#this is the tldr for gatsby

[theotherbuckley]

Someone pointed out that Eddie asking out Marisol is like a high schooler getting all giggly over a crush and like… wait that makes so much sense… Eddie just wants what he had with Shannon which was exactly that, a high school romance. Hopefully Eddie will go oh wait I’m trying to recreate my past instead of what I actually want (which is Buck thank you very much).

[mosslingg]

The book of bill and the arg attached to it are so funny actually. The book? no structure. Yes, the storytelling is clear but if it was an actual novel? No one would even look at the it. They literally turned it into a magazine at one point. The Great Gatsby just suddenly appears which is THE ONLY NOVEL PART OF IT AND IT'S NOT EVEN WRITTEN BY THE GUYS THAT MADE THE BOOK. The narrator? He's speaking to you through codes that no neurotypical would even bother to look into. The chaos this book is is impossible to describe through words. Trevor Henderson contributed apparently?? Yknow the siren head guy?? AND there's a website??? You type in mickey mouse in it and it doesn't show anything "for your safety". You can type swear words which definitely had to be approved by Disney. Also matpat is canon now ig. Oh and there's a guy that has not one but TWO situationships happening at the same time. One of the guys he has the situationship with is married btw. The antagonist, who is the second situationship, is in interdimensional therapy. His twink version became canon. Also he got drunk after his situationship dumped him. Literally the funniest thing.

TLDR; alex hirch is a wonderful man and we should protect him at all cost

[ofliterarynature]

TBR TAKEDOWN: Week 10 (Aug 4)

TLDR: I have too many unread books, and I’m asking tumblr to help me downsize. Pick one or none, and comment if you can - a convincing sentence is worth a dozen votes! You’re also welcome to just choose the one that sounds the worst :D Book descriptions below the cut, see my pinned post for more info.

Aurorarama by Jean-Christophe Valtat

A startling, seductive literary novel that entwines suspense, science fiction, adventure, romance and history into an intoxicating new genre.

1908: New Venice--"the pearl of the Arctic"--a place of ice palaces and pneumatic tubes, of beautifully ornate carriage-sleds and elegant victorian garb, of long nights and vistas of ice.

But as the city prepares for spring, it feels more like qaartsiluni, "the time when something is about to explode in the dark." Local "poletics" are wracked by tensions with the Eskimos circling the city, with suffragette riots led by an underground music star, with drug round-ups by the secret police force known as the Gentlemen of the Night. An ominous black airship hovers over the city, and the Gentlemen are hunting for the author of a radical pamphlet calling for revolt.

Their lead suspect is Brentford Orsini, one of the city's most prominent figures. But as the Gentlemen of the Night tighten the net around him, Orsini receives a mysterious message from a long-lost love that compels him to act.

Bread by Charles Norris

"Bread by Charles G. Norris reads like a working class Great Gatsby with a tragic female main character."

Described on the jacket as "the novel of The Woman in Business," and dedicated "To the Working Women of America," Bread is an issue novel about women entering the work force. The heroine juggles home life and a career, finally sacrificing her marriage in order to rise to executive status in a publishing company. Though not thought of today as one of the author's better known titles, it was actually a sensation upon publication, with at least five printings in its first year and 17 printings overall. The first printing was quite small.

The Agony House by Cherie Priest, illustrated by Tara O’Connor

Denise Farber has just moved back to New Orleans with her mom and step-dad. They left in the wake of Hurricane Katrina and have finally returned, wagering the last of their family's money on fixing up an old, rundown house and converting it to a bed and breakfast.

Nothing seems to work around the place, which doesn't seem too weird to Denise. The unexplained noises are a little more out of the ordinary, but again, nothing too unusual. But when floors collapse, deadly objects rain down, and she hears creepy voices, it's clear to Denise that something more sinister lurks hidden here.

Answers may lie in an old comic book Denise finds concealed in the attic: the lost, final project of a famous artist who disappeared in the 1950s. Denise isn't budging from her new home, so she must unravel the mystery-on the pages and off-if she and her family are to survive...

[twistedminutia]

Twst Talk: Yuu is not the MC

Please note: I am an EN player and interact with English-speaking twst fandom, so these observations are based on that. I will only be referencing things from the EN server, since that is the only one I play. Please keep that in mind when reading if this isn’t applicable to JP or other sections of the fandom.

This post comes from me looking at how people in the twst fandom (specifically the EN fandom) refer to Yuu. People will use ‘MC’ to indicate Yuu in text posts or refer to Yuu as the ‘main character’ offhandedly. I have even seen people expressing annoyance that Yuu, as the main character, never seems to have that much of an impact on the plot, merely reacting to things around them. To which I can only say:

Yuu is not the main character.

I think the confusion with people believing Yuu is the main character and labeling them as such may be partially to do with the medium. Twisted Wonderland is, generally, a visual novel, and in visual novels, the player character is usually the main character. This can be for multiple reasons. First off, in most video games the player character is the main character since it’s generally more fun to play as the person the story is centered around. And second, the most common form of visual novel is the dating sim. The player character must be the main character in these games, because the main character is the one being romanced and the point of a dating sim is that the player is getting romanced themselves.

Players come in to Twisted Wonderland with the assumption from other games that the player character, by virtue of merely being the player character, must be the main character. But that’s never borne out in Twisted Wonderland. Yuu is never supposed to be the main character.

Before we continue, I’m going to define what I mean when I say ‘main character.’ The main character is the protagonist the person the story is about. They are the one the story focuses on. The one we learn about and who develops throughout the story, for good or bad. Tell me: does that sound like Yuu in Twisted Wonderland? Yuu is never developed because Yuu is not the main character. The story is not about them.

