#tywin is sadistic

[imjustapoorwayfaringgeek]

Love your art it’s so soft and fluffy. Have you ever drawn Cersei?

Here uwu

i still like the colors of the last one even though it's not the rendered(???is that what rendering is??) version

LOTS OF FLUFFY GOLDEN HAIIIRR!!!!1

[thebadboyfanclub]

Don’t Say It (Tywin x Reader)

I know I disappeared for a little but I hit a writers block with this one, I think it’s due to exhaustion over me working full time so I hope @thanyatargaryen forgives me if this wasn’t what you intended. Enjoy

Olenna Tyrell was a legend, she had learned the rules by heart and was now on a mission to pass them down to her wonderful granddaughters, the beautiful rose that listened to the name of Margaery and the bewitching siren that could stop a man with a simple song, the young (y/n).

Olenna was no fool, she recognized that the two girls were her strongest soldiers, with these two alone she could rule all of Westeros, well at least all the men which was the same thing.

“Today is an important day, even for you dearest, the wedding of your sister to the king means every eligible lord from all of the seven kingdoms will be attending”

“I am well aware, you do not have to worry about me, grandmother”

(Y/n) reassured olenna whilst her handmaidens assisted her with the finest dress anyone had ever seen, it was her first time at court she needed to look her best, (y/n) squeezed into a dress that was custom made, her hair had taken hours and was brushed to perfection and she smelled of the finest of fragrance oils that were brought from Dorne, it is safe to say that (y/n) couldn’t have looked nor smelled better.

Everyone’s breath hitched at their throats when (y/n) walked with the confidence only a Tyrell could possess, she strutted up to her big sister to wrap her arms around Margaery with clear endearment.

“Congratulations, my queen”

“Oh come on now stop with that”

“I know this is a blessed day for the king but could he be so kind and hear a plea I have for him?”

“Anything for my good sister”

“Look after my dear Marge, as she has done for me”

(Y/n)s voice was as sweet as strawberry cakes and her smile could stop a man dead in his tracks, the young Tyrell leaned on her big sister pressing her chin on Margaerys shoulder whilst the bride leaned her head close to (y/n) as well, the girls shared a strong bond, it was the first time that they would be separated ever since (y/n) was born.

What they did not know was that a certain someone had already his blue set of eyes on the lovely Tyrell who seemed so blatantly unaware of it all, Tywin had sworn to never remarry, no one would ever be as good as his dearest Joanna, she was the one that knew him like the back of her hand, the lady that could wrap her arms around the vicious lion and make him swoon, if she saw him now she would laugh at him, she always told him “never say never my love, you won’t know what the future holds for you”.

“You have your queen and your alliance now, I hope you are happy”

“Naturally, Margaery will serve the realm greatly”

“Soon enough she will start popping out lions, hopefully, my little (y/n) will have better luck”

“What could be better than becoming the queen mother?”

“Becoming the lady wife of a lord that cares for your well-being and happiness”

Tywin grew silent, there was nothing he could say against the allegations of Jeffrey’s cruel nature, he could only hope that Margaery was cunning enough to outsmart him which honestly was not going to be much of a huddle, all the times that Joffrey has been able to be sadistic was owed to other peoples stupidity to either allow him or cover for him.

“Well then let me take a good look at this girl you have such expectations for, lady (y/n)”

Tywin called for the girl whilst he stood a few feet away from the newlyweds, (y/n)s eyes finally found his, and Tywin felt his chest grow tight, the girl was a dream, a dream he often had but could never speak of due to him always believing it will be just that… a silly dream of a widower.

“Lord Tywin, I can imagine this day is probably one of the happiest for your house, correct me if I am wrong but house Tyrell has never wed a Lannister prior to this moment”

“Indeed, let this be a fruitful union for both of our houses, your grandmother has spoken quite highly of you”

“Oh do not listen to her, it is a grandmother's nature to always speak for her grandchildren in the best light”

“Nonsense, Garlan is utterly nice which makes him boring and Loras likes to imagine being a young day twirling in a dress on the garden field, I had lost all hope up until you and your sister were born, the true soldiers of the Tyrell’s”

(Y/n) smiled sweetly before she leaned to place a kiss on her grandmother's cheek, (y/n) and Margaery was well trained, they had sat on the table and played against the best of players only to come out victorious, now Margaery was queen and (y/n) was ready to score her alliance that would bring nothing but glory to her and her family.

“Lady olenna is a lot of things but she is not soft nor does she hide behind her finger, if she says you are her best card then I truly believe it”

Olenna noticed the graciousness in the old lions' words, she picked up on the scanning look that started from her toes and ended on the top of her head, (y/n) did not even have a hair out of place, she placed her hand over her heart as a sign of vulnerability and her smile became brighter in gratitude.

“You are utmost kind, my lord, it is not every day a lady gets to be complimented by the warden of Casterly Rock and the hand of the king, I consider myself lucky for that”

“Luck has nothing to do with it, above it all I am a man that favors honesty and that is what you are receiving”

“I shall go before your words get all in my head, it was an honor to meet you, my lord”

(Y/n) went to curtsy before she was interrupted by Tywin that instead of letting her, reached for her hand and then placed his other one on top of hers, a smirk still evident on his lips as his eyes pierced through her, yet he was left with nothing, (y/n) had always prevailed under the hawking looks of men, she was well aware that she could not budge whatsoever.

“I will see you later Grandmother”

“Of course little flower, go on now, have some fun for me”

Olenna kissed the top of the lady’s head lovingly, it was not a secret that olenna doted on her especially now that it was her turn to marry, she had to bite her lip when it came to Margaery since her son had already bargained her for a sweet deal of a crown, she must do right by (y/n).

Once the lady was far away enough Olenna turned her head towards Tywin who was still following the enchanting Tyrell with his gaze, the way she walked, talked, even her breathing was perfect, his thumb traced over his fingertips, recalling how soft and warm he skin felt against his touch.

“I know that look”

“Pardon?”

“You are planning something”

“I always am”

“If you are scheming to betroth my precious flower to another lion, I must admit I would rather it be you than that little son of yours, in truth I would rather for her to stay away from lions but an old lion is better than Tyrion”

-

The news of Tywins betrothal hit everyone in kings landing like a ton of bricks. Joffrey was dead, Margaery was technically the dowager queen, and the crown was getting weak by the moment.

(Y/n) had become her sister's shadow, some applauded her compassion and how she was present at all hours to console her sister, what they did not know was that Olenna was already moving the strings for Margaery to marry Tommen, the young, kind boy who could never hurt a fly, however, Olenna had ensured both of the girls now once and for all, what better way to do that than to mess with Tywins head?

“Lady olenna, to what do I owe the pleasure?”

“I am here to propose another marriage between my house and yours”

“That is no surprise, I am to expect you wish to betroth Margaery to Tommen?”

“No, no my dear Margaery has been through way too much”

“Loras is still to marry Cersei, is there a change in that betrothal?”

“Unfortunately that mess of a wedlock is still going steady, I am concerned over my (y/n)”

Tywin had been too occupied with writing to look up at olenna up until now, his ears perked up at the sound of her name, the girl with the bright smile and the scary resemblance to a shadow of the past.

“What do you wish to suggest?”

“My (y/n) is sweet, kind, and full of life, I believe Tommen would treat her as delicate as she deserves to be treated”

“Tommen? You want to put (y/n) by the new king's side?”

“Tommen is a good boy, nothing like Joffrey, I have taken notice of how Tommen smiles at her, no man could ever deny my beloved granddaughter, I am convinced their reign will be prosperous”

“Mayhaps, although I do not believe Tommen should be the one to marry (y/n)”

“Who else could stand the weight of the crown? Tommen is in much need of someone like (y/n), to keep him humble and gentle, show him what it is like to be loved”

That was what made tywins blood boil the most, the concept of (y/n) hugging Tommen, his grandson brushing (y/n)s hair, the lady creating a child out of Tommens semen, the image of her with a swollen belly whilst Tommen rubbed his hand over it made his skin crawl.

No, no he would never allow another man to be by her side on those milestones, he was graced by the gods with a second chance at love, how could he be a bystander to a marriage that would probably be terrific, although Tywin could never survive with the “what if” lingering on his mind.

“Because she is to marry me”

“Pardon?”

“I am to be betrothed to the lady (y/n), our marriage will take place the same day as Margaerys and Tommens, your Margaery will be queen, and lady (y/n) will become the lady of the rock”

“I would rather die than let my dearest become a second wife, your daughter will eat her alive once the news hit her ears”

“Are you afraid of Cersei?”

“I am petrified of the brass neck your daughter possesses, that woman thinks she can do whatever she pleases with no consequence”

“Cersei is my daughter, you have nothing to worry about she will not be allowed to harm your little girl, once (y/n) falls pregnant that child will become heir of Casterly Rock”

“What if she births a girl?”

