Mat & the Aelfinn prophecies
Summary: One of Mat’s prophecies is very different from the others, in both form and execution. Maybe there’s a reason for that.
While this does have spoilers through A Memory of Light, my reasoning is based pretty much entirely on the solo Jordan books, so that’s why I’m posting it now, before I start my reread of The Gathering Storm.
however, spoilers through A Memory of Light are below.
One of things that I dislike about the Mat-Tuon relationship is that it feels like a narrative punishment for Mat (honestly, almost much everything in Ebou Dar and onward felt that way to me). But I’ve been thinking about that while I was reading CoT & KoD, and it made me wonder... what if it wasn’t the author who was punishing Mat here?
What if it was someone inside the narrative?
Mat saving Moiraine helps save the world, because she is able to help Egwene and Rand come to an agreement with each other. Mat living and dying also helps save the world by releasing him from the Horn and enabling someone else to use it (since he’s kinda busy and all). So, if two of Mat’s fates directly help save the world... what about the third fate?
Who does it aid that Mat marries Tuon? Does it aid Mat? Does it aid the Westlands at all? Why would marrying Tuon be part of his ‘fate’?
There not only does not appear to be a benefit to the Westlands & Rand, it actually seems to actively harm the Westlands -- Mat protects Tuon from being assassinated and considers ways to help the Seanchan Empire to survive past the shock of the sul’dam secret being revealed. Mat marrying Tuon also helps protect her/the Seanchan from Westlands retaliation for the invasion of their continent by putting the best general in history on the side of the slavers. Hundreds (potentially thousands) of people will end up staying enslaved as a result of the marriage, if Mat truly does mean to make certain to keep the Seanchan Empire alive in its current form.
It also doesn’t seem to aid Mat himself much -- he is trapped into a marriage where his wife’s way of ‘flirting’ is to constantly threaten to enslave or murder him, while he remains intensely attracted to many other women and obviously would not have chosen a monogamous relationship.
Mat does not end up being the key to the alliance between the Westlands and the Seanchan+ -- he’s much more important to Rand and Egwene reconciling (due to saving Moiraine) than he is to the Westlands and the Seanchan allying, because Rand is already pretty set on allying with the Seanchan at that point, no matter what the moral cost.
Ah, but Mat does... save Moiraine. From the ‘finn, the very people who gave him all his prophecies to begin with.
Mat is given three prophecies by the Aelfinn, in their last moments together in the doorway in Tear. Of those prophecies, two of them would happen no matter what as long as Mat stayed with Rand for as long as he did -- Moiraine made her choice to bodyslam Lanfear into the Eelfinn doorway based on what she saw in the silver rings, not based on what she heard in the Aelfinn doorway. And Mat would have gone to Caemlyn and gotten temporarily killed by Rahvin regardless of the Aelfinn prophecies as well (AMoL confirmed that this is the death that un-tied him from the Horn).
But their other prophecy -- that he would marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons -- is a prophecy that is only fulfilled based on Mat behaving according to how the Aelfinn have instructed him to act. Mat marries Tuon because they tell him to, no other reason. Before he finds out that she’s his prophesied wife, he was planning to leave her behind when he escaped; he was not attracted enough to Tuon as a person to consider bringing her with him on her own merits.
So this marriage seems entirely arranged by the Aelfinn and not by the Pattern*. Why would they do that?
Could it have been a punishment/price from the Aelfinn, who already know that Mat is destined to come back and steal Moiraine from them?
Tuon is perfectly calculated to be everything that Mat hates: capable of channeling, she’s a noble/royal, she abuses her power over other people and expects complete subservience from those around her, she threatens him constantly, she treats him as if he were her property, she would enslave his sister and other loved ones if she had the chance, and he doesn’t even want to be in a monogamous relationship to begin with.
In CoT & KoD, Mat talks himself into respecting and trusting her ‘because wife’ (which leads to her being able to undermine and betray him on multiple occasions such as attempting to leash the Aes Sedai in the circus or stealing his medallion) but even in their final scene in AMoL, he has to force a smile around her after she announces her pregnancy. This marriage is going to be a misery for Mat and yet there appears to be no in-text reason why it actually needed to happen. It happens because it happens because it happens.
We are warned that the Aelfinn and Eelfinn are tricky and that there is no way to beat them. It does feel much in the spirit of a fey sort of person if they gave Mat two types of prophecies: two true no matter what as long as he followed his thread of fate, and the third to exist as the price for learning the others.
And, side note and relevant to @markantonys: on rereading the text, the only ACTUAL prophecy that the Aelfinn specifically tell him will get him killed if he avoids it is that he needs to go to Rhuidean rather than going home to the Two Rivers (and it’s specifically because he will get MURDERED by people opposed to him fulfilling his fate if he doesn’t go there -- and this one is very believable! He gets the ancient memories and the medallion in Rhuidean and those are KEY to him being able to survive potentially deadly encounters with Shadowspawn & survive through dangerous battles).
