#they both involve avoidance it’s just that one is based off fear and inferiority

[romance-incubomp3]

being avoidant in childhood and teens and then turning schizoid is such a weird experience, it’s like you become a completely different person. you grow up craving close friends but you feel so deeply inferior that you can’t make them yourself because you’re so terrified you’ll embarrass yourself or be hated. you yearn so much for connection that it eats you up. every new person you meet you see as a potential friend but it very rarely happens. and then something happens. you’re rejected or ostracized one too many times. you grow distant from too many people in your life. you’re deeply hurt by people who were closest to you and who you thought loved you. you lose too much in a short period of time. then the stress and trauma causes your brain to change again, and suddenly it doesn’t matter anymore. you couldn’t care less about making friends. you don’t miss the friends you do have when you can’t be with them. you don’t want human connection and cut off the part of you that used to want it. you become apathetic to others. you can no longer remember what it was like to yearn for friends and deep connections. you can’t relate to the person you once were at all. and the thing is you don’t really care.

[aros001]

First time read through light novel vol. 8. Random thoughts.

...So...does anyone else feel a little uncomfortable with that cover image between Reinhard and Felt? I mean, I know he's not going to do anything sexual to her and she's not as young as I originally thought she was (I think vol. 1 said she was 15, while ever since the anime I thought she was like 10 or something), but she still is underage, being forced into wearing and doing something she doesn't want to by a grown man, and I think just the way he's got his hand holding her bare thigh makes it feel more sexual than it should be.

Also, is Wilhelm floating? The heck is he sitting on?

Subaru was afraid of death. Dying constantly trashed his life with an unbearable sense of fear and loss. He thought it was like that for everyone; he assumed that was how it had to be. Subaru, who had experienced death more than anyone via Return by Death, didn’t want anyone else to know what it was like.

I'm definitely seeing more similarities between Subaru and Ferris here than I did in the anime. I like how they both have a more unique perspective on life and death than most people would; Subaru from his Return By Death and Ferris from being such a powerful healer (to the point he can even regenerate himself from near death, I guess). Again, for a series where death can be undone so easily, it really knows how to use that premise to show just how weighty and serious death is. While the two will and do kill, it sits with them more than it does for others because they know just how awful death can be.

Something I've really enjoyed when reading through various LN series after watching the anime first is that I end up liking certain characters that I didn't in the anime. I didn't hate Ferris but the cutesy way he talked really bugged me and I didn't focus on him much. Here though I'm definitely getting a better feel for his character, especially with how much he values life, cursing at the suicidal witch cult members for tossing theirs away so easily. He and Subaru's back and forth makes the ending feel that much more heartbreaking when Ferris has to mercy kill the possessed Subaru.

Also, just to clear up any confusion I have, is Ferris in drag or does he identify as a woman? I don't have any problem referring to him from now on as a "she" (I never had that problem with Magne in My Hero Academia) but I'd prefer to get my facts straight. Ferris also makes a joke about Subaru swinging over to his side of the fence but I'm not sure if that means he's gay or not. It's a little hard to tell how far his affection for Crusch runs, for example.

Similarly, there's Julius, a character I never disliked in the anime, but I can definitely see more of a path to him and Subaru becoming friends here. It is funny that a comment from Ferris got me thinking how something to two have in common is how easy it is for them to get others to immediately dislike them just by talking. For Subaru it's because he too often talks without thinking, shoving his foot into his mouth, and for Julius it's how unintentionally snobbish and "better-than-you" he can sound. It's also nice that the story is getting Subaru to try and work through his issues, acknowledging that he's being unfair towards Julius, whom really has done nothing wrong aside from unintentionally pricking at Subaru's inferiority complex.

Like Subaru, I thought demon beasts and monsters were just so common in the world that a barrier around a lord's domain was a very common thing. But from how the other characters in-story are talking, it sounds like Roswaal deliberately put his domain and the village in the center of (or at least nearby) a demon beast habitat. Even in the anime I always believed he knew more than he let on but here he feels like a straight-up mastermind with everything he's been pulling behind the scenes and all the things he's done that, as of yet, have no explanation or reason behind them. Just what is he up to?

One thing I'll say about this series in comparison to some others I've seen/read; the dark magic here, like with the Witch of Envy, Return By Death, the White Whale, and the Unseen Hands, really feels like DARK magic. I've seen series that have their own version of dark magic that'll make bad things happen or summon demons or sacrifice people, but this? Everything to do with the witch feels creepy and unnatural, like it's not or should not be part of the world. With how much suffering it's caused, the mystery behind the gospel, just how unhinged Petelgeuse is and his body jumping, it all feels like stuff you should really not be messing with. Even at the end with Subaru running off and Julius finding him, getting no response at first from Subaru, feels like something out of a horror movie.

Subaru keeps getting asked if he's Pride, to which I'm assuming they mean if he's the one to become the Archbishop of Pride. Personally, my theory is that because of how much the witch seems to "favor" him, Subaru is Envy, like, well, the Witch of Envy and the only one of the seven sins they never mention to have an archbishop, given Satella destroyed the other witches. If that's the case, I can only imagine how much that's going to piss off all the other archbishops, that after all their shows of devotion some schmuck came to their world out of nowhere and became Satella's favorite.

“Lending one’s strength does not mean merely swinging one’s sword. It means challenging the same foes, worrying over the same obstacles, sharing the wounds and the weight of the burdens. This we can do. This is the lesson I learned in the past.”

Obviously this is meant primarily for Subaru but I can't help but think it can apply to Rem and Emilia as well. With the exception of Puck, Emilia tends to go out of her way to avoid involving others in her problems or having them feel they owe her anything when she helps with theirs. Rem dedicated a good chunk of her life to live as her sister's replacement after Ram lost her horn and tried to kill all the demon dogs on her own after Subaru was cursed saving her. They both seem determined to bear the weight of their burdens solely on their own, like they're the only ones who need to suffer. Subaru goes back and forth on how much he involves others in his problems, but while he's more than willing to help ease the burdens on others, his problem for the longest time was that he was so fixated on "swinging his sword", as he thought fighting and strength was the only way to help (probably because strength would honestly solve a decent chunk of his own problems).

“Two days ago, the forest around the mansion became unnaturally calm... to the point that even my eyes could catch nothing. Thereupon, an armed group appeared bearing the crest of the House of Karsten, which had declared war with the blank letter... Surely you cannot blame my little bird’s heart for being on the verge of breaking?”

Ram, I had no idea how much I missed you until you came back.

Namely, that someone out there had swapped his letter of goodwill, aiming to turn Emilia and Crusch against each other.

I don't think a line or speculation like this was in the anime, which it probably should have been. Without it, it just seems like Subaru's an idiot and made a stupid mistake, but now it seems like someone is directly manipulating events behind the scenes. Personally, I'd say my money's on Roswaal if I didn't have terrible luck when it comes to gambling.

“Silence! Cease your prattle! Give that book back, right—”

“Hey, don’t shout. If you get too angry, you know—your brain’ll shake.”

...

“G...gah...! How dare you, dare you, dare youuuu! My disciple of love!!”

“Don’t gimme that, you’re the one who mixed us up! Tunnel vision! What, are you lazy?!”

HA!

Overlord was the first light novel series I read (the only other LN I'd read before was Death Note: Another Note - The Los Angeles BB Murder Cases and that was years ago), so naturally it's the series I tend to make the most comparisons to for the other series I've been reading. In this case, something I really like about both Ainz and Subaru is that, despite how they're presented sometimes, neither is actually stupid (though they too often suck at reading the room). They're both just in situations way over their head and they have no frame of reference for how to deal with these fantasy world situations. Subaru, like with tricking Sloth into getting attacked by demon beast or figuring out what was up with the flowers, has plenty of times where he shows he can come up with decent plans or quick thinking that can pull off a win. His flaws are based more in his own immaturity and need to grow more as a person.

Honestly, Ainz and Subaru are fun to compare because, of the LN MCs I've read so far, they both seem to get every break the other doesn't. Ainz is obvious. He's got actual power, tons of resources, and numerous people whose faith in him is absolute, while Subaru has almost nothing save for the curse and the clothes on his back and has to continuously struggle to make any difference. On the other hand, Ainz has no one in his life he can relate to or be his real self around, making him feel incredibly empty and lonely, while Subaru has attracted a surprisingly wide web of people around him whom, despite some hiccups, do genuinely believe in the real him.

I am 90% certain Emilia and Puck fighting Sloth wasn't in the anime. Well, no wonder anime-only fans have trouble liking her when you cut out nearly all of the character's best sh*t! [Edit: I was wrong. Another post pointed out it was at the end of ep 23. Like I said, it's been a bit since I saw the anime and I remembered none of this fight. Though I still stand by that LN Emilia is better than anime Emilia] Like I've said before, it's not like anime Emilia could just be replaced with a sexy lamp and nothing would be different, but compared to the LN version she really didn't get a lot to do in the anime outside of the first arc. She wants to be queen and sometimes heals people. Otherwise she was mostly off-screen or serving as Subaru's object of affection (and sometimes obsession). Just being able to fight isn't everything but Emilia here certainly feels like she has a lot more fire to her personality and does more when she appears. She's not just a nice, pretty girl for the MC to fight for.

Somehow, he’d died again. He’d probably lost it all once more.

He surrendered everything to the abyss. This was the familiar embrace of failure after he pathetically lost his life.

Look back at the world.

Look back at your failures.

Don’t forget. Don’t forget. Do not forget.

Ferris’s tear-filled voice. Wilhelm’s lament, shaking with regrets. Julius’s resolve and remorse, so great he probably gnashes his teeth over it—Don’t forget, ever. No matter how low you are, don’t ever let go.

Is this Satella saying this to Subaru? I'd assume so since it ends with the "I love you" line Subaru's been getting before he RBDs. But if so, why is she saying this to him? One theory is that she has her own regrets from her life and is giving Subaru a chance not to have the same. That assumes she is a good person and that the stories around her are wrong. Another theory, given the Witch of Envy title, is that she's insisting Subaru never let go of what's his. It's his (and hers, since he is hers) and no one else can have it. I mean, that applies more to greed than envy, I suppose, but stretching a bit you could say she'd be jealous of a world moving on without her.

Original Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Re_Zero/comments/gwjfwy/novels_first_time_read_through_light_novel_vol_8/

[larrydrosalez]

I like relaxed language and I like blackness. This anthology is a celebration of both.

tawk  

Sometimes we’re afraid to talk. Yes, WE. This might be about black talkin, but this here is for you too Sandy-Sue and Jin-Woo.  I know you’ve had those days when somethin forces you to speak or preach or teach something you’d be much better off talkin about. You scour your brain in search of synonyms you learned in an English class (some time ago) or for some phrase you picked up from your favorite politically active musician – all for nada – because, in your scavenger-hunt for eloquence, you end up with 1000 syllables that don’t say anything.  Trust me, I know the feeling. (Deleting those Gs and forgoing those apostrophes a few lines up still has me wary of some impending doom.  O_o)  [imagine the courage it took to include an emoticon.]

    It is this fear of writing the way I feel most comfortable expressing myself that convinced me that this anthology needed to be compiled. It needed to be compiled and needs to be delivered to every writer that thinks their words aren’t good enough and to every reader that thinks some writer’s metaphors are too big and meaning too small. I want this anthology to combat any notion that in poetry white high-language is right language and that slang is to be reserved for Langston Hughes and Maya Angelou. This anthology, black-tawk, is intended to act as an examination of Black-American identity in contemporary poets through their specific use of colloquial vernacular, to be referred to as black-talk. These poems are compiled in order to reject “high language” (white-talk) as the only suitable means of intelligent and normative expression and that slave-talk is the only example of recognizable black expression. I seek to find a contemporary river of black voices that flow somewhere between a Mattie and a Michael Eric Dyson (and certainly above a Tyler Perry.)

     So what does black-talk between a Mattie and a Dyson sound like? It sounds like black people you hear talking every day. There are no meanings lost in abstract metaphor, no need to keep a library assistant on call and there’s the occasional glimpse of slang. Nah, I ain’t only talkin ‘bout that talk you hurd on the corner’a 3rd and Main, because while that’s beautiful, this anthology hopes to reveal subtle currents of vernacular that black poets use to express blackness. Of course there’s more than a heap of uses of slang’s shining star - “ain’t,” but he’s joined by “nuff” and “betcha” and even “cd” (could.) And these are sometimes decorated by the absence of punctuation that lends itself to an exploration of space and caesura to create natural and lulling speech patterns that mimic the way black people talk. You won’t find Queen’s English here. Nothing like what Jamil (Robert Sims) in his poem “pre-sentence Report” (page____) refers to as “…nouns that // old Sigmund couldn’t EVEN spell.” Though in his poem Sims speaks of medical jargon, there are certainly poets that employ a sort of poetic jargon requires too much energy to decipher.

    Not that deciphering is all bad, we wouldn’t want lazy readers, but when simplicity is forgone merely to sound poetic, the authenticity that makes poetry beautiful is lost. Stephanie Pruitt, a young poet from Nashville, could write novels about the process and love involved in getting her hair hot combed in the kitchen – but she doesn’t need to. Her haiku “Hair raising” (page _____) is beautiful in its ability to, concisely, resonate with black girls everywhere. “Hair burning in the kitchen” could easily become “kinky fibers laid straight by heated comb permeates the air in the place meals are made,” but it doesn’t need to. Now the form of haiku is innately simple but this same current of simplicity can be found throughout the anthology in various forms.

 black

Sometimes we’re afraid to be black. Yes WE. This might be about black talkin but if you change black to “chino” or “country” this here is for you too Jose and Billy-Rae. It’s about black talkin because black talkin is what I know best. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been made to feel afraid to express my blackness (or asian-ness or mexican-ness.) If a university environment is any representation of the real world, and I fear it may be more forgiving of race, people don’t want black people to be black. Every scorned sagging pant, every kinky twist pressed to oblivion, every set of braids chopped off for a job where suits and ties are need can serve as a testament that black people aren’t allowed to be black.

Oh, but that’s not true, we have a black president! – right, having one black president negates the pressure every white professor ceo quarterback vice-president student government official city official member of congress  employed contributing member of society member of congress places on black people to act white right.

…

…

I needed space to let that sit. The minority will always be made inferior when evaluated against the majority. Being black isn’t wrong, it’s just not being white. There are thousands of conversations to be had about blackness and black identity and defining what “black” is, but this is not a research paper and I am not an anthropological expert on the matter. So you ask, what does blackness have to do with this poetry anthology, and what does that contribute to life? Well, blackness is in the everyday things that black people do. There is no singular blackness. If you’re a black girl that gets a perm and a silky-smooth 32” Remy, you’re exuding blackness just as much as the sister pickin her afro every morning. If you’re a black boy with clean locks sitting proudly on the shoulder pads of your new Armani suit, you’re exuding blackness just as much as the scruffy brother in the newest Js and a tall-tee (although I personally detest tall-tees, that doesn’t negate the blackness found wearing it.)

Since poetry is a manifestation of expression based on personal experiences, black poets should be allowed to be black poets, right? No. An Essay by Evie Shockley entitled “All of the above: Multiple choice and African American Poetry” included in the introduction to the anthology “Rainbow Darkness,” edited by Keith Tuma, examines the reasons black authors are not allowed to be black authors. In short, he states (and I agree) that black authors (I would say all black artists) are subjected to “the poetics litmus test.” They must be judged based on political allegiances and racial “authenticity” rather than ability or talent. If a poet talks like Langston Hughes, they are authentically black, which is good, but they are a “black” poet not an “American” poet. According to Shockley, in order to receive the privileges “American” poets are afforded:

“An African American poet has had to avoid writing in styles or about subjects that are recognizably “black” in favor of “universal themes” and conventional aesthetics. Or  she could slip in the back door by appearing willing to narrate ‘the black experience’ for white consumption in ways that do not fundamentally deconstruct white (liberal) understandings of race or directly advocate revolutionary social change.”

This provides a perfect explanation concerning why black poets are pressured away from talking black. Even I question whether or not I want to be “that black poet” every time my mind wants to pen a thought about kinky hair, “unique” names, or encounters with racism. Just as the fear of talking convinced me of the necessity of this anthology, the fear of being black doubly convinces me that there are people that need this.

 black-tawk

I like relaxed language and I like blackness and this anthology is a celebration of both. These poets aren’t afraid to be black even when they’re not talking about black things. This collection includes poets just talkin and poets just being black and poets talkin about being black – none afraid to share their identity and the language they speak. Ntozake Shange isn’t afraid to write poems in a manner that is supposed to be talked. Sapphire sees the significance of what Claireece P. Jones has to say, and how she says it. Celes Tisdale saw the need for people to hear what inmates from Attica think. All of these voices have been gathered to fight the fear of being Black regular Mexican Asian poor Jamaican poorly-educated well-educated strange normal smart dumb black-tawking.

black-tawk is right. Don’t be shamed of it. These are your peers.

  my tawk

    And now that I’ve splattered you with my thoughts/rants about blackness and language and wooed you with my semi-intellectual prowess, I’d like to free myself of the black burden – a burden that has weighed heavy on my mind since I started compiling these poems. What is the black burden you ask? For me, it is the false interpretation that any black voice is THE black voice. To those reading in hopes of better understanding the black race based solely on the compilation of a 22-year-old-half-black-half-mexican-and-japanese-middle-class-college-guy I say:  I am not THE black voice. I am not THE black voice. I am not THE black voice.  I, like the poems selected for this anthology, do not represent the entire black race or encompass all Black-American identity. There is no anthology or single person that does. I, and these poems, do however represent a current of thought, a movement, towards talking. Towards tawking. Towards tawking black. black-tawk. Enjoy.

[it-will-not-last-the-night]

PQ2-Persona 3 Characters

I play this game slowly for a number of reasons: (1) I like drawing games out because I enjoy them more that way and (2) I played it intermittently, put it down when FE3H came out, then picked it up again, then got DLC for TW3K and put it down again etc. etc. I find it an easy game to put down and get back into.

However, I am now at the end, only Enlil remains and the Velvet Rangers. Since I want to complete the game fully I’m now doing the monotonous and boring task of farming the Reaper to get to Lv 89 with Ren so I can Wild Growth my core party to his Level, get Huang Di, and finish off the Velvet Rangers. Seriously though, who thought I’d reach a point where I’m bullying the poor Reaper and getting bored of the fight? He doesn’t even get me halfway to a full level now!

Anyway. So, with the end approaching, I thought I’d do for the P3 cast what I did for the P4 cast. I decided in the end to actually not watch/read anything about P3 or P4 till I finish PQ2, to form opinions based around it purely from PQ2, then once I’m done with it I’ll go watch LP’s of P3 and P4 to see how wrong (or right!) I got things.

Without further ado my feelings towards the P3 cast solely as they are presented in PQ2:

Exceptions:

I’m starting us off with exceptions. What are exceptions? Exceptions are characters who, for whatever reason, I feel their are circumstances that make them difficult for me to really discuss as a fully-fleshed character. They aren’t necessarily bad, but something about them means I don’t really see them as a fully rounded or developed character like the rest.

P3 Protagonist: Like the P4 Protagonist and Ren I just struggle to form any feelings or attachments to this character. I’ve said before I *suck* at self-insertion. I just do. In FE3H my least favourite character is Byleth, wish I could get rid of them, as I find the relationships between characters with more detailed and fleshed out characteristics and dialogue far more interesting. The P3 Protagonist isn’t bad but, compared to the rest, just feels shallow and uninteresting. He also shares the same problem as all four Protagonists in that I am sick and tired of how much their own teams have to constantly shill them like they’re the greatest thing ever. Ugh. It’s the most annoying thing to me about these self-insert characters, everyone has to stop every ten minutes to remind the player how they’re better than everyone and worship the ground they walk on. I hate it. Anyway; so, yeah, ultimately I find the P3 Protagonist, like Ren and the P4 Protagonist, just not as fully developed or realized in PQ2, and so see them as an exception.

Koromaru: He’s a dog. He’s cute, fun, a great mascot, but he doesn’t have detailed characteristics or interesting personality and dynamics with the other members. But he’s a dog, so, that’s not strange. So I see this as an exception.

Favourite:

These are the P3 Characters who I enjoyed most of all in PQ2.

P3 Female Protagonist: So can someone explain to me why the creators decided to give the Female Protagonist alone a detailed personality and demeanour? Not to mention something like double the amount of spoken dialogue as the other protagonists? Unlike Ren and the other two male Protagonists who barely say much at all and are difficult to define personality-wise beyond ‘cool, loved by all, sometimes make sarcastic remarks’ the Female Protagonist is heavily fleshed out: she’s an energetic and over-enthusiastic type, the ‘charge in head’s first’ type who doesn’t show much in the way of the stoic ‘cool’ calm of the others, and is very effusive and evocative in her mannerisms. She’s dealing with an internal feeling of isolation and inferiority, which she tries to hide from others, and is highly sociable in her engagement with her peers. She was a lot of fun and makes a big impact early with her ‘let me dress up as a policewoman and then karate chop this guard out cold’ routine. Her interactions with Futaba early on are great, almost like an older siser, although sadly those do taper off. Junpei and Yukari have quite good interactions with her as well, the most consistent people involved in her ‘am I out of place’ feelings, and I enjoyed that. I was surprised how there is so little interaction between her and her male counterpart though, would have thought that would be a good well of inspiration. 

Mitsuru: So what I love about Mitsuru is that she and Makoto are not just clones of each other. With Mitsuru also being a ‘older, colder, intelligent, authoritative’ figure I feared that the two would be very similar. But they aren’t. Mitsuru is vastly more secure in herself and confident than Makoto, who still has severe issues with her self-esteem. Indeed Mitsuru is actually kind of awesome in how confident she is. Similarly whilst Makoto is far more an advisor Mitsuru, quite honestly, comes across as if actually SHE leads the P3 cast and the protagonists are just their trump cards. Mitsuru almost always calls every shot for her team and makes the decisions, with their own respective protagonists usually just providing power. I do also enjoy that Mitsuru seems not to have the ‘I’m smart so the stupid member of our team I will always harass’ trait as her critiques of Junpei tend to purely focus on him not taking their situation to seriously and never go to the point of insulting his intelligence as Morganna does with Ryuji in the vanilla game and Royal. I also really liked Mitsuru’s interactions with Junpei. I know he has a girlfriend, he says so in the game, but I see nothing of her so I’d be lying if I didn’t say I somewhat ship the two after her nervousness inviting him to have tea with her and his desperation to protect her when he found out how hard she was trying to get along with him.

Junpei: Junpei has one thing that Ryuji and Yosuke do not have: confidence. Though Ryuji and Yosuke both front confidence it’s often incredibly easy to see the weak points in their facade and to deflate them. Junpei is able to far better stand his ground even when he’s being belittled. He is definitely more reckless than the two as a result, confidence is a double-edged sword, but he’s learned better than them the lesson of feeling good about himself. I do love how Ren can consistently support his ‘Greatest Detective Ever’ declaration and basically took every chance to do so. He luckily seems to lack any of the perversion tendencies, although as I’ve said in PQ2 the same is true of basically everyone, although I do sorta wish we got a bit more on his girlfriend if she’s so important to him. I get because she won’t appear and you won’t see her the game doesn’t want to waste time on a character we learn nothing about, but at certain points it felt off that Junpei doesn’t comment on her at all. 

Interesting:

These are characters I found interesting, easily as interesting as the ones above, but for personal reasons just don’t like quite as much.

Yukari: Oh boy, Yukari. Let’s start with my problem with her before I move on to why I find her so interesting. Put simply Yukari is mean. Whilst with both Ryuji and Yosuke I was pleased to see that despite being the ‘bro’ characters, PQ2 avoided constantly haranguing on them. Not so for Yukari and Junpei, yeesh! Junpei can barely open his mouth without Yukari insulting him, sometimes really rather severely. My problem is that she often insults Junpei just cause he’s too boisterous, or  confident. It just gets...well it gets like Ryuji in the vanilla game or Royal, it feels mean-spirited, particularly since Junpei never reacts by laughing or quipping back, but always by just deflating and sorta whimpering. I didn’t like it. With that said Yukari is still a very interesting character too me because she has an incredibly well-defined character. She is intelligent, emotionally so, perceptive to other’s feelings and has a very sharp wit and tongue, both to put down others and help them. Her interactions with the P3 Female Protagonist are interesting and she is often very insightful actually. I will also confess, to a slight extent, the sheer extent of her nastiness towards Junpei did make me, somewhat, feel as if the two must at least be close, they rarely ever say anything without the other chiming in, so I can see a bit of myself shipping it...but as a terrible mistake the two swear to never tell anyone else and eventually realize is just overall unhealthy for them. 

Ken: Ken plays a pretty well-worn archetype and he plays it fine: the earnest young boy with an edge, wise-beyond-his-years in some senses, but wet-behind-the-ears in others, with a strong hero complex tainted by a bit of an extreme edge. Ken is interesting but less fun to me just because he is somewhat predictable in the role he fulfills, which just isn’t my personal preference. I think he has amazing chemistry, and potential, with Akechi and Futaba and wish he got to interact more with both. His interactions with Ryuji, Ann and Morganna in their Special Ticket together is also absolutely great and again I wish him and Ryuji had more consistent interaction over the course of the game. But a lot of Ken’s interactions come down to Koromaru, which is fine, just not exactly thrilling. I do think Ken is adorable though, he’s very well-meaning and clearly very hard-working, and I’m a bit surprised that some more of the compassionate PTs, such as Ann, don’t actually regularly comment on or find him endearing. 

Aigis: So I feel like Aigis can come across to players of PQ2 as uncomplicated but that’s only at a surface glance. The thing with Aigis is that she clearly HAS already overcome her primary character conflict, her feelings about being an artificial construct and the meaning of her existence. Throughout the third dungeon she expounds heavily on the conclusions she’s already come too. For many a character completing their character arc becomes boring, but not for me. I found Aigis fascinating and LOVED a robot who, rather than repeating the old and tired song-and-dance of ‘do I feel? do I will?’ already has her answers and also avoids the cliche of ‘robots have no emotions’ by, in her own way, being very emotional. 

Fuuka: I enjoyed Fuuka quite a bit, and find her character a nice counterpart to Rise’s and Futaba’s. Although on the surface she seems to be the ‘shy, shrinking violet’ style of character this isn’t really true. She’s soft-spoken, by comparison to most, yes, but she’s not really shy. What she is, is the more calm and analytical of the three Navigators, less prone to exuberant emotional outbursts, but at the same time clearly more innately compassionate than the other two who are more prone to teasing or mocking. I felt her established interest in technology and mechanisms wasn’t integrated as fully as it could have been, alas perhaps because Futaba seemed to occupy more of that role, but did find that, if you look closely, Fuuka actually does offer some of the best advice to Hikari, and is consistently, along with Ryuji and Futaba, Hikari’s most verbal and ardent supporter and defender.

Uninteresting:

First, note, this does not mean I dislike the characters, I like them all, but these are characters who, in PQ2, I found the least interesting.

Akihiko: I feel so bad for him. So PQ2 really does avoid, for the most part, reducing it’s characters just to gags but Akihiko, man, they really do that with him. He basically only ever says one of two things: (1) I want to fight X (2) Protein-joke. It gets...old. I feel sorry for him because I feel he has potential there but the game seems determined to never explore it. He does have a VERY fun interaction with Chie and Makoto, all three I enjoyed and I can easily see Akihiko as Chie’s mentor and teacher, the two blend together well and have fun chemistry. His interactions with Makoto are also nice since it reveals his deepest character, as he is the one who tells Makoto to acknowledge herself more and sometimes realize that there is more to existence than regimented preparation. I enjoyed his chaotic energy, despite seeming a bit like a leader and an authority figure he’s actually very chaotic and impulsive, living in a more ‘go as the current takes you’ way which makes him adaptable and reactive. Now if only they’d used that for more than protein-related jokes. 

Shinjiro: Poor Shinjiro feels to me like he fell into the trap Kanji avoided. His main problem is just he spends so much time brooding and making tiny statements that we don’t get a feel for him. His other problem is that his most consistent dialogue partner is Akihiko and every single one of their conversations, almost, breaks down into: Akihiko says something about protein or fighting, Shinjiro calls him dumb, repeat. Shinjiro clearly has wisdom and common sense, but he seems to restrain himself from actually imparting it compared to the likes of Makoto, Haru, Ryuji, Naoto or Akechi. The result is he makes less of an impact because he’s the character of the main cast who most visibly feels like he’s withholding himself from the group. He’s like Akechi but more so. Akechi also, in the game, can come across as if he’s minimizing his interactions, but he doesn’t do it quite as much as Shinjiro. 

[funkymbtifiction]

[answered asks for the week]

INSIDE:

Hy! Can you pls give more examples how the types looks like as a child?

Is this related to a loop or inferior function?

When Enneagram 1 goes to 4, would that look like sensitivity to criticism, moodiness, brooding?

Could you compare enfp 4w3 and 4w5 ( both) so/sp?

i’m 90% sure that i’m an ISTJ, but sometimes i don’t feel that way.

Recently you said it might be difficult to determine enneagram type before mid thirties.

I haven’t been able to find any information on 1w2 ENFJ.

when we are teenagers we are developing our least favourite function right?

Hi. I was hoping you can help me. I figured out a pattern of mine that I would imagine is probably either a loop or my inferior function, because it is me when I am at my lowest point and am most unlike myself. I know what makes me fall into this pattern, now that I am older. However, whenever I fall into this pattern I have a hard time pinpointing what functions might be responsible for it. 

I am usually an optimistic person. I am usually upbeat and can always turn a negative situation into a positive one by finding something positive about that particular situation, or something upcoming that I am really excited about. When someone is sad about a situation, I can explain why it’s not so bad and then get them to think optimistically. It is what makes me charming, bubbly and an overall good presence. It is rare when I fall into a slump, but when I do this optimism disappears completely. I get extremely negative minded. Like this morning, one of my closest friends told me “Why are you being so pessimistic?” And I know why. It is always the same story…

I really like having a simple lifestyle. By that, I do not mean I do not care about good food, company, and good stimuli to keep me excited. I am all about aesthetics. But what I mean is I rather make a modest living than work long hours, wasting life. I like to work minimal hours so I can enjoy this short life we have been given. I don’t like to take life seriously. I like to just live in the moment, day by day, and absorb the present. Every hour at its rawest form. But when my boss gives me ridiculous hours or I feel this time is taken away from me by obligations like even funerals or upcoming prayer events, I begin to flip out. It’s rare because I purposely chose a job that prioritizes hours for friends, family, and fun instead of work. But obligations happen and when they happen I can’t enjoy the moment anymore. I keep thinking of that obligation and how

But when I see these dates where I won’t have time for any of that sporadically appear in my calendar… every task becomes so tedious. I feel like every chore inside my house or outside of my house is ridiculous, including something so simple like vacuuming and I cannot live in the present like I want to. I keep living in that moment where I have to do this chore. I have to do this obligations. And then I get lost and everyone around me senses something different. They get pissed at me because I’m so damn negative.

I feel like if I can understand the functions responsible maybe I can direct myself to changing this pattern. Again. It’s so rare but when it happens, it’s really bad.

The bolded is high Se. You’re an SFP. Given your obvious Enneagram 7 core type (the need to be free of obligation and able to do whatever you want / live in the moment and be spontaneous – feeling trapped when too much closes in on you) I’m guessing you’re an ESFP, and these “I feel trapped and no longer able to enjoy the moment” days are Ni-gripping (unable to think in the present, just ahead to things you are not looking forward to).

You can counter this by one of two ways, or both:

1) Doing something at the end of the day that brings you back into Se. Something aesthetic that returns you to THE PRESENT. It might be Yoga. It might be a back rub. It might be laying in the tub for two hours and reading a book by candlelight. Something sensory. Something NOW.

2) Have something to look forward to on the other side of your obligations, so you are not thinking about the days you have to do things, but that fun thing you get to do on the weekend. It may be something you planned, or the decision to live in the moment on that day and be impulsive all day long. But 7′s need fun things to look forward to, when they have a lot of “commitment”-related things sucking up their energy. So, look ahead in a positive way and not just a negative one. :)

When enneagram one goes to four would that look like sensitivity to criticism, moodiness, brooding? I know a few people like that who are normally pretty immune to taking things to personally but at times can seem quite sensitive. They also have the best sense of humor and are playful at their best. Thanks

Yes.

The important thing to remember with disintegration is that the person has all the negative attributes of the number they are moving into, but none of the positive ones. So a 1 moving to 4 is melodramatic, woe is me, nobody understands me, nobody appreciates me, I’m all alone and unloved, nobody loves me, fuss, fuss, fuss… with none of 4′s authenticity, seek for deep internal meaning, or ability to understand and process intense emotions on a deep level.

Moving into integration would also mean taking on the positive attributes of 7 without the negative ones – so the 1 would become more happy, playful, and optimistic, seeing the best in people instead of what needs fixed.

Could you compare enfp 4w3 and 4w5 ( both) so/sp?

Ignore your MBTI type and just focus on what 3 and 5 bring to the 4, and how that would change it.

3 is extroverted, wants to win, has confidence in their look, is centered around success.

5 is introverted, fearful of getting things wrong by acting too prematurely, protects self by falling into knowledge, tends to fantasize.

4w3 therefore is more outgoing, flamboyant, bigger with their feelings, more dramatic, and yet cares more how people see them because of the 3. They often are fashionable and image-conscious – because the “is this authentic to me” 4 is being pulled at by the “but do I make an amazing impression” 3 wing.

4w5 is more introverted and more inclined to intellectualize their feelings, more secretive about everything (because 5 is a little fearful of how you may use things against it if you know too much), doesn’t care nearly as much how other people respond to them in terms of their overall presentation.

Since 3 is optimistic and ‘can’ do, it makes for a lighter, more colorful 4 – optimistic about the future and able to carve a niche out or trend-set. 5 brings a level of internal focus to a 4 and often becomes ‘dramatic’ or ‘withdrawn’ – there’s more of an emphasis on morbidity whenever a 5 is involved.

hi! i was wondering if you could help me with my type. i’m 90% sure that i’m an ISTJ, but sometimes i don’t feel that way. i feel that ISTJs are often depicted as cold or unfeeling, but i am definitely a kind person - generally to everyone, and especially to those i love. i can get into a “Te mode” but it isn’t constant. but i’m definitely not Fe, and i make decisions based on logic. and of course mbti can’t show my entire personality, so could enneagram could provide clarification? thanks!

My father once told me that you can’t take everything at face value, you have to look at where someone is coming from. So, if there are somewhat cold and inaccurate depictions of ISTJs in fiction, what does that tell you about the writer? They are not an ISTJ. Most likely they are an IXFP or a high Fe user, who does not understand how TeFi works, so they wind up with a stereotype of what their own low Te would be like higher in the stack (inaccurate, because healthy high Te is instinctively professional and knows how to work with people) or they think about people they have clashed with and use them for inspiration.

That aside, most ISTJs are not cold or unfeeling. They care very deeply – they just do not waltz around with their feelings on full display and feel no need to draw excessive attention to them. They show their love through Te ways – often doing kind things for others rather than gushing. Any type can be kind and I know a fair few thinkers in general who are kind, gentle, and accommodating. But their brains still process information through their specific cognitive stack, making them thinkers.

It is possible that you have a compliant Enneagram tritype, yes. A 9 or a 2 or a 6 or all three would make you a much softer and warmer ISTJ than an ISTJ with a “cold” Enneagram tritype.

Recently you said it might be difficult to determine enneagram type before mid thirties. I am curious how long we take to develop a type of that’s how it works. I could see a type 9 develop when their efforts to deal with issues are blown off. Over time they may avoid conflict? Is that possible?

It’s not that as a child, you lack an Enneagram type, but that at 35 you have enough life experience to look back on your accumulated mistakes and see what it is that you are truly afraid of or running away from. Your defense mechanisms. The younger a person is, the more arrogant they tend to be. It’s life that kicks you between the teeth and teaches you things. Like, no matter how good you are, there’s always someone better than you. Or that you can’t keep running away from your problems and expect things not to catch up to you. Or that sooner or later, you have to leave your comfort zone and get a job. Or that “perfection” does not exist. By 35, hopefully you will have gained some perspective and enough humility not to sugarcoat your flaws. That’s Richard Rohr’s reasoning – take it or leave it, it’s up to you.

There’s theories about how you develop your core type based on your parents and how you felt and what you dealt with as a child. I’m not sure whether to believe that as true or not – often, for example, the 6 profiles talk about the child growing up in an unsafe environment and an unstable home. I had a safe home, never experienced anything traumatic, and excellent parents who never fought. I never felt threatened. I just inexplicably developed 6 traits. But I could also flip it around and say that I was so dependent on my loving and generous parents that the outside world became an intimidating, dangerous place.

They say that 9′s develop in a volatile environment where they have to ignore an abusive parent in order to cope – but out of all the 9′s I know (and I know at least 5 in real life), that’s true for only one of them. One 9 I know developed in a house without much strife at all. She just decided to be in her own little world.

I suspect like all things, it’s a combination of preferred tendencies and possibly the environment. Like a little 9 child being happy and sweet and wanting to see everything with a rosy glow and then when faced with the harsh realities of life in the real world – choosing to stick with that happy, sweet place, because it’s much nicer than the cold truth. Or the little 1 child feeling better when her room is organized, like that’s something she can control in her world. Or the 2 being instinctively helpful and generous. Etc.

In short, I don’t think anybody knows where or why these things develop. There’s no actual proof Enneagram exists. It’s just a theory that we treat as the truth, because human beings want to know why people are not all the same, so they look for patterns and explanations… and this seems as valid as any other. ;)

I haven’t been able to find any information on 1w2 ENFJ. Would you be willing to explain how they might differ from the bubbly ENFJ stereotype we often hear about? Thanks!!

It’s the ESFJs (and the ESFJs mistyped as ENFPs ;) that bring a bubbliness to Fe-doms – Ni being a very straightforward, “colder” function (paired with Se) does not lend itself to Ne-ish enthusiasm. It’s more serious and driven (Obama, Neil deGrasse Tyson, etc).

That being said, an ENFJ 1w2 would develop narrow, specific idealistic beliefs about how to improve the world and set about determined to make those visions a reality. They would not shy away from conflict but be assertive in expressing their views (because the world and others need to behave themselves). Anytime you get a high Fe paired with a 1 fix, there’s often a focus on needing the outer world to get in line and agree with the FJ’s moral principles. The 2 wing lends a forgiving air and the desire to serve others, which does soften the 1 somewhat but makes them shy less away from stating their views (Fe-dom + 1) than a 1w9.

Depending on the health level and maturity of the ENFJ involved, this corrective mentality would be warm and approachable but also sure of what it wants and constantly pushing self and others toward a higher ideal (healthy) or judgmental, a perfectionist, rigid, and have completely unrealistic expectations for self and others (Ni + 1) (unhealthy).

Ok, so I have two questions but first I would like to say that I love this page and I'm really glad I found it anyways, 1) when we are teenagers we are developing our least favourite function right? So, when you type characters in movies that are teens do you use that information? And 2) (has nothing to do with the first question) I discovered my functions and that I'm in an Se-Fe loop (or Fe-Se) but I can't figure if I'm ENFJ or ESTP, do you have any tips on finding my aux? Or at least my type

Typically as a teenager you’re starting to grow into your second function, the third usually kicks in around 20 but doesn’t fully develop until later in life; your inferior function (your least favorite) takes decades to come into balance with your dominant.

I treat teens like any other character – I type them based on their motives, behavior, and blind spots. I also type kids the same way, even though technically they’re too young to type. But a good writer can be consistent enough in their writing to show a child as a complete character, complete with blind spots. (Mike in Stranger Things being a FeNi, for example, out of touch with inferior Ti.)

Which one of your functions is weaker? Which one are you using in a slapdash manner? Which one do you make the most mistakes with? Fe-doms are highly in tune with other people and their feelings at all times; they feel what others feel, they want to control the emotional environment (as judging types), and they prioritize and comprehend people’s feelings in a way no tert-Fe can even begin to emulate. Tert-Fe feels guilt sometimes for causing strife but is largely out of touch with people and their feelings, and their own feelings – which they tend to analyze rather than understand. Se-dom is much more competent in knowing the right opportunities to leap onto to make things happen or shift them in a direction that solves the immediate problem than low Se, which miscalculates, over-estimates its ability (and proves itself wrong), and makes foolish knee-jerk decisions.

A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself: when I use this function, does it make the situation BETTER / resolve the problem or cause more problems (because I handle it clumsily)?

So, lower Se = leaps into action desperate to make something happen, makes the wrong choice, causes more problems.

Lower Fe = tries to handle the emotional atmosphere, only causes greater pain / misunderstandings / founders around trying to find solid footing, leads to more hurt feelings and miscommunications.

Hy! Can you pls give more examples how the types looks like as a child? (I mean, you said they using just 1-2 function, how does this  manifest in real life?)

Already did that here. And here.

How much do you type yourself based on childhood you? How can you tell enneagram types of a child?

Overall? 10 percent. Examine it to see what still lingers in your personality and if it matches, you have a consistent pattern. But type yourself as an adult, over 18.

I recommend not Enneagram typing until you’re over 20 years old (ideally, 35). Childhood incidents may provide a basis of BEHAVIOR, but until you are old enough to consciously evaluate your motives / fears, you won’t know why you acted that way. Enneagram is all about how you react to situations (by protecting your image – heart type; by withdrawing in fear – head type; or by instant gut reactions and anger – gut type). The older you are, the more evidence you have of how you have “made mistakes” – which leads you to your E type / variants.

- ENFP Mod

[typingcharactersbymoonlight]

Elliot Nightray

ESTJ, LSE/ESTj, 8w9 sp/so 836 tritype

MBTI: ESTJ

Elliot is rather prone to ordering others around if he thinks they are not doing things The Right Way/most efficient way(Te). He also cares quite a bit about things being orderly which is a reason he tends to clash with Leo as he is not as concerned with such things as a introverted perceiver dominant himself. Elliot’s Extroverted Judging dominancy is easy to see with how his main mode of operation is making judgement calls on things- based on their suitability and efficiency in the situation. As bossy as he can come off and tends to be, and emotional explosion prone he can be, he still tries to make a fair judgement call on people in the end, even if it sometimes takes time for him to admit that he made a mistake and take a step back. He feels most comfortable in leading position- knowing where he stands and what are his duties as well as what are other’s duties and correct procedures to get something done. He has daily routine he tends to stick with (Si) but in his personal life, he prefers to try taking on more creative activities such as composing songs with personal meanings to him and gets fairly emotionally attached to fictional characters in book series if they align with his ideals/morality (Ne+Fi).

He is not completely closed off to new viewpoints or experiences, but it takes a certain level of willpower to get through his Te+Si combo which tends to be rather certain of how they did things until now as well as what was taught in their families being right and as the correct way to do things. He can view his own feelings and feelings of others, particularly more sensitive ones as weak and might end up stepping over them while trying to “fix the situation”, which is part of his Fi inferior achilles’ heel. Yet, also because of same sense of Fi morality he tends to be out of touch with having, he is often quick to jump in to protect others in a more generalized sense of it feeling like “right thing” to protect ones who can’t do so for themselves than having a constant, more personal and specific view of the current case- he is prone to seeing situations black and white than shades of gray, which it often is when people are involved in a situation. (Inferior Fi)

Socionics: ESTj/LSE

His Te base and Je temperament is rather obvious throughout the series. He is quick to order others around, yet it still comes from a Fi DS perspective. He craves closeness to others, but doesn’t quite know how to assess his level of psychological closeness to others as it is a 1D IE for him, so he takes a direct approach if he ever tries to get to know someone. His Si creative is apparent in his desire to keep his surroundings in order and clean, as well as despite being mainly on the go, he also knows when to just take a break and let himself have some rest- he doesn’t have troubles of Si PoLR at that. His Se Demostrative is obvious when he feels the need to act on something- he is quick to take action and do what he deems necessary by his Te, he doesn’t have problems with staring down someone who tries to intimidate him nor fighting them, but he also despises gaining power in such a crude manner as it clashes with Delta quadra values of valuing Si/Ne over Se/Ni. His Ni PoLR is most obvious when he doesn’t quite catch what is going on behind the scenes- best example to that is Blue Rose side story where he took everything in face value until Leo (a Ni base) guided him through it to understand it. He states during Retrace 50 that he despises people who are two-faced, preferring a direct personal confrontation than any “power games”, which fits with his 1D Ni as well as his gut reactions to Vincent and Leo at times being annoyed by them despite them just being themselves.

Enneagram: 8w9 sp/so 836 tritype

His reactions to things is often anger and gut based: if he feels something is wrong or there is any power inequality or any threat, then he flares up to intimidate the threat back into submission. However, unlike 8w7 Alice, he isn’t as consistently on intimidation mode, preferring to keep to himself unless rules he put as the one in charge of the situation/peace he keeps is threatened- then he has no problem with putting down whoever caused the problem and maintaining the peace he wants to be kept. Given all the deaths he was surrounded with growing up, as well as last thing he recalled of his elder brothers was them saying it was now his responsibility as the male figure to protect their sister and mother, he took on the responsibility of being the one to protect them and others- He can’t tolerate any injustice and rams his way through whoever causes such things while also being not quite gentle with the weak one that was hurt, saying them to toughen up to not being brought down like this again. Despite his more fiery outbursts and having zero problems with throwing punches if he needs to, he flat out refused fighting Marcel in Blue Rose story, saying that he was not worthy enough to even punch. Yet, there is still 8-->2 integration as in the series, we mainly see him around average to healthy levels; he is quite protective of others and uses his powers and authority to not abuse others below him but to call out injustices he sees and putting a stop to them.

Instinctual stacking wise, he is a self-preservation dominant: He despises the idea of self sacrifice and his entire mentality is rather built on mortality and to avoid death of both himself and his loved ones- survival of himself and his loved ones through his own actions and work. He also isn’t blind to his place in social hierarchy and sees a point in its existence- That it is necessary for human beings to survive and thrive so while he isn’t constantly plagued by worries on his place in society all the time, he recognizes it and does what he has to do due to his role in society, he is synflow than contraflow. His sx blind spot makes him both repulsed by “improper” actions others might take, while at the same time, intrigues him as much as he tries to deny it for such things aren’t socially acceptable, such as his reaction to sx-first Alice kicking and dragging Oz during the conversation he was having with Elliot at Unbirthday Drama CD; which happened just after he was describing that he would of course prefer a proper lady while after Alice left with Oz, dragging him to do what she wanted, he was amazed by it, saying it was “so cool”.

His tritype, 836, is one of the most confrontational yet also one of the most justice focused tritypes. His core 8 drives him to do act on any injustice to protect himself and his loved ones and the underdog, while he also has image consciousness of 3 when it comes to how he deals with feelings of shame, as well as he deals with fear by going against it and reacting against it as well as searching for strong alliances like a 6. Due to 3 and 6, he is not as prone to trying to break any rules that are in place, yet when one of his core 8 values are crossed, he still doesn’t step not a single inch from his spot and charges full power. 8+6 especially brings out a “jumps into protect the underdog”ness, while 3 also brings the active energy to chase after a goal, which can make him prone to forget about feelings of others and his own while jumping into things he never was asked to like a crusader who champions his brand of justice while steamrolling all others, when unhealthy. Still, when healthier, his overall enneagram type is one of protection, fairness, being in power to ensure no one is being treated bad and simply enjoying the safe and peaceful area he provides, of course given that bickerings and arguments with people he sees as his trusted equals on clashing opinions being a part of his brand of peace as to him that is only natural and healthier to get that out in more constructive and open minded way than truly pushing down someone or abusing his power/authority.