“You and (y/n) along with Margaery will decide on her future, I will not partake or force my daughter to do anything”

“Your offer is dripping with syrup, but I will not accept, I gave you Loras and Margaery and now you dare to ask for more”

“If you do not consent to this then I shall announce a match of (y/n) and Ser Sandor Clegane, how does that sound?”

“Careful now, what you are suggesting is… grasping”

“Indeed, but I am feeling rather charitable so I grant you the day to decide, if I do not have an answer by the morrow then the sweet girl will be cloaked with a wonderful yellow flag”

Tywin was a man that proudly stood behind his every word, so as he walked out with a triumphed smirk on his lips he was too occupied with feeling his triumph to notice that olenna was also doing the same (y/n) was now the future lady of the rock and Margaery was to have a second chance to wear the crown.

“My lord”

(Y/n) interrupted his thoughts once she saw him, Tywin stopped swiftly before he could fall right onto her, she was waiting behind the door anxiously, her eyes gawked at the man as her cheeks grew rosy from the embarrassment of her clumsy nature.

“Lady (y/n), what seems to be so important that you could not wait in your chamber for your grandmother”

“She informed me about my betrothal, I apologize I was just so fidgety I wanted to know the second that it was settled”

“Are you in such a rush to marry that boy? I am concerned over your taste”

“Tommen is a wonderful person and the future king, any lady would be lucky to be his lady wife”

“So is it the promise of a crown that excites you? I can tell you wearing a piece of metal decorated with gems will not bring you any happiness”

“Pardon my intrusion but why are you so opposed to the fact of me marrying your grandson? I am highborn and have received the proper education, your house along with the Baratheon owe my family everything”

“It is not you that is not enough young lady”

Silence fell over them, Tywin had stumbled right on her trap and now he was as still as a grain of salt, only blinking at the girl that acted surprised over his suggestion that Tommen was the one that was short when he stood next to her, (y/n) bit her lip before she gazed down for a split second and then back up, she wanted to appear at a loss of words.

“I do not want to believe what my thoughts are suggesting”

“You are a fool if you don’t”

“Lord Tywin, you and I it- how could”

“I am too old for this game my dear, I have given your grandmother the rest of the day to decide and if I’m being frank I believe that luck is on my side, so I suggest you ran along and instruct the finest tailor to start on your gown, you must look as stunning as ever”

“I am fluttered, but I do not understand-“

“Listen to me dear, from that moment you smiled at me you have haunted every waking moment and I cannot seem to escape you even in the shackles of deep slumber, I am aware that I do not look like the young and beautiful knight in shining armor a maiden might expect to marry but I can you this promise right now, every other lady from east to west will be jealous of the luck you held when you marry me”

Lord Tywin once again made his exit thinking that he had the upper hand, if someone were to consider everything that has been done in this world wasn’t it always like this?

A man trotted away victorious while the woman stood and smiled proudly at herself, moving the strings without even the man realizing that she had very carefully placed the strings around his arms like a little puppet.

“My dearest girl, I was there at your birth and I took one good look at you and saw the moon and the stars in those eyes, I always knew you would be the brightest of them all”

Olenna informed (y/n) once she had walked into the office Tywin was in moments ago, Olenna wrapped her arms around her in the most loving manner and (y/n) responded with the same warmth.

“We have so much to plan, the future doesn’t wait for anyone”

-

“How could he ever do this to our family?”

“Who did what?”

“Do not play the fool with me Jaime I am sure you have heard of the vilest news, our father is to marry that little rat from Highgarden”

“One of them is a smirking whore and the other one is a rat? Well you certainly won’t have a good time in the palace once all of them marry into our family”

“How could be so calm at this time? Our son is dead, the other one is to marry Margaery and now our father betrayed us”

“Our father has been without a wife for over a decade Cersei, he is a highborn lord, anyone would have a good chunk of heirs from another wife by now”

In jaimes defense he has always attempted to take the logical side when Cersei went on her little paranoid rants over loyalty or whatever the case was at that time, however, this time he could not sit for hours and let her blabber.

Jaime did not even blink when his father told him about his betrothal, he is a kingsguard, and Tyrion is… well, Tyrion and Cersei have played her part in becoming queen though she could not inherit lannisport, every year he waited for his father to announce a marriage of alliance for himself and now it was finally time.

“This is despicable, they will tarnish our name”

“How will they do that exactly? (Y/n) will probably do her best at becoming pregnant which will install our name to live on which as you know is truly what our father cares about”

“Margaery is a manipulative little scum she will shred our Tommen to pieces”

“Tommen was tormented by Joffrey for years and you know it, if anything having some female tending to him will probably do wonders for his confidence”

“Of course as a man that is all you think about, I do not even know why I came to you over this matter, once again I am called to act by myself”

That is when Jaime had heard enough, very softly he rose from his seat and went over to his clearly disheveled sister, a kiss was laid on the center of her forehead all while his hands rubbed up and down to her forearms making her puff out a breath of relief from the comfort his touch brought to her.

“You will do nothing, Father has already announced his betrothal, if anyone even touched a hair from (y/n)s head he will not hesitate to demand its head to be served on a silver platter”

“Father is just being short sighed it is us that must act to save him”

“From what? Having his bed warm by a woman? Especially her, surely you are not that blind that you haven’t understood what he saw in her”

“Don’t say it”

“I know it feels like salt over the wound-“

“No, no”

“You must admit the resemblance is uncanny”

“Never!”

Cersei pushed him away harshly, tears welled up in her eyes and all of a sudden she was rudely pulled back to that day, the gods forsaken day that Cersei had to witness her mother laying in bed with blood staining her nightgown.

“That bitch is not our mother”

“She is not, though she looks like her”

Requests are open!

[allovesthings]

Rhaegar and Catelyn did not start theirs respective war. We know who is responsible for the war of the five kings AND for the rebellion and it's not them.

The rebellion was going to happen anyway regardless of Rhaegar making the decision to take Lyanna (whether or not he really took her, she chose to go with him or he rescued her). The Starks and Baratheons may not have been the leaders of said rebellion but a rebellion was going to happen. The rebellion started because they had a mad king on the throne who refused to uphold the social contract between him and the noble houses, executed two nobles unlawfully and then asked for the head of Ned and Robert who, at the time, did nothing wrong. A mad king who was influenced by bad advisors who wanted power for themselves.

Was the Lyanna choice, the reason as to why Brandon went to King's Landing in the first place ? Yes absolutely but Aerys would have crossed that line sooner or later with another noble who offended him. Also we don't know if Rhaegar and Lyanna tried to send a message to Brandon before he got to King's Landing and he never got it.

The war of the five kings was also going to happen anyway regardless of Catelyn making the decision to take Tyrion. Littlefinger and Lysa used the tension between the Starks and the Lannisters to start it (tensions started by Tywin's extreme violence) and then a young "mad King" probably influenced by Littlefinger executed a noble unlawfully again (therefore breaking the social contract between the monarchy and the noble house) and demanded the rest of his family to come down to King's Landing to bend the knee (let's be real, Joffrey would have killed Robb and Cat if they did).

Did Cat taking Tyrion accelerate said tensions ? Yes absolutely but the war was also inevitable because Littlefinger was pushing it AND because Joffrey was a sadistic king who also would have crossed said line regardless.

[aphroditelovesu]

Could you rank the GOT yanderes on a scale of 1-7 based on how they treat Modern!Reader, 1 being beneath the yan, 4 being like an equal, and 7 being above the yan?

Hmm... It's a complicated question since there are several characters, but I'll list a few specifically. If you want others, just send them!

Cersei Lannister: 7 because we're talking about her. She's a scary yandere. Cersei is very possessive and controlling and if Modern!Reader doesn't do what she wants, it could end in disaster for them.

Daenerys Targaryen: 6. She's not as scary as Cersei, but she's not calm either. I think it depends on the stage at which you find her. If it's before her arrival in Westeros, then it would be a 5 but if it's after, a 6 almost a 7. Just be careful with her temper.

Jon Snow: 3. Jon is a soft yandere and you can't change my mind. He is very easygoing and due to his low self-esteem, he would never want to inflict harm on Modern!Reader. He cares a lot and one of the only overwhelming feelings he has is overprotection.

Joffrey Baratheon: 7. This one doesn't even need explanations. Joffrey is a sadist by nature and although he may adore Modern!Reader, I still see him wanting to hurt them as a way of breaking their affection. Besides being possessive.

Tywin Lannister: 6. Tywin is complicated, although he can be a dangerous yandere, he wouldn't be for Modern!Reader but for others. He would never hurt them, he cares about them too much for that. Tywin can punish them, but it would never be physically.

Tyrion Lannister: 4. Tyrion is very calm about his obsession and would hardly do anything against Modern!Reader. He likes them and sees them as a kind of friend and confidant. Tyrion is not demanding or overprotective, but he tends to protect Modern!Reader from several things, one of them being Joffrey.

Jaime Lannister: 5. Jaime is very calm too, he's not exactly possessive but he likes having Modern!Reader's attention on him. He likes to impress them and is protective. Jaime would never do anything to hurt them and often joins his brother in protecting them.

Margaery Tyrell: 6. Margaery is extremely manipulative and because of this, she sees no reason to try to hurt Modern!Reader because she knows she will have your attention. She is possessive too, wanting them for herself, but she is not demanding. She takes whatever she can.

Jorah Mormont: 5. Jorah is a worshipful and desperate yandere. He wants to be loved by his darling above all else and he will be willing to do whatever it takes to get that. Mormont would never hurt his darling, but he can become aggressive when provoked.

Sansa Stark: 4. Sansa poses no danger to her darling, but can pose a threat to others depending on the situation. She is not possessive but can get irritated if she doesn't have her attention.

Arya Stark: 6. Arya is very intelligent and has violent tendencies and although she will never hurt Modern!Reader, she is not against the idea of ​​keeping them to herself. She just wants to protect and take care of them and in her own way.

Sandor Clegane: 5. Sandor is not the demanding or really possessive type of Modern!Reader, he spends as much time as he can with them and accepts anything. The biggest danger is how protective Sandor is over them, having no qualms about killing anyone who looks the other way at Modern!Reader.

Gregor Clegane: 7. Gregor is violent, aggressive and very possessive of Modern!Reader. He will beat anyone to death just for breathing the same air as you. Gregor could also be willing to inflict pain on you and will feel good about it.

Khal Drogo: 7. No explanation per se, Drogo is violent by nature and extremely possessive. While he's not going to inflict pain on Modern!Reader, Drogo can be a very scary yandere.

Viserys III Targaryen: 7. Viserys is out of control and easily irritated, making him willing to hurt Modern!Reader if he deems it necessary. In addition to being possessive and petty.

[sugarprincessbitch]

Hi!

how about a female reader that causes both yan!Joffrey and yan! Margaery love her? Would they accept polyamory, or would King Joffrey annul his betrothal to Margaery, making her marry his brother Tommen? And what if Olenna intervened to poison Joffrey so that you are finally Margaery's? And as Tommen is sweet and not sadistic at all, could poly love be possible?

Hi anon!! Like the idea of this ones being yandere's together, i don't know how it didn't occur to me before. Thanks for the ask 💞

Well, we know that Joffrey has some Narcissist and Antisocial personality disorder (in short words a psychopath). These types of persons don't have the capacity to feel love, they like the attention that people gave them (We see in GOT how Joffrey likes people to know about his presence, presenting himself in a flamboyant way), so as a yandere I don't think he would like to share his darling to anyone. But with the other person being Margarey (he is in the series a little infatuated with her) maybe he would "share" the darling, but as sharing a precious toy with a person you like (He is so self absorbed that he wouldn't conceive the idea that you would choose someone else beside him, because he sees himself as "super incredible").

The scenario in which Joffrey can annul the marriage with Margarey (We have to remember that Joffrey is not the one making desicsions, tywin is, and he needs for the moment this alliance with the Tyrells) it will have to be in a specific situation, the reader being a noble of an important house will help but not entirely. So no, i don't think that could happen. And Olenna (Tywin also but in private) will kick Joffrey's ass if he dare to disrespect the Tyrells with marrying a second son that will not inherit nothing.

If you ask me, i think that Margarey being the little cunning rose (manipulative also) that she is, she would not only put the darling to her side (Showing Joffrey as a monster) but also she would put in joffrey's head the illusion that he is in charge of things (spoiler, he is not).

Olenna will help his niece in dealing with Joffrey (now she has two reasons to kill the little bastard) and the purple wedding will take place like the original. I don't think that a Tommen/Margarey poly with reader will take place, she would help her escape to highgarden to be safe (as a yandere she would be a very jealous person, so I don't see her sharing her precious darling to the lion kid, sorry Tommen) as she tried to do with Sansa, although this one will be successful.

[goodqueenaly]

do you think tywin ordered gregor to rape elia, or did he "just" order gregor to murder her brutually?

Does it matter?

Is Tywin absolved of guilt for Elia's death (and the horrific manner of it) if he did not literally say the words "ok Gregor, now when you get inside the Red Keep I want you to make sure you brutally rape Princess Elia before you murder her"? Does Tywin get to shift the blame entirely to Gregor, as he asserts to Tyrion, for the rape and murder of Elia, because, he, Tywin, "did not tell him to spare her"?

Whatever Tywin told Gregor with respect to Elia (and I tend to doubt Tywin's insistence that he did not personally want to take vengeance on Elia, given how petty and thin-skinned Tywin always was), Tywin undoubtedly sent a brutal, sadistic young knight (along with Amory Lorch, another brutal knight) to murder an infant in the care of that baby's own mother. Tywin picked Gregor Clegane specifically and gave at least that specific order. This was not a situation like, say, the northmen who murdered the tavern women along the Red Fork, where an independent loyalist band for a certain faction took it upon itself to commit horrific crimes against the (perceived) enemies of its faction (though even there, I think, the story very much wants readers to consider how those actions reflect on the nobility of Robb's faction); this was Tywin giving an order to a hand-picked soldier - a man who was "huge and terrible in battle" - to terrorize noncombatants and murder an infant. The blood was on Tywin's hands for Elia's death and the circumstances of it, just as much as it was on Gregor's (and just as it was on Amory Lorch's for the murder of Rhaenys).

This is a point that the story underlines again and again - Tywin cannot escape blame for his crimes simply because he raised his hands and said "well, I didn't swing the sword, I didn't say 'do xyz'". Think about his attempts to outsource his terror program in the Riverlands initially to Gregor Clegane, a clumsy ruse that Ned saw right through back in AGOT. Think about Tywin's facially hypocritical declaration to the small council in ASOS that he would give Prince Doran Martell "the justice Robert denied him for the murder of his sister Elia and her children", a ridiculous promise that Tyrion gleefully (if silently) mocked. Think about Tywin's flimsy excuse when Tyrion points out the breach of guest right at the Red Wedding - "The blood is on Walder Frey's hands, not mine" - and his distaste at Tyrion referring to his, Tywin's, "plotting" with Walder Frey for the massacre - a recognition that he, Tywin, was no better than Walder in breaching arguably the most fundamental Westerosi socio-political tradition to murder Robb Stark and his men. The horrific rape and murder of Elia Martell is no different: Tywin not only specifically empowered two bloodthirsty, terrible men to carry out the murders of innocent children with the full knowledge that their mother was living with them (and so every reason to expect her to fight for their survival), but chucked the dead Amory Lorch's body under the bus to explain Elia's murder explicitly so that his favorite attack dog Gregor could live to terrorize another day. What Gregor did, in Tywin's name and with at least some direction from Tywin, falls on Tywin too.

[wpmorse]

"They should all be put to the sword," Joffrey declared suddenly. "The Mallisters and Blackwoods and Brackens . . . all of them. They're traitors. I want them killed, Grandfather. I won't have any generous terms." The king turned to Grand Maester Pycelle. "And I want Robb Stark's head too. Write to Lord Frey and tell him. The king commands. I'm going to have it served to Sansa at my wedding feast." Tyrion - pg 714

We're getting to the point that even Tywin has trouble ignoring there might be a problem with Joffrey.

For some reason, Joffrey being giddy is far more terrifying than him being a sadistic little blankety-blank.

[tweedstoat]

What if Tywin died instead of Joanna?

Well several things change but firstly let's get this out of the way: I doubt someone who loved and was loved by Tywin and was taken into his confidences was a good person by any measure. I think Joanna could have certainly been better than Tywin but that's hardly a hard hurdle to clear.

I think it also depends when Tywin dies. Like before he has his kids? Before the whole rains of castamere situation?

Let's assume for the sake of the story that Tywin dies around where Joanna does in canon - right after the birth of Tyrion. Presumably the shock of having a son with dwarfism is so terrible to his ableist ass idk he falls down a flight of stairs.

- Jaime/Cersei have less of a chance to have a long relationship because Joanna is actively trying to keep them seperated. I think the twincest still happens but with far less frequency.

- Jaime ends up married to Elia which takes out basically the best marriage option for Rhaegar. Wether this would be a good thing for either party is debatable. I don't think Jaime would make anyone a very good husband and I doubt Elia is happy married to a kid who's like 8 years younger than she is. On the other hand she would wind up alive so success!