He weedles the other three prophecies out of them at the end and there’s no direct implication that avoiding those three fates would lead to his death. I myself also thought that marrying Tuon was linked to him not getting killed but that implication is actually not in the text! And even if she is his ‘fated’ wife, it’s also clear in the text that he can avoid his fate, because this entire encounter is the Aelfinn warning him NOT to avoid going to Rhuidean because it would lead to him being vulnerable to being killed by his enemies. Mat decides that him ‘living and dying again’ (which he mistakenly thinks is about being hanged by the Eelfinn in Rhuidean, so there is also in-text evidence that Mat has misinterpreted at least one of his prophecies) is proof that it’s also impossible for him to escape the DotNM but there actually isn’t evidence in the text that this in the case. On the contrary, it seems like it IS possible for Mat to avoid this part of his fate and would, in fact, have been extremely easy for him to have avoided it (if he hadn’t known about the prophecy), since he would have just... left at the end of Winter’s Heart and never seen Tuon again, having absolutely no idea that she was ever meant to be his fated anything.
References from the text (The Shadow Rising):
“If you do not go to Rhuidean,” the woman on the right said. “You will die.”
...
Mat asks, “Why will I die if I do not go to Rhuidean?”
“You will have sidestepped the thread of fate, left your fate to drift on the winds of time, and you will be killed by those who do not want that fate fulfilled.”
...
He persists and asks, “What fate?”
“To marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons.” (which becomes possible as a result of going to the Eelfinn, which gives him his memory of Artur Hawkwing’s face, but also becomes possible because they just told him about it)
“To die and live again, and live once more as part of what was.” (this is locked into place just by staying by Rand’s side; which Mat would ‘sidestep’ by going home to the Two Rivers instead of staying with Rand)
“To give up half the light of the world to save the world.” (this is locked into place by Moiraine’s choices and by Mat going to Salidar by Rand’s command, as that’s what makes him meet Thom again)
Both of the second two prophecy fulfillments flow naturally from Mat’s character development and his nature; but marrying tDotNM remains a jarring departure from his previous characterization even when it happens.
+It’s possible that it was Jordan’s original INTENTION that any Seanchan alliance would hinge on Mat being married to Tuon (with him being a ‘binding cord’ like Aviendha was supposed to be between Rand & the Aiel due to their relationship, which Jordan also basically dropped as a concept) but that’s not how he ended up writing it, whether that was because he wanted to punt all moral issues to the outriggers or for other reasons, because in order to make Mat marrying Tuon key to getting Seanchan support for the Last Battle, there were two key mistakes Jordan made:
Jordan needed to not have Mat be the one making all the concessions in their ‘relationship’. Jordan just couldn’t bring himself to ever let Tuon be vulnerable, for whatever reason (maybe the same reason he glorified Cadsuane’s bullying). But, regardless of the reasons, making the Mat-Tuon relationship one where he never fights her on anything important means that it’s absolutely useless in political terms and doesn’t really count as a ‘marriage alliance’.
Jordan should not have ALREADY had Rand willing to make peace with the Seanchan no matter what the cost. Honestly, this one point is enough to render the Mat-Tuon marriage entirely pointless. Rand was already willing to bend on slavery and humble himself for Tuon, thus making it so that (once again, a familiar refrain with Tuon’s storyline) Rand must make all the important concessions while Tuon makes barely any at all and gets to keep on trucking along in her untouched slaver bubble where she never has to admit she’s anything less than perfect and The Only Real Person In The World. If it really did take Mat’s magic...skills in the bedroom... for Tuon to even be willing to listen to Rand, then the Westlands would have been much better off with her assassinated by Suroth anyway, because she’s already so far off the deep end that she’s unsalvageable.
*Note: I am not considering Tuon’s own prophecy in this analysis because she gets hers so late in the game -- she hears the prophecy from the damane literally the day before she lands in Ebou Dar and meets Mat for the first time, when all the rest of the pieces are already in place for the forced marriage -- Mat already heard his prophecy months ago, Mat already has the memories, Mat already is trapped in Ebou Dar and wants to get out. By the time Tuon gets her prophecy, Mat’s side of things has been set in stone, so the prophecy is a true prophecy for her, due to Mat’s actions, as guided by the Aelfinn.