People often mistake the viewpoint character as the main character because that’s often the case. But even in other works of art, this isn’t true. Take the very famous example of The Great Gatsby. The narrator and the viewpoint character of that story is Nick Carraway. We see everything through his eyes. But the actual main character of the story is not Nick, but the titular Jay Gatsby. Even if Nick is telling the story, the person the story is about is Gatsby.

Similarly, Yuu is the person who observes and sometimes interacts with the story of Twisted Wonderland, but they are not the main character. The story isn’t about them. They’re just the narrator.

Okay, Then Who is the MC?

This is an interesting question to ask: if the MC isn’t Yuu, then who is it?

Well, there are a couple potential answers. First possibility: the overbotters are the main characters, trading off their MC status at the end of each book. Each book is about them, after all, so it seems reasonable that they are the main characters of their own books at least.

The second potential answer is one I am slightly more convinced of: there is no MC, not in a traditional sense. Twisted Wonderland is an ensemble game, where the game alternates the main characters and is about all of them in equal measure. I think you could argue that the overblotters are maybe more main than the rest of the characters, but even in overblot chapters, we get a lot of insight into other characters and the story is still somewhat about them. Not to mention that Twisted Wonderland is not exclusively the main story, but also the events and vignettes that give multiple characters time in the spotlight.

In Conclusion (or TLDR)

Yuu is the viewpoint character, but not the main character, and it is both inaccurate to refer to them as such and to place the expectations of a main character on them. It can be argued that Twisted Wonderland doesn’t have a main character at all, and shares the spotlight with multiple characters, even with all of them.

[randomsufff]

Ok fuck it- I keep seeing the Great Gatsby pop up (thanks Gravity Falls lmao) and recently saw The Great Gatsby on Broadway and I need to spill out my thoughts on this musical

I’ll hold off my grips with it compared to the book till the very end- since I know a lot of argument around this musical is that it’s an adaptation and the adaptors are liable for taking creative liberties. Which- yeah! That’s valid! But I’d argue that in order to adapt something successfully, if you’re gonna make huge (and I mean HUGE) changes to the source material, it’s gotta somewhat follow some reason that makes sense for the characters and/or adds some layer or depth to the story or else you get something like HBOs Velma. But more on that in either an entirely other post or later depending on how long this gets

Read bellow if you want a really fucking long, detailed description of the show and what I think it did right and very, very wrong.

I will say- as a TLDR rn- I thought the show was just…ok. Like- “yeah that show sure was a musical.” kind of ok. The good songs and amazing spectacle of a few of the numbers kinda cancel out the bad pacing and really questionable narrative choices the show made. Also- hearing Eva Noblezada sing live changed my life.

OK- so I’ll start out by saying- I believe we had basically all the original current cast except for Jordan Baker was played by Traci Elaine Lee (who was absolutely phenomenal so I’m not too sad about missing Samantha Pauly)

I really thought the show was ok. Like I don’t hate it vehemently but I don’t love it either. I feel like the only reason it’s so famous is because of its two powerhouse leads (Hot take? Maybe.) Anyways, I don’t know how to go about this so we’ll go list form

1) PACING WAS ATROCIOUS

Again, not even comparing it to the novel- the pacing felt really off and didn’t even make much sense story wise. Like we would rush past certain information and then linger on scenes that didn’t really need to be lingered on? At least to me, I felt like there was other stuff the show should have prioritized showing- CAUSE THATS THE THING WITH THIS SHOW- is that they TELL not SHOW a LOT of information- so it kinda just feels like you’re being tossed plot without experiencing it.

For example, literally as soon as the show starts, Nick and party goers just throw all the information about Gatsbys party and being mysterious at the beginning by telling us and not showing, like he never shown to be cryptically hanging around in the first like 20 minutes of the show (at least that I remember- there was a lot happening in the opening number 😭) . Which sucks because they did this REALLY COOL thing right before the show started where Gatsby was standing there and was immediately gone as soon as a screen passed. LIKE YOU COULDN’T HAVE THAT HAPPEN AGAIN WHEN THEYRE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT HIM???

(Also- recently saw a rehearsal (?) video where Gatsby like actually opened the opening song “Roaring On”, and that would have been great if they kept that! Because looking back, I felt like Gatsby had the least amount of stage time. Which probably I sn’t actually true, but it really felt like it. Like where is the main guy??? His first appearance (after his little disappearing act) is like, 20 minutes into the show. Idk for something that’s called “The Great Gatsby” he sure wasn’t on stage a lot. )

Then a couple scene later, Gatsby reveals to Nick- a man he JUST MET FACE TO FACE- that he’s in deep love with his married cousin and asks him TO HIS FACE that he wants him to set up a meeting with her. And then they move on. Like???

If you watched the show, maybe this’ll make sence to you, maybe this won’t, but it feel like they rushed past everything in the original source material, and only expanded and talked at length the aspects they wrote in.

Also the ending was so. Incredibly. Rushed. Like we don’t even get to see Daisys reaction to killing/hitting Myrtle. As soon as the fight at the Plaza ends everything else happens in like 15 minutes. Are you kidding me. WE DONT GET TO SEE DAISY ACTUALLY HIT MYRTLE. They did the ol’ “Bright lights get shined at the audience as character pretends to get hit” but that’s it! Literally THE REASON why Gatsby is killed and we don’t get to see it or their reactions in the moment. They just… tell us what happened instead of showing it to us. (“Daisy tried to swerve to the next lane but there was a car coming- and then… she just peeled off. She’s packing now…” YOU COULDN’T SHOW THIS TO US???) No idea of how Daisy or Gatsby reacted immediately after, only the next day. No rambled and frightened dialogue of their game plan, no glimpse into Daisys psyche where it’s shown she’s not going to choose Gatsby after all. Nothing.

