#unnamed lord dayne

[allyriadayne]

could you talk more about the daynes post robert's rebellion?

SURE

first of, this is mostly my hcs, speculations and a mix of things i must have read back when there was the height of asoiaf meta in 2013 because there is almost nothing about the daynes post robert's rebellion. so bear with me.

just to set the scene, the members of house dayne left after the mess of the rebellion were the unnamed older brother of ashara and arthur, the lord and father of edric; allyria the youngest sister that i headcanon to be much younger than her older siblings seeing as she is betrothed to beric dondarrion who is was in his twenties per agot so i don't think the marriage would've occurred if allyria was in her middle thirties or forties if she was closer to ashara and arthur; edric, twelve years old, beric's loyal squire; and gerold aka darkstar head of high hermitage, also in his twenties? around arianne's age.

(c) Eddie Mendoza for the cover of A Song of Ice and Fire 2025 Calendar

under the cut because i'm crazy

i don't know if the books are ever going to make clear what happened at the toj-starfall zone but we can be sure only that ned went from one to the other with lyanna's bones and supposedly baby jon to return dawn to the daynes. ashara had a baby of father unknown and shortly after ned was there she took her own life, body never found. i go back and forward in thinking if ashara's brother lord dayne was there with her when ned went or if he was one of the dornish commanders defending the targs. in any case, his presence was completely zero during this time so i think he was too injured for a time or too sickly in general to do something to reestablish the dayne name in dorne after arthur being an important part in elia's disgrace and indirectly, her murder.

because yeah after arthur and ashara's death and going by the books there is zero mention of them, even in the chapters set in dorne or others about dornish characters make no mention of them. and it's strange considering that when you read awoiaf and f&b, the daynes are The knights of dorne. queen nymeria marries a dayne, sends a starfall king to the wall, meria martell commands a dayne to burn oldtown, arguably one of the most powerful cities of the time, out of all the sons of daeron ii and myriah martell, maekar marries a dayne, the only dornish lady. it could be nothing OR something but i think it does mean something. we see there's no daynes in oberyn's party in kl or speculation in general about the new sword of the morning beyond remembering dear old arthur. they've fallen completely into obscurity. the house was reduced to a young girl and its child lord.

edric's dad dies before agot (he doesn't seem to afflicted by his death when he meets arya if he were less than a year dead, inheriting the lordship at such a young age would've been dramatic to him), i would say just after becoming a page to beric dondarrion at 7 yo and i headcanon the marriage between beric and allyria was brokered at this time too. this was part of a fic i was writing like 500 years ago but i think lord dayne must have known he would not live too long, not to see edric grow so he must have looked for someone to prepare and take care of allyria and edric after he died. betrothing allyria to a marcher lord is......strange. if a dornish person would have to be married to someone it would go like this 1) not from the reach 2) not from the marches in that order, there is too much bad blood. the daynes have a longstanding tradition of killing oakhearts so marrying allyria to the heir of blackhaven and giving him his only heir, lord dayne entrusted a complete stranger with the future of his house.

beric would've been in charge of teaching young edric just about everything. he would be living in the stormlands for almost half his live, learning from a his maester and how to govern a stormlands' castle. meanwhile, allyria in a few years probably around agot time would be ready to marry beric when she reached her majority. she would've been the defacto ruler of starfall in edric's name when lord dayne dies, i think the idea was to swap when edric gained his spurs: he would return to starfall after a successful run as a tourney knight, probably gaining some recognition from whatever beric was tasked with at the capital (rip king) and then accompany allyria to be married to his knight master. andddd fin.

the thing is. allyria being so young during the rebellion, lord dayne absence for whatever reason and then dying, let the younger members with no connections in the wider dorne political context. it is said young children go to the water gardens and it's fun yeah but it's def a starting point for politics for many lords. it's close to the martells and it's an opportunity to make friends with future rulers, /everyone/ is going. the daynes didn't have this. allyria was probably very young when the rebellion happened (i think no older than 5) and for obvious reasons she was not sent to the water gardens; as for ned, i think lord dayne could not secure an invitation, this or he died too early to even try. if allyria had gone, she would've been for sure one of arianne's companions, she has both the breeding and the standing, but NOT and it's crucial, the reputation. see what arianne has to say in affc about gerold's standing:

"He is highborn enough to make a worthy consort, she thought. Father would question my good sense, but our children would be as beautiful as dragonlords."

it's must be passé to associate with the daynes at this point. think of the conningtons losing all standing when joncon lost the battle and was exiled.

in any case, allyria, more than edric, grew in obscurity. as of the books she's betrothed to a marcher lord nobody knows if he's alive or dead, has a missing nephew and it's in charge of one of the most ancient first men houses of westeros. sad! at least ned is having more fun. which leads me to darkstar. i see his thirst to prove himself, his notoriety as a cruel knight as another way to separate himself from what the main branch has fallen into. he is in his twenties so he was probably affected by the same dark cloud as the others.

"If I led a quarter of a million men to death, would they call me Gerold the Great? I shall remain Darkstar, I think. At least it is mine own."

he wants to have what arthur had, but not be the sword of the morning, he wants something that it's his own, as he says. he may want the sword and the fame like arthur, but not to be associated with another's bad luck so to speak. it's very telling that he's called one of "the most dangerous man in dorne" and what is the sword of the morning if not this? he's a dark mirror of the daynes pre rebellion, just like allyria would've been a renown beauty just like ashara is she wasn't cloistered. something something gerold and allyria as mirrors of what could've happened to ashara and arthur if they hadn't the protection of the monarchy.

i once read gerold is meant to have young ned's plot after germ scrapped the five year time skip and i think this is half true. i do think there is something to be done about dawn the sword and i think gerold is going to steal it and do something with it, something ned can't do because he's /still/ in the riverlands. i don't know what but i think it ties nicely with the theme of deconstructing the noble knight archetype. arthur is only great because he knew how to kill.

writing this i had a breakdown about the parallels between arthur and gerold

to finish this rambling i want to say my hopes for house dayne in what is left of asoiaf is 1) ned alive 2) gerold steals dawn 3) and like. something. honestly i will take anything at this point about allyria. DOES SHE EVEN KNOW? my poor girl and 4) if germ wants to clear the toj situation then it's fine.

thanks for asking and to anyone reaching this point lol. this is mostly general but if you want to talk about anything specific just message me! k thx muah!

[melrosing]

MBO Robert's Rebellion: Episode 3

decided it would be funnier to call this MBO Robert's Rebellion (melrosing box office..... get it) but I can't be bothered to change the tag so that's staying the same

please check tags for content warnings!

anyway, this episode!! a completely made up tourney, because there are one or two canon tourneys I'm not gonna fit later on + at this stage it works in terms of assembling a few key characters for introductions and check-ins.

small time skip between this episode at the last btw - let's say it takes 3-4 months to plan a tourney Prev: Episode 1, Episode 2

Next: Episode 4

title for this one: Rhaegar: The Anime

A crowd of men and teenage boys cluster around the lists in the courtyard of the Red Keep, looking to sign up for the Kings' tourney. Standing in the background with his friend Jon Connington (12) stands Rhaegar Targaryen (14). Joncon encourages Rhaegar to enter the lists; Rhaegar wonders if his opponents would only lose to him intentionally, but Joncon insists they wouldn't need to. Rhaegar enters the fray to sign his name

opening creds I guess

Jon Arryn arrives at the Red Keep with his wards, Ned (10) and Robert (11), in tow; Jon's here for a bit of politicking, and to show the boys their first tourney. The three seem in good humour, and Robert, who has a new betrothal, wants to know if his wife to be is pretty. Ned asks how he's supposed to know, she's his sister

They're greeted by Tywin Lannister in the courtyard; as they approach Robert asks if that's the king. Jon Arryn says, may as well be lol

Arriving shortly afterwards, House Dayne. Big zoom on Arthur. Ashara is here too, and waves to Ned when she sees him looking

Later arrives Joanna with the twins. She wonders if it was wise to travel in her state, but King Aerys had specifically asked for her presence. Tywin observes the progression of her pregnancy, and looks the happiest he ever will about Tyrion. Aerys comes to greet Joanna, and, once again, manages to make it weird. This seems to grate on Tywin and Rhaella more than it did back in episode 1

With Aerys and Rhaella in their private chambers. Rhaella wonders if Aerys thinks she doesn't notice how he acts around Joanna. Aerys strikes her for the first time: Rhaella is shaken but not surprised - Aerys is surprised but not remorseful

The tourney grounds: everything's well underway. Rhaegar is competing, and Tywin (sitting beside Aerys in the stands) compliments his skill. Aerys says Rhaegar shouldn't even be competing, given this is a tourney to select a new member of the Kingsguard. Tywin wonders aloud if Aerys would allow Rhaegar to take on Jaime as a squire in a few years, and Aerys ignores this notion

Meanwhile, Jaime (7) is hanging around the stands with other kids, trying his hand against a few young squires. He's pretty good. Cersei sits nearby looking bored, tossing a wooden tourney sword between her hands. Rhaegar passes by, and she looks up distractedly

