#will someone call the child protection agency on Bruce Wayne

[out-of-context-batfam]

Detective Comics (2016) #1032

[inappropriatefangirlneeds]

Gotham s5ep8 “Nothing's Shocking” Personal Review

“Put a bow on it..”    Warning spoilers below

Hello, old neglected characters, hello detective work and investigations, hello notion that doing bad stuff should have consequences. This sounds like an episode that I should really like but then it turned out to be EHHHHH .. why you gotta do me dirty like this?  BARBARA KEAN & JIM GORDON Two guys are murdered at the Sirens and instead of doing the usual thing Barbara Kean is so kind as to tell the cops. But that´s about it. “Harvey, you're confusing me with someone who cares. I called you as a courtesy.”   Jim Gordon has the audacity and idiocy to keep being an absolute asshole to Barbara. He thinks he got a part in the child´s life and Barbara´s reluctance about that becomes more and more understandable, not that it wasn´t already. And I say reluctance because we have had surprisingly little clear cut messages of Barbara telling Jim to get lost and that he won´t be a part. It´s usually, as it is now, her pointing out how he presses for this. Would Barbara want a Jim that cares for and about the child, but preferable one that recognizes her as more than a horriblepersonTM. She tried to talk about the pregnancy with Jim but he didn´t give her a chance to not make it public like that. I feel like they keep this notion in that she would be open to have Jim in their life, as long as Jim gets his stupid act together?!  At this point I should probably mention the shittyJimLine of this week: “You should think about what kind of person you want to be when it does. It's a chance for you to start anew.”  And context matters. Jim says that right there in the moment where Barbara Kean cared and helped the GCPD. She could have just gotten rid of the bodies and have had none of these troubles. Jim is actually acknowledging zero of this. This is infuriating. Granted there´s a point to be made about her usual method of burying bodies is not the behaviour of a outstanding citizen but who has that in that show. Also give credit where credit is due! And Barbara for sure deserves at least a thank you!  She says the only right thing: “I like who I am.” And I like who she is too, not so much some of the hers that they had her be but right now she really rocks.  And Harvey Bullock´s “That sounds like Barbara”  just highlights this. The show provided us with two Barbara´s right next to each other, one pleading Jim to save her and fulfilling this tired stereotype and one with agency and personality, I guess it´s clear with one is preferable.  Later Barbara returns. Partly because “I thought I'd be a good citizen.” she got some more information to tell them. Knowing Bullock might be a target certainly might have been very useful in another turn of events. So she´s actually being helpful. But all Jim´s probably going to see is her selfish motive. Although I don´t even want to say it´s selfish, her words illustrate really well how precarious her situation actually is. Can you blame her for at least trying to get clarity on that. And she´s even really civil about it, this could have been played very differently. I feel like she´s not there to accuse Jim of this line of behaviour but to figure out if he would do something like that, which isn´t really an unreasonable thought after all. And it kind of feeds my suspicion that they let her act with that underlying notion of it would be nice to have a father but only one that´s decent. But I guess Jim´s not going to see it that way? But at least I doubt that something like this was something he considered doing. Since Walker and her military unit seem to be out of the picture and they were after all antagonists for Jim he indeed wouldn´t have any clue if this list was just a Walker thing or if current authorities would keep that list up. But, but I do also think if things played out like that Jim wouldn´t hesitate to benefit from the situation. “Listen what you said before, about me being a known criminal. I was on some list your army buddy had. When the government rolls in, am I gonna be arrested?” “Honestly, I don't know.” “But that would work out for you, right? I go to jail. You get the baby.” “I don't want that. Is that a promise? “  HARVEY BULLOCK and JIM GORDON being insufferable pt2  “I felt it. I said something, and they told me to keep my trap shut, just close the case, put a bow on it. After a while, I stopped feeling it. And I went down that path for a long time until I met you.” “What do you want from me, Harvey? Forgiveness? Can't give that to you.”  “I just needed you to know.”  Okay so I used to be much more forgiving with this stuff but this week they just went overboard with the misguided righteousness of Jim Gordon. Not only his act with Barbara but with Bullock too. Don´t get me wrong “benching” Bullock in this case was justified, and this puzzle piece of the past that Bullock revealed was interesting and well made, but right at the moment when they make it look like Harvey needs or should care for absolution from Jim Gordon everything just crashes into a wall. Jim IS right he can´t give forgiveness, not when he himself has so much to ask for forgiveness for, but that´s not how they played this line.  [There really isn´t anything to add about the absurdities of judgmental Jim Gordon that @sunlitroom hasn´t already written down]  JANE CARTWRIGHT “That's when Jane Doe was born.”  