#torchwood meta

[meta-squash]

I think of all the popular Torchwood fanon characterisation tropes, one of the ones that frustrates me the most is the general characterisation that Owen's bedside manner is terrible.

Because from what we see in canon, Owen's bedside manner is actually fantastic. He's rude and a prick and spiky in all other aspects of his job at Torchwood. But all the times we see him in "doctor mode" in canon, he's completely concentrated on his responsibility and tasks as a doctor. He gauges his patients' stress level and personality and adjusts to make them most comfortable. For example, when he's extracting the bullets from Gwen's side in Countrycide, he banters/flirts with her, because he knows that's how to keep her mind off the pain. When he's running the mind probe in Sleeper or examining Tommy in TTLM, he's more clinical, but still 100% focused on the patient. He and Henry have (in the full uncut scene) a long very human philosophical conversation where Owen is so attentive to both the monitoring machines and what the old man is saying, and then he's completely devastated when he can't save Henry with CPR because of his undead state and having no breath. In Meat, he's so sensitive to the pain the creature is in; in Dead Man Walking, he's casual with Jamie because Jamie is casual first, but it's obvious that he really does care.

I think that's part of why Owen is so interesting. He's an asshole so much of the time, but he's also someone who really really cares about the wellbeing of others. Before Katie's death, he was a respected doctor, and good at his job, and I don't think that part of him changed, really. I think when he's just himself, Owen Harper, he's angry and anxious and vulnerable and grief-stricken and it makes him an asshole as he tries to shield himself. But when he's Doctor Owen Harper, he's focused and caring and very very good at his job.

Emotionally and psychologically, he's a goddamn mess, but I think when he's in the role of healer, of helper, of caregiver, he's in it 100%.

[dragons-are-epic]

Thinking about Torchwood and what I find fascinating is just how they set up Ianto before Cyberwoman. The main point of Cyberwoman (other than, well, a woman in a cyber-bikini fighting a pterodactyl) is that Ianto is seriously ignored by his team to the point where, for weeks, even months, they don't notice him hiding his cyber-converted girlfriend in the basement. Nobody sees him as any more than just an assistant - he's out of sight, he's out of mind. And then part of his arc is slowly becoming a full member of the team, from being a 'main character' in Countrycide to getting into an employee-with-benefits relationship with Jack to eventually being a crucial member of the team in Children of Earth and meaning so much to Jack that his death causes Jack to kill his own grandson to avenge him and save the world, then still flee Earth anyways because of the trauma he's experienced there.

And S1 Torchwood has issues, yes. But the way they set him up was genius.

I used Chakoteya's transcripts (they're really good) and ctrl + F for these statistics. And so:

In the first three episodes of Torchwood's first series, Ianto has fourteen (14) lines, the majority being just one or two sentences. In comparison, Owen had a hundred and forty-seven (147) lines, Tosh had ninety-two (92) lines, Gwen had three hundred and sixty-two (362) lines, and Jack had two hundred and forty-four (244). Suzie, despite only appearing in one episode of the three, has twenty-six (26) lines, while Rhys, though he wasn't a part of the main team, had forty-six (46) lines. Even if we exclude Jack and Gwen and just count deutertagonist members of Torchwood, Ianto's lines account for only 5.28% of spoken lines. Include Jack and Gwen and this falls to just a measly 1.6% (rounded to one decimal point) of spoken lines.

Now, Ianto's name is spoken by other characters just four (4) times in the first three episodes, and two of those times were Jack introducing him to Gwen. The other two are Jack getting him to do something - ordering him be on stand by for Owen if he needed backup in Everything Changes, and to indicate to Ianto that he should put the ghost device in storage in Ghost Machine. In contrast, Gwen's name is said twenty-six (26) times, Owen's is said thirty (30) times, Tosh's is said eleven (11) times, Jack's (excluding the 'Captain Harkness' inquiries in Everything Changes) is said twenty (20) times, Suzie's is said four (4) times, and Rhys' is said five (5) times. Given that I've also included referring to someone (i.e. "Rhys, my boyfriend, is a transport manager.") it also shows just how little the team talk about him.

He also simply does not have a lot to do. He's often in the background, but he never has a large impact on the plot. In fact, he never has a single scene outside of the Hub or the Tourist Information Centre for the first three episodes.

Now, normally, this would be a sign that he's quite severely underutilised. But in this case, it's genius. It shows us just how ignored he is among the team. They like him, obviously, but he's almost an outsider to the team. Hell, an in-universe Torchwood IM transcript has Jack, Owen, Suzie, and Tosh going out together for bowling and leaving Ianto behind, and the only reason he's told about it (via an Instant Message with Suzie) is because Suzie tries to switch places with him. She even says, when he mentions he didn't know about the trip, that there's 'No reason why [he] should' know. She does later tell him that he should socialise with the group, since it feels like they hardly know him, but it's revealed a message after that that it's a ploy to get more time in the Hub with the Resurrection Glove.

We can also see a similar issue with Suzie in the first episode. Obviously, if you're a member of Torchwood, you're going to have some amount of trauma from the job, so the occasional struggle with mental health isn't to be unexpected. But for Suzie, the second-in-command of the team, to kill three people and for it to go completely unnoticed among her friends - plus her implementation of the plan to bring herself back to life if she died, and the fact that she'd been seriously struggling to cope with her time in Torchwood for at least two years by the time she started killing people to test the glove - shows that there is a serious problem in Torchwood with ignored members of the team going rogue or doing very dangerous things because nobody pays them enough attention to notice.

[dandelionjack]

sleeper is so fucking heartbreaking. not even the sex jokes balance it out. the ‘murderous alien desperately wants to be human/believes they’re a human until they discover that they’re not and haven’t been for a long time’ trope has been done like 7 times in doctor who but it gets me EVERY TIME!!!

the scientist from victory of the daleks. dalek oswin. cyber-bill. auton rory. sleeper beth… and, in a way, john smith, ruth, and professor yana. they just want to be human. they just want to be able to love. they just want to help… tragedy in its purest form. the universe had other plans

[ghost-in-marble]

As powerful as it is to know that Jack was willing to let the world go to the 456 if only Ianto would be spared, as a bubble moment in and of itself, it���s so much more powerful knowing Jack’s characterization. Because he is always making hard calls and making sacrifices for the good of the world, but Ianto is where he draws the line.

Jack let Jasmine go with the fairies for the good of the world. This is made more palatable because she wanted to go, but it’s still a sacrifice that makes Jasmine’s mother lash out at him and causes Gwen, Tosh, and Owen to give him the cold shoulder. I think it’s debatable whether or not he would have let the fairies have her even if she hadn’t wanted to go - maybe the issue would have dragged on a bit longer, but barring any other solutions presenting themselves (and the episode makes it clear this is unlikely), I think he would have given her up.

He sacrificed the original 456 victims as well. He knew that he was handing a bunch of scared little kids to an alien, and he didn’t know what was going to happen to them; they could have been dinner for all he knew. This was also not his call to make, but he went along with it because it was made clear that it was 12 kids or the world. He follows orders and doesn’t even try to find another solution.

He sacrifices Steven, his own grandson, to stop the 456, because it’s down to the wire and this is the only solution available. They don’t have time to come up with anything else. And what else is he going to do? Go hunt down a less conveniently available child and devastate someone else’s family just to keep his own intact? Most people would have; we see all the politicians specifically discuss that none of their families will lose children to the 456.

Yet Jack is willing to walk away from the path he’s set himself on of protecting the world, and would let terrible, horrific things happen in the world and to other people, if only it would save Ianto’s life. And knowing that in the context of Jack’s previously established characterization just makes it that much more devastating and really speaks to how much he loves and needs Ianto, and also to the effect the loss of Ianto has on him, despite their relationship never really being discussed in the text very much or taking centre stage at all.

[tinkerbitch69]

Anyone else think there’s a connection between the fairies in the torchwood episode ‘small worlds’ and the goblins in the church on ruby road?

So first off, the obvious folklore connection between goblins and fairies irl makes it seem likely that they would be connected in the world of the shows as all the myths that the fairies are spawning are connected with the myths that the goblins are also spawning presumably.

Then there’s the fact that both of them are depicted as creatures beyond the understanding of modern science and even advanced time lord science as the Doctor can’t fully explain the goblins either. They are both capable of time travel and their main goals are the abduction of children, though for different purposes (presumably, I mean it was never conclusively proved exactly what happened to jasmine, she could have been eaten.)

It would also explain why the ship and the goblins just kinda…disappear at the end of the episode, the fairies are clearly capable of something similar and it makes sense with the whole ‘not quite real, a mixture of myth, dream and reality, swirling around in time’ thing. Does this make sense to anyone else or am I grasping at straws?

[candlelightreader]

But didn't Rose also lead Jack to a horrible never ending death, while Jack inspired Ianto to live again? They are perhaps not parallel at their start but they do have intersecting realities.

This parallel drives me insane. Because it is in no way parallel.

Jack, the liar, the rogue, complimenting the woman who tore his walls down. On his way to die he takes a moment to soothe something she had been chafing against.

Ianto, ever the sensitive romantic, complimenting the man he intends to manipulate. Even if it means going against his morals, to meet his own ends he will make this man want him.

Both meetings changed their lives forever. Rose inspired Jack to live. Jack led Ianto to his death.

The two are not parallel.

[torchwood-99]

Jack's "Favouritism"

The fandom conception that Gwen receives preferential treatment from Jack as the result of some sort of unjust favouritism is one that does not hold up under scrutiny.

The first, and most evident flaw, in that argument is that Jack actually lets his team get away with all sorts of shit. Even Ianto hiding Lisa in the basement, where Jack talks a good game, doesn't lose Ianto his job.

However, more crucially in my mind, this idea does Gwen an injustice, because it hinges on the idea that Gwen gets what she wants (like Rhys keeping his memories) because of some unfair bias on Jack's part, and not because of Gwen's actions.

Gwen fights for Rhys. Gwen makes threats and demands, what she wants, she goes after. If Gwen gets "favours" from Jack that others do not, it is because Gwen asks for these favours, demands these favours, would mud wrestle Jack for these favours.

It is not Jack's favouritism that sees Gwen achieve her ends, it is Gwen's own force of will, which Jack, despite all his bravado, can't help but bend to.

[haruka89]

The really interesting thing about that is, we don't actually know that this is true. We only know what characters that returned from the dead have told us and with all the canonical ways to fuck with memory and perception, we can't know that any of them are reliable sources.

They could just never have reached the actual afterlife, it might be impossible to return with memories of the afterlife, it might be impossible for the human brain to process those memories, the gloves/knife could influence those they're used one (they're certainly no harmless, neutral trinkets), etc etc etc.

the most terrifying take on death I've ever seen in fiction was definitely Torchwood. Instead of "there's something after death" or "there's nothing after death" they went with Nope, there is something after death, but it's nothing.

you don't just stop, you don't get paradise or torture

it's just you and the nothing for eternity. and everyone else who's died is going through it too. but you're alone. you're all completely alone. forever.

[meta-squash]

I think two of the most important things about Jack Harkness, two things that inform almost everything he does and the choices he makes, are this: that he is a soldier NOT a leader, and that his entire life since childhood has been awash in survivor's guilt (and his whole existence after becoming immortal is an even more extreme version of survivor's guilt).

Jack is not a natural leader. He can think on the fly and he's good at getting people to listen to him, but he's not good at control, or at being objective. He's a natural second in command, he's a soldier. He was brought up to do what other people told him to, and to improvise if he had to (Time Agency, etc). But I really don't think he wants to be the leader of Torchwood. Unfortunately, everything about him means that he has to be. He knows from experience that others having control over him is dangerous, others knowing about his immortality while he's a subordinate to them is dangerous, and he also knows that his own immortality gives him an advantage as a leader. But I don't think he's good at leading. He tries to be. But he's fumbling along, in a time period he's not native to and a planet he's not native to and an unfathomable lifespan, and as charming as he is I think he's often not good with people. He's detached where he should be personal and emotional where he should be detached (or at least more level-headed). He's often too extreme or not harsh enough when it comes to things like discipline or dealing with the problems/traumas/mistakes of his employees or even civilians. He can't handle his employees seeing him uncertain/vulnerable and it makes for huge problems over and over again.

But all of this does make sense because I think in the back of Jack's mind there's always this wheel spinning, these gears turning and turning and calculating the impact and trauma each of his actions or decisions or the events around him are going to have on his own emotions for far longer than normal humans tend to consider. Because the catalyst for any part of the life we see him leading is survivor's guilt. He lost his father and his brother on the same day, joined the military and lost his best friend, joined the Time Agency and lost his memories (and maybe thinks he did something terrible). Then he died, and when Rose brought him back, he was all alone on the satellite with nothing but the corpses of the people who had fought beside him and zero explanation as to why he survived, and he had lost Rose and the Doctor besides. And then all his life on earth since, he has lost coworkers and lovers and civilians he tried and failed to save and probably also aliens he tried and failed to save. And I think by the time he becomes reluctant leader of Torchwood, every action is, whether conscious or subconscious, taken with the intent of minimizing that kind of trauma and the impact of loss.

