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suffarustuffaru · 1 year

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why ottojuli would literally be the most toxic julius ship of all time (arc 8)

ok but i was talking about this recently with @deafknell and @mynameisrobiniamadumbass (a lot of the points in this analysis are due to them and also they really fed my brainrot aldsjflsjdflj so big thanks to them HAH) but julius and otto genuinely would be extremely toxic together. as of arc 8, their uglier traits have come to light, and being in each other’s presence has helped reveal that. (this analysis is also kind of building off my Other arc 8 ottojuli-related analysis here)

** im gonna analyze ottojulis relationship in CANON mainly, but i also analyze the possibility of romantic-leaning julisuba and ottosuba—either way, julisuba and ottosuba, platonic or not, are extremely important to both julius and ottos characters and how they interact with each other as well 👍

to start off—their relationships to subaru are quite literally almost the same dynamic in Very Different fonts. theyre subaru’s two closest male friends around his age, they both debuted in arc 3, got off on the wrong foot with him (julius dueling subaru vs otto pushing subaru off the wagon), but went out of their way to save him (again, julius dueling subaru to prevent him fromt being killed by other knights, otto trying to go back for subaru after pushing him off the wagon in arc 3 + otto in arc 4), and as/once they develop a friendship with subaru, its a tsundere + tsundere relationship where both sides end up bickering and teasing each other to show affection. you could even read julisuba and ottosuba as paralleling relationships—otto is the one being teased + getting flustered most of the time by subaru who is the one being teased + getting flustered most of the time by julius. and subaru brings out different sides to otto and julius too—for julius, he’s learning to gradually let go of his repression and not be so “perfect”… for otto, he’s developed a fixation on subaru, and it brings out More of his uglier traits.

subaru is someone that both julius and otto care deeply about even when subarus actions Repeatedly frustrate and even anger them. but because they care about him, they Want to be more gentle with him in their own ways. julius stays honest and tries to break the news to subaru about louis Without compromising on his own beliefs because its the awful truth that subaru needs to know (on top of trying to aid the emilia camp in vollachia in general). otto on the other hand, hides things from subaru and maneuvers events from behind the scenes for subarus sake. otto didnt plan on telling subaru something along the lines of what julius just said about louis needing to be dead, which is why otto gets pissed when julius flat out just tells the truth—subaru still needed to hear this, sooner or later, bc if he really wants to find a way to keep louis alive, he needs to be aware of the reality of the situation. but otto didnt agree with julius saying this regardless, which is likely bc otto feels julius ruined his plans on how he was going to handle the louis situation and/or otto is mad that julius made subaru upset.

so when otto and julius face each other, they’re strangers. they only know the other person as a friend of a friend (subaru), a merchant vs a knight. but unlike julius, who’s a knight through and through and yet is close to and wholeheartedly supports a merchant, otto is a merchant who’s always had a distaste for knightly ideals, and so HE’S the one who emphasizes this distance between himself and julius. this is even more interesting when you remember that julius, again, is a knight loyal to a merchant, while otto is a merchant who is loyal to a knight (subaru), so theres an interesting dichotomy going on there. but otto cant let go of his own beliefs, so he proceeds to place the same expectations that julius continues being boxed into—julius being the finest knight.

its even more important to remember that because julius’s name was erased, julius absolutely is even more of a stranger to otto. otto couldnt accompany subaru and other emilia camp members to the tower, and otto expressed his disapproval of the decision for them to even go to the tower in the first place (because he doesnt want them heading into danger again). on top of that, julius—a complete stranger—was accompanying them into the tower. ricardo entrusted anastasia to julius—a stranger—which is a decision that otto with all his paranoia could never do. and then julius comes back waltzing into vollachia and otto becomes frustrated.

julius apologizes to otto for interrupting in emilia camp affairs regarding louis, and he thinks otto is upset because he stole ottos role in the situation as internal affairs minister. but otto is really upset because he wouldnt have told subaru what julius just told subaru then about louis, despite the fact that subaru needs to learn this information (that louis will be found guilty by the world and Needs to be punished for her crimes). and julius knows that subaru needs to know this, which is why he said it. and its this misunderstanding between otto and julius that lets otto know, for certain, that julius really is like emilia and subaru. and its this realization about julius—that he walks in the light with otto’s friends—makes otto angry and frustrated and bitter enough to try and punch the wall and break his hand again.