- Consequently it is possible Rhaegar ends up married to Cersei. Theres apparently no more girls left with a high enough status and (enough?) Targ blood because in canon we know Aerys considered Elia like a worst case scenario if Rhaegar didn't have a sister and if Steffons trip to Essos fell through. Maybe if Joanna uses Aerys weird fascination with her to push the marriage through?

- the debacle at Harrenhal still happens because i cant see Cersei having enough kids quickly enough to satisfy Rhaegar. Her children with Robert were fairly spaced out. I don't think Cersei would have been as miserable with Rhaegar as she was with Robert, because I don't think Rhaegar would physically abuse her but it wouldn't be the happy marriage she was envisioning. I also uh, don't see Cersei handling national humiliation with as much grace and equanimity as Elia did.

- now here would be the biggest divergence. Either Cersei fumes and shoves Lyanna down a well Melara Heatherspoon style or Joanna manages to control her daughter enough that this doesn't happen.

- If Lyanna manages to survive Cersei I think maybe it proceeds as canon did - so Lyanna dies in childbirth and Jon is passed off as Ned's son? Maybe since Ned's claiming of Jon seems to have fooled EVERYONE.

- Cersei obviously isn't brutally murdered by her own family for being Rhaegars widow but I could see her marrying Robert to legitimise Roberts reign. After that I think possibly the first daughter Cersei had with Rhaegar is married to her half brother (Cerseis child with Robert) to solidify Roberts line on the throne? Maybe if they can get away with the dyanstic incest? Idk how much people would be freaked out by a non targ engaging in incest.

- Cerseis other kids with Rhaegar are going to the faith sorry kids. I think the twincest still happens but I feel like Joanna would catch on after the first kid so it would be less Ned trying to crown Stannis and more Ned trying to crown a 5 yr old Baratheon!Tommen.

- I think Tyrion definitley doesn't wind up as abused as he was by Tywin (definitley no Tysha scenario here) but it's not a bed of roses. I think he would face quite serious emotional abuse by Joanna too. He probably also ends up in the faith with the whole "look after your half targ nephews/neices and don't shame us" thing.

Tl:dr Joanna has many of the same political aims as Tywin but executes them with more finesse because she isn't a sexual sadist

[gojuo]

Tell us now your top 5 most hated characters on ASOAIF and F&B please!

My no.1 most hated ASOIAF character is Tywin Lannister. I hate this man. I hate him very much. I wish he would go away and die somewhere where he will inconvenience no one but the vultures. I loathe his manner. I loathe his style. I loathe the fact that he dares draw breath in a world where my loved ones do not or rather cannot because he murdered them. I loathe that he was rewarded for behavior which, in-universe, he should have been quartered for. I want him dead. I want to kill him and destroy him. I want him died. #SCENE #ANGER #FUCK #DIE #HATERED

There is not a single ounce — not even a miniscule amount ­— of sympathy I have for this scumbag. Not a single thing likeable about him. Not a single redeeming quality he has to his name. From the first moment he showed up on page until the very last mention of him, he was nothing short of disgusting. He is diabolical, satanic, monstrous, loathsome, ghoulish, sadistic, cruel, insert every single synonym of the term demonic here, etc. etc. I hate him. I hate him I hate him I hate him I hate him.

The whole “Yeah he’s evil uwu but Charles Dance is so granddaddy I can fix him <3" sales pitch this low IQ fandom has been pushing since the dawn of that accursed adaptation on top of it all only makes the intense disgust I hold for him so much fucking worse. Tywin Lannister has no conscience, no charisma, no morals, and he has no honor — all of that in an un-sexy way, one of the greatest crimes a villain with no traumatic backstory could objectively ever commit. Never mind the beyond immoral execution of the Red Wedding (“Machiavellian” my ass. Any stupid fool who says this crap needs to go back to elementary school in order to relearn how to read and how to interpret literature and themes in literature right the fuck now), never mind the severe mental torture he’s put his own flesh and blood through to the point where two of them are in a destructive incestuous relationship with each other and the other pushed to the point of patricide, this monster had his son's fourteen-year-old little child-wife gangraped by his guards, had each of them give her a silver coin after one was done with her, then had thirteen-year-old Tyrion rape her last and, contrary to the others, give her a gold coin because “Lannisters are worth more”. All because she was a common-born little girl who dared to marry the disabled son he hated so much. Am I supposed to think this piece of shit falls under the sexy evil category of villains? What sad backstory does this trash have to his name that would woobify him enough to “if villain bad why sexy” him? His father had a few mistresses after his mother died and gave them gifts and cared for them? Was that the tragic past of his that elevated him enough for people to wash their conscience clean so to cross moral boundaries all to lust after this so-called “sexy villain”? Tywin Lannister had his father’s mistress, who was nothing but a poor common-born daughter of a candle-maker, stripped naked and paraded through the streets of Lannisport for two whole goddamn weeks, and forced her to tell every man she came across that she was a thief and a whore, quite alike to what he did to Tysha as well. This man hates women. I cannot stress this enough, like Tywin Lannister hates women. And not just women, but especially commoner women. His modus operandi is inflicting sadistic sexual violence on any and all women he doesn’t like (which is like, all of them). As a true “if villain bad then why sexy” connoisseur and quite frankly, the president of the club, this man is not, never was and never will be a part of that esteemed category of villains.

And you know something that’s a veeery personal ick of mine — and this is really the icing on the cake for me — is shit-for-brains dickriders of this ghoul having the gall to pretend like he did not explicitly order the murder of Elia and her babies, that he apparently just “let” Clegane and Lorch loose on them. These low IQ fucks know what that demon did to his father’s poor mistress and what he did to little Tysha, and then somehow they still think this sadist with a severely fragile ego did not tell Clegane and Lorch to do what they did to her with his own mouth? Any waste-of-space who parrots this BNF-drivel (all said in order to minimize what happened to Elia, Rhaenys and the baby in place for Aegon) is not only going on my blocklist like immediately, they also need to die. Respectfully.

Now, I mostly spoke on his character from a moral standpoint, but I want to make clear that this loser’s shortcomings aren’t only morality-based. All the shit-for-brains stans this demon has know he has no morals so they always deflect to the “b-b-but he’s a military genius, that’s why I like him, I’m so edgy!!!” excuse and I want to emphasize how fucking stupid you have to be to believe Tywin is anything but brainless. AFFC is literally right there. GRRM’s explicitly spells out to the reader through Jaime’s POV how fucking stupid Tywin was in everything that he did. How the only show of military genius this demon had was through being nothing but a bully. All his work unraveled the second he died. He built nothing, and he will go down in history as nothing. That’s why his one and only legacy will always be that he got murdered on the shitter by his own son, like the fucking loser that he is.

I hate this fucking character with every fiber of my being.

On number 2 stands Aerys II Targeryen. Do I even need to explain this? What I said about Tywin applies to this racist, rapist, fascist piece of shit as well. I’m not going to waste my time and money psychoanalyzing this bottom-of-the-barrel trash. Aerys is the pinnacular culmination of three hundred years of Targaryen delusion, self-worship, egotism and five thousand years of Valyrian hubris, god-complex, and megalomania. Him and his daughter both, but I’ll get to her in a minute. This man’s lucky he’s only got 2 stans — and those two are only stanning just to be contrarians — unlike Tywin, who’s got an actual dedicated fanbase. Ugh. Two peas in a pod. One edge he has over Tywin is that at the very least Aerys has some sort of tragic backstory that’s actually valid. Too bad for him idgaf. Pour one out for Rhaella :(

My third most hated is ... Daenerys. Man… How do I even open this can of worms… I’ve a whole tag dedicated to hating her, soooo awkwardly waves hand in that direction. Everything about Daenerys is just so … racist. Racist on an in-universe level, racist on a meta level and racist on a fandom level, so I was never going to like Daenerys no matter what. The fact that she has the most insane and delusional and downright disgusting fanbase ever in all of media history really doesn’t help her case. If they hadn’t been this rabid and racist, then I don’t think I would have hated her this much. Because then I could’ve just had her character be as she is: the Paul Astreides of the series. A false Messiah, basically. The meta-level racism (GRRM making every single antagonist in her plotline nothing but walking, talking Reel Bad Arabs tropes; the use of POV trap which leads to none of the brown and black supporting characters in her story having a voice; GRRM’s own racism as in exotic-erotic tropes for all of the Essosi people, really badly researched POC cultures he based the Essosi off of, using brown and black people as nothing but props for the main white girl) and Daenerys’ in-universe racism (conquering and colonizing lands and peoples; white saviorism; imperialism; her hypocritical use of slavery) would still be there, of course, and I still would not have been able to stomach it meaning I still would not have rooted for her in any way, but then at the very least I would not have been subjected to a long decade of fandom racism being justified through the excuse of her freeing slaves from evil Reel Bad Arabs (spoiler alert: she is not freeing anybody).

