#xvim

[osciemon]

Xvim from mother of learning

it's important to have a time loop code phrase, something that if someone says "I'm in a time loop, you have to believe me!" you tell them the code so on their next loop they say the code and you believe them.

Thing is your codes are weak and easily guessed or circumvented by tricksters and pranksters alike.

It needs to be a multi-factor authentication cipher that you never explain or you'll only get to share each code once or someone comes up to you and says a thing and you wonder if you posted online about it at some point.

I recommend a word and date based equation combo. Like mine for today could be "Snake 3443" because today is 10/24/2023 so 10+24 20+23 = 3443.

Of course, now I've told you that I have to change my equation cipher.

It's wise to add in a third factor by day of the week and add some "you'd only know this if I told you in a time loop scenario" kind of thing.

You may think that is a lot of plates to keep spinning but I want you to keep your eye on the prize and think of the unhinged look on your friends face as they approach you for in their perspective is the twelve billionth time as they say "Snake 3443, Mittens on the 4th floor, Tuesday is Jazz Day and if the current minute of the day is an odd number it's Pineapple and if it's even it's anchovy. I hate you and I wish we weren't friends, no that's not part of the password but do you have any idea how frustrating it is to do this every single fucking day and I promise there is no question you can possibly ask me that will make you believe me any further so can we just get on with this?"

It's worth it. Trust me.

I know.

[cleric-of-ilmater-and-sune]

Priests of the Faerunian Pantheon via "Faiths and Avatars"

Sorry I couldn't tag everyone. There's a 30 tag limit

[laubritter2]

Saw several people discuss Gort's eye color and to me, especially with his Gortane form, they are (dark) emerald.

I believe Gortash's appearance is a hint to Bane's son, Iyachtu Xvim. Hear me out... When you cast speak with dead on Gortash, it says Bane has already taken over his body. Exactly what happened to Xvim. Xvim was also a bit "rebellious" and planned to overthrow his own father... like Gortash's plan when he says he wants to become a god himself. And the way he talks with Durge, he wants them BOTH to become gods, overthrowing their fathers. I like this parallel.

Here is a description of human form Xvim, by the way:

"When appearing in the Realms, Iyachtu Xvim wrapped his scaled shape in illusions that let everyone see him as a middle-aged human male of average height and bright eyes the color of emeralds. His hair, skin, and features were dark and attractive, appropriate for the god's vanity."

HELLO???

Another small thing:

"Iyachtu Xvim's other manifestation was a 70��feet (21 meters)-long adder as thick as a horse-pulled wagon."

When you look at his concept art he got a tattoo that resembles... an adder??? Those are SNAKES!! NOT dragons.

Iyachtu Xvim's race is half-demon, or cambion... you know, like the ones on his SHOES.

Also Gortash has CLAWS. This s not a Church of Bane thing, it's only a black gauntlet... interesting choice. Xvim had claws.

Now I'm not saying he IS Iyachtu, but it's also interesting that he does NOT look like his parents... I very much like to see Gortash as a "regular" human but I can't help but to think it was their idea at one point or another. And what if he never got hold of his powers? How does this work exactly? What if he got beaten and locked away to suppress his "true form"?

Just something to muse about.

[mage-witha-glock]

Day #6: Mentor

I tried to draw Xvim but couldn't so get one of his signature marbles instead

[readsquirrel]

One of the things I most appreciate about Mother of Learning is that it really wrestles with the question of what the loopers owe to the people around them. It’s not just a matter of saying a thank you they won’t remember, or preventing some mild annoyance from happening once out of the loop. It’s a much more profound moral obligation.

The people may not remember having helped, but their repeated kindness and sacrifices over time were so much of what made Zorian and Zach able to grow. Each time Kael helped, he did so knowing that the knowledge he passed forward was never guaranteed to be passed back to him. When Taiven helped train Zorian, she was helping him run that much farther ahead of her. When Xvim and Alanic learned about the time loop and started investigating, they had no guarantees that their real selves would be saved from death, let alone benefited.

Usually in a time loop story, the loopers are expected to grow and become better people, but the side characters are mostly just a tool for that growth. Yes, the MC may form an emotional bond with them, but it’s largely viewed as a benefit to the MC’s emotional arc. So, to have that element of paying it back and paying it forward be integral to the solution was refreshing and a meaningful observation in this day and age.

[ersetu-gazette]

As much as I love how Mother of Learning's progression of power, I'm curious to what the story would be like if Zorian's mana reserves never increased between loops. Zorian in the beginning has the main flaw in his magic of having low mana reserves. If he wasn't allowed to grow that (due to some glitch with his body not aging or how his broken marker works or something) then a lot of the ways he looks at the world and overcomes obstacles would be super different. The best he could probably ever do is master his shaping skills to even above Xvim's capabilities, improve his tactical use of magic and ways to conserve as much as possible, as well as focusing on artifice. And I realized as I went down this track the biggest impact it would have on him would be making him less alienated from the rest of the world. Because as much as his technique/knowledge and life experience separated him from his peers, his magical power probably also was a huge factor. He would have a vulnerability he shares with his friends and might need them for things that require higher mana requirements. After he escapes from the time loop he would have growth to look forward to. I don't know if Zorian could escape or if the he and Zach could succeed in stopping the invasion without them dying, but I think the concept is neat.