[harmonic-psyche]

The Finalysis: @askgoopi and @askthewaywardaliens

Hey, I am back with more characters for The Finalysis™! Below, I analyze the characters from @ecstaticshli​‘s EarthUnBound continuity on @askgoopi​ and CogDis sister blog on @askthewaywardaliens​. Both blogs are still continuing their stories. While technically only @askgoopi​ is set in the alternate timeline called “EarthUnBound,” I am using that title for both blogs here because of their shared author/artist and characters and because is sounds Really Friggin Cool.

I am still experimenting with the visuals for these Finalysis posts, and I wanted to try something a bit less bare than in my Finalysis post for @askgiegueandcrew​. Hopefully the image is not too crowded. Also, I swear that the “Goopi vs. J” fight in the middle of the picture was unintentional at first — but then I realized that it reflects how they would probably react upon meeting. oh geez, now i want to see them meet and see how many milliseconds it takes for them to start fighting

With that said, on to the character analyses!

Blue Starman ("Stupid," or "Blu"): Seems like an ISFJ.

This nervous-looking "[s]cared nerd Starman" is much more easily frightened than his fellow Starmen, which suggests inferior Ne — especially considering that he regrets being a coward, his "personality" is "Chicken," and he has a bad habit of second-guessing himself. Even in his military decisions, he shows caution. As a "pushover," Blu lacks the toughness of auxiliary Te, implying Fe instead. Also, seeing Giegue happy would make Blu happiest, showing Fe's desire to make others happy. While these facts suggest ISFJ, I have not seen enough of him to feel confident about my typing.

Giegue ("Goopi"): Probably ESTP, maybe ESTJ.

Canon Giegue is ISTJ, but "Goopi" here appears much more impulsive and aggressive. For example, his "bad habits" include "attacking others for seemingly no reason." While canon Giegue is not friendly, before the madness set in he tended to stay calm unless provoked or carrying out a cruel plan. In contrast, Goopi takes a sadistic pleasure in attacking others just for the sake of killing them. He once broke a promise with Static simply because he wanted to kill her after torturing her. Canon Giegue also uses a much more detached and clinical tone than Goopi, who loves using crude, petty insults so much that he literally named all of his Starmen after them. That degrading, crude humor is most common among ESTP types, and notably lacking from Giegue in canon or on @askgiegueandcrew​. In canon, Giegue only acts to follow his plan(s) or when he loses control of himself. On the other hand, Goopi often acts merely for pleasure without a plan or a reason: "I don't need much of a reason," "I did what I did because I wanted to." These show far more impulsive and hedonistic behavior, implying Se rather than Si.

At first, I was unsure if I could justifiably type Goopi differently from canon Giegue. Since they are from different universes, though, they are different characters: Goopi is "a completely different Giegue" (PMs with @ecstaticshli​ 2018-06-22).

J the Shadow: Definitely ISTJ.

Cautious, tough, and stoic to the core, J is an archetypal ISTJ. As an introvert who is still working on acting social, he prefers to avoid the spotlight. Si-dominance is evident in his (over?)protective unwavering loyalty to Vivi, since he considers himself her personal "bodyguard" (a.k.a. "guard dog" — compare the running joke about Si-dominant Pia the loyal dog). J does not hesitate to intimidate, threaten, or attack others to prove it when he thinks that they threaten Vivi. He shows no F-type squeamishness. While he "[t]ends to not be very friendly to others ... if he trusts someone he will be loyal and do his best to protect them," showing Si loyalty without Fe friendliness.

Te over Fi appears in his tough attitude, blunt tone, resent for receiving others' pity, "aggressive demeanor," and tendency to be embarrassed by emotional and cutesy situations — which, naturally, happen all the time around Vivi. When feeling insecure, he responds with aggression. As he has shown repeatedly, he hates being called adorable despite the obvious fact that he totally is adorable. In his own words, "It ain’t exactly easy for me to, uh, open up to others." Auxiliary Te's coldness and inferior Ne's paranoia make him distrust others by default ("We don’t know these people! I can’t trust them!"). While this can cause tension when he first meets other characters, it does help him protect those he cares about, especially Vivi. He also shows inferior Ne when he is totally thrown off by strange new perspectives, like whether he qualifies as an "insectoid."

Note also that, since "J is based on a later version of Giegue from EarthUnbound," it makes sense that J and Giegue would have identical personality types. Again, typing by analogy is unreliable, but in this case it sits on a huge pile of more-than-sufficient other evidence.

Nebula: Seems like an ISFJ.

This "[c]autious noodle" is "[c]alm, for the most part," but "[t]ends to panic when things go horribly wrong," making "other people assume ... [that s]he's a worrywart." Those show inferior Ne, and a lack of Te's decisiveness. Even though Nebula made Static act serious (a minor miracle) when Goopi attacked, came up with a plan, and pointed out that other mooks needed help escaping, she froze up and did not volunteer to help them when Static asked. These show her calm, serious planning skills (Si) and desire to help others (Fe) without any impulsivity (Ne). Nebula corrects others about scientific details even in crisis situations, showing that she is a stickler for detail (Si). Also, she probably would not dare kill anyone, showing what I call "F-type squeamishness." I do not have all that much confidence in typing Nebula, though. I have only seen her in a crisis situation, in which characters often act unusually compared to their normal personality. 

Rac: Seems like an IN__.

Nebula's boyfriend is a "really smart," "nerdy noodle" who "[t]ends to be skittish and awkward at times." Being skittish and awkward suggests introversion. While there is only a weak correlation between intelligence and MBTI (specifically, iNtuition), there is a strong correlation between nerdiness and being an IN__ type.[citation not needed] Rac’s "fears" include "[s]paghettification" and "black holes in general," which are an unusually abstract subject to fear, suggesting N. His "bad habits" include "[s]econd guessing himself," showing a lack of confidence. As a research supervisor, though, he possesses a strong scientific curiosity and enough leadership skills to run his lab. Having never seen Rac's behavior, I cannot type him precisely. Any of the IN__ types could fit this description.

Starman Jr. ("Ugly," or "Ly"): Definitely ESFP.

Ly's "[s]assy and snarky" attitude, chill demeanor, and casual slang-based speaking style point to Se-dominance . So too does her low patience and risk-taking behavior, like when she threw a secret party which accidentally got Static captured. Still, she had good intentions: "I just wanted to do something nice for my friend." Still, Ly's impulsivity and good intentions do not always end poorly. In fact, they may be the only reason that Vivi is still alive.

When Ly found Vivi on a deserted planet, Ly insisted on taking Vivi aboard to heal her. Another Starman asked how they would handle Giegue's reaction, and Ly replied that "I'll figure that out when we get to that point." In other words, she had no plan (low Ni and Te), acting only on impulse (high Se and Fi). When Javik Goopi tried to throw Vivi out the airlock, Ly saved her life by standing up to Goopi, literally annoying him into stopping. It takes nearly-reckless courage to stand up to someone so powerful and unstable. Beyond that, the intentional use of annoyance for persuasion shows Fi's determination and willingness to embarrass everyone involved (compare Vivek the ENFP), whereas Fe-users would likely melt from the secondhand cringe.

Like Static's, Ly's individualist passion (auxiliary Fi) is accomplished through a facade of toughness (tertiary Te). After all, she is "practically the only one who can pretty much talk trash to Goopi’s face and not be killed for it." Her high Fi often causes righteous indignation. Combined with her tough demeanor, this makes her take no BS from anons ("Screw you! Nobody asked for your two cents, bub") who try to help Goopi or from inexplicably hostile mooks. Those show no Fe politeness, even though Fi makes Ly "willing to sacrifice [her] safety" for her friends' at the drop of a hat because of how much she cares about them.

Unlike Static, Ly lacks the eccentric cleverness of Ne — but she makes up for it with Se's down-to-earth decisiveness. Also, contrast their speaking styles: Ly's tends to have more "shortcuts," like dropping letters from the front ("worried 'bout," "lost track of 'em,") or end of words ("somethin' to," "damper on everythin'," "comin' up"). Dropping the -g from the end of words shows informality. Also, a lot of Ly's slang comes from slurred speech ("wanna," "gotta," "gonna," "outta") — and "ain't." Those all shorten words to make them more convenient, but also sound "unrefined," for lack of a better less pretentious word. At least among CogDis OCs, that style is a dead giveaway for Se-dominance (compare Boson, Juice, Rigby, and Szortski). Sensors are more likely to view language only as a tool, making them more straightforward. In contrast, iNtuitors also like to play with it, which is why — unlike Ly — Static really, really loves puns. 

Static: Definitely ENFP.

See full analysis for details. also i totally would've called that this "noodle" is a hugger. wait now i want to hug her :S

Vivineeh ("Vivi"): Probably ISFJ, maybe INFP.

I have tried to figure out which of those two types this "adorable" and "precious" (seriously, she is absurdly cute) noodle is for sooo long! Either typing could explain that she is "timid," "[w]ill cry at just about anything," and "super sensitive," since those come generally from I_F_. Likewise, either typing could explain that she "likes [b]eing kind, ... being around children, ... hugs, soft and/or fluffy things, [and] anything she finds cute." Sentimentality, enjoyment of receiving affection, and compassion can suggest high Fi or high Fe.

The evidence that I have seen barely tips the scales towards ISFJ. Vivi "always tries to be super nice and polite," because "she dislikes making others feel bad," and she loves making friends. Wanting everyone to be happy is generally a trait of high Fe-users, as is indiscriminate positivity — especially politeness, which shows an intuitive submission to social norms. Fi is typically less prone to share its feelings, more selective about them, and defiant of social norms like politeness. Finally, the "fearful" Vivi frequently worries and is easily scared/offended by dark humor, suggesting low Ne. I have already mentioned why inferior Ne causes worrying, and dark humor is appreciated by high Ne-users (compare Ano and Static) but offends Si's often-purist sensibilities. Finally, unlike other CogDis-related IN_Ps, Vivi does not show absentminded or eccentric behavior (contrast Keter, Loris, Niiue, and Origen).

Now consider the evidence for INFP. One might think that Vivi's social awkwardness suggests dominant Fi, because Fe is more socially adept. Yet ISFJs can often be socially awkward too, especially when caused by inferior Ne caution (compare Yi the ISFJ "just being awkward"). The contrast between Vivi's personality and J's also makes her seem like an INFP, because it seems unlikely that they share the same dominant function. Typing by analogy is weak evidence, though, and different extraverted-judging functions (Te vs. Fe) can cause a huge difference in demeanor. At first I though Vivi did not show Si-dominance because I had not seen her show its common (and admittedly stereotypical) traits like obedience to authority or effective detailed memory, but she shows both (PMs with @ecstaticshli​ 2018-06-22). While many parts of her culture "sicken and unnerve" her, as one would expect more from a Fi- or Ni-dominant repulsed at their society, she inherited most of her beliefs from her caretaker Marair. Like most ISFJs, most of her values are inherited from her family.

I am not entirely confident in an ISFJ typing, though. Vivi "likes ... trying new things, learning, [and] visiting new planets," which suggests high Ne. While Si-dominants can love learning, especially if it involves fact-collecting (compare Ore), they generally do not like trying new things. I cannot explain why Vivi likes trying new things, such as visiting new planets, using an ISFJ typing. In fact, she can be downright "adventurous" if she does not feel threatened (PMs 06-22). Similarly, Vivi's "hopeless romantic" idealism is more common among daydreaming INFPs than concrete ISFJs. As a Geik, Vivi seems more like an ISFJ, but as a Gieeg, she seems more like an INFP — but since they are the same character (PMs 06-22), I cannot type them differently.

Alright, that concludes my analysis of @askgoopi​ and @askthewaywardaliens​! Unless I forgot any characters. I considered including some of the other Starmen who serve under Goopi, and probably ought to add the Last Starman featured in recent posts —  especially since he may have a type very rare to CogDis (canon and fan-) characters. But since most of them appear almost exclusively in the background, have minimal dialogue, and lack Charahub entries, I realized that I would not have enough material to make a guess at their personality types.

I am unsure whose characters I will analyze next. Hopefully it will take less time to post the next part of Finalysis. Until then, goodnight!

[aegor-bamfsteel]

How do you think Rohanne’s perception of slavery changed from her time in Westeros? And how would the westerosi handle slavery during their exile?

Xen, could you go back to asking me which of the Great Bastards is ticklish? Because this is a hard one. It involves knowing about both Rohanne’s personality and background, of which we have no information. It also has me make assumptions about the history of Golden Company based on very scant information from A Dance with Dragons. For the first question, I will try to suggest some factors that may have contributed to Rohanne’s views of slavery, and how they may have changed in Westeros. For the second, I’m going to take what I assume about the character of the first generation of Westerosi exiles and compare it to information about the asoiaf-era Golden Company.

Question 1: How do you think Rohanne’s perception of slavery changed from her time in Westeros?

I think that Rohanne’s views on slavery before she got to Westeros were influenced by her:

Social status: We know very little about Rohanne’s background other than that the Archon was responsible for arranging her marriage, suggesting  that he was something like her paterfamilias or male head of house. As a high status woman in a city that lives off of the slave trade (so says Xaro Xhoan Daxos. I’m rolling my eyes at how unhistorical that a tiny island with no arable farmland has a population of 3 slaves for every 1 free person, but that’s the world building GRRM has created), she almost certainly came from a family who owned slaves. GRRM seems to base his slavery off of the ancient Roman model (it isn’t ethnically based, there doesn’t seem to be a ban on slaves reading/holding specific occupations, there is a reasonable chance of gaining one’s freedom), so if she were the lady of her household, she would have been responsible for tending to the basic needs of all of the slaves of her house—their food, clothing, physical health, and lodgings; even if she weren’t, her older female relatives would have taught her. Rohanne must have lived in a house mostly managed by slaves, and interacted with them on a personal level in her day-to-day life; would have been tutored by a slave in mathematics/science, her family accounts were seen to by a slave, her family’s agents were likely mostly slaves, and all the domestic chores were done by slaves. Perhaps she even had a personal maidservant from girlhood who slept beside her bed on a mat, as upper-class Roman women did. Due to her education, she may have developed a maternalistic attitude toward slaves, in which she considered it her moral duty to tend to her family’s dependents. However, she may not have necessarily considered them inherently inferior because…

Family background: Rohanne does not have any surname, let alone one with the Tyroshi-Valyrian “-is” suffix (Quaynis, Uhuris, Tumitis, Naharis), which might mean any number of things: that she was not of immediate Valyrian descent (likely, as the name “Rohanne" does not look or sound like any Valyrian names that we know, whereas the name “Kiera” is similar to the Lysene/Targaryen-Valyrian names Shiera and Shaera) or that her family was originally of a lower class that only recently reached the upper echelons of power (in Westeros if not in Tyrosh, a lack of a surname indicates smallfolk status; since Tyroshi culture is based on wealth rather than birth, those families which do have surnames could be Valyrian “old money,” although much reduced in circumstances). I don’t know if her lack of a surname definitely means that Rohanne’s family were originally slaves themselves; in Planetos, many ex-slaves don’t have surnames (though some like Rylona Rhee, Marq Mandrake, and Tumco Lho do have last names that belong to their own Ghiscari or Westerosi or Naathi culture, although these people were born free. If Rohanne’s ancestors were born slaves, they may not have surnames), but neither do most of the Myrish (close to Tyrosh, also many not of Valyrian descent). What it does mean is that she likely came from a “new money” family, and that doubtless had an effect on how she saw slaves. To clarify, the Valyrians believed themselves superior to all other peoples on the basis of blood, and many of their descendants (the Volantenes, the Lyseni, and the Targaryens) adopted the same attitude; Rohanne did not belong to this “in-group” and may have even faced passive-aggressive snubbing because of it, so she could have had a very different point of view on slavery than the “old money” families. Like many slaveowners who came from poor or even ex-slave backgrounds, she might have had the understanding that slaves were not enslaved because they were naturally morally/intellectually inferior, but were subjected to slavery through kidnapping or being born to a slave mother. The idea that slavery was a moral rather than an economic institution might have already seemed strange to her before her arrival in Westeros. 