Except that I think that the survivor's guilt has another layer to it, which is that feeling of needing to sacrifice or absolve himself in some way. No one else is willing to make the difficult decisions, no one else will move forward with the painful and unpleasant actions, even if there's no other way, even though they will someday perish and no longer see the ripples of their actions. But Jack - who cannot die, who must live with the guilt or the pain or the trauma of those actions and decisions for the rest of his very very very long life - is the one who realizes that he must take on those painful responsibilities and must do certain things even though they're terrible, because it ends up being the sacrifice of one over the whole world. And every single time, he's guilty about it, and that makes him want even more to sacrifice his own hurt for the grief and loss of others.

So it's this strange cycle of wanting to protect himself from hurt and from loss and from the survivor's guilt, but being driven by guilt towards painful and/or self-sacrificing actions. Which then makes him fear being seen as vulnerable or uncertain, and he struggles to do things on a smaller scale or in a more level-headed way, because he's not supposed to be leading like this, it's not something that comes naturally, and if he makes emotional connections by being a leader, he'll end up trapped in survivor's guilt yet again each time one of his employees or friends or lovers dies.

It's just a terrible cycle and he's trapped in it for the rest of his existence. Although if he really is the Face Of Boe, then I imagine at some point he eventually finds peace with it all or something, but I think so long as he has a human-form he's stuck with this cycle of leadership and loss and sacrifice and mistakes.

I think it's really important that Jack is not good at his job as a leader. He makes a ton of mistakes, he fucks up so much and his employees or even civilians end up collateral damage, whether physically or just emotionally. He wants to be a good leader, I think, and he's trying, but he's fallible, and he's a stranger in literally every sense, and I think a really big part of his character is that he constantly is forced to live in this bizarre dichotomy where he has to be both very distant and cold and detached, and also very emotional and intense and personal. And any other person would collapse under the stress of repeating that over and over and over again for decades, but he has to figure out how to navigate this weight as an infinite existence that can't ever collapse or let it burn him up and kill him.

[thesilversun]

Originally posted to Livejournal in June 2007 (between series 1 and 2 of Torchwood)

So what do we actually know about out Owen?

Not that much really, but then we don't know that much about any of the Torchwood characters.

We know that Owen was orginally from the London area, that he trained as a Doctor, at some point moved to Cardiff and was eventually was employed by Torchwood.

So this will be my take on Owen's background for the purpose of fic and what will probably be my own fanon for him until actual canon (if it ever bothers) tells me otherwise.

I think that Owen was from a financially poor family background, probably growing up in a fairly run down or rough area, quite possibly a council estate.

Familywise the guy seems (to me at least) to have major issues. The main one that occurs to me is issues with his mother, based on his attitude to women and relationships in general.

Owen relationships towards men (and I don't mean in a slashy kind of way) seems to based on competition and desire for recognition. Although I would not neccessarily say he's looking for a father figure, he is looking for somebody to look up to, a role model, somebody he can aspire to be like. The problem with that is that nobody is perfect and ultimately whoever he chooses will eventually do something that disappoints him and loses a little more of his trust in people.

Owen's attitude towards love/affection does seem to be somewhat screwed up and very much revolving around the idea that if you love somebody all they will do is end up hurting you.

I imagine that he was probably the sort to get into a lot of trouble at school, fights and such.

I think that Owen has got where he has purely by the fact that he will never quit, not while he thinks there is a remote chance he can succeed. If he sees a way of improving his lot in life he'll take it, no tricky moral question asked, he seems to thinks the world owes him big time. Although by the end of series one that attitude seem to be changing.

Owen is someone who very much subscribes to the idea of "if I have to lie, cheat or steal I will never go hungry again" that quote may not be exactly right, but I think Owen is somebody who has fought hard to get where he is, and he will do almost anything not to lose it.

I don't think that there was any majorly traumatic type stuff ( that is a staple of so many fan fics) in Owen's childhood, just the ordinary everyday misfortunes that happen to a lot of people.

Whether I will use many/any of these ideas in the fic i'm not sure, but it gives me a reference point to how he might react in certain circumstances.