[somerunner]

Hm. I'm wondering now, having just read the end-word to the original Conference Call, if Xvim would actually be a good choice of Node user for my fic idea. I don't think Xvim would be so attached to his own life that he would sabotage Cyoria's chances against the invasion. Nor any of the main mentors. Maybe Silverlake? Yeah.

For that matter, Armsmaster is a terrible idea. Too close to Kid Win, and if I go with post-Gold Morning or something then I'd have to do a lot of consulting on Ward canon. ...he'd still be good, actually.

Hmmmm. Ok. My working title was "No Countries for Old Men" but given that Armsmaster isn't old, and Silverlake isn't a man, it's not all that great. Oh, and I haven't even seen the movie "No Country for Old Men." So maybe I should go for "distant/rejected mentor" archetypes, which would still fit most of the others.

Plus, although I really think Akura Justice was funny and would be fun to write, this is a much more fitting archetype for Northstrider. Double plus, this would really intrigue him regarding his Presence project. So he'd probably be the Node user from Cradle.

So, the new Node users I'm thinking of: Silverlake, Armsmaster, Northstrider, and Tenisent Winterscar.

Maybe I'd call it "No More Mentors" or something. Idk. Not like I'll ever get around to writing this thing.

[azdoine]

Who Cares If It's Worth The Candle?

Three days ago I wrote an article on some recent rational stories. I had not read any fiction of this kind since the days of Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, and, since I con­stantly heard animated discussions of the merits of the rational writers, I was curious to see what they were like today. The specimens I tried I found disappointing, and I made some rather derogatory remarks in connec­tion with my impressions of the genre in general. To my surprise, this brought me letters of protest in a volume and of a passionate earnestness which had hardly been elicited even by my occasional criticisms of Dath Ilan. Of the thirty-nine letters that have reached me, only seven approve my strictures. The writers of almost all the others seem deeply offended and shocked, and they all say almost exactly the same thing: that I had simply not read the right novels and that I would surely have a different opinion if I would only try this or that author recommended by the correspondent. In many of these letters there was a note of asperity, and one lady went so far as to declare that she would never read my articles again unless I were prepared to reconsider my position. In the meantime, furthermore, a number of other writers have published articles defending the rational story: Alexander Wales, Scott Alexander, Eneasz Brodski and Daystar Eld have all had something to say on the subject—nor has the um­brageous Eliezer Yudkowsky failed to raise his voice.

Overwhelmed by so much insistence, I at last wrote my correspondents that I would try to correct any in­justice by undertaking to read some of the authors that had received the most recommendations and taking the whole matter up again. The writer that my correspondents were most nearly unanimous in putting at the top was Mister Domagoj Kurmaić, who was pressed upon me by eighteen people, and the book of his that eight of them were sure I could not fail to enjoy was a time loop caper called Mother of Learning. Well, I set out to read Mother of Learning in the hope of tasting some novel excitement, and I declare that it seems to me one of the dullest books I have ever en­countered in any field. The first part of it is all about magic as it is practiced in university and contains a lot of information of the kind that you might expect to find in an encyclopedia article on tabletop role-playing-games. I skipped a good deal of this, and found myself skipping, also, a large section of the conversations between conventional scholastic characters: “Oh, here’s Xvim with the coursework. People may say what they like about coursework, but it does go on all through the quarter and make a backdrop,” etc. There was also a dreadful stock student of the undiagnosed autistic kind, with the embarrassing name of Zorian Kazinski, and, although he was the focal character of the novel, being Mister Domagoj Kurmaić’s version of the necessary Phil Connors prisoner, I had to skip a good deal of him too. In the meantime, I was losing the story, which had not got a firm grip on my attention, but I went back and picked it up and steadfastly pushed through to the end, and there I discovered that the whole point was that phenomenal arcane power can’t fix a broken family or mend estranged relationships. Not a bad idea for a character piece, and O. Henry would have known how to dramatize it in an entertaining tale of five thousand words, but Mister Kurmaić had not hesitated to pad it out to a book of seven hundred thousand, contriving one of those hackneyed cock-and-bull stories where the protagonist’s disability is a secret power, and larding the whole thing with details of training arcs, bits of quaint lore from OSR monster manuals, and the awful whimsical patter of worldbuilding.

