#undertale file attribution theory

[narrachara-evidence-bracket]

Round 1, poll 7

Vote for whichever you think is best!

Evidence/Propaganda under the cut

Undyne:

-Chara and the Narrator both really admire her (the Narrator's reaction to her death in neutral, the near constant gushing in pacifist, and Chara still calling Undyne the hero in genocide and having far less killing intent towards her than any of the other bosses

-First example that comes to my mind is the positive reactions the narrator seems to have when faced against Undyne, as well as their silence when something bad happens to her, which would make sense for Chara considering it's likely they would really respect someone like Undyne, who doesn't like humans and is determined to stop you

File attribution theory:

-When Frisk is going through the underground, there are two active save files that seem to work in tandem. One (file 9)evidently belongs to Frisk, while the other was a) never used (which makes sense for Chara since Flowey seems to think that resetting was the power they were trying to stop and well, of course, they wouldn't use a power that would allow them to evade consequences) b) named file 0, implying it's owner was the first person in the underground who could reset.

[random-autie-fangirl]

#dreemurr is an anagram for murderer

:0

I did not realize that, but I probably should’ve hah, oh dang, but thanks for the spelling tip :)

And Asriel is an anagram for serial! So together it makes serial murderer =) (Can you imagine Chara bursting to a fit of giggles just after realizing this (like right at the beginning of the Asriel fight?) "Oh, the universe does have such a wonderfully ironic sense of humour at times, does it not?" An inapropriate but very Chara response)

And then we have the rest of the family, Asgore is very obviously a murderer (as the six souls can attest) and then Chara....you can count attempted murder, but I think I have something more interesting actually.

Okay so, due to file attribution theory, we know that Chara had their own save file but they just never used it, (which makes sense since Asriel describes determination as the power Chara was trying to stop and they think very negatively about people being above consequences, and resetting helps negate consequences), I think that Chara might have been able to reset back to the beginning and save both themselves and Asriel when they died to the villagers, but they didn't. Because his and their deaths were the consequences of the plan failing, and that they didn't see the point of continuing or trying again once they had already failed. (I mean, think about it, Chara is confused about being alive again specifically because their plan failed).

To put it bluntly, Chara got to the game over screen, saw the will you persist question and clicked no. But Asriel was with them too, and by letting themselves die, Chara also chose to let Asriel die when they could have saved him, and that to me is what makes them a ...Dreemurr. (and yes, murder-suicide still counts as murder).

Which is sort of why I don't like the old adage "Chara only killed one person. Themselves." No, they killed their brother, no matter what timeline you're talking about, they killed Asriel. Don't forget that. C and A, ....Cain and Abel, maybe it was always meant to end this way (or maybe it didn't have to, if it was anyone else, but Chara seems to think the very notion of defying fate is blasphemy). "I would follow in your footsteps, I would erase myself from existence" But the first time round, Asriel didn't have a choice, did he? He had to follow in their footsteps, because Chara dragged him along with them.

And then we have Toriel, Toriel, no matter how you cut it didn't kill anyone but well...she divorced Asgore before the game started and she says in the game itself that she doesn't consider herself nor want to be a Dreemurr anymore,

So it might be an unfortunate truth that the Undertale dreemurrs are murderers but I guess Toriel got away and dropped the name before the family curse could get her. Good for her!

And...yeah, the Undertale Dreemurrs, there are some edgy theories about Kris accidentally killing Azzy or whatever but I just think it's like...Undertale and Deltarune are different games, Toriel's name is still Toriel despite not being the Tutorial segment anymore so I think the anagram didn't carry over between games and it doesn't mean anything anymore. (plus surely if the dreemurrs are murderers thing carried over, it would surely apply to Deltarune's version of Asriel and Asgore)

Anyway, you're welcome for the spelling tip! :)

[utdrmv-confession-box]

Transcript: Theories (such as the File Attribution Theory) should not be brought up into debates like how they are in r/Undertale. They aren't canonical, please stop using it to fight with me.

...

I also just hate r/Undertale in general.

[vgfm]

Kris: Roaring Knight or Red Herring?

HEY EVERY___!

A lot has changed, hasn’t it? Last year I wrote a massive theory post on Everyman’s role in the Undertale/Deltarune series, which culminated in my theory that Everyman is the Knight. A month after that I made a follow-up post that went further down the rabbit hole and explored Everyman’s possible relationship to Gaster.

With the release of Deltarune Chapter 2 I debated making a third part to my Everyman analysis, but it turned out there’s more to talk about than I could’ve imagined. Chapter 2 has given us plenty of new Knight lore, so let’s take a look at what this means for my Everyman theor—

Oh.

Look, there’s Kris. Creating a fountain. On-screen and everything. It’s not remotely ambiguous either. Even the game files straight up tell you that Kris is creating a new dark fountain.

[Image transcript: UTModTool is showing multiple sprite entries whose names begin with “spr_kris_make_fountain”. On the right is an animation file for Kris jumping up after they open the dark fountain. End image transcript]

I’ll be honest, when I first saw this scene I wasn’t terribly surprised. The writing already seemed to be on the wall when the Queen provided a glimpse of the Knight creating her fountain. Her description of the Knight’s outstretched hand holding a blade might as well have been a blaring neon sign that said “Doesn’t this remind you of Kris?”

[Image transcript: Queen looking at a project of a giant hand and a blade. Her dialogue says “It Coursed Its Will Into Its Blade” End image transcript]

I’ve had some time since that first playthrough to mull things over. I can’t deny that Chapter 2’s ending makes my own Knight hypothesis seem less likely than it did at the end of chapter 1. However, I don’t think things are as open-and-shut as they first appear. Before I can make an all-encompassing follow-up to my Everyman analysis, I have to take a bit of a detour with our friend Kris. Think of this as a “part 2.5” of my Everyman analysis (warning: may not contain Everyman).

Disclaimer

Just so that we’re on the same page, I want to make a distinction between two characters: Kris and the Soul.

Throughout the course of this analysis, I will use the name “Kris” to refer to the identity of the human protagonist of Deltarune, specifically when referring to their backstory and the actions that Kris takes without (or in spite of) player input.

Conversely, “the Soul” will refer to the red heart that we can control through player input. Many fans refer to this entity as “the Player,” but I’m accounting for the possibility that the Soul is an in-universe character with their own backstory and motives that may align with and symbolize the player’s while remaining distinct. This is not unlike how Frisk was an individual with their own name outside of the player’s influence in Undertale. TL;DR the Soul is not simply the Player, the Soul is an entity that the Player is using to control and interact with the game through Kris.

In cases where a player would take a course of action in Kris’ body, I may use “Kris” or “the Soul” interchangeably or in tandem—the game isn’t always 100% clear on where Kris’ actions end and the Souls’ begin when they’re together, especially when said actions are attributed to “you.”

[Image transcript: Kris looking at their own reflection. The narration box says “(It’s what they call ‘you.’)” End image transcript]

However, I think most of us can agree that we’re meant to take them as separate entities.

For the purposes of this analysis I’m tackling the idea that “Kris” the non-player human character is the Knight, not the idea that the Soul is the Knight or that the combined Kris/Soul that we control is the Knight. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone theorize that the Soul is the Knight or even related to the Knight’s machinations, but I just wanted to clear the air.

One other quick disclaimer is that this analysis contains evidence from the game as well as my own opinions on theories and storytelling. There will also be speculation about future reveals and story events. The end result is that some of my arguments about Kris’ possible Knighthood are based on the text and some are based on things that just bug me.

Nothing I say should be taken as gospel—I tend to play fast and loose with my theory writing so as to weigh the various possibilities rather than settling on one objective answer. My goal isn’t to make readers agree with every point I make, but to inspire further thought and discussion on topics even if you disagree with my conclusions.

The Case for Kris

With that out of the way, let’s address the elephant in the room: Kris made a dark fountain inside their house. There’s absolutely no way to deny this. It happens right in front of us and the game files for this scene outright name Kris’ sprites as “kris_make_fountain.” What’s more, Kris is the only character so far who has created a fountain onscreen, meaning they are the top Knight suspect by default.

Let’s quick go over the evidence that points towards Kris being the Knight:

Queen implies the Knight is a lightner with determination, which humans are known to have

[Image transcript: Two Screenshots of Queen looking at the horizon. The dialogue continues across both screenshots, saying “This Power Of Determination… Is This Not Something That All Lightners Possess…?” End image transcript]

Kris’ knife resembles the bladed weapon that the Queen shows in the Knight’s hand

Kris’ whereabouts can’t be fully accounted for at night, when the previous fountains may have been created

Kris has regular access to the areas where fountains have appeared

The Knight is referred to with they/them/it pronouns in Chapter 2, lining up with Kris’ pronouns

[Image transcript: Four screenshots arranged in a grid. In the first, Sweet says “’Knight’ this, ‘Knight’ that, ‘Fountain’ that…” and Cap’n says “Like, what does that Knight even have going for it that I don’t!? C’mon!!” In the second, a Swatchling says “Where the KNIGHT creates the Fountain by its own hand…” In the third, Susie says “Whatever they are, they’re making these fountains…” In the fourth, Queen says “Unfortunately The World They Created”. End image transcript]

Kris’ dark world form is dressed like a knight

Kris creates a dark fountain on-screen

Out of Deltarune’s entire cast, Kris easily has the most direct evidence in favor of them being the Knight. While most of the points on this list aren’t smoking guns on their own, together they paint a clear picture and the final point (Kris creating a fountain) brings it all into focus. If a “Knight” is someone who’s created a dark fountain then Kris is undoubtedly a Knight, but is Kris the Knight? That’s the million-kromer question.

Before anyone accuses me of being pedantic by making a distinction between “a” Knight and “the” Knight, keep in mind that the game specifically entertains the idea of more than one Knight existing.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots in a grid. The Queen is looking at holographic portraits of Kris, Susie, and Noelle. Her dialogue continues across all screenshots, saying: “Is This Not Something That All Lightners Possess…? If One Was Simply Determined Enough Could Not Anyone Make A Dark Fountain?”  End image transcript]

The whole plot of Chapter 2 revolves around Queen attempting to create a “new” Knight. Hypothetically it could happen in later chapters, if it hasn’t happened already.

Any Knight suspect needs the means, the motive, and the opportunity to open a fountain. In Kris’ case, it’s self-evident that they have the means to open at least one fountain. But did Kris have the means, opportunity, and motive to open any of the other fountains that we’ve seen?

The Castle Town and Card Castle fountains both exist in the school, and Cyber World resides in the public library computer lab—both are areas of Hometown that Kris would have access to. Granted, the library is open to the public so that’s a bit of a “free space” for Knight suspects.

We don’t know when the two fountains from Chapter 1 were created, so it’s a big question mark whether Kris had the opportunity to create them during whatever timeframe they were created. We can assume that these fountains were both created before the beginning of Chapter 1, which is a time period that we (as players) did not have the ability to observe.

We know that the Cyber World was created between Chapters 1 and 2—whether Kris had the opportunity to create this fountain has been hotly debated in the fandom and there’s a lot of points to go over, so that will get its own section later. For now, what interests me most is motivation.

What’s Kris’ Motivation?

We have yet to hear Kris speak directly, so we can’t say with certainty what their motivation was for opening the fountain in their house, or what their motivation could’ve been for opening other fountains (if they did so). There are a few possibilities:

Kris wants to have fun new dark world adventures with Susie

Kris wants to destroy the world via the Roaring

Kris is looking for something (or someone) in the dark worlds

Kris wants to grow stronger from adventuring and/or sealing fountains

Kris wants to prove to the people of Hometown that dark worlds exist

This doesn’t cover every possible motive there could be, but these five are each rooted in information that’s been previously established in the story. Let’s go over them one by one:

1 Kris enjoys exploring new dark worlds.

This is likely true regardless of whether this is Kris’ only motivation for opening the fountain or not. We’ve already heard Noelle and Susie sing their praises of the dark world, and Susie in particular is eager to explore more of them.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots in a grid. In the first, Noelle says “I wonder if this world… wouldn’t be so bad?” and in the second Susie continues, saying “Kris, isn’t this world just… BETTER?” In the third and fourth, Susie says “Whatever they are, they’re making these fountains… But… is that really a bad thing?” End image transcript]

Kris also has the option of agreeing to Susie’s plan to try to bring Ralsei and Lancer into Hometown, though it’s unclear how much of that is their own opinion and/or the Soul’s.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots in a grid. In the first three, Susie says “You, Ralsei, Lancer, everyone… that’s why, y’know… Don’t you think we should… Try to have them come to OUR world?” In the fourth, a choice is offered between saying “Seems a little far fetched” or “Yeah let’s do it”.  End image transcript]

Right before Kris opens the fountain in their home, they take a moment to check on Susie.

There’s also the possibility that they slashed Toriel’s tires in order to prevent her from driving Susie home.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Toriel on the phone. She says “And when I checked our car—The tires… looked like they’d been slashed.”  End image transcript]

If Kris made the library fountain then they may have planned in advance to explore that fountain with Susie at their leisure. However, this would mean that the two fountains in Chapter 1 couldn’t have been made with Susie in mind since Kris and Susie weren’t even friends yet.

One could argue that Kris may have explored either of the school fountains previously, given that a “Kris” save file can be found when saving for the first time.

[Image transcript: A fresh save slot with LV 0 and 0 minutes played. The filename says “EMPTY”.  End image transcript]

(pretend this says “Kris.” I didn’t want to make a fresh save)

There’s also the flavor text upon first saving where the game refers to save points as “the light only you can see,” though it’s unclear whether this is referring to Kris or the Soul.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Kris at a save point. The narration states “At times, you see it flickering. The light only you can see. By second nature, you reach out, and…”  End image transcript]

If it’s the Soul then this could be referring to prior experience in Undertale’s world (or some other world with saving), but if it’s referring to Kris then this could imply that Kris has been in a dark world before, although this wouldn’t necessarily have to be any of the dark worlds that we’ve seen during gameplay.

If Kris has been in one of the school fountains before, this raises the question of why no one in either dark world recognizes Kris or implies any prior history with them. There’s also the fact that Kris seems afraid of the first dark fountain that they uncover, which would be a peculiar reaction if they’ve created these dark worlds. Kris noticeably does not react with the same level of fear to the Library’s fountain, so why would they be (or pretend to be) afraid of a fountain one day and then not be afraid the next if they created both?

[Image transcript: Two screenshots, each of Susie and Kris opening the door to the dark world in Chapters 1 and 2, respectively. In the first, Susie says “Fine! If you’re gonna be a WIMP, then I’ll…” In the second, she says “H… huh…?”  End image transcript]

Either they wouldn’t be afraid at all or they’d act afraid both times to keep up appearances.

2 Kris wants to destroy the world via the Roaring.

To me this seems like the least-likely motive. For one thing, Ralsei’s legend indicates that sealing the fountains will banish the angel’s heaven, with the implication that this will stop the roaring.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots from the Legend. The text says “Only they can seal the fountains and banish the ANGEL’S HEAVEN.”  End image transcript]

This would put the whole fun gang at cross purposes with Kris’ true goal if they’re the Knight.