Oh! And guess how long Gatsbys funeral was? Like a minute long. Just Nick sitting next to a casket in the background while party goers, Jordan and Wolfsheim dismiss Gatsby with a throwaway line. Like bro… that’s your main lead character… shouldn’t you give him, idk , at least more than a minute on stage when he dies? And like yeah I get that that’s the point that he’s forgotten, but I thought it was going to be more prominent than that! Give me Nick standing solemnly next to a casket thats dead center on a completely empty stage while he narrates how no one showed up. How despite the riches and infamy, no one, not even Jays own father (cause literally no one was by the casket on stage but Nick) showed up for his funeral. Instead of weirdly dismissing it like it’s not important?

2) NICK AND JORDENS “RELATIONSHIP”

Nah this actually pisses me off because there’s literally no point in this being so highlighted when it literally goes fucking nowhere.

So their relationship arc goes like this: Jorden says relationships sucks because she wants to be an independent woman in the 20s. Nicks like, I am not looking for a relationship but if we were in one I’d let you do all those things. They flirt, almost kiss, flirt more, do kiss, Nick says “let’s get married /j” Jorden says “yeah let’s get married /srs”, they get ENGAGED, they fight after discussing if they inadvertently caused Myrtle’s death (Jorden intentionally let Myrtle know where they were going that night), break up, and never speak to each other the rest of the show.

HELLO? What the actual fuck was the point of this then? If you wanted to expand Jorden to be the independent, feminist, girlboss *cough lesbian cough* that she is, just let her stay single?? She doesn’t need to be with Nick if you want her to be a part of the main cast.

The main problem I have with this is that the musical put wayyyy too much emphasis on it. And it’s so funny because there’s this big, dramatic, movie-esc pause Nick does after he says “I don’t want to marry you”, and sorry to the people who genuinely gasped, but be fr, are we surprised??? Jordan has been saying from literally her first line that men/marriage sucks, and that she would never do that willingly- then when she get married to a guy she knows for, at most? 1-2 weeks (idk how long the musical take place over), I’m supposed to take that relationship seriously????

In fact, I felt like their relationship often overshadowed Gatsby and Daisys, which shouldn’t happen, because the whole fucking shows about Gatsby.

For example, they steamrolled Gatsby and Daisys reunion with a budding Jordan and Nick plotline, for some reason??? Like they literally show Gatsby and Daisy seeing each other, have them say a few sentences wistfully reminiscing their first meeting, then have them go inside the house while their silhouettes are shown talking while the audience stays with Nick and Jorden OUTSIDE as they joke and almost kiss each other. HUH??? How are you going to literally push your years-long, slow burn yearning MAIN ROMANCE reunion to the side for a budding relationship that came out of nowhere and frankly dosent need to exist? And since we’re not going book accurate, you can actually SHOW how Gatsby and Daisy fall back into each others orbit, how their conversation went. But no.

It got so bad that I honestly can’t tell if one of the themes of this musical is something about marriage because of how much they pushed the “married/ people in a relationship” dynamic. Like what are you trying to tell me? All marriages are doomed??? I don’t even know (mayhaps just me being aroace)

What grips me the most is that they don’t even get any closure. Like they literally never speak to each other after that night Myrtle is killed. (Mostly cause the show ends literally 5 minutes later). The whole show they put these two together, build up their romance, show them having cute and funny moments together… all for what? For nothing?

AND I DID LIKE THEM. They were a cute couple, and their chemistry and jokes together were funny and charming. Their dynamic was interesting too, with Jordan wearing the pants, so to speak, and insisting she maintain her freedom while in marriage/ a relationship which wasn’t heard of in the 20s. But for all that to end because Jorden didn’t want to tell the cops Gatsby and Daisy possible ran her over/they’re partially responsible??? Like they INVESTED. SO. MUCH. in this relationship (to the point where they got ENGAGED???) that it feels so stupid and dumb for it to end like “wow you’re heartless :c I don’t want to marry you anymore :ccc” “well too bad, L, you’re guilty too asshole. Bye.”

AND what really grinds my gears is that if they cut this whole shit out, or at least made it more in the background, it would give more time to flesh out the few other problems I have with this show

3) SONG… EFFICIENCY (?)

Ok last point that’s not as much of a complaint as the others, but it was still something that bothered me. Some of the songs just say nothing/ repeat stuff we already know. Mainly thinking of (and sorry to people who like these songs- I’m not saying they’re bad! They’re just not a lot of info there) “For Her”, “Go”, or “Shady”

Like “For Her”, he’s just saying “I did [list of things involved with his fame/money] for her” for 4 minutes and you don’t even know who “her” is until like, the last line. Like this could have been a perfect opportunity to deep dive into Gastbys upbringing/ past, but the most the musical goes into Gatsby’s past is that he was in the war. Like you don’t get the sense that this man worked his way literally from the ground up for this woman. It’s just so repetitive that, even though it was Jeremy Jordon, I was getting bored halfway through.

AGAIN, this is not slandering Jeremy Jordan (JJ stans please spare me), you could have the most amazing Broadway singer sing with the best technique, but if it’s a dull, repetitive song, PERSONALLY, I’d be bored. They could have just combined this with another song, or as I suggested, add more purpose to the song and maybe put it later in the musical.

Similarly, “Go” (and, AGAIN, love Jeremy and Eva) was super repetitive and could have just been reduced to dialogue.

And “Shady”, though also a really good song, frankly could have been cut out. For some reason the musical really wanted Wolfsheim to be a main antagonist/prominent character and gave him this song- but there’s nothing in it that wasn’t already implied in the first Act and it really has nothing to do with any of the other characters, other then a vague “Jay and Daisy” gotta keep their affair secret (which… yeah I think we know that, but also to compare that to… hiding dead bodies and minding your own business- it’s???? Idk what they were going for)

(Tbh- I conversed with my dad who also mainly wanted to see the show for Jermey Jordan and Eva Noblezada and he said that none of JJ songs were that memorable, which I kinda agree with. He’s a great singer, a very talented man, but the songs he was made to sing in this show were not it. Just nothing of substance or catchiness. Which SUCKS. Because how are you going to get someone like Jeremy Jordan and not have him sing an absolute banger? But weirdly, none of his songs (maybe except “Only Tea” which I really liked) stood out which I’m so disappointed about.)

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Ok that’s all just as it’s own thing (mostly) NOW MY FUCKING PROBLEMS WITH IT COMPARED TO THE BOOK

1.B) NICK AND GATSBY’S FRIENDSHIP

THIS IS THE BIGGEST ONE- Nick and Gatsby friendship is so fucking integral to the original, and it feels like it didn’t even exist in the musical.

Like regardless on whether you ship them or see them as friends- Nick was Jays only fucking friend. He was the ONLY ONE who truly cared about him and went to his funeral when no one else did. In the book, Nick did So. Much. just because he wanted to for Gatsby. Gatsby had to ask Jorden to ask Nick to set up his tea meeting, he attempts to charm and lavish him in trips, and even tries to pay the man to get him to agree. But Nick refuses and is even offended that Gatsby would pay him money for such a thing and immediately accepts the night he finds out. And they actually hung out! Like a lot! At least before Jay asks him for the tea request. And though it could been because he wanted to make it easier for Nick to say yes, they were friendly with each other, and felt like actual pals. Nick genuinely was worried about Gatsby at the end, and even tried to warn him about what he was attempting to do multiple times.

In the musical that bond is just… not there. They rush past meeting each other, they never hang out one on one, and any interaction between them seemed slightly aggressive or politely concerned, like one would be to a stranger, which they technically are!!! The only reason he agrees to Gatsbys plan is basically petty revenge against Tom for punching Myrtle and being an asshole to Daisy/ in general. (Which- I feel like a move thats so out of character for Book!Nick cause he also dislikes Daisy.) Like Nick never learns Gatsbys backstory here (I don’t think he ever tells it, not even to the audience).

The “ you can’t repeat the past” line seemed more aggressively exasperated in delivery then the more soft concern for a close friend I initially read it as. And the “you’re worth more then whole rotten crowd put together” line didn’t really hit as hard because they don’t feel like close friends and nowhere in the show has Nick expresses this pedestal he puts Gatsby on like in the book.

Literally the only times they’re together alone is their initial meeting, and setting up for tea at Nicks. Every other time either Gatsby is with Daisy or Nicks with Jorden. They could have at least put together a cool ass montage of them hanging together, using those moving panels, going through diffrent activities as Jay introduces himself with his Oxford and army line, instead of dumping it all on him on their literal first meeting in his study.

(Also noted that they made it so Gastby owns the property Nick lives on and is renting it out for the man. Idk why they did this- to make it so Nick is indebted to Gatsby??? Also Gatsby vaguely threatens/ says something with a condescending/threatening aura (???) before Nick leaves after Jay ASKS A MAN .5 SECONDS AFTER MEETING HIM FOR THE FIRST TIME FACE TO FACE for the tea set up. Like there was a moment where he held onto Nicks hand as they shake goodbye, held his eye and said a line (I forgor) and kinda stood there staring him down before Nick awkwardly left. LIKE WHAT WAS THAT???? WHO ARE YOU???? WHY??? Literally doing everything to make sure no one can ship them)

2.B) THEY STRAIGHT-IFIED MY BOY.

NICK WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU. It felt like they wanted to take away any whiff of an implication that this man is gay. Like literally no build up to Jay and Nicks friendship, no meaningful scenes between the two, going head first and completely committing to Jordan, AND THE MR MCKEE SCENE BEING LIKE THAT.

AND MR MCKEE, IM SO, SO SORRY WHAT THEY’VE DONE TO YOU. They made him to be some predator who harasses Nick the whole party scene. And this could have been so. easy. to fit into the queer lens if the actor who plays Nick (Noah J Ricketts, fucking what a talented man) acted interested in Mr.McKee but was actively restraining himself and trying not to engage in order to save face in front of Tom and Co. (Please, please, please- making a prayer circle and manifesting that one of the later actors does this down the line) But noooooo, Nick is shown to be mildly uncomfortable while McKee follows him around (in an unfortunately a banger of a song) EVEN THOUGH IN THE BOOK NICK ACTIVELY ENGAGES WITH HIM IN HOMOEROTIC DIALOGUE AND EVEN GOES TO BED WITHBNANJSBSJB

3.B) Jordan’s Purpose

Already touch this before but what the hell was the point of Jordan here. I love the “cool independent woman in the 20s” angle they were going for, but then why the hell would you immediately shackle her to a romantic relationship with Nick when that goes against literally everything she stands for. And I’m not saying she can’t get in relationships, but the speed in which SHE of ALL PEOPLE, was like “Yes I want to get married to you for real” make me…

Sure it was said in the novel that Nick and Jorden were together, but he was always flighty about her; saying he was attracted to her but also hated some of her qualities (dishonesty and heartlessness). It wasn’t the main focus like it was here (I can’t even remember much of their relationship in the book tbh) and they didn’t invest so much in it as they did in the musical that it didn’t feel out of nowhere or too much of a big deal when they broke up. Like it fr felt like the musical held up a “Gasp Now” sign when Nick said he doesn’t want to get married to her cause they wanted that moment to hit so hard for some reason???

AND. There was an ACTUAL PURPOSE to Jordan relationship with Nick in the book (a representation of the wealth he was attracted to then repulsed by [*cough* also contributing the “Nick is Queer” lens *cough*]) they… kinda? did it in the musical? And it would have been boosted by Nicks new naivety in the musical, but it falls short because they never speak again, or really explain Jordan’s value on wealth and herself is why it went wrong other then a “you’re heartless” line that feels out of nowhere. (Idk maybe I was too focused on how pointless that relationship felt that I failed to noticed if Nick had a Big RevelationTM here on Wealth and Jordan)

4.B) Character Differences

Some of them are great, like there’s more dimensions to some, but some character choices, I’m like- that goes against everything they’re supposed to represent in the book.