I had often heard people say that Domagoj Kurmaić wrote well, and I felt that my correspondents had been playing him as their literary ace. But, really, he does not write very well: it is simply that he is more con­sciously literary than most of the other rational-story writers and that he thus attracts attention in a field which is mostly on a sub-literary level. In any serious department of fiction, his writing would not appear to have any distinction at all. Yet, commonplace in this re­spect though he is, he gives an impression of brilliant talent if we put him beside Mister Wertifloke, whose The Waves Arisen was also suggested by several corre­spondents. Mister Yudkowsky has put himself on record as be­lieving that Mister Wertifloke, as well as Mister Walker and Mister Solguard, writes his novels in "excellent prose," and this throws for me a good deal of light on Mr. Yudkowsky’s opinions as a critic. I hadn't quite realized before, though I had noted his own rather messy style, to what degree he was insensitive to writing. I do not see how it is possible for anyone with a feeling for words to describe the unap­petizing sawdust which Mister Wertifloke has poured into his pages as "excellent prose" or as prose at all except in the sense that distinguishes prose from verse. And here again the book is mostly padding. There is the notion that unregulated use of power would lead to climate disaster and the collapse of modern civilization, but this is embedded in the dialogue and doings of a lot of self-replicating warrior-magicians who are even more tedious than those of Mother of Learning.

The enthusiastic reader of rational stories will indig­nantly object at this point that I am reading for the wrong things: that I ought not to be expecting good writing, characterization, human interest or even atmos­phere. He is right, of course, though I was not fully aware of it till I attempted Project Lawful, con­sidered by connoisseurs one of the best books of two of the masters of this school. This tale I found completely unreadable. The story and the writing both showed a surface so wooden and dead that I could not keep my mind on the page. How can you care about liberating those damned who have never really been put in torment, because the writer hasn't any ability of even the most ordinary kind to persuade you to see them or feel them? How can you probe the the depths of the characters who surround the protagonist, because they are all simply fodder for dramatic irony? It was then that I understood that a true connoisseur of this fiction must be able to suspend the demands of his imagination and literary taste and take the thing as an intellectual widget. But how you arrive at that state of mind is what I do not understand.

In the light of this revelation, I feel that it is probably irrelevant to mention that I enjoyed The Flower That Bloomed Nowhere, by Lurina, more than the novels of any of these luminaries. There is a tinge of black magic that gives it a little of the interest of a horror story, and the author has a virtuosity at playing with alternative hypotheses that makes this trick of rational fiction more amusing than it usually is. I want, however, to take up certain points made by some of the above-mentioned articles. Mr. Munchkin informs the non-expert that the rational novel is a kind of game in which the reader of a given story, in order to play properly his hand, should bring his full attention to the stage. Common sense, it seems, is insufficient: the reader must be versed with Bayesian statistics, game theory, artificial intelligence, theory of mind, and modal realism. This may be true, but I shall never qualify. I would rather read golden age detective fiction, which at least does not involve the consumption of hundreds of ill-written blog posts.

An argument leveled by my interlocutors is that contemporary genre fiction has become so vapid, so abstracted or mass-market, that the public have had to take to the rational story as the only department of fiction where verisimilitude survives. This seems to me to involve two fallacies. On the one hand, it is surely not true that “the common authors of today” - to quote Ms. Neocalico - “have often,” in contrast to the authors of the past, “little or no story to tell,” that “they have allowed themselves to be persuaded that continuity is no consideration.” It is true, of course, that urban fantasy and comics - which, I suppose, must be accounted the emptiest going - have their various modern ways of boring and playing tricks on the reader. But how about the dreadful fanon and reinterpretations that one has to get over in HPMOR? The soft-serve science in Worm? The Deus Ex Machina of Unsong, in which the villain surrenders his cause? Is there anything in first-rate popular fiction quite so gratuitous as these longueurs? Even Rowling and Gaiman do certainly have stories to tell, and they have organized their works with an intensity which has been relatively rare in genre fiction and which, to my mind, more than makes up for the occasional arbitrariness of their narratives.

On the other hand, it seems to me—for reasons sug­gested above—a fantastic misrepresentation to say that the average rational story is an example of good story-telling. The gift for telling stories is uncommon, like other artistic gifts, and the only one of this group of writers—the writers my correspondents have praised—who seems to me to possess it to any degree is Mr. Alexander Wales. Worth the Candle is the only one of these books that I have read all of and read with enjoyment. But Wales, though in the community he’s lauded as a master, does not really belong to this school of rationalist fiction. What he writes is a work of portal fantasy which has less in common with Yudkowsky than with Stephen Donaldson and Michael Ende - the highbrow isekai which has substituted the blue text of numbers going up for the invisible backdrop of psychodrama. It is not simply a question here of a puzzle which has been put together but of an experience conveyed to the reader, the wonder and terror of an otherworld that is continually revealed in all its varied and unlikely forms. To write such a novel successfully you must be able to invent character and incident and to generate atmosphere, and all this Mr. Wales can do. It was only when I got to the end that I felt my old rational-story depression descending upon me again - because here again, as is so often the case, the explanation of the ontological mystery, when it comes, isn’t interesting enough. It fails to justify the excitement produced by the elaborate buildup of picturesque and sinister happenings, and one cannot help feeling cheated.

My experience with this second batch of novels has, therefore, been even more disillusioning than my expe­rience with the first, and my final conclusion is that the reading of rational stories is simply a kind of vice that, for silliness and minor harmfulness, ranks somewhