - literally, “magic writing written by the devil” [see additional notes below]

古文書、こもんじょ (n) historical document, ancient manuscripts

断片、だんぺん (n) fragment

読む、よむ (godan v, む ending; trans v) to decipher, to read, to recite (a sutra, prayer)

原文、げん���ん (n) original text

会、かい (n; n suffix) meeting, assembly, conference, clerical order

イエズス会 (n) society of Jesus, aka Jesuit order

ドミニコ会 (n) Dominican order

フランシスコ会 (n) Franciscan order (which Josef and Roberto belong to)

派閥 (n; のadj) faction; used in the manga as in orders of priests

破門、はもん (n; するv; のadj) excommunication

枢機卿、すうききょう (n) Cardinal (title)

執行部、しっこうぶ (n) leadership (for example, the Roman Curia, that is the administration of the Vatican)

列聖、れっせい (n; するv) canonization (of a Saint)

列聖省長官、れっせいしょうちょうかん (n) literally, “canonization ministry secretary”; I believe this is intended to refer to the Secretary/Director of the Dicastery of the Causes of Saints; a position in the Vatican overseeing things related to canonization [see additional notes]

祈り、いのり (n) prayer

申請書、しんせいしょ(n) Written application

申請、 しんせい (n; する v; trans v) application, petition, request

教会、しょうかい (n) church, congregation

修道女、しゅうどうじょ (n) nun

大天使、だいてんし (n) archangel

神の子、かみのこ (n) son of God (Jesus Christ); child of God (Christian)

処女懐胎、しょじょかいたい (n) virgin birth, such as Mary with Jesus (immaculate conception)

受胎、じゅたい (n; するv; intrans v) conception

聖母、せいぼ (n) Virgin Mary; holy mother

カソリック (n) Catholic, Catholicism, Catholic Church [note there are a couple diff katakana spellings of this word, but this one is used in VME]

受肉、じゅにく(n) (Christ’s) incarnation (as Jesus of Nazareth)

降臨、こうりん (n; するv) descent to earth (of a god); advent; epiphany

罪、つみ (n; なadj; のadj) sin

永遠、えいえん (n; なadj) eternity; immortality

贖う、あがなう (godan v, う ending; trans v) to atone for

最後の審判、さいごのしんぱん (n) judgment day; final judgment (religious sense)

聖、せい (n) Saint (may also be written with katakana, as in 「セント」, like “St Rosario’s Church”

ローム (n) Rome

司教、しきょう (n) bishop (catholic)

代理人、だいりにん (n) proxy, representative

存在意義、ぞんざいいぎ (n) raison d'être, reason for existing

冒涜、ぼうとく (n; するv) blasphemy, sacrilege, desecration

主、しゅ (n) the Lord (God)

カルト (n) cult

教徒、しょうと (n) believer, adherent

法王、ほうおう (n) Pope; aka ローム法王

司祭、しさい (n; のadj) a priest [do not confuse with 神父, the title of “Father”]

大罪、たいざい、(n) mortal sin, grave sin

契約、けいやく (n; するv; trans v) covenant, contract, pact [as in a deal with the devil]

最高責任者、さいこうせきにんしゃ (n) chief executive [such as, of the Vatican Bank]

教皇庁、きょうこうちょう(n) the Curia, the administration of the Vatican

地位、ちい (n) position, such as within the Vatican hierarchy, or in line to be a papal candidate

潜り込む、 もぐりこみ (Godan v, む ending; intrans v) to go undercover, to infiltrate

マリア (n) (the Virgin) Mary [sometimes seen as 聖母マリア]

聖母子 (n) Virgin and Child, Mary & Baby Jesus

全知全能、ぜんちぜんのう (n; のadj; yojijukugo) omnipotence and omniscient, all powerful and all knowing

救世主、きゅうせいしゅ (n) savior, the messiah, Jesus Christ (the messiah, savior)

背徳、はいとく (n) immorality, corruption, lapse of virtue

堕落、だらく (n; するv) depravity, degradation, corruption

偶像、ぐうぞう (n) idol, image, statue

天罰、てんぼつ (n) divine punishment, wrath of God, judgment of heaven

主よ、しゅよ (なadj; n) Lord, head (of a group)

信仰、しんこう (n;するv; trans v) (religious) faith, belief

印、しるし (n) a sign

聖所、せいじゅ (n) sanctuary, inner sanctum

邪悪、じゃあく (なadj;n) wicked, evil

~#~

Additional Notes

Holy year, 聖年 ; Great Jubilee, 大聖年

“Devil’s book,” 悪魔が書いた魔法書

I did a lot of searching trying to figure out what book, specifically, was meant here, and came up with 2 possibilities:

the Gigas Codex, ギガス写本 or 悪魔の聖書, a book that is not held by the Vatican but was supposedly written with magical assistance from Satan himself;

the Grand Grimoire, 大奥義書 or 大いなる教書, not written by Satan but that is held by the Vatican.