I liked the investigation stuff about this. First we get Jim being a dickhead. Having recognized how much distress this would put her in he tells her she can only keep her mask if she talks, if not she´s going to forcibly remove it from her face. But at least when he figures that the person does not identify with Cartwright anymore he at least switches to a more sympathetic approach. I liked that much more. “Me? Nothing happened to me.” “Okay. What happened to Jane?”  It slightly reminds me of KAREN JENNINGS both could have become really interesting cases if they had gotten more time. It was pretty clear from the start that Jane´s face would be fine, because well what else. And I kind of appreciate it that they didn´t have Bullock blurt that out, or try to convince her things are fine cause she got nice skin or something. At least they kept it clear what this character and her issues were about. It seems that the acts of the police guy took a toll on her but she didn´t turn “that bad” until Strange´s experiments. I think it would have been interesting to keep her around (see I still don´t want to hear about the cancellation) and go a bit deeper into who is “at fault” here.  Instead of Bullock just shooting here. Obviously both police and “medic” malpractice seem to basically go hand in hand here.  I didn´t full get the “You made Jane into a killer.  You and your friends. There have to be consequences.” Line? Was this about her killing the police men, or about her testifying against her parent? Or caused Strange to do her anything else, which ultimately was the guys fault too cause they cause her to be a warden of the state and got here into Arkham?  Also the following “You killed three men already.” “When is it enough? When you're dead.” Could make for good meta comparing the REVENGE AND GUILT CIRCLE that surrounds Oswald Cobblepot.  The cases are different enough that this would be interesting  “Ask your friend”  If they had just omitted her remarks in the Sirens scene or something I think this line could have had much more impact. Sure for Jane it was probably important that the police guys knew why they were murdered but if we as a audience had just gotten something more vague and in general more vagueness after I think this spotlight shift on Bullock could have been so much more dramatic.   * HUGO STRANGE “was obsessed with the power to change. The way a chameleon would change its skin. He wanted humans to have that power. He made it so Jane could change her skin her bones, her hair, the color of her eyes. All it takes is a single touch, and her body becomes a mirror. When it's done, she sheds her skin and starts anew. It remembers everyone it touched. It's touched you, Detective.”    I wonder if this skillset was a particular objective of the COURT OF OWLS. I remember them pestering him for results, but not quite which one? Or was this more a personal interest of Hugo Strange, but now it seems he´s following other kinds of things so maybe not unless the current situation forces him as well to focus on doing things that clients pay him for.  After all for an organisation like the Court of Owls that would be a very valuable skill.  BRUCE WAYNE & ALFRED PENNYWORTH   So a woman tells them about a monster and missing people, they contemplate telling Jim Gordon but recognize he´s got all hands full. So they just walk through icky, toxic puddles until someone runs into them scared of someone coming. I want to scream at them why are you still there, get the man out of this place and into safety, he told you the others were dead, that´s what you here for. Why even did he stop running? And indeed he seems to be in danger for a while but luckily at the end he makes it out. Which is nice, if only Jane and Penn could have had the same fate.  So then about this one particular conversation between them: “We should've went to Gordon from the start. We were reckless.” “Ah, that's nonsense. We took decisive action. We saved a man's life. The people in this city have suffered, Master Bruce. They need someone that will protect them.” “I agree. But there are better ways to find absolution. “I, um, I don't follow.” “What happened to Wayne Manor wasn't your fault. I know you've been blaming yourself. You didn't destroy our home, Alfred.” “But I feel like I did. I feel like I wasn't strong enough to fight Tetch or that bastard Valeska. I feel like because of my weakness, you lost your last tie to the past. You lost your home, Master Bruce. I must never be that weak again.” “Part of being a family is that we can be strong for each other.” “And when did you get so smart? I had a good teacher.”  I don´t follow, why would Alfred look for absolution with getting Bruce into another dangerous situation? Wouldn´t he like maybe send Bruce to tell Jim about it and run off to try handle the situation himself or something?  Also holy shit batman, that´s how you get batman. Alfred telling Bruce straight away that the people need someone, aka.Bruce to protect them that´s, that´s a hand full. Especially in this context of Bruce talking about how it might have been better to involve the police. Like he downright says: This was reckless. We should have told the police. But Alfred is like No! I get that the “nonsense” comment is meant to deflect any doubt that they didn´t cause good and that´s not a bad notion but maybe something at least like, an argument about how going to the police and get them to act would have taken longer and the husband would have gotten ripped to shreds by the time they would have been there .. or some reasoning would be easier to stomach than a .. NO! Go turn into batman! Vigilante Justice RuleZ. 