However, at no point does Kris indicate any resistance to the idea of sealing the fountains, nor do they ever try to sabotage this effort in the light or dark worlds, which Kris could’ve easily done by steering Susie away from the Library in Chapter 2.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Kris and Susie standing outside the computer lab dark world with two dialogue options presented. The first says “Let’s go! Let’s go!” The second says “We can use the computer at my house”.  End image transcript]

While there are selectable dialogue options for this, Kris’ phone call with Toriel indicates they intend to take Susie to the Library.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Kris balancing a trash orb on their head. Toriel (on the phone) says “Oh, you are going to the library later?”  End image transcript]

Note that they only say this after Noelle first asks Kris to bring Susie to the Library, so this doesn’t necessarily indicate that Kris had some “master plan” to bring Susie to the Library all along.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots. In them, Noelle says “Have fun, you two! I’ll, um, be at the Library! (Kris, if you could bring her by later…)”  End image transcript]

Susie even backs up this line of thinking by saying she came to the library because of Noelle, not Kris (or at least not solely Kris).

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Susie telling Noelle: “… you invited us to study. Remember?” End image transcript]

Moreover, Kris has had even more definitive ways available to end the threat of the three heroes. At the end of Chapter 2, Kris has the sleeping Susie (aka “Snoozie”) completely at their mercy but does nothing to harm or impede her, despite her being one of the heroes of legend who’s integral to the group’s mission of sealing fountains.

Likewise, there have been two opportunities where the soul has left Kris’ body while they (presumably) speak with Ralsei unfettered.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots, from Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 respectively. In both, Ralsei tells Kris “So that’s why”.  End image transcript]

On neither occasion has Kris seemingly taken any action against Ralsei or even threatened him, despite Ralsei being the one most adamantly opposed to the creation of new fountains while also being the one being most susceptible to Kris’ influence. As far as we can tell, Kris doesn’t even make an attempt to mislead or manipulate him when given the chance.

It’s obvious that Kris and Susie are close friends, and although Kris may be more lukewarm towards Ralsei we haven’t seen any intent to oppose him, let alone harm him. These facts are consistent with less-destructive motivations for opening fountains, but not if Kris intends to cause the roaring. Unless if Kris is being set up to have a change of heart through the power of friendship, I just don’t see this as an option for them. If there’s another Knight out there then who knows if they feel as charitable?

Somewhat relevant side note, but it’s weird that Queen refers to the Knight as the “Roaring Knight.”

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Queen saying “The Roaring Knight…”  End image transcript]

What makes this weird is that no one else prior calls the Knight by this title and Queen herself doesn’t even know what the Roaring is.

[Image transcript: A text transcript of Ralsei talking to Queen. Ralsei says “Queen, why… Why do you want to unleash the Roaring so much?! Queen says “What Is That” Ralsei says “Um… the Roaring” Queen says “Yeah That What Is That” Ralsei says “If too much darkness is released… Titans will emerge from the fountain… And destroy everything. All Darkners will turn into statues… And all Lightners will be lost in eternal chaos.” Queen says “Holy Circuits Are You Serious” Ralsei says “You REALLY didn’t know that!?” Queen says “No” End image transcript]

Does this imply that perhaps the Knight introduced themselves as the Roaring Knight and that’s where Queen learned the title? We don’t see Kris make any such declaration with the fountain in their house. I wonder if this was an oversight or if there’s some deeper meaning behind the title and its origin? Either way it doesn’t look like it points to Kris, but we can’t be sure.

3 Kris is looking for something in the dark worlds.

This is the notion that some event in Kris’ or the town’s past led to something (or someone) being lost in a dark world and Kris is now trying to look for them.  This could be as simple as Kris looking for an old keepsake to Kris trying to find Dess, reach Asriel, encounter Gaster, or perhaps even find their own soul.

This motive may be possible if Kris isn’t the Knight but doesn’t seem very likely if they are the Knight. Why? Because Kris eagerly scouring dark worlds doesn’t align with the idea of Kris being afraid of the first fountain (unless it was their first time seeing it), nor does it align with the Knight creating the Library fountain during the night and then immediately “taking their leave” just to explore it later.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Queen saying “If The Knight Has Taken Its Leave”  End image transcript]

Even if you’d argue that Kris was “saving” the Library fountain for later to explore with Susie, you’d think someone as introverted as Kris would prefer to look for something at their own leisure, especially if it’s something personal. If what they were looking for was a person then time would be a factor and if they’re willing to go far enough to open fountains then you’d think they wouldn’t hesitate to begin searching ASAP. For example, if Dess was lost in Cyber World then do you think Kris would wait a whole day to look for her while she wastes away from potassium deficiency?

Unless we’re given further context, this goal seems like it would be mutually exclusive with Kris as the Knight.

4 Kris wants to grow stronger from adventuring and/or sealing fountains.

This theory proposes that it’s not the fountains themselves that Kris wants, but rather that they’re a means to an end—that “end” being power. Whether it’s power through combat and better equipment, or power through the accumulation of LV.

One lingering mystery (among many) in Deltarune is why the fun gang’s LV increases between Chapter 1 and 2. This number increases a second time once the fountain in the Library is sealed.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots, from the beginning and end of Chapter 2 respectively. In the first, Kris is a LV2 Bed Inspector: Inspects all beds inexplicably. In the second, Kris is a LV3 Moss Finder: Basic moss-finding abilities. End image transcript]

Presumably, sealing fountains makes the fun gang more powerful (despite Ralsei not being present during the sealing). However, this increased LV does not carry over to the light world.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of the stat menu in the light world. Kris is still LV 1 and has 0 EXP.”  End image transcript]

What’s even weirder is that the “creator” (implied to be the soul) will grow to LV 2 when saving in a dark world in Chapter 2, but this level will not increase to 3 after sealing the Library fountain.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of a save point message in Castle Town at the end of Chapter 2. The file is LV2. End image transcript]

So we’re left with three different LV values at the end of Chapter 2: Kris, Susie, and Ralsei are LV 3 in the dark world, the creator/soul (?) is still LV 2 in the dark world, and Kris is LV 1 in the light world. I can’t even say whether this discrepancy is fully intended or a partial bug, at least in the case of the creator/Soul’s LV.

It’s not clear why LV works this way in Deltarune or whether Deltarune’s LV is even mechanically the same as Undertale’s LV or not. It would be hard to argue that LV works the same in both games unless if the fountains themselves are somehow “alive,” which I suppose can’t be ruled out for a late-game plot twist.

More importantly, one could argue that Kris isn’t gaining any immediate benefit from the party’s increasing LV. Kris is most active in the light world, where their LV is still stuck at 1. One could maybe argue that sealing the fountains somehow made Kris powerful enough to assert themselves at the end of each chapter, but the presence of the bird cage in Kris’ room implies that they’ve been able to do this since before their dark world excursions (that we know of).

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Kris looking at their wagon. The narration states “It’s a red wagon with a rusty birdcage in it. Looks like it’s seen quite a few crashes.”  End image transcript]

I’d argue that if anyone stands to gain from sealing fountains it’s Ralsei and the Soul. Ralsei has made no secret that he wants other fountains sealed, and each time that happens his own kingdom grows.

[Image transcript: Three screenshots of Kris and Ralsei in Castle Town. Ralsei says “(Kris, as you bring Dark World Denizens back here… The power of our Fountain… Will transform this town more and more.)”  End image transcript]

However, we also see that Ralsei firmly shuts down Berdly when he attempts to create a fountain, despite everyone else being on-board with it.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Berdly attempting to create a fountain. In the first, Berdly says “I will make a new Fountain…” In the second, Ralsei yells “STOP!” and Berdly does so.  End image transcript]

It’s fair to say that Ralsei isn’t playing both sides of the fountain conflict—it seems he genuinely wants no more fountains, even if he stands to gain when they’re created and later sealed.

The Soul’s motives are more difficult to pin down but there’s some potential overlap with Ralsei. The bulk of the Soul’s time is spent in dark worlds, where they’d profit from the increase in LV. In Chapter 2 we also see that Ralsei’s Castle Town has been named after the name that we enter as the name of the creator/soul.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of a Rudinn in Castle Town saying “Oho. Welcome to GERSONTown! Or so I heard it’s called.”  End image transcript]

Darkners in Castle Town also refer to their “boss” when spoken to, in one case seeming to make a distinction between Kris and their boss, implying they’re separate entities.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Jigsaw Joe saying “Boss! If you know Kris’s ACT will give an enemy 100% mercy…”  End image transcript]

It’s not clear how the darkners would be aware of the existence of the Soul or its distinction from Kris. Clearly they don’t reference this distinction when you encounter them in their own dark worlds. Based on what we’ve seen, there’s a strong likelihood that not only is Ralsei aware of the Soul but he may have also told his citizens about this distinction, or at least let it slip.

Unlike Ralsei, we haven’t seen any definitive evidence as to whether the Soul is adamantly against the creation of new fountains, regardless of their proclivity for sealing them. We can gather that Kris doesn’t want the Soul to interfere when they make the fountain in their house, but it’s not clear whether their fear is founded or not.

In the Snowgrave route, Spamton has one line that hints at a possible use for the fountains:

[Image transcript: A text transcript of Spamton saying “AND NOW IT’S MY [Mansion]! MY [City]! MY [World]! SO WHY ARE YOU [Stealing] THE [Fountain]!? TO [$!$!] ME OVER RIGHT AT THE [Good part]!? WHAT ARE YOU, A [Gameshow Host]!?”  End image transcript]

Spamton claims that Kris/the Soul is “stealing” the fountain rather than “sealing” it. As the new de facto ruler of Cyber World, it’s likely that Spamton views the fountain as his property. However, the more important implication here is that the act of sealing the fountain is, in fact, “stealing” it. Keep in mind that it’s the Soul that seals fountains, not Kris.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Kris and Susie at the fountain. The narration says “(Your very SOUL was glowing…)”  End image transcript]

This implies that the Soul is somehow “using” the fountain or taking its power instead of simply negating it. After all, you wouldn’t accuse someone of “stealing” electricity if all they did was unplug one of your devices without plugging in one of theirs.

So I think there is a potential motive for sealing fountains that extends beyond just averting the roaring and keeping the balance of light and dark in check. However, this motive would be much more applicable for the Soul’s actions than it would be for Kris’. If anything, you’d think Kris would want to avoid empowering the Soul any further, lest they permanently lose control.

5 Kris wants to prove to the people of Hometown that dark worlds exist.

What better way to wake up Hometown to the threat of the Roaring than by covering their whole town in a dark world? This theory may be the most far-fetched at first blush but it has some evidence to back it up.

First off, we’re twice given the option to tell Undyne about the existence of dark worlds.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Kris talking to Undyne. Undyne says “What? There’s a Dark World inside the school? Uh… SURE, kid.”  End image transcript]

Based on Undyne’s response in Chapter 2, it sounds like Kris goes into great detail about them and the danger that they pose.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots of Kris talking to Undyne. In the first, a dialogue choice for “Dark World” is highlighted. In the rest, Undyne says “Huh? A super-dangerous alternate world in the Library? More are appearing? People might fall inside…? Hahaha… You seriously think I’m gonna believe that?”  End image transcript]

I find Undyne’s dialogue here significant because Chapter 2 is full of moments where Kris will seem to disagree with a certain dialogue choice or will in some way undermine it via how they deliver it.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. In the first two, Kris is talking to Alphys. In the first, the dialogue option for “Lost sleep from being Susie’s partner” is highlighted. In the second, Alphys says “You say, with no negative intonation at all.” In the bottom two, Kris is talking to Ralsei and Susie next to Queen’s punchout game. In the first, the dialogue option or “Gaming is my life” is highlighted. In the second, Ralsei says “W-wow, Kris! Your passion is amazing!!” and Susie replies “…That was the most monotone response I’ve heard in my life?”  End image transcript]

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. In the first two, Kris is talking to Berdly during the coaster fight. In the first, the “Join” dialogue option is highlighted. In the second, Berdly says “What!? Don’t say it so incredulously!” In the bottom two, Susie is talking to Kris on their couch. Susie asks “Noelle… or Ralsei?” Once Kris responds, Susie says “What!? Why are you saying it so confused?”  End image transcript]

It’s true that Undyne laughs at Kris if you tell her, but there’s nothing to suggest Kris is saying this in a joking way—the reason why Undyne finds it funny is because Kris apparently expects her to believe it. You wouldn’t say “you expect me to believe that?” to someone telling an obvious joke.

If Kris was the Knight all along then you’d think the last thing they’d want is for the cops to be on their tail. Yet the Undyne dialogue and Kris’ actions at the end of Chapter 2 make it seem like they’re openly inviting the police to stick their noses into things.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Toriel on the phone. She says “Officer, if you could please come over… You will? Soon? Thank you…” End image transcript]

Kris goes ahead with creating the fountain even after learning that the police are on their way and they even leave the front door ajar. This flies right in the face of fan perceptions of “Knight” Kris as some kind of thief in the night who painstakingly breaks into the library without leaving a trace and who goes the extra mile to eat a pie as an alibi (more on that later).

Now, why would Kris want more people to know about dark worlds? For starters, getting the cops to take the threat of the Roaring seriously would make things harder for the actual Knight, who’s been operating unopposed so far. Making the public more aware would give the Knight fewer opportunities to create fountains in public locations without being caught in the act. If needed, Kris and Susie could simply claim that someone else created the fountain in their house and have Noelle and Berdly corroborate this based on their own experiences in the Cyber World.

The one sticking point of this motive is trying to square it with the fact that Kris is the one who created the fountain at the end of Chapter 2. Won’t getting the cops involved backfire for them even if they’re not the Knight? Won’t everyone just be more suspicious of Kris instead of going after the real culprit? Well, that issue exists whether Kris is the Knight or not, but I think this gambit could be a sign of desperation on Kris’ part. Kris now knows the stakes if too many fountains are created, but the heroes aren’t getting any closer to catching the Knight at this rate.

Kris’ options are limited and this was their attempt at making a big play. One fountain was just sealed, so there’s a window of opportunity to create one more without shifting the balance any further than it already has. If doing this gets the cops, the mayor, and the rest of the town to take things seriously then perhaps it’s worth the risk?

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. In the first two, Kris is talking to the Mayor’s receptionist. The receptionist says “I’m sorry, I’m sorry. The mayor is busy right now. If you need to see her, please try causing some terrible crisis.” In the third, Susie tells Kris “People’d freak out if they knew the world’s in danger.” In the fourth, Kris opens the front door to their house.  End image transcript]

It’s a huge risk, granted, but if anyone could make a play like this it’s Kris—they (or the Soul, rather) are the one person who can immediately seal the fountain, so who better to open one for the greater good?

[Image transcript: Two screenshots. In the first, Ralsei says “Furthermore, only Kris can seal the DARK FOUNTAIN…” In the second, Susie says “You can seal it…”  End image transcript]

There’s also a less-altruistic interpretation for Kris’ motives: what if Kris wants to be the only one allowed to create fountains? They have no desire to cause the roaring, but that will always be a threat if there’s someone else running around making fountains unchecked and pushing the balance too far out of whack. Kris still wants to have fun adventures with Susie, but first they have to get rid of this interloper Knight that’s complicating things. What better way than to get the cops on the other guy’s trail and have a little dark world fun while you’re at it? Everybody wins!

This plan could still work with Susie’s desire to bring dark world residents into the light world by getting everyone in town acclimated to the idea of the dark world so that once the real Knight is caught and locked up, Kris would be free to make fountains “sustainably.” Currently we don’t know whether a single fountain can cover an entire town or if it’s even possible to make a new fountain in an area that already had one sealed. For all we know, Kris trying to cover the town in a single fountain may somehow “inoculate” it against future fountains—a bit of a stretch, but not impossible.

We’ve also seen throughout the chapter that Susie is bummed out at the idea of keeping the fountains a secret from everyone else.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots of Susie talking to Kris in the computer lab. She says “We… we just actually saved the world, didn’t we!? And no one even knows! …guess it’s better that ay though, right? …though, kinda sucks Noelle has to forget, too…”  End image transcript]

It’s likely that Kris picked up on this in addition to her desire to bring Ralsei and Lancer into their world, so letting the whole town know about dark worlds could be a way for Susie to step into the role of hero in everyone else’s eyes as well.

Why Kris May Not be the Knight

I’m sure some of you were waiting for this shoe to drop from me. I’m not the only one to doubt the idea of Kris being the Knight (or rather, the only Knight), but I’m sure it’s no surprise that the “Everyman is the Knight” guy is skeptical of a competing theory. I’ll admit up front that my own theory got (some) things wrong and could very well be completely wrong—I’ve acknowledge that possibility from the start. However, even if the Knight is not Everyman or anyone else I’ve suggested then I would still be skeptical that the Knight is Kris either.

I want to clarify that I’m not saying with certainty that Kris isn’t the Knight—I obviously don’t know that and it’s always possible that future chapters will pull the rug out from under me no matter how convincing of an argument I could make. I also grant that Kris does have plenty of evidence in favor of them being the Knight—more than anyone else, in fact. So why do I think they’re not the Knight? Let me count the ways.

Fool Me Once…

For starters, this isn’t my first rodeo. Remember when Chapter 1 was released, and everyone and their mother was convinced that Kris was actually Chara (or possessed by Chara) and that they were going to go on a killing spree? Yeah, that didn’t happen, but Toby clearly wanted to conjure that image in our heads.

Toby not only used imagery from Undertale’s “soulless pacifist” ending to shock us and play to the expectations of an Undertale “follow-up,” but he also carefully foreshadowed what actually transpired in Chapter 1’s ending so that it would still make sense after the reveal. Specifically, Toby established that Toriel had made a pie and that Kris has had a habit of eating them whole.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Toriel talking to Kris. Toriel says “By the way, I just finished baking a pie… but do not eat it all this time, all right?”  End image transcript]

This lead many fans to theorize that Kris wasn’t going to kill anyone and was instead just going to eat the pie, and these fans were vindicated.

I feel like Toby is setting up a similar fake-out with Chapter 2’s ending, only with Kris as the Knight rather than Kris as a reincarnated Chara. Specifically, this fake-out wants you to think Kris is the only Knight when they’re really just a copycat. And, like Chapter 1, there’s already hints and bits of foreshadowing that imply this fake-out.

Undetermined Findings on Determination

The Queen’s speech foreshadows Kris’ possible status as a red herring when she goes out of her way to ponder that all lightners have determination and, therefore, any lightner can make a fountain. This is in contrast to Undertale, where determination was largely exclusive to humans and beings artificially infused with human determination.

I’ve explained in previous theory posts that Deltarune’s world doesn’t necessarily play by the same rules as Undertale’s. Toby has said so himself, as you can see on the official Deltarune website’s FAQ.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of a question and answer from the official Deltarune FAQ. The Question asks “So there’s no connections between the two games?” The answer says “It’s a different world that might even have different rules. That doesn’t mean there will be no connections at all though.”  End image transcript]

If Kris is the one and only Knight then why would the game bother teasing this possibility of all lightners having determination if the Knight just ends up being the sole human we’ve met? Misdirection? I’d argue it’s not particularly good misdirection because most Undertale fans will meet this line with skepticism. Many fans would already think “only humans have determination, right?” before the game outright confirms it with Kris being the Knight.

If Kris is the Knight then there’s no time for the mystery to linger or for players to turn the Queen’s words over in their heads by thinking “maybe determination works differently in Deltarune? Kinda like how it’s implied monsters don’t have magic outside of the dark world?”

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. In the first three, Noelle is talking with Susie after Queen’s defeat. Noelle says “I’ve never… had an adventure like this before.” Susie replies “With axes… and battles… and magic.” Noelle continues, saying “Where everything can be healed with a little spell.” The last screenshot is Noelle talking with her dad in the hospital. Noelle says “I wish I knew healing magic in real life.”  End image transcript]

There’s none of that if Kris is the Knight. In that scenario, the game just blatantly foreshadows it’s Kris, tells a bald-faced lie about lightners and determination that most fans would immediately sniff out, then says “surprise, it’s Kris!” as if it’s a surprise.

The line about lightners having determination can only serve two purposes: misdirection or fact. If what Queen says is true then it opens up the story possibilities considerably. Moreover, Chapter 2’s events already imply that lightners do have determination. Queen’s plan (and thus the entre conceit of Chapter 2) would have been impossible from the start if other lightners don’t have determination.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. The first two are Queen monologuing during the Giga Queen fight. Queen says “Her Own Will Her Own Determination Focusing Into Her Blade, She Will Create A Neo Dark Fountain” The last two screenshots are Queen talking to Noelle while threatening her friends. Queen says “Take… The Pin… I Gave You And… Stab The Earth”  End image transcript]

If lightners lacked determination, the scene with Berdly trying to open a fountain would make no sense—why was his weapon glowing? Why was Ralsei so eager to stop him?

[Image transcript: Four screenshots of Berdly raising his halberd next to the defeated Queen. Berdly says “Concentrating my will into this blade… I will make a new Fountain…” Ralsei then says “Do you realize what will happen if you do that? You’ll bring the Roaring.”  End image transcript]

If Berdly couldn’t open one to begin with, this would suggest Ralsei knows that Kris’ soul can seal fountains but he somehow doesn’t know what it takes to make one. Queen admits that she doesn’t know everything, but what are the odds that Ralsei and Queen are both wrong about this when Ralsei seems to know more about fountains than anyone?

The Berdly scene also tells us that creating a fountain likely isn’t that difficult once you know how. Berdly picked up on it almost instantly, even though he wasn’t even there for Queen’s lecture (though one could imagine he may have seen Queen’s video recordings of her fountain’s creation). If Berdly could learn in such a short time, is it a stretch to imagine that Kris could have learned from Queen as well?

Another thing to consider is that if Kris lacks their own soul and is using the red soul as a substitute then that would also imply that determination in Deltarune does not follow Undertale’s rules or limitations. If determination only came from human souls then Kris couldn’t open the fountain in their house after removing the red soul. Even if one were to argue that some residual determination remains in Kris’ body, you’d think they would’ve expended a fair amount of that going all the way to the Library and back at night, to say nothing of what they would’ve spent creating that fountain.

This is backed up by Flowey in Undertale—if the rules of determination are somehow the same in both games then Flowey demonstrates that determination stolen from a live soul can’t be maintained once that soul is removed. Omega Flowey’s powers disappeared instantly when the souls rebelled, and Asriel’s not long after when he released the souls willingly.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Asriel talking to Frisk. Asriel says “Without the power of everyone’s souls… I can’t keep maintaining this form.”  End image transcript]

One reason, at least conceptually, why lightners have determination could be as a remnant of a scrapped idea that Toby had for Deltarune. During Undertale’s 6th anniversary stream (at ~1:22:00), Toby revealed that he considered making Hometown’s residents humans who only turned into monsters/animals in the dark world. This idea was abandoned, but it could be evidence that Toby always intended for the town residents to be on “even footing” in terms of their base traits and abilities, including determination. This can be seen by how Deltarune downplays the differences between humans and monsters, usually lumping them together as “lightners” to further contrast them against darkners.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of a human on one side and a darkner on the other. The text says “For millennia, LIGHT and DARK have lived in balance,”  End image transcript]

The Knight’s Narrative Potential

While it is true that the Queen’s presentation of the Knight’s blade creating the fountain clearly points to Kris, keep in mind that the game also lingers on Kris’ icon when the Queen discusses creating a “new” Knight to replace the old one.

[Image transcript: Three screenshots of Queen monologuing while looking at portraits of three lightners. Queen says “If The Knight Has Taken Its Leave Then I Will Simply… Make A New One” As she says this, the three lightner portraits come together with only Kris’ portrait visible on top.  End image transcript]

The way this is presented could point to either Kris being the Knight or Kris being a red herring following in the Knight’s footsteps, but the narrative would have to point in Kris’ direction either way.

Kris being the only Knight would close off narrative possibilities and make the Queen’s “misdirection” feel pointless, whereas if there’s more than one Knight then not only is the Queen’s speech no longer unnecessary but the story implications of Kris creating a fountain can still be explored—it’s the best of both worlds.

Moreover, having multiple Knights would allow the narrative to explore different motivations for creating a fountain—escapism, power, creating new life, or destroying the world. Many of these motives are mutually exclusive with one another, but multiple Knights would allow for them to be explored and contrasted with one another.

Now I want to take a step back and clarify that just because I think it would be nice for a narrative to explore an idea doesn’t mean that it has to or that it will. I fully admit that I’d prefer if Kris wasn’t the only Knight, in part for this greater narrative potential, but that’s not the only reason why I think there’s another Knight out there.

I’m normally not one for Cinema Sins-styled plot nitpickery, but Kris being the Knight just introduces so many logistical questions that butt right up against everything we’ve been shown so far. What’s more, virtually all of these issues are resolved if the fountain in Kris’ house is the first one they’ve ever created.

From Kris’ perspective, it’s also much neater and simpler for them to settle on their house for a fountain location because it’s probably the only viable location within reach, given how much they struggle just to get to their driveway or even walk under their own power.

It would also make sense for Kris to make the fountain in their house now if they were just learning for the first time how a fountain is made. Not to mention they just got done having multiple conversations with Susie and Noelle about how great dark worlds are and how they’d like to explore more of them. There’s more than enough narrative setup for a non-Knight Kris to figure out how to make fountains and gain the motivation to do so—the ending of Chapter 2 practically spoon-feeds it to them.

Kris at Cross Purposes

Speaking of motivations, the Knight’s actions thus far don’t really square with Kris opening a fountain in their own house to cover the rest of the town. The previous fountains we’ve seen have all been in enclosed areas. The two in the school are in seemingly abandoned rooms that no one had discovered until Kris and Susie stepped in. The one in the computer lab, while in a public area, is notably closed off from the rest of the building.

If this was Kris’ MO so far, then why are they changing things up now? Why try to spread a fountain over the whole town when the previous fountains were confined?  It’s not like Queen was the first one to lament that her world’s fountain was confined to one location. King also expressed a desire to cover the world in darkness.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. The first two are of Queen monologuing. Queen says “Unfortunately The World They Created Is Trapped Within The Confines Of The Library” The last two screenshots are of King talking to the three heroes. King says “Soon, this world… shall be blanketed in darkness… and DARKNERS shall RULE it!”  End image transcript]

One could argue that the Knight might’ve been trying to ratchet up the size of their dark worlds with each new fountain, with the first being a storage closet, the second being a classroom, and the third being a closet + computer lab. However, this careful, experimental approach doesn’t really jive with Kris’ history of direct action. We’re talking about the kid who eats a whole pie in one sitting and who slashes their mom’s tires—half-measures are not their style.

The fountain in Kris’ house just doesn’t fit the pattern, especially if it’s intended to cover the whole town. Why would Kris create a fountain inside their own home now if they were the Knight all along? Why didn’t they do that earlier? They couldn’t have been afraid of Toriel finding out because she’s clearly going to find out now. If the library fountain was meant to lure in Susie then wouldn’t it have been just as easy (and less risky) to lure her into their home instead?

Kris had a golden opportunity to do exactly that once school was out, since Toriel was still at the school while Kris was dropping the trash orb into Castle Town, implying that Kris usually leaves the school before their mom does.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Kris balancing a ball of trash on their head in the school while Alphys and Toriel are nearby. The narration says “(Can’t let mom find out you’re balancing a giant trash orb!)”  End image transcript]

On any school day Kris could’ve rushed home with Susie and opened a fountain in their bedroom or bathroom or wherever. A home fountain would be easier to keep a secret, if that was ever the intention, though Kris’ actions in the Chapter 2 ending pretty much throw secrecy out the window.

That’s another thing that bothers me about Kris being the Knight: their devotion to secrecy is very inconsistent. One day they're sneaking into the library at night without a trace, having the foresight to head home before even the darkners can get a good look at them, and then for added measure eating a whole pie as an alibi for Toriel and possibly for the Soul as well. Compare that to the next day when they slash their mom’s tires while getting spotted by her.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Toriel on the phone. Toriel says “I thought I saw someone prowling around outside…”  End image transcript]

Kris then opens a fountain right in front of her with the front door open and the cops on their way. These two approaches are incompatible. Kris doesn’t even deign to sneak to a new location to create the newest fountain like they supposedly did the night before, even though they had ample opportunity to do so while Susie and Toriel slept.

Kris’ actions at the end of Chapter 2 do not come across as someone thinking about the long-term or unintended consequences of their actions. They certainly don’t come across as all that surreptitious, beyond waiting for everyone else to fall asleep before they act (which could have been intentional or due to the time it took for them to regain the strength to remove their soul a second time). To top it all off, their big diversion in the bathroom was literally something Papyrus did as a gag in Undertale.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. In the two on the left, Toriel says to Kris “… huh? Kris? Oh, YOU need to wash your hands too?” and then Kris climbs out the bathroom window. In the two screenshots on the right, Papyrus tells Frisk and Undyne “I HAVE TO GO TO THE BATHROOM!!” before jumping out of Undyne’s window.  End image transcript]

Kris’ conduct has always felt very direct to me—they do not seem like a subtle schemer or chess master. If Kris’ goal was to have dark world adventures with Susie then their actions do seem like they’re taking the most direct path to that goal, regardless of the consequences. This is a far cry from the idea that they snuck into the library and master-stroked Susie into the computer lab at the right time to have an adventure all while covering their tracks perfectly and fooling a Soul that can control and monitor their actions for 99% of the game.

Kris and the Soul – Damned if You Do, Damned if You Don’t

Kris being the Knight also raises a ton of questions about their relation to the Soul. Kris throws the Soul into a bird cage at the end of Chapter 1, but did they leave the Soul behind or take it with them when they went to the Library? If they left it behind then can Kris exist indefinitely without the Soul? That doesn’t seem to be the case, seeing as how they put the soul back in. If they took the soul with them then how come we never saw that? The Soul is our POV character, after all—it feels a little contrived that the game would cut out there but not at the other times when the Soul is removed.