It’s possibly intended to be vague, but the exact phrasing here is different than used for either of these actual books and I couldn’t find any other possible real option. Note the anime does call a book “the devil’s book” and describe it as a “Bible written by the devil” but it doesn’t seem to really be a reference to Gigas, so maybe it’s intended to be a fictional book inspired by these real texts for the purposes of the story.

Secretary of Dicastery of the Causes of Saints - 列聖省長官

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicastery_for_the_Causes_of_Saints

~#~

As always, I’m human and make mistakes. If you find anything feel free to let me know.

[wolffyluna]

I think I may have made some prosleytizers happy today.

I just wanted to grab some pamphlets from the "Hello! Please join Islam" group (I Like Religious Pamphlets), but I was willing to talk and my approximate knowledge of many things extended enough to Islam that I think I kind of ?impressed? them. And I think I may have also convinced them that they had got me on the hook. I was a single failed conversational reflex save from saying the shahada.

The thing is, while my mouth was being friendly and interested, internally I was going "...that's not a revelation from God, that's something you could have known by mundane means," "that's not a revelation from God, and it's not even how mountains work," "While I can't say definitevely that that's not a revelation from God, I will point out that in any book containing a lot of imagery, the probability that that imagery can apply if you squint to something centuries later rapidly approaches 1."

And now, an hour or so later, I find myself coming up with ways to make their arguments for the truth of Islam better.

You see, the person I was talking to's argument against Christianity was that there were "too many versions of the Bible" and could you really trust your immortal soul with that? Now, he could have meant "the whole situation with the apocrypha is /weird/ when it comes to a revelation from God, what are y'all even doing." But no, from context, he meant the fact that they were multiple English translations.

Which, uh, bold words from the guy who's own sacred text has multiple English translation?

Now, points to Islam, they have way more of a tradition of reading the Quran in Arabic compared to Christians' and reading the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Koine Greek. But Christians do... do that. (I think he was also judging them for not reading Jesus' words in the "original Arabic" but. um. There are some technical difficulties with doing that.)

The thing is, if I wanted to argue that Christians had a) recieved a revelation from God, but b) had willfully misinterpreted it and stewarded it badly, I would not go for English translations. No, there's a better slam dunk* lined up here: The Nicene Creed.

It won't work against all Christians, but he's going for an Australian audience here, and Australian Christians mostly fall under the Nicene umbrella.

And the Nicene Creed is a statement of orthodox Christian belief that isn't in the Bible. Chunks of it are made up of implications from the Bible, that come with wild disagreement about. And it was (arguably) created for political purposes by a Roman Emperor! Come on! It's an easy shot, stop running down the wrong side of court going "but the NIV vs the KJV!"

*Read: more convincing to weird religious nerds like moi.

[inbarfink]

So, Good Omens the book has two official translations into Hebrew.

The first one came out in 2006 and translated by Boaz Weiss. And is the first version of Good Omens I ever read!

And the second time came out in 2020, just in time for the 30th anniversary and Live Action Adaptation Synergy, and translated by Tomer Ben-Aharon.

And these two versions….

Man, I really want to say that they both have their own strengths and weaknesses - but that’s not exactly true... What’s actually going on is that, like, my nostalgia for the First Version of Good Omens I’ve ever read aside, the 2020 version is like clearly the superior version. I mean, it's not BAD by any means, but still.. Like, the 2006 translation straight-up removes a few sentences and lines of dialouge from this book, seemingly just cause they were a bit hard to translate. And there's some changes that seem to be purely a matter of 'the translator didn't know what a Word meant, made an Educated Guess from context, and guessed a bit wrong"

In comperison, the 2020 version has less errors, it doesn't remove any lines. And it also allows itself to stick less closely to the exact wording of the original English in order to make the dialouge feel more naturalistic in Hebrew and make sure each character preserves their unique dialouge quirks. And there's some real interesting and fun solutions to the book's bigger translation challanges. In general, it is both a more accurate and a more creative translation.

And the 2020 version does also has flaws and issues, but most of them are shared with the 2006 version (for example, neither version figured out what the joke is in ‘a pair of consenting bicycle repairmen’)…but…

But…

BUT

There is one Thing in Good Omens that the 2006 version translated so much better than the 2020 version. And it’s a Recurring Thing, and it’s a Thing that is SO THEMATICALLY IMPORTANT to Good Omens as a whole, and it’s handled really brilliantly in the 2006 version. And that one thing feels so important to me that it really single-handedly stopping me from definitively recommending the 2020 version over the 2006 version.

Okay, so, since Modern Hebrew is a language primary used by Jewish Folks - it doesn’t really have dedicated words for the Christian concepts of ‘Heaven’ and ‘Hell’. What we do have are words for close-enough concepts in Jewish Theology - that when used in these kind of contexts, can easily work as a stand in for the Christian (or at least Christian Pop Culture) concepts of Hell and Heaven.

The problem, for Good Omens at least, is that these two words are “Gehinnom” for Hell and for Heaven it’s “Gan Eden”

(Which means “Garden of Eden” in case you didn’t get it)

And usually this conflation between the theological concepts of Christian-pop-culture-Heaven and the Garden of Eden isn’t that big a deal. But, you know, in Good Omens, Eden and Heaven are distinctive different things with extremely different thematic roles!!

And the 2006 translation handled this problem really elegantly, I think. Rather than the usual “Gan Eden”, ‘Heaven’ was translated as “Shamayim”. This Hebrew word is usually used to literally just mean “sky” in Modern contexts (as is “do you like the color of…”) but it can also be used poetically to mean ‘that place God and Angels hang out at”. In Biblical contexts these two ideas are often conflated (if you were like ‘wait if there’s no Hebrew word for ‘Heaven’ what does it say in that or this Bible passage?’, the answer is almost always “Shamayim”)

It’s almost like an inverse of the word ‘Heaven/Heavens’ in it's modern use - by default it is used to mean the theological metaphysical concept of God's residance and/or the Good Afterlife and more rarely and poetically used to mean the air between the ground and outer space. “Shamayim” is ‘sky’ by default and “God Zone” more rarely. All of this, plus the original English text already having a lot of references to Heaven being ‘Above’ is enough for it’s use in the Good Omens 2006 Translation as the word for 'Heaven' to feel 100% natural and coherent.

Plus, while the word “Gehinnom” does not have the same thematic and theological problems as “Gan Eden” does in GO, it was also swapped out for “Sheol”. Which is also a rarer word for a hell-like place - making the use of “Shamyim” feels more natural and keeping the alliteration of Heaven-Hell and Gan Eden-Gehinom.

(There is one line in which ‘Heaven’ is translated as ‘Gan-Eden’ instead of ‘Shamayim’ and that is this classic passage:

Obviously the line “the sky is not found in England” wouldn’t make any sense. So ‘Gan-Eden’ was used instead and… I think that line still makes enough sense like that. Since Aziraphale was the Angel guarding the Gates of Eden and that’s how he got to Earth in the first place, you can also say that's where he's from. I think it works well enough considering the circumstances.)

So, yeah, I think that was a very wonderful solution. It’s a good reminder that despite my frustrations with the 2006 translation it was still done with a lot of Actual Effort and thinking behind it. So what did the generally-better 2020 translation do to solve that same Heaven-Eden problem?

Nothing.

In the 2020 translation, the Garden of Eden is “Gan-Eden” and Heaven is ALSO “Gan-Eden”. The earthly garden of earthly pleasures where Aziraphale and Crowley met and the place where all the Angels hang out at use the EXACT SAME WORD. And no attempt is made within the text to distinguish between the two in any way.

It really drives me nuts. There so many little interesting translation gems in the 2020 translation that I absolutely love. But I just… can’t recommend this translation to anyone wholeheartedly when it has this small-yet-huge-problem right in the middle of it.