After her arrival in Westeros and marriage to a Crownlands knight, Rohanne’s position on slavery may have further changed due to…

The Faith of the Seven: Daemon followed the Faith of the Seven, and while he did not spend a great deal of his time with septons, he was considered such an exceptional knight (who was required to take oaths based on each of the Seven) that his prowess was tied to the religious figure of the Warrior; whatever Yandel might say about his apathy to religion, he seems to have been bound up in Faith principles to a considerable degree. We don’t know whether or not Rohanne converted to the Seven before or during her marriage, as other interfaith marriages did not require the bride to convert (Catelyn Tully didn’t convert to worship of the Old Gods when she married Eddard Stark. In fact, he built her a sept for her worship, hired Septon Chayle as a librarian, and had Septa Mordane educate his daughters), although she may have done so to better integrate with the King’s Landing elite, especially due to the influx of septons in Daeron II’s court. If she did convert, she may have been taught that slavery was wrong on a moral basis, as all men belong to the Seven and owning them was to equate oneself to the divine (that was the argument of the 4th-century CE Christian bishop Gregory of Nysa, the only known abolitionist in antiquity). Even if she did not convert, the Faith was still present in her daily life because it was the religion of her husband, children (her daughters would have been educated by a Septa), smallfolk, and was centered in the nearby capital, so she would have been familiar with its teachings. Yet at the same time, her views on slavery might also have been influenced by…

The smallfolk: Tyrion Lannister observed that the smallfolk were similar to slaves because of the cruel treatment they suffered at the hands of their masters/lords with no hope for justice, but I believe the smallfolk have more rights than slaves. It seems that they were treated even better than serfs in at least one aspect; Brynden Rivers ordered them back to their lands following the Great Spring Sickness, indicating they had the right to move around and seek better employment as they wished. That leads into another point that gives smallfolk an advantage over being slaves: as primarily agricultural workers, smallfolk are spread out over a wider area and certainly don’t see their local lord on a day-to-day basis, whereas in tiny Tyrosh all of the slaves would have been familiar to their masters because everyone lives so close together. Rohanne may have even thought that the relationship between lord and smallfolk was rather distant for this reason, or she wondered why Daemon was not keeping his smallfolk close by in order to avoid potential rebellions. As she spent more time in Westeros, it may have occurred to her that the reason they didn’t rebel (and in fact raked their lives to pay tribute to him after his death) was because he was an honest man who made a fair liege; they had the freedom to follow him out of love, and were all the more loyal for it.  People are willing to fight for the preservation of that freedom. She could observe that the economic arguments for slavery she’d learned—that it was an integral part of the economy, that slaves would become lazy when freed, that fear of harsh punishments was needed to keep them obedient—just didn’t apply in this society. So I believe that Rohanne would have become less maternalistic toward her servants (as she now realized that they were capable of not causing trouble when independent) and may have come to see enslavement as a moral wrong due to the influence of the Seven/her family/her tenants (rather than just a “misfortune of circumstances”).

Question 2: How would the Westerosi handle slavery in their exile?

In the asoiaf era, the Golden Company disallows slaves from joining, calling themselves a “free brotherhood;” however, one of their prominent members is an ex-slave, Marq Mandrake (who has a hole in his cheek where his branding scar was), so they don’t appear to discriminate against men for having slave backgrounds. On the other hand, the Yunkish attempted to contract them by offering a “slave for every man in the company, ten for every officer, and a hundred choice maidens for the captain-commander” plus twice of what Myr would give them, so they obviously don’t have problems working for slaving cities. At the same time, it’s not made explicitly clear that the Company accepts slaves as a form of payment (Harry Strickland only pretended to think about the offer because he thought a blunt refusal would make their real plans too obvious); it would make more sense if they didn’t, since it’s said that they wear their wealth in gold and that their itinerant profession makes it hard to keep slaves. One could say that they have a sort of mercenary (heh) attitude toward slavery: they don’t mind if a slaver is willing to pay them to do a job, and they don’t care what a man’s background is as long as he is currently free, but don’t own slaves themselves for largely pragmatic reasons.

I assume that they felt differently in Aegor Rivers’ time; as many of Daemon I’s supporters were born in areas where the Faith has a greater presence (the Reach areas around Oldtown, the Riverlands close to the Crownlands where the Faith is centered, the Vale where the Andals first landed), and were loyal to the him in part because he embodied the knightly ideal of fairness and honor, they must have found the slavery reprehensible. Jon Connington’s words indicate that the grandfathers and fathers of the present members held more to Westerosi and Faith-inspired notions of chivalry and mercy than their descendants. Yet even by the asoiaf-era they still pay tribute to the legacy Aegor Rivers left behind, as breaking a contract is still seen as a stain upon the honor of the Company; it could be that the original members objected to slavery on moral grounds, but over time their prohibition became more pragmatic and a nod to tradition.

[kendrixtermina]

INTJ and ENFP frictions

INTJ and ENFP are often seen as a very easy-to-get-along or compatible combination and while they do share some functions, I do want to focus on one such combo in my family and how they can have misunderstandings and frictions. 

First t should be noted that these are two individuals who, generally speaking, have love, respect and compassion for each other but lately there’s been this situation where ENFP has had a lot on her plate & has been flakey and irritable because of it. As a NP myself I feel a sympathy there since I’m not the word’s most reliable person either but on the other hand INTJ is right in that there are important issues that aren’t getting sufficient care and attention. They’re innocent mistakes, but this doesn’t make them universally excusable and what more the impression that INTJ is getting is that this lack of action or reliability constitutes a lack of caring, which I don’t think is the case though I see where she’s coming from and that she has some very legitimate grievances. 

It doesn’t help that ENFP is a sp-blind 7 (and a 792 at that!) and is thus inclined to overlook the negative of things & biased toward seeing them as rosier than they are - she’d rather think that INTJ is just being lazy & bratty because thartt can be fixed with a minor scolding whereas having real difficulties isn’t. 

As an NT she likes to exercise her own judgement including about stuff like wether she’s too sick to go to school or not or what an acceptable state for her room is (she’s pickier than it seems) but ultimately she does actually care about her grades & gets dissatisfied when stuff doesn’t work out and ENFP’s attitude wasn’t really validating that. 

ENFP is actually very put-together for a sp-blind Si-inferior as it has been necessary to archieve the things she wants in life (also she’s middle aged by now & has experience) but sometimes it does show and she can be unreliable at times.

Adding to that is the difference in emotional expression - FPs often just kinda leak their feelings into the etherjust for feeling’s sake without this being a communication, statement or implication about anyone else (unless they deliberately say so) and J types can misread that as self-absorbed, like she’ll just be saying “Sorry for doing shit wrong I’m only human” and INTJ hears it as “Okay so I can’t talk to her because she’ll sulk, what about my feelings for a change?” 

The thing with those feelings is though that IxTJs don’t really broadcast them outward in “real time” that much. Like it’s pretty clear when she real talks with me or her other sisters because then the Fi comes on and had time to process but in in immediate conversation Te tends to be in charge and you know how NTs can be in arguments.  

That wasn’t as much of a problem with me since I’m 4-ish enough to do an emo rant in her face (though the forced positivity did lead to a bunch of arguments), but INTJ is a 5w6 and liable to show stress in 6-ish ways instead, see outward defiance or inward anxious worries. 

So there’ll be this viscious circle where INTJ acts defiant and tough ~because~ she is stressed and staying in-control is how she copes/ just happens to be her defense mechanism and ENFP then assumes that she can’t really be ~that~ stressed if she’s acting so tough, leading to more stress and more defiance etc.because ENFP is expecting her to “leak” them feels the way FPs do whereas INTJ tried to hang on to some shred of her dignity, so ENFP and underestimates how upset she truly is, the INTJ  starts feeling all butthurt and misunderstood (since she has Fi too) and just produces the classical 5 response of “well then I’ll have to avoid/ cannot really talk to that person, at least not about those things”

It’s probably also a question of being the lone judger in an all-perceiver household; For allI complain about the reverse this isn’t a bed of roses either. (we have an ISTJ but he’s an absentee workaholic parent more interested in playing the hero than understanding anyone, he likes to swoon in and “save the day” when ENFP is acting less than reasonable due to stress but overall he’s more an extra source of stress than any sort of relief), I’m afraid we have given the poor thing a crippling fear of moldy satsumas and chaos. The rest of us never really minded the lack of structure because we’re all perceivers, too, and actually like being left to our own devices. 

She likes to devise her own structure but if she has to rely on ENFP for things that puts a spanner in her works. She ever considered a boarding school so she could basically handle only her own stuff and be done with it, cue them feelers taking it personally in unjustified ways even if it was likely a inf-Se “This sucks, so lets do something different for different’s sake” impulse. ENFP has been under a lot of stress likely having to establish herself at her new job ; As a J type INTJ is also more likely to feel responsible for things in the household getting done at all, like she might feel compelled to mind the youngestwithout being asked to resulting in more stress (though she’s not wrong in saying that someone ~has~ to mind the local grade schooler)

A common Judger/Perceiver clash that I’ve also noticed in my own relationships is that jugers like to have some idea of the future or at least some regularities they can securely rely on and base plans on whilst Perceivers don’t really see a point of planning something for which most of the variables aren’t known yet.

Often it falls to the other household members to bridge the gap. The local ISFP usually makes a good translator (both say that actual change is more likely to happen if ISFP gets involved - it helps that they would all speak “Fi-ese” and that she is good at listening to people’s stories & making them feel valid)

I try to help because it’s my familiy and I know they’re all good people but my hamfisted inf-Fe and 4-ish way of relating sometimes does more harm than good though I try my best. I suppose my strenghts would lie in being the bunch’s lone Ti user (we have recently acquired an ESTP, but she’s the youngest and still a smol) and the boldness and analytical PoV that comes with that like, “... ladies, I see why you feel pissed off, but methinks you’re having a communication hangup here for this and that reason, and somebody has got to say it & deal with it eventually. Here’s some measures you could take. “

ENFP says I may be less worse at this whole “big sister” thing than I always thought and that the little buggers all love me and despite the above difficulties,she usually has good reads on such things. Since I’ve never been good at traditional big sister skills (You might easily assume that our local 9!INFP is the eldest, he was ever the reasonable, diplomatic big brother) I’ve always tried to contribute in the ways that I can. 

[thefortyeightlawsofpower-blog]

LAW # 38 : THINK AS YOU LIKE BUT BEHAVE LIKE OTHERS

JUDGEMENT

If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.

THINK WITH THE FEW AND SPEAK WITH THE MANY

It is easy to run into danger by trying to swim against the stream. Only a Socrates could attempt to do that. Disagreement is regarded as offensive because it is a condemnation of the views of others; the numbers of the disgruntled grow, on account either of some matter that has been the object of censure or of some person who has praised it: Truth is for the few, error is as usual as it is vulgar. Nor is the wise man to be recognized by what he says in the marketplace, for he speaks there not with his own voice, but with that of universal folly, however much his inmost thoughts may gainsay it: The wise man avoids being contradicted as sedulously as he avoids contradicting; the publicity of censure is withheld from that which readily provokes it. Thought is free; it cannot and should not be coerced; retire into the sanctuary of your silence and if you sometimes allow yourself to break it, do so under the aegis of a discreet few.

BALTASAR GRACIÁN, 1601-1658

TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW

Around the year 478 B.C., the city of Sparta sent an expedition to Persia led by the young Spartan nobleman Pausanias. The city-states of Greece had recently fought off a mighty invasion from Persia, and now Pausanias, along with allied ships from Athens, had orders to punish the invaders and win back the islands and coastal towns that the Persians had occupied. Both the Athenians and the Spartans had great respect for Pausanias-he had proven himself as a fearless warrior, with a flair for the dramatic.

With amazing speed, Pausanias and his troops took Cyprus, then moved on to the mainland of Asia Minor known as the Hellespont and captured Byzantium (modern-day Istanbul). Now master of part of the Persian empire, Pausanias began to show signs of behavior that went beyond his normal flamboyance. He appeared in public wearing pomades in his hair and flowing Persian robes, and accompanied by a bodyguard of Egyptians. He held lavish banquets in which he sat in the Persian manner and demanded to be entertained. He stopped seeing his old friends, entered into communication with the Persian King Xerxes, and all in all affected the style and manner of a Persian dictator.

Clearly power and success had gone to Pausanias’s head. His army-Athenians and Spartans alike-at first thought this a passing fancy: He had always been a bit exaggerated in his gestures. But when he flaunted his disdain for the Greeks’ simple way of life, and insulted the common Greek soldier, they began to feel he had gone too far. Although there was no concrete evidence for this, rumors spread that he had gone over to the other side, and that he dreamed of becoming a kind of Greek Xerxes. To quell the possibility of mutiny, the Spartans relieved Pausanias of his command and called him home.

Pausanias, however, continued to dress in the Persian style, even in Sparta. After a few months he independently hired a trireme and returned to the Hellespont, telling his compatriots he was going to continue the fight against the Persians. Actually, however, he had different plans—to make himself ruler of all Greece, with the aid of Xerxes himself. The Spartans declared him a public enemy and sent a ship to capture him. Pausanias surrendered, certain that he could clear himself of the charges of treason. It did come out during the trial that during his reign as commander he had offended his fellow Greeks time and again, erecting monuments, for instance, in his own name, rather than in those of the cities whose troops had fought alongside him, as was the custom. Yet Pausanias proved right: Despite the evidence of his numerous contacts with the enemy, the Spartans refused to imprison a man of such noble birth, and let him go.

Now thinking himself untouchable, Pausanias hired a messenger to take a letter to Xerxes, but the messenger instead took the letter to the Spartan authorities. These men wanted to find out more, so they had the messenger arrange to meet Pausanias in a temple where they could hide and listen behind a partition. What Pausanias said shocked them-they had never heard such contempt for their ways spoken so brazenly by one of their own—and they made arrangements for his immediate arrest.

On his way home from the temple, Pausanias got word of what had happened. He ran to another temple to hide, but the authorities followed him there and placed sentries all around. Pausanias refused to surrender. Unwilling to forcibly remove him from the sacred temple, the authorities kept him trapped inside, until he eventually died of starvation.

Bene vixit, qui bene latuit—“He lives well who conceals himself well. ”

OVID, c. 43 B.C.-A.D. 18

Interpretation

At first glance it might seem that Pausanias simply fell in love with another culture, a phenomenon as old as time. Never comfortable with the asceti cism of the Spartans, he found himself enthralled by the Persian love of luxury and sensual pleasure. He put on Persian robes and perfumes with a sense of deliverance from Greek discipline and simplicity.

This is how it appears when people adopt a culture in which they were not raised. Often, however, there is also something else at play: People who flaunt their infatuation with a different culture are expressing a disdain and contempt for their own. They are using the outward appearance of the exotic to separate themselves from the common folk who follow the local customs and laws, and to express their sense of superiority. Otherwise they would act with more dignity, showing respect for those who do not share their desires. Indeed their need to show their difference so dramatically often makes them disliked by the people whose beliefs they challenge, indirectly and subtly, perhaps, but offensively nonetheless.

As Thucydides wrote of Pausanias, “By his contempt for the laws and his imitation of foreign ways he had made himself very widely suspected of being unwilling to abide by normal standards.” Cultures have norms that reflect centuries of shared beliefs and ideals. Do not expect to scoff at such things with impunity. You will be punished somehow, even if just through isolation—a position of real powerlessness.

Many of us, like Pausanias, feel the siren call of the exotic, the foreign. Measure and moderate this desire. Flaunting your pleasure in alien ways of thinking and acting will reveal a different motive—to demonstrate your superiority over your fellows.

Wise men [should be] like coffers with double bottoms: Which when others look into, being opened, they see not all that they hold.