Is Kris deliberately trying to hide their true nature from the Soul? That doesn’t seem to be the case, given how they brandish their knife and grin at the soul in Chapter 1 and then open a fountain in plain view of the Soul instead of quickly stashing it in another room (which they would’ve had ample time to do). And yet every now and then you’ll see some conspiracy-theory level take that Kris ate the pie for the sole purpose of misdirecting the Soul and covering up their actions at the Library. That level of obfuscation just does not mesh with a character that we know has brandished a knife and laid their cards out on the table at the end of each chapter—why hide anything from the Soul at this point?

On top of that, Kris seems to have a hard time moving around without the Soul. Did they walk all the way to the Library under their own power? Did they take the wagon with them? Does that mean they carried it down the stairs without waking Toriel? And under these conditions somehow they were stealthy and coordinated enough to break in to the Library without a trace, a skill they haven’t been shown to have anywhere else? If anything the game has implied the exact opposite.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Kris talking to Rudy. Rudy says “I’ll be outta here in a jiff, then I can go back to, I dunno… Yelling at you for getting tangled in our light display.”  End image transcript]

I know I’ve harped on this already, but did Kris really think all of this was easier than just opening the fountain in their house from the start? And the whole song and dance with the Library was done just to hinge on the assumption that Susie would go to the Library if asked but not to Kris’ house? She’s not exactly a “Library” type of person, you know.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Susie in the library saying “Books. God. Damn. Crazy about them.”  End image transcript]

Cyber World’s Origin

Remember when I said I’d get back to the topic of when the Cyber World was created and whether Kris had the opportunity to do so? Yeah, that’s now. If you thought I was being nitpicky about narrative coherence before, buckle up.

Probably the biggest issues with Knight Kris crop up when we try to break down the sequence of events that lead to the creation of Cyber World’s fountain. Queen says that her fountain was created “today,” which may or may not include the extreme late night/early morning hours when Kris would’ve had to have made the fountain. Let’s say that this counts as the same day, which it technically does.

Now, the problem is everything that happens between the fountain’s creation and when Kris and Susie end up inside of it. Kris goes through an entire day of school and then spends a fair amount of time setting up the new Castle Town—this can vary per playthrough, but it’s enough time for Noelle and Berdly to get a head start and make it to the Library first.

The point is, Kris left the fountain unattended between night time and mid-to-late afternoon the next day. When Kris and Susie show up at the Library we can see that the building is open and, later, that the computers are turned on. This would mean that the Library staff had to come in to open up the building and power on the equipment, meaning they would’ve discovered the fountain if it had been there all night.

Now, to be fair, the game does make a point of stating that “someone” left the Library’s laptop on.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Kris looking at a laptop in the computer lab. The narration says “(Looks like the library’s state-of-the-art public laptop. Someone left it on.)”  End image transcript]

One could argue that if Kris broke into the Library then perhaps they turned this laptop on in advance, much like how they turned the TV on before opening the fountain at the end of Chapter 2.

On the other hand, the laptop being left on could simply be an in-universe explanation for why Queen’s batteries run out at the end of the Giga Queen fight and why she’s referred to as overheating.

Either way, the laptop being left on would be a moot point since Library staff would still come in to check on things in the morning regardless, especially if someone had left equipment or lights on overnight. On top of that, one of the other computer descriptions states:

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Kris looking at a computer in the computer lab. The narration says “(Someone tried to check their email, but the internet is down.)”  End image transcript]

This would imply that someone else has used the computers in here, likely someone who wasn’t aware that the internet was out. Kris would have little reason to check their email here—not only would that potentially leave incriminating evidence but Kris would be well aware of the internet outage and wouldn’t bother. This is because, according to Alphys, Kris normally stays up all night talking to Asriel online, presumably with the computer at home.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots of Alphys talking to Kris. Alphys says “So maybe you were just… Staying up late talking to Asriel online again? ..ah, wait, you… can’t do that, right? I… I hope the internet gets fixed soon.”  End image transcript]

Now, some of you might be saying that maybe Berdly (who volunteers at the Library) was the one who opened everything up that afternoon.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Berdly talking to Kris in the library. Berdly says “However, Kris, I am a benevolent volunteer assistant.”  End image transcript]

That still doesn’t really explain who was watching over the Library while Berdly was in school. Berdly is just a volunteer assistant so it’s unlikely he’d be trusted with opening the building each day, plus most public Libraries are open during school hours. But maybe we can fudge some details—Toby doesn’t always pay attention to logistics in his writing (notice how Toriel and Kris never seem to eat dinner when they get home?). However, there’s a bigger problem with the timeframe.

When we seal the Cyber World fountain, Berdly and Noelle are both asleep but Kris and Susie aren’t. Kris and Susie weren’t asleep when they made it out of the Chapter 1 fountain, either.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots. In the first, Berdly wakes up in the computer lab after the fountain is sealed and says “H… huh…?” In the second, Susie is standing in the unused classroom after the fountain is sealed and also says “H… huh…?”  End image transcript]

The game even goes as far as giving Berdly and Susie the exact same dialogue when they wake up, yet one of them is clearly sleeping and the other clearly isn’t. In fact, Kris and Susie can jump in and out of the Castle Town fountain as much as they want and they never fall asleep.

What am I getting at here? Simple: fountains don’t put people to sleep. Note that in the Chapter 2 ending Kris waits until everyone has already fallen asleep before they create the new fountain—if fountains just put people to sleep then waiting wouldn’t have been necessary. On top of that, Berdly and Noelle have their books out and are seated at their desks—something that couldn’t have happened if they simply fell into the fountain like Kris and Susie fell into Castle Town.

Remember that each dark world we’ve seen so far has let out an ominous dark aura when opened. Kris and Susie were both frightened by this in Chapter 1, but we’re supposed to believe that Berdly and Noelle would be just fine with walking into a room like that? Keep in mind that this is Noelle before she learned to stand up to her fears.

What’s more, Berdly set an alarm in advance that goes off once the two of them wake up, implying that he considered the possibility of falling asleep (or at least being distracted).

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Berdly in the computer lab saying “H… Huh?? My… my alarm??”  End image transcript]

If that weren’t enough, Berdly’s speech in class at the beginning of Chapter 2 puts Kris to sleep—foreshadowing that it’s not unusual for Berdly to put others to sleep.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Berdly reading aloud in the classroom. In the first, Berdly says “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” In the second, the screen goes black and the narration says “Listening to this, your eyes began to close automatically…”  End image transcript]

Noelle even claims that both she and Berdly fell asleep, with Berdly putting “himself to sleep,” though this should be taken with a grain of salt since Noelle only says this during the Snowgrave route, where she tries extra hard to convince herself that the Dark World was just a dream.

[Image transcript: A transcript of dialogue between Noelle and Rudy. Noelle says “Huh? Me? Of course! I’m fine, dad… I just… I fell asleep in the library, and… you know, just had a weird dream. Haha.” Rudy says “Noelle… I knew that birdbrain’d put you to sleep! Haha! What’d he do? Start lecturing you on his theorem… Of the inequality in children’s fighter games?” Noelle says “Hahah, no, no! He… he fell asleep, too.” Rudy says “Wow, he even put himself to sleep? Ha!” Noelle says “Haha, yeah, I guess so!” End image transcript]

All of this implies that Noelle and Berdly made it into the computer lab with nothing out of the ordinary, then set down their books and fell asleep before the fountain was created. This explanation conforms much more closely with what we see in-game than Kris creating the fountain the night before and it somehow remaining untouched and unnoticed until Berdly and scaredy-cat Noelle willingly walk into a foreboding dark world doorway before somehow finding the desk to study at, Berdly setting his alarm, and then both of them magically being put to sleep after the fact.

The Closet: Cyber World’s Smoking Gun

So then, you may ask, how was this fountain created if not by Kris? The game gives us a pretty easy answer: the Knight hid in the equipment closet and created the fountain there after Noelle and Berdly fell asleep, then “took their leave” immediately after to avoid being caught. The closet door is still open when we find it, which also serves as a tidy explanation for how Kris got the idea to leave their front door open when creating the fountain in their house.

I think the closet is the single strongest piece of evidence that Kris is not the Knight. Why? Ask yourself: why does this room exist? I’m not talking about its function in-universe, I mean why did Toby and his team put this room here and add flavor text for it? Why does the flavor text specify that “a large person could easily fit inside” of the closet?

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Kris inspecting the computer lab’s closet. The narration says “(The closet is spacious and full of old electronics. A large person could easily fit inside.)”  End image transcript]

Why is it a “large” person, specifically? I’ve heard people assume that this is a reference to Snowgrave and Berdly’s eventual fate, but Berdly is certainly not a “large” person. Why is this here? And why is the flavor text the same on all routes?

I’ll tell you why the closet is there. It’s the same reason why the pie is there at the end of Chapter 1: to give Kris an out. Only this time there’s no way to claim that this is Kris making some kind of esoteric bluff to fool the player, like I’ve seen some people suggest the pie eating was. Kris is not a large person. Berdly is not a large person. You probably wouldn’t even assume that a person could fit in that equipment closet unless the game outright told you, which it does. The description is very conspicuous, frankly. And why? Why do we need to know not just that a person can fit in there, but a large person?

You can’t even really argue that the closet is misdirection on Toby’s part either, because most players either don’t think much of the closet or (as we’ve seen) have drawn the wrong conclusions from it. Like the reveal that lightners have determination, the closet would be very weak misdirection because it doesn’t even point to anyone specific—it merely suggests that the Knight could be someone other than Kris.

The full implications of the closet don’t even make sense until we see Kris leave the front door open in their house, which would render the closet meaningless if it were a misdirection rather than foreshadowing that Kris’ knighthood is another fake-out. It’s the pie all over again.

Castle Town: The Odd Man Out

Claiming that Kris is the Knight also introduces another wrinkle: there’s almost no way that Kris (or anyone, for that matter) could have created all of the previous fountains single-handedly. Why is this? Because of Castle Town. Ralsei describes his fountain as a “grand” dark fountain that allows all darkners to exist within it.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Ralsei talking to Susie. Ralsei says “Castle Town’s Grand Fountain is made of pure darkness. As long as it stays flowing, any Darkner can live there.”  End image transcript]

This means that his fountain is special, and it’s implied via omission that Ralsei’s fountain is supposed to remain open and (presumably) does not pose a threat to the world’s balance like the other fountains do.

In other words, there’s a strong possibility that Ralsei’s fountain was not made the same way or even by the same person as the other fountains we’ve seen.  Why would someone start by making a “grand” fountain and then make inferior fountains afterwards? If anything you’d think the Knight would be getting better at this with each attempt. So even if one were to argue that Kris made the Library and Card Castle dark worlds, they almost certainly did not create Castle Town as well, meaning that there is at least one other character out there who’s created fountains before.

Kris: Master of Disguise?

Another nagging issue is the question of why no darkners ever recognize Kris. Admittedly this is a murky issue (literally) since Queen’s records show that the cyber fountain’s creation obscured the Knight’s face.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots of Swatchlings watching footage of Cyber World’s creation. In the first two, the narration says “(It’s a video of someone creating a strange pillar of smoke. There’s so much smoke, it’s hard to tell who it is.)” In the bottom two, a Swatchling says “The QUEEN has been very interested in this video recently. Where the KNIGHT creates the Fountain by its own hand…” End image transcript]

However, we’re later told that Queen was still able to identify the Knight’s hand, their blade, and the method they used to create the fountain. All darkners seem to be in agreement that the Knight exists, so they must have at least some knowledge of and/or experience with them, even if that amounts to witnessing their fountain’s creation.

Maybe it’s just me but it feels very selective and muddled that Queen is able to pick out some key details about the Knight but, supposedly, not others. I say “supposedly” because Queen never outright says that she never saw the Knight’s face—the narration just says that we can’t tell who it is from the footage, after the fountain has been created. Queen knows how the fountain was created, implying she (and/or any camera equipment in the computer lab) was able to see how the Knight did it before the fountain erupted, meaning she would’ve seen their face.

Claiming that Queen couldn’t see the Knight clearly is the only possible explanation for why Queen and the other darkners never mistake Kris for the Knight. Nobody even draws any sort of comparison between them. Queen doesn’t even make a connection between the Knight and Kris both wielding a blade, despite bladed weapons being much rarer in Cyber World than they are in, say, Card Castle.

This idea strains credulity when we break down specific characters and their perspectives on the Knight. The King of Spades is devoted to the Knight but also hates Lightners. While I do think that the Knight is a lightner (regardless of who they actually are), the irony of that fact almost becomes farcical when the King nearly kills the alleged Knight without once making the connection.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of King threatening Kris. King says “Quiet people PISS ME OFF.”  End image transcript]

Then again, Toriel blasts away Flowey in Undertale’s introductory sequence without ever knowing that she OHKO’d her own son.

Spamton and Jevil both know about the Knight and seem privy to special knowledge of future events, with Jevil predicting the return of the Queen.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Jevil talking to the three heroes. Jevil says “THE HAND OF THE KNIGHT IS DRIFTING FORWARD. SOON, THE “QUEEN” RETURNS, AND HELL’S ROAR BUBBLES FROM THE DEPTHS…”  End image transcript]

And yet, neither of them imply that Kris is the Knight. In fact, Jevil doesn’t even recognize Kris on their first meeting.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of the three heroes outside of Jevil’s cell. Jevil says “BUT LO, THREE VISITORS STANDING INSIDE? WHO ARE YOU FEW?”  End image transcript]

Spamton refers to Kris and the Knight as separate beings, which wouldn’t be the case even when taking the Soul into account.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Spamton saying “KRIS, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE KNIGHT…”  End image transcript]

Jevil does allude to how “a nightmare will awaken in your hearts,” but this is addressed to the “lightners” and not Kris specifically.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots of Jevil talking to the three heroes. Jevil says “UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KIDS CANNOT HAVE SUCH A PLEASANT DREAM. FROM NOW, A NIGHTMARE WILL AWAKEN IN YOUR HEARTS. IN THE SHADOW OF THE KNIGHT’S HAND… LIGHTNERS, CAN YOU STOP IT?”  End image transcript]

If Kris lacks their own soul, like a lot of fans suspect, then there’s no way this line could apply solely to Kris under any interpretation.

As I’ve already mentioned, it feels inconsistent for the Queen to somehow know so much about the Knight while apparently knowing so little if it’s Kris. Unlike many darkners, Queen pays quite a lot of attention to Kris, forming a truce with them and designing a special room based around their search history.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Queen talking to a locked-up Kris. Queen says “As You Can See They Are Perfectly Suited To Your Interests (Which I Gleaned From Your Internet Search Results)”  End image transcript]

Queen has studied both the Knight and Kris meticulously and somehow never makes any connection between them.

Granted, Queen is also never able to make the connection between Noelle and Kris’ new “robotic” friend.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Queen talking to Kris and Noelle. Noelle is wearing a box on her head. Queen says “Who Is Your Friend My Face Recognition Software Does Not Compute Them”  End image transcript]

However, this is specifically chalked up to a failure in the Queen’s face recognition software. Kris has the same facial features in the light and dark world and we didn’t see them bother to wear a disguise when they open a fountain, so there’s really no concrete reason for Queen or any other darkner to not notice a similarity.