Like I found it so weird how willing Daisy was to run away with Gatsby in the musical when in the book it was more obvious, at least I read it so, that she was holding back a bit and was never going to run with Gatsby that far. Like wdym Gatsby could have had it all if he just ran with Daisy then, WDYM HE SAID NO BECAUSE OF HIS PRIDE???? HUH? WHERE did this priority of PRIDE come from???? When Daisy’s RIGHT. THERE. Like she was sobbing, begging him to run with her. In what universe would Gatsby turn that down???

Like many people say, this seems like it’s supposed to be a love story between Gatsby and Daisy, but in the book it’s pretty obvious how Daisy isn’t as committed to Gatsby then she is Tom cause of their Old vs New money.

And Myrtle? Why did she suddenly turn back to George? I felt like the only reason why that happened is cause the creators wanted shock and tragedy factor. Like “aw she finally found peace in where she is but oops now she’s dead”

And it would have been good if they actually showed why she thought this beyond the 3 minute song, cause that’s not enough time for someone who only chased after money to do a 180. Like, sure she figured Tom would just move on from her (YES EVERYONE CHEERED, GREAT CHARACTER MOMENT) but George isn’t shown to be that great either in his last moments with her. I mean he locked her in the house? Bathroom? and was pretty violent towards her. Sure we learn earlier that he’s doing a lot for her but we never SEE it. He sings to US the audience about his dream to move them out and live a nice life but not to HER which could have been a cute point of connection but nooooooo.

They also made Nick like, kinda naive. Like he really likes Daisy and Jorden and I guess Gastby (though it’s not shown) compared to his counterpart who know how money corrupts and kinda hates everyone (even Gatsby at points). Any I feel like they could have done well with making him naive to that fact, to really make this a tragedy (like Hadestown esc) but they fell short somehow. I think it’s cause the ending was so rushed. Like there wasn’t enough time to show the consequences of everyone’s actions and how hurt and changed he is. It all flys by in like 7 minutes.

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Ok now we’re done being cynical- here are the good things I liked

1.C) The woman are 3-Dimensional yay/ Nicks also here

Myrtle’s song (Second-Hand Suit) is phenomenal. Great way to introduce more character and backstory to someone who originally had none.

Also, again, loved Jordan’s independence angle (if only they WENT SOMEWHERE WITH IT) and I lowkey loved the “well Tom cheats why can’t you” line and Daisy’s whole attitude as she one ups Tom in the dinner table scene. Also Daisy was already kinda complex in the book, but it really shows how turmoiled she is here and that’s interesting,

And despite how I kinda ragged on it, I really did like Nicks personality throughout the musical. He was sooo humorous in a way he wasn’t in the book. Also, thinking about it, his nativity is an interesting spin on his character that I really would have liked if it was executed properly.

2.C) The songs fucking slap

I can’t lie, most of these songs are bangers. I have half of the songs on loop. Not to mention the actors who sing them are absolutely incredible. I won’t lie, I was mostly interested in this musical cause of Jeremey and Eva; and Eva, holy shit, is an absolute powerhouse to witness live. I was So. Surprised by how effortlessly she sang notes and how clear and crisp they were (“Absolute Rose” was… idk what it was about that song, but I’m obsessed with how she sang that song, [except the “open” part? Idk it grates me for some reason???] even though it’s not my favorite song) Like she truly embodies Daisy Fay and it was incredible to see that in person.

However, the rest of the cast was so incredible too, ESPECIALLY MYRTLE (Chilina Kennedy). Holy Fuck is that woman amazing at singing. Her two songs she sang absolutely ate, like I’m obsessed with her voice. Wolfsheim (Eric Anderson) and George (Paul Whitty) also had amazing voices.

Also NICK??! Holy shit, I’m so sorry you’re not in like any promotional stuff cause you fucking killed it. The way I’m obsessed with how he sings “If only I’d knew then, that I would never be the same” in “Roaring On” and how he sings “The Met” is amazing

3.C) Visuals- kinda

Some of the visuals were ok tbh- kinda boring- but the ones that went big, WENT BIG. Of course “New Money”, “Roaring On” and “The Met” are the ones that stand out the most in my mind. “New Money” and “Roaring On” are exactly what you probably think it is, big dance numbers with sparks and huge lights. But I loved “The Met” cause the furniture slid around and literally moved around Nick while people drifted in and out of the room. It was just great to watch visually.

4.C) THE ENDING NUMBER HOLY SHIT

I. Love. Love. LOVE. How they brought back the opening number, and the theme of party goers going on from party to party to show how unimportant Gatsby was to the world, and how everyone moved on.

Like, Nick stood in the center of the stage, reciting the end of the book, in tears and voice cracking, as the ensemble in the back slowly get revealed and are just having a grand ol time looking for the next party. Just- chills. It was amazing conceptually and they pulled it off so well.

If the musical got nothing else in terms of structure going for it- at least they got the last minute right cause omg, I love when media has opposing moods in the same scene, and they did so well here.

—————————

Overall, yeah. Not horrible but I don’t love it. The lack in plot and nonsense relationships and complete disregard of the book didn’t totally ruin the musical cause I had a good time and liked the songs and such but I would not go back and re watch it.

I think of you know nothing about the book or anything about The Great Gatsby other then there’s a guy named Gatsby and he’s great and you just want a nice sounding show, you’ll probably like this, but people who are burdened by the knowledge of the book will be hung up on a lot of things I mentioned here.

Always, long ass post, congrats to anyone who actually read this real informal review. I haven’t gone into how this is a pretty bad adaptation, but I’ll have to do that in another post (if people want to see that) and another time cause this took my literal hours to type out.

