#this isn't really anti-itachi but i'm kind of hard on him

[awinterrosesstuff]

Kaguya Ôtsutsuki as a character doesn't bother me much. She's kind of bland, I'm not gonna lie. But I like her design, her techniques are powerful enough, and she has a background. And she even has an objective quite basic but still... it exists. The problem isn't the character itself, but when you put her in the context of Naruto...

There are two things that bother me about her... first, she isn't needed for the ending (except for Boruto obviously) and her arrival makes Madara look so stupid. I promise it's not an anti Madara post. Bear with me. Well, the two things are very much connected, in fact.

I'm going to state the obvious, but Madara is everything the final big boss is supposed to be and have. He's teased since the beginning with the first battle of Sasuke and Naruto in the valley of the end. Madara and Hashirama statues are "watching" the figth, then Kakashi draws the parallel between Madara/Hashirama and our two protagonists. After the time skip, we have Kurama warning Sasuke and mentioning Madara. He clearly hates Madara and it makes you wonder why. He must be very dangerous. Then you have Itachi talking about "Madara" helping him in the massacre of his clan. Obito pretending to be Madara, everyone being quite afraid of him (you have Onoki who knew him). Minato warning Naruto about Tobi/Obito/fake Madara. Well, everyone knew (as watchers/readers) that Tobi wasn't Madara, but everyting there builds for Madara to come. And it's very important in a work. At the very end, you have to see Madara. That's it. He's supposed to be the main antagonist. Not to mention he's the one manipulating Obito and by extension Nagato. Everything started with him and it says everything you need.

Now about the character itself. How can I say it ? Madara is so fucking charismatic and badass. He's powerful, kind of insane, threatening. The war really starts when he appears. (In my personnal opinion, I found the war arc before his arrival quite boring). He almost killed all of the kages, he makes threats and you know it's not for nothing. We're shown how powerful he is.

Then, Madara has a plan, an objective. He knows what he wants and doesn't really care about what the others think of him. And even, I might add that Hagoromo if he was really needed... he could have easily appeared just to help Naruto and Sasuke to fight Madara. I mean they were both on the verge of death because of him. It's not like giving them a last power up there would be weird. That's why I find Kaguya useless.

Madara was enough. He was dangerous enough. He was already a challenge. He was already a wonderful "big boss" if I can say it. He has a very interesting background with powerful and scaring techniques. Naruto and Sasuke had a hard time dealing with him. Kaguya isn't needed simply because Madara exists.

I mean Kaguya really comes from nowhere. She's introduced at the last minute. There's no build on. She doesn't feel like she fits in the story. I believe there were so many other ways to introduce her later if Boruto was really supposed to be done. But hey that's for another say.

So back to Madara who looks stupid. Actually, it's not Kaguya who makes him look stupid, but Zetsu who did everything for his mother.

Why does he look stupid when you learn everything ? Because everything you were told about Madara until then was a lie. Madara being the "master mind" of the war ? Lie. Madara manipulating others ? That's still true, but he was himself manipulated by another character who is very boring in my opinion. Don't you feel annoyed to see all of these characters being manipulated ? You have Nagato (even if he was following his own plan) then Obito and now Madara... it's not even his plan anymore, it was Zetsu's plan. Zetsu was said to be loyal to Madara, then two minutes later, we are told the contrary. Madara was trying to be as powerful as Hagoromo... but well, Kaguya is even more powerfull. Kaguya being more powerful is not a problem either. It just comes with the whole package "everything you were told about Madara is mostly wrong".

You know what proves even more than she wasn't needed in the manga ? That everything happens after they seal her is not even impacted by it. Madara and Hashirama making "peace", the kages leaving in believing in a better future thanks to Naruto and Sasuke, Naruto saying goodbye to Minato, Sasuke revealing his real plan, the fight between Naruto and Sasuke at the valley of end... everything could have happened even if Madara was the final antagonist and "villain".

I'm totally going to do a post about the way I would have introduced Kaguya later (in another manga). Like I said, she could have easily appeared later if Boruto was going to happen.