Ugh, I don’t wanna talk about her. Everything about her from her character to the plot and storyline and her place in the narrative is downright insulting to me as a WOC, and quite frankly, any WOC that lays down their lives to defend this girl baffles me. Like, stop it. Please have some self-respect.

Then comes Jaehaerys the Old King. Father and inventor of misogyny. It’s crazy.

No. 5 is Rhaenys I and Daeron I the Young Dragon. EVERY TONGUE THAT RISES AGAINST THE DORNISH SHALL FALL!!!

[gulnarsultan]

Okay, okay, okay I know why everyone calls Jaime the Kingslayer but imagine that Modern Reader got that nickname. I’ve read scenarios where Yandere Rhaella was violent and sadistic and an idea appeared in my mind. What if Modern Reader was a Queenslayer?

Just imagine: after many years of sexual and physical abuse and humiliation Modern Reader felt from the Queen, Modern Reader wanted all of this to stop. She wanted to stop the Queen humiliating and hurting her family (Tywin, Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion), she wanted to stop Aerys II, she wanted to stop all this pain. As much as Modern Reader was hurt by the Queen, she stood strong, she stood strong for her family, “My Sweet girl, I’m sorry for leaving you alone, but I promise I’ll return to you. I promise you, all this nightmare would be over. We will be together, at Casterly Rock, we will walk around the coast like we used to. And no one, no one will hurt you. My sweet child, I promise you we will see each other again.”- yandere platonic Joanna said that to Modern Reader hugging her and holding her close with tears in her eyes before she left. And she didn’t return. So one night at Queen’s chambers Modern Reader was standing there holding a knife behind her back, but she was confused because she doesn’t see Yandere Rhaella. “Looking for me, Sweet girl?🗡️😏- Yandere Rhaella asks standing right behind Reader holding her dagger. Modern Reader turns around and looks at the Queen’s eyes “You will pay for this Rhaella. You raped me, you tortured me. You hurted my family, my mother didn’t die because of the blood lose during her labour, it was you. You killed her.”😡🤬

Yandere Rhaella circling Reader (you know like predator circles around the prey): Clever girl, you’re right. I did this. I killed Joanna and not this disgusting dwarf. After your first time, I sent your mother a letter and a gift.

Modern Reader holding a knife 🔪 squeezing a handle on it with anger and hurt: What gift?

Yandere Rhaella smiles wildly and crazy look: A gift that was poisonous to her… That’s right, Sweet girl. Joanna, sweet innocent Joanna, your mother who tried so hard to protect you died by a poisonous letter that I sent her. Perhaps the news that you “turned into a woman” shocked her so much that she died. Such a shame that your father didn’t realise that. But don’t worry, when I’ll done with you, I’ll make you watch as your family dies. I’ll make you watch as your father and brothers will burn in wildfire, as for your precious little sister.

Modern Reader stays quiet. Yandere Dark Rhaella replies “You will watch as I’ll torture your little sister, you will hear her cries and screams and then the guards would fuck her like a whore, filling her cunt as you watch.”😈

With these words Modern Reader launched at her attacking her with a knife and the fight between the Queen and Modern Reader began…

After some time later Modern Reader was on top of Rhaella stabbing her with dagger again and again and again, while Yandere Dark Rhaella was laughing like a maniac. Modern Reader stopped as she watches Queen’s body covered in blood and her chest stopped rising and falling, the last words she heard from the Queen terrified her, “you are a monster”. The next thing happened the doors opened and there were Eddard Stark, Robert Baratheon and Jaime Lannister, they are horrified by the view: Modern Reader with wounds covered in blood, holding a bloody dagger 🗡️ standing next to the Rhaella’s dead body. “QUEENSLAYER!”- Modern Reader heard.

That’s it, phew. That was sad, violent and scary scenario. Modern Reader killed The Queen with dagger, the same dagger that was used by the Queen to threaten Joanna and for Reader’s punishment, and now the Queen died by her weapon and by the one who she hurted the most. Viserys 3 and Daenerys escaped from Westeros. Now there’s a Kingslayer and a Queenslayer, Modern Reader would be judged by the most people, because everyone thought that the Queen was a victim and innocent and she was murdered by Modern Reader who was serving her. But soon everyone would know what happened to Modern Reader and House Lannister. Soon, but for a time Modern Reader would be heavily judged by others than Jaime, although Modern Reader doesn’t care, she saved her family and that’s what matters to her.

Jaime killed the Mad King in order to stop him from killing millions and destroying Kings Landing. Modern Reader killed The Queen in order to stop her from hurting and killing her family. “She hurted me and she was raping me for more than ten years. She said that after she would deal with me, she would make me watch as my father and my brothers die by wildfire. She’ll make me watch as she would hurt my sister, as I would hear her screams and watch as she would be raped by the guards and I won’t be able to save her. She killed my mother, Lady Joanna Lannister. She did this. I-I wanted to stop her. I wanted her to pay for what she’s done to me and my family. I just, I wanted to protect them.🥺😥”- Modern Reader would say this words when she’ll be asked. How would yandere platonic Tywin, Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion react to hear these words and to what would happen to them, if Modern Reader didn’t stop the Queen? How would they react when Modern Reader killed the Queen? Can you write their feelings and thoughts and how would they react that Joanna died because she was poisoned by the Queen?

I wonder how would Ned and Robert with their families react to hear that?

You've turned the scenario I always had in mind into reality. I was thinking that one day the reader would really come to the point where he couldn't bear it anymore and that he would kill Rhaella. Everyone would condemn the reader at first. However, thanks to the facts that emerged from the trial in a short time, the true face of Rhaella and what she did are revealed. The Lannisters are shocked when they learn that Rhaella was behind Joanna's death. Tywin is committed to finding and hunting any remaining Targaryens. Tywin feels so bad for not being able to protect his wife. Cersei and Jaime don't know how to feel when they find out that their mother is actually the Queen. The Lannisters feel very angry and offended. The Lannisters are so sorry and remorseful that the reader has suffered so much. They will be surprised that the reader killed the Queen. Because the reader is never the type to hurt anyone. However, according to them, the reader thinks that he gave Rhaella the punishment she deserved. They will defend the reader to the end. Most likely Robert and Ned will defend reader.

[samieree]

Born in Flames || Game of Thrones

OC x ?😏

-> Chapter III "Dragons are extinct"

Chapter IV ''Flames''

In the evening, she still didn't tell the maid what she found in the basement. She preferred to keep silent about it until she decided what to do.

She also wondered about her dream - the sight of the capital captured by someone, and then that woman on fire... Was it some kind of sign, message for her? Until she puts these thoughts in her head, it's better that she doesn't take any action.

"Selaria!" she shouted suddenly, touching her loose hair. "Find Ser Barristan and tell him I want to see him in the gardens." she said as soon as the maid entered the chamber. In fact, as quickly as she entered she left, and Visenya was left alone again.

She went to the wardrobe to take out a dark coat, which she then put on. Before she decided anything, she had to ask him what it all meant. Why did he give her the egg and what is she supposed to do with it?

Immediately after putting on the cloak, she left the chamber and carefully, avoiding the guards as much as possible, went to the castle gardens, starting to slowly walk through them. What did she actually want to say? Ask him everything directly, without worrying that someone might overhear them? And will Ser Barristan be able to come at all? After all, he might be on guard duty somewhere and he won't just leave it for some stupid conversation with her...

"My queen..."

She turned around very quickly when she heard that. Opening her eyes wider, she looked at ser Barristan, who bowed slightly to her.

"What are you saying, ser? I am no queen, you can even lose your life for such statements." she looked around the garden slightly panicked to see if there was anyone there, but fortunately she only saw Selaria standing nearby and looking out to see if anyone was coming.

"I knew your father, I was friends with him..." he began. "And I know you shouldn't be so afraid of who you are, who you could be." she sighed heavily, pinching the bridge of her nose with her fingers and closing her eyes.

"I have no family, no support... The war is over, I want... I just want to live normally, at home." she explained quite calmly.

"At home? Do you really think they'll let you stay here?" she removed her hand from her nose and crossed her arms over her chest. "Lord Tywin Lannister will marry you off at the first opportunity."

"He won't do it because no one will want me." she shrugged.

It was obvious to her, no one would want a "princess" from an overthrown dynasty. What would such a marriage give him? What's more, she is almost in no way connected with the Lannisters,  what counts most is blood ties - and of course she had none. Well, except Martells.

"There will always be some sadist who will pay a lot for a pretty face." she looked away from him, disgusted. "Forgive me this directness, Your Grace, but this is unfortunately the way of the world."