Undertale vs. Deltarune: A Case of Mistaken Identity

Let’s compare Kris to another game protagonist who has a case of mistaken identity with an unseen mystery character: Frisk. A major twist in Undertale is that Frisk is initially mistaken for Chara before being revealed as a separate individual.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Asriel talking to Frisk. Asriel says “You’re not actually Chara, are you?”  End image transcript]

Toby even goes so far as to try to trick the player into thinking that Frisk is Chara by asking to name the fallen human without specifying which fallen human was being named.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of the name entry screen from Undertale. The text at the top says “Name the fallen human.”  End image transcript]

Undertale covers its bases by having a large gap in time between Chara and Frisk’s entries into the Underground, which explains why all monsters don’t immediately mistake Frisk for Chara (or, conversely, clarify that they’re not the same). Most living monsters only know of Chara through old stories.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of three Moldsmalls reciting a story. They say “Over time, ASRIEL and the human became like siblings. The King and Queen treated the human child as their own. The underground was full of hope.”  End image transcript]

Two monsters who did know Chara, Toriel and Asgore, both have interactions with Frisk that can be tied to their memories of Chara. Toriel’s treatment of Frisk in the Ruins clearly comes off as an attempt to recapture her experience with Chara.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Toriel and Frisk outside the bedroom in Toriel’s house. Toriel says “A room of your own. I hope you like it!” before patting Frisk on the head.  End image transcript]

Asgore outright says that Frisk reminds him of Chara.

[Image transcript: Three screenshots of a defeated Asgore speaking to Frisk. Asgore says “Young one, when I look at you… I’m reminded of the human that fell here long ago… You have the same feeling of hope in your eyes.” End image transcript]

Flowey’s interactions with Frisk are the most blatant example of mistaken identity, to the point where the emotional climax of the game revolves around this association. Compare this to Deltarune, where the supposed protagonist is actually the secret antagonist all along… and not a single character makes the connection. It would be like if Toriel, Asgore, and Flowey never once compare Frisk to Chara despite both humans still closely resembling one another. Hell, in Deltarune’s case Kris and the Knight would be identical to one another because they’re literally the same person.

You see what I’m getting at? Hinging a major twist around one character secretly being another doesn’t work when a huge chunk of the cast has supposedly seen both characters, or at least knows of them, but never makes the connection between them, not even for thematic/foreshadowing purposes—what kind of writing is that?

One could argue that doing so would have made the twist too obvious, but Queen’s demonstration of the Knight’s blade opening the fountain is pretty on-the-nose. And it’s not like Toby doesn’t know how to compare two characters in a way that doesn’t make you think they’re the same person.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots of Undyne talking to Frisk. Undyne says “You know… It’s kind of strange you chose THAT tea. That’s ASGORE’s favorite kind. You kind of remind me of him. You’re both TOTAL weenies!!!”  End image transcript]

Pacing Issues

Speaking of on-the-nose, another thing that really bugs me about Kris being the Knight is the way the reveal is paced. The Knight’s identity was seemingly meant to be built up as a big mystery. The Knight is seldom mentioned in Chapter 1, to the point where a lot of first time players didn’t even know the Knight existed. The Queen’s speech lays things out on the table so that every player is up to speed and now knows about the Knight.

Before we can even fully digest this information, however, we’re given a visual presentation that all but tells us that Kris is the Knight. There’s a brief “misdirection” where we’re meant to ponder that any lightner could be the Knight, but no alternative suspects are presented and then the ending doubles down on Kris being the Knight.

Maybe it’s just me but having your big reveal 2/7ths into your story doesn’t seem like a well-structured mystery. It also makes me wonder where the plot can go from here beyond revealing Kris’ motivation and having the rest of the cast play catchup. If there’s an important reason for this “reveal” being so early then it makes me wonder why Toby didn’t push the mystery of the Knight more in Chapter 1. Susie and Ralsei never once even comment on the Knight in Chapter 1, and if they don’t care then why should we?

The timing of this reveal just feels way too frontloaded, but it makes perfect sense for a red herring. By definition, red herrings in mystery stories are built up and revealed before the reveal of a true culprit—they wouldn’t be red herrings if it were done any other way.

Toby also needed a big moment to end Chapter 2 on. He already fooled us once with Chapter 1’s ending so he needed to up the ante—it had to be something that Kris actually does for real, even if we’re meant to draw the wrong conclusion from it.

Asgore and the Knight

Admittedly, pacing is subjective, but even by Toby’s standards the Knight “mystery” doesn’t add up if the answer is Kris. Compare the Knight’s “reveal” to the mystery of Asgore in Undertale. Both the Knight and Asgore are mysterious, unseen antagonists who are implied to be at the root of every threat you face.

The first area in Undertale and the first Chapter of Deltarune both end with the main boss telling you about your arch-rival.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. The left two are of Toriel talking to Frisk. Toriel says “You naïve child… If you leave the RUINS… They… ASGORE… Will kill you.” In the right two, the King says “For the KNIGHT has appeared. The KNIGHT that pulls the Fountains from the Earth.”  End image transcript]

The second area and second chapter provide additional context for the threat (albeit with Papyrus referring to “the King” rather than Asgore directly).

[Image transcript: Four screenshots. The left two are Papyrus talking to Frisk. Papyrus says “THAT’S WHY THE KING WANTS TO ACQUIRE A HUMAN. HE WANTS TO OPEN THE BARRIER WITH SOUL POWER.” The right two are Queen saying “The Roaring Knight… Today, It Deigned To Create This World”  End image transcript]

So far the pacing of both games’ mysteries lines up before the sudden “reveal” at the end of Chapter 2.

In Undertale, Waterfall reveals that Asgore is the King and we learn his master plan, but this is hardly the end of the mystery.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Undyne talking to Frisk. Undyne says “King ASGORE Dreemurr… He will finally take the surface back from humanity…”  End image transcript]

We still don’t know who Asgore really is as a person, his connection with Toriel, nor do we know his underlying motivation for his plans. Information is doled out gradually and we mull over the conflicting accounts of Asgore’s personality in our heads before we finally meet him face to face.

Imagine if the Asgore reveal had been paced and structured like the “Knight” reveal. Imagine Toriel lecturing us up front about Asgore and his plans to become godlike instead of that information being saved for Waterfall. Imagine walking out into Snowdin or Waterfall and seeing Asgore, in person, stealing a human’s soul right in front of us. It would make for a shocking moment, certainly, but then what? There’s still over half the game left but nothing more to build up Asgore beyond learning his underlying motivation. Worse yet, this would deflate the tension for the next few areas because Undyne and Mettaton would pale in comparison to the bigger threat that is now a known threat.

Deltarune runs such a risk if Kris is the Knight—now what? We were already dealing with a narrative where our player character is seemingly at odds with us—making Kris the Knight doesn’t really change that dynamic. It would also make future dark worlds feel like a waste of time because they would bring us no closer to dealing with the actual threat that’s right in front of us.

There is potential dramatic irony to be had from Kris being the Knight and darkners not knowing it, but I’ve already gone over how this idea, while interesting, feels a bit contrived. There is the anticipation of the other shoe dropping when Susie and Ralsei find out what Kris did, but this would still hold true about the fountain in Toriel’s house if Kris is a red herring.

In fact, pretty much any narrative potential that could be rung out of Kris being the Knight can still be achieved by having Kris be a red herring—either way they still made a fountain and the story has to deal with that. Chapter 3 will presumably focus on the dark world they’ve created, and there could be all sorts of ironic moments where the darkners they’ve given form to notice an uncanny resemblance or risk blowing Kris’ cover.

Where Kris’ Story is Heading

I think that Kris being a red herring for the Knight not only frees up the story to explore other potential antagonists but I also think it would result in a more fulfilling arc for Kris. That might seem counter-intuitive, since red herrings are often seen as “dead ends” in mystery stories, but for Kris I think this role is meant to mirror their eventual role in the story and how we’re meant to perceive them. In fact, Chapter 2 already seems to be setting Kris up for such an arc in ways beyond just hinting that they’re the Knight.

Take for instance that the end of Chapter 2 sets up a number of things in Hometown that are left hanging: Kris swipes the Library objects that constituted the darkners in Cyber City.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of the computer lab fading to black. The narration says “(Before you left, you gathered up everything in the room…)”  End image transcript]

Notably, the game does not allow us to go back into the computer lab to see what was taken.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Kris looking at the door to the computer lab. The narration says “No reason to go back in there.”  End image transcript]

One of the objects in the room is said to be a “state of the art” laptop, which would be sorely missed if Kris took it.

[Image transcript: A screenshot of Kris looking at a laptop. The narration says “(Looks like the library’s state-of-the-art public laptop.)”  End image transcript]

Unlike the ball of trash that Kris took from the classroom, Kris isn’t merely moving these objects from one room to another. Legally-speaking, Kris stole them. And this isn’t the first time we’ve seen Kris steal something without compunction.

[Image transcript: Four screenshots of Kris, Susie, and Ralsei in Noelle’s mansion room. In the first, Ralsei says “Huh? Umm… th-that would be stealing…” In the second, the narration says “(You stole the Susie-like Statue…)” In the third, Susie says “Hey Kris, take this for your room.” In the fourth, the narration says “(You stole the ICE-E statue for some reason.)”  End image transcript]

Kris’ actions in the Library could have serious consequences, and sooner than you might think. The cops are on their way to Toriel’s house at the end of Chapter 2, though her call with them implies that they were busy for a while before she was able to reach them.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Toriel on the phone. Toriel says “Officer…? Officer…? Thank goodness, I finally go through…”  End image transcript]

We know from Undyne that nothing ever seems to happen in this town.

[Image transcript: Two screenshots of Undyne talking to Kris. Undyne says “This job is SO boring. Nothing EVER happens in this town! Ngh… I just wish SOMETHING would shake things up!”  End image transcript]

So what could have happened that day that would be occupying the police (besides recapturing the wet-nose bandits, anyway)? I think you know what I’m getting at.

So why does it matter whether Kris stole the library equipment or whether the cops find out? Because it’s meant to serve as a parallel to our own perceptions of Kris, or at least what Toby wants us to think of them. While the cops would be viewing Kris as a criminal, we would be viewing Kris as the Knight—our enemy. However, both of these accusations would be leaving out crucial context. In the case of the stolen goods, we know this was done for the sake of the darkners, who didn’t want to be abandoned. In the case of the “Knight,” Kris may not be the real Knight at all, but regardless we don’t know their full motivation for opening a fountain in their house.

From here the narrative could go in a few directions: Kris’ friends and family could have their faith in them tested by these revelations, just like our own faith would be. Like previous chapters, Kris could end up imprisoned, only this time they don’t have their handy dark world allies to save them.

What they do have, however, is the Soul. This could be a turning point in the seemingly antagonistic relationship between Kris and the Soul, where they’re forced to rely upon the Soul to slip through the bars and go get help (from Susie, perhaps?).

Now I will fully admit that most of this is speculation on my part, bordering on fan fiction. However, this is just one possible example of how making Kris a red herring would add to the narrative rather than take anything away. Besides, it would be a great chapter cliffhanger if we all think the “Knight” has been dealt with once Kris and their friends come to terms, only for a new fountain to erupt on the horizon—the handiwork of the true Knight.

Toby’s Conception of the Knight

One last thing I wanted to touch on was a comment that Toby made about an unused intro theme during his Deltarune Chapter 1 stream on Undertale’s 6th anniversary (at ~23:27):

“The arrangement is really early, but I created this thinking of an animated intro for the game, similar to Wild Arms. I still see it in my head when I listen to the song.

The best part would have been at the end when everyone is running up the staircase as the silhouettes of the bosses from all the chapters show up, and the Knight, standing in a white door at the top of the stairs, turns around and looks down at them…”

This is one of the few times that Toby has directly spoken about the Knight in any capacity. I’ll state up front that any implications from this quote should be taken with a grain of salt since it relates to an unused song for a hypothetical animation that may have never been planned to be made. However, it’s possible (not certain, just possible) that this sheds some light on the Knight’s role in the game and how Toby views them.

For starters, Toby specifies that the chapter bosses are only seen in silhouette, implying that this intro would not be meant to spoil the full game’s story. The Knight is seen at the top of a staircase that “everyone” is running up. Presumably, “everyone” would include the three heroes and possibly their allies. This creates quite a conundrum if Kris is the Knight, especially if the intro is meant to be spoiler-free.

It wouldn’t make sense for Kris to be in two places at once here. The fun gang would be incomplete without them, and nobody else can really fill in for the role of Knight, correct? Some might suggest that the discarded Vessel could either be the true Knight or Kris’ replacement in the fun gang. While I do think the Vessel will play some role in the full game, showing this in the intro would be a far more massive spoiler than revealing the chapter bosses early.

We’ve also seen what Kris looks like when they open a fountain—there’s no disguise that they wear or anything that could really hide their identity as the Knight. Even a silhouette would make it pretty obvious that the Knight is a human, regardless of whether it’s Kris’ light or dark world form. The only way this conceptual intro would make any sense without spoiling anything would be if Kris is not the Knight.

Again, that is a big assumption to make on my part but I also think that a direct comment from Toby about his planning and creative process shouldn’t be entirely disregarded, even if nothing ultimately comes of it.

Until Next Time

So I’m not too keen on the idea of Kris being the one and only Knight, as you might’ve guessed. I was originally planning to make this Kris analysis just one section of my next Everyman analysis, but it quickly ballooned out of control and I realized I’d be doing a disservice to the topic if I didn’t fully explore it.

Despite making this into a separate analysis, I can’t fully uncouple my perspective on Kris from my prior Knight theories. It would be wrong of me to dismiss the idea of Kris being the Knight out of hand just because I had a competing theory, so I wanted to go as in-depth with this post as I was able, even if I may retain a certain level of bias.

It’s possible that I may have missed some key argument or clue relating to Kris. We’re only 2-3 months out from Chapter 2’s release so the “meta” is not completely settled yet. If something comes to my attention then I’ll try to address it in my next post.

There’s also the possibility that Toby will introduce some new lore that will neatly address every issue and nitpick I’ve raised and Kris being the Knight will make perfect sense. Maybe Kris teleported into the Library via one of Sans’ shortcuts, or maybe Castle Town’s unique grand fountain was made using an ancient artifact that broke, or maybe Kris’ motivation for being the Knight is that they have to open a fountain every 24 hours or else something bad happens. Maybe these aren’t likely explanations, but darkners turning into statues and fountains creating Titans weren’t on my radar during Chapter 1 either.

To tell the truth, I spent the first few weeks after Chapter 2 believing that Kris most likely was the Knight. I had some doubts but didn’t yet have the basis to form any coherent counter-argument. Moreover, I acknowledged then and still acknowledge now that my Everyman theory did get several things wrong—I will go over those in more detail in my next analysis, but I braced for the possibility of my theory being blown out of the water well before Chapter 2 dropped.

Ultimately it was other theorists in the community that helped me look at the Knight from another angle and realize that the game’s evidence for Kris wasn’t as solid as it seemed on the surface. I’ve also had time to reassess my own theories and realize that some of my ideas were more prescient than I had assumed.

I think that even if I’m wrong and Kris is supposed to be “the Knight,” I think there’s virtually no chance that (1) they created the Castle Town fountain the same way as the other fountains and (2) Kris will be the only character to create fountains for the rest of the story.

If you ask me, there’s another Knight lurking in Hometown—one who’s struck before and will strike again. And the time when we will face them is fast approaching.

[kytea]

The True Nature of Deltarune

Deltarune Chapter 1 has been out for over a year now, and being the big UT/DR fan that I am, I’ve been slowly mulling over both games, reading many fan theories and putting together my own interpretation of what I believe the nature and goal of Deltarune will be. This will be a long one so grab some popcorn, put on your matpat hats and click to keep reading!

So what is Deltarune? Is it a sequel to Undertale? Is it a prequel? Is it an alternate universe? Is it the coming of age story of a bunch of teens? Is it a complex meta-narrative on the nature of video games?

The answer is yes to all of the above. And to begin delving into this we must first understand the creator of this game: Toby Fox.

I won’t toot Toby’s Fox’s horn too much, we all know how talented and hardworking he is, but he’s also very emotionally perceptive and empathic. His general disposition is reminiscent of avant-garde artists that push the boundaries of artistic creation in a medium.

Toby loves mysteries, and in the early version of Undertale there was an included file that disparaged hackers and went on to say that it’s difficult to add mysteries in games these days due to data miners and such.

Thankfully, this did not stop Toby from lovingly adding quite a few big mysteries to Undertale that have yet to be resolved. Knowing Toby and his strong desire to share his story, a story that according to him, kept him awake at night:

“For the past 3 years I've been waking up in the middle of the night unable to go back to sleep because I've been thinking about the scenes that happen in the game. Even though so many details are still hazy, I really want to show you the things I've been thinking about.That's really my only reason for making this game. If I don't show you what I'm thinking, I'll lose my mind.“

I don’t believe Toby will let these mysteries go unanswered, and it is here that we can begin to understand what Deltarune is about.

The Mystery of W.D. Gaster

Truly, the biggest mystery of Undertale is that of W.D. Gaster: former royal scientist, creator of the CORE and the Determination Extraction machine.

A player can go through the entirety of Undertale multiple times and never even hear word of Gaster’s existence. This is because all the events that pertain to him are hidden behind a value in the game’s files known as the “FUN value”. Outside of actually manipulating this file manually yourself, it is, to the average player, random. The FUN value can trigger multiple different events throughout the game, some of which include running into “Followers of Gaster” or even Gaster himself.

While the latter has nothing to say before he “boings” out of existence, the former Followers all tell an eerie tale of a scientist who fell into his own creation and was scattered across time and space.

But hold on. Time and space? Why does that sound familiar?

Ah yes, during the Sans battle he speaks about an “massive anomaly in the timespace continuum”.

And during this battle Sans says a lot of other cryptic things without context, for example, he laments not being able to “go back” somewhere. But where or when is he referring to?

He mentions how he and others were monitoring time-lines and their readings showed them stopping and starting, jumping left and right, and eventually ending. Who was he monitoring these readings with? This all seems incredibly scientific and sci-fi, I thought Sans was just a silly skeleton, is he some kind of time cop? (he does have a “badge” in his workshop) He also uses skeletal weapons known as “Gaster Blasters”.

What…? Gaster Blaster?

Okay, now we KNOW Sans DEFINITELY has some connection to this mysterious scientist W.D. Gaster, but what? Well, for starters W.D. Gaster is short for Wing Dings Gaster, a type of font that he also speaks in.

Who else is named after and speaks in specific font types? Sans and Papyrus of course!

Furthermore, in the concept sketches for Papyrus, Toby wrote and redacted parts of a message that says: “has a brother named comic sans and a [BLANK] named [BLANK]”.

Who is this mysterious redacted person and what is their relationship to Sans and Papyrus? The easy money is on a family member, and for sake of argument lets use the prediction most of the fandom has already concluded and accepted: that Sans and Papyrus have a father named Gaster.

So Sans and Papyrus have a long lost father that was a scientist. This explanation would begin to explain why Sans has a weapon named after him, and why he wanted to “go back” to some place or time, perhaps in an effort to save him from his fate.

There’s a hidden event in Undertale where if you reset after listening to Sans speak about LOVE and EXP in a pacifist route, and initiate the conversion a couple of times in a row, he’ll catch on by the expression your face that you’ve heard it before and will surmise that you’re a time traveller and give you secret code words to tell his past self.

This will lead to him giving you the key to his room which ends up just being a prank at first.

But then you find a key to the secret workshop/basement hidden behind his house.

Once you enter the workshop, you’ll find some blueprints written in symbols you can’t read (wing dings?) and a curtain covering a machine that doesn’t seem to be working, among other things.

Toby Fox tweeted a message regarding this machine a few days after Undertale’s release around the time people were figuring out FUN values and the secrets surrounding Sans and Gaster.

“You’ve all seen the happiest outcome. Neither of them could fix the machine, no matter how hard they tried. No one can.”

This tweet seems to imply that if the machine could be fixed that Undertale could have a happier outcome.

And this my friends, is the gateway to the nature of Deltarune.

Deltarune, according to Toby Fox, is a game for players that have completed Undertale. But what does it mean to complete Undertale, and I mean, TRULY complete it? Toby often expressed that he wasn’t happy with how people told others how to play the game, that it is best played completely blind. Having played Undertale blind myself, and having watched others do the same, the natural way the game is meant to progress is that first players will experience the Neutral Ending, followed by the Pacifist Ending, and Finally the Genocide ending. This is because the game cruelly plays against your expectations of how an RPG should work and this almost guarantees that you will kill at least one monster your first play through. As if the fact that the fight button is always the default position in battle isn’t enough, in the early parts of the game you are told that you may need to weaken a monster before you can spare them. This naturally brings to mind the systems of Pokémon, where you have the best chance to catch a Pokémon if it’s at low health. Well, if you try this during the Toriel fight, as most do, you’ll find that as soon as you get close to critical health, you’ll instantly kill her.

Poor goat mama..

Difficulty-wise, the neutral route is the most easy, because you can level up a little and gain more HP. The Pacifist route is a bit harder because your HP is lower, but with the experience you gain from the previous route, it should prove no problem. Finally the Genocide route is the most difficult because it takes a concerted effort that implies knowledge of the previous routes to kill every single monster.

So an ideal Deltarune player has knowledge of all three main routes of Undertale, and may have experienced or heard of Gaster.

Is this player you? If so, ask yourself, what would a “happier outcome” look like to you? And be honest. Many fans in the Undertale community have already answered this question in the form of fanworks. Some of the most common elements among them are as follows:



1) Frisk and all the monsters are free from the Underground and living on the surface with humans.

2) Asriel is revived.

3) Gaster is revived.

4 )Chara is revived.

The revival of Asriel, Chara, and Gaster are the undisputed holy grails in terms of happiest endings that the UT community dreams of and creates endless fan works to explore the possibilities. Toby knows this well.

Using a speech pattern attributed to Gaster, Toby teased the release of Deltarune Chapter 1

“I LOOK FORWARD TO CREATING A NEW FUTURE WITH YOU.” stands out quite a bit to me as the prospect of a “happier outcome” is already tied to Gaster and Sans, now a “new future” is connected.

And when Deltarune released, and fans had a chance to play it, they found:

1) All the monsters are free and living on the surface.

2) Asriel is alive and well and living his best life.

3) A voice with the same speech pattern as Gaster (based on Japanese text) brought you to this world and attempted to give your own vessel before…

4)…a voice with the same speech pattern as Chara (also based on Japanese text) discarded it.

Right off the bat Toby seems to have given fans what they wanted, a perfect future ending. But as you continue to play, you begin to realize that this may not be the world you dreamed of.

First, while all the monsters are living on the surface, they aren’t the same people from Undertale, for example: Undyne has never met Alphys, and the amalgamates that went to live with their families at the end of Undertale are deceased in this world. And while Asriel is alive, it’s not THE Asriel we were so determined to save in Undertale.

Gaster’s presence permeates Deltarune so thoroughly it would take awhile to point out every example, but it seems clear that he’s present in some form.

And Chara? You only need to see the ending cutscene of chapter 1 to know that they are around in a similar fashion as when they possess Frisk in the True Pacifist after a Genocide ending.

But their presence is also present in subtle ways. For example, if you attempt to play the piano in the hospital in Hometown and then speak to the receptionist, she comments that Kris’ playing isn’t the same as usual (Likely due to our control), but it seems that Chara may be good at piano. Interestingly, on the cover artwork for the official Undertale Piano Collection 2 book, Frisk can be seen holding a knife playing a key on a piano in the judgement hall filled with bones.

So for better or worse, what appears to be the original Chara and Gaster from Undertale are present in Deltarune, in some meta form or another. And maybe that’s the key: “Meta-characters”. After all, you yourself as a player are a “Meta-character”. You can ask the inhabitants of this new world questions that only someone with knowledge of a True Pacifist route would have, such as being able to ask Undyne about Alphys. Asking her this only makes sense if you yourself completed a True Pacifist route before playing Deltarune.

Ralsei, the lonely prince.

Toby being the trickster dog he is, he didn’t just give us 1 Asriel and call it a day, no he gave us 2.

Ralsei is quite clearly meant to be a version of Asriel because not only do they have similar or identical dialogues, but he was also was meant to look more like him before Toby decided to give him his Black Mage look.

There are even strong parallels obviously meant to create an emotional response and connect Ralsei to the feelings people had for Asriel in Undertale by giving the players the option to hug him.

Ralsei is quite the mystery on his own. And while he’s most certainly sweet and lovable, there’s undeniably some disconcerting things about him such as:

-Why does he know Kris and Susie’s names?

-Who did he learn the prophecy from? “Foretold by time and space” isn’t a good answer (or is it?).

-What did he say to Kris when the player SOUL wasn’t present in the prison?

-When he’s KO’d in battle, what does he become? Apparently he can still eat to regain HP when in this shrunken form.

Ralsei seemed to be under the impression that violence wasn’t needed in this world, but upon nearly being defeated by the King after mistakenly healing him, Ralsei says “This isn’t a world where kindness always wins, is it?”

The way he says this seems to imply he knows of other worlds and that they have different rules. Perhaps he comes from a world where someone being kind to everyone they met had great results?

There are definitely things that Ralsei is not telling us, whether this means he’s up to no good will remain to be seen, however, I would like to take this opportunity to make a prediction based on the previous understanding that the original Chara and Gaster are present in this new world in meta forms, and assert that Undertale Asriel, the final piece of the perfect ending puzzle is present in Deltarune in his own meta-character form of Ralsei. Perhaps the form he shrinks into when KO’d is one we know well...

There is that unused Flowey face...

Add glasses and a hat and...

but that’s just a game theory!

And I can't help but wonder about the dark heart on Ralsei's chest and this merchandise in the Deltarune section of fangamer that specifically features a quote from Undertale about the prophecy of Delta Rune (that turns out to be about Asriel in the TP ending, and Chara in the Genocide ending) "There is a prophecy. The Angel... The One Who Has Seen The Surface... They will return. And the underground will go empty."

It's also the Deltarune game logo

Because the merchandise is called Darkheart, it made me immediately think of the dark heart on Ralsei's chest, and having an Undertale quote about Asriel/Chara makes it all the more mysterious...

Regardless, in just the first chapter of Deltarune, the elements of the “happier outcome” connected to Sans’ machine are present. But how do they all connect? Well, let’s look at the other characters in Deltarune, starting with:

Lancer

Oh Baby Santa Claus, how we love you so. It’s hard to overlook how similar Lancer is to Sans. They’re both hilarious in their own way, both ride bikes, have similar color-schemes, both have a love for tomato-based products, and both have some scientific/engineering affinity (Sans and his workshop, Lancer and his “Lancer Industries”).

But that’s not all, the door to Sans’ room is identical to the warp doors found in the Dark World that Lancer hails from, and Sans’ warp ability also makes the same sound effect as these doors as well.

Lancer is a member of the FUN gang (remember the FUN value?), that, as far as we know currently, has 3 other members besides himself: Kris, Ralsei, and Susie (with the possibility of Noelle and others in the future).

Speaking of Susie, her name (or a version of it) popped up in Undertale prior to Deltarune’s release when the game was released on the Switch. By speaking to the Gaster Follower “Clamgirl”, you can learn of a girl named “Suzy”, that you will meet her soon, and that “in life’s grand scheme, she might be why you came here in the first place...”

Upon receiving this dialogue, checking the drawers in Sans workshop will reveal a card with a drawing of 3 people smiling and the words “don’t forget”.

“Don’t Forget” is the vocal theme of Deltarune sung by Laura Shigihara, and the melody from the ending verse,“Don’t forget, I’m with you in the dark.”, is leitmotifed throughout the entire Deltarune chapter 1 OST. The connections between Sans, the FUN gang, Gaster, and by extension Undertale and Deltarune are quite apparent. Perhaps the actions of the FUN gang in the Deltarune world will have an affect on the FUN value in Undertale.

Based on all the evidence we have now, I am going to make a bold prediction:

Lancer is literally a younger Sans.

That’s right, Toby Fox made Baby Sans before Disney and Sega made Baby Yoda and Baby Sonic.

Deltarune’s Dark World is the past from the perspective of Sans and Gaster (or a recreation of it). How Lancer becomes Sans will likely be a very large part of Deltarune’s narrative, and once he becomes Sans, he will exist as a separate meta entity that can traverse different worlds, even if versions of himself already exist in some form there (similar to Ralsei and Asriel).

We’ve seen that if characters are exposed to elements that make it clear they live in a video game world, whether this be Determination for humans and Flowey, a time-space accident for Gaster, or a strange man whispering to Jevil, these characters become something wholly different, more powerful, and begin to become more similar to players with the ability to SAVE, RESET, or use abilities that seem beyond the scope of the game (e.g. Photoshop Flowey, Jevil’s ability to speak, etc). Undertale and Deltarune are video games about video games.

So if it is to be believed that Gaster is Sans’ father, and that Lancer is a younger Sans, then it stands to logical reason that whoever Lancer’s father is, that they must be Gaster.

No, not the King, there is another. A “Lesser-dad”.

Yes, Rouxls Kaard.

“GOD DAMNIT”

Rouxls Kaard, or “Rules Card”, or if you rearrange his name “A Dark Soul Rx”, wait, Rx as in prescription? As in a doctor? Dark Soul as in Mr. Darkness Gaster himself? Too much of a stretch? Maybe. Although you can’t deny they have similar appearances.

If Rouxls Kaard is Gaster, and therefore the father of Sans and Papyrus, then he’s undeniably similar to one of his sons. Rouxls Kaard seems to be quite passionate about puzzles, (despite not having a natural predilection to them). I could see Papyrus gaining an affinity for puzzles by being raised by such an individual, they both have quite flamboyant personalities. And let’s not forget that there are also hints that Rouxls Kaard may be inclined to creating scientific devices such as the “Control Crowne” he uses to control K.Round.

Hmm, controlling other people… sounds familiar to what we the player are doing to Kris… and who was it that was initially going to give us control of a vessel before we lost said control to Chara’s intervention? Control seems to play a big part in Deltarune doesn’t it?

Also, isn’t his manner of speech is reminiscent of a silly ye olde knight. Wait, wasn’t there a Knight causing trouble in the Dark World? Hm.

So something is going to turn Lancer and Rouxls Kaard into Sans and Gaster, respectively.

Now remember the CORE that Gaster built? This one?

It turns geothermal energy into magical electricity via an unknown means with one of the byproducts being ozone, which is corrosive and could potentially make someone very melty. This is what it looks like on the inside.

Lots of blues of varying hues with white accents. Kinda reminds me of Rouxls Kaard and the other “card” people’s color schemes.

What a coincidence! Oh and apparently the layout of the CORE can be re-arranged or something:

"I work at the CORE. The inside is a maze made of swappable parts... That means we can shuffle the layout at will." - Hotland NPC

Almost sounds like a sliding puzzle…

Finally, Gaster is referred to as “The man who speaks in hands”, likely due to his Wing Dings font that contains a lot of hand symbols, however, it isn’t a stretch to also apply that epithet to Rouxls Kaard, after all, the Rules Card speaks in hands as well. Hands of cards.

Susie

Can’t forget Susie. Unfortunately, there’s not much we can say about how her role in all this will play yet. If we are to believe that the “Suzy” that Clamgirl references is Susie, then it’s clear that she’ll be key, perhaps as a catalyst for all the big changes some characters will need to undergo...

I will say that I think it’s interesting that toby specifically has a character in Hometown comment that humans are made of blood (and implying the monsters are not),

and Susie says:

“Everybody bleeds, right?”

From our understanding of monsters in Undertale, monsters don’t bleed, they turn to dust. But, maybe Darkners can bleed. If we believe Sans is a Darkner, it may explain this:

It could be ketchup. It could be a Darkner thing. Lancer does mention blood casually. But if only humans and Darkners bleed, then why would a monster like Susie say “everybody bleeds”?

So what is Deltarune you ask? I think it’s:

1) A story about Sans, Papyrus, and Gaster’s past and future. We get to experience their past in the Dark World, and speak with their future selves in the Light World. But these future versions of Sans and Papyrus may not be as far into the future as the Sans and Papyrus we meet in Undertale. Remember, Sans had an Ice-E’s crossword in Undertale? Ice-E’s-P’E’zza is a restaurant in Hometown. Papyrus may also be younger than he was in Undertale because Sans, an adult who runs a grocery store, thinks a teen like Kris should hang with his little brother, and it would be “weird” if he were there with them.

2) A story about post-Undertale Asriel, Chara, and Gaster. Asriel/Flowey maintains his new form as Ralsei thanks to the power of the Dark Fountain. He now lives in what is/was Sans’ childhood home. Whether he knows this or remembers the events of Undertale is unknown, but it is my belief that he holds a deep connection to the Asriel we all wished to save. Chara resides within Kris in a similar manner as they did at the ending of a UT True Pacifist Ending after surrendering the red SOUL to them in a Genocide ending. Does this mean that Kris’s body or “vessel” is Frisk? This seems to be heavily implied by Kris’ outfit taking on the same color scheme as Frisk’s UT shirt while in the Dark World.

3) A coming of age story for a bunch of teens. Kris, Susie, Ralsei, Noelle, Lancer, and all the friends that may join on their adventures are still people regardless of what grand meta narrative is at play involving the nature of their reality. They still need to go to school, fall in love, and worry about growing up and going to university. Noelle will undoubtedly play a large role with Toby’s tease of her as “Lost Girl”, and considering how attached most of the community has already gotten to these characters, it hurts my heart to think about what may befall them as they try their best to live their lives. Does this mean Deltarune’s world is doomed? I hope not... but those save file screens sure are creepypasta...

“IT WAS AS IF IT WAS NEVER THERE AT ALL.”

4) A story about video games and the control (or lack thereof) we have over them. It’s quite clear that we, the player controlling the red soul, is able to influence this new world based on knowledge from Undertale that should have no barring. For example, we can name “Onionsan” who has forgot their own name. One of the options is “Onion”, but why? Is it because we know their name is Onionsan in Undertale? How do we even know if that is actually what this version of them is really named?

Deltarune is so close to the perfect Undertale ending we wanted, but it’s just a little bit wrong. Would it hurt to force Undyne and Alphys to meet and fall in love? To get Toriel and Asgore back together? To make Bratty and Catty friends? If you were given the option in game to do it, would you do it? What if it made their lives worse…? I believe that the fact we are able to influence inhabitants of Deltarune with our Undertale knowledge may have some unforeseen consequences, and perhaps, be what begins this whole situation in the first place. (Paradoxes are the best time travel stories!)

Toby Fox said that Deltarune was the game he originally wanted to make, but whether it was too ambitious or time consuming, his idea evolved into Undertale. Now that he’s creating the game he always wanted to, I believe that he will connect everything we know about them together and resolve the mysteries, after all, Gaster has been waiting for this chance.

And maybe, with a little luck and determination, we can create a new future with a happier outcome. If I’ve learned anything from Undertale, it’s that you must hold on to your hopes and dreams, because dreams are the goal of “Determination.”

[spacialesbian]

Theory: Deltarune is set in a previous universe to Undertale

Okay I'm going to attempt to go through and explain my previous-universe deltarune/undertale theory, in which I give evidence for why the DR universe occurs earlier on the timeline than the UT one (also sometimes referred to as Chara-pocalypse by me exclusively for fun)

Extremely huge shoutout to @rayl1r for basically all Kris-split elements, this post for effectively jumpstarting this whole idea in my brain (I will also be referencing it throughout this) and @hulknaps for listening to my preliminary bullshit

I'm gonna get everything I can out of that post before I move on so. The first thing I want to discuss is the photograph of 3 people with the words "don't forget" on it found in the first shelf of San's laboratory, as well as the blueprint for the "thrashing machine" next to it. Now this combined with the "dontforget.ogg" file found in the "mus" folder of deltarune can be taken to imply (albeit somewhat tenuously by itself alone) that the picture is of Kris, Susie, and Ralsei. However, the photo paired with the blueprint and this Sans fight dialogue heavily implies that the events of DR take place in an alternate universe at some point in time before Sans and Papyrus somehow travel to the UT universe. We know from one of the shopkeepers in UT that the bone brothers "just showed up one day," possibly referring to a sudden jump between universes. Now, we know that by the time Chara in a genocide run reaches Sans he knows all about them and "what they've done" (paraphrasing). Initially everybody assumed he was speaking of Chara's actions in UT, but instead consider the possibility that what he was referencing to "what they've done" was really something in the DR reality, namely Chara bringing calamity and the apocalypse to the entire world (this seems brought out of nowhere but there's evidence to support it I promise). somehow and at some time during the storyline of DR, I theorize Sans will join the organization that he references in his Genocide run fight with Chara here, giving him the means to escape the Chara-pocalypse (see) and even appropriating the teleport door technology we see in DR. 

Okay, that's essentially the core of this theory: DR takes place in a previous universe to UT, in which Chara brings the calamity to fruition in DR and Sans figures out a way to escape to UT with Papyrus, vowing to himself "don't forget" as he leaves the fun gang behind.

Now, the first branch of this I'm gonna analyze is Gaster's "role" in all of this. we learn from his followers in UT that 1. Gaster created the core of the underground 2. something went wrong and he fell in, being splintered through space and time and becoming omniscient to some degree (shoutout to this video for the screenshots of the Gaster follower dialogue). Now, I’m adopting the theory that Gaster is the one speaking to you at the beginning of DR during the "character creator” that I lay out the evidence for in this post that you can read if you don’t already subscribe to this idea. Now Gaster, through his displacement in time, has seen the Chara-pocalypse coming and knows there is nothing that can be done to prevent it. This would also explain his nihilistic disposition when interacting with the player and discarding their vessel, as well as providing a possible explanation for why Gaster’s followers are referred to as goners. Gaster has seen the apocalypse coming and know there’s nothing that can be done about it. Everybody is DR is fucked as their choices don’t matter. Now, what do you call someone who is screwed no matter what they do? A goner.

Departing from Gaster, it's now time to talk about the "Kris-split" theory I mentioned earlier provided entirely by @rayl1r. Now, multiple theories and speculation have arisen about Kris being some kind of amalgamation between Chara and Frisk. However, these all assume that DR takes place “after” UT, as opposed to before like the theory I’ve been defending for 600+ words states. “Knowing" that UT takes place takes after DR, we can instead come to the conclusion that Frisk and Chara are a physical split of Kris into two distinct entities. As a sort of disclaimer, we don't know exactly how this split would take place but as with all theories some things we just can't answer. Moving on, we can further attribute this split to what we actually see at the very end of DR Chapter 1. Kris' body and soul literally split into two entities, which, coinciding with this theory, foreshadows the embodiment of Kris' separated soul as Frisk and their body personified as Chara, a ""soulless"" being. We see in this tumblr post that after Kris' soul is torn out we can still control it, yet have lost control over the body. This is an effective mirror of the mechanics in UT, as we control Frisk throughout the entire game except in parts of a Genocide run where Chara wholly "takes over" Frisk and the player loses control entirely. The similarities between Kris' body in the final scene of DR and Chara also don't end there. Recall that the only human to ever open their eyes throughout UT was Chara. Kris' eyes are closed the entirety of DR except for when the soul (Frisk/The Player) is removed from their body, the opening of the eyes symbolizing Chara's new domain over the body or “vessel.” Dialogue from the Sans fight again supports that even though Frisk is being controlled by Chara, he recognizes them as they once were; as Kris. In the same situation as before, we as a fanbase assumed this line was a reference to Sans being aware of Pacifist timelines where Frisk was his friend and generally didn’t murder the whole underground. However, I believe this is a reference to the piece of Kris still somewhere inside Chara (as Chara came from Kara, some part of Kris must still remain inside of Chara). 

The last directly in-game content I want to reference for this theory actually revolves around Seam and Jevil. First, take a look at the dialogue Seam has with Kris after you defeat Jevil and return to him.  This heavily foreshadows a calamity based end of the world scenario, quite possibly the Chara-pocalypse I have alluded to. How much stake we can put into a brain-addled old shopkeeper is relative, but as it is Toby Fox I won't discount a single thing.  Beating Jevil using violence (FIGHTing to lower his health bar rather than tiring him out and pacifying) reveals much of the same information in this dialogue, but also introduces new things that I find incredibly interesting. He references both the unnamed Knight as well as a "Queen" who will bring "hell's roar from the depths." Apart from this being incredibly freaky in general I believe he is referencing Chara as the Queen who will bring hell onto the universe, enacting the Chara-pocalypse. Again, this only a bit of foreshadowing but nothing in these games is small enough to really discredit so I felt safe in adding it here.

To put the cherry on top of all this, Toby released his "thought on chapter 1" tweet as I was planning all of this giving me even more evidence, particularly for the previous-universe theory. In this writing he clearly and openly states "there will be only one ending." the way I see it, this is a reference to the fact that the events of DR are already set in stone, as it takes place in the past (It also reinforces the idea that you actions through DR don’t actually matter). This talk of the characters of UT being the same as you left them also supports the theory, as a set in stone recollection of the past in DR could not possibly change the outcome of UT due to just how time works in general. 

Now, Toby of course couldn't just leave it at that. He ends his TwitLonger with the same exact line Sans writes to himself on the picture of the fun gang he cherishes but had to leave behind:

“don’t forget.”

[recherche-raptor]

Deltarune theories & questions

I was late to the Undertale party & spoiled for everything when it came out, so I’m glad I get to experience discovering what’s going on at the same time as everyone else instead of just reading about it later!

Putting it all under the cut, it’s a lot and I don’t want to spoil for those who haven’t been able to go through it yet:

Was Ralsei’s parent one of the other three kings cast out by Spade King? I’d assume their parent was the King of Hearts, because of the heart symbol on their tunic. But if that is the case, why didn’t Ralsei react to seeing the kings in their cage? What is Ralsei truly the Prince of? What is their kingdom, if it’s not one of the four suites? Are they Prince of the entire dark world? And why do they say they’ve been waiting for the legend to come true the entire time?

For that matter, for the purposes of the prophecy, would Lancer count as a Prince of the Dark?

I noticed that Dark World characters had portraits with splashes of color (Ralsei’s green hat & red scarf, Lancer’s blueness, etc), but Kris, Susie, and the prologue/epilogue characters had black-and-white portraits as in Undertale. I wonder if there’s any significance to this?

This made me really curious about Rouxls at first, until I realized his mouth is blue

A lot of world elements felt a bit disjointed from Ralsei’s telling of the prophecy. Only Seam and Spade King seemed to care about the balance of light and dark (I haven’t fought Jevil yet but I will when I can! I’ll definitely be adding to this once I fight him, since I hear Seam has extra dialogue after fighting Jevil)

Why is Ralsei the only anagram/doppelganger counterpart to a Lightner? All of the other Darkeners are unique and not based in appearance and name on an Undertale character.

What does it mean that the teleportation doors look just like the door to Sans’s room?

Was it Gaster who took Kris and Susie to the Dark World, or another force entirely?

Who is the Knight that Spade King was afraid of?

What, exactly, were the consequences of the Fountain suddenly existing on the Dark World? All of the problems seem to be directly attributable to Spade King’s takeover and tyranny.

Why didn’t Kris, Susie, and Ralsei actually seal the Fountain like the legend said they were supposed to? Kris and Susie just used it to get home, Ralsei didn’t do anything with them, so what happened? Will the plot of Chapter 2 be “oh whoops we forgot to seal the Fountain away like we were supposed to, let’s go fix that now?”

Is the narrator from the survey/character creation part of the game the same narrator as the one who “discards” your creation?

What does it mean for Kris that you, the player, overwrites their save file when you first save? Is that the reason why Kris tears out their soul at the end- so you can’t control them anymore? Or did overwriting their save file remove something else that let Chara in, causing Chara to tear out Kris’s soul so it can’t be used as a cursor?

What happened once upon a time to humans and monsters in this new world? Were humans sealed away instead? Did the War even happen at all?

Is the strange bunker to the far south of the town the entrance to this world’s version of the Underground?

There were tombstones for Snowdrake’s mother, the dogs’ parents, and Shyren’s sister. What happened to Reaper Bird and the Memoryheads? Who were they?

Also this can’t be a prequel, because Gerson is dead, and it can’t be a sequel, because Kris, and Asriel being alive, and Undyne not knowing Alphys, so it has to be its own alternate world.

Is this the “next world” Chara wanted to move onto at the end of a No Mercy run? If so, does that mean that in-game, the world of Undertale was destroyed, so Chara could move onto Deltarune? What allowed them to possess Kris? I played Pacifist only and never reset, dangit, what is going on with this timeline?

What the heck did it mean that after leaving the Dark World, Kris and Susie found themselves in an abandoned classroom full of checkerboards, chess pieces, and a spilled deck of cards? What was real about the Dark World? What does this mean for Lancer and the rest, who we as an audience just spent hours getting attached to? Were they weird figments of a dream or hallucination produced by seeing the playing pieces? Only Susie’s comment that “that wasn’t a dream, right?” seems to keep it from actually being nothing more than a weird dream. Still, what’s up with that?