(Tbh I might just do the adaptation essay anyways, cause I’ve written at least 4 papers on adaptation in media [and how Groundhog Day the musicals the best Movie to Musicals adaptation] and I love that shit)

[greenerteacups]

Hi GT, I was reading one of your wonderful responses and you mentioned you don't love what they did to Remus, and I have to say I 100% agree. In my opinion his relationship with tonks is weird (regardless of whether people think he had chemistry with Sirius) like he's at least 10 years older than her and he tries to leave her and it just seems like he goes along with HER infatuation without really caring about her very much. It also puts Tonks back into JKR's frequent dynamic for women, which is "badass who really wants to be with a guy who doesn't seem to appreciate her much" (see Hermione/Ron).

Do you have any further thoughts on that? I always found JKR's writing about women in relationships/who want relationships really weird. You definitely do it better.

JKR has many strengths as a writer, but I don't think anyone would say her romances are one of them. I think a lot of authors either consciously or subconsciously look down on romance as a genre because it's associated with sensuality and frivolousness, but writing and selling the idea that two people should and do want to kiss each other is like, really fucking hard to do, and it requires a certain set of skill checks as an author that not everyone has. Just like writing good horror or good fantasy, good romance has tenets and rules and things you can do to get the audience on board with you, and JKR didn't execute a lot of those things (to my satisfaction, YMMV) in the books. Bad romance is also a high-stakes problem, because it risks flattening out your characters and pitching them into OOC territory if the audience doesn't buy that the dynamic evolution is natural. But again, that's something you don't know if you haven't written romance, or tried to, before.

Mostly, you have to really lean into the vulnerability of the thing. Romance is silly and goofy and embarrassing. It makes you say dumb things and act in dumb ways. It can't be ironic or chilled or demure. At some point, to make a real human connection, someone has to get down, take off their dignity, and bare the rotten core of themselves. When we propose, we kneel on the ground. We get dirty. And all authors have a great terror of embarrassing themselves. They're doing something tremendously vulnerable; of course they want people to think they're cool and intelligent. It's embarrassing to put yourself in the head of a 15-year-old boy with a crush. It's embarrassing to write about a suitor earnestly confessing their love, because — what if this is too much? What if it's corny, what if it breaks the audience's suspension of disbelief? What if my readers are laughing at me? What if I'm the butt of the joke?

Anyway, I think a lot of really great books have terrible romance subplots for that reason. In The Great Gatsby, we never actually see Gatsby and Daisy alone together. We get their story second-hand, from people who can deliver it in a cool, reflective tone of mystery; we don't see them undressed, undone, emptying their hearts to one another. And Nick and Jordan, the romance we actually get to see develop, are easily the weakest plot in the book. Meanwhile, authors like Tolstoy have an incredible gift for writing romance that feels right, and is sensual without verging into purple prose. But Tolstoy is one of the greatest writers of all time. JKR wrote some very good books that a lot of people loved very much, but for her, the romances were accessories to the story. They weren't a focus. I'm certain she cared about Remus and Tonks's relationship, in the same way she cared about Ron and Hermione's relationship. Both take up too much space to explain otherwise.

TLDR: Writing romance is hard because it's really easy to fuck up, even if you care about it. I don't know that JKR put all that much thought into selling us on chemistry and interpersonal dynamics of the couples she threw together; I think she writes for plot, and the couples emerged as a part of that. That means the couples that don't necessarily make sense on paper lose out majorly because the audience doesn't know exactly what they're rooting for, and the couples that do make sense on paper lack a certain... I dunno, va-va-voom.

[moonriselabyrinth]

maybe it’s because I can’t stop thinking about the similarities of the great gatsby and the notebook (regular person falls in love with a rich socialite and they repeatedly get reminded by the other’s family and society that they don’t deserve them so they try their damndest to earn a name for themself), but I just feel like davos would 100% be that person for aeron. like he would do anything for him and to prove to everyone that he is worthy of him. (bonus angst if it follows the plots of these books and he becomes successful only to find out that aeron is already with someone else i’m just thinking about this and i’m in pain)

tldr: davos is the most down bad person in the universe like you look up “helplessly in love” on google and davos’s face just pops up.

Ooo yes I love this. It’s not the same dynamic at all but in my davron fic “I know I’m just a phase” I am exploring the concept of Davos feeling like he’s not good enough for Aeron or that Aeron and his family would see him that way and trying to prove that perception wrong. So personally I’d love seeing a fic with the dynamic you describe fully explored!

(Also so true Davos is down so bad it’s embarrassing)

[yandere-daydreams]

Writer to writer - how do I know if I’m being too descriptive? I don’t want to write purple prose, but I also want my readers to have a clear idea of the scene. I also like the flowery language in books like the Great Gatsby, but I don’t wanna go over the top. Any way you know how to achieve this?

i did actually have to sit on this for a few minutes cuz my descriptions simply come from the bones and i am not the kind of prophet who'll try to interpret the messages i'm sent, but i think it comes down to deciding what's necessary for the plot, what you're trying to communicate to your reader, and what can accomplish that without making it seem like your narrator lost focus and just started fixating on the doorknobs.

like, if you're describing a character and you need to tell your audience that he's attractive, you can talk about the cut/color of his suit, his expression and features, his hair and how it's styled, etc., and that would all make sense for the scene, while setting aside the same number of paragraphs to describe a relatively unimportant character who's never going to appear again is probably going to give your reader the wrong idea and give a lot of significance to a character who,,, just doesn't warrent it, at the end of the day. don't be afraid to spread information out, either - if you're afraid you're loading on a lot of exposition upfront, it can help to blend a few of the less dire details into the action (e.g. 'his shirt was soaked-though and ragged' -> 'she caught his shirt in her fist, the material damp to the touch and torn to shreds'). it's more distribution than anything, just to make sure your reader isn't drowned in details right off the bat.

tldr; keep it necessary and spread it out as you see fit. if it fits the mood, keep it, and if it just adds unnecessary bulk to your word count, don't. unless you want to. idk. it's not like anyone's going to give your detention or something.