One thing I want to point out before finishing this post is that I do not have a down on broken homes, single parent families or people who live in council housing - for one thing it would be pretty hypocritical of me, being as that was my own family background.

[dandelionjack]

toxic doomed gothic doubles yuri… slowly killing your replacement (in career and romance) because you put her on a pedestal you envy her empathy you envy your boss’ immortality you envy your coworkers’ principles and cohesion as a team you single out the one person who should despise you the one you originally died in place of and slowly drain her life force like a vampire because god, you’re so afraid of the dark, of walking alone into the cold cold night. you cling to a mockery of a life you yourself relinquished, locked in a pitiful half-undead existence. your father did this to you your colleagues did this to you your insatiable curiosity did this to you. you deserve more because you fought for it

if your boss gets to live forever at the expense of others, why don’t you? what makes him so much better than you, what makes him so special? you were always the second in command. you are owed better.

[khruschevshoe]

It's so funny to me that Chris Chibnall wrote both Cyberwoman and the Timeless Children because it shows that at one point he DID understand the horror of the Cybermen- that they were formerly people, that they are what's left of a person that is no longer there, that they are a corpse puppeted by a machine, that there is a human component at the center and the horror comes from seeing your former loved one scooped out and your hope forever being cursed to a futile one...to nameless extra Time Lords being made into basically robots except they can regenerate this time. Like, what the hell happened? Did he just spend so long thinking about the Timeless Children plot twist that he just fundamentally misunderstood why the Cybermen are terrifying or how they can be used to add to the tragedy of the plot?

Tell me what fundamentally changes if you make the Cybermen in Haunting of Villa Diodati/Ascension/Timeless Children basic robotic killing machines. Hell, what changes if you make them Daleks? Not once did they seek to convert the Doctor/her allies. If anything, their suits were just used as disguises.

Imagine if during the disguise part of the story the suits had come alive and started converting the team or hell, outright converted one of them. Imagine if they had to deal with the horror of that. Imagine if THAT is what caused Ryan/Graham to realize they didn't want to travel with the Doctor anymore. Hell, you could save them at the last moment if you want and leave them shaken up, just have them experience SOME true horror/fear. If Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel could do that with Jackie Tyler and Cyberwoman could do that with Lisa Hallett in a bone-chiling manner, you could do that with your team. I get if you were trying not to turn your third black companion in a row into a Cyberman, but in that case either sacrifice Graham or Yaz or don't do them at all if you're not going to use them for their express purpose/mechanic within the story.

[torchwood-99]

Jack, An Unnatural Leader

Jack isn't a natural leader, and doesn't like being the leader.

Jack is introduced to the show as a sidekick, and that's how he likes it. One of the reasons why Jack is so devoted to the Doctor is that the Doctor is older than him, wiser than him, more experienced than him.

As an immortal being, Jack is often in the unenviable position of being the most experienced person in the room, making him the most logical choice for leader.

But it's not a role he thrives in, it's not a role he would, at the end of the day, choose for himself. He ends up in charge of Torchwood not because he's the right man for the job, but because he's the last man left, and he's only the last man left because he's the only character that the guy who killed the whole team couldn't kill.

Now, Jack can take charge, especially when in the thick of it. When he's on the space station you see how he commands the room, he's got charisma, he's got battle experience, but he's still under the direction of the Doctor.

In Season 1, the team eventually falls apart under his command. End of Day, the whole team fractures and splinters under his leadership. He's excellent at taking charge in a crisis, in the field of battle, but over a long term period, he flounders.

When he returns after TYTNW, the team has formed a much more supportive, much more cohesive unit. A unit he is a welcome addition to, and they're better for having his experience, his skill, but as a group of people who must depend on each other, who must trust and support each other, they have done better without him.

End of Days, the team's lack of trust in Jack, and Jack's sensitivity towards that lack of trust, is the ultimate downfall. The team don't know who Jack is, they don't know his past, so they can't trust him, so when they get visions of their loved ones making all sorts of promises, his voice, his authority, the trust they have in him, isn't enough to counter the temptations and the warnings those visions give.

Jack keeps his past a secret because he is ashamed of it, and that shame makes him question his own leadership, which is why challenging his secrecy is such a red button for him.