Also Noticeable with Harvey Bullock & Jim Gordon it´s FORGIVENESS and with Bruce & Alfred it ABSOLUTION  there´s got to be some meta in this, it certainly links back to the Bruce/Jim contrasts and parallels …  Just that we have Harvey arguably having done something wrong (or at least not right) looking for forgiveness from someone who has no business giving that. And then there is absolution that can´t be given because it´s not necessary cause Alfred has no business feeling guilty because it wasn´t his fault.  

Sooooooooooo then this last bit. Getting MR. PENN back was a blessing, after word spread I was worried that I wouldn´t like the Mr. SCARFACE stuff but I actually really enjoyed how they set that up but now I hate that they gave and took a second later. Bring him back again you fools!  So Mr. Penn just woke up in the GCPD morgue after being shot and patched himself up. Surely, he can do that again after being shot by Ed? Right? Riight?  I am not happy about Penn´s death 2.0. This was so unnecessary but I should have seen it coming right away. They started the scene with Oswald pointing out Edward´s “paranoia” which Edward promptly counters with saying there IS someone watching them. Which is why he has the alarm bells. It should keep people out. No one else allowed. Nygma is not happy at all that Oswald brought the muscle in and I feel like if the “mute and dumb as a post” line had not hit right in Edward´s superiority complex (like what kind of threat is a dumb person to him .. ) he would have taken measures against this guys presence if not right away then soon. But it seems pretty clear that EDWARD NYGMA just won´t tolerate anyone else on this project. This apart form the construction work seems to be the strongest focus he has. Moreover Mr. Penn is not only just some random intruder. When Penn talks to Oswald about the “treasure” he lowers his voice and his gazes at Edward make clear that he´s still treating this as a secret between Oswald and himself. There is a connection that is a threat to Edward, and I guess if he didn´t decide right away that was the moment that sealed the deal. Like as long as he was just some lunatic Edward was ready to just do his own thing and have Oswald deal with this nuisance (fitting considering Oswald just gave a speech that proclaimed he´d been working on just quite those kinds of issues)    Which in NYGMOBBLEPOT terms makes me wonder how much acting and how much truth was in Edward´s words. Granted even if he chooses to say what he said as a strategy early on then this does not negate it being things he thinks as well, but it might not been that conscious?!  Using people and spitting them out, Oswald deserving this, him being opportunistic, shaky loyalty, selfish and hurting others that´s all things Edward might actually agree with.  And at that point of tangled emotional personal relationship mess I just got to link to @littlehollyleaf because this post says everything about 1.) Ed possibly recognizing something from himself in Penn, with a personality that manifests in parts, 1a.) which he recognizes considering his own issues as a persistent threat despite the “free” revelation, 1b.) hostility due to projected self loathing 2.) Jealousy and preceding incidents of this liking (Butch and him rivaling over Oswald)  3.) With 1 & 2 combined you get a parallel of Penn/Ed caring for Oswald, then being treated not so nicely, then resentment and later Oswald as someone that “fixes” their split 1b.) then would also be the rejection that Ed is a “lunatic” like that  Nevertheless, Oswald talking about being alone, claiming seeing/recognizing Penn for what he was must be worth something culminates in the Nygmobblepottery that his Edward throwing this idea right back at Oswald and claiming that Oswald sees and accepts him for what he is which means their friendship works and they got some common ground [Eh idk, if it would work, would Ed feel threatened that easily .. just saying .. ]  Anyway recognizing and valuing people for what they are?! Did I say I love Oswald, lately cause I do. Is Edward right though? ~~ If Oswald wasn´t loyal at all I feel like a lot of people would be dead by now, isn´t he the one plagued by betrayals. But then again if Jim shared his “BarbaraBad”Goggles then I guess this could be seen as Oswald just keeping them around for selfish reasons, like he would only protect people because he thinks he can use them later, or like as trust investment that pays off later.  ~~ Does Oswald deserve this? Eh, with Penn I´m leaning towards a firm kindaish ~~ Cold Logician? Eh, Edward is more an emotional drama bitch?  EDIT: Yes @vampirebillionare got to the root of this issue: while I think Ed isn’t quite right about him being a “cool logician” that’s the only way he knows how to phrase “I’m not good with feelings and sometimes I’m going to do what I think is best or what I feel compelled to do even if it hurts you, but you understand that about me and you’re still here” ~~ I am 100% convinced Oswald remembered PENN´s name. It was just the Doylist thing that the original Ventriloquists name was Arnold Wesker, and while this is a nice nod, Oswald would have remembered the name, fight me!  ~~  Edward saying “Dummy” is awesome because not only does it sound like he´s insulting Oswald but it also totally reminds of the corrective “IsabellA”  Back to MR. PENN AND SCARFACE  I actually really loved this. Because Mr. Penn getting a puppet that says what he can´t is really relatable. He can just outsource and shift all the blame on Scarface. It was even the puppet that found him! Not the other way round! Wonderful. And as short as it was and even despite them showing us nothing of the transition period, I would vote this as one of the better origin stories. Like it´s got more going on than being “aged” and being “aged again”.  I feel like I understand that someone like Penn could get out of his turtle shell by proxy like that. You still have this “he” wouldn´t ever do that, and a preservation of his character but also enough change to buy that he´s acting differently now. There´s also a great focus on motivation and personal relationship. Maybe it´s due to his profession that he kept track of everything that well and can list all of Oswald´s shortcomings but it just feels like what happened gets accounted for. Like all those other messes where characters pretty much must have had some blind eyes to act like they did, I don´t think that would fly with Penn. Related to the change, just basically dying is a good “trigger” point. I absolutely buy that this would get him to a point where he is like. Look where everything got me so far. Time for something different. Just that he´s aiming for something that he doesn´t really want, something that he isn´t really. He doesn´t want what Oswald has and does but obviously he´s had no tools to demand the recognition that he wanted before and at that point that whole horse has left the barn so it´s understandable that he wouldn´t just go straight back to status quo and some more demands but to a new thing altogether.  Althought it´s not so new entirely, cause there still is this issue of who he is and what he actually wants.  And because isn´t Scarface partly an Oswald substitute?!  First of all the introduction goes straight from “Mr. Cobblepot this is Mr. Scarface.” don´t tell me that´s not a parallel. (In 4x14 I think he consistently calls Don Falcone ~Don~ Falcone, there´s also no reason Scarface had to have a Mr. before his name … )  Then just the “Mr. Scarface is very persuasive.”  I know it´s also a reflex of shifting the blame, if Scarface is good at what he´s doing, Penn just got no other chance but it also used to be one of Oswald´s defining qualities. And then of course it´s Oswald comparing himself to Scarface and pointing out even if he was manipulative he was not as horrible with it than Scarface is. While pointing out they have different goals/methods he´s basically acknowledging that they got something in common for a moment.  It´s just amazing how Scarface on the one hand is an ENABLER that should “free” Penn from the likes of Oswald Cobblepot but at the same time he´s subjecting himself to quite a similar dynamic/relationship because that´s what he actually wants.  Also OSWALD COBBLEPOT in this.  I love how he goes from chiding Nygma for “playing along with his psychosis” right to “The dummy was the threat” aka to actually “believing” the content of said psychosis.  