SIR WALTER RALEIGH, 1554-1618

WHEN THE WATERS WERE CHANGED

Once upon a time Khidr, the teacher of Moses, called upon mankind with a warning. At a certain date, he said, all the water in the world which had not been specially hoarded, would disappear. It would then be renewed, with different water, which would drive men mad. Only one man listened to the meaning of this advice. He collected water and went to a secure place where he stored it, and waited for the water to change its character. On the appointed date the streams stopped running, the wells went dry, and the man who had listened, seeing this happening, went to his retreat and drank his preserved water. When he saw, from his security, the waterfalls again beginning to flow, this man descended among the other sons of men. He found that they were thinking and talking in an entirely different way from before; yet they had no memory of what had happened, nor of having been warned. When he tried to talk to them, he realized that they thought that he was mad, and they showed hostility or compassion, not understanding. At first he drank none of the new water, but went back to his concealment, to draw on his supplies, every day. Finally, however, he took the decision to drink the new water because he could not bear the loneliness of living, behaving and thinking in a different way from everyone else. He drank the new water, and became like the rest. Then he forgot all about his own store of special water, and his fellows began to look upon him as a madman who had miraculously been restored to sanity.

TALES OF THE DERVISHES, IDRIES SHAH, 1967

OBSERVANCE OF THE LAW

During the late sixteenth century, a violent reaction against the Protestant Reformation erupted in Italy. The Counter-Reformation, as it was called, included its own version of the Inquisition to root out all deviations from the Catholic Church. Among its victims was the scientist Galileo, but an important thinker who suffered even greater persecution was the Dominican monk and philosopher Tommaso Campanella.

A follower of the materialist doctrine of the Roman philosopher Epicurus, Campanella did not believe in miracles, or in heaven and hell. The Church had promoted such superstitions, he wrote, to control the common folk by keeping them in fear. Such ideas verged on atheism, and Campanella expressed them incautiously. In 1593 the Inquisition threw him into prison for his heretical beliefs. Six years later, as a form of partial release, he was confined to a monastery in Naples.

Southern Italy was controlled by Spain at the time, and in Naples Campanella became involved in a plot to fight and throw out these invaders. His hope was to establish an independent republic based on his own ideas of utopia. The leaders of the Italian Inquisition, working with their Spanish counterparts, had him imprisoned again. This time they also tortured him, to discover the true nature of his impious beliefs: He was subjected to the infamous la veglia, a torture in which he was suspended by his arms in a squatting position a few inches above a seat studded with spikes. The posture was impossible to sustain, and in time the victim would end up sitting on the spikes, which would tear his flesh at the slightest contact.

During these years, however, Campanella learned something about power. Facing the prospect of execution for heresy, he changed his strategy: He would not renounce his beliefs, yet he knew he had to disguise their outward appearance.

To save his life, Campanella feigned madness. He let his inquisitors imagine that his beliefs stemmed from an incontrollable unsoundness of mind. For a while the tortures continued, to see if his insanity was faked, but in 1603 his sentence was commuted to life in prison. The first four years of this he spent chained to a wall in an underground dungeon. Despite such conditions, he continued to write—although no longer would he be so foolish as to express his ideas directly.

One book of Campanella’s, The Hispanic Monarchy, promoted the idea that Spain had a divine mission to expand its powers around the world, and offered the Spanish king practical, Machiavelli-type advice for achieving this. Despite his own interest in Machiavelli, the book in general presented ideas completely the opposite to his own. The Hispanic Monarchy was in fact a ploy, an attempt to show his conversion to orthodoxy in the boldest manner possible. It worked: In 1626, six years after its publication, the pope finally let Campanella out of prison.

Shortly after gaining his freedom, Campanella wrote Atheism Conquered, a book attacking free-thinkers, Machiavellians, Calvinists, and heretics of all stripes. The book is written in the form of debates in which heretics express their beliefs and are countered by arguments for the superiority of Catholicism. Campanella had obviously reformed—his book made that clear. Or did it?

The arguments in the mouths of the heretics had never before been expressed with such verve and freshness. Pretending to present their side only to knock it down, Campanella actually summarized the case against Catholicism with striking passion. When he argued the other side, supposedly his side, on the other hand, he resorted to stale clichés and convoluted rationales. Brief and eloquent, the heretics’ arguments seemed bold and sincere. The lengthy arguments for Catholicism seemed tiresome and unconvincing.

Catholics who read the book found it disturbing and ambiguous, but they could not claim it was heretical, or that Campanella should be returned to prison. His defense of Catholicism, after all, used arguments they had used themselves. Yet in the years to come, Atheism Conquered became a bible for atheists, Machiavellians and libertines who used the arguments Campanella had put in their mouths to defend their dangerous ideas. Combining an outward display of conformity with an expression of his true beliefs in a way that his sympathizers would understand, Campanella showed that he had learned his lesson.

Interpretation

In the face of awesome persecution, Campanella devised three strategic moves that saved his hide, freed him from prison, and allowed him to continue to express his beliefs. First he feigned madness—the medieval equivalent of disavowing responsibility for one’s actions, like blaming one’s parents today. Next he wrote a book that expressed the exact opposite of his own beliefs. Finally, and most brilliantly of all, he disguised his ideas while insinuating them at the same time. It is an old but powerful trick: You pretend to disagree with dangerous ideas, but in the course of your disagreement you give those ideas expression and exposure. You seem to conform to the prevailing orthodoxy, but those who know will understand the irony involved. You are protected.

It is inevitable in society that certain values and customs lose contact with their original motives and become oppressive. And there will always be those who rebel against such oppression, harboring ideas far ahead of their time. As Campanella was forced to realize, however, there is no point in making a display of your dangerous ideas if they only bring you suffering and persecution. Martyrdom serves no purpose—better to live on in an oppressive world, even to thrive in it. Meanwhile find a way to express your ideas subtly for those who understand you. Laying your pearls before swine will only bring you trouble.

Never combat any man‘s opinion; for though you reached the age of Methuselah, you would never have done setting him right upon all the absurd things that he believes.

It is also well to avoid correcting people’s mistakes in conversation, however good your intentions may be; for it is easy to offend people, and difficult, if not impossible to mend them.

If you feel irritated by the absurd remarks of two people whose conversation you happen to overhear, you should imagine that you are listening to the dialogue of two fools in a comedy. Probatum est.

The man who comes into the world with the notion that he is really going to instruct it in matters of the highest importance, may thank his stars if he escapes with a whole skin.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER, 1788-1860

For a long time I have not said what I believed, nor do I ever believe what I say, and if indeed sometimes I do happen to tell the truth, I hide it among so many lies that it is hard to find.

Niccolò Machiavelli, in a letter to Francesco Gnicciardini, May 17, 1521

KEYS TO POWER

We all tell lies and hide our true feelings, for complete free expression is a social impossibility. From an early age we learn to conceal our thoughts, telling the prickly and insecure what we know they want to hear, watching carefully lest we offend them. For most of us this is natural—there are ideas and values that most people accept, and it is pointless to argue. We believe what we want to, then, but on the outside we wear a mask.

There are people, however, who see such restraints as an intolerable infringement on their freedom, and who have a need to prove the superiority of their values and beliefs. In the end, though, their arguments convince only a few and offend a great deal more. The reason arguments do not work is that most people hold their ideas and values without thinking about them. There is a strong emotional content in their beliefs: They really do not want to have to rework their habits of thinking, and when you challenge them, whether directly through your arguments or indirectly through your behavior, they are hostile.

Wise and clever people learn early on that they can display conventional behavior and mouth conventional ideas without having to believe in them. The power these people gain from blending in is that of being left alone to have the thoughts they want to have, and to express them to the people they want to express them to, without suffering isolation or ostracism. Once they have established themselves in a position of power, they can try to convince a wider circle of the correctness of their ideas—perhaps working indirectly, using Campanella’s strategies of irony and insinuation.

In the late fourteenth century, the Spanish began a massive persecution of the Jews, murdering thousands and driving others out of the country. Those who remained in Spain were forced to convert. Yet over the next three hundred years, the Spanish noticed a phenomenon that disturbed them: Many of the converts lived their outward lives as Catholics, yet somehow managed to retain their Jewish beliefs, practicing the religion in private. Many of these so-called Marranos (originally a derogatory term, being the Spanish for “pig”) attained high levels of government office, married into the nobility, and gave every appearance of Christian piety, only to be discovered late in life as practicing Jews. (The Spanish Inquisition was specifically commissioned to ferret them out.) Over the years they mastered the art of dissimulation, displaying crucifixes liberally, giving generous gifts to churches, even occasionally making anti-Semitic remarks—and all the while maintaining their inner freedom and beliefs.

In society, the Marranos knew, outward appearances are what matter. This remains true today. The strategy is simple: As Campanella did in writing Atheism Conquered, make a show of blending in, even going so far as to be the most zealous advocate of the prevailing orthodoxy. If you stick to conventional appearances in public few will believe you think differently in private.

THE CITIZEN AND THE TRAVELLER

“Look around you,” said the citizen. “This is the largest market in the world.” “Oh surely not,” said the traveller. “Well, perhaps not the largest,” said the citizen, “but much the best.” “You are certainly wrong there,” said the traveller. “I can tell you....” They buried the stranger in the dusk.

FABLES, ROBERT Louis STEVENSON, 1850-1894

If Machiavelli had had a prince for disciple, the first thing he would have recommended him to do would have been to write a book against Machiavellism.

VOLTAIRE, 1694-1778

Do not be so foolish as to imagine that in our own time the old orthodoxies are gone. Jonas Salk, for instance, thought science had gotten past politics and protocol. And so, in his search for a polio vaccine, he broke all the rules—going public with a discovery before showing it to the scientific community, taking credit for the vaccine without acknowledging the scientists who had paved the way, making himself a star. The public may have loved him but scientists shunned him. His disrespect for his community’s orthodoxies left him isolated, and he wasted years trying to heal the breach, and struggling for funding and cooperation.

Bertolt Brecht underwent a modem form of Inquisition—the House Un-American Activities Committee—and approached it with considerable canniness. Having worked off and on in the American film industry during World War II, in 1947 Brecht was summoned to appear before the committee to answer questions on his suspected Communist sympathies. Other writers called before the committee made a point of attacking its members, and of acting as belligerently as possible in order to gain sympathy for themselves. Brecht, on the other hand, who had actually worked steadfastly for the Communist cause, played the opposite game: He answered questions with ambiguous generalities that defied easy interpretation. Call it the Campanella strategy. Brecht even wore a suit—a rare event for him-and made a point of smoking a cigar during the proceedings, knowing that a key committee member had a passion for cigars. In the end he charmed the committee members, who let him go scot-free.

Brecht then moved to East Germany, where he encountered a different kind of Inquisition. Here the Communists were in power, and they criticized his plays as decadent and pessimistic. He did not argue with them, but made small changes in the performance scripts to shut them up. Meanwhile he managed to preserve the published texts as written. His outward conformity in both cases gave him the freedom to work unhindered, without having to change his thinking. In the end, he made his way safely through dangerous times in different countries through the use of little dances of orthodoxy, and proved he was more powerful than the forces of repression.

Not only do people of power avoid the offenses of Pausanias and Salk, they also learn to play the clever fox and feign the common touch. This has been the ploy of con artists and politicians throughout the centuries. Leaders like Julius Caesar and Franklin D. Roosevelt have overcome their natural aristocratic stance to cultivate a familiarity with the common man. They have expressed this familiarity in little gestures, often symbolic, to show the people that their leaders share popular values, despite their different status.

The logical extension of this practice is the invaluable ability to be all things to all people. When you go into society, leave behind your own ideas and values, and put on the mask that is most appropriate for the group in which you find yourself. Bismarck played this game successfully for years—there were people who vaguely understood what he was up to, but not clearly enough that it mattered. People will swallow the bait because it flatters them to believe that you share their ideas. They will not take you as a hypocrite if you are careful—for how can they accuse you of hypocrisy if you do not let them know exactly what you stand for? Nor will they see you as lacking in values. Of course you have values—the values you share with them, while in their company.

Authority: Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you. (Jesus Christ, Matthew 7:6)

Image: The Black The herd shuns the Sheep. black sheep, uncertain whether or not it belongs with them. So it straggles behind, or wanders away from the herd, where it is cornered by wolves and promptly devoured. Stay with the herd—there is safety in numbers. Keep your differences in your thoughts and not in your fleece.

REVERSAL

The only time it is worth standing out is when you already stand out—when you have achieved an unshakable position of power, and can display your difference from others as a sign of the distance between you. As president of the United States, Lyndon Johnson would sometimes hold meetings while he sat on the toilet. Since no one else either could or would claim such a “privilege,” Johnson was showing people that he did not have to observe the protocols and niceties of others. The Roman emperor Caligula played the same game: He would wear a woman’s negligee, or a bathrobe, to receive important visitors. He even went so far as to have his horse elected consul. But it backfired, for the people hated Caligula, and his gestures eventually brought his overthrow. The truth is that even those who attain the heights of power would be better off at least affecting the common touch, for at some point they may need popular support.

Finally, there is always a place for the gadfly, the person who successfully defies custom and mocks what has grown lifeless in a culture. Oscar Wilde, for example, achieved considerable social power on this foundation: He made it clear that he disdained the usual ways of doing things, and when he gave public readings his audiences not only expected him to insult them but welcomed it. We notice, however, that his eccentric role eventually destroyed him. Even had he come to a better end, remember that he possessed an unusual genius: Without his gift to amuse and delight, his barbs would simply have offended people.

[honysuns]

Vertex in the Signs

Vertex in Aries

Vertex symbolYou are expected to pick up the reins of leadership, initiate new directions, take a decisive stand, overcome inhibitions to activate personal drive, learn courage, and conquer fears.

Doing these things may satisfy a fundamental need for expression that you are psychologically ready to fulfill. It can challenge your ability to lead, troubleshoot, or innovate, and it can bring abilities forward from your unconscious that you were not aware of. You can gain awareness of personal courage and self-identity as well.

Not accomplishing these things may put the initiative into another’s hands or leave you unfulfilled because you have compromised or fallen into tempting mediocrity. It is also possible that you will develop a gap in your personality because of a psychologically damaging identity complex.

Vertex in Taurus

You are expected to complete something already set in motion. Others expect you to become self-sustaining and self-supporting, to deal with security problems, and to support the arts in some way. People want you to deal with the world on a material level.

Accomplishing these things may create a solution for a severe emotional or material lack. You outgrow dependency on others and manage your own affairs.

Not doing so may keep you from attaining the self-esteem that you could gain from being self-sufficient. You may also feel social or emotional indebtedness.

Vertex in Gemini

You are expected to bring your ability to communicate or write to the fore, and to use hard-core facts to clarify situations. People expect you to come up with ideas and present them clearly, speak, write, or instruct, debate your own view point, and gain a position as a spokesperson.

Doing these things may improve your ability to get your ideas across to others because you learn to choose your words carefully and have the facts to back them up. You also gain the confidence to speak out because you have developed communication skills and maintained a youthful curiosity. In short, you are well prepared with facts when tested.

Not developing these skills allows you to generalize or go off on a tangent, losing the point you are trying to make. You may avoid research and fail to achieve mental flexibility and clarity, or you may get hung up on a single goal instead of developing the diversity you need.

Vertex in Cancer

You are expected to deal with the public or in the public interest, handle the emotional factors in situations, and learn to deal with women or public figures. People also anticipate your ability to spot trends and accept a background or parental role, and to acknowledge the emotional side of your nature.

Doing these things may help you to develop your nurturing qualities and to recognize your own dependency needs as legitimate concerns in your life. You may also discover a capacity to play the parent role to the world.

Not accomplishing these things may put you at the mercy of other people’s emotions. Situations become distorted and conflicts develop with people who feel you have let them down. You may also give in to the temptation to suppress your emotions.

Vertex in Leo

You are expected to become an individual and not just a member of the group, and to project your own emotions in a special relationship instead of maintaining emotional separation. People expect you to be responsible for teaching, working on an entertainment project, or dealing with young people or children. You also should acknowledge and accept your need for admiration.

In doing these things, you may become aware of your own individuality or creative expression. You give outer expression to the affectionate, creative side of your nature. You strengthen your own ego by helping other people to develop theirs, and you instill confidence and self-worth in those around you through your magnetism and dignity.

Not accomplishing these tasks may lead to a psychologically crippling ego-complex or create conflict within you. You could suffer from the same impersonal treatment you sometimes indulge in.

