#why hate him when shuro's right there

[ladyloveandjustice]

man some anime onlies in the tag virulently hating Kabru which like yeah he's a very flawed little man who leaves a bad impression but it feels so weird to do it after the episode when he doesn't do anything wrong??? actually does a lot of good and helpful things?? And we also got a glimpse of the reason he hates monsters and is paranoid about the dungeon which is an extremely justified Tragic Backstory Reason?

what are y'all mad about in this episode specifically, was it that he was upset about his friends dying? This is the part where you're supposed to use common sense and realize he wasn't as bad as you thought based on the fishman stuff even if his vibes are still questionable.

[captaindibbzy]

Something I find funny about this week's episode of Dungeon Meshi is this is why Autism is a disability.

Laois is trying to help. He is really trying to help, and it does end up helping! But there is that initial moment of disconnect between Laois and his party.

Laois deals with trauma by eating it, and he encourages others to do the same. He really wants to eat living armour cause it was his first death. He is so excited to share the mimick with Chillchuck. Marcel's first death was slime, but also she reacts badly to bugs and he's ready to help her catch the undine even if it's out of his strength league. It is part of his processing of things.

He also says he doesn't understand the feelings argument. Why is a cow ok to eat but a merman (fish edition) isn't? Because it doesn't "feel" right? What does that even mean!

So he sees Senshi is upset. He sees a solution to that upset. Getting more knowledge is a comfort to him. The unknown is worse than the known. The fastest point from A to B is a straight line.

So let's eat the griffin.

Of course the rest of the party have better emotional understanding and they know this is, even if well intentioned, presented callously and carelessly.

This is why Shuro "hates" Laois, cause this is what he does. This is how he acts. And it's not always cute. He never means it to be cruel, but he literally can't tell. His whole intention is to help.

It works out here. But it can be Very Difficult for people when we autistics do this. Chil and Marcel are right to be angry with him even if he can't help it. It is what it is.

[citricacidprince]

Thinking about a Dungeon Meshi swap AU where Laios is eaten instead of Falin

I think everything is relatively the same in the terms of party members. Chilchuck would stay, not for Falin, but for Laios cause he and the blond are actually close and he wouldn’t say it out loud but he’s worried about him and no I won’t take criticism. Marcille would stay, definitely for Falin but she’s worried about that weird guy in her own way. Namari would still leave and wish Falin the best. The only difference is that Shuro would definitely come this time if it was Falin who asked, however he’d probably tell her to go on ahead without him so he can get a bigger team to help and meet her down there. Senshi, of course, still joins the group.

There are a lot of little things that would change but I have such a specific scene in my brain that won’t leave.

In the swap version of the scene where Chimera Falin fucks everyone up and then run off, Falin watches as her now monsterfied and wounded brother flee, tears in her eyes as she attempts to stop herself from crying but can’t. Marcille, immediately assuming that she’s crying about Laios, tries to comfort her by saying they’re going to find a way to revert this, even if at the time she’s just saying an empty promise to make Falin feel better since she has no clue on how to fix Laios either.

But that’s not why Falin is crying.

During the fight she watched her brother very closely, the way he moved, the way he analyzed each person who came close, the way his eyes softened and he gently smiled when he recognized her for just a moment before turning back into a beast. A gut wrenching realization ran through her head the more she watched him and it got even louder when he fled.

She realized that when her brother appeared as that chimera, that monster, his yellow eyes shined bright in the dark and his toothy grin could be seen for miles, and the grin barely faded even during the battle.

Falin has never seen her brother so unapologetically happy in her entire life.

It was like he was made to be a monster.

She wondered if it would be cruel to turn him human again, a horrid thought that she might be ripping him away from what was assumedly his dream come true. Who gave her the right to ruin her brothers happiness when she knows Laios would do everything in his power to make sure his little sister was happy.

She quickly shook away the thought. She had to save her brother. She had to.

But no matter how much deeper they traveled that small persistent thought stayed in her brain, trying to make her doubt the rescue and convince her that, while he wouldn’t tell her outright, Laios would grow to despise her for turning him back a tallman when being a monster was so freeing and easy.