[crystalklk]

itachi and sasuke rant under the cut bc im Pissed

if you like itachi but not sasuke i’m gonna side-eye you bc danzo is just itachi turned to extreme. and i bet u anything if itachi wasn’t attractive no one would actually like him, and in addition if danzo was even slightly attractive everyone would like him

idk it pisses me off that people will give itachi “let me torture my brother 50 times because i love him” uchiha a pass

but sasuke “i’ve known nothing but anger and revenge due to my brother’s decisions and as a result all of my own decisions were irreversibly affected due to my trauma associated with my brother. and yet i forgive him because i realize not all of that was his fault, but also because i care about him too much and need the cultivated anger (which itachi cultivated along with other fucked up people in sasuke’s life) to be taken out on someone other than him and madara/tobi/obito manipulated me into thinking destroying konoha was a good idea” uchiha is somehow irredeemable

i mean, i know that sasuke is shitty to sakura and other individuals and trauma isn’t a be-all, end-all argument when excusing/explaining behavior, but like, him lashing out bc no one ever really cared about him beyond who he was on the surface makes more sense if you take into account that most people literally only recognize him as “the uchiha survivor” like, buddy

imagine being 7 y/o and already being known only for being the younger brother of a prodigy who murdered ur clan, that’s... gonna fuck with your perception of priorities in your life

like, Jeez, i know itachi isn’t really “at fault” for what happened but acting as if he didn’t literally manipulate his brother into (at first) becoming a pawn for konoha (a corrupted system), and expecting said brother to be okay with that and not react in an unfavorable manner (”hey maybe i’m the only one willing to be compliant in this corrupted system, nah, if sasuke finds out nothing bad will happen” says itachi, a person who is never able to predict how sasuke will react beyond a general gist of sasuke’s motives/end goal), as well as like, bottom line itachi made the decision to kill his clan, even if they would’ve been killed anyway by an assassin or the ensuring civil war, itachi did, in fact, kill them, and doing it “under orders”/“for the good of konoha (and my brother who i will now torture into being motivated to kill me because killing me is a good addition to top off his trauma already caused by me)” doesn’t absolve him from the literal massacre of his family

like, people don’t understand that itachi is abusive to his brother and absolving him of inflicted trauma that he caused to his brother is like... really unnerving bc he did cause the death of his entire clan, tortured his little brother, murdered gaara and A Lot of other jinchuriki, and somehow people don’t think these actions are reprehensible and yet sasuke’s are (during the pain arc he did some... Not Good things but like his kill count through the series is much lower than itachi and he only intended to kill 4 people meanwhile itachi’s kill count is likely in the 100s)???? come on

sasuke, traumatized boy who has only really made bad decisions as a result of his trauma caused by the person who he trusted beyond anyone else in his life when he was betrayed: *does fucked up things almost exclusively as a result of his trauma and tried to kill five (might be more) people (other than his brother) only because they got in the way of killing one person (danzo) who, imho, deserved death, and could only go through with killing... three people and one of them he failed to kill (karin) and likely intended to save if madara hadn’t suggested killing them*

people: he’s awful and irredeemable because he did like 10 mean things when he was 13 because he places no real value on being nice, likely due to his upbringing being somewhat not-positive, itachi (the only consistently positive, kind individual sasuke knew) literally betraying him at a young age, kindness being a weakness according to most ninja, and growing an emotional shell due to aforementioned betrayal.

itachi, traumatized adult who murdered his entire clan as a kid as a result of a fucked up system: *literally forces his brother into a position of killing him because he thought sasuke was the only one who he’d be okay dying to, murdered several jinchuriki, took part in a literal terrorist/mercenary group because... idk, continually tortures his brother beyond what his brother needs to be motivated to kill him, tries to kill people, kills people for no reason, does incredibly messed up shit for no reason other than maybe keeping up his “cover” which like, no, not a good enough reason for murdering people*

people: god, he’s so deep and complicated and i bet he was so nice before he became a literal terrorist, man he murdered people but he had one (1) gay scene with itachi and it was all danzo’s fault. even though itachi’s a literal abuser he did actually care for sasuke and was nice despite showing no real kindness other than him being resurrected one time and outright saying to sasuke that he doesn’t expect to be forgiven for his, objectively speaking, heinous actions towards his brother.

