#thinking back that really sounds similar to the old Disney Movie Can of Worms

[monsterfloofs]

I still sort of remember the turning point in my love of aliens / monsters. I was a chubby little kid with glasses and between being bullied at school for being a weirdo, and the rough family life. I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere. When the fights would happen at home I would go stand outside on our back porch, and look up at the stars.

I remember I used to wish the aliens would come pick me up, and take me away. (I was a huge extraterrestrial geek at the time and studied ufo cases) I would stand outside at night and wish for that as hard as I could. I used to also think that since I was seen as such a misfit here on Earth, I would fit right in with the aliens.

Haha, a funny reminscent thought of my childhood, and bittersweet.

[raeynbowboi]

Dating Disney: The Black Cauldron

The Black Cauldron is a 1985 Grimdark fantasy movie based primarily on the first two novels of the Chronicles of Prydain series by Lloyd Alexander written between 1964-1968. A primary reference and inspiration behind the series being the Mabinogion, a collection of early Celtic myths written in Middle Welsh. The character names also follow a Welsh naming conventions as Fflewdder Fflam uses the “Double F” found in the Welsh language, as a single F by itself makes a [v] sound in the Welsh language. The name Taran is also Welsh, meaning Thunder. So the movie is very neatly rooted in Wales, or Welsh-speaking Albion.

The Mabinogion

The Mabinogion is comprised of 4 main branches recounting Welsh mythology, compiled in the late 12th-13th centuries based on older oral traditions likely dating back to some time between 1050-1225. However, there are many suggestions as to when the stories might date from. (To hear a story from the Mabinogion, check out Red’s summary of Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed.)

Now, you may be wondering “why is there only 1 book on all Welsh mythology?” and I’m glad you hypothetically asked because it’s time to blame the Christians. Seriously, because Celtic mythology is loaded with god-like figures, Christian interpreters when they came to Albion censored or outright destroyed stories that implied that there was more than their God. Figures such as the Irish Tuatha de Dannan, which were godlike ancestral figures, had to be recontexualized as Faeries, Spirits, or Angels in order to avoid censorship by the Christian monks who transcribed these myths. Brigid, a very important Irish goddess, was Christianized into the figure of Saint Bridgette. This was actually an attempt by Christian missionaries to ease the pagans into Christianity. Essentially the mindset of “yeah, you can worship your holy figures, but uh, cut it out with the holy divine aspect. We can’t have that. They’re clearly not as top tier as our God.” 

You may remember from my Sword in the Stone discussion that I mentioned that Rome occupied Albion before Christianity wormed its way in, and you may be wondering, were the Romans this bad? Haha, clearly you underestimate how awful medieval Christians were. No, the Romans just viewed foreign pantheons as extensions of their pantheon. You have a sun god? So do we. It must be the same god with a different name. This is what’s referred to as Interpretatio Romana. So the Celtic Sun God Belenus would be referred to by the Romans as Apollo Belenus. It’s the same god, but the Roman name always came first. Compared to what is known as Interpretatio Christiana, which boils down to ‘you’re worshiping Satan in the form of a false idol. Stop that.’ So, when I say that our lack of written accounts of Welsh mythology is entirely the fault of the Christians, I’m completely sincere in that statement because the Romans didn’t censor Celtic myths or history, only the Christians did.

The Black Cauldron and Mythological Parallels

Prydain

It might sound like a generic fantasy name, but the name Prydain actually comes from the Welsh name for Great Britain, Prydain Fawr. Unfortunately, the term Great Britain dates to 1707. However, Prydain is also the medieval name for the island, as the Welsh never referred to the Island as Albion.

Henwen

Literally meaning “Old White” in Welsh, Henwen is a sow under the care of Coll, a pigkeeper for Dallwyr Dallben. In the Chronicles of Prydain, Coll is a character, but in the Disney film, Taran seems to have absorbed Coll’s role as pigkeeper. However, the fact that he refers to himself as an assistant pigkeeper could still mean that he is ranked below an off-screen Coll. However, the Henwen of Welsh mythology could not predict the future. It was known that Henwen was to birth something terrible, and so she was chased off a cliff into the sea in Cornwall. She survived however and went on to give birth to many unusual things, including a cat, a wolf, an eagle, and a single grain each of wheat, rye, and barley. And three bees. I really wish I was making this up.

Gurgi

Gurgi’s name might take inspiration from Gwrgi Garwlwyd, whose name literally means man-dog rough-grey. He was a warrior in Welsh Arthurian Legend, and was possibly a werewolf. Gwrgi was a monster that killed a man every day, and two on Saturday so he would not kill on Sunday. The Gurgi in the books is far more monstrous looking with horns, but Gurgi in the Disney film retains the dog-like traits of Gwrgi.

The Black Cauldron

Known in Welsh mythology as Pair Dadeni or “the Cauldron of Rebirth”, it is referenced in the second branch of the Mabinogion. Like in the movie, the cauldron has the power to revive the dead, and is destroyed when a living person is thrown into it, in the mythological case, Efnisien pretends to be a corpse and is thrown into the cauldron for revival, causing the cauldron to be destroyed. There are other similar magical cauldrons in Welsh and Irish mythology, including the cauldrons of Arawn and Diwrnach, which would not boil the food of cowards, and Ceriddwen’s Cauldron of Inspiration, which caused those who drank from it to gain infinite wisdom. There is also The Cauldron of the Dagda in Irish mythology. One of the 4 Treasures of the Tuatha de Dannan, the Cauldron of the Dagda was stored in the mythical city of Muirius, and no man would ever leave the cauldron hungry, for it produced infinite food.

The Horned King

In the novels, the Horned King is a minor villain, subjugated to Arawn, God of Death. However, in Welsh mythology, Arawn is not a death god. Rather, Arawn is king of Annwn, the Welsh Otherworld. Aka, the Faerieworld. See, this is another example of Christians mucking up translations and trying to force other religions to reflect Christianity, so Annwn is often treated as the Underworld of Celtic mythology, but considering Pwyll wanders into Annwn completely by accident, I don’t think that’s how it was interpreted in traditional texts. The Horned King may also draw inspiration from the Horned God, Cernunnos. Little is known about Cernunnos due to being a very ancient god, but his role as a horned god of the wilderness has historians guessing that he’s one of the oldest gods or divine archetypes in human history, as ancient horned gods pop up with surprising regularity in older religions: namely Baphomet and Pan. Cernunnos is also sometimes but not always folded in with the figure of the All-Father as a sort of father to all creation in Gallo-Celtic paganism. Cernunnos is often regarded as a god of nature and the wilds, but is also a psychopomp god that guides the dead to the afterlife, and maybe is also a god of death and rebirth as a part of life. Again, this is kind of very uncertain because of just how ancient Cernunnos is, so don’t take this interpretation as law. But despite how uncertain we are about what all this figure represents, he’s a very interesting deity none-the-less, and very likely contributed to the Christian idea of the devil as a horned figure with goat legs. As a seemingly undead creature, the Horned King may draw parallels to a creature known as a Revenant. A creature found in Celtic folklore, a Revenant is a vengeful undead that seeks to torment all life until it has found the person who wronged it while it was alive and exacts its revenge. However, it should be noted that in the books, the Horned King is a living man wearing a horned skull mask, whereas the movie version is very clearly a corpse.

Taran’s Sword

In Welsh mythology, the sword Dyrnwyn belonged to the great king Rhydderch Hael, and when held by a worthy man would glow with fire. In the books, Taran’s sword is indeed referred to as Dyrnwyn. Similarly, alongside the Cauldron of the Dagda, another treasure of the Tuatha de Dannan is the Claiomh Solais or the Sword of Light, housed in the mythical city of Findias. This may also be the mythical origin of Excalibur, though scholars have not made a direct, perfect connection.

Conclusion

With so much of the story pulling from the single source of the Mabinogion, we can boil down the likely setting to around when the stories were written as our general setting. Luckily, we can roughly guestimate to about when the Mabinogion might originate from, and the general look of the movie seems to match with this time setting. So, we’re looking at about 1050-1225, around the time that the stories in the Mabinogion might have started to be told, thus inspiring the events in the film.