Vertex in Virgo

You are expected to use your practical insights and your ability to discover flaws. People also want you to provide service, compile material for practical use, and supply work details. You should develop your discriminating faculties, become a useful and productive member of society, and develop conscientious habits and the ability to accept criticism.

Doing these things may make you feel useful in the world and offset a tendency to worry about your health. You also learn to believe in your own self-worth, regardless of the opinions of others. Finally, you are able to function at your most efficient level, knowing that your life has meaning.

Not doing so may bring inner conflict because you give in to confusion. You can make yourself nearly invisible. You can also create disorder in your life and a feeling of uselessness.

Vertex in Libra

You are expected to bring opposing factions together, counsel or arbitrate on a fair and equal basis, or seek a satisfactory compromise. You also may develop a cooperative spirit and sense of fair play to help yourself and others to move forward. You may become conscious of a persecution complex that produces inner conflict. You also can relate to others as equals, thereby creating inner balance and avoiding unreasonable social demands. You are expected to cultivate the arts of compromise and detachment.

Accomplishing these tasks may help you to put aside personal ego in partnerships. You also learn to relate to others with a sense of justice. Finally, you learn how to accept the need for balance in your personal life and in your environment.

Not doing so may result in a situation in which you are biased in judgment, and this result could add to your agitation. You may become demanding, in which case you could allow self-centeredness that deepens relationship inhibitions. Then you could fall into both indecisiveness and inertia.

Vertex in Scorpio

You are expected to learn total self-mastery. You will explore the limits of your desires and appetites, defining the limits not only in terms of self but also out of respect for the rights of others. You will assist others in terms of mutual financial arrangements. You may deal with the dead or dying, healing, and good business practices in which you reform or recycle what is obsolete. You may provide concrete assistance to enhance the security of a partnership, acquaint yourself with metaphysics in order to sharpen perspective, and gain a sense of collective values. You may also bring occult knowledge forward into the light.

By doing these things, you may express an inner emotional need to reform, recycle, or find personal rebirth each time you are tested by appetites of the lower nature. Then you gain strength in the regenerative or healing forces of the higher realms, and you may be reborn to the higher self. You could be involved with the issues of working to gain the support of others as well.

If you don’t accomplish these goals, you may bow to the base material desires of others, creating a smoldering resentment within yourself. As a result, you may feel conflict and emotional insecurity.

Vertex in Sagittarius

You are expected to develop broad vision and a deeper understanding of the significance behind the facts. You may develop a new religious awareness or a philosophical view of things. You could become inspired by reaching toward higher truth. You may travel or attain a higher education, deal with legal principles, teach a class dealing with religion or philosophy, and editorialize, promote, or bring understanding to difficult situations.

Doing these things may teach you to have faith in yourself, your abilities, and your goals in life. You will learn that faith in yourself must come from faith in something outside the self.

Not accomplishing your goals may incline you to accept a law or principle without looking past the facts to see how it will actually affect people. You will find it difficult to accept the accolades and rewards you have earned and, instead, drift aimlessly through life.

Vertex in Capricorn

You are expected to accept the fact that in carrying out your duties and obligations, you prepare yourself for positions of greater responsibility. You need to accept limitations and diligently work through them. You will realize that you are being forced to develop organizational ability, caution, prudence, and patience. You may possibly run for an office at a time when no one else wants the position. You need to accept limitations whether they are self- imposed or imposed by the outside world.

Accomplishing these goals may make you aware of how much your organizing ability is needed. You will also purify the self through struggle and restriction.

Not fulfilling these tasks may keep you from moving up to a higher position, due to your apparent undependability, instability, or excuses. You may claim that you lack the necessary time due to domestic considerations. You may experience inner conflict if you see yourself as the victim of an unstable environment. You could also have subtle feelings of inferiority from your lack of discipline.

Vertex in Aquarius

You are expected to deal with all kinds of people, even those you feel you cannot tolerate. People want you to develop enough detachment to rise above individual pettiness so you see your peers not as strangers, but as “brothers.” You can grow through developing true individuality, unfettered by peer group pressures. You need to accept the idea that you are one among equals.

Doing these things may help you avoid feelings of superiority. You are not too important to bother with being a friend. You will learn to overcome your own ego.

Not accomplishing the above tasks may mean that you become the object of intolerant treatment from any group you are prejudiced against. You may be blocked by those you oppose, simply because they decline to create the future openings you need. Accomplishments become meaningless, and the impact you hope to make on the world falls well short of your expectations.

Vertex in Pisces

You are expected to develop selflessness and cultivate emotional or psychological insights rather than the practical, material insights that come more naturally to you. People want you to develop compassion and the ability to listen to people who may be hurting inside and simply need to know that someone cares. You may decide to serve in areas of confinement, institutions, or places where work must be done quietly behind the scenes. You will also need to accept the fact that we are children of the universe and are here in order to convey the ideal of infinite love and beauty to our less aware brethren.

If you accomplish the above tasks, you may grow through contact with the very people you have assisted. You will gain insights above and beyond practical considerations, and you will realize that you are basically secure in your knowledge of the scheme of things.

Not doing so you turn back into yourself, only to rediscover things you already know. This could generate a sense of futility, which can lead to despair and self-destruction.

———————————————————————

I pulled this straight from Cafeastrology.com, I’m not claiming this as mine.

Also, vertex in Cancer!! 🤪

[crosbysierra95]

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[funkymbtifiction]

Si-Fe-Ti-Ne or Ne-Fi-Te-Si? (non- stereotypical)

Hey mods! 

I would like to ask an unusual question.

Could you please help me to determine if someone is an enfp or an isfj? I am astonishingly lost.  Both personalities are perceiving dominants, so they prefer to collect information, and are therefore not quickly to judge or form long term decisions fast. Both are feelers, so they judge by a value system first. They both have F/T in the middle of their stack, so they back up their feelings with logic and switch between both easily and fast. 

They both use Ne, so their ideas are multi-focused not single focused like Ni. They both use Si so their memories are self referencing and smells, touches, sounds, remind them of personal times.  If the person is not well balanced they might get into a grip, so the isfj will act like Ne, and the enfp will act like a Si. But if they are balanced they won’t show the typical stereotypical behavior of their inferior function Ne/Si. 

Looping they have SiTi and NeTe, which are different, one is extroverted and the other introverted, but both have a perceiving and a detached function operating, one would be more focused on understanding systems and the other on creating, but how can you know if the person is looping or if they are just using their entire stack?

To me those are the two more similar types and I just can’t determine which one fits accurately.  I do know that Te is different than Ti and Fe is different than Fi, but together Fi/Te and Fe/Ti they seem the same somehow. I have read extensively about each function and each function in characters, but an isfj and a enfp both healthy are too similar in my mind.

Could you please contrast a 2w1 6w7 1w9 so/sx isfj and a 2w1 6w7 1w9 so/sx enfp? ( I know enneagram is not something we should use to compare types, but otherwise they would be too different)

I appreciate the help. I know it doesn’t make sense to mix the both of them up, but I am just stuck in it.  Thanks.

ENFPs and ISFJs are really… not alike. At all. Their blind spots are way different. Even when healthy, you’re going to see the areas in which they make consistent mistakes and cause conflict with others.

In a nutshell, an ENFP reacts quickly in the moment, needing no down time to respond to things going on in their environment. They can come up with things on the fly, they have no trouble adjusting their plans at the last second (may even do so voluntarily), and they have excellent short-term foresight. By that, I mean their Ne/Te can see how doing THIS will play out and resolve THAT PROBLEM within a relatively short amount of time. Nip it right in the bud. And because they’re a high Intuitive, presuming they are healthy, it works, because the idea is “good.” The area in their life, however, that causes them the most frustration, anxiety, and even conflict lies with… Si. Details. They’re dreadful at it. Things like remembering people’s names, remembering details of things they have created, retaining information and, above all, route learning (so as to become an expert, and not just a “fill in the blanks and hope for the best” person) is hard for them. Where will they screw up at work? Details. Where will they screw up with friends? Details. What’s the biggest source of their frustration? Details. Their biggest single problem is rushing to implement their new ideas, without stopping to consider the plausibility or work involved – in other words, the details necessary to make it work.

Details are what the ISFJ excels at. No problem. They know how to memorize and learn. More than that, they have the patience to learn things properly. To spend hours and hours practicing their technique and honing their skills. It’s the difference between a Ne-dom who says, “I want to become an expert pianist,” and buys a keyboard, but finds the basic books they have to practice with boring and gives up after two weeks because they haven’t become an expert overnight (unrealistic Ne-dom expectation, accompanied by grand dreams of playing in front of a massive crowd and being marveled at), and the patient Si-dom who starts out with the beginner book, masters that, moves on to the next book, masters that, moves on to the next, masters that… and winds up a flawless pianist, because they did it right. They followed the tried-and-true method they knew would lead to success, if you followed each step. And they did each step. Over and over, until it comes second nature to them.

The Ne-dom has trouble finding the patience for that. An ENFP will only do it if it’s absolute what their Fi values and desires – if their lifelong dream is to become a pianist, they will learn, force themselves to take the “slow path” (unlike the speed train they’re usually on); but in general, slow and steady brings success route does not come naturally to them. So, they’ll be an expert, detailed pianist… and in all the rest of their life, back to half-assed fast.

No, where the ISFJ fails is in abstract concepts. Seeing what is possible with a positive attitude, and believing it can and will happen; being excited for it (instead of fearful). Inferior Ne misreads situations – badly. It attributes the wrong motives to things, because it’s out of touch with the environment. That “see the problem coming and head it off” that Ne/Te is so good at, inferior Ne can’t do. You will see the difference, because strong Ne resolves issues in the present and near future skillfully, whereas a low Ne’s hasty impulsive “fix” may worsen the problem and/or underestimate the severity of it. High Ne is better at accurately evaluating genuine threats; low Ne may choose the wrong threat to focus on, and miss the actual one, because of Si/Ne’s tendency to build toward something, rather than Ne/Si’s tendency to be “drifting” in possibilities.

And, of course, FiTe and FeTi’s methods differ. FiTe never mirrors people’s feelings and does not engage in messing with people for fun; sooner or later, you are going to see tert-Te come out and shove people out of the way to get something done, with an attitude of “either help or move.” FeTi does mirror people’s feelings, with the result that the FeTi can lose a sense of their own feelings and what they want, while being better at reading other people’s needs. Fe will try persuasion and organizing others to accomplish, at times (not always, sometimes ISFJs want to be left alone to work), but it’s focus is always on what others want, need, and how they’re feeling. Fi’s focus is always on being “true to myself” (but with a healthy Fi, “but also kind to YOU”).

A 2 fix isn’t going to magically make a Fi able to mirror people; they will simply do kind things for others, using their Te to accomplish it, and crave love. Think about Arwen in The Lord of the Rings. As a Fi, she wanted to keep social harmony with her loved ones. She tried to please her father by leaving Middle-earth – and then returned, because it wasn’t true to herself, to her Fi, to what she wanted. Despite being devoted to Aragorn, and a “helper” (2) who motivated, encouraged, and pushed him to be all he could be, she still felt a strong need to be true to herself. She helped, but it was what SHE thought he needed (Fi detachment from Other). Compare that to a 2 Fe, who will ACTUALLY FEEL what people need, and use that to give it to them.

Margaery Tyrell in Game of Thrones is a core 2 and a Fe. She knows what and how to appeal to others, how to seduce them, make them like her, how to smooth things over with them. It’s all about being whatever they need her to be, and in so doing, advancing her own cause (to become queen). But it’s still instant and fully aware of what they want; no guessing.

A 6 anywhere in a stack will make an intuitive more risk-prone than the stereotypes for their type; it will bring out more of a tendency to play it safe and even stay home / not go wandering in an ENFP, but their Si will STILL be awful. 6 doesn’t repair the speed train. They will still make it all up as they go along, and have unrealistic expectations for themselves, and make mistakes based in not thinking through the details. The 6 and Si-dom is pretty much stereotypical 6. Worst-case scenario prone. Risk-adverse. A fear of the unknown. But they will still be good at everything the ENFP isn’t, namely… details. Learning. And repeat, repeat, repeat to reach perfection. A 9 fix will further make the ENFP want to “suppress” their Fi, to get along; make them shut up to be liked and avoid conflict, but there will still be bursts of tert-Te bossiness and bluntness (control freak, and over-using Te, poorly – like a bull in a china shop) you’ll never find in an ISFJ.

Their flaws: the ENFP moves too fast, because they didn’t stop to collect details and everything they needed before they speculated; the ISFJ processes things more slowly and sometimes misses out, because it took them longer to reach a (more detail-accurate) conclusion than the ENFP (but the ENFP’s Ne might have been bang on, it’s just a vague / half-constructed argument).

- ENFP Mod

[douchebagbrainwaves]

STARTUPS AND PEOPLE

Practically every successful startup will get acquisition offers. Growing too slowly is particularly dangerous in a business with network effects, which the best startups get started. Agriculture, cities, and industrialization all spread widely. Because I had to show for itself after ten weeks. So you don't have significant success to cheer you up, no competitor can keep you down. It's hard for anyone much younger than me to understand the fear Microsoft still inspired in 1995. If it's default dead, whereas it's very dangerous to start worrying too early that you're default dead, we probably need to talk about how to solve it. Focusing on hitting a growth rate reduces the otherwise bewilderingly multifarious problem of starting a startup is not merely the curse of Y Combinator but part of what it means. The test of any investment is the ratio of help to money increases, because earlier stage companies have different needs. That's why I'd use the word unfair to describe this approach is that it gives you an excuse for failure.

Everyone I can think of three problems that could arise from using less common languages. The reason is that it's not that hard to build something that makes $3000 a month? Everyone admires Jane Austen. Most high school students applying to college do it with the usual child's mix of inferiority and self-centeredness: inferiority in that they assume that admissions committees must be all-seeing; self-centeredness: inferiority in that they invest exclusively in the earliest stages, will invest based on a two-page agreement. The way I studied for exams in these classes was not except incidentally to master the material taught in the class, but to most people at the time. Whereas if you ask, could you make an open-source Unix variant called FreeBSD instead of a real commercial OS like Windows NT, for ignoring a supposed e-commerce experts. We're default dead, start asking too early. This is a complicated topic. This practice is not only common, but recently we've been using a medium of exchange—can be anything that's rare and portable. In retrospect, he was intellectually curious.

But that, if not with that sentence with some fairly impressive ones, so long as he built something good enough to spread by word of mouth they start to suck, they're out. No, not generally. It would still have been a bargain to buy us at an early stage, but companies doing acquisitions are not looking for finished, smooth presentations. Who do I use as a todo list. If that were true, he would be right on target. It wasn't just Yahoo. When del. In this case, you trade violins for, say, Python? If you wanted to create a data structure to hold the value of your initial version not as a way to develop a product. Kids are good at building things, not ones who are very smart, totally dedicated, and win the lottery. Experience suggests b is a thousand times more likely. No one was leaking news of their features to us.

You may be nominally a student for a bit, but you can still end up constrained in a. There is, as you did in college. If the founders have impressive resumes and the idea is much older than Henry Ford. There were two types of responses: that you have to ignore what other people are doing it. Let the nerds keep their lunch money, and if people aren't using your software, maybe it's not just because you're bad at marketing. It was a lens of heroes. Google has after search. Result: this revolution, if it is one, will be your own confidence in it. And if you have a better chance of generating those if you combine stuff from distant fields.

That may sound like a company where the technical side, at least as a kind of social convention, high-level, you reach a point where there is nothing new our startup can teach us about funding—or at least the term artificial intelligence, and was an early member of both of the top VC firms, because of the scale of the Industrial Revolution? The important part is not whether he makes ten million a year seems high to some people, it will be to relax and go back to their partners looking like they got beaten. Usually you can find this by asking why now? Startups usually involve technology, so much so that the phrase high-tech product of the imagination of nature, which, as Feynman pointed out, what industry best practice. It would set off alarms. We've now invested in enough companies that I've learned a trick for determining which points are the counterintuitive ones: they're the ones I have to bother being diplomatic with a British audience. If you want to avoid being surprised, the next morning, one of the things you need initially: an idea and cofounders.