Falin knows in her heart that her brother could never hate her and it was just her stressed and anxious thoughts getting the best of her, but it doesn’t stop those fears from manifesting in her nightmares.

Ignore me I’m running on 2 hours of sleep and I’m loosing my mind slightly

[mobblespsycho100]

which one’s toshiro and whys he autistic?

[ID: full body colored illustration of toshiro from the dungeon meshi manga. /End ID]

THIS FREAKIN GUY!!!! anyway

[ID: anonymous tumblr ask: "would def love to hear ur autistic shuro thoughts". /End ID]

awesome. rant under the cut because it will be long

So before we understand why Toshiro is the way he is we must first understand two things abt him:

1. his household situation is a very traditional clan of warriors type situation. his father is very strict and he left his homeland to go to the Island and explore the dungeon to train and become a warrior to be someone suited as the family head

2. Eastern and Western cultures of respect/propriety are different, and Ryoko Kui highlights it well even in her fantasy world.

With that in mind, heres some bullet point rapid fire thoughts that consume my current state of dunmeshi brain:

Toshiro has an avoidant personality. He fears upsetting others due to his upbringing, and rarely tells others how he feels not because he thinks they would simply understand him but because he doesn't want to seem rude and imposing / cause offense to others especially since he's not in his own homeland / hes a foreigner that should respect the land's customs, not his own wishes.

Setting boundaries is hard for everyone, but especially autistic (and some other ND, like those with Avoidant Personality Disorder) people. Those with ASD, at least in my experience, don't want to be isolated from others. So they mask.

They mask what? their desires. their true selves. their opinions. their discomfort. all for the sake of pleasing others (who are often neurotypical)

With that in mind, suddenly, what Maizuru said abt him as a child makes sense. Due to his strict upbringing, Toshiro had to more or less hide his preferences and force himself to adapt to the rigid constraints of his culture and the pressure to be the next family head, this responsibility is his burden to bear and he cannot be someone who expresses his selfish desires instead of focusing on being a strong warrior and leader

"Why did he say he hate Laios and that it should've been obvious that he disliked/found Laios' treatment of him uncomfortable??" BECAUSE IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS. I'm not going to write off Laios' autism/autistic coding, but its baffling (note: definitely racism and bias for white autistic ppl) to me that a lot of ppl don't see Toshiro's perspective and straight up ignores it. This is a lack of wanting to be rude by speaking up that is based on culture difference on Toshiro's part, and straight up ignorant of his microagressions/racism and lack of self awareness on Laios' end. They were both right, they were both wrong too. This is a complicated conflict that cannot be boiled down to simple ableist/the NT vs ND divide. There's something called . intersectionality. Which brings me to the next point

Toshiro never actually hated Laios. He found him uncomfortable, yes. But he didn't /hate/ him, he was speaking out because he's had enough!!! he's done tolerating Laios' racist bullshit, and he's done following the arbitrary Eastern rules of respecting others and not being rude!!! He. Wants. Laios. To Understand. What. He. Was. Feeling. Because he just had enough!!!!! alright!!! he's at his limit hes at his breaking point, the one he loves is now probably beyond saving, and this is a good time as any to break the news to Laios that he thinks that Laios is impulsive and doesn't fully understand how his actions have consequences!!! Hes right abt this. His feelings on this is valid, just as valid as Laios'

General autistic traits I find from Toshiro: his admiration of Falin's indifference towards insects ("woah shes so brave and gentle!! just like me, fr!!!"), His lack of regard for his own needs and wants (needing to sleep and eat and drink) because he was super focused on saving Falin, His lack of like drastic expression changes, his discomfort with physical touch when it's initiated without consent (see: Laios hugging ppl extra bonus art by Ryoko Kui), his manner of like speaking short and concise, people pleasing tendencies, his like quick way of combat, rule upholder/routine following enjoyer, he seems distant from others even those he consider family not cuz of like any terrible reason but hes just. someone who enjoys his own time alone like. yeah

aannnnndd. thats abt it? i think.

Big part of this is definitely me relating to Shiro as an Asian (specifically chinese indonesian) person who is probably Autistic lmao. I hope this brings more insight on why Toshiro is actually one of the silliest and epiccest dunmeshi characters ever I love him

[prosciuttoon]

Toshiro/Shuro is overhated

(mirror of my thread on twitter)

ever wanted to talk abt something so bad but u have so many thoughts so u cant even begin to organize a sentence. thats me abt shuro and its why i cant give my thoughts on him. i NEED to get this out of my system bc its takign up so much memory in my brain i need that space for thinking.

so i was really surprised to find so much hate for him even tho he seems pretty normal and rational out of the whole cast. ive deducted that its mostly abt his laios fight and that the ppl who hate him probably had bad experiences w social cues and relationships w neurotypicals bc of that. theres no way to avoid it bc its pretty much Right In Your Face that laios is ND. but thats not the only factor in why their relationship is rocky. its also the culture barrier. u have to understand toshiro was raised as JAPANESE NOBILITY ofc he would be a little conservative

also culture shock. idk if u know this but jp culture is very Mind Your Own Business like a lot of other asian cultures . ofc hes gonna be weirded out by a stranger invading his space. also his names not even Shuro. its just yt ppl not pronouncing his name right and settling for whats easiest.

img src: fan translation by savaralyn2 , i think its from the adventurers bible Complete Edition bc i dont remember it in the old one

ok you get the gist of the culture aspect of it. lets go into the ND/NT clash aspect of it. yes i understand its pretty hurtful to never be told when youre acting inappropriately. i am autistic too lmao. but you have to understand that shiro is one guy and he even does realize that repressing things is one of his fatal flaws. again. asian culture. non confrontational. that sorta thing. but these are genuine frustrations. if i were him id be annoyed too but id speak out about it. set boundaries. bc im blunt. shiros not. he was taught crazy strict manners (hierarchies, respect, politeness, etc).

his problem isnt ableism its a culmination of culture barriers, how he was raised to behave, and terrible lack of communication as thing caused by "all of the above" plus he just generally keeps to himself a lot which means repressing frustrations that will explode leading to a pathetic fistfight while hes starved, exhausted, and dehydrated. also. if he was ableist he would hate laios. he doesnt hate laios. at the end of the day, they are friends. NT and ND ppl can be friends u know. there will be rifts (like their fight) but you just have to communicate misunderstandings. theyre gonna be fine lol

anyways that was my whole spiel abt it. i think i got everything out that i wanted to? my head still feels a little full so i may add more later when i remember something

also i think its a little unfair to rule out the possibility of laios and him just being 2 very different kinds of ND bc its very common for misunderstandings to occur even then. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT BUT WE NEED TO COMMUNICATE TO UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER! but for the sake of interpreting the Fight as a commentary on NT social rules and ND frustration, ill say toshiros NT. will we ever know? hes so far in the sidelines... youd really have to dig in the extra content to see the intricacies of his character.... please give him a chance

[pomodoko]

I know we joke about Chilchuck, Kabru, and Shuro and others being haters for "bullying" Laios for being autistic but I've seen some people who genuinely hate on these characters and I just wanna say: Laios did do things that were Not Great.

Just because he's our Autistic King doesn't absolve him from committing microaggression towards Shuro (asking why he looked different, picking a nickname/assuming Shuro was even his name, forcing him into a party). Which, btw, as an Asian person who grew up with different social sensibilities compared to Westerners, I have never thought of Shuro as antagonistic towards Laios. They simply had different world views and cultural mannerisms that clashed with each other. Yes, some aspects of Toshiro (Shuro) was a little conservative, but it's very clear he still respects Laios and trusts him to do the right thing. People who assume he's bullying Laios because he's ableist are Not Getting That. I might even call that racist.

Expanding upon Laios's special interest in monsters: yes, monsters are cool and eating monsters kept the party alive. But Laios also infringed on where other people drew personal boundaries when it came to cuisine, like adding fishmen egg to a dish even though Chilchuck drew a hard line against human-like monsters. It all turned out delicious and yes it changed minds, but boundaries are still boundaries! Laios isn't perfect! He was scolded for crossing those boundaries and he deserved it! And you know what, there are people like Kabru who can't eat monsters, or only do it out of courtesy, and that's fine, too. It's their own bodies and their own diets. Just because they reject Laios's ideals doesn't mean they're terrible people. I think it's not fair to assume that these characters (who all grew to trust in Laios) were hating on him simply because he was autistic.

[quyqyart]

This scene suffered from the pace being rushed which makes it hard to understand what Kabru is going on about if you didn't piece together the story through his POV. This is unfortunate cuz this moment is so realistically messy yet is the satisfying moment when the leading and supporting characters finally come into an understanding.

Kabru's antagonism makes perfect sense only if the readers remove themselves from their favoritism to Laios.

I see some confusion over why he thinks Laios is an enemy of humanity. Firstly, Laios thinks the things that killed all of his family and community are cool. This alone to me is at least sympathetic enough to see why he harbors subconscious prejudice against Laios. It doesn't make him right, but it's logical enough.

Secondly, yeah he's in over his head with his own judgment and thinks too highly of his own motive*. Thirdly, he's bit of a dick to Laios I won't even lie here (I do blame stress for the punch) . But like everyone except Falin is a fucking dick to Laios when you think about it.

And to be completely fair, ever since he knew of Laios' interest till even here still Kabru's been flip-flopping between "This man might save us all" and "He would choose monsters over humanity, we are doomed if he got the power which he is very close to getting rn, let kill him". It's not like he went 100% antagonistic.

This is getting long so,,,My breakdown of Kabru's pov, which explains his actions regarding Laios, under the readmore.

Let see thru Kabru's pov in chronological order:

Taking it from the start, Kabru has a bit of a savior complex no doubt stems from his survival guilt. Being the sole survivor of a massacre by monsters it's understandable he feel that it's his duty to find out why it happened and prevent it from happening again. We saw him and his crew talking shit about how good he is at reading people, and he totally gonna topple the greedy governor and save this place. Then they continuously got their asses handed to them by monsters cuz while Kabru read people well, he can't handle monsters. So yeah he admitted deep down he's not making it to the deep.

So now Kabru wants to find someone he can trust to save the island. He got his eyes on Laios bc he can't read him. Laios is a damn good dungeon explorer and isn't motivated by greed while almost everyone is, so what gives?

Here we see Kabru reveals he had failed to get Laios attention while trying to get to know his mysterious party. This is my interpretation only but he was definitely pissed about it too. Kabru is a bit over his head about his own charm so Laios ignoring him probably stunk.

Even after knowing Laios' special interest he was like "huh so that's how he is" until the matter of dungeon master's power come up and it occurred to him "wait would this guy who loves monsters use the power to make the dungeon full of powerful monsters that will destroy people?" He definitely did not decide Laios was humanity emeny right there, it's a possibility. As much as Laios pulling through and save the island from becoming another Utaya tragedy is a possibility.

Here, we see him desperately clinging to the former possibility until the latter took over "It's too late to get through to him i have to kill him." But did it take over? In that panic, his true feeling comes out. He still wants to understand Laios as a person, he still wants to believe in Laios after all.

Wgile it's easy to get pissed at Kabru just as we did the the Shuro/Toshiro vs Laios fight scene. Fellow autistics know how much it fucking hurt to get your social ineptitude get dragged out like that. I do think Kabru's rant here is good for Laios. This is the first time somebody has admitted to want to get to know why he like monsters despite them hating the creatures. It's not the solidarity like what he and his sister has, but it's not total rejection. Again, his own party members who care about him want nothing to do with his interest (minus Senshi)

Tldr: Kabru's alright and his actions make complete sense even if it's flawed

[chuckeroo777]

Dungeon Meshi Volume 6 Part 1

Welcome back to my liveblog! As a reminder, this is a re-read, so expect plenty of spoilers!

Don't intentionally spoil people or get thwacked in the face.

Huh. So they have been here for about a week. Makes Rin's exasperation even more understandable.

Wow, rude. I feel like if you actually knew her, that's kinda the last thing she would do. She hates eating weird stuff.