[penguicorns-are-cool]

I have this theory that all the really good bits of writing in Great Gatsby came from Zelda's diary

we know Fitzgerald was stealing from his wife's diary for that book, and while I haven't read his other work, there are some parts of that book that are just significantly better for the reason of not being incredibly sexist and actually giving the women characters voices and character traits

Like that scene with Jordan and Nick in the car talking about life. That's my favorite part of the book and it doesn't really fit in with everything else. Most other times a woman speaks in that book it's not in a, this is a woman with a real life and real opinions and an actual character, it's more like, that is a woman reacting to men in that way that woman do. But this scene is just Jordan talking about life with Nick and I love it so much and it's out of place enough that I don't think that was F. Scott

There are also a few other bits where it has a similar mood to that scene and it gets a bit existential or Daisy has a moment of having an actual character and not just being the Helen of Troy of the story for Jay and whats-his-face to fight over. Those parts are just so different from the other ones where women are practically accessories who can be pleased with a puppy or the parts that are literally just pure antisemitism or sexism or Jay Gatsby going on and on about how he's entitled to Daisy's love for whatever reason

Every single part of that book that I liked (other than the parts where I was laughing while writing "gay" in the margins cause Nick has such a crush on Gatsby) have that same existential moody vibe where you just slow down for a second to process what's happening here and that it's happening to an actual person with feelings and a life and what that means and I really think all those parts were Zelda. There's just no way the dude known to be a huge bigot and who practically abandoned his wife in a mental hospital while using her diary entries in his books long after she said it was ok wrote those parts.

TLDR: I'm pretty sure Zelda Fitzgerald is the only reason Great Gatsby is still read today

[astralmarionette]

okay so rmb how the very last thing Nick does for Gatsby is rub out an obscenity that was written on the stairs to his house?

i believe the word was nigger (IM AM BLACK), whichever form doesnt matter. and thats why the word is never specified because Gatsby is called a "son-of-a-bitch" all throughout the book and you cannot convince me that Scott suddenly doesn't want to cuss when if the word were asshole or something of that sort.

tldr: Gatsby is black

[chungledown-bimothy]

I have a question about the Great Gatsby musical and you appear to be the resident expert, so where is Nick? Does the main character of the book not exist in the musical? All the promotional material is just Jeremy Jordan and Eva Noblezada but objectively the book has a third guy, so where is he??

a very good question lol

this got way longer than i think you were asking for, so the tldr is that yes he absolutely is there. his lack of showing up in the promotional material is due to jeremy and eva being a marketing draw far more than it is indicative of his presence in the show.

-

the main reason the promotional material is like that is because, while noah j ricketts, the actor playing nick, is incredible, he's not a Big Name like jeremy and eva. he's not gonna get bitches like me flying across the country.

he is there for the majority of the show, though, and he's excellent!

but it's not his pov like the book. and that's probably what the biggest criticisms of the show boil down to- he's still the protagonist, but he's not the main character. (that's arguably true in the book as well, but not nearly as much.)

which i agree with, to a large extent. while it's not as gatsby and daisy focused as the marketing, the amount of scenes without his point of view does make the social commentary take a back seat at times to the romance. it is a LOT better than it was at paper mill, though, from what i've heard, for what that's worth. (i typed and deleted a whole essay elaborating on why that is lol)

when they do commit to nick, though? i love it, and i will be much more vocally unwell about him when we get the cast album and i can chew on his songs. i'm not saying the songwriters understood the assignment for him better than the book writer, but i'm not not saying it.

at the end of the day, yeah, the show could benefit from more nick, but he is for sure there and wonderful.

[vessels-for-good-intent]

y’all. if you’re going to post about the great gatsby broadway musical, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TAG IT ‘great gatsby broadway’ or some shit. i don’t want to see anything whatsoever about it. i don’t care.

i enjoy the book, i enjoy the movie adaptions (except 2000), by god i’ve even read truman captoe’s screen play! but this? no. it’s bad.

tldr: TAG YOUR SHIT PROPERLY SOME OF US DONT WANNA SEE THAT (example: #the great gatsby broadway)

[princessdave]

fruity four great gatsby au idea

not super fleshed out, but hear me out. steve as gatsby, eddie as nick, nancy as daisy, and robin as jordan. I don’t see nancy being married to a tom character, mostly because I don’t see johnathan really filling that tom role. so they may or may not be together, but it’s not essential.

steve starts out trying to win nancy back through a more benevolent/flashy take on the “king steve” routine. it becomes clear he misses her as his friend not as a romantic partner, but his wires are crossed and he can’t tell the difference at first. nancy also represents safety and consistency and being good enough and not bullshit. so steve has put all this weight into what nancy represents and putting on the right persona in order to earn being good enough, but at the same time nancy is trying to put on the right persona to be perfect like people keep saying she is. she worries about what her role is if she stops being perfect, but also yearns for fulfillment beyond that. enter eddie and robin.

eddie is wildly different than everything steve has practiced being, but he feels so much more real with him. robin is brash, and loud, and nancy thinks she’s beautiful.

robin and steve are Platonic soulmates in every universe. she teaches him to be authentic, accepting of himself and his love for eddie, and how to rebuild a friendship with nancy. he tries to teach her to drive.

I also think nancy’s friendship with eddie should get some exploration. they have more than a love interest in common, but their differences could also build each other up.

tldr; I want to see fan art of the fruity four in the 1920’s

[theobailey]

Theo Andreas Bailey

38 years of age. Greek. Translator & ancient languages consultant. Twin dad. Blue Harbor resident. ♿

thick and unruly hair, chewing mints, coffee and energy drinks beat water any day, unsolicited advices, secretly geek but proudly Greek, unreadable handwriting, crying over the library of Alexandria when drunk―just generally crying when drunk. Cursing medieval monks in the middle of the night, the sound of metal crutches on the floor, self deprecating jokes with a bittersweet layer of truth, poetry with shirts buttoned the wrong way― shirts unbuttoned all the way. Romantic with a capital R.

Wanted Connections & Full Biography

TLDR;

Born in Greece to unknown (and supposedly deceased) parents and raised at an orphanage.

Has cerebral palsy due to prematurity, affecting his legs. Uses mobility aids such as forearm crutches to get around as well as a wheelchair.

Adopted by the incredible academic and adventurous couple Dr. Jasmine and Richard Bailey at age 6, has lived all over the world growing up, especially between Egypt, England and Brazil.

Attended Cambridge University and led a very bohemian, lewd life. Drank a bunch. Made a lot of mistakes. Disappointed his parents and never reached his full potential.

A prodigious polyglot from infancy, has made translation his entire career, as a consultant in ancient languages.

Had a long term girlfriend who he broke up with before moving to Blue Harbor, where his family is currently residing. He's been in BP for about three years now.

Has recently found out that his mother is actually alive and well living as a nun in Greece.

He got his best friend, Dylan Westwick, pregnant and fell in love with her. Now he's a dad to twin babies, and are building a house by the lake. He wants (and should) propose soon.

PERSONALITY

"Mansplain, manipulate & manwhore."Dramatic and tragic, exaggerated and excessive, passionate, caring, sensitive, charming and eloquent, daydreamer and a visionary, procrastinator, chaotic, internally insecure yet externally confident, impulsive and genuine, self-deprecating and self-critical, troubled

INSPO.

Lord Byron . Percy Shelley . Cyrano de Bergerac (Cyrano) . Randall Pearson (This is Us) . Matt Murdock (Daredevil) .Jay Gatsby (The Great Gatsby). Dmitri Karamazov (The Karamazov Brothers)

DETAILS;

Theo Andreas Bailey was born prematurely in Greece and grew up at an orphanage in Athens. Due to his early birth and lack of proper medical care, he has cerebral palsy, affecting mostly his lower limbs and making him dependent on mobility aids, mainly forearm crutches and orthosis, but also a wheelchair.

He was adopted at age six by the Baileys, this insanely academically accomplished couple, who took him to England and would later adopt another child (Nilay). He struggles a little with his adoption --- he thought of himself a little like damaged goods, too old and too much trouble with his medical history, so he felt like he had to prove his worth. He kept putting pressure on himself to do better, always.

He was super skilled and insanely smart from an early age, picking up easily on multiple languages, but it backfired. The pressure built itself to the point where he started having panic attacks and seizures, which he (stupidly) tried to hide, again, not wanting to cause any trouble to his loving family.

Once he was a student in Cambridge, things changed drastically. Instead of chasing achievements, now he would drink too much, party too hard and neglect his studies. He was wasting his potential, everyone knew it --- he knew it. He did get a Masters and a PhD, though, in anthropological linguistics, because that’s what Baileys do.

Contrary to his family, he for a while he barely used his degrees and expertise. He works as an academic translator and lived an essentially empty life, hopping countries, drinking too much and not caring about a lot. He says it’s the ideal life and yet, deep down, he does that out of fear that by having a real job, in real academia, he would be bringing back his old habits and that way triggering his seizures and panic attacks.

He came to Blue Harbor after his sister and parents did. He’d been recently dumped by a long term girlfriend and was a little broken-hearted still. He had a mid-thirties crisis back in London when he looked at his life and saw nothing of substance there.

Recently found out that his birth mom is alive and a nun back in Greece, which shook him up a bit.

Got Dylan Westwick, his best friend, pregnant with twins due in January 2024, Leda and Lysander. Their relationship status is still very confusing, they're still trying to figure it out, but he's definitely proposing soon.

[escape-from-arcadia]

I have ideas for a terribly tragic The Great Gatsby x TOA AU, and I can't ramble about it now, but consider:

Jim as Jay Gatsby

Douxie as Nick Caraway

Claire as Daisy

Steve as Tom

Zoe as Jordan

Myrtle and George I still have to figure out.

If you somehow don't know The Great Gatsby the tldr is:

Nick/Douxie moves to 1920s NYC to work and his next door neighbor is a rich guy named (Jim/Jay) Gatsby.

Gatsby is in love with Nick's cousin Daisy/Claire and has been since WWI, but she's married and already has a kid with Tom/Steve.

Gatsby enlists Nick and Jordan/Zoe to help him get back together with Daisy, and it works!

But Tom is suspicious and things happen, and by the end of the book, Gatsby is dead.

It's a story that involves a conflict between Old and New Money, as well as a theme of your optimistic hopes and dreams of recreating the past being crushed as you pursue them with no regard for the ever-changing future and (already changed) present.

I just want to draw these characters in 1920s clothing, man.

[weknowthend]

Do you think Ayla is going to leave and Cassie will get bumped to Alt? Considering the universal alt performs so I frequently, I can’t see a reason for two.

Personally, no!

It's possible they allow the Universal Alt to cover the sit-down production in Toronto, which is staying in Toronto for quite some time (all I can say on how long is that this current "extension" won't be the last.)

Firstly, had Ayla chosen to leave, it would've been announced by now. From what I heard, I don't think Great Gatsby is going to transfer to Broadway. Also, If she was to leave, I don't think Cassie would replace her, especially since they just made a new Aragon costume for her, plus she would have to learn Parr (another costume, etc).

TLDR: My personal guess is that Wesley or Cassie or both will end up providing coverage for Toronto if necessary and it's good to have all their bases covered in case of an emergency!