[djgblogger-blog]

New NHTSA Robocar regulations are a major, but positive, reversal

http://bit.ly/2f0i5Mr

NHTSA released their latest draft robocar regulations just a week after the U.S. House passed a new regulatory regime and the senate started working on its own. The proposed regulations preempt state regulation of vehicle design, and allow companies to apply for high volume exemptions from the standards that exist for human-driven cars.

It’s clear that the new approach will be quite different from the Obama-era one, much more hands-off. There are not a lot of things to like about the Trump administration but this could be one of them. The prior regulations reached 116 pages with much detail, though they were mostly listed as “voluntary.” I wrote a long critique of the regulations in a 4 part series which can be found in my NHTSA tag. They seem to have paid attention to that commentary and the similar commentary of others.

At 26 pages, the new report is much more modest, and actually says very little. Indeed, I could sum it up as follows:

Do the stuff you’re already doing

Pay attention to where and when your car can drive and document that

Document your processes internally and for the public

Go to the existing standards bodies (SAE, ISO etc.) for guidance

Create a standard data format for your incident logs

Don’t forget all the work on crash avoidance, survival and post-crash safety in modern cars that we worked very hard on

Plans for how states and the feds will work together on regulating this

Goals vs. Approaches

The document does a better job at understanding the difference between goals — public goods that it is the government’s role to promote — and approaches to those goals, which should be entirely the province of industry.

The new document is much more explicit that the 12 “safety design elements” are voluntary. I continue to believe that there is a risk they may not be truly voluntary, as there will be great pressure to conform with them, and possible increased liability for those who don’t, but the new document tries to avoid that, and its requests are much milder.

The document understands the important realization that developers in this space will be creating new paths to safety and establishing new and different concepts of best practices. Existing standards have value, but they can at best encode conventional wisdom. Robocars will not be created using conventional wisdom. The new document takes the approach of more likely recommending that the existing standards be considered, which is a reasonable plan.

A lightweight regulatory philosophy

My own analysis is guided by a lightweight regulatory approach which has been the norm until now. The government’s role is to determine important public goals and interests, and to use regulations and enforcement when, and only when, it becomes clear that industry can’t be trusted to meet these goals on its own.

In particular, the government should very rarely regulate how something should be done, and focus instead on what needs to happen as the end result, and why. In the past, all automotive safety technologies were developed by vendors and deployed, sometimes for decades, before they were regulated. When they were regulated, it was more along the lines of “All cars should now have anti-lock brakes.” Only with the more mature technologies have the regulations had to go into detail on how to build them.

Worthwhile public goals include safety, of course, and the promotion of innovation. We want to encourage both competition and cooperation in the right places. We want to protect consumer rights and privacy. (The prior regulations proposed a mandatory sharing of incident data which is watered down greatly in these new regulations.)

I call this lightweight because others have called for a great deal more regulation. I don’t, however, view it is highly laissez-faire. Driving is already highly regulated, and the idea that regulators would need to write rules to prevent companies from doing things they have shown no evidence of doing seems odd to me. Particularly in a fast-changing field where regulators (and even developers) admit they have limited knowledge of what the technology’s final form will actually be.

Stating the obvious

While I laud the reduction of detail in these regulations, it’s worth pointing out that many of the remaining sections are stripped to the point of mostly outlining “motherhood” requirements — requirements which are obvious and that every developer has known for some time. You don’t have to say that the vehicle should follow the vehicle code and not hit other cars. Anybody who needs to be told that is not a robocar developer. The set of obvious goals belongs better in a non-governmental advice document (which this does in fact declare itself in part to be, though of course governmental) than in something considered regulatory.

Overstating the obvious and discouraging the “black box.”

Sometimes a statement can be both obvious but also possibly wrong in the light of new technology. The document has many requirements that vendors document their thinking and processes which may be very difficult to do with systems built with machine learning. Machine learning sometimes produces a “black box” that works, but there is minimal knowledge as to how it works. It may be that such systems will outperform other systems, leaving us with the dilemma of choosing between a superior system we can’t document and understand, and an inferior one we can.

There is a new research area known as “explainable AI” which hopes to bridge this gap and make it possible to document and understand why machine learning systems operate as they do. This is promising research but it may never be complete. In spite of this, EU regulations currently are already attempting to forbid unexplainable AI. This may cut off very productive avenues of development — we don’t know enough to be sure about this as yet.

Some minor notes

The name

The new report pushes a new term — Automated Driving Systems. It seems every iteration comes up with a new name. The field is really starting to need a name people agree on, since nobody seems to much like driverless cars, self-driving cars, autonomous vehicles, automated vehicles, robocars or any of the others. This one is just as unwieldy, and its acronym is an English word and thus hard to search for.

The levels

The SAE levels continue to be used. I have been critical of the levels before, recently in this satire. It is wrong to try to understand robocars primarily through the role of humans in their operation, and wrong to suggest there is a progression of levels based on that.

The 12 safety elements

As noted, most of the sections simply advise obvious policies which everybody is already doing, and advise that teams document what they are doing.

1. System Safety

This section is modest, and describes fairly common existing practices for high reliability software systems. (Almost to the point that there is no real need for the government to point them out.)

2. Operational Design Domain

The idea of defining the situations where the car can do certain things is a much better approach than imagining levels of human involvement. I would even suggest it replace the levels, and the human seen simply as one of the tools to be used to operate outside of certain domains. Still, I see minimal need for NHTSA to say this — everybody already knows that roads and their conditions are different and complex and need different classes of technology.

3. Object and Event Detection and Response, 4. Fallback, 5. Validation, 6. HMI

Again, this is fairly redundant. Vendors don’t need to be told that vehicles must obey the vehicle code and stay in their lane and not hit things. That’s already the law. They know that only with a fallback strategy can they approach the reliability needed.

7. Computer Security

While everything here is already on the minds of developers, I don’t fault the reminder here because traditional automakers have a history of having done security badly. The call for a central clearing house on attacks is good, though it should not necessarily be Auto-ISAC.

8. Occupant Protection

A great deal of the current FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) are about this, and because many vehicles may use exemptions from FMVSS to get going, a reminder about this is in order.

10. Data Recording

The most interesting proposal in the prior document was a requirement for public sharing of incident and crash data so that all teams could learn from every problem any team encounters. This would speed up development and improve safety, but vendors don’t like the fact it removes a key competitive edge — their corpus of driving experience.

The new document calls for a standard data format, and makes general motherhood calls for storing data in a crash, something everybody already does.

The call for a standard is actually difficult. Every vehicle has a different sensor suite and its own tools to examine the sensor data. Trying to standardize that on a truly useful level is a serious task. I had expected this task to fall to outside testing companies, who would learn (possibly reverse engineering) the data formats of each car and try to put them in a standard format that was actually useful. I fear a standard agreed upon by major players (who don’t want to share their data) will be minimal and less useful.

State Roles

A large section of the document is about the bureaucratic distribution of roles between states and federal bodies. I will provide analysis of this later.

Conclusion

This document reflects a major change, almost a reversal, and largely a positive one. Going forward from here, I would encourage that the debate on regulation focus on

What public goods does the government have an interest in protecting?

Which ones are vendors showing they can’t be trusted to support voluntarily, both by present actions and past history?

How can innovation be encouraged and facilitated, and good communication be made to the public about what’s going on

One of the key public goods missing from this document is privacy protection. This is one of the areas where vendors don’t have a great past history. Another one is civil rights protection — for example what powers police will want over cars — where the government has a bad history.

[funkymbtifiction]

Enneagram 8: The Challenger

(Tumblr removed the original post, so here’s a revised version.)

Healthy Eights are intelligent, courageous champions of the downtrodden who love to achieve the impossible. They know how to identify and use power, and understand and embrace vulnerability. Their defining traits are not wanting to be controlled, and their personality is best summed up by “go big or go home!”

Eight Traits

Eights are fiercely independent and defiant of authority

Eights want others to challenge them back

Eights want the truth or nothing

Eights want control over their own life

Eights can over-indulge their senses

Eights radiate energy and enjoy confrontation

Eights struggle to embrace their soft underbelly

Eight’s antagonism can sabotage their relationships

Enneagram Wings, Strength & Growth

8w7: are energetic, enthusiastic, and outgoing (7 influence) but can also be ambitious, impulsive, and reckless. They are the most energetic and entrepreneurial wing, and more social and expressive than other Eights.

8w9: are approachable and open to cooperation (9 influence). They are often good mediators and successful negotiators, who tend to be less reactive and more able to console others than the other Eights.

Under stress: Eights withdraw from others and become disconnected from their emotions, suffer sleep problems and neglect their physical needs, become secretive and paranoid about others’ intentions and/or refuse to compromise (unhealthy 5 influences).

When feeling secure: embrace and no longer hide their gentler nature, have learned they do not need to be right all the time, listen to others’ views, permit others to care for them, and abandon vengeance (healthy 2 influence).

Advice for the 8: tell someone you trust to warn you when your behavior becomes excessive, and befriend your inner child; avoid black and white thinking and hold back from destroying people who cross you; remember how ‘big’ your personality is and don’t run people over with it. Instead of reacting in anger, ask yourself if you are avoiding another emotion. Let people in.

Influences on MBTI Types:

ISTJ: more aggressive and confrontational than other ISTJ Enneagram types, prone to being direct when others are not pulling their weight in common areas (work, school, etc), may develop too-rigid of black and white thinking, based on factual evidence and influenced by personal experiences (Si/Te/Fi, with inferior Ne lack of development / 8 blocking Ne’s natural desire to “open up to other possible interpretations”).

ESTJ: the 8 builds on the ESTJ’s natural desire to show competency and strong leadership in the outside world, and will shift the ESTJ into a strong patriarch / matriarch position over their family unit (Si “roles”). They will be aggressively protective of themselves and others “in their tribe,” while being intolerant / frustrated by family members who are not aggressive enough in being industrious or standing up for themselves (their expectations may be too high for their kids, which ties in to lower Fi development / the 8’s lack of being in touch with their sensitive side).

ISFJ: the 8’s influence on ISFJ would make them fiercely protective of their loved ones, as well as painfully obvious as to how they do not “fit in” with other SFJ types; Fe’s influence to fit in might conflict with their 8 desire to challenge authority, and make them less flexible in considering their moral absolutes (and how they feel others should be treated) could be wrong (inferior Ne resistance).

ESFJ: would use their Fe-dom to recruit others to common causes for the betterment of society, and show aggression when challenging anyone who abuses their position of power and against injustices; Si’s influence would make the 8 care more about immediate impact, rather than far-reaching influences, and their positions would be strongly-expressed but not always fully fleshed out on a systematic level (inferior Ti).

INTJ: a more aggressive and confrontational INTJ than others, who builds up and relies on their inferior Se when tackling the 8’s need for “indulgence” – may be more proactive in chasing what they want, in involving oneself in the external environment, in tackling challenges to prove they can do it, and in their sexual appetites. May not seek authority positions, but also will refuse to follow incompetent leadership, and be reckless under pressure.

ENTJ: the energetic visionary who fills the room, who suffers no fools, and who may have a problem with grinding the opposition into dust in their pursuit of fulfillment. The 8 would play heavily into tert-Se “desires” and make them a highly energetic, insatiable type prone to over-excess; the inferior Fi might, as in the ESTJ, make their expectations for family members / children / employees higher than what they are capable of (paired with Ni’s tendency toward grand-scale expectations), while the 8 would play off Ni-perceptions in contributing to a black and white worldview.

INFJ: 8 would make this INFJ someone not content to just dream, but to build; it would create much more reliance on, and indulgence of, inferior Se needs, and run the risk of over-indulgences in dangerous ways (not knowing when to stop, how much their body can handle, or whether that might get them hurt). Since their Fe is secondary to Ni, their vision comes before the people involved, and the INFJ might develop a caustic attitude to anyone with less ambition and/or who challenges their black and white thinking. Likely to loop Ni/Ti in shredding other people’s arguments, and may not develop aux-Fe properly, out of fear of vulnerability.

ENFJ: an aggressive, charming combination who sees social wrongs and challenges them head-on, without fear, prone to over-indulgences of excess through tert-Se, who has a vision for a group of people, and leads them through competency, bombastic speaking skills, and sheer presence; Fe-dom would both soften the 8’s bluntness and aim it squarely at those the ENFJ feels are responsible for the current abuses. Inferior Ti issues would come from a lack of ability to self-analyze, or sense when their FeNi conclusions are too rigid. (See: Martin Luther King Jr.)

ESTP: an aggressive, physically imposing, confrontational, argumentative combination, who does not believe in backing away from a fight, literal or figurative, whose lower Ni development helps him/her spot people who are weak or incompetent; prone to not mincing words, challenging authority figures, and often undertakes leadership to appease the public’s general welfare (tert-Fe, which can often make the ESTP-8 “charming” and offset the tough edge). (See: Winston Churchill.)

ISTP: inferior Fe would make this ISTP even more out of touch with how people perceive them and how to soften the blow than other ISTP Enneagram combinations; they would see no reason for social appropriateness and instead, channel their intense energy into external projects. Often sharp-tongued and unable or unwilling to let faulty thinking go unchallenged. Has absolute faith in their Ti/Ni insights, may run the risk of a lack of nuance or in understanding emotional motivators, and have little respect for irrational or sensitive people.

ESFP: develops a strong tert-Te in order to achieve things in the outside world, is often confident, self-assertive, and prone to easy boredom; likes to seek out constant challenges at work / school / their personal life, and may create drama where there is none to self-entertain; values a few people very much (especially if they identify with them through Fi) and will champion them with total conviction. Quick to react, may dislike or hide their own emotions / suppress them, or learn to loop to avoid them, and often out of touch with the long-term consequences of their blow-up.

ISFP: a very physical introvert, whose hatred of authority plays off their Fi into total defiance, refusal to go along with anything they do not believe is right, etc. Often shapes itself into not wanting anyone else to be controlled or oppressed either, which can lead into aggressive behaviors directed toward those they see as immoral, cruel, incompetent, or bullies. Since Fi/Ni has such close associations, they often lack nuance in their thinking and are prone to black and white moral absolutes. (See: Arya Stark in Game of Thrones.)

ENTP: Ne shapes the 8 into the realm of the abstract, where they become combative and confrontational when it comes to ideas, defending them, and standing on rational ground; often innovative and successful if they can harness their power toward finishing a project rather than abandoning it; tert-Fe lends them a charm that helps soften the brutal aggression, but also keeps them out of touch with their emotions in combination with the 8’s desire to seem “tough”; often scorns “weak,” or “emotional” types and individuals; often pursues sensory pleasures more than the other Ne-dom types and over-indulges due to lack of Si inner body awareness.

INTP: the coworker who calls out the boss and/or coworkers on their utter stupidity and incompetence, rather than keep their mouth shut, but who does not much care to lead; the 8 will wreak havoc with tert-Si, in making them sensory-indulgent; like the ISTP-8, out of touch with how others perceive them, or in respecting others’ emotional cores and needs; often totally sure they are right, even if their theory is half baked (Ne’s tendency to ‘share’ before it gathers all the Si-details).

ENFP: has much more aggression than the other ENFPs, whose Ne/Fi makes them conflict-avoiding; will deliberately challenge people and use Ne/Te to rip holes in their arguments and/or underline more successful tactics; develops Te to prove competent in the outside world, may resist and /or avoid Fi development and as a result, be out of touch with their true desires and gentler self; like the ENTP, prone to aiming their energy into the abstract, and in aggressively defending, promoting, and actualizing new ideas. May try to dampen their natural open-mindedness, and develop rigid moral views as a result (indecisiveness is weakness!).

INFP: a defensive INFP who fights authority figures at every turn and battles their own indecisive nature, seeing their tendency to want to change their mind as weakness in themselves; has way more energy than is usual for the INFP type, and may not know when to slow down, prone to falling into inferior Te a lot in an attempt to prove themselves strong (but more often, inferior Te comes into play in harsh criticisms of general incompetency).

- ENFP Mod