Batting 0 for 3 Maizuru. Honestly, I originally thought she was kind of a jerk, but between this and "Ninja Art: Babysitter", I think her observational skills are just really bad.

See? She doesn't have a clue why this is an atrocious idea.

I mean, it was an elf who was around during Delgal's day, and was using exceptionally potent ancient magic. Who the heck else would it be? Plus the orcs confirmed his identity. And of course Laios thinks Thistle is mad about the food.

Asebi is not amused.

Hmm... another depiction of the winged lion with horns. Also, there was no need to bring up the black magic. Marcille used a regular resurrection spell, just using ancient magic to boost the power level. If the dragon hadn't been soul-bound by Thistle, it would have gone without a hitch. People like to joke Marcille did nothing wrong, but in this one case, I think she was totally in the right. There is plenty of time for her to commit war crimes later.

Chilchuck: Gasp! You were drugging him!

Kabru is here for ALL the hot goss. From a distance.

I love how the canon explanation for why Faligon has feathers is that Dragons = Dinosaurs. It's like an atavism or something. Idk, it looks cool. Stop asking questions.

God. Marcille may be my favorite, but I relate so much to Laios. This chapter and the next are painful. (And I'm not talking about the part where everyone dies)

If only Chilchuck won the coin toss, we could've avoided this drama. (At least until Shuro saw Falin)

Now that's a trustworthy face if I ever saw one.

Well well well. If it isn't the consequences of my actions.

I know I just got done explaining that her actions were fine. Just let me be funny.

Eh, it's worth a try. It works in at least one alternate universe.

She's beauty, she's grace. She's gonna eat your face.

What's all the more heartbreaking is you get little moments where Falin shines through. She wants to pet the doggie! But then the dragon reasserts itself.

Even freakier, I think this is actually Falin too. You can see her pupils oscillate throughout this scene between normal, and elongated.

Like, I don't think it did that on purpose, but the dragon is more than happy to exploit the opening it creates.

Holm? Holm, are those golem cores? Have you been holding out on us?

Man, no wonder she freaks out. Imagine you've been a dragon for who knows how long, covered in scales of iron, and suddenly this dude manages to stab you five times like it's nothing. Heck, Laios just stabbed her in the foot with a normal sword. This dragon must be fearing for it's life like crazy.

Obligatory Whoa Hey!

An important image.

No you dummy. This is standard dungeon procedure. There's a reason healers like Holm and Falin wear those silly robes. So that they get priority resurrections.

Hold up a sec. My drama senses are tingling.

I am genuinely curious what this insult was in the original Japenese, if only because I can't see that coming from either of them.

You know, when I first read Dungeon Meshi, I kinda glossed over the secondary cast a lot. Hard not to when you have my attention span, and like two dozen characters. I didn't even notice the Asebi stuff.

I know people dunk on Toshiro a lot, but I really have to question his relationship with his retainers if a simple thank you and sorry elicits this sort of reaction. Honestly, I mostly get the impression that his dad isn't great, and Maizuru is too loyal to do anything about it.

I also have to wonder why he left Asebi behind. Did he just not want to bother? Or is he rethinking his whole relationship with his retainers, and is offhandedly giving her her freedom?

Like brother like sister.

Image limit reached! I'll be back in a bit. Need to get some meshi!

[demispark]

Dunmeshi Ep. 17. I have feelings. I don't have the patience to be funny or upbeat.

Spoilers ahead.

Too much.

This episode was too. much.

Shuro, his attendants, Kabru, his party, Chimera Falin. It's all too much. I can't deal with it all in one episode. I'm so fucking angry. I don't remember the last time I felt so angry and hateful.

Everything is too complex, it's great writing but I hate them. I hate all of them so much.

There is nothing good about Shuro. He is weak, cowardly, selfish, always acting so high-and-mighty.

So neurotypical. I hate him even more for forcing me to call that a bad thing instead of a neutral trait.

I hate their attitude. I hate it. They're not even entirely wrong but that doesn't matter when I hate it so much.