idk this pisses me off i’m sure people aren’t like, “oh we don’t care about survivors” or something, but itachi is an abuser imo so like, forgiving him because he was “ordered” to do these things (he def wasn’t ordered to torture his brother, But Okay) and somehow being a literal terrorist (even if he was sent as a double agent, he did murder several jinchuriki, and never tried to sabotage the plan even though he is a master of subtlety)

like. idk this makes me mad that people are willing to accept any evidence of itachi not being evil and call it a day but sasuke does like, anything morally gray/bad and no justification matters to some people, it’s like, infuriating because sasuke isn’t a nice dude or necessarily a hero/good guy, but like, idk itachi will do Anything for the sake of the village but sasuke’s motives are strictly “for the sake of revenge and justice based on my view” which like, sasuke’s views aren’t unusual it’s basically “hey don’t murder an entire clan, i don’t care if a civil war is possible murdering an entire clan is fucked up”

idk sasuke’s motives make more sense to me bc his motives are based on human emotions and what he believes to be just and his belief of achieving his goal no matter what’s in the way (during the pain arc it’s “no matter what or who is in the way”, but, again, in his point of view all of the people in his way were potentially complacent to the despicable shinobi governing system which has... So Much Corruption) and danzo being the leader of konoha may have convinced him that konoha was irredeemable (which... idk he’s not 100% wrong, konoha Does, in fact, Suck Balls)

but itachi is just “my brother and my village, but mostly my village, i won’t do anything to fix the corruption or help my brother fix it because imo this system isn’t corrupt enough to make me desire trying to change it, so i will continue to fight for this village that destroyed my life and ruin my brother’s life as long as it results in my brother working with the village and believing it’s safe” which is like, not #relatable imo

which, btw, is different from naruto’s “i want the village that hurt me to recognize me and i want to become hokage” which later seemingly becomes “i want to change this village by becoming hokage”

so yk, idk i just could never get behind liking itachi

[maoam]

the person who sent the anti sns ask and said itachi would be a better option for sasuke to be in a relationship with...his BROTHER who abused him and ruined his life...i wouldn't respond to them because of that alone 🤢. and i don't care to defend naruto either even though i like him and sns but i'll just say team taka isn't a better relationship option for sasuke either, he doesn't see them that way at all, it's based on nothing. sasuke should have other bonds other than naruto but kishi just didn't develop team taka at all they are barely even friends and taka teamed up with him for their own personal reasons not because they cared about sasuke's justice. like it's unfair but sasuke having a great relationship with taka is fanon :/ naruto is flawed but him and sasuke just work together perfectly flaws and all. i don't know how else to describe their whole relatinship in a couple of sentences lol. maybe their relationship is hard to understand for people who can't read idk. and sasuke loving naruto is just part of his character, he can't help it. you can't say you understand sasuke if you don't get their relationship because it's basically the whole story and sns is a well developed relationship. you don't have to pair sasuke up with random characters he's not romantically interested in just because you don't like sns

It's so annoying to me how these people assume so much about me based on short vague answer to an anon, like that I'm Konoha stan or that I agree with everything Naruto did or said, or that I'm even talking about the kind of saving they were referring to. Especially when I specifically said in said answer that the ship might not be completely healthy but I do not care.

Sasuke's most important people are unfortunately very tied to Konoha, but let's not pretend Naruto ever did Sasuke the damage Itachi did. Not only he killed everyone Sasuke loved, but also forced him to watch it repeatedly, physically beat him, told him to live a miserable life and his final plan was literally to brainwash Sasuke. So I don't know how Sasuke is going to have a healthy relationship with someone he not only is unable to see in a healthy manner because their relationship was broken at the time Sasuke was 7 and looked up to him, but also because of how Itachi is.

As for Taka, I don't have as negative opinion as you, but the idea they completely understand Sasuke is wrong obviously. And I don't think Naruto and Sasuke can really have a successful relationship with other people.