this is also because theres a possibility that otto is jealous of julius. this post is a rarepair analysis too HAH so you could Definitely read it as otto being jealous of julius as well. because ottos anger, frustration, and bitterness towards julius mirrors arc 3 subaru’s behavior towards julius. otto and subaru were both pissed at julius for interfering as an “outsider”, and i think that, like subaru in arc 3, otto is upset at the idea of being left behind in the dust by julius in regards to subaru and emilia. julius is someone who can walk in the light with emilia and subaru, which is something otto cant do, and julius is a strong combatant thats especially useful for vollachia, which is yet another thing otto cant do, and julius agrees with otto on killing louis despite also being idealistic like emilia and subaru, which is something otto cant do. julius can have both—be with emilia and subaru while acknowledging that louis needs to die—and it angers otto, who not only needs to be needed but also is questioning his worth here in vollachia. julius throws a wrench in all of ottos issues and worsens it tenfold, Especially when you remember how similar otto can be to subaru. otto and subaru are stubborn, especially when it comes to their goals and beliefs, prone to sacrificing for the people they care about most, prone to keeping secrets, need to be needed, and question their own worth.

and also the way they get flustered when teased is Similar. theres that too. (which is yet another ottosuba vs julisuba parallel.)

but subaru was jealous of julius, so what about otto? well—otto is someone who might be prone to getting jealous. in an otto’s diary episode of breaktime season two, this happens:

(sorry about the timestamps at the bottom wkdndnd im too lazy to grab new screenshots)

so basically whats happening here is that otto hears emilia gush about subaru and tell stories about subaru to frederica, and otto feels envious listening to this. you could interpret that any way you want, but i think that the implication is that in this moment, otto is envious of emilia and subaru being so close to each other. you could also interpret it as otto being envious of emilia because HE wants to be closer with subaru, which i think is also entirely plausible because in this exact same scene, he notes:

the whole point of ALL otto’s diary episodes in breaktime season two is that otto is writing in his diary about all his experiences in arc 4, many of which involve his developing relationship with subaru. and theres no denying that by the time we get to arc 8, otto is now at LEAST a little bit fixated on subaru (ill go more into this soon). ottos now aware of julius and julius’s close relationship with subaru after all theyve gone through in arc 5 and 6, and so now otto is in direct competition with julius. physically, in terms of the difference in their physical power, politically, in terms of julius being part of the anastasia camp, and emotionally—in terms of julius being so close to subaru and being exactly what otto wants. otto wants to be useful. otto wants to have the power to accomplish his goals. he wants to walk alongside emilia and subaru, but he cant while julius easily can.

another important thing is that the key difference between julius and otto is that julius’s “ugly” traits are Barely even bad, while otto’s are far Worse.

and this is further highlighted by the fact that julius’s development in arc 6 mirrors otto’s current arc in arc 8. julius got so stuck in his head that he kept trying to fight his own idol over and over again, hurting himself repeatedly in the process, trying to prove he was useful because he needed to be needed while no one around him really needed him in the way he wanted. the only person he couldve depended on was subaru—until subaru forgot him. of course julius undergoes some development and subarus memory comes back, but julius still cant rely on others. julius Still depended on, needed, and hes there to help in vollachia while, as i said earlier, otto is questioning why hes even here if he has no use. because julius and otto cant depend on others. theyre depended on by many other people (otto playing a key supporting role to his camp), so theyre not allowed to falter.

but otto is faltering, while julius has managed to pick himself back up again even after arc 6. youd think that out of most people, julius is someone who would be able to understand how otto feels—ottos desperation to prove that he has a reason to be here and his desperation to prove his usefulness—but, as ive mentioned earlier, ottos flaws are glaring now. julius’s flaws are different—the gluttonies mention iirc that he was a little mean to his brother at points, which quite frankly isnt that bad especially when you remember how joshua is as a person + julius is Quite Literally an extremely good person otherwise, and then theres the fact that julius wants louis dead, which. yeah thats completely understandable after what louis did to him and his brother. and he most certainly is far from the only one to want louis dead. julius still has good intentions at heart, and he doesnt mean anything regarding louis lightly. in the ex novels, he feels guilty about balleroy (another enemy that julius fought) dying and wishes it didnt have to turn out this way. this is even more poignant when you remember that balleroy happens to be one of the dead that comes back as a zombie in arc 8. its a physical manifestation of julius’s guilt, and knowing julius, he will/likely does feel at least a little guilty about louis given 1. subaru cares about her and 2. she acts exactly like a little kid now.

as for otto—while being a realist is understandable, hes actively withholding information. he kept the tome secret for a year with the intention of restoring it just so HE can read the information in it and then destroy it afterwards so no one else gets to it. he didnt want to tell subaru that louis will likely need to be dead anyway. he doesnt voice his own desire to kill louis. he doesnt reveal his dps ability to read intent. he doesnt reveal that bc of his dp he knows louis is Innocent now. and other than actively withholding information, he outright says / tries to do things like the following quote:

julius doesnt want to hurt anyone. julius wants to save as many as he can and his last resort is hurting people—such as wanting louis dead. but for otto—if its necessary, no matter how morally wrong it is, he’ll do it for subaru and the emilia camp’s sakes. otto is actively malicious AND manipulative.

which is why i think otto is fixated on subaru. otto has a lot of parallels with arc 3 rem—otto was the second person to die for subaru, and the second person to give subaru an important arc-defining speech to uplift him. otto, like rem, is willing to do anything for subaru. except ottos definition of anything doesnt just mean risking his life for subaru. it also means that ottos willing to sacrifice almost anything and anyone else for subaru. otto in arc 8 straight up thinks this:

“his reason for being was to keep saying that the point of compromise subaru had found was unacceptable”—otto places his reason for existence, his reason for being here in vollachia, his purpose, and the reason why hes Needed, on opposing subaru. on doing the dirty work for subaru.

its interesting, then, that both otto and julius’s fights against gluttony in arc 5 mirror each other. julius loses his name because he gives it in battle. otto figures out how erasing works and instructs everyone else not to say his name. julius is injured by gluttony in that his name is gone. ottos legs are injured by gluttony. and when otto fights ley and julius fights roy respectively, ley impersonates rem and roy impersonates joshua.

i mentioned the otto/rem parallels already, but its poignant that joshua was the one roy chose—not only bc its confirmation to us and julius that joshua got eaten, but also in that joshuas relationship to julius is complicated. joshua hates julius. joshua has this massive inferiority complex regarding julius, because julius can accomplish all these things that joshua wants to accomplish but he cant, and yet joshua keeps this hidden by gaslighting himself and everyone around him by playing up the adoring younger brother to an EXTREME. not that joshua doesnt admire his brother, because joshua does, just that its messily tangled with the envy and resentment—but joshua hides all his feelings behind the adoring younger brother act. to otto, ley appeared as rem—another lover to subaru (apart from emilia of course, along with the fact that otto himself Does love subaru) that otto doesnt know at all and yet parallels heavily. to julius, roy appears as joshua—the brother julius has now forgotten, the brother that resents julius and is jealous of julius in a similar way to julius being jealous of reinhard. julius does parallel joshua, in some way, and he doesnt even know.

and if ottos jealous of julius now, it mirrors joshuas jealousy regarding julius. if you put julius and otto together, theres the potential that julius will unknowingly “ruin” otto in the way that he “ruined” joshua, placing even more pressure on julius while otto and joshua stay in the background, in the shadows, and grow bitter of everyone shining in the light. and as for otto, ive mentioned all the things that julius has above otto already, but heres one more—

you could interpret julisuba as a healthier version of ottosuba.

as ive stated earlier, ottosuba and julisuba have Parallels. and of course, im not saying that julisuba are perfect people either, but the thing about ottosuba is that—like otto as a character—it seems innocent at first. with julisuba, its derogatory at first—subaru is the aggressor and the party in the wrong, while julius is forced to publically beat him and humiliate him in order to save his life. but julisuba later grow a very close bond (with…. quite a lot of homoeroticism HAH). meanwhile with ottosuba its a little Less rough. apart from otto pushing subaru off the wagon in arc 3 (which again, ended in otto dying while he was trying to save subaru bc he regretted what he did), ottosuba stays more in the background until otto takes more action in arc 4. and when we get to know ottosubas developing friendship in arc 4, we agree with otto. otto, who tells subaru that theyre friends, who goes out of his way to help subaru, who snaps some sense into subaru and makes a plan with him to tackle the obstacles in arc 4. but the thing is, we knew ottos flaws from the start. he does whatever necessary to accomplish his goals even if its morally wrong (pushing subaru out of the wagon in arc 3). otto gets mad at subaru for being reckless, grows violent with subaru as a result, and helps subaru in any way he can whether subaru wants it or not (arc 4). but in arc 4, ottosuba seems more like a nice friendship. its a breath of fresh air to see someone go out of their way for subaru like this. and im not saying that ottosuba isnt a great relationship, but by the time we get to arc 8, theyre codependent. otto needs to be needed. otto needs subaru to stay alive and out of more trouble, so otto decides to do whatever it takes to do that. otto gets mad at julius for trying to interfere in that, and otto also gets mad at roswaal and proceeds to assume—in his paranoia and anger—that roswaal only wants otto to be less difficult so its easier for roswaal to complete his own scheming. ottos protective of subaru to the point where you could interpret it as obsessive /possessive.