I’ve also seen analyses pointing to Susie as being the true central character of Deltarune, not Kris, since the player is told from the start that your choices don’t matter. But Susie’s seem to. She was the one to get character development, she was the one to have an emotional connection and investment with the struggle in the Dark World through Lancer in a fight that paralleled the fight with Toriel. And Kris, being a weird silent kid, doesn’t respond to her question. Could it be that the entire game was Susie’s dream?

Does Sans know anything about what’s up?

Is this the “next world” after Undertale, or might it be the world before? Is this the world with people about which Sans says “you’ll never see em again” as a Lost Soul? Or if is this indeed the world after Undertale, was there a world before?

Also what the heck did Asgore do to piss off Toriel in this world, he seems like a big ol softie, it was sad to see him living in such a sorry state while Toriel was in the big house they once shared that’s now all-too empty (also, Toriel’s chair was conspicuously clickable in the house, whereas its counterpart- presumably Asgore’s- was not clickable).

Where’s Grillby?

And who’s “C,” Asgore’s mysterious landlord? The only character I could think of with a name starting with “c” was Cattie, and that doesn’t seem right.

If Mettaton is still a ghost hiding in a house, where’s Napstablook? The writing in the journal in the library was in Napstablook’s style, but the snail house voice was Mettaton’s; do they just live together or something?

I’m sure I’ll come up with more questions later, but that’s all I have for now. More questions than answers, and a lot of fun and spooky possibilities.

[jobecreatesagame]

I'll try to do something different

Hi. I'm Jori, also known as jobe. You might know me from the demoscene releases I've made for the PICO-8 and TIC-80 fantasy platforms. That all started from a desire to do something different. I had a PICO-8 license to create music for other coders and their demos, but those demos never really materialized. Which, let me just state outright, I have no hard feelings about. Creating things is hard, creating things and balancing that with other things going on in your life is very hard, so I fully understand that hobby projects don't always get finished. I know mine don't.

But I had this tool, and I wanted to work on demos, and since no one else would make my demos for me, why not make a demo myself? How hard can that be?

Long story short, surprisingly hard in some aspects, surprisingly easy in others, and in the end, I had created something people seemed to like.

A couple of things that people seemed to like.

But doing the same thing over and over again can put you in a bit of a rut, even if you're getting better at the thing you're doing. I keep thinking it would be fun to make another PICO-8 demo, but after Puroresu no Seishin, I don't know where I would go from that. I feel like I've done everything I want to do on that platform.

I looked at another platform. TIC-80 was the logical next step, as it's also a fantasy platform, also Lua based, but with less technical restrictions. Less of a challenge, but that also meant I could do things that weren't feasible within PICO-8's virtual CPU cycle limit.

There's another difference. The cart format. There are two ways to release a PICO-8 cart - an uncompressed text file with the source code, or a .p8.png file that contains a label image. A TIC-80 cart, however, doesn't necessarily contain anything else than compressed source code. A seemingly minor detail but one that has huge implications for sizecoding. It's not impossible to do a tiny production on the PICO-8, as this 256 byte intro by Marquee Design illustrates, but as you can see from this TIC-80 256 byte intro also by Marquee Design, there's a world of difference between 256 bytes of compressed an uncompressed code.

Last September, I made my first 256 byte intro. I had no idea I would enjoy sizecoding as much as I do. It's a different kind of challenge from making a demo, as you hit the wall almost immediately and have to start thinking of the size limit from the first character of code you write. It's also much less of an undertaking than a full demo project - a way to quickly express one audiovisual idea and be done with it. I'll be doing more sizecoding later for sure. Lovebyte, an online demoscene event, is taking place a month from now and I'll definitely try to get something done for the event.

There's one other thing I hadn't done before 2021. I hadn't made a game.

That's not entirely true, of course. After all, I did work in game development for six years. The problem with the auteur theory is that attributing the whole creative process to a Ken Levine or a Hidetaka Miyazaki does a massive disservice to everyone else involved in creating a Bioshock or a Dark Souls.

Having both contributed to demos as team efforts and created them all by myself, however, to me the solo efforts have felt more like "my" demos. And of course, there are games like Undertale and Axiom Verge where the entirety or overwhelming majority of the game is created by a single developer, resulting in a highly personal expression of that developer's vision.

I finished "my" first game about a month ago. Deckpest, a combination of a deckbuilder and a Tempest-style arcade shooter, made for the TIC-80. A course work for school, Deckpest is almost entirely a solo creation - another person on the course made the music, while I made the graphics and designed and coded the game. The purpose of the course was to learn project management, and it was very successful at that. I don't know if I could have finished the project if I didn't adopt Kanban.

The scope of Deckpest was limited by the strict course deadline, but it was also limited by the platform. While there are no CPU cycle or token amount restrictions, TIC-80 still restricts you to 64 kilobytes of written code. Currently, Deckpest is at 63629 bytes. I managed this without any size optimization, but if I wanted to expand the game any more, I would have to find ways to cram more code into the cart, probably sacrificing readability and maintainability.

But I enjoy the core gameplay loop of Deckpest so much that I feel like I could do something more with it. Make it bigger.

So I'm taking it to LÖVE.

LÖVE is a free and open source game development framework. It's the perfect choice for building upon Deckpest. It's designed for 2D games, so it's very suitable for a 2.5D game like Deckpest. It uses Lua, so I've actually been able to port some of the code from Deckpest almost directly. It's multi-platform, and while I'm not making any promises (I don't have a Mac to test things on so getting the shaders to work on Mac OS X might be a bit difficult), I'll at least try to bring it to other platforms than just Windows.

It's going to be a big project, one that will have to take lower priority to all kinds of adult responsibilities. The full scope of the thing is a bit nebulous this point. My uneducated estimate is that I'll have version 1.0 out sometime near the end of 2023, and until then, it's going to be my main creative outlet. So, don't expect any demos from me any time soon. I won't be abandoning demoscene activities completely, as sizecoding and live coding are great, less time consuming ways for me to express myself, but I won't be committing myself to creating a full demo for now.

Why, then, am I writing this instead of working on the game? Because for me, creating is communicating, and I don't see why creating a game would be any different from creating a demo. However, I am still far from having any kind of playable preview I could comfortably hand to more than very few people. I feel that if I blog about my process, it will feel more like I'm communicating. It will feel less lonely.

So, if you're still reading this, thank you for letting me communicate to you. See you in the next post!

[under-lore]

apologies if this is already common knowledge, but do the files (0, 9, etc) behave any differently when playing hard mode?

No, not really.

File 0 and file 9 work as normal, being edited over via manual SAVING or autosaves in certain locations.

There is a line in the contents of the files that changes when hard mode is on, but it isn't relevant, and the game seems to auto-update it every time a room is entered or the game is restarted depending on wether the player is named "Frisk".

[under-lore]

Chara did not have the SAVE power when they were alive

In Undertale, all humans have high amounts of determination compared to monsters.

Considering that Frisk has it, and that it is hinted on multiple occasions that some if not all of the fallen humans also once had that power, one would assume that the answer to the question of wether Chara once had the power to most likely be yes.

But... Looking at it with more attention, its far from being so simple.

For instance, Flowey has been heavily projecting his views and actions on Chara’s past ones. Had Chara been SAVING and LOADING in life, it would seem really very unlikely that Flowey would have never reflected on things Chara did in the past and concluded that they must have been like him too on that regard. He did this regarding many things which Chara did not even really do, would he really have missed something he knows the signs of so well and would have been so glad to pin on Chara if it had it actually been true ?

Well, there are actually a number of things that suggest that Chara did not actually SAVE/LOAD at all during life.

(Note : A lot of the following evidence for this comes from file attribution theory. I would suggest reading that post first in order to understand what’s said in this one better)

In Undertale, the data of SAVE files stays the same even when one loses the SAVE power. Unlike what Flowey claims, none of the data is ever erased here.

Once the fight is over, the previous SAVE is still intact and we can still go back to it. Losing the SAVE power to someone else does not erase one’s previous SAVED data.

The reason this is important is because of Chara’s file. File 0.

This SAVE file, at the start of Undertale, is still completely EMPTY.

Had Chara ever SAVED, that data should thus still be stored in that file at the start of the game. But there just isn’t anything in here.

File 0 is straight up unused. No one has ever made use of this file until the player and Frisk did when playing the game. This appears to pretty strongly affirming that Chara has never SAVED any data at all when they were still alive.

Now, it is true that one could still argue that Chara might have had the power but simply decided not to use it for one reason or another.

But even then, there is another big issue to consider with Chara having had that power which has to do with Asriel and the plan.

When Asriel absorbed Chara’s soul and later ended up dying in the garden after the failure of the plan, he found himself in a situation where, just like Flowey during his first suicide, Asriel at that moment should by all accounts have been able to RESET and go back.

But he did not. Instead, the prince died and turned to dust, causing Asgore to declare war.

That seems to mean that Asriel did not actually fill all the requirements to be a SAVE holder despite having Chara’s soul. Even if all signs would hint that he should have been able to.

This apparent paradox is also reflected through file attribution theory. There are two possible scenarios to consider if assuming that Asriel did have the power at that point and both of them lead to contradictions :

Scenario 1 : “Asriel and Flowey are considered as the same person file-wise.“

If this had been the case, the files being in chronological order tells us that Asriel/Flowey’s file should have been file 1 and not file 8. The fallen humans should have been files 2-7 and Lemon bread’s file should have been file 8 rather than 7.

Scenario 2 : “Asriel and Flowey are not considered as the same person file-wise.”

If this had been the case, there should have been an extra file in between Chara’s file and the 6 fallen human’s files (which would have been Asriel’s file) in addition to the other existing files we know of. That would have made Flowey’s file the 9th rather than 8th, lemon bread’s the 8th and Frisk’s would have been the 10th (a file that just outright doesn’t even exist at all !)

With neither scenarios being possible, file attribution theory gives us the same answer as before : Asriel did not actually fit the requirements to RESET despite having Chara’s soul.

As he obviously did fit regarding everything else that’s needed to have the power (such as not wanting to die or being the most determined entity around), the only possible solution to this paradox (unless one wants to argue it to be a plot hole) is that Asriel and Chara together did not have enough determination to reach the threshold needed to RESET in the first place.

And if both of them together wasn’t enough determination, then Chara alone couldn’t have been enough either. Especially given that if anything, Chara would have had more reason to be determined during the plan than any other moment as failure would lead to not only their death and Asriel’s, but to the continued imprisonment of monsterkind and to failure to take revenge on the humans Chara hated by going down to them.

This would result in the conclusion that Chara in life simply couldn’t have been capable of SAVING by themself even if they tried. And that it was only through Frisk’s determination many years later that their SAVE file eventually found itself a usage.

[dimitri-barron]

This was first posted some months ago, but I only saw it on this last reblog so I figure it's fair game. I like this theory, but something's missing.

The Player is an individual character in Undertale.

under-lore actually has a prior write-up on this, so I won't go deep into detail here. If you need some refreshers on Player Theory, go read the linked article. What bothers me in this draft of File Attribution theory is that it places the action of SAVING purely on Frisk's shoulders, and in doing so attributes control of File 0 to Frisk. I disagree with this, for a handful of reasons.

Who really has control over what SAVE file?

Across nearly all of Undertale, the Player is responsible for guiding Frisk's actions. Frisk has their own opinions on many of the actions we may choose to take, acting far more or less excited about some things than others. Frisk still does them, because they don't have much of a choice. We're the main drivers in control. The body of Frisk, in-world, and the red soul we control through menus and battles, belongs to both Frisk and the Player at the same time. Again, this is expanded on in the linked post, but the main thing I want to stress here is that the Player and Frisk are essentially referred to interchangeably in several scenarios, as are the Player and Chara. Dialogue that refers to the actions or capabilities of one or the other tends to be ambiguous and require some parsing. But one thing is clear:

(Above screenshot borrowed from under-lore)

The Player is ultimately the one pulling the biggest strings. When you as the Player choose to SAVE your progress or LOAD from the main menu, File 0 is the one being used. File 0 is under our control.

This also explains the question asked at the beginning of the OP. The Player SAVES near Asgore, and when they do Frisk SAVES as well. After the game is reset and we pass into the room below the candy bowl, Frisk SAVES the game to File 9 and LOADS this after dying. When the Player exits and LOADS from the menu, we reload File 0.

When we use a SAVE point, we see the information on File 0, because that is the file we as the Player have access to.

But who does it belong to?

Something more fundamental I disagree with is that File 0 must originally belong to Chara, because Chara is the first determined entity in the timeline. Why? That's easy.

We were here first.

The Player has to begin the game before any of the story can happen. We show up, long before any other events, and see the war take place. We give Chara a name, and that name is the name they always had. Our influence begins long before anyone else's.

My proposed revision to the list goes like this:

File 0: Belongs to and is controlled by the Player.

File 1: Belongs to Chara. Control of this file effectively dies when Chara does.

File 2-7: Belongs to the six fallen children. Flowey briefly takes control during the Neutral Route boss.

File 8: Flowey's own SAVE.

File 9: Belongs to and is still controlled by Frisk.

This has the side effect of closing up the Lemon Bread hole.

More to think about...

One question remains in my mind:

If a player restarts partway through a run and, without saving, reaches the room below the candy bowl before exiting to the menu and reloading, where do they go if they die before hitting another automatic File 9 checkpoint?

My assumption is that they'd either go back to the room below the candy bowl, where File 9 was last updated, or back to where the game was last loaded from, File 0. I have no idea which one, because I've never seen it done.

The one thing this version of the theory doesn't address is why the Player has so much control over the the game. Why we in particular are able to reset the timeline all the way to the beginning, or finally, at the very end, perform a True Reset that completely erases most otherwise persistent events. I have my pet theories, as tenuous as they are, but without this very specific information about how File 0 and File 9 interact across two different playthroughs I can only speculate.

File attribution theory

In Undertale, there are 10 numbered SAVE files, going from “file 0″ up to “file 9″.

The UNDERTALE folder on the player’s computer may contain file 0, file 9 and file 8 depending on certain conditions.

These files mutually take each other into consideration. The fact that “file 6″ exists means that there was a “file 5″ already, otherwise file 6 would have just been called file 5. File 5 implies the existence of file 4 and so on.

This means that either all of those files are canon, or none of them are.

The game makes it pretty clear that we are in the first scenario given that the Flowey X fight directly refers to those files being an in-world thing.

Another case in which we can clearly see the impact of the different files within the game has to do with Frisk.

Lets say that a neutral route is played, then, the player SAVES just before fighting Asgore. Afterwards, instead of fighting the king, the player decides to RESET. The player then decides to go through the ruins without SAVING even once, but is eventually killed by a monster.

Where does Frisk come back to after dying in this situation ?

One would expect Frisk to either go back to the flower bed at the very beginning or to LOAD back to near Asgore where the player last SAVED.

But neither of those is what happens. Frisk actually comes back to this location :

And that’s not all. Lets say that now, the player closes the game and opens it up again. Where does Frisk LOAD to then ?

This time, they do LOAD back to near Asgore.

Frisk has just LOADED to two completely different points in space and time without having SAVED in between the two. This should be impossible with Frisk having control over only a singular SAVE file.

What happened here was that two different SAVE files were actually used :

“file 0″ and “file 9″.

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