Setting: Prydain (Wales/Isle of Britain) Kingdom: Kingdom of Prydain Era: High Middle Ages (1000-1250) Year: 1050-1225 AD Language: Middle Welsh

[edda-blattfe]

You are absolutely amazing!!! Can you do more on how the boys would react to the movies?

Daaaww, thank you, darlin’! *cackcles maliciously* I will gladly do so! 😆

(I’ll just do the house leaders for now. If y’all want me to do any of the other characters send in an ask and I'll be happy to answer.)

Alice in Wonderland

- “What even is this movie?” -Leona, before falling asleep on Mal’s shoulder. He woke up at the end when Alice was getting chased down and had no clue what was going on.

- Almost everyone is confused, except for Riddle and Kalim. Those two are oddly invested in this film.

- For whatever reason, Riddle just does not like Alice from the very beginning. Maybe it’s the “know-it-all” attitude or that she’s completely hopeless in a world that makes perfect sense. Whatever it is, he won’t stop glaring at the animated girl and muttering insults towards her at every opportunity.

- Azul had to stop himself from questioning the movie’s logic. There is no logic, just absolute madness.

- Every time the Queen yells “off with their head” Riddle giggles....it’s getting kinda creepy tbh.

- Kalim is the only one who liked the “it was all a dream” ending. Riddle was disappointed that little blonde brat didn’t get her head lopped off. Meanwhile, everyone else was just glad it was over.

The Little Mermaid

- The movie’s opening sequence actually grabbed everyone’s attention immediately! Even Idia found himself swaying along to the music while Kalim and Azul hummed the tune.

- Vil is surprisingly enthralled with the animation and underwater backgrounds. The artists must have poured so much effort into their craft to create such beautiful scenery, he can’t help but admire it!

- Azul finds Ariel interesting. Her naivety makes her weak, yet she has such a fiery spirit gives her a streangth he can’t help but admire.

- Ariel: I’m 16 years old, I’m not a child!

Kalim: You tell him, girl!

Riddle: Yeah!

Leona: *scoffing* Kids.

- *Fletsum and Jetsum show up on screen*

Leona: Hey, it’s Jade and Floyd!

Azul: *does a trouble take* ...They do look similar, don’t they?

- Azul was the only one who felt the ending should’ve been different. After all, Ursula was only trying to keep her contract! Why should she be punished for that?

Aladdin

- Another great opening. The desert scenery has Kalim jumping in his seat as it reminds him of home, he even tries to sing along to “Arabian Nights” despite not knowing the lyrics. A month from now he’ll be annoying Jamil with the little ear worm.

- Leona wolf whistled the moment Jasmine appeared on screen AND I SHIT YOU NOT, KALIM PUNCHED THAT CAT WITHOUT A SECOND THOUGHT AND IT ACTUALLY HURT A LITTLE!!! HE WASN’T EVEN SMILING IT WAS SO FREAKING WEIRD!!! KID WAS ACTUALLY ANGRY, WTF?!?!?! But then they found out she was 15 in the movie...Vil went ahead and smacked the back of Leona’s head for good measure.

- Iago really grew on Idia. How could the underground sass master not love that salty bird?

- Azul: If you had three wishes-

Riddle: Don’t you dare finish that question! You’ll just use our answers to try and cut a deal in the future.

Azul: How do you know I wasn’t genuinely curious?.......Pft! No, never mind. Not even I can believe that!

- Malleus does not understand why all of the protagonists are getting married when they’re literally children. But whatever.

Snow White and the Seven Dwarves

- Leona fell asleep again during the opening credits. That’s what happens when you open up with soothing music and no animation.

- Snow really doesn’t strike Vil as a significant character, she lacks any sort of spunk and just looks like a child. Yet, she’s the fairest in the land? He swears the mirror must be lying. It has to be of the Queen thought she was the fairest in that outfit!

- Malleus: Isn’t that your throne?

Vil: You’re thinking of the Pomefiore throne, certainly looks like it. It is an heirloom passed down from the Fair Queen herself. The artists truly captured it’s splendor, I’m impressed!

