#chibnall critical

[of-monsters-and-werewolves]

The Power of the Doctor feels like the perfect encapsulation of the Chibnall era in one episode. A microcosm, if you will: rushed, overstuffed, some bits that are really good, some bits that anger me, some genuinely touching moments, some fun moments, some good ideas executed poorly, a lot of mediocrity, mixed production, dropped plotpoints that go nowhere, poor or inconsistent characterisation, overall being an absolute mess and giving me a massive fucking headache.

[leikeliscomet]

“But We Love Martha Jones!” - The Doctor Who Fandom’s Selective Memory of Racism

Chapter 4 - Martha Triumphant?

I want to say the show and fandom have improved how they treated Black characters since what happened to Martha/Freema but it hasn’t. From the backhanded praise of Bill, to the allegations of Tosin Cole being a “diversity hire”, to the dozens of excuses of why Jo Martin’s Doctor being reduced to cameos was somehow great Black female representation, it's clear the “we love Martha” tweets aren’t enough. It's a chicken or egg situation where I wonder was it the bias of the fandom being confirmed by the writing or the writing confirming the biases of the fandom but would that matter? Freema’s treatment isn’t exclusive to her as so many Black actors have come forward about the racism they’ve experienced and the failure of cast, crew and fandom to protect them. Many fans blatantly said RTD had no responsibility whatsoever to protect Freema and how poor Russell can’t be blamed for how people read S3.. even though he wrote it… so I’m already sceptical about how RTD2’s Black representation will turn out. I won’t be extra pessimistic, but I’m not patting RTD’s back just yet. Hope however does come in the shape of Ncuti Gatwa, the first Black man to play the Doctor in the main lineup. Again, not patting any backs just yet but I hope Ncuti’s welcome and the welcome of the next Black companion after Ryan shows growth from 2007. A Black character admired and adored for what they bring to the table. No backhanded comparisons to whoever came before, no companion initiation arc and no consolation prize ships - a developed character given the same TARDIS etiquette as the others. I hope the history of the next Black companion, whoever they may be, is a kinder one.

<- Chapter 3

[khruschevshoe]

Thasmin & How the Changing of Showrunners Handicapped Their Story

You know what? I'm going to rant about it. I've been thinking about Doctor Who from a Watsonian versus Doylist point of view on a constant basis, especially when it comes to showrunners and how the doctor is handed over from showrunner to showrunner and how the exit of Yaz from the show is it possibly the clearest example in the world of this feeling of a showrunner being switched. I'm not talking writing differences, I'm not talking stylistic differences, I'm talking the way that she left the show. Because I would put all of my life savings on the fact that if Thirteen and fourteen had the same show runner, Yaz would have been able to stay around for 13's regeneration. You can feel the writing of the show STRAINING to justify why Thirteen would dump her/leave her behind. It feels abrupt because it IS. Rose got to continue her story with 10 until its organic end. Same with Clara. Hell, even River, though her circumstances were slightly different. There is literally no reason why Fourteen wouldn't go after her the moment the 60th specials end except for the fact that for some absolutely weird reason RTD didn't mention Yaz ONCE despite 14 being more "emotionally open" than the Doctors before him.

Like, I'm going to be honest. I'm mostly ambivalent on Thasmin. I think they're sweet and had potential and got screwed in the build up in seasons 11 and 12 (up until Revolution, even). But if I was y'all I would be PISSED. Because that kind of treatment of Yaz and Thasmin as a love story sucked from both the Power of the Doctor AND the 60th anniversary specials. No closure. No real explanation. No acknowledgement of the main love story of the last showrunner. (Even Steven Moffat name-dropped Bad Wolf/Rose in the 50th special, though he did also have the whole 10th Doctor running around with Elizabeth I thing so maybe that cancels itself out.) The mechanics of the show and how it's run screwed you over. And I'm sorry. I hope y'all get some acknowledgement in 15's Era. I'll be pleasantly and happily surprised if we get a cameo (or some miraculous wrap-up of the storyline ala Husbands of River Song), but seeing how the most logical place for a mention (the toymaker) came and went without a peep I'm not hedging my bets.

(Going to go check out some fanfic, though- and imagine that fourteen took off towards Sheffield the moment the 60th anniversary wrapped!)

[gayleviticus]

as much as i do dislike the chibnall era on a fundamental level, i think that my problem w it is just that like... it's not well made? but i don't think it fails to be doctor who in any sense, which i feel like is the tack a lot of pro-rtd anti-moff (and to an extent anti-chib, but i think moff gets it worse bc ppl just did not watch the chib era) criticism takes. it feels like people just constantly criticise the moff era for not being rtd who (it's too focused on the doctor, we don't see companion families, the companions aren't as down to earth, modern earth is no longer a consistent setting w continuity etc). and sure, some of these criticisms are legit in themselves, and a degree of comparison is fair, i do it w the chib era, but i dunno, when it feels like there's a whole laundry list of moffat era 'problems' that boil down to 'its not the rtd era' it feels like a lot of feverent rtd good moffat bad criticism is implicitly pushing for a very narrow and limited view of what doctor who should be.