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"there's no basis or case to be made for will having powers" okay then genuinely please explain any of the following now after watching season four:
why does the upside down look like hawkins and is presumably stuck on the day will arrived despite the fact that vecna was there first and has been residing there this whole time? if vecna was capable of reshaping the world, as he's stated he wants to do, why hasn't he done it in his own world? why is he so intent on seeking out the person for whom time apparently stopped if it's all just coincidence? if will didn't do that and he doesn't have powers, then why didn't time progress or the setting change once the teenagers got there? why was time only influenced by will and will alone if he has no powers whatsoever?
how was will able to call joyce multiple times? the only person we've seen so far be able to do something similar is eleven when she would channel what she heard through the radio. electricity doesn't work in the upside down, so how did will do that? why did it cause a shock and ruin the phone, the same way that the radio went up in flames when eleven did it, if he doesn't have powers?
how did he manage to wake joyce up at one point? (it could've been her imagination, but the show made it pretty clear that joyce had been right about everything the entire time even though everyone thought she was crazy, and will was wearing the same outfit but he looked and sounded distressed + exhausted like he may have been while hiding in his upside down version of the house.)
how was will able to see his mother and guide her with the lights to the place he was hiding?
how was will able to see the letters she wrote on the wall?
how was will able to light up the lights that fast and sometimes simultaneously? especially with the lights that were on the ceiling? the way he communicated with joyce isn't totally similar to the way the teens communicated with the party in season four. he's too short to reach the ceiling and he doesn't have elasti-arms or super speed, so he couldn't have been touching that many lights that fast all by himself with his own hands. if anything, it's more similar to the training exercise brenner had the lab kids do, because they didn't need to touch the lights (obviously) to control them. so, how do you explain that if he has no powers?
how did he acquire true sight before his possession? the doctors thought it was ptsd and all in his head, but just like with joyce, we come to learn that will had been right the entire time. the mind flayer was real and it was coming for them all and eventually it did. how did he know that? how could he have had such knowledge before it ever melded minds and bodies with him? no other powerless human could do that, so how do you explain it?
if will is truly a powerless human being, why did vecna hunt him down? we know that vecna stalks his prey before he strikes. we know that "the monster" followed will from mike's house all the way to the shed where they vanished without a trace. we then saw it stalk will again and eventually possess him. will said that vecna wanted to kill everyone else, but not him. why? we know that vecna doesn't care about people. so what did will have that he wanted so bad? what was it about will that made him more valuable to vecna—a self-perceived god among useless, pitiful, and brutish men—alive than dead? what was it about will, a supposed powerless and normal human boy, that made vecna want to spare him and use him? if he wanted access to the lab, weapons, or tools that could bring down entire nations and rendered millions around the globe defenseless to his attack, then he wouldn't have picked a sweet twelve year old boy who lives a tiny little life in a tiny little town who just wants to hang with his friends and play games. unless... he was the key to achieving his plans? but according to this argument that will is just a normal boy, why is it then that vecna did all of that if will isn't capable of anything?
additionally, we know that gates are opened with a psychic connection. when the psychic connection was made in that shed, will entered the upside down. there, he was hunted for a week. why did the demogorgons kill and eat everyone else, but never will? why did they only carry him to the library aka the source of it all? why didn't they treat him roughly or eat him like they did all of the others? will didn't suffer any serious damage from the upside down, so he couldn't have been "dead" for long when his parents found him. why was it different with him? why did he get special treatment even in hell if he's just a boy?
why does will still sense the creatures of the upside down even after he's been exorcised? how is it that the psychic connection is still there? how is he still able to know what vecna is feeling, the kind of state that he's in, and what it is that he's planned? how does he have this connection still even though he shouldn't if he's Just Some Guy?
if will was just a normal, powerless boy... then why did a self-proclaimed god try so hard to recruit him more than once? why did it hunt only him? why did this god want to kill everyone but him? why did this god deem him more worthy and useful in life and at his side than in death? why did it seek him out and not eleven, a girl who actually has powers, powers that were once stronger than his own even and that he clearly wanted as we saw in s3? why is the upside down stuck on the day will went missing, despite it clearly being inhabited by other creatures that we assume to be more powerful than him? why is will going to be central to season five, the season where it will all come to a close and we'll be learning about the upside down and more, if... he's Just Some Guy that had to brave it for a week and that's it? why did season four (and the show overall, but said outright and explicitly here in 4x09) reiterate that it has always been vecna and that will has always been his victim/in his sights/connected to him? why did vecna choose will byers, who some of you claim to be Just Some Boy, of literally all people on planet fucking earth to achieve his plans?
vecna stalked will. he hunted him. and when his plans were foiled, he tried again. when he couldn't do it his way, he sought to kill eleven so that he could absorb her powers (s3). and now, they're back in each other's heads. the silver cat fed when blue met yellow in the west, but they're back now and we've been told that this is only the beginning. if will is just another powerless human, then what is the point of any of that? how do you explain everything that we've seen? how do you explain the choices these characters have made and continue to make? how do you explain away the connection that they keep drawing our eyes to? the connection that shocked the duffers and made them ask jamie if he'd seen the scripts when he brought it up (that it all goes back to will, how everything and everyone is connected to will)? the connection that they themselves are saying we'll see clearly in season five?