I'm struggling to even put it into words why I'm so angry. It's biased, definitely. It's naive, and clearly refusing to acknowledge the way this world works and any wrongs the Touden party may be guilty of.

I'm glad Shuro & Co. seem to be leaving, and they're never coming back. Stay gone. Die, preferably.

I wish Kabru and his band of merry bastards would piss off too. I'm so sick of him. Even when he's right he's so fucking wrong.

I had other things I wanted to say about this episode but they were washed away when my vision went red.

Black magic might be wrong, I can accept that. What I can never accept is everyone's behavior shifting because of it. Shuro's so immediately willing to sell out Marcille and his oh-so-precious Falin even though he only stands to lose by not letting Marcille use ordinary revival spells on his party and ensuring the death of the woman he supposedly loves.

Laios beat the shit out of him and Shuro admitted he was envious of Laios, and I couldn't even enjoy that resolution.

I should stop now. I could keep going but I'll just be repeating myself out of blind fury and spite. I'm gonna go cool off now.

Edit:

I didn't quite finish the episode. I have a few clearer thoughts about the ending.

I need a warm home-cooked meal from Laios, with his warm friendly smile as he passes me his latest monster cuisine.

I wanna brain Kabru with a fucking rock.

Laios is a better man than I. I'd have destroyed that fucking bell in front of Shuro.

[paintedhyenadogs]

I made a post about relating to Laios being super blindsided that Shuro didn't like him. But like, because I was mostly going off because I was hella Laios Kinning™, I never really talked much bout Shuro.

I like Shuro, not as much as many other characters but I enjoy him. So I never really hated him or thought he was in the wrong when he disliked Laios the way he did. Laios didn't mean to throw microagressions at Shuro, but that doesn't mean he never did it. He has every right to not really like his company.

It's weird for me to see people not like him bc he dislikes/disliked Laios, to each their own obv but it just doesn't sit with me well. Im a shy person as well as a person raised in a culture where, you're taught it's better to put up with someone vs tell them that you don't like them directly, so I also understand why Shuro didn't outright state it the first time round, even if it was something that I was frustrated with too. Neither are perfect people

[dandyleyen]

Watching Dungeon Meshi

Episode 17

-

Now that I’ve had a moment to cool off (episode just finished), I can calm down and say that I don’t hate Shuro but that I still do greatly dislike him. He’s a dick.

Maybe he gets better later on if we see him again, but Jesus Christ. Sorry, as someone who is autistic and has had an incredibly difficult time with social cues it’s just rough. I’ve been in Laios’ place in this situation and it hurts.

As a follow up, I think it’s wild that he seems to love Falin so much to the point of proposing while having this much contempt for her brother. Falin clearly adores her brother. Also, Falin and Laios are honestly incredibly similar. They’re clearly their own separate people, but they are quite similar still. ALSO. He proposed out of nowhere, according to what they said in the ep,,,, which means that his communication skills are clearly not the best ? So he really has no business beig mad at Laios for not picking up on little communication things when he doesn’t clearly state how he feels.

Separate point but Kabru is such a little weirdo ? Love him. I can finally see why so many people were upset with his character and angry with him for what he did to Falin. I was momentarily upset but also he was 100% in the right for that, especially given that she had wiped out most of the group. He also seems to just really hate monsters in general

[dappersautismcreature]

finally watched The dungeon meshi episode

and... crazy thought,, but i dont think people hate shuro because of racism. lets see. i dont think, narratively, we're supposed to like him right now. and to be honest he did say some things that were awful.

of course, taking it too far, including racist stereotypes like asian men being unemotional or whatever is unacceptable but he was mean, people are allowed to not like someone who was mean.

a lot of the things people bring up in his defense seem to be from the manga, i have not read the manga, and thus i dont know these things yet. maybe eventually, when we get to those parts, ill like him more. but for now, he said some things that have been said to me by an asshole ex friend, and i know a lot of other autistic people who have had similar experiences. i dont think i dislike him because of his race, i dont like what he said, and i dont like how possesive he is over falin despite laios being her literal fuckin brother. and shuro not even telling falin he liked her so why have this claim over her ToT. so i dont like him right now, his actions. that is ok, in my opinion, poc characters are allowed to be assholes.

again, if he redeems himself id love to see it, its not like he tortured an mc or is a villain, he's simply a stressor on the mcs and thats cool.