[seed-rom]

“The Chibnall era of doctor who is supposed to appeal more to children and be more family friendly, that’s why it’s more obvious in its storytelling” doesn’t really hold up to me, because the late 2000s, early 2010s era of BBC kids programming that used relatively sophisticated sci fi and fantasy plots and had no trouble attracting dedicated younger audiences.

The obvious example is The Sarah Jane Adventures, which remains CBBC’s most popular show ever, but there’s many other examples that spring to mind. The Sparticle Mystery hinged its plot on the concept of particle acceleration, going so far as to actually shoot scenes in a real life particle accelerator facility. Young Dracula depicted a classic ethical conflict between groups of vampires with differing views on killing humans, with multiple morally grey protagonists. It make many references to the novel Dracula, which is significantly above its 6-12 year old target audience’s reading age, as well as historical figures associated with vampire legend. Wizards vs. Aliens decided to humanise one of its main villains at the end of the final series by showing her care for her family, and be capable of forming connections with people who should be her enemies. And that doesn’t even begin to go into the appeal of other childrens series that use more “grown up” themes (Go look up Jacqueline Wilson - I watched dustbin baby on the kids channel at a formative age).

So no, appealing to kids is not an excuse for simplistic storytelling and lack of nuance

[tinkerbitch69]

The doctors reunion with Ace and Tegan in the power of the doctor was incredibly lacklustre compared to his one with Mel in the giggle.

I’m sorry, I generally hate to level this complaint at Jodie (and I know it was probably Chibnall who wrote it that way) but that was NOT the doctor. The Doctor has never been so cold when meeting old companions. NEVER. There’s just something that feels so fundamentally wrong about that scene and it’s the only part of the Chibnall era that I truly 100% hate.

And the absolute GOAT that is Ace McShane deserved better than this!

[thenotoriousscuttlecliff]

No modern Doctor has been more neglected by their creator than this one:

What makes it worse is how much they patted themselves on the back for casting the first POC Doctor. Like so much of that era it was just another case of representation without substance.

[quantumshade]

[raywritesthings]

something about how the first black female doctor was just a subplot in a white female doctor’s story and how the first black male doctor’s regeneration has been subverted by a previous white male doctor literally getting a second regeneration scene… really really just highlights how little doctor who and the bbc have improved from 2007 when the first black female companion’s story was all about how she wasn’t that other white female companion, and i’m not gonna even pretend i am anything but disgusted about it

[victoriawaterfield]

something i've noticed w chris chibnall's writing. idk how much sense this is gonna make. but when it comes to writing pre established characters (reoccurring ones, bringing back past companions) he's really good. like a good amount of his torchwood episodes that just include team torchwood are super good, and jack and the other returning companions (ace / tegan) are honestly some of the best written bits of thirteens era to me and then when it comes to his own characters they just sort've. fall flat? if that makes sense? like with john hart, you can very much see the attempt at making him a river song (even though she didn't really exist at the time) or the master esque character but it falls flat and seems more like knock off then anything else. it's not the worst, but it sets up for something that is obviously greater than it ended up being. and with thirteens era, her companions don't get enough character development despite having the time to grow as they're shown on screen, even the doctor, despite having her moments, doesn't get a lot of development past the timeless child, which was definitely interesting (this isn't negative or positive, i did find it intriguing) but also, once again, not elaborated on. now obviously this all isn't necessarily like. a bad thing from my point of view? i just think that. idk. i just thought it was interesting.

[sometimesraven]

for y'all saying Star Beast would've been torn apart if it was a Chibnall era episode: true!

however

Chibnall would never have been brave enough to make the entire plot revolve around being trans (or if he did, it would be shallow and sketched over) and that, I think, is why he was such a stand-out writer in his bad-ness

Doctor Who is cheesy and corny and sometimes downright bad, but the important thing is that it's brave and it's kind and Chibnall barely touched the surface of that.

I'm one of RTD's number 1 critics. I hate some of the shit he's written and I resent what he did with Ten towards the end of his tenure and anyone who knows me knows that I believe End of Time was the single worst regeneration story ever written.

But Chibnall wrote some absolutely unforgivable centrist-ass shit. The most cowardly, 'safe' writing.

And don't get me wrong, it wasn't all his fault! The director also sucked! The actors looked like they had no idea what they were doing half the time! Chibnall's era had no idea what to do with its characters for most of the episodes! RTD has many many flaws but at least his characters feel like people.