julius, on the other hand, is honest with subaru, as ive said, about what will likely happen with louis. julius is honest. sincere. he refuses to ever betray his loved ones, but he also refuses to lie to them and be their yes man—because its for their own good. otto is not. otto is willing to lie and play dirty even with his own loved ones if he thinks its for their own good. like joshua, otto hides his true feelings on certain things until it bubbles up to the surface—which is why he ends up punching walls out of anger and stewing in his frustration. julius has morals and ideals that he wouldnt want to cross. julius hates the idea of even hurting people. otto has next to zero reservations about this, if not none. once he deems it necessary, if theres something stopping him from doing it, it definitely wont be himself.

and—just a quick mention of ottos possible jealousy again + julisubas homoeroticism (that is, by the way, acknowledged by canon in the form of reid thinking theyre boyfriends), if you want to interpret ottosuba as romantic as well, you could easily interpret part of ottos anger towards julius being the result of him wanting to be the only man around subarus age whos close to subaru. julius is a direct competitor in that aspect too. because otto is genuinely happy for emisuba, especially when theyre both his friends, so while he did get jealous over them (which is canon, according to ottos diary), he doesnt have a problem with them. meanwhile, julius is a complete stranger to otto that got to accompany subaru to the tower—as the one other guy in the party too, by the way—while otto couldnt because he was injured by ley, who was impersonating rem, another one of subarus romantic interests. otto is already mad that subarus chosen vollachia and louis over ottos desire to just choose their self preservation. julius is salt in the wound because to otto, subaru leaving for the tower kinda looks like subaru chose julius over otto—and then julius came to vollachia and reunited with subaru, which is more salt in ottos wounds.

and if you want to make this more messy, ottos admiration and endearment to subaru can easily be paralleled to julius admiring reinhard. subaru and reinhard already parallel in general, but otto and julius were quite literally pining (platonic or otherwise) for subaru and reinhard before those two even recognized otto and julius as friends. make of that what you will.

so additionally—like how julius could “ruin” otto, otto could “ruin” julius. julius can beat otto in a physical fight without breaking a sweat. but unlike subaru, otto has no morals holding him back and hes absolutely capable of figuring out how to beat julius psychologically. otto also has no problem using julius if he really needed to. additionally, if you happened to put otto in a situation where he had julius’s life in his hands and he could get away scot-free with just killing julius—theres a good chance that otto could go ahead with it to remove julius as a threat + cripple anastasia substantially. and, like subaru, otto is capable of really Testing julius’s patience. if you forced them together for long enough with the way their characters are in arc 8, julius very well could snap. julius and otto are both characters whove been dealing with a bunch of shit and are growing tired of it, especially julius. otto may be more volatile in comparison, but julius of course is only human and will crack a bit under the pressure. because otto would place all these standards on him that julius is always cursed to have—ottos already done that in arc 8 by just referring to julius as a knight and therefore his enemy. and thats on top of otto and julius’s relationships to subaru making this Already Complicated.

and if subaru saw two of his closest friends fighting like this, all three of them would be Very Upset about it.

regardless, anastasia camp and emilia camp relations in general are fascinating because at this point, with ottos whole Thing against the ana camp, julius + his friendships to emilia and subaru, and garf and mimi, the two factions are closely connected now. julius and otto though? yeah theyre a powder keg of a rarepair bc i think theyd end up strangling each other wkndjdndjd. and what i mean is that as a rarepair, julius and otto and subaru are in the weirdest most fucked love triangle of all time right now HAH.

also in this scenario—when anastasia finds out about otto messing with julius, otto is not gonna be safe.

#if this is too long to read heres the tldr: as of where otto and julius are as characters in arc 8 rn they could awaken SO MUCH of the worst #in each other fr.#and platonic or previously romantic or not ottojulisuba might just be in the worlds worst love triangle 👍👍👍👍#my other ottojulisuba post was foreshadowing to this gigantic post ig 😭😭😭 listen i was just laying in bed with my heating pad and then i got #possessed and wrote this. crying.#pls. my ottojuli agenda is so real rn pls believe me. otto is cursed to have the most derogatory relationships with every knight ever.#subaru. reinhard. julius.#rezero #otto suwen #julius juukulius #ottojuli would look st each other and be like ‘subaru im so much better for you than him hes literally insane :)’ and subarus like um wtf is #going on with you two.#im so predictable with my posts these days. cries.#arc 8 spoilers

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