Robert and Ned approach Jaime to introduce themselves to the future Lord of the Rock. Robert laughs when he sees Cersei too, and wonders aloud which is which. Cersei (who has heard this joke enough by now) pulls a face at him and drags her bro away

More tourney scenes. Lots of crashing etc but none of that shit from HOTD as though every other guy is getting his head bashed in with the edge of a shield can we be serious

Rhaella & Joanna. Joanna wonders how Rhaella came by the bruise on her cheek. Rhaella is reluctant to comment, so Joanna changes the subject - she will be hosting their dear old friend the Unnamed Princess of Dorne at the Rock in a few months (GRRM I swear to god if she doesn't have a name by the next book). Rhaella tries to engage with this news but can't

Rhaegar and Arthur final two!!! I know u didn't see this coming. Arthur introduces himself to Rhaegar, and both seem to have the sense they've already met. Both mount their horses and ride at each other; Joncon losing his mind in the stands, Jaime discovering a new fanboy obsession. Arthur wins to great applause, but takes Rhaegar by the arm and raises his hand to celebrate the prince. The crowd roars, only Aerys looks pissed

Arthur made KG on the field. We get a sense of the gravity and acclaim that comes with this position. Arthur stands, but looks thoughtful rather than anything

Post-tourney bash!! Everyone enjoying a feast in the Great Hall. Aerys still looks kind of sour. Per obligation, he toasts Arthur. Arthur toasts Rhaegar. Everybody clapped :)

Aerys now in a big sulk, decides to take it out by aiming a few jokes at Tywin. Tywin does not prove responsive, so Aerys turns to Joanna and says (well I'm gonna have to type this out thanks AWOIAF) it seems feeding her twins has ruined her breasts. Joanna, lost for words, excuses herself and her children. Tywin shortly follows. Tension at the table

Tywin & Joanna in the Hand's solar. Tywin, in his anger, asks Joanna why it seems Aerys has such a preoccupation with her? It's an accusation, which Joanna furiously refutes, daring him to say more. Tywin doesn't, and nods his head in apology, leaves. Joanna alone, nursing her bump. She winces slightly

Aerys & Tywin alone in the throne room, where Aerys has been stroking his hand along the razor edge of the seat. He has a small cut, and hides it when he sees Tywin approach. Tywin says he will be departing in the morning to see his child born at the Rock, but perhaps Aerys would prefer he did not come back? Aerys like babe what u mean. Tywin like why were you so rude at dinner >:( Aerys says he was only joking w him. Tywin's like no about my wife!! Aerys makes some excuse, says he meant nothing by it. Tywin walks out without another word

In the coach home with the Lannisters. It's been kind of quiet. As they arrive at the Rock, Joanna is in sudden pain - but it's too early. Abruptly, she and Tywin realise what's happening; the children are rushed one way, and Joanna inside the mouth of the Rock

[atopvisenyashill]

the povs of the wars of conquest

similar to my “povs of robert’s rebellion” gonna do an aegon’s conquest one since they announced the show let me REST tho jfc but this one is a bit more meta-y at the end

to keep up with the "no PoVs from the kings" theme, these are the ones we should not have:

Aegon the Conquerer (duh)

Argilac Durrandan

Harren the Black

Torrhen Stark

Mern Gardener

Loren Lannister

Meria Nymeros Martell

However, what’s interesting about the conquest is that power is changing hands a lot, whole lines are being wiped out while others are shooting up in importance, so I have two sections of PoVs we could have.

First are PoVs I think we would need:

Visenya Targaryen

Rhaenys Targaryen

Orys Baratheon

Sharra Arryn

Argella Durrandan

Brandon Snow

Patrice Hightower

Ser Joffrey Dayne

Jon Mooton

Marla Sunderland

Quentyn Qoheris

Daemon Velaryon

Second are PoVs I’m Kind of Conflicted Over

Nymor Nymeros Martell

Deria Nymeros Martell

Edmyn Tully

Harlan Tyrell

Theo Tyrell

Vickon Greyjoy

some explanation - The thing is, we don’t typically get The Heir’s PoV or The Lord’s PoV if that heir/lord is likely to inherit without any sort of succession issue - we don’t get Robb in AGOT bc he’s the clear cut successor, but we DO get his father bc Ned came into his seat after A Series Of Unfortunate Events (also the plot doesn’t work without Ned). We don’t get a peek into Tywin’s mind but we do look at each Lannister child. etc etc. But the second category of characters fit into a weird third category in my opinion.

Let’s start with Dorne. Since Nymor is clear cut as Meria’s oldest child and heir, takes his seat without any problems, and passes it to his oldest without any issues, he doesn’t really fit that pattern. But on the other hand. I think when you look at the Dornish rulers in the first century post conquest, Nymor stands out because he has no desire to keep the fight going while everyone around him does. Remember, Deria helps fund the Vulture King, Qoren fights against Daemon in the Stepstones, and Morion is a dumb ass but he is not the only Martell to make violent overtures right back at the Iron Throne; I’d argue Nymor is one of the only Martells not to fund some sort of proxy war! I think of all the Martells, he’d be the most fascinating to follow and watch Meria and Deria from. So I’m a bit stuck here. And there’s a similar argument against Deria - while she is involved in the Vulture King’s war, Deria rules in relative peace. There's nothing shocking about a woman inheriting her father's seat in Dorne, the way there would be elsewhere in Westeros that might justify giving her a spotlight.

Then we have the Tullys and Tyrells. The Tullys are an incredibly old and noble family but they have never been kings. And the Tyrells are famously a group of upjumped castellans, and the only family in the Reach that didn’t raise arms against House Targaryen during the Conquest. They are given rule over their respective areas of the Riverlands and the Reach because they are a good political pick, and not because of any kingly blood. We also need a Riverlander and Reacher PoV because there’s a lot of action going on in these areas. And while the Greyjoys certainly were known to have been Kings frequently, Vickon Greyjoy was not and did not expect to be any time soon.

I think the solution here is really obvious though - invent a few Davos and Catelyn characters. Give Nymor a wife who is involved in the politics of the War. Edmyn Tully has three unnamed daughters, one of whom marries Quentyn Qoherys - make her a PoV. But at the same time, these would essentially just be Canon OCs, and like, idk, they don’t have the best track record with that. If this was a “George is gonna write an aegon’s conquest story” that’s one thing but someone else doing it is a bit eh. If it were George writing this, I think I’d want something like:

Visenya T. and ONLY her - i want Rhaenys and Aegon to remain a mystery

Orys Baratheon but i’m gonna bitch the whole time

Quentyn Qoherys

Jon Mooton

Argella fucking Durrandan

Brandon Snow

Patrice Hightower - this is Ceryse’s aunt, the one reputed to be a witch who died an unmarried maid. she would have been a youngish girl during the Conquest; she and Manfred, Ceryse’s father, don’t have canon ages, and since Ceryse is born in 2 AC, you can probably get away with anything from like 10-25 for either of them. Also, I think Patrice would just be really fun to follow, think of the witch on witch crime between her and Visenya!!

Marla Sunderland

Ser Joffrey Dayne

Nymor’s wife, and I think making her an Orphan of the Greenblood (considering Rhaenys' first act of violence in Dorne is to burn Plankytown) would be the best narrative choice.

Edmyn Tully’s first born daughter - potentially she is his heir presumptive bc he’s not mentioned as having any sons or grandsons or even brothers. Also, it’s not specified which daughter married Qoherys, and we don’t have a named Tully Lord until Prentys Tully & Lucinda Broome during Maegor’s reign, so there’s some wiggle room to do something fun here.

Once again, we don't have any "Road trip from hell" stories here a la Arya, Brienne, and Egg and also not a lot of lowborn PoVs so an idea I had that I thought would be something George would like is having a female warrior from Cracklaw Point - Visenya promises them they would be sworn directly to the Targaryens and not anyone else, and given how often Visenya is at Dragonstone (and Cracklaw Point is very close by, especially if she's riding Vhagar), I think it fits within Visenya's story if she had a some sort of female warrior similar to Jonquil Darke or Brienne of Tarth that followed her through the second half of the conquest to fit the "wandering noble tours the realm and sees life is kind of ass" stories George loves to do.

I think it would be a great idea to have an Iron Islander PoV as well especially given that Aegon requires the Iron Islanders to allow Septons and Maesters into their territory in an attempt to convert them (and probably to educate them as well, i'm sure the literacy rates in the Iron Islands are the worst in the realm, lol lmao) and I think that whole story would be much more affecting if we got an Iron Islander PoV. I think some Salt Wife's PoV here would be particularly fun (or horrific) to follow.

[florisbaratheons]

what do you think of house dayne? i think part of their appeal is that they're so mysterious. we have arthur, ashara, allyria, their nephew edric and of course gerold. so few scenes we have with them and so many questions. btw, do you think ashara is the mother of jon or lyanna?