that isn't even scratching the surface of all the obvious instances where they make it clear that will is vecna's narrative foil, because that would make this already gargantuan post thirty miles longer.
they wouldn't have done everything that they've done over the span of multiple seasons now if it was just for nothing.
it doesn't make sense if will is just some normal kid and a random fluke in the master plan. the writers could've had vecna pick anyone. they could have made it so that will's connection was severed or lessened, but they didn't. they could've admitted that will was just a meaningless casualty, but they didn't because he wasn't. it wasn't a random animal that took will, he wasn't possessed for shits and giggles, and he doesn't continue to have that psychic connection for no reason. they don't tell us that nothing is a coincidence and they don't have the characters themselves remind us that they need will just for it to be... nothing.
will knows what's coming, what's happening, and the condition of the person who will do it all. why have him experience all of that, and even be able to in the first place, if he's... powerless? how do you even explain the connection in the first place? no other character, not even the ones cursed by vecna, are able to do what he's done. how is that not considered a power? and how do you write off the hours of content that you've witnessed as nothing?
clearly, at some point you have to realize that something is going on, no? like, you don't even have to take my (one-too-many) word(s) for it. jamie and the duffers themselves have been saying it over and over again. so... honestly, what's not clicking?
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「 @blasterexceed 」 | 「 some Ahmeshiki to break in the new assets yeahyeahyeah 」
Toshiki had always been in a state of 'worse for wear', but today was turning out to be different. He was freshly bathed, tended to in every sense of the word and looked rather presentable all things considered.
His hair had been combed through, a light fragrance hanging in the air around him that completely masked the lingering scent of char and blood that usually stuck stubbornly to his person. At least, to him it was beyond notice. The more sensitive noses of vampires surely could still smell the damages hidden masterfully under Toshiki's brilliant attire.
As brilliant as it was... it was also... rather stiff, to say the least. He was used to wearing the more well-worn and broken-in clothes of blood servants who needn't look their best to serve their purpose.
--But like this... Like this he could stand aside the prince and not look so out of place.
A light rosy hue touches the backs of his ears where his longer hairs had been tucked behind, leaving them exposed to the cool air brought in through Ahmes's opened balcony doors.
This...... He wasn't used to it at all
He looks at himself in the large mirror on the wall inside the prince's chambers and can barely recognize himself by his reflection alone. None of the scars were visible... none of the wear and tear that he had grown used to seeing whenever he saw himself. He'd even recovered enough for tonight to take off the bandages that he'd been wearing for so long now that they nearly became a second skin to him. But he can see it in his reflected eyes that it was him; through the sapphire blue hues staring back at him he focuses on the sole detail his entire outfit had been made to frame.
The golden collar decorating his throat shone glaringly back at him in the candlelight. The accents on his clothes were all chosen to accentuate that one detail that tied him to the prince's care.
The collar had been the centerpiece, but Toshiki couldn't bring himself to hate that fact.
That's when he notices a change in the air, and finds behind him a ruby red gaze meeting his blue one in the surface of the mirror.
❝ Ahmes... ❞
Rubied hues such as that were the tell tale sign it was the prince and no other. Red eyes belonged to every vampire here, despite how their hues varied. Junos' had a shade akin to that of an aged wine, while Ashlei's brighter color favored more on the pink spectrum similar to petals of a springtime flower. Then there was Percival, who's eyes reminded Toshiki of the rust that grew on the neglected swords lining the smithery's walls.
But Ahmes' were the purest form of red Toshiki had ever seen. They were bright on the surface, yet deep and full-bodied the longer one would look into them. It was as if they were precious stones set perfectly in the prince's face.
He turns his back on his reflection then, offering the prince a softened smile. Seeing the prince in such elaborate clothing should be a common sight by now, but to Toshiki it was like a newfound experience every time. He looked absolutely breathtaking, it took the human a couple seconds too many to stop gawking and remember what they had been dressed up for. And once he does, that smile was quick to fade as he looks back over his shoulder to eye the mirror once more.
❝ Are you sure about this...? About having me attend...? ❞
Toshiki's hands then move to clasp together, a sudden twinge in his damaged nerves causing him some discomfort as he recalls the last time he accompanied the prince to an event such as this. Ahmes clearly couldn't enjoy himself then, not when Toshiki had kept his attention despite the king's efforts to start incorporating his son in the more important matters surrounding his bloodline.
--Would he be risking Ahmes' position further by following his own innate desire to remain beside him?
...His reflection now shows him as he now stands next to the prince.
His heart wants to soar at the shared sight, but it's far too heavy and only sinks.
...together. Together like this? Was he truly allowed to--
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