Visenya didn't answer.

What was she supposed to say? It was obvious that she couldn't stop him from calling her names, no matter what she said. She was only afraid that someone would overhear all this and report them, and she would only get punished unnecessarily. She didn't even want to ask the question, she was already perfectly aware of his goal - he wanted her to fight for what was taken from her.

But how was she supposed to do it? Without any support, without family? She had nothing. No army, no lands, no wealth... How did he think she could do that, with words? It's laughable... And sitting in King's Landing, locked up, she won't be able to magically conjure up all this (although even if she could travel freely around Westeros, it wouldn't be that easy, if not impossible).

Is it so bad that she wanted to live in peace? No problems, no quarrels... She managed to come to terms with the fact that everything had been taken away from her. Now she was supposed to start fighting for it?

"Your Grace..." he began quietly, moving a little closer to her. "I'm leaving soon, I know perfectly well that they want to send me away anyway - I won't give them the satisfaction. And I can take you out of here."

"What...?!" she almost couldn't hold back a scream. She immediately looked up at Barristan. "No, it's... It's impossible..."

"There is a way to get past the guards... You can't just give in to them, no matter how much they have stripped you of who you are over the years." she sighed quietly.

Could he be right? Should she fight, despite such low chances?

"I can't, not now." she said quite confidently. "Thank you for everything, but..." she turned and pointed at the Red Keep. "This is my home, my place in the world."

"A house that isn't yours." she decided not to comment on it and there was a longer moment of silence. "Then you need to find..."

"My Lady...!" Selaria suddenly ran up to her, out of breath. "Ser Jaime is coming here, quickly..." she gasped. Before she could say anything else, Ser Barristan was gone. But within a minute Jaime Lannister appeared next to them.

"What are you doing here, my Lady?"

"Something happened?" Visenya asked as if nothing had happened, as she just went on a walk.

"Stannis Baratheon attacked the capital. You are not safe here."

* * *

She didn't like at all that her conversation had been interrupted like that. It's true that she didn't have much to say anymore, but still... And now? She sat in one room with the servants and the queen, while the defense of the walls took place outside.

She sat against the wall, once again refusing wine from the maid. She watched the girls standing in a circle and praying.

One day she might have joined them, but she stopped believing in Gods a long time ago. What did they give her? They definitely took more than gave, not listening to any of her prayers, they did not even fully fulfill her request to come back home. After all, she is not the lady of her castle, she is only a guest, an unwanted one.

And she didn't even know what Tywin's plans were for her.

"Maegelle, child, come here." she suddenly heard. She immediately looked towards Cersei Lannister, who was calling her name. She rose from her seat and walked over to the queen, sitting down where she indicated. "You won't pray?" she nodded towards the circle of girls, sipping some wine.

"No, Your Grace." she shook her head. "I don't believe that the Gods want to help anyone."

"I think so too." Visenya was genuinely surprised to hear this. Cersei just admitted she was right about something? "If they were merciful towards everyone, they wouldn't be Gods, would they? But just look at them, I'm surprised myself, but I don't want to take away their hopes..." Cersei sighed heavily. While Vis turned to look at the circle of girls, Cersei ordered wine to be poured into another goblet and held it out to the young Targaryen. "Especially the red-haired one, it's Sansa Stark. She is so naive and innocent in her childishness."

"Isn't she that rebel's sister?" of course, she knew the answer to this question, but as she took the cup from the queen, she wanted to say something.

"Yes, and my dear Joffrey still wants to marry her." Cersei shook her head, as if in disbelief. "Beauty can easily confuse men. You, for example, you are beautiful." she smiled at the silver-haired girl, seemingly kindly, but with a hint of contempt, watching her sip her wine. "You probably don't know this, but many people came to my father to ask for your hand in marriage soon after they saw you. But he always refused them before they even finished talking..." she snorted, ordering Vis and herself to pour more wine before continuing. "I always wondered: Why? Why doesn't he just let you go somewhere with your new husband and start a family? I finally understood it. He always had a candidate for you."

"E-excuse me?" she didn't really know how to react to these words.

Tywin Lannister always knew who he would marry her to? There were people willing to marry her?

But the better question was: Who was it about? Who was Tywin's "chosen one"? She was a little afraid to know the answer to this question, but at the same time she was very curious. Just like when he was going to marry her off and where she would have to go. The fact that she didn't want to get married at all was another problem.

"For some time I didn't know who it was either and I thought about various options for a long time... But the answer recently came to me, although I thought it was all just a bad dream." hearing such words, Visenya held her breath and was unable to drink the rest of the wine. "Do you want to know who will put children in you unless the capital falls?" Cersei raised an eyebrow.

"Who...?"

"My darling, goddamn, twin brother." she replied, keeping her piercing gaze on the silver-haired woman and drinking the rest of the wine at once.

When Cersei heard this from Jaime, she thought it was another bad joke. But then he showed her a letter from their father and she realized he wasn't joking. And that was actually the worst thing, even though she thought her brother wouldn't agree to something like that, he didn't comment on it in any way.

Vis didn't respond to this in any way. She stared into her wine and tried hard not to think about what she had just heard.

She never thought Tywin would want to marry her off, especially to his son. She lived peacefully with the thought that she would be able to live in the capital, in her home, for the rest of her life. As she could see, life changed her plans once again.

For the rest of Stannis' attack, she only exchanged a few casual words with Cersei, not even looking at her much. As soon as she could return to the chamber with Selaria, she did just that, but she quickly told her to leave and bring some dinner.

In fact, she just wanted to be alone. She still hadn't digested what the queen had told her and couldn't imagine herself as Jaime Lannister's wife...

Maybe she should escape from the capital? Leave it all behind and... But where exactly was she supposed to run to? What was she supposed to do with herself after all, she had no one... Besides, the dream she had recently experienced was still floating around in her mind. She wondered if it had any greater significance and why it appeared at such a moment.

What if this was some kind of sign...?

And anyway - what does he actually have to lose?

She got up from the bed and, while she was still alone, picked up one of the candles that lit her room and began to slowly approach the window. Looking at the flame, she brought it closer to the light curtain. She didn't have to wait long for the material to catch fire. She dropped the candle on the floor and, not paying attention to the fire spreading, went for the egg she found in the basements under the castle.

She pulled it out from among the folds of fabric in her trunk and decided to do the same as the girl in her dream. Allow the flames to engulf the egg.

Visenya paid no attention to the fact that everything around her was burning. Dress began to turn into ashes, furniture that could never serve her again - it didn't matter at all. Nothing was truly hers, everything was given to her by fate, and she didn't really feel good anywhere.

Holding the egg in her hands and bringing it close to the burning curtains, she looked at the fire that was all around her. She thought it would be different, that the smoke would choke her, that the flames touching her skin would burn her, that her body would eventually start to burn.

She honestly thought she would die this way, although something made her think otherwise. Suddenly, apart from the sound of the fire consuming everything, she heard some frantic footsteps outside the door. At that moment she felt some movement on her hand.

The flames were slowly burning her dress while she was completely focused on the eggshell that was starting to fall apart. She was fascinated by it, looking at it with amazement, especially when she finally saw a small creature, very similar to the one she had seen in her dream.

"Maegelle?!" she heard right after the door to her room opened with a bang. By then a little dragon had already managed to climb up her arm and snuggle against her breast. She turned slowly, looking with surprise on her face (though Selaria was even more shocked) at the maid. "You have to get out of here..." despite the simultaneous shock and terror, the maid reacted quickly. She took off her cloak and, leading Vis out of the room, untouched by the flames, put it on her. She pulled it forward so much as to cover the dragon nestled into the girl. "Wait here, my lady... I'll immediately inform guards about the fire." saying this, she left her in front of the chamber, running alone along the corridor.

"Just like in my dream..." Visenya whispered to herself, looking under the coat for a moment, where, apart from the slightly burnt dress, she saw a white-scaled dragon that seemed to be taking a nap in her embrace, well hidden under the coat.

~

-> Chapter V "I'll take what is mine" -> general masterlist -> Game of Thrones/House of the Dragon masterlist

[atopvisenyashill]

What if Cersei was born a boy like she wishes?

Caveat that I am well aware I am not the Cersei Understander and also I haven't read her chapters in literal years (but i'm getting there!!! like halfway through a storm of swords!) but-

She would have gotten the training she wanted wrt ruling and would be just as (in)effective as Tywin because she'd be 100% willing to be as brutal, to the detriment of the wellbeing of her family.