Oh my god? This is such a great question. I'm going to do my best to answer it, but I will be honest, I have not read the main books, only Fire and Blood.

So House Dayne always felt like almost an offshoot of House Martell to me, but more mystical and magical. I mean, their title is Lord/Lady of Starfall. Arthur's moniker was "Sword of the Morning", and their house sword was called "Dawn". You cannot get anymore mystical and magical then that.

Arthur is a funny character to me. From what I know about him, he was greatly loyal to Rhaegar, but apparently he was also very close to Elia and her children. I've seen many beautiful arts of Elia and Arthur, which made me think that there was something between them, but from what I could find, there wasn't? And he died at the Tower of Joy protecting Lyanna? (And possibly aided Rhaegar in stealing her away.) He was also greatly admired by Jaime Lannister and I have seen some fantastic arts and fics of where one of Jaime and Brienne's sons is named Arthur. He's like Robb in that sense, he's this person everyone aspires to be like, to admire and respect and look up too.

Ashara is a bit confusing to me. She had this relationship with Ned Stark, it seemed like she was the one that Ned wanted and she wanted him in return, but then Brandon died, and Ned married Brandon's betrothed, and so any hope of that going further went out the window. Was it Ned leaving her behind that made her jump? Was it the news of Ned murdering her brother? Is Ashara even dead at all? So many questions.

There isn't much of Allyria to go on except that she was to marry Beric Dondarrian. Is she still alive?

Are the Daynes related to the Targs and the Martells? Because their looks seem to be a mix of both of those families. Edric Dayne having blond hair and blue eyes that look almost purple. Edric is also the son of the unnamed Lord of Starfall. He seems to have a very pure and loyal heart, and his helping Beric during his times being revived is fascinating and truly a shame we never got to see brought to screen.

Gerold's nickname is Darkstar???? Goddammit, HBO, what were you thinking not adapting these characters? I sincerely hope one day we will see these forgotten characters be brought back to life in another show or film.

I'm sorry I couldn't give you more, anon. Thank you again for the question!

[jackoshadows]

I have already talked about the relevance and foreshadowing of the tale of Bael the Bard for Jon Snow and Arya Stark.

This story of a stolen Stark maiden repeats three times

The OG Bael the Bard who supposedly kidnaps the Stark maiden and leaves behind the blue Winter Rose

Rhaegar and his eloping/kidnapping of Lyanna Stark whose love for blue Winter roses is narratively important

Jon Snow sending Mance Rayder (Who goes as Abel the bard - a Bael anagram) to steal away Arya Stark - who has been narratively compared to Lyanna Stark by various characters numerous times - from Winterfell

So we have the connections and parallels of Jon Snow and Arya Stark with Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. Not just with the Bael the Bard mythology, but also Jon Snow choosing love for Arya over duty to the Night’s Watch and breaking his oaths when he decides to march against the current Lord of Winterfell. A scenario which evokes similarities to Rhaegar’s elopement with or kidnapping of Lyanna, leading to civil war and destruction.

But there’s also another parallel I just noticed to characters involved in Robert’s Rebellion.

He is a man of the Night’s Watch, she thought, as he sang about some stupid lady throwing herself off some stupid tower because her stupid prince was dead. The lady should go kill the ones who killed her prince.  - Cat of the Canals, AFfC

In AFfC Dareon sings a song about a lady throwing herself off a tower and killing herself because her prince is dead.  There are many grief stricken ladies in the world of ASoIaF who throw themselves off towers. One is the unnamed Stark Maiden from the Bael the Bard mythology who throws herself off a tower because her lover is killed by her son.  

"So the son slew the father instead," said Jon.

"Aye," she said, "but the gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing. When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael's head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. Her son did not long outlive her. One o' his lords peeled the skin off him and wore him for a cloak."

"Your Bael was a liar," he told her, certain now.- Jon, ACoK

But this is a mythology, song and a story that even Northerners don’t know - interestingly Old Nan seems to have no idea about Bael the Bard. Jon and Theon have never heard it before. Which means there is no way that Dareon - who is from the Reach - knows of this song or story.

A more popular tale, whispered and talked about, is that of Ashara Dayne. Barristan Selmy thinks that Ashara died because of a stillborn child and many others think she killed herself because Ned dishonored her and left her for Catelyn and that Jon Snow is Ashara’s bastard son. Now, we know from Ned’s own POV that he did nothing of that sort. And why should Ashara kill herself over a possible dead child when Ned tells her of Arthur’s death and gives her his sword?

 And interestingly, Arya hears of it from Ned Dayne.

“Why did she jump in the sea, though?”

“Her heart was broken.”

Sansa would have sighed and shed a tear for true love, but Arya just thought it was stupid. She couldn’t say that to Ned, though, not about his own aunt. “Did someone break it?”

He hesitated. “Perhaps it’s not my place . . .”

“Tell me.”

He looked at her uncomfortably. “My aunt Allyria says Lady Ashara and your father fell in love at Harrenhal - Arya, ASoS

Notice how Arya calls it stupid here - connecting this story to the song that she hears Dareon sing. More importantly Harwin tells her this:

"She killed herself, though," said Arya uncertainly. "Ned says she jumped from a tower into the sea."

"So she did," Harwin admitted, as he led her back, "but that was for grief, I'd wager. She'd lost a brother, the Sword of the Morning." - Arya, ASoS

When Ashara gets news of her brother’s death, the princess in the tower throws herself to her death into the sea (Could there have been more to Arthur and Ashara’s relationship considering Arthur was a KG and Ashara was Elia’s Lady in waiting in KL?) When Arya gets news of her brother’s death? Her reaction will most probably be different, with her setting off to Westeros.

I just find all these references, mentions, parallels, anti-parallels to Lyanna/Rhaegar/Arthur/Ashara with the current generation and more specifically with Jon and Arya interesting in the similar or different decisions they make. These tragic characters of Robert’s Rebellion are memorialized in songs and stories (With both characters and the readers not knowing what really happened) and yet we see similar events playing out with possibly different reactions from literary mirror characters that can lead to different and perhaps more happier outcomes this time around.

[cassiopeia-black-brenda]

How much Targaryen blood is there really

So… I’ve been seeing some post come around about the Hightower Targaryens being less Targaryen than Rheanyra’s children. And this is not some post about how wrong someone is, or who is more or less. It just got my curious about how much % Targ is there still in the blood line to begin with. And I am sure there are far more precise ways to do this but…

Quick conclusion explanation below.

Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey have the same percentage of Targaryen blood as Aegon II, Halaena, Aemond and Daeron. Which is 28.57%.

Daenerys has 26.08% Targaryen blood left. Jon has 25%. Shireen and Roberts bastards have 23.08%.

How much Targaryen blood is needed to bond with dragons? Cause it's not much apparently. Would shireen be able to bond with a dragon if given the chance?

Explanation:

If you take that Aenar is 100% Targ

Than his children Gaemon and Daenys are aswell, (disregarding that their mother might not have been Targ blood)

Which makes Aegon and Elaena also 100% T (they also have another unnamed sibling who we know marries ‘some’ lord)

Their children Maegon and Aenys are also still 100% T. Aenys however marries an unnamed/unknow lady, so after that, technically, it is no longer 100% T.

 T x ? = T?

So now it is 50% Targ for Aelys, Baelon and Daemion. Daemion (T?) also marries some unnamed/unknown lady.(?)

T? x ? = T??

We know that the Targ genes are strongest, more dominant,. So we continue with lets says still 33% Targ Blood.

Aerion (T??) marries Valaena(TV), who has a Targ decendend mother(T) and Velaryon Father(V).

T?? x TV = TTV??

Now it becomes trickier. The blood is now divided by  3 (technicly 4, but meh) different blood lines. 2x Targ blood, 2x unknown blood and 1x Velaryon blood. So 40% Targ, 40% ?, and 20% Velaryon. Is the blood of Aegon the Conqueror and his sister wives. Meaning that bood Meagor and Aenys are also 40% Targaryen blood.

Aenys (TTV??) marries Alyssa Velaryon (She has some massey blood, but we’re disregarding it.) (V).

TTV?? x V = TTVV??

So now we have 33 % of Targ, Velaryon and ? Blood. For Jaeharys and Alyssane. And therefor als 33% for their children. Aemon marries Jocelyn (if we say that Orys is also 40% Targ, 60% ?, and he marries Durrandon (B-blood)

Jocelyn: TT??? x B = TTB???

Makes Jocelyn also has 33% Targ blood. And 16,67 % Durrandon/Baretheon Blood.

Their children would be:

TTVV?? x TTB??? = TTTTVVB????? = T4V2B1?5

Making Rheanys still 33% Targaryen, 16,67% Velaryon, 8,33% Baretheon, and 41,67% a mix of different unknow blood sources.

Viserys and Deamon would still be TTVV??, so still 33% Targaryen.

Aemma is TTVV?? + A: 28,57% Targaryen blood. 28,57% Velaryon Blood, 14,3% Arryn Blood, and 28,57% mix.

Making Rhaenyra:

TTVV?? x TTVVA?? = T4V4A1?4

30,77% Targaryen, 30,77% Velaryon, 7,7% Arryn, and 30,77% mix.

The Hightower children are TTVV?? + H, making them: (same as Aemma) 28,57% Targaryen, 28,57% Velaryon, 14,3% Hightower, 28,57% mix.

Now Rhaenyra her children are: T4V4A1?4 + S : 7,14% Arryn, 7,14% Strong, 28,57% Targaryen, 28,57% Velaryon, and 28,57% mix.

So when it comes down to it, Jacaerys and Aegon II are exactly the same amount of Targaryen. So the argument about someone being more or less Targaryen is completly inrelevant.

Now if we look at Aegon III, we have Rhaenyra (T4V4A1?4) + Daemon (TTVV??)

Aegon III & Viserys II

T4V4A1?4 x TTVV?? = T6V6A1?6

Making them 31,58 % Targaryen, Velaryon and mix, and 5,26% Arryn.

I will skip Aegon III children because their line ends and goes back to Viserys II. Viserys II marries Larra Rogore (R). Making their children: T6V6A1R1?6, and therefor 30% Targ, Vela, mix and 5% Arryn and Rogore.

Aegon IV marries his sister Naerys so their blood stays the same, Daeron II is therefor still 30% Targ. His children however will also have Martell blood. T6V6A1R1M1?6, making them 28,57% Targ, Vela, and mix, aswell as 4,76% Arryn, Rogore and Martell.

We then move on to Maekar, who marries Dyanna Dayne. T6V6A1R1M1D1?6, making Aegon V, 27,27% Targ, Vela, mix, and 4,55% Arryn, Rogore, Martell and Dayne. Aegon V marries Bertha Blackwood (W)

T6V6A1R1M1D1W1?6, making Jaehaerys II, 26,08% Targ, Vela and unknown mix with 4,35% Arryn, Rogore, Martell, Dayne and Blackwood.

Jaehaerys marries his sister, so Aerys II stays 26,08% Targ, Aerys marries his sister, so Rhaegar, Viserys and Danaerys are all 26,08% Targaryen, 26,08% Velaryon, 4,35% Arryn, 4,35% Rogore, 4,35% Martell, 4,35% Dayne, 4,35% Blackwood and 26,08% unknown mix. (I know this adds up to 99,99%, but that has to do with me not using all the numbers after the comma.)

Rhaegar his children by Elia Martell are T6V6A1R1M2D1W1?6, 4,17% Arryn, Rogore, Dayne, Blackwood, 8,33% Martell and 25% Targaryen, Velaryon and unknown mix.

And Jon snow would be the same, only then 4,17% Arryn, Rogore, Dayne, Blackwood, Martell and Stark, with 25% Targaryen, Velaryon, and unknown mix.

This has now made me question how much Targaryen blood is really necessary for dragon bonding. 25% seems to still be enough, so does that mean that there might be other people who might be able to do it.

Jaehaerys II has a sister who marries a Baratheon. So T6V6A1R1M1D1W1?6 + B (they started with Targ blood, but have not married into it for many generations so there is no way of knowing how much there is left. But no matter)

T6V6A1R1M1D1W1B1?6, 25% Targblood for Steffon, he marries and Evermont.

T6V6A1R1M1D1W1B1E1?6, 24% Targblood for Robbert, Stannis and Renly. Robert his children would be 23,08% Targblood, and same would be for Shireen. So would Shireen or any of Robert’s bastard be able to bond with a dragon if given the change? And when is there too little blood for a dragon to recognize it?

[seventhwinterwolf]

If there had been no WotFK, who do you think the Stark children would have married?

I LOVE THESE QUESTIONS!

So aside from two of my favorite pairings that did and did not quite come to fruition in the show (Bran x Meera, Arya x Gendry) I believe that most of the Stark children would have married Northerners and maybe one or two in the Riverlands and Vale. The honor of having a Stark enter their families is such a highly coveted value in the North and I firmly stand that Ned would seek to bestow every care on his bannerman without forcing his children into disagreeable arrangements or otherwise before they are ready.

Robb Stark

Myrcella Baratheon

Wynafryd Manderly

Dacey Mormont

Eddara Tallhart

Alys Karstark

As the heir of Winterfell and firstborn son of the Hand of the King, Robb would have every single young lady's eye. I would expect Robb to marry a Northerner, unless it was altered where King Robert wanted Myrcella married to honor Ned’s friendship and support over the many decades. This would then alleviate Sansa from Joffrey’s torment and Myrcella had developed a little crush on Robb during her time at Winterfell in AGOT. There are also unnamed daughters in House Umber that could be plausible for Robb’s consideration. Karstark and Tallhart seem on the sightly less likely side since Rickard Karstark had tried for several years to get Robb / Ned interested in his daughter but it never landed. Alys does end up being married to another northern lord.

Dacey and Robb become friends during the WOT5K, she is a bit older than him and might be too unladylike for Catelyn's approval. Dacey and Wynafryd are both the heirs to Bear Island and White Harbor, but since the two of them have younger sisters I can believe that their heiress title could be passed to a younger sister. Or one of the younger sons from Robb would become the heir to House Mormont or House Manderley. This isn't as much of an heiress big deal as Arianna Martell not marrying Willas Tyrell creating a double heir situation when Highgarden and Sunspear are much more comparable big game prizes for inheritance. Due to Wynafyrd's higher house standing and power I could see her being the forerunner for Robb to marry within the North.

While considering Robb and Margaery, it does not have as advantageous values for the Tyrells since Winterfell is so far removed geographically and politically, it seems on the more unlikely side that this pairing would happen. 

Sansa Stark

Joffrey Baratheon

Trystane Martell

Willas Tyrell (maybe Loras)

Edric Dayne

Jon Snow/Targaryen

Once free from being betrothed to Joffrey or not if Robert/Ned don't die early (or if Robb is with Myrcella), I could reasonably see Sansa having the whole of Westeros open for the opportunity from within King's Landing. I would expect her to marry outside of the North, Riverlands, and maybe even the Vale to consider one of the southernmost kingdoms. This would be one of the most to gain in political standing if it was from the Reach or Westernlands. As the firstborn daughter to the Hand of the King, Sansa would have the utmost attention and consideration for just about any great house's heir. I do see Dorne not being a forerunner though that could change if Prince Trystane Martell arrived In KL. The Baratheons outside of KL seem also not likely if she weren't involved with Joffrey. Eventually if Jon is a Targaryen and claims the throne I could see Sansa and Jon marrying to keep the North in the realm. If Sansa became a close companion to Margaery as Queen, she could easily be introduced to any lord within the Reach or in the stony mountains of Dorne nearby, which could open up House Dayne (special care for the Lady Ashara and Ned rumors) and I think that Sansa and Edric could be interesting.

Arya Stark

Beren Tallhart

Gawen Glover

Unnamed Umber Son

Gendry Waters

Maybe one of the younger Ryswells (Rickard or Roose) pending their unknown ages, I doubt Catelyn and Ned would approve of a large age gap. If Jojen Reed was not unfortunately doomed I could see Arya and him as a possible engagement. After Sansa, I find Arya to be the hardest Stark child to predict/guess a preplanned marriage for when not taking Gendry into factor.

Bran Stark

Meera Reed

Beth Cassel

Ysilla Royce

If he doesn't fall from the tower then I could see Bran going to the Vale since he has aspirations of being a knight and he could be fostered by Yohn Royce and become betrothed to his daughter Ysilla, before Mychel Redfort marries her in AFFC, or another unnamed Yohn Royce daughter. After some time in King's Landing if Robert were not to die early I could see him and Ned agreeing to send Bran and Tommen together to the Vale.

Rickon Stark

Lyanna Mormont

Wylla Manderly

I like the idea of Lyanna Mormont or Wylla Manderly to match Rickon's wild personality if Lyanna has more of her show presence rather than her minimal book appearances. With Wylla's green hair and Shaggydog's green eyes that could be potentially cute. If Robb married Dacey Mormont or Wynafyrd Manderley then I would see Rickon marrying into the other house.

[daenystheedreamer]

Tell us more about ur velayrian self insert x ashara dreams? Was it an illicit rendezvous on dragonstone or were ya getting freaky at harrenhall?

oh it was soooo lame..... she was gonna be edric dayne's mother! she's the sister of the heir to driftmark (i think his name is monford?). aurane is her like 10 year old bastard brother. she marries edric's unnamed father/lord of starfall not for political reasons at all i was NOT thinking about feudalism lmao. they marry as friends and she has a sweet cute wholesome affair with ashara <3 i was normal back then i was boring. if i were to do a gayshara fic nowadays itd be elia x ashara plotting to kill aerys. and also rhaella would be in a love triangle with joanna and Unnamed Princess of Dorne. maybe ashara would fuck around with rhaella and joanna too who knows...

[sayruq]

Thoughts on the unnamed eldest Dayne brother?

i feel like he is similar to doran which is why arthur got the sword of the morning

he had been unmarried when loreza martell, elia and oberyn came to visit starfall. loreza had hoped that should elia come back from casterly rock unattached, perhaps lord dayne and elia could marry

but he married a woman from myr soon after

edric got his looks though

the couple had trouble getting pregnant again so as a result edric is their only child. his wife didn't mind that wylla breastfed edric because it's common practice in myr among noble families

he didn't understand his brother or his sister's actions and he was so worried about his family's connection to lyanna's whereabouts during robert's rebellion, that he let people make their own assumptions about what went down. it's easier to hide the truth that way

though truth be told, even if he defended ashara's honor, not many would believe him

he betrothed allyria to beric dondarion after an attempt to betroth her to quentyn fell through

later he sent his son to beric in hopes of ensuring that the marcher lord and his people get used to the presence of a dayne before allyria got married

unlike his more famous siblings, the eldest dayne brother is quiet and far more interested in expanding his house's wealth than becoming renown

his wife died unexpectedly and he soon followed her. they didn't have the kind of romance that singers would write about but they had a strong friendship and a solid marriage. she was his right hand man which is why he appointed allyria as edric's regent instead of any dayne at high hermitage

[hollowwhisperings]

Like many(?) fans of ASOIAF, I've a silly fondness for "Rickeen" - the concept of a post-War for the Dawn teen Rickon Stark, raised in Skagos by Osha & half a wolf because of so frequently warging with Shaggydog, deciding to steal himself the bookish, Southron Princess "Shireen" because she's kind and has been teaching him how to Lord. Hijinks ensue.

PRACTICALLY speaking, of course, is the very real Powerhouse that their marriage would create: Shireen is the Princess of Dragonstone, the legal heir to the Iron Throne (by right of Baratheon conquest & her NOT being a bastard) and, with the demise of Renly Baratheon, Heir Apparent to the Stormlands; Rickon is Heir Apparent of The North (Robb's Will notwithstanding) and, by right of his being male & able-bodied, the rightful Lord of Winterfell. That Rickon's been AWOL with Osha, presumably learning the ways of the freefolk & speaking The Old Tongue, conveniently sets him up for acceptance from both the Great Northern Houses (your Manderlys and Umbers and Mormonts) AND all the freefolk settling in The New Gift.

But what is the state of things for this ship, as set up in canon?

Lord Davos Seaworth, smuggler extraordinaire & Hand to King Stannis, has been sent by Lord Wyman Manderly (leader & head-schemer for a good third of the many Conspiracies Great & Northern) to fetch 5-year old Rickon from Skagos, an island just off the coast from Eastwatch, south of Hardhome, and known for cannibalistic wildlings & deadly unicorns.

Meanwhile, at Castle Black, Princess Shireen is presumably in the King's Tower & thus "guarded" from the ongoing mutiny by Wun-Wun the Giant. Shireen is, at this point in the story, 11 years old & is good friends with Devan Seaworth (13), eldest surviving son of the Onion Knight and thusly his heir, and her double-cousin Edric Storm (13, Robert's bastard by a lady Florent, currently secreted away in the Free Cities & out of the reach of Melissandre's arsony).

Had Queen Selyse not pitched fuss over which derelict castle at The Wall would best befit her station (she HAD wanted the Nightfort but, uh, Castle Black was safer & less haunted), she and her court (Shireen included) would still be at Eastwatch. Lord Davos set out for Skagos from White Harbour & Eastwatch is the closest friendly port from Skagos, and it's very plausible that Lord Manderly had this in mind when charging our Onion Knight with his fetchquest: a betrothal agreement, between Rickon & Shireen would secure a degree of King Robb's legacy, give Stannis a kingdom (the Stormlands currently warring against itself & the Golden Company of "Aegon VI"), and afford to both children some obligatory protection from harm through their respective factions.

As it stands, it's unlikely that 5-year old Rickon will be leading an army of Skagosi unicorns to hassle mutineers, Freys, and Boltons from atop his direwolf, & unlikelier that little Shireen would safely walk amongst freefolk with the scars of [her surviving] Grey Scale so obviously on her face. I do think they'd find each other fascinating, if introduced, but babysitting one's betrothed during an apocalypse is a scenario unlikely to be long-lived should it occur in Winds.

[dwellordream]

What do we know about Arthur Dayne that we don’t know about Ashara Dayne?

“Our knees do not bend easily.” - Arthur Dayne

We are told by Catelyn that Arthur was considered the deadliest of Aerys’ Kingsguard. We are told by Jon Connington that Arthur was a very efficient, perhaps even rigid battle commander who had high standards for his men. We are told by GRRM that Arthur would be evenly matched against Ser Barristan in an ordinary fight, but would likely beat Barristan if wielding Dawn. We are told by Jaime the tale of how Arthur led the Kingsguard against the Kingswood Brotherhood, ultimately using diplomacy with the smallfolk to win their trust and root out the Brotherhood. 

We are also told he faced the Smiling Knight in single combat, chivalrously allowing his enemy to get a fresh weapon when his sword broke. We are told that Arthur was a skilled jouster only outdone by Rhaegar himself. We are told that Arthur assisted Rhaegar, along with Oswell Whent, in the presumed abduction of Lyanna Stark. We are told he died fighting Ned and his companions, and almost killed Ned himself, ‘if not for Howland Reed’. We are told Ned still respected him enough to give him a proper burial along with his companions and return his sword to his sister. 

What do we know about Ashara Dayne?

“....” - Ashara Dayne

We are told Ashara was beautiful and had eyes similar to Dany’s. We are told she was a new lady in waiting to Elia during Harrenhal and that she danced with several men the first night of the tourney. We are told Ned was rumored to have fallen in love at first sight with her, and we are told by Barristan that he loved her despite barely knowing her. Barristan also tells us Ashara was reportedly ‘dishonored’ by a man at Harrenhal. We are told she had a stillborn daughter. We are told that after her brother’s sword was returned to her, Ashara jumped to her death. That is all. 

What do we know about Oswell Whent that we don’t know about Minisa Whent?

“Woe to the Usurper if we had been.” - Oswell Whent

We are told that Oswell’s family hosted the infamous Tourney at Harrenhal and that it was rumored Rhaegar was using Oswell as a go-between to arrange for secret meetings with the lords of the realm at Harrenhal, under the guise of the tourney, in order to possibly discuss removing Aerys from power. We are told Oswell aided Rhaegar in the presumed abduction of Lyanna Stark. We are told Oswell was known for his dark sense of humor and that he expressed contempt for Robert’s victory at the Trident. 

What do we know about Minisa Whent?

“...” - Minisa Whent

We know Catelyn remembers Minisa as calm and kind, with soft hands. We know she kept gardens at Riverrun. We know she died in childbirth with her fourth son. 

What do we know about Rickard Stark that we don’t know about Lyarra Stark?

“Lord Rickard demanded a trial by combat.” - Varys

We know Rickard visited King’s Landing once in 264 AC to meet with Aerys, and this visit prompted Aerys to consider extending the reach of the North beyond the Wall. We know Olenna Redwyne met him at least once. We know Rickard was an ambition and driven man who had high expectations for all his children’s futures, betrothing Brandon to Catelyn and Lyanna to Robert. He warded Ned in the south, likely as part of that same ambition, wanting to make close ties among the other great houses of Tully, Arryn, and Baratheon. It is rumored this was due to the influence of his maester. 

We know Rickard took these arrangements seriously and we know he was a pretty serious and determined person. We know he held law and tradition in high esteem and thus came to court when Aerys demanded, likely hoping to persuade Aerys to free Brandon and his friends or at least bargain down the charges against them. We know when accused of treason himself he demanded a trial by combat. We know exactly how he died, in excruciating agony, as his son watched and desperately tried to save him. 

What do we know about Lyarra Stark?

“Lady Stark. She died.” - GRRM

What do we know about Lewyn Martell that we don’t know about the Unnamed Princess of Dorne?

“My uncle always said that it was the sword in a man’s hand that determined his worth, not the one between his legs.” - Arianne Martell 

We know Lewyn was put in the terrible position of having his niece used as a hostage against him in order to have him lead Dornishmen in fighting at the Trident. While Lewyn likely had no desire to see Robert triumph, he was unable to steal away with his niece and great-niece and nephew to Dorne or be there to protect them from Aerys or the Lannisters. We know who killed Lewyn, Ser Lyn Corbray. 

We know he was a loving and friendly great uncle to Arianne as a little girl, who would tickle her and make her laugh. We know he kept a paramour, a woman he presumably loved, against his oaths of chastity as a Kingsguard, and that his fellow knights knew this but kept his secret out of respect for him as a man. 

What do we know about the Unnamed Princess of Dorne? “This is your realm. Remember them, in everything you do.” - Unnamed Princess of Dorne

We know she suffered multiple miscarriages and that she was a dear friend to both Joanna and Rhaella. We know she was well traveled and ambitious for her children’s futures. We know she and Joanna reportedly once spoke of betrothing their children together. We know Tywin was incensed when her daughter Elia was betrothed to Rhaegar after he coldly rejected her offers for Jaime or Cersei’s hands. And she’s not even given the fucking respect and dignity of a name. 

[knottheeonly]

“I know a great deal about them, you know. I know a great deal more than I should. If it were up to the Lannisters, history would tell nothing of them at all. Nothing but they were traitors, same as my parents, same as I.”

--- 0 --- 0 --- 0 ---

The Women of House Reyne - (pertaining to my au)

CEREDIN REYNE (nee Ambrose): Born to Lady Delith Ambrose (nee Dayne) and Lord Aubrey Ambrose, Blonde haired and violet eyed, Mother to 5, Sister to 2, Married to Lord Eddiyn Reyne. Declared as beautiful as any Targaryen, and quite alike an exotic rose. Married to improve the prospects of her family, and positioned a great many men of her house in positions of high regard. Far more influential than she would ever let on.

“Eyes like hers haunt even the bravest of men, and her fiery tongue does wither their souls. Only the heart of a lion stood a chance against a beauty such as hers.”

-

ELLYN REYNE: Daughter of Castemere, Born to Lady Ceredin Reyne (nee Ambrose) and Lord Eddiyn Reyne. Blonde haired and lilac eyed, Sister to 2, Mother to none, Engaged to Lord Jasper Arryn. Rumoured to have lied with women, particularly a Bastard of the Reach.  Declared fairer than even her mother, and whittier too, with a love for steel instead of needles. Fiercer than any of her siblings, and unapologetically unbowed in the face of danger. Died before she could marry Lord Jasper or bear him any children.

“She sought a peaceful afterlife - Lady Ellyn - and she threw herself from the highest point of her home to gain it.”

-

AUBREYN ARRYN (nee Reyne): Daughter of Castemere, Born to Lady Ceredin Reyne and Lord Eddiyn Reyne. Blonde haired and violet eyed, Sister to Ellyn Reyne, Mother to Four, Married to Lord Jasper Arryn. She was often favoured far after her sister, though she was no less fair. She enjoyed the life of a Lady, embroidery was always far better to her than the steel her sister spent all her time wasting away at. Upon her sister’s death she was set to marry Lord Jasper Arryn and become Lady of the Vale in her sister’s place. 

“It was not his company that Lady Aubreyn cherished, but the title her husband gave her. There were only two things more important than family, she thought, power and blood.”

-

RAYENNA TARGARYEN (nee Reyne): Daughter of Castemere, Sister of Aubreyn Arryn and Ellyn Reyne, Born to Lady Ceredin Reyne and Lord Eddiyn Reyne. Blonde Haired and Lilac Eyed, Mother to 3. Married to King Aegon Targaryen. First Queen to be birthed from House Reyne - youngest daughter, yet chose as Queen above all others for her grace and poise.

“A great many songs have been sung for Queen Rayenna - but none could ever do her justice.”

-

ALYSANNE REYNE (nee Tyrell): Only daughter of Lord Luthor Tyrell and Lady Aeydin Tyrell (nee Oakheart) Sister in Law of Queen Rayenna Targaryen (nee Reyne) and Auberyn Arryn (nee Reyne), Mother to 2. Red-haired and green eyed, child of Highgarden. Married to Lord Rickardd Reyne - who named her his Queen of Love and Beauty at each tourney he won.

“She was a rose in every sense of the word, sharp and witty, clever and quick - all veiled in a beautiful smile and graceful air. They say she was the prettiest rose to ever come of Highgarden.”

-

NARIN MORMONT (nee Reyne): Daughter of Castemere, Born to Lady Alysanne Reyne (nee Tyrell) and Lord Rickardd Reyne. Mother to 6. Married to Lord Landon Mormont. Red haired and green eyed. Selectively mute, but ambitious and witty all the same. Embroidered many tapestries for King’s Landing and the Red Keep, as well as in various other castles scattered around Westeros. 

“Lady Narin made the elaborate drapings of the castles we see today - embroidered them until her hands were raw from it - all the many tapestries that line these halls were woven by her careful hands.”

-

EMBYL REYNE (nee Royce): Daughter of Runestone, Black hair and green eyes, beautiful but thought to be incredibly unkind. Married Lord Derric Reyne unhappily, but birthed him two sons and a daughter. Often described as appearing absentminded when not sharp and cold.

“Lady Embyl is who I often wished I could be back in Casterly Rock. Someone who was feared, who no one would dare to bother. When I was just past my eighth or ninth name day I was in the Red Keep and I thought to try it - being cold and sharp to everyone surrounding me. It led me to hit a King, and I never once wished to be like her again.”

-

ADRIANNE REDWYNE (nee Reyne): Only daughter of Lady Embyll Reyne and Lord Derric Reyne. Strawberry Blonde Hair and Green Eyed, wife of Lord Runthford Redwyne, Mother to 4. Crowned Queen of Love and Beauty by Derric’s brother - but fell in love with Derric instead and had a notably happy marriage. They were a jovial, boisterous couple and family, who prospered tremendously. 

“She was so terribly happy, Ambrose often thought, how I wish to one day have that, too.”

-

UMBER REYNE (nee Penrose): Daughter of Parchments - born to Lady Joy Penrose (nee Poole) and Lord Aelin Penrose. Blonde hair and Green Eyes, a trait she passed to all of her children, causing the original purple and blue shades to become recessive. Married to Lord Roalde Reyne. Bold and loud, adored her husband but despised proper etiquette. Died in Battle beside her husband - though later claimed to have died at home from excess injuries.

“She was killed in battle, defending her husband and her home. It is more than I can say for most of the Knights in Westeros.”

-

KYSEE MARTELL (nee Reyne): Eldest Daughter of Lady Umber Reyne (nee Penrose) and Lord Roalde Rene. Blonde haired and green eyed - with a constellation of freckles dotting every inch of her. Married the second Prince of Dorne - Prince Eyrlan Martell - and had a happy marriage with him and various consorts. Was said to lie with men and women openly and face no ridicule. She was barren, and birthed no children - but the radiance in her smile and the kindness in her heart was said to have done more than enough to make up for it.

“She was as radiant as the sun on her husband’s house crest. Free in every sense of the word, untethered and unchained. It must have been bliss to have known such a thing.”

-

JAYNE LYNDERLY (nee Reyne): Daughter of Castemere, third child of Lord Roalde and Lady Umber. Blonde hair and eyes the color of freshly picked sage. Married to Elric Lynderly who is rumored to have much preferred the company of men than women. She birthed him five sons - though it is rumoured that she didn’t prefer the company of men - just as he didn’t wish for the company of women.

“Timid and gentle, she would surely have made a better flower than a snake. Yet, she had a advantageous marriage. Perhaps in that way she was smarter than any of us.”

-

GEMMA SELMY (nee Reyne): Youngest child of Lady Umber and Lord Roalde, Blonde hair and Green eyes, Mother to 3. Married to Lord Lynell Selmy, Mother of Ser Lyonel Selmy and Grandmother of Ser Barristan the Bold. Fierce temper and a quick wit, but demure enough to pass as a Lady of High Society. Lady in waiting to a Targaryen Queen - though the exact one is up for dispute - and rumoured to be her closest confidante and friend.

“Stubborn and brash, Lady Gemma had a shocking skill at winning over the opposing party. So much so that it is said she once convinced an opponent of her husband’s to surrender while openly mocking him.”

-

TYRREI REYNE (nee Qorgyle): Daughter of Sandstone - Born in Dorne to Lord Quentyn Qorgyle and an unnamed wife. Sun-kissed skin, onyx hair, and bright green eyes. Mother to 3 sons, most of which taking her husband’s looks instead of her own. Married Ser Robb Reyne, and had a love-filled marriage until his death - at which point she closed off from the rest of the world, and later flung herself into the ocean.

“There was sunlight in her eyes and warmth in her smile until the day he died - then she became the moon and gave herself to the tides.”

-

FENRYRE REYNE (nee Hightower): Daughter of Oldtown, light brown hair and blue eyed. Born to Lord Garth Hightower and Lady Arissane Hightower - but not much else is known. She is said to have been devastatingly beautiful, but painfully quiet. Married to Lord Renrye Reyne - mother to three.

“Castemere was different from Oldtown - no a place for a quiet, shy beauty like Lady Fenryre - but she made it her home all the same.”

-

BELLEN MALLISTER (nee Reyne): Only daughter of Lady Fenryre Reyne and Lord Renrye Reyne - Blonde Hair and Green Eyes, raised in Casterly Rock. Declared Queen of Love and Beauty by Lord Jeffory Mallister, with whom she later was wed. Kind and Beloved by all the smallfolk, but said to be cruel to servants - the latter of which is heavily disputed. 

“She was the Maiden come to life, beautiful and kind as everyone ought to be. Now she lies in a sept, but her kindness still rings throughout Seagard.”