[kisant]

Though considering Kabru's backstory, i don't blame him for wanting to destroy dungeons. As for his initial animosity against the main party, they did steal food from his which seems to be against the rules of their society.

2)  Speaking of people reporting on the main party, what did you think about Shuro reporting on our heroes reviving Falin with Dark Magic? I'll be honest, i can understand why he was upset, he only saw the revived Falin in her Chimera for attacking his retainers.

Right now, my opinion of Kabru is very different from the one I had when I was starting the manga and Kabru’s group was simply a side-character adventurer group that always got their asses handed to them by the dungeon’s threats. 

The initial conflict between Kabru and Laius’ party was based on misunderstandings, as Laius’ party found them wiped out and helped them by stopping the dungeon’s threats from hindering their resurrection (by becoming zombies in the third floor and sinking into the water in the fourth), effectively saving their lives. They just created misunderstandings by defeating and eating the coin bugs (apparently taking their treasure) and then taking some of the grain that had fallen in the water (which would probably have spoiled anyway)

Not to mention, Kabru’s initial eagerness to report Laius’ group wasn’t based on their perceived crimes, but on his own personal dislike of Laius and Farlyn as individuals. He wanted them to secretly be criminals because he had already passed judgement on their characters based on passing observations (not on actually talking or bothering to get to know them) and was elated that he had an opportunity to harm them and tarnish their reputations. It made him look like a conniving, jealous scrub that wanted to rise in the ranks by unjustly dragging down the groups that were above his own in the dungeon-delving hierarchy. 

He’s had a lot of character development since then, and I find his motivations and actions far more reasonable now. Him and the canaries have also been proven right about the dangers of the dungeons, and his struggle to be taken seriously by the canaries is relatable. 

Regarding the topic of Shuro, the thing that rubs me the wrong way about him is his disregard for his old party members. Namari called it quits because she saw Farlyn’s rescue as a reckless suicide mission. Shuro, on the other hand, wanted to rescue Farlyn more than anything, but ditched the group because he thought them incapable of completing the mission, choosing instead to waste days by calling his retainers and waiting for them to get ready and arrive. Shuro is also quite rich, and could have easily solved the supply problem that initially made Farlyn’s rescue difficult. All while taking into account that each second wasted increased the risk that Farlyn would be digested and impossible to revive by time they found and slayed the Red Dragon. 

His dislike of Laius as a person also paints him in a pretty bad light. Like, okay, you like Farlyn because of her unconventional personality but friendly personality, but hate Laius for the same reasons + his unability to pick on social cues? How come? His love of Farlyn and hatred of Laius is strange, considering that they have similar personalities. 

Besides, I didn’t find Laius’ attempts to befriend Shuro annoying at all. The guy was interested in learning about Shuro, his past and the differences between their cultures, and wanted to spend his free time going out to taverns to have dinner and drinks with the group as friends (he also often went out to drink with Namari and the other party members, so it’s not like he was constantly pestering Shuro and Shuro alone), so Shuro comes out looking like a stick in the mud with a superiority complex and an unwarranted dislike of his would-be-fiancée’s beloved older brother, who had done nothing to actually warrant it except not picking on the (very mild) cues that Shuro disliked him, didn’t want to spend time with him or talk to him, and only wanted to go out with Farlyn because he was romantically interested in her.  

However, his decision to inform the city about Farlyn’s condition and the circumstances that led to is actually a good one, because the city needed to know about the Mad Sorcerer and his resources/intentions. He also aired his grievances towards Laius, which cleared the air between the two of them, trusted in the group to solve the issue and save Farlyn/stop the mad sorcerer, and gave them a way out if the authorities caught up to them, up to offering them asylum in his country. 

So, in my opinion, both Kabru and Shuro started out as unsympathetic characters, but they have developed into better people who have grown out of their worst traits and are now trying to be proactive and helpful to others. That’s some good character growth and I like them far more than I used to.