IDK I love Thirteen but Chibnall is an objectively bad writer, at least in the Whoniverse. His shitty signature is evident in the Torchwood episodes he wrote, too. I think it ultimately boiled down to love -- the love for DW and everything it stood for just wasn't there in Chibnall's writing compared to RTD and Moffat.

tl;dr Star Beast absolutely had a lot of the flaws people hate in Chibnall's writing, but what objectively sets it apart is the heart and bravery of the message

[of-monsters-and-werewolves]

Seeing some critiques about TenThree getting to settle down with a companion whilst Thirteen doesn't get, and actively refuses, that chance but primarily blaming RTD for it and like... it's not Russell's fault Chibs just had her dump Yaz off pre-regeneration for seemingly no reason whatsoever.

There's some valid, good faith criticism to be had here about both Fourteen's rehab with the Nobles and the lack of Yaz acknowledgement, but criticising RTD for this specifically feels odd.

[leikeliscomet]

Claiming bigeneration was some type of commentary on Black trauma then blocking me, a Black fan, for saying it doesn't work as said commentary and that it wasn't your place or RTD's to do that type of commentary anyway. Cool.

This is why I say on dwtwt and I'll say it again on here:

Stop getting your understanding of antiblack racism and Black representation from RTD, Moffat and Chibnall for fucks sake and consume media made by Black creatives.

I can't explain how jarring it is from how fans talk about Rosa and Human Nature/Family of Blood how clear it is that you lot don't engage with these topics outside the show and treat these episodes and characters as some form of politic. It's embarrassing. It's even more jarring when you lot's antiblackness jumps out the minute Black fans don't put your faves on a pedestal. You can love whatever part of the show you want but please stop the grand statements on how DW cures racism and crediting RTD, Moffat and Chibnall for the work they don't have the range for and that they literally never did. There's actual Black people writing the stuff you claim to care about. Support them. Support us!

[khruschevshoe]

It's so funny to me that Chris Chibnall wrote both Cyberwoman and the Timeless Children because it shows that at one point he DID understand the horror of the Cybermen- that they were formerly people, that they are what's left of a person that is no longer there, that they are a corpse puppeted by a machine, that there is a human component at the center and the horror comes from seeing your former loved one scooped out and your hope forever being cursed to a futile one...to nameless extra Time Lords being made into basically robots except they can regenerate this time. Like, what the hell happened? Did he just spend so long thinking about the Timeless Children plot twist that he just fundamentally misunderstood why the Cybermen are terrifying or how they can be used to add to the tragedy of the plot?

Tell me what fundamentally changes if you make the Cybermen in Haunting of Villa Diodati/Ascension/Timeless Children basic robotic killing machines. Hell, what changes if you make them Daleks? Not once did they seek to convert the Doctor/her allies. If anything, their suits were just used as disguises.

Imagine if during the disguise part of the story the suits had come alive and started converting the team or hell, outright converted one of them. Imagine if they had to deal with the horror of that. Imagine if THAT is what caused Ryan/Graham to realize they didn't want to travel with the Doctor anymore. Hell, you could save them at the last moment if you want and leave them shaken up, just have them experience SOME true horror/fear. If Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel could do that with Jackie Tyler and Cyberwoman could do that with Lisa Hallett in a bone-chiling manner, you could do that with your team. I get if you were trying not to turn your third black companion in a row into a Cyberman, but in that case either sacrifice Graham or Yaz or don't do them at all if you're not going to use them for their express purpose/mechanic within the story.

[gayleviticus]

moffat who speeches can be cringe or cheesy sometimes (esp 11th doctor ones imo) but st least they're like. earnest and saying Something, which is what let's them be a bit cringe.

but everything the 13th doctor says sounds like you asked chat gpt to write some kind of corporate PR self help drivel. it inherently can't be cringe bc being cringe requires a human being expressing themself and taking the risk that self expression will seem stupid.

[thevoidremembers]

The worst thing about the Chibnall era isn’t even the Timeless Child, it’s that there are some genuinely interesting concepts, ideas, and characters that have the potential to be amazing but then they are either rushed and not given enough focus or else not explored with any sort of depth.

Like, so many of the episodes sound great if you just read a description of them but then when watching them the majority of the episodes feel like first drafts.

It’s the same for the characters, like, on paper they sound distinct and interesting and like they could develop into great characters with unique and engaging dynamics. It’s just that they then either don’t get enough focus and end up with really rushed, weak arcs that fall flat or else they don’t get consistent characterization and it makes it difficult to understand who they are because there’s nothing concrete about them and their actions + reactions to things, instead leaving them a hollow shell with a bullet point list of a few basic facts about them. I also can’t say that the bland, indistinct, exposition only dialogue helps. Like, it’s genuinely aggravating to see so much wasted potential.