I imagine Tyrion has it much worse going up - Cersei can only disrespect him so much as first born daughter, but as the actual first born son? Some of her more sadistic tendencies are likely to be encouraged. Same goes for Jaime - would they get involved if they're both men? Certainly they can't have kids (bc we're going off of a cis swap here) but given the weird psychsexual stuff with Jaime's trauma re: knighthood and Lannisters being "worth more" it's entirely possible that a male Cersei would play into this idea of them being born perfect mirrors of each other, that they're meant to be side by side always, that Jaime is meant to follow and serve as Cersei's right hand his whole life, in a similar way that Daemon acts towards Viserys or how people theorize Aemon and Baelon may have acted around each other. Might not get overtly sexual but as a bisexual Jaime truther it might get very charged.

But...there's just sooo much plot that changes because Cersei being confined to a certain role because of her gender and deciding to deal with it by taking down her entire house and half the continent is pivotal to the story plot. So Tywin has no girl to marry to Rhaegar which means he isn't going to get in his feelings about Aerys rejecting Cersei. He's definitely going to still reject Elia for Cersei though, and Loreza Martell probably still decides to go for Rhaegar anyway. I know the initial marriage proposal between Lysa and Jaime was rejected specifically because of Cersei. If male Cersei marries Lysa that's...certainly a pairing that's going to cause a lot of damage, not to mention affect the war. With Tywin being a Targ loyalist until the end and Hoster very early on joining the rebels, does Hoster hedge his bets a bit more or keep Cersei as a hostage to get Tywin to cooperate with the rebels? Does Cersei herself decide to take charge (given she'd be around Robb's age, so it's not impossible they'd let her lead) and join her wife's side of the war? Does Jaime decide to sabatoge the marriage because "if we can't marry you can't marry anyone then" ?

However, the biggest change is actually Jaime - does he still join the Kingsguard if its his BROTHER he's obsessed with and not his sister? Does KL just go kaboom in this timeline because Jaime isn't there to kill Aerys, because Aerys didn't bother to attempt to steal Tywin's heir through the Kingsguard? Does CERSEI play Jaime's role instead? Because Cersei being the one in the kingsguard would be interesting but I'm just not sure HOW she would get there - it's not going to bring her closer to Jaime, there's no female Targ or Targ descendent for her to marry (because Rhaelle has a son and it's likely Daelle and Rhae both only had sons as well).

One things for sure - Cersei and Tywin would be happier about it but everyone else is gonna suffer big time, haha.

[maid-with-sunset-in-her-hair]

What do you think blood oranges generally implied in books? While they are mostly associated with Dorne, they are also mentioned in Sansa chapters twice and once in Cersei.

I'm so sorry for taking so long to answer, anon, I was studying for my finals 😔 Hope the long answer makes up for it!

In Sansa's case the blood oranges seem to foreshadow war and the suffering of innocent people. Before Arya threw the blood orange to Sansa and stained her white dress, they were talking about Ned sending Beric Dondarrion and others to stop Tywin's atrocities:

The Tower of the Hand seemed so empty after they left that Sansa was even pleased to see Arya when she went down to break her fast. "Where is everyone?" her sister wanted to know as she ripped the skin from a blood orange. "Did Father send them to hunt down Jaime Lannister?" Sansa sighed. "They rode with Lord Beric, to behead Ser Gregor Clegane." She turned to Septa Mordane, who was eating porridge with a wooden spoon. "Septa, will Lord Beric spike Ser Gregor's head on his own gate or bring it back here for the king?" She and Jeyne Poole had been arguing over that last night. The septa was horror-struck. "A lady does not discuss such things over her porridge. Where are your courtesies, Sansa? I swear, of late you've been near as bad as your sister." "What did Gregor do?" Arya asked. "He burned down a holdfast and murdered a lot of people, women and children too." Arya screwed up her face in a scowl. "Jaime Lannister murdered Jory and Heward and Wyl, and the Hound murdered Mycah. Somebody should have beheaded them." "It's not the same," Sansa said. "The Hound is Joffrey's sworn shield. Your butcher's boy attacked the prince." "Liar," Arya said. Her hand clenched the blood orange so hard that red juice oozed between her fingers. "Go ahead, call me all the names you want," Sansa said airily. "You won't dare when I'm married to Joffrey. You'll have to bow to me and call me Your Grace." She shrieked as Arya flung the orange across the table. It caught her in the middle of the forehead with a wet squish and plopped down into her lap. "You have juice on your face, Your Grace," Arya said. It was running down her nose and stinging her eyes. Sansa wiped it away with a napkin. When she saw what the fruit in her lap had done to her beautiful ivory silk dress, she shrieked again. "You're horrible," she screamed at her sister. "They should have killed you instead of Lady!"(AGOT Sansa III)

The blood orange appears in a conversation centered around the innocent killed by the Lannisters: the holdfast's people killed by Clegane because Tywin can't solve problems without violence, Jaime throwing a murderous tantrum because he's angry his actions have consequences, Sandor murdering Mycah with sadistic glee and Cersei ordering Lady's death because she's more interested in getting revenge than getting justice. Both sisters get bloody orange juice on them, but while hands and faces can be washed off, the white dress Cersei gifted Sansa is permanently stained. She'll need to dye it black to hide the stain.

The next time they appear, Sansa and Littlefinger are eating fruit while talking about Joffrey's murder:

"Did I say that?" Lord Petyr cut the blood orange in two with his dagger and offered half to Sansa. "The lads are far too treacherous to be part of any such scheme... and Osmund has become especially unreliable since he joined the Kingsguard. That white cloak does things to a man, I find. Even a man like him." He tilted his chin back and squeezed the blood orange, so the juice ran down into his mouth. "I love the juice but I loathe the sticky fingers," he complained, wiping his hands. "Clean hands, Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean." Sansa spooned up some juice from her own orange. "But if it wasn't the Kettleblacks and it wasn't Ser Dontos... you weren't even in the city, and it couldn't have been Tyrion..." (ASOS Sansa VI)

Littlefinger lied about Tyrion being the owner of the dagger, causing a chain of events that ended with Tywin attacking the Riverlands, and then he convinced Joffrey to execute Ned, causing the War of the Five Kings. If the juice symbolizes blood, Littlefinger loving and drinking it is a metaphor to how he benefited from the war and violence, gaining titles and power. The fact that Sansa drinks the juice with a spoon, keeping her hands clean, probably symbolizes that she will benefit from the war without commiting any crimes herself, which makes sense if her endgame is to be the Queen of the North and Riverlands.

The context surrounding the blood orange in Cersei's chapter is a bit different. The scene right before the fruit appears is about Cersei talking to Pycelle, ordering him to make her a potion to help her sleep and have no dreams about Maggy the Frog. She notices the damage that weeks of imprisionment had on him, and also asks him how old he is and lowkey threatens to fire him. As he's leaving, she can't help herself and asks him about prophecies:

"Good. You may go." As he turned toward the door, though, she called him back. "One more thing. What does the Citadel teach concerning prophecy? Can our morrows be foretold?" The old man hesitated. One wrinkled hand groped blindly at his chest, as if to stroke the beard that was not there. "Can our morrows be foretold?" he repeated slowly. "Mayhaps. There are certain spells in the old books... but Your Grace might ask instead, 'Should our morrows be foretold?' And to that I should answer, 'No.' Some doors are best left closed." "See that you close mine as you leave." She should have known that he would give her an answer as useless as he was. The next morning she broke her fast with Tommen. The boy seemed much subdued; ministering to Pate had served its purpose, it would seem. They ate fried eggs, fried bread, bacon, and some blood oranges newly come by ship from Dorne. Her son was attended by his kittens. As she watched the cats frolic about his feet, Cersei felt a little better. No harm will ever come to Tommen whilst I still live. She would kill half the lords in Westeros and all the common people, if that was what it took to keep him safe. "Go with Jocelyn," she told the boy after they had eaten. (AFFC Cersei VIII)

She doesn't tell Pycelle about the prophecy, or gives him any details, so he logically assumes Cersei wants a way to see the future and tries to dissuade her from that. The next day she and Tommen eat blood oranges from Dorne, the country who hates her family and has her daughter hostage. She notices that her son seems sad after she forced him to torture Pate under threat of having Pate mutilated, and then hypocritically thinks about how she would kill half of Westeros' population to keep him safe from harm. Not to mention how Tommen's kittens have been linked to Rhaeny's murder.

Right after breakfast, she calls Qyburn to ask him if Lady Falyse is still alive, but unfortunately she was tortured too much and can't help Cersei fix her political mistakes. She quickly convinces herself that Lady Falyse is better off dead after her beloved husband died. Their conversation quickly becomes about how to stop Maggy's prophecy by murdering Margarey, and how she can't rely on Jaime to kill people for her anymore.

So maybe Cersei and Tommen eating blood oranges just symbolizes how they benefited from war, but the constant references to torture, death and prophecy are very noticeable.