And Jack's past does come back to haunt him, and kill his loved ones. Every time a member of his team (post Suzie) dies, their deaths are wrapped up in Jack's past catching up with him. Gray kills Owen and Suzie, Ianto is killed by the same aliens Jack facilitated trafficking orphans to, and it's Jack's immortality that was used to create the Blessing, which resulted in Esther's death.

When Rhys and Anwen are kidnapped and Gwen demands Jack think on his past and figure out who he's pissed off, she's speaking from experience there, because every person she's loved and lost, she's lost in some ways because of an event in Jack's past.

Whereas Jack was an innocent in Gray's kidnapping, his silence on his brother, his refusal to inform the team who Gray is, to face up to his past with Gray, even after John Hart tells him in KKBB that he's found him, leaves the team sitting ducks to Gray's revenge plot. Maybe being in the know, maybe having a head's up that Jack's missing brother might be back on the scene would have ultimately made no difference, maybe it would have given them the edge they needed to survive, but the odds would have been vastly more in their favour than their not knowing.

In trading children to the 456, Jack was culpable, and there arguably was a cruel karmic force at work that saw the 456 return and take from Jack two of the people he would miss the most, after he gave them the children no one else would miss.

Ironically, Ianto is lost when Jack gives them a speech very similar to the one the Doctor gives in Zero Hour, trying to use his track record and a show of bravado to scare them off, and the result is lots of people die. Jack tries to save the day doing what he believes the Doctor would do, and the result is death.

The Doctor's own moral complexity aside, Jack sees the Doctor as the ultimate force for good, the greatest moral force in the universe, and that's why, for all his skill, charisma and knowledge, Jack wishes to be the Doctor's right hand man, his general, taking charge but taking charge under the Doctor's direction.

When the Doctor isn't around, Jack finds someone else to assign the role of moral force to. Gwen. He brings Gwen on board to "remind them what it is to be human". Gwen has a simple, uncomplicated past, and she comes into the team with a firm sense of right and wrong, one that has yet to be challenged, yet goes on to be so.

Gwen finds herself questioning her own morality and struggling with her sense of right and wrong big time as the season goes on, yet when she takes charge post Jack's disappearance, we see she not only manages to hold the team together, but make them stronger as a force.

Come COE, Gwen's the one to come up with the shoplifting plan, and most crucially, she's the one to make a connection with Lois Habiba, she forges a connection with Lois, makes the call to trust Lois, and wins her trust to the extent that Lois is willing to risk everything to help the team. Help without which Torchwood, and the world, would have been screwed.

Miracle Day comes, and Jack and Rex are about to make the ultimate sacrifice, only for Esther to get shot, and then Jack falters, and doesn't know what to do, whether or not to go ahead with the plan or abort and try to save Esther.

It's Gwen who says go ahead, it's Gwen who says there's going to be a cost, but it has to be done, it's Gwen who says the things Rex needs to hear to move forward with the plan.

Gwen is a natural leader in a way that Jack is not, yet Gwen's story does not lack in moral failures and challenges. What is it that has Gwen manage to trust her moral judgement, to continue to make connections based on trust, when Jack struggles?

Aside from perhaps an inner confidence, and the benefit of not having experienced literal hundreds years worth of trauma and losses, Gwen too had a figure she looked up to as a greater being. Gwen too had a Doctor, and it was Jack.

Whereas Jack was only with the Doctor for short bursts of time, time that generally vindicated Jack's view of the Doctor (which we can partially thank Doctor Who being a family show for), Gwen works with Jack for long periods of time, and she has a front row seat to his flaws and his failures, as well as his successes. And right from the start, Gwen regularly challenges Jack's moral choices, so in time, whereas Jack never quite shakes his idealisation of the Doctor, Gwen has a much more nuanced and critical view of Jack.

Jack never stops believing that no matter how hard he tries, no matter how much he tries to be a good leader, there's still someone out there better, more moral, more worthy, than him to lead.

Gwen however, despite her own flaws, of which she knows she has plenty of, swiftly learns that actually, no one is the perfect leader, and actually, sometimes she really is the best person to be in control of things.

Gwen trusts herself in a way Jack doesn't, Gwen trusts her right to lead in a way Jack doesn't, and so people trust Gwen in a way they don't trust Jack. And this creates a self-fulfilling prophecy, with Gwen's trust and Jack's distrust being vindicated.

[uss-genderprise]

thinking about character colour theory again. like yeah "red is [ianto's] colour" and jack is most definitely blue and that's classic red/blue ship stuff right there but i disagree. yeah ianto looks great in red and wears it a lot but he also wears a lot of blue and purple and looks the best in purple imo so i'd solidly put him in purple character territory (and if that means that when i cosplay him people keep asking me if i'm purple guy or cecil palmer. so be it). but that means the red/blue coloured characters dynamic doesn't work, except! yes it does, john hart is right there in his red coat. so we have jack as blue, ianto as purple, and john as red. and guess fucking what.

bi flag colour picked from them lol

(does this mean john is fem and ianto is nonbinary? yes.)

also. i like to think of ianto as a very good balancer between john and jack. he's the only normal one (no he isn't but he's pretending to be which is something they desperately need lol) and i think he gets them both. he gets the wanting to save everyone (jack) and the not wanting to be left behind (john) and the loving someone so much even though you know it can't work and that person being jack specifically (john again) and the hey maybe you shouldn't murder people for fun john (jack). so that means he's right between them on the colour wheel. he's important to me okay

anyway. you get me. if you don't get me that's valid too

[jantohaven]

Ianto Jones and Danny Pink

Loving to draw parallels between TW and DW characters, I am amused it took me so long to draw one between Ianto Jones and Danny Pink. I might not know all about Danny, since I haven’t ever listened to DW audios and am not that deep in the fandom as in the TW one, but from what we see in the tv-episodes (and it’s a shame we don’t get enough with Danny) I think he and Ianto are alike in many ways.

For both Ianto and Danny, saving their loved ones is a priority over saving the world. They treat love with an almost soldier-like mentality - protection and loyalty first. Both Ianto and Danny died twice. Both have died the second time protecting their partners and one could say that saving the world was a nice bonus to that. Danny: “I didn’t die saving the world, Doctor. I died saving Clara. The rest of you just got lucky.” Ianto does not explicitly say it, but his actions in the House of the Dead all but scream it.

For both Ianto and Danny, the one thing that could have swayed their focus from ensuring the happiness of their loved ones was saving the lives of innocent children

Ianto and Danny are some of the few who are not really impressed with the Doctor but tolerate him for their partners’ sakes (honestly, if they ever met, they would absolutely bond over this particular one).

Last but not least - their fondness for pink shirts

P. S. Their lovers are *kinda* immortal

[ghost-in-marble]

It is an awful way to begin, but I actually really like this headcanon for them. Going only off the show, as I haven’t listened to the audios, Ianto seems to be prepared for the possibility of distracting Jack by flirting, and he may even be resigned to the possibility of sleeping with him to keep him distracted from what Ianto is planning. His attraction to Jack took him by surprise, given he later admits he’s never felt that way for a man before.

If they did have a physical relationship before Lisa’s death, it ended afterward, as Jack very obviously felt that betrayal, not only for the danger that it put the team in, but because it was proof that Ianto didn’t actually want him as Jack had thought he did. And Ianto was grieving terribly. But I think Ianto’s proposition of Jack in episode 8 then reignites it - Jack was clearly startled by the suggestion, but equally clearly they have done it before, and Ianto bringing it up means that he does, in fact, want Jack, that it wasn’t just about distracting him from Lisa - or at least it moved away from that over time.

It also makes the scene in Countrycide so much worse, because it’s plausible that Ianto didn’t really register it when Jack kisses him back to consciousness, but if they had a physical relationship prior to that? Oof.

The mere moments between these two gifs absolutely ruins me.

I know that word of God has said that Jack and Ianto didn't sleep together while Lisa was alive. I know it and I respect it. Because the alternative is, frankly, awful. It's an awful way to begin a relationship, and an awful thing to do to yourself and to someone else. So I understand why they chose to not go down that route.

This moment, however, tells me something different.

Because the first gif is Ianto feeling relief. He got the job because he impressed Jack. His life is shit and the next however long will be hard but this is the beginning of the end. Everything will be okay as long as he can get through these next few months.

The second gif is Ianto realizing that the reason he got the job is because Jack wants him. This is Jack setting a precedent. You come to work for me because I like how you look and I like how you felt on me. Everything will be okay, he still knows. But he'll have to do something awful to make that happen.

So I respect the writers intention, I live in that little sliver of grey area. The area where maybe Jack was surprised to be kissed in the SUV not for the first time, but for the first time of Ianto's own choice. Because it's so deliciously devastating.