- Azul was impressed by the huntsman’s ruse to fool the Queen, it was quick thinking on his part. Also gave him time to get out of dodge before she found out the truth. Too bad she didn’t respect his convictions, he would’ve made a great ally.

- Kalim: I wish animals would come when I sing.

Idia: I-it’s probably not as fun as you think...imagine the noise they’d make.

- And just like that, Grumpy becomes Riddle’s favorite Disney character after the Queen of Hearts.

- After the hag’s death scene, Vil is visibly shook. Like he just saw his life flash before his eyes and it was ugly as the witch.

- Everyone is confused when the prince just carries Snow off without saying anything. Not a word! Is that really ok? Isn’t she like 14?

The Lion King

- Malleus actually found himself admiring Mufasa. Not only did he strike him as a competent ruler, but also a responsible father. The only thing our fairy king can fault him for is allowing his brother so much freedom. If he had done something, anything, his family and kingdom wouldn’t have had to endure all of that suffering.

- Simba’s cocky attitude kinda got on the Savanaclaw leader’s nerves at first, but the kid slowly grew on him. How many kids could force themselves to permanently leave home, much less run through a desert until they faint from exhaustion? Points for determination. Then he grew up into a totally chill dude with no cares, no responsibilities, or worries? What Leona wouldn’t do for that! Was really disappointed when Simba chose to leave his carefree lifestyle in order to save the kingdom that was already in ruins. He could kinda understand why the kid would choose that, but come on! That boy really had it good and Scar was bound to die at some point, why not wait until then? Leona doesn’t say it, but he thinks Scar would’ve actually liked his nephew if he’d only stop obsessing over the kingship and got to know him a little.

- *Grown up Nala enters scene*

Leona: Well, someone grew into a fine huntress~

Vil: She’s a lion. An actual, quadrupedal lion. No human aspects whatsoever.

Leona: Your point is?

Idia: S-she is...kinda pretty...

The other leaders: .......

Idia: *goes back into his emo corner* never mind....forget I said anything...

- You know that scene where Simba pins Nala down and she totally gave him the bedroom eyes? Yeah, Kalim and Riddle weren’t allowed to see any of that. The parents Vil and Azul immediately covered their eyes. WTF Disney, isn’t this supposed to be a kids movie?!?! It didn’t help that Leona kept jokingly telling Simba to “get some”.

- The hulla scene has inspired Scarabia’s next party. The other leaders are already placing bets on how Jamil will react to the news.

- Scar being slaughtered by his Hyena army is gonna haunt Leona for the rest of his life.

Hercules

- Azul is LIVING for the muses’ musical numbers.

- Idia doesn’t like how “bright” Hercules is. He’s just way too optimistic for our gloomy boy’s taste.

- Riddle: That’s the underworld? It looks like the Ignihyde dormitory!

Idia: Which is exactly why it’s perfect!

- *Megara shows up*

Leona: That girl is bad news.

Riddle: She’s the love interest, she can’t be bad news.

Leona: Kid, I have experience with women. Girls like that always have an ulterior motive.

*a few minutes later, when Hades shows up*

Leona: I should’ve put money on that bet.

- The more famous Hercules gets in the movie, the more Idia low key hates him.

- Kalim actually started crying when Megara died. He cheered up when Hercules saved and delivered her soul, but that was a rough few minutes for the kid.

Sleeping Beauty

- *Maleficent does her thing with the curse*

Kalim: The witch cursed Aurora just cause she didn’t get an invite? WHO DOES THAT?!?!

Malleus: You wouldn’t?

Kalim: ........

the other leaders: *Concerned*

Malleus: Flora wanted to turn her into a flower. At least Maleficent gave her a chance to live!

- Without having to say a single word, the boys unanimously agree that Flora is the absolute worst. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

- Something about Aurora caused Malleus to go perfectly quiet....it was a little unsettling. He watched her scenes with cold, distant eyes. It was almost as if he were watching a ghost.

- Leona almost fell off the sofa upon hearing Mal softly sing along to “Once Upon a Dream.” No one was expecting him of all people to sing something so romantic. It didn’t sound too bad, to be honest.

- If anyone liked the end of the movie they were too scared to say so. Mal’s aura had grown oppressive within the span of the film. He promptly excused himself during the credits and didn’t come out of his room until he next day.

[spaceorphan18]

The Fox and the Hound

When I was a little kid, and it was the height of the Disney Renaissance, I asked him if there was a time when Disney didn’t put out good movies.  He said to me -- The 80s.  Well, we’re here in 80s Disney and, man, is it bleak.  

The Rescuers, while dark, had a dash of style and originality about it.  This film feels like it was lifted from the early days of Disney and yet is a pale comparison in both art and story.  It’s also as bleak, if not more, than The Rescuers without having any of its levity.  To top it all of -- it’s also kind of boring.  

The source material is bleak -- but was more about the reality of nature.  The Fox and the Hound weren’t friends to begin with, and everything was closer to how it would be in real life.  This tries to make tie in the theme of you can be friends with those unlike you, but it doesn’t quite work, especially when Copper and Tod have about one song montage to make us believe their BFF.  As my brother pointed out -- it’s about as much time as the Disney princess get with their princes before it’s decided that it’s true love, lol  

The rest of the movie is kind of spent with one group of dogs/humans chasing around foxes/humans and the endless circle of it is just... bleh.  

Also, a lot like many of the earlier films, there’s a lot of padding.  There’s a whole sequence with the birds chasing after a worm that goes on and on.  The point, eventually, is to show that the worm is worth saving because he turns into a butterfly, but I feel like that’s stretching the theme a bit much.  

Anyway, a part of the reason this film falls flat for me is that the main characters aren’t particularly that interesting.  It, again, reminds me of The Aristocats -- where we’re supposed to like these guys, and yet they have little to no personality.  They even brought in Kurt Russell and Mickey Rooney to do the voices, and unlike the Rescuers, who use their voice talents much better, they just don’t bring anything special to the roles.  

The animation is fine, but lacks the polish, beauty, and/or style of most of the other films before it.  There really isn’t much music, and the one big song sounds like a rough draft of Toy Story’s You’ve Got a Friend In Me.  

One thing I was thinking about during this film, especially towards the end, was why Tod doesn’t have the striking attractiveness that Robin Hood did, despite being a fox, and being somewhat drawn in a similar way.  And the biggest thing I keep coming back to is the voice acting.  I don’t know the dude who voiced Robin Hood, but Mickey Rooney went for a kind of dorkier, boy-ish route that lacks the charm and charisma of Robin Hood.  Meanwhile, Kurt Russell’s Copper is kind of one note.  

It makes me wonder, had the voice acting been stronger, and more memorable, would that have helped? Possibly! Though this was never going to be one of Disney’s strong films.  Animated films can do complex and in-depth in a short amount of time if done right.  This one tried to do a lot, but in the end kinda fell flat. 

Other Thoughts: 

The opening is perhaps the darkest one we’ve had -- there’s no music, just forest sounds against a grey sky.  

The first five minutes of this film is like the climax of Bambi.  In fact, there’s a lot of this movie that reminds me of Bambi. 

We’re out of England, and back in Americana, but I can’t quite tell when.  It’s definitely got a mid-1800s old West feel, but there are cars and photographs, so -- 1890s?? 

There are so many voice actors that are more famously used in other Disney projects -- such as half the cast of Winnie the Pooh and Robin Hood that I find it really distracting.  

The woman who plays the owl, however, is a delight - and she’s easily the best thing in this story.  

The score is a little weird -- most of it is traditional and/or jives with the late-19th century feel, except one chase scene which sounds like it should be in a 60s spy movie. 

While I’m glad that the antagonist is not a woman for once -- it’s annoying how much the word ‘female’ gets thrown around like a slur.  

Little Tod is voiced by Corey Feldman -- idk, I thought that was a fun fact to share with y’all.  

Final Thoughts: There’s a reason this film is one of the ones that often gets forgotten.  There’s not much in it that’s worth remembering for good or for bad.