Blood oranges also symbolize parenting fails in the series, which doesn't contradict this post, because Littlefinger is a pedophile grooming his "daughter" and Cersei forced her son to torture another boy when he tried to protect his wife from harm.

[hacked-wtsdz]

The Starks have had terrible things happen to their family but all of that happened for some explainable reasons. It was coherent. Ned stark endangered cersei, bran saw cersei and Jaime together, Robb and Catelyn were betrayed for money. Rickon was killed because Ramsay was a little sadistic bitch. But the Lannisters?? Their mother died giving birth to Tyrion only for Tyrion to kill their father. Joffrey was poisoned at his own wedding, and we see the parallels between the red wedding of course, but the fucked up thing is that his death had nothing to do with the Starks. Myrcella was poisoned (like Jon Arryn was poisoned), and also Oberyn’s weapon was poisoned, and she died in her father’s arms, for the first time giving Jaime acceptance, despite it being acceptance of incest. Tommen threw himself out of the window for the organisation that kept his mother captive. Tywin, the proud man and the richest man, is killed on the toilet. Jaime loses his hand to the Boltons, kinda reminiscent of the way Theon is tortured by the Boltons, but then the particular hand situation also has nothing to do with the Starks, it was because he was behaving like a Lannister in hopes of saving Brienne. It’s like they are cursed, just like Cersei says in season two “maybe this is the price we pay for what we’ve done, for our sins”. For all the killings, but also Jaime pushed a kid out of a tower. Jaime fucked Cersei literally on the body of their own dead son. Everything that happens to the Starks is tragic, but whatever happens to the Lannisters is deeply disturbing.

[warsofasoiaf]

Why would Aerys travel to Duskendale with only one kingsguard?

At that point, he was doing everything to spite Tywin. Tywin had rejected the charter proposal for Duskendale before? Well now, Aerys was going to take charge and show he was the big top dog. And why would he need more than one Kingsguard? After all, he's the king, he's the one who decides it all.

Also, let's remember, even though he became more sadistic and brutal after the Defiance of Duskendale, he was prone to wild flights of fancy beforehand, so expecting purely rational behavior is not always the best course of action for him.

Thanks for the question, Kendall.

SomethingLikeALawyer, Hand of the King

[goodqueenaly]

It’s like poetry something something but also comparing and contrasting Dontos Hollard being saved as a boy and Dontos Hollard being saved as an adult.

Dontos Hollard owes his salvation as a child not just to Ser Barristan Selmy, but specifically Barristan Selmy’s commitment to his own conception of knighthood. It was not simply that Barristan’s ironclad belief in his duty as a knight of the Kingsguard - such that he volunteered to rescue the king - prevented Tywin’s plan of razing Duskendale (perhaps with young Dontos Hollard inside, if he had been there). With the boy Dontos, Ser Barristan demonstrated his belief in an even more fundamental knightly charge than that of his Kingsguard vows - that is, to “defend the young and innocent”, as Lyonel Baratheon commanded of young Raymun Fossoway at the time of the latter’s knighting (a core virtue for Barristan, as evidenced by his later horror at the murders of Rhaegar’s children and the suggestion of killing the Meereenese child hostages). Dontos Hollard the child would presumably have meant nothing to Barristan; indeed, as the nephew of Ser Symon Hollard, who had slain Ser Gwayne Gaunt of the Kingsguard during the Defiance, Dontos might have appeared to Barristan as the heir of that past wrong, and so a fitting outlet for vengeance (just as Barristan had himself slain Symon, thus avenging his sworn brother). Yet Barristan called for Dontos to be spared anyway; Dontos’ identity as an innocent child appears to have mattered to Barristan far more than his so recently traitorous (and for Barristan, personally antagonistic) familial connections.

Of course, Barristan did not go quite so far as to challenge the order of a king now consumed by paranoia and a mania for violence. Rather, Ser Barristan couched his obedience to his chivalric charge in similarly knightly terms - begging young Dontos’ life as a “boon” which a grateful king could grant to this sterling knight who had done him such a service (compare, say, the would-be king Renly’s ceremonial grant of a boon to the melee champion Brienne, or the would-be king Joffrey’s likewise formal offer of a boon to the the knightly Tyrell sons after “[t]he roses [had] support[ed] the lion” at the Blackwater). In this moment completely devoid of chivalric courtesy - the ruthless, near absolute destruction and damnatio memoriae of two noble dynasties in the aftermath of a hostage crisis and siege - Dontos’ one hope rested with the promise of knighthood. Handed back his life as a knight’s boon, Dontos was allowed to journey to King’s Landing to serve as a squire, with the promise of a knighthood of his own one day. If there could never be (certainly not under Aerys II) a return of House Hollard to its pre-Defiance standing, Dontos’ knighthood might at least have restored some sense of personal dynastic honor; Dontos could, so it might have been presumed, live out his life as the sort of deposed but genteel knight Jaime imagines Edmure becoming in AFFC. Knighthood, in other words, both immediate and promised, comes to the rescue for the boy Dontos Hollard.

As an adult, Dontos Hollard finds himself again needing rescue from the murderous whims of a violent, sadistic king - but his salvation comes in a form far different from that he had experienced as a child. Summoned to the lists for Joffrey’s namely tourney - if no grand event, at least ostensibly more peaceful and chivalric than the Defiance of Duskendale - Ser Dontos appears as a foolish, indeed obscene drunk; only his horse maintains any sort aristocratic dignity, its “swirl of crimson and scarlet silks” denoting the barry gules and rose of House Hollard’s sigil, as Dontos himself stumbles half-naked around the yard. The promise of knighthood as his childhood salvation has soured badly: Ser Dontos may have the formal title of knight, but in his utter failure to make even the barest showing at that core knightly sport, the joust (and against a freerider, of the lowest class of knight often scorned by blue-blooded Westerosi chivalry), Dontos has hardly demonstrated himself a knight in practice.  

Yet Dontos is saved from the king’s command for his death - not by a knight, but by a facially un-knightly expression of true knighthood. Indeed, there is something of a role reversal here from Duskendale, where Ser Dontos the knight (roughly about the age Barristan once at the time of the Defiance) owes his rescue to a child - not only one roughly about the age Dontos was at the destruction of the Darklyns and Hollards, but one who had herself so recently experienced the cruel extermination of her father and the Stark household, leaving her, like young Dontos, a child of a traitor dynasty (at least in the eyes of the crown) alone in the capital. Yet if Sansa is herself no knight, she nevertheless reveres the mystique of knighthood, understanding the role of a true knight as one who is (so she will think later) “sworn to defend the weak … and fight for the right”. Seeing a man who “was drunk and silly and useless, but … meant no harm” - that is, one of those “weak” whom knights were sworn to protect - Sansa takes the (considerable!) risk of arguing for his life to Joffrey, just as Barristan Selmy had done to Aerys in begging for the life of young Dontos. Just as Dontos had personally meant nothing to Barristan during the Defiance, so Dontos means nothing personally to Sansa here (his involvement in Littlefinger’s scheme to spirit her from the capital not yet begun); Sansa calls for his life simply because it is not right that a weak and innocent man should be murdered at the king’s whim, an expression (albeit unconscious on her part) of that core knightly responsibility.

Naturally, Sansa cannot rely, as Barristan did, on any sense of royal gratitude to save Dontos; where Aerys II could not refuse his so recent rescuer when the latter asked for a boon, Joffrey is as of this tourney regularly abusing Sansa, even threatening here to drown her for merely suggesting Dontos’ life should be spared. Instead, it is Sandor Clegane who provides the justification, corroborating Sansa’s clumsy warning of ill fortune to convince Joffrey against murdering a man on his birthday. Sandor Clegane, perhaps more than any other character in the series, specifically reviles and disdains the formal conception of knighthood - yet here, draped in a white cloak in a bitter parody of Barristan Selmy (as Sandor himself had replaced that virtual epitome of the Kingsguard), Sandor laconically (and, to be sure, indirectly) fulfills that knightly charge of defending the weak. Sansa then seizes on Joffrey’s temporary stay of execution to transform Dontos into a royal fool; where Barristan’s plea for Dontos’ life had set the latter on the path of royal squire and eventually knight, Sansa’s suggestion strips Dontos of any future knightly dignity, but in a way which would (so she might have presumed) save his life long-term (as indeed, a fool’s very position allows him some sense of license, preserving the fool from retaliation by the people he taunts). Once, one of the the most (publicly) admired knights of the Kingsguard (themselves supposed to be “the finest swords in all the realm”) had used his knightly position to save the life of the young Dontos and given him the promise of knighthood for his future; now, a young girl and a man who had vehemently rejected knighthood save the adult Dontos through the elimination of his knightly identity.