Or like rather understanding why the dummy is there and how it works for Penn. Aka. seeing he in fact doesn´t want murder/gold/beingboss. So of course in between there´s Oswald figuring out something about Mr. Penn. The dummy is indeed the threat, Oswald doesn´t have to care about the “treasure” and “being boss”. Scarface isn´t there to grant Penn this, and this is when Oswald targets the relationship. He recognized that this isn´t what Penn is or wants and he´s ready to treat Scarface as a different entity to undermine their relationship. He understands that Scarface ins some way actually is forcing Penn.  Pointing out that he, knowing Penn would never asked something so severe of him works, saying that he accepted him for who he is and valued him for that and not something that he isn´t works too. And omg him shooting the dummy was such a good moment. Can we just, honour their relationship and start over at “Mr. Cobblepot you freed me, how can I ever thank you”  Because Oswald Cobblepot had a prime chance to be every nasty thing that has just been said about him. Not even that, he could just shoot the man that pointed a pistol at him and not load to much guilt on his shoulders because that´s what you get going around pointing guns at people, so I wouldn´t even call that overly nasty.. Yet he does NOT do that. That´s got to be worth something, give it room to grow.   And moreover Penn says he was ALONE waking up in the gcpd I wonder if Oswald intentionally threw that bit about him being Alone in too, cause Oswald indeed feels alone (just all that “only friend” talk the past episode) and Penn did too , so much he fixed himself another Oswald .. PENN & NYGMOBBLE RELEVANT QUOTES  ** “That's where Mr. Scarface found me.” “And he told me all about you. How you used him. Chewed him up and spat him out. Treated him like a palooka!” “That's a lie!” “Oh, please, Oswald. It's what you do.” “Arnold, Arthur. What do you want?” “I don't want anything. But Mr. Scarface, well he wants your treasure. And to be boss.”  ** “What am I doing? I'm talking to a doll.” “Dummy.” “Seriously?” “ You know what, Oswald? Honestly, you deserve this.” “Nobody asked you.” “You are opportunistic, your loyalty is shaky, at best, and you will hurt anyone, anyone to get what you want.”  ** “I cannot believe that you told him about the sub. And that you're playing along with his psychosis.” “Obviously, he was gonna kill you.  I bought us time.” ** “You accuse me of manipulating you, but what about him? I never asked you to kill anybody.” “That is true.” ** “And yes, I was not a good friend. To you or to anyone. It's why I'm alone. But I saw you for what you are, and I valued that. That must be worth something.” ** “Why did you do that? He wasn't the threat. The dummy was the threat.” Oswald. I accept you for the person that you are.  Just as you accept me for the cold logician that I am. That's why this friendship is great. And as friends, I think we can both agree that that lunatic had to be stopped.” “Perhaps, Edward we really are meant for each other.”  ** “Mr. Cobblepot. You freed me. How can I ever thank you? “ MORE RANDOM NICE LINES * “And as safe as I feel with your jingle bell contraption in place, I went out and procured us some muscle.  You're welcome.”  Teamwork is a two way street, just sometimes you got to ride that one street to recognize that it´s indeed rocky,  * “I've been working on the sonar, which, turns out, is far more complex than I anticipated.” “Well, I am confident you will figure it out.” “Of course I will figure it out.”  I´m glad they recognize that building a whole submarine from scratch just can´t happen like that, not even with Ed,  *  “He?Who?” It sounded like that one meme that I can´t spell, I´m still giggling  * “Penn, show these dewdroppers we're serious.” “palooka” “ventilate that mook” “applesauce” “Now let´s talk turkey turkeys” ~~ Someone needs to write about Mr. Scarface´s dated vocabulary //gotham language//  * “Shut it! Let the smart one talk.” *  “After you get your tiny wooden hands on that treasure”  

* “Then no” The scene between HARVEY BULLOCK and his old partner DIX  and all the guilt but also comapssion involved was incredibly well done and emotional. I just wish they hadn´t gotten rid of the character.