And it's also frustrating cause I checked a bit of the official translations for GO the Show on Amazon Prime (there's dubs and subs) and those ALSO translate Heaven as 'Gan Eden'!! It's so frustrating cause yeah, that's a Translation Challange, but it's one that's been technically solved already!! Why is the only Hebrew version of Good Omens with a decent solution to the Gan Eden Problem ALSO the version where Aziraphale is really into pickles???

[loveniiadjei]

another thing thats bothering me is that, as each year passes it feels like my relationships with everyone is strained....maybe the ties that kept us together are slowly breaking. People are getting married moving away, having different jobs. Why do I keep coming back to Georgia. I think ive left at least 4 times. and I keep coming back. I'm making this known to myself that if I leave Georgia again. I dont think I'll come back. the memories here aren't bad, but I leave here because I wanted to help my friends when I was younger...and I dont know if I really succeeded in doing so...I had all my accounts hacked and thats lame. I remember being irritated and angry at secrets I've kept for people I love but why. am I wrong for believing what ive read in the Bible is true. is my conscience even working....yes it is. because I haven't done anything really crazy. but I guess this life is meant to break you down in hopes of ending it all. and some people really have done that. maybe those are rumors maybe its true. I couldn't tell you. but my vision and goals and future endeavors I hope are still alive. or maybe not hope. because I keep waking up each day and still try. but I want to move on. like really move on. some people really have it lucky man. I could use a flight somewhere. just a flight to go out of state....and I book a room and sleep somewhere in peace. but what difference does that make when home feels like the exact same thing. I'm here going to work then coming home. Theirs some things in my mind that I'd like to tell people but the thing is I can't get the details totogethaer to be able to say what I can remember. and also out of context....all I have are videos of moments I thought are special to me because of the years and the people in them. so I dont know if I want to follow the ways of music by deleting things or by keeping these things to myself. but whatever I decide to do.....I want to be better at regulating my mind and emotions. Theirs so much stuff I didn't get credit or pay for and it's irritating me because why am I growing old in age but not in experiences. Its just the same thing over and over and over.

[papirouge]

Clicked the link for you from that other anon 👍🏾

It highlighted how in the US at least, the number of people who call themselves Christians on these polls are falling faster. Active church membership has fallen below 50% for the first time. By 2070, of this trend keeps up, the Christian majority will disappear.

It’s interesting to read because as someone who grew up Christian many people who call themselves Christian and go to church aren’t really Christian, I believe real number of people who are Christ-like right now is very small. USAmerican Christians often have their priorities set to be more about their ego and nationalism than actually follow Christ’s word. Right now, when Christians make up about 65% of the country already, many are outspoken about how Jesus is too liberal and his message is too weak. They want some overly muscular tattooed warlord Jesus who loves guns, hates socialism and stands for nationalism. When at least in my mind he was a brown Palestinian man who loves to laugh, enjoy the beauty of gods creations, and loved to share the word of God. He didn’t ignore or condemned anyone regardless of their background or profession, because Gods word is for everyone to hear. He is pure and comfort. He wouldn’t separate women from the group for being women, and he wouldn’t ignore children. He gave his word and it was up for the people to decide to follow because God have us free will and wants us to follow him willingly, not under threat of violence.

Anyway, yeah, I hope more americans study more about the history of the world back then, I hope more people maybe learn the languages and understand the Bible instead of using it to be hateful. Then the numbers of christians in these polls would be better reflected

Also happy Easter 🙌🏾

For context, that anon was a Zionist hater/troll that was pissy at me for calling out genocide.

So in a typical Zionist fashion she tried to used those articles to mock Christianity. She really thought she did something by popping up those articles but she only exposed how slow she is because it's a well documented fact that Christianity is losing influence in the western world, while it's growing in developing countries, such as Africa and Asia..

It's very embarrassing to see people like her think the USA is a relevant compass to grasp the dynamic of the Church. Most Christians on this planet aren't Americans, let alone White or Westerner. This anon stunt screams typical yankee main character syndrome.

I always said that USAmericans Christian were the most degenerate flock of Christians and that we global Christians didn't claim them. Just today I crossed sword with Christians on TikTok about OSAS, and the lot of them didn't even know about the story or Ananias and Saphira. They either thought it was the old testament, when it's in the new one (Ananias ans Saphira were Christian converts who lived in a Christian commune administered by Peter (see Acts 5:1-11) or that I was making this story up🤦🏾‍♀️ Many American Christian are absolutely uneducated about the Bible. They never read it back to back. They are just too lazy to do so and let their (most likely corrupted) pastor spoonfed them with cherry picked passage.

I'm not saying you have to remember the entire bibles, but reading it's entire content will greatly help you having ringing alarms whenever someone says stuff that has absolutely no place in that book. For example, there was a post floating around radblr mocking Christianity and quoting a book comparing women to dogs. And as someone who read the Bible back to back, I clocked that BS immediately bc I knew for a fact that 1) women were NEVER compared to dogs in the Bible 2) the only comparison that's made in the Bible between dogs and humans is in Matthew 15:26 in the mouth of Jesus who's speaking parabolically about Jews vs Gentiles [earning themselves a seat at the feast] - and btw Jesus used the word kunarion which means puppy/little (family) dog and not dog in a regular/lowkey derogatory sense that's rather translated from keleb. You'll also note that the kunarion dog is exclusively used in that scene of Jesus parabolically replying to Samaritan woman and not any other Bible passage that rather featured the keleb dog that has a derogatory nuance into it (unlike kunarion has an affectionate one which is why that word only came from the mouth of Jesus). Sorry for the MASSIVE tangent.

Anyway, it turns out that book was apocrypha (those dumb radfem though Ecclesiastes (in the Bible) and Ecclesiasticus (apocrypha) were the same book...🤦🏾‍♀️) so it was normal I had no recollection of reading in the Bible comparison women to dogs....

Thank you for your commitment by reading these articles though 🫡 i legit felt like it was laced with some malware crap lol And happy (belated) Easter to you too. I'm really showing how slow I am at replying asks now 😅

[suzyqrara]

Genesis chapter 4

This chapter describes the family tree of Adam and eve up too Enos and Lamech’s family. It makes me appreciate giving birth to my baby mason.  I am so grateful I have one child. I would still love to have more but I am thankful to GOD, I have at least one. Adam and eve’s first son killed his younger brother because he was weird in the head and jealous of him. I feel bad for Adel. He lived such a short life, and he did nothing wrong. It shows me how sick people can be.  Not everyone kills for a reason.  They can kill for no reason at all and that scary.  It makes me be thankful I don’t run into many people in my world because people can be crazy.

I just realized Cain and all his children had sex with their siblings…I’m sorry Lord, but this sounds ridiculous to me. This sounds like a fairy tale story.  Man was created out of dust.  A women was created from the rib of the man.  They lived for hundreds of years, making hundreds of babies.  The babies end up marrying/having babies with one another, the babies not coming out genetically weird from a miracle but then all of a sudden, a few hundred years later, incest begin to have babies come out weird looking.  Then it’s the whole presence of incest in the early years that makes me feel ehh. GOD would see the children having sex with one another and they are somehow related.  During Cain’s era who ever his wife was she could have been a sister or a niece of a sibling.  Wth? This truly sounds stupid.

People are saying to never take genesis literal and that makes me feel better because if we were expected to take it literal, I would think someone if making a fool out of me. God’s prophecies wrote the bible.  The book was passed down for thousands of years as more prophecies add on to it.  We are missing a low of context because people are flawed and I’m sure they missed lots of parts.  But how is that Christians are reading genesis and having studies on the book when we know we are missing so much information.  Making a woman from a man rib?  That is crazy to believe but GOD told the prophecy to write it down? The book literally says that Adam was the first human being. He could have been the very first creation but maybe god created more beings after him but the bible is missing this part. It annoys me how there is not enough information to make this sound legit.  The way genesis is written makes me feel many people steer away from the bible because it’s like wth kind of crap is this? Something tells me this is man’s flaw on paper. God could not have written this he wanted the man to write it.  He’s probably looking at this chapter like wth?  But it is all we have so he expects us to just go with the flow with it.  I will do that, but it makes it hard to defend if someone asks me, as a representative to GOD, to explain this book and how I can possibly believe this is true. This is man-made, how do we know if this version of the bible is even the version where GOD really put truth into it. I don’t trust people and I feel like millions of years ago someone decided we should not know the truth and burned the book and wrote this mumbo jumbo instead. I feel like the devil wrote this chapter because it really makes you question what you are representing.  How can GOD allow the devil to speak to a prophecy and have this be written down and put into the bible? Every time we read this scripture we are being tested and that’s not fair at all! I’m just going to take the first few chapters of genesis and take it with a grain of salt.  I believe in Adam and eve and the sin they created but the other information I will just take it with a grain of salt. This book makes me angry even. I must just remember that the information in the bible are stories made by people.  I must look at it as symbolism to explain real truths.  For example, chapter 1 is a story that was passed on from generation tp generation that simply says GOD made earth and everything in it.  How he made earth could be fiction.  Creating a man from dust, making a woman from his rib.  All of that could just be a fairy tale narrative just to emphasize that God is all mighty and he is the creator of all. The details of this book could just be extra things people made up to just add to the story.  But we need to look at the broader things.  How the first sin started.  It wasn’t from an apple and a snake manipulating a woman.  This story was made to let us know that people are easy to manipulate, and the act of sinning has been on earth since GOD first made it.  The snake is a symbol for the devil.  There were no talking snakes in the world.  Thank you lord for helping me understand

[dailyaudiobiblechronological]

7/23/2023 DAB Chronological Transcription

Isaiah 31 - 34

Welcome to the Daily Audio Bible Chronological, I'm China. Today is the 23rd day of July, Welcome. So great to be here with you today. Back together this week, looking forward to diving in and getting closer and closer through the Old Testament. And listen, if this is your first time reading through chronological, you're probably wondering when do we get to the New Testament? When do we read about Jesus? And this is The funny thing is that it takes us,10 months to read through the Old Testament chronologically. And it doesn't really ever feel that hefty, that lofty until, You are in the middle of summer and you're like, wow, hey, I'm still here, still reading this. And so we don't get into the New Testament until October, I believe. And so we're we're slowly but surely chugging our way through. But the really cool thing about chronological is, I mean obviously reading it in the order of the events which is to be believed In which they occurred. Things really start clicking and they kind of may go a little bit more sense to me, at least that's what I have found. And you get some good building blocks and some good structure and it encourages you and kind of makes you want to dive deeper, research that a little bit. Wait, what is this mean? I'm curious about this King's life. I'm what? What about this story? And they just dive in deeper, so Hopefully you have Enjoyed it? And if not this isn't for you, that's totally OK. There's other reading plans have tailored to Maybe something that works a little bit better for you, but I I love reading it chronologically. Anyways, so today we are here in the book of Isaiah with chapter 31 through 34, and since it's a new week, we'll be in the New International Version. 

Commentary

So if you have been reading along, You'll see all the different subtitles as we go in through the word. Sometimes it starts over with a chapter and sometimes it just kind of breaks it up. And so there's different things that we read and Obviously different topics that are happening and if you can remember back to when you started the book of Isaiah, Isaiah is one of the major prophets. And this isn't like a letter, This isn't something that was sent, And then they all sat down and read it in one sitting. These were collections of things to be Recorded, to be read, to be understood, to be fulfilled. And so if you're like, whoa, what in the world is this like, scrapbook of Topics that Some would flow together, but you're also like, What's going on here? That it is just a little bit different. And that's where having a little bit of context when reading the Bible can really help us because we see, like for example, we'll get into all the letters of Paul, and those were letters, those were things that he wrote down and they would have been Sent, and Read by someone to the Church of wherever he was writing to or to specific person. And that would be red and full. And we still break that up through a reading plan. We don't just sit and read it all. That would be a very long Reading.Then you know we have the Torah. There is this excess Leviticus and the the Mosaic law. Like things that were, I mean still are in Jewish culture read again and again and again. This is what they practice is what they keep this is Things that they should meditate on day and night, and for us who are claiming Christ, It's helpful to just know what we're reading, understanding that these things didn't happen in the Western culture, they happened in Eastern culture. And to even understand that is you might experience a little bit of culture shock, especially if you've not been to the Middle East. The only place I've been over there is Israel, have been quite a few times and The culture is very different, but you could go to.Somewhere in the US, if you live in the US, you go to the different part of it and the culture may be different.The point really is is just to understand OK, what am I reading? How does this play into effect? And I think the reason why that feels so important Is because then we may understand something in a different way than what we had before. And so that's why I even super enjoy reading it chronologically because you can read through the books of the Kings and Also have the psalms with you. And so You don't really get that in another in any other reading plan, unless you're like purposely like reading the story of David and Solomon or something like that. But anyways All of it matters at all plays in together and it's almost like people knew what they were doing.

Prayer

Father, I thank you for your word. I thank you that you give us a longing and desire to know you, to know your word. And God, I pray that that would be renewed each and every single day would give us the. Insight that only you can bring the eyes, the ears, the hands to receive it. And Lord, I just thank you that we have your word we're not just left to and you should believe these things because they happened all these years ago. Let me recite them to you. But we have here living, breathing word. And God, I just thank you for that. And your name we pray, Amen.

Announcements

Dailyaudiobible.com is our website. That's the place of connections where you can see what's happening here in the community, how to get connected and stay connected, so be sure to check that out. We have so many new fun things that are happening Throughout the store this year, the DAB Kids shirt is available, so be sure to check that out if you haven't. You or you have a little one who listens to Ezekiel. They now have their own sweet little merch shirt, so be sure to check that out. That is all for today. I'm China. I love you and I'll be waiting for you here, Tomorrow.

Community Prayer Line

DABC DABC. I don't really call in a lot. This is Gerina from New York and I wanted to answer the prayer request for Romans 8, About compassion. And I think that's the beautiful thing to ask for, especially since we're called to love one another And the body of Christ. But you know, and we need compassion or to do that so Heavenly Father, I just want to thank you For your daughter Romans 8, I want to thank you Father God for her understanding and her awareness of Lord that she needs compassion. Father God, I feel like a lot of us do, so I thank you Father God for her and I pray that you answer her prayers. Father God, I pray that your ears turned towards her as she prays and Access this from you, O Lord, and not only do I pray that you'll give her the spirit of compassion, but I pray that you also protect her heart and her mind. Will Father God, force for someone like that to even remotely think about being passionate, Father God, that is a rare, rare thing, and I pray that you continue to Doesn't hurt old Lord. I thank you for her. I thank you for her life, and I pray that you keep her covered and keep her family covered in Jesus name. Amen.Heard everybody have a good day. 

Good morning DABC. This is just glad to be in North Carolina. I just heard on the chronological side of prayer from Elizabeth in Delaware about her husband and dear Lord Father in heaven. I truly want to lift Elizabeth up but her husband when she explained the surgery that was getting ready to happen tomorrow on the 19th, it honestly gave me chills. Jesus you are healer. So in the precious name of Jesus I pray that these doctors and the staff that has to work on his knee are proficient. And what they do and that even if they find an infection that they will be able to heal it and he will be restored to health. Thank you, Father, for this prayer, Elizabeth. We know that you are always calling in for the prison group, so we thank you for being a a faithful member of. The DABC because this is truly an awesome ministry. I also like to pray for all of those who are calling in for different ailments. Please know that, pardon me, we are here and we do pray for each and every one of you. Thank you so much, Lord, for this website With this podcast, this ministry in Jesus name again, look up to Jesus Elizabeth Prayers again for your husband. This is just glad to be in North Carolina and today I'm just glad to be able to send up a prayer for one of our sisters in Jesus name.Have a good day everyone. God bless Kira contrite spirit. I just wanted to say thank you very much. Just one beloved daughter. By the way, I wanted to say thank you very much for calling in and telling me you and your son's story. And I asked you, dad, I was praying for your son. And thankful to God for a year being healed and That you can relate because you've been on it before. And so I just really, really pray for your son to get better and hopefully healed and thank you for, you know, praying, your wonderful prayer for me and just all your kind words.And I just had to call back and tell you that. And for everyone out there who's prayed for me, I I want to thank you and I should probably say ahead of time when I put in my prayer glass, thank you for praying for me and all your prayers. It really means a lot and.I don't want you to think that.Um, I'm not grateful. So I just, you know, I just want to say thank you now.To everyone. So thank you. Love you. Bye. 

[yjhariani]

Movie Night Banter

Jason Todd X Reader (GN) Word Count: ±760 Warning: Mostly dialogue. I am not used to writing in this form of sentences, might be awkward.

A/N: This is another chance where I submit to my Kahlil Gibran obsession and I do need something to make me feel better about myself lately so I write something that I can indulge something that I learn from college into. As always, further context and resource will be at the end of the piece.

Sometimes, movie night goes emotional. This time, surprisingly, is because of a book to film adaptation. Book to animated film to be exact.

It does sound like something not even Damian would choose to watch. However, it all started last night. Also, yes, Damian was involved.

"This week's theme is book to film adaptation. I say we go with The Portrait of the Lady on Fire," Jason begins.

"No."

"Anything Stephen King?"

"No!"

"Give me suggestions, then," Jason whines.

"My friend just returned from Bali and they did recommend some local books and films. I think they mentioned something about 5 cm and Rainbow Troop. You know, it's just that Rainbow Troop one isn't about queer people," Y/N explains.

"We have foreign film next week," Jason shrugs.

Y/N takes a moment, really thinking about what they think will make Jason be a little emotional.

"What about," Y/N puts a finger on Jason's chest, "The Prophet?"

"I don't think the Bible counts as a book in this category, darlin'," Jason chuckles.

"First, I'm glad you got that right. Kahlil Gibran indeed was a Christian. Second, it's nothing religious. Third, let's invite Damian," Y/N lists, with a mischievous smile.

"What?" Jason raises an eyebrow.

"Oh, Mr I-Spend-My-Free-Time-Reading-Poetry never touched The Prophet?" Y/N scoffs, but immediately cringes, "That sounds wrong."

"Oh, that one," Jason exhales.

Y/N nods in confirmation.

After a moment of consideration, Jason nods.

"Okay. We're not inviting Damian, tho," Jason states. "Can you at least give me a recap of the book? I don't think I'll have time to read it."

"I can't. It's too complex. I'm surprised you haven't read it," Y/N says.

"It's not really my domain," Jason admits.

"One time you made an elaborate presentation about Mahmoud Darwish because you interpret his poem differently from Damian," Y/N recalls.

"We don't talk about it," Jason points out.

***

Now, almost twenty-four hours later, Jason and Y/N are in the middle of the film and Jason aggressively pauses the film. He brushed his hair back with his fingers as he leans forwards, putting his elbows on his knees.

Y/N follows the gestures, a little concern. They put a hand on Jason's back.

"Are you okay?" Y/N asks.

"I can't continue watching this," Jason says, turning towards Y/N, his eyes darkened. "I need to read the book first and that," Jason points at the screen, "if we ever... get married, I want that to be read in our wedding."

Y/N lets out a chuckle.

"Now, give me the book," Jason seriously says.

"Oh, Jason, we can continue watch—"

"I can't," Jason insists. "I need the book!"

"I don't have it, darling," Y/N calmly says. "There's ebooks on the internet."

"No! I want the book," Jason clarifies.

Y/N looks at Jason, seeing his frown. There is a sense of need in his eyes. With that, Y/N holds Jason's hand.

"Damian has it," Y/N informs.

Jason huffs out a blow of air.

"I'll head to his place, then. I'm sorry we have to cancel tonight," Jason says.

"Oh," Y/N chuckles, "I'll keep watching and by the time you return, I'd have finished the movie, sobbing my eyes out, and you're a few pages into the book, also sobbing your eyes out. We'd be crying together all night long. Won't that be romantic?"

"I won't... cry," Jason emphasised.

***

Y/N wakes up with Jason cuddled on their chest. Looking at the window, they see that it is morning already, with the sunshine sliding underneath the curtain.

"Hey," Y/N softly greets, brushing Jason's hair with their fingers.

As a response, Jason lets out a hum without opening his eyes.

"Were you up all night?" Y/N asks.

"I finished the book and watched the movie," Jason murmurs.

"Yeah?" Y/N replies. "How long'd you cry?"

"I didn't cry," Jason insists, "longer than fifteen minutes."

Y/N exhales a bit of air through their nose.

"I won't tell anyone," Y/N promises before pressing a kiss onto Jason's forehead.

Jason lets out a hum before he mumbles, "I love you."

"I love you, too," Y/N replies. "Now, I'm gonna get up and cook breakfast."

"Let's be together when the white wings of death scatter our days," Jason quotes.

"I'm pretty sure that's not how it goes," Y/N chuckles.

"Just... five minutes? Until I fall asleep?" Jason bargains.

Y/N cannot help but smile.

"Alright," Y/N agrees, once more kissing Jason's forehead, which Jason returns with a kiss on their chest.

The Prophet (Book; Project Gutenberg)

The Prophet (Movie; Trailer)

On Marriage (from the book)