-

HELIA REYNE (nee Harlaw): Daughter of Ten Towers, raised on the Iron Islands, fourth daughter of Lord Harlaw and his sixth Wife. Ashen hair and blue eyes. Married to Lord Rickard Reyne, Mother to Lord Robert Reyne, Grandmother to Lord Roger Reyne. Commander of the second largest sea-fleet in the Seven Kingdoms. Well-traveled and fiery. Said to be as dangerous as a storm at sea.

“Iron and Seafoam ran through her veins. Lady Helia was the calm before the storm, just as she was everything that came after.”

-

ARRYE TARTH (nee Reyne): Daughter of Castemere, born to Lord Rickard Reyne and Lady Helia Reyne. Blonde haired and blue eyed. Married to Lord Derren Tarth, Mother of 1. As wild as the sea, as unpredictable as the waves, with the beauty of a tempest - dangerous and captivating. Lived a happy life, but died before the rebellion of her niece and nephews. 

“In Tarth she got to see the waters and beaches her mother often spoke of, the bluest of waters and the finest of sands. It was her own form of heaven.”

-

MORGANA REYNE (nee Tarly): Daughter of the Reach, Married to Lord Robert Reyne, Mother to 3 Brown haired and blue eyed. Rumoured to have been skilled in sword fighting and archery, and to have participated as a Mystery Knight in a tourney or two. None of the rumours were confirmed before her death.

“She was every bit a Lady as she was a Knight, the Tarly girl, and she knew just the words to convince you she was neither.”

-

ELLYN TARBECK [Lannister Formerly] (nee Reyne): Daughter of Castemere. Sister to Lord Roger Reyne, Aunt to Lady Ambrose Reyne. Blonde Hair and Green Eyes. Ambitious, sole goal from childhood to be Lady of Casterly Rock. Engaged to Lord Tywald Lannister before his and her father’s demise. Married and Widowed to Lord Tion Lannister. Married to Lord Walderan Tarbeck. A sharp, imposing woman, who gave so many riches to her brothers while a Lannister that a Lord once said that, "Lady Ellyn must be a sorceress, for she has made it rain inside the Rock all year."

“Our rise and our fall weighed heavy in her hands from the day she was set to marry Lord Tywald. It was her greed that tipped the scales.”

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LYSANNA REYNE (nee Wylde): Daughter of the Rain House, Married to Lord Roger Reyne, Mother to 5. Had an arranged marriage, but grew to love her husband. Was said to be as kind as she was beautiful, and a few knights even tried to crown her their Queen of Love and Beauty before, and even after she was wed to Lord Roger. She often recounted missing her home to her Ladies, one of whom told this to a surviving guard. Didn’t believe in the rebellion, but supported her husband anyway - while secretly refusing her family’s request to get involved.

“She had always hated the water, your mother. Perhaps she’d always known it would be the root of her demise.”

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DELLYN REYNE: Eldest daughter of Lord Roger Reyne and Lady Lysanna Reyne. Was seventeen and set to be married to an unnamed Lord upon the time of her death. Claimed to have been full of light and life, and seeming far younger than all her years. Blonde haired and green eyed. Loving and doting. Servants recalled her being doting on all her younger siblings, and some even claim she urged them to leave feeling, “something terrible will happen if you do not.”

“No songs will be sung of the tragedy she faced. Her promised wed another, and she lays forgotten in a crypt. Ballads are made of worse things - surely it is the least she deserves.”

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WYLLA REYNE: Daughter of Castemere, Second Daughter of Lord Roger and his wife, Lady Lysanna. Blonde haired with eyes described as being, “akin to sapphires.” Rumoured to have been quiet and studious, much preferring books to the company of others, especially not men. She is said to have preferred women over men, once asking her mother, “But why must I marry a Lord? Wouldn’t a Lady be enough?” Only two of her servants survived the rebellion.

“In her books she came alive, reading and studying all she could. I often wonder if it was because she knew she would never have time to learn all that she wanted to.”

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QWENTIN REYNE: Daughter of Castemere, Third Daughter of Lord and Lady Reyne. Vivacious and graceful, despite having been a mere 13 years of age upon her demise. Crowned a Queen of Love and Beauty on her twelfth name day at the tourney held in her honor. Blonde haired and lilac eyed. Described as being a kind spirit, who spent most of her days wandering the gardens or peering off the cliffs. 

“She was graced with violent purple eyes that lit up a room, and now they’re rotting in a crypt somewhere - never to be looked upon again.”

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AMBROSE REYNE: Last daughter of Castemere and only surviving child of Lord Roger Reyne and Lady Lysanna Reyne. Raised from the age of six by Lannisters, quiet and quick, with a hidden cunning and witty nature. Vivacious and sly, but outwardly demure and complacent. Blonde haired and Green eyed. Future Queen in the North, Lady of Casterly Rock, and Queen in the North all over again.

“She was the fire and the fury and the spirit of every Lion before her - as bold as she ought to be. Every Man, Woman, or King who met her would learn not to cross her - it was just a matter of time.”

--- 0 --- 0 --- 0 ---

“Each night before I fall asleep I recite their names in my head, lest I forget who they were and who they make me. My family name has been the source of my deepest tragedies and my greatest joys - I would not wish to forget it. Not for anything in the world.”

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(shoutout to @shiftingshiftingshifting for allowing me to include her OC Derren Tarth as a marriage partner!)

[arielseaworth]

arthur n allyria one

||A SONG OF SIBLINGS||

For the prompt: Arthur Dayne & Allyria Dayne, childhood memory

She was the youngest, the youngest by quite a number of years, and now she was the last. All that remained were her memories, pale imitations of the flesh and blood her brothers and sister had been. In Arthur’s case especially, those memories seemed so slight, so flimsy and inadequate.

Alfred was the heir and then the lord, so he was never far from Starfall for long, aside from the few years he had spent squiring for Lord Fowler, and his time at the Water Gardens before that. Ashara never stirred from Starfall before she was chosen to be one of Princess Elia’s companions. Arthur though … at times it had seemed to the girl Allyria had been that her second brother was more a myth than a man, like a figure from the sweet songs of chivalry her other brother was fond of.  

One of the faded tapestries adorning the walls in the great hall of Starfall portrayed an unnamed Dayne wielding Dawn. No one really knew which Sword of the Morning he was. His identity was lost in the mist of time.When Allyria was a little girl, she was convinced that the knight depicted in that tapestry was her brother Arthur. Each time he returned to Starfall, she would gaze at his face and be struck anew at how different it was from how she thought it should be.

His true face she only saw once or twice a year. The knight in the tapestry though … he was always there to be stared at, to be confided with, to be asked questions after questions regarding his seemingly never-ending journey away from home.  

She could recall ever making him laugh only once. He was cleaning his sword, engrossed in the task while she was busy committing his true face to memory. When he asked, “Do you know the tale of how Dawn was forged, little sister?” she was so startled that she almost fell from her chair.

“It was supposedly forged from the heart of a fallen star,” she replied.   

Her brother smiled. “Supposedly?”

“Stars don’t have hearts. They’re stars, not sheep.”

That was when her brother laughed. Allyria did her best to commit the sound to memory. The knight in the tapestry could never laugh. He had a sort of half-smile, if you looked at him from a certain angle, but his smile was not as sweet as her brother’s.

After his laughter subsided, Arthur said, “Most people would have said that stars are not like us, that stars don’t have hearts like men and women do.”

“We had sheep’s heart for supper when you were gone,” Allyria confided. “If you were not gone so much, you could have eaten it too.” 

“Was it tasty?”

“The tastiest,” she declared, though in truth, she had eaten only a very small bite.

“When I return from the tourney, perhaps we could have sheep’s heart for supper.”

“To celebrate your victory, oh yes,” said Allyria, her eyes gleaming.

[comrademango]

saw someone on r/asoiaf try to assert that jon snow wasn't named after jon arryn but after the unnamed lord dayne who in turn named his son (edric "ned" dayne) after ned and seriously pls grrm finish twow we already have people overcomplicating why ned named his fake bastard/actual nephew after the man who fostered him like a second father

[dornedaily]

Hi there! Not sure if you've been asked this before, but I'm confused about Dorne's princess/prince titles. Doran is a prince but his wife, Mellario, was never recognized as princess consort. Is because she's a foreign wife? So, what if Oberyn got married Cersei? She woulnd't be his princess consort? Idk, sometimes Dorne seems more like a patriarchal society.

@warsofasoiaf​ and @goodqueenaly​ have answered part of your question in this post :)

I’d add to their points that Nymeria named her husband Mors Prince of Dorne when they married.

The flames lit the coast for fifty leagues as hundreds of leaking, listing hulks were put to the torch and turned to ash; in the light of their burning, Princess Nymeria named Mors Martell the Prince of Dorne, in the Rhoynish style, asserting his dominion over [the region]. (The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships)

The role distribution between Nymeria and her husbands seems to be more clearly delimited. It is Nymeria first, her husbands second. Yet they are also said to be consorts. However, we can assume that Mors played a bigger role than Lord Uller or Lord Davos Dayne (Nymeria’s other two husbands) given his active and leading part in Nymeria’s war. The two were probably on a equal footing, or so we’re led to think so.

Nymeria herself remained the unquestioned ruler of Dorne for almost twentyseven years, her husbands serving only as counselors and consorts. (The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships)

No fewer than six conquered kings were sent to the Wall in golden fetters by Nymeria and her prince, until only the greatest of their foes remained. (The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: Ten Thousand Ships)

The title of Prince/Princess Consort remained in use and did not disappear over time:

The wife of King Viserys II Targaryen [...] was the Lady Larra Rogare of Lys. [...] Her father, Lysandro Rogare, was the head of a wealthy banking family whose power waxed even greater following the alliance to the Targaryens. Lysandro assumed the style of First Magister for Life, and men spoke of him as Lysandro the Magnificent. But he and his brother Drazenko, the Prince Consort of Dorne, died within a day of one another, beginning the precipitous fall of the Rogares both in Lys and the Seven Kingdoms. (The World of Ice and Fire - The Free Cities: The Quarrelsome Daughters: Myr, Lys and Tyrosh)

It was when I visited Casterly Rock with my mother, her consort, and my sister Elia. (Oberyn Martell - A Storm of Swords, Tyrion V)

Arianne watched him warily. He is highborn enough to make a worthy consort, she thought. (A Feast For Crows, The Queenmaker)

Unless Prince Doran had attainted her, she remained the lawful heir to Sunspear; the man who married her would one day rule Dorne by her side. Arianne could only pray that her rescuer would prove younger than the greybeards her father had offered her over the years. "I want a consort with teeth," she had told him when she refused the last. (A Feast For Crows, The Princess in the Tower)

"Because I knew that you would spurn him. I had to be seen to try to find a consort for you once you'd reached a certain age, else it would have raised suspicions, but I dared not bring you any man you might accept.“ (Doran Martell - A Feast For Crows, The Princess in the Tower)

Elia was her cousin, but half a child, and Daemon Sand... things had never been the same between her and the Bastard of Godsgrace after her father refused his offer for her hand. He was a boy then, and bastard born, no fit consort for a princess of Dorne, he should have known better. (The Winds of Winter - Arianne I)

The question thus becomes whether or not there is a tradition of Dorne’s ruler naming his/her spouse Prince/Princess consort or if that title is automatically granted. In the aforementioned post, @goodqueenaly​ points out that Aliandra Martell named her husband Drazenko Rogare Prince Consort. But at the same time, we’re told numerous times that Arianne’s husband will be her consort, no matter what. So what is it?

My guess is that there is indeed a tradition of naming the spouse Prince/Princess Consort, even though the title seems to be a given and is granted automatically. It also seems that that said tradition is important enough to be mentioned (in order to obtain and assert legitimacy?) when the consort is foreign: Mors was a foreigner to Nymeria, Drazenko was from Lys.

When it comes to Mellario, she is only referred as “Lady Mellario” or “Lady Mellario of Norvos” and not consort. My guess? Two points need to be put forward:

Although they are still married, Doran and Mellario are estranged and she’s back in Norvos. It’s no secret. I bet this has its importance. (think Princess Diana before/after her divorce: her title changed from “Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales” to “Diana, Princess of Wales”) It would be a slap in the face of Dorne and the ruling of Dorne to have someone retaining the title of Princess Consort even though she’s not even there and hasn’t been for years. There is some responsibility that comes with being consort, after all.

Mellario is a noblewoman from Norvos. Norvoshi nobles seem to be extremely proud: the high city of Norvos where the ancient nobility lives is ringed by mighty stone walls. It is not impossible that Mellario did not want the consort title so as to retain her own Norvoshi noble title. It could also be that she did not keep the consort title when she left Dorne for Norvos.

However, given that Mellario is foreign, if there is a tradition of having to name the spouse consort, that tradition would be necessary in her case. Meaning that she ‘at best’ no longer uses/has the consort title and ‘at worst’ retained her Norvoshi title over the Dornish one. Both possibilities would explain why she’s not referred as Princess consort in the timeline of ASOIAF events.

Apart from Nymeria’s husbands being her consorts, all of the other consorts we know of (we critically lack info on the historical line of Martell rulers and GRRM is 100% to blame and even more his misogyny/racism which seeps through: think Unnamed Princess of Dorne, the unnamed daughter of Nymeria who succeeded her, what was the blood relation between Mara and Morion Martell, etc.) are men. But since we have Nymeria’s example, I'd say that the lack of knowledge on consorts and consort title in Dorne comes from the general lack of Martell historical info and GRRM’s male focus rather than Dorne being a patriarchal system in itself (GRRM’s intention is for Dorne not to be as patriarchal as other Westerosi regions, having in mind the subversion of traditional tropes of the medieval fantasy genre, although he can fall short of his own intention.)

So what if Oberyn had become ruling Prince and married Cersei? I think she would have gotten the consort title automatically. Why do I say that? When Arianne says she wants a consort with teeth, we have just learned about her proposed suitors over the years. None of them are Dornish but all come from the Westerosi continent and yet they are referred as becoming Arianne’s consort had she married any of them. Therefore, Cersei would be in a similar situation than any of Arianne’s Westerosi suitors: as a Westerosi, she would hence gain the consort title automatically. 

Thanks for the interesting question!

[peggycarterisacat]

Possibly one of my more controversial opinions about the series is that I don’t think the Kingsguard was blindly following Aerys without regard for personal morality. Barristan and Jon Darry seem to have seen their duty to the King above all else, but I don’t think it was the same with the others.

None of them did enough to stop Aerys, but I think they had longer-term plans that ultimately fell apart (more on that later). It’s also difficult to suss out what was actually happening because Jaime is our POV character here, and his thoughts on the Rebellion and the Kingsguard are pretty vague. He deals with his trauma by dissociating and not thinking about it, and he has a lot of trauma around this time in his life. (Plus I don’t think Jaime knew everything that was going on in the first place.)

Even in those few small mentions, though, there are hints that they weren’t completely loyal to Aerys. 

Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent, and Gerold Hightower, by remaining at the Tower of Joy, showed their loyalty to Rhaegar above Aerys. Hightower semi-publicly disagreed with Aerys at the Harrenhal tourney (by offering to return to King’s Landing in Jaime’s place). Aerys had to threaten Elia before Lewyn Martell left to lead the Dornish army in the Rebellion.

I also think the way that Arthur handled the Kingswood Brotherhood points to his resistance against Aerys.

One of the tipping points where Aerys started to become more brutal, paranoid, and vengeful was the Defiance of Duskendale in 277. (If you don’t know the details, Aerys was held captive for months and then after his rescue, he had everyone from the two Houses involved tortured and executed.)

The whole thing with the Kingswood Brotherhood happened after this, around 280-281. On one of their raids, the Brotherhood attacked Elia Martell’s escort as they were traveling through, and Ser Gerold Hightower was injured defending her. This was right around the time she married Rhaegar, and this would’ve been a really big deal. The smallfolk in the Kingswood were actively aiding and sheltering the Brotherhood. I feel like, under the circumstances, Aerys would’ve been pushing for the issue to be resolved quickly, no matter the collateral damage to disloyal smallfolk. 

Arthur was in charge of the force sent to take down the Brotherhood, and he took the slow route - he won them over by treating them with respect and successfully petitioning Aerys for better rights. I feel like I can’t put enough emphasis on that. This was a time when Aerys was paranoid, saw enemies everywhere, wouldn’t even leave the Red Keep. Arthur got Aerys to agree to make concessions for the common people of the Kingswood, who were actively acting against the throne. 

So, if several of the Kingsguard were not fully loyal to Aerys, why did no one stop him?

A World of Ice and Fire puts forward the idea that Rhaegar organized the Harrenhal tourney as a means of gathering all of the major Houses together to begin to overthrow Aerys.

Harrenhal isn’t exactly a thriving tourist destination, and at the time it was owned by the Whents, who were not a particularly wealthy family. The tourney was ostensibly held to celebrate the nameday of Lord Whent’s (unnamed) daughter, and huge prizes were offered - greater than the ones offered by Tywin Lannister at a tourney a few years prior. So someone else must have been funding the tourney. The tourney was also announced shortly after Oswell Whent visited his family - he was one of the Kingsguard who appears to have been in Rhaegar’s inner circle.

But Aerys caught wind of the plan and unexpectedly attended the tourney, derailing all of those plans.

I believe that several members of the Kingsguard were involved in Rhaegar’s plan and were trying not to arouse suspicion by seeming disloyal in the meantime. I’m not necessarily trying to defend their decision - Rhaella and Elia and many others were victims of this approach - but I imagine they thought what they were doing was for the greater good. I don’t think it was an easy decision or one they made lightly, and it ended in tragedy.

But saying that the Kingsguard were simply pawns for Aerys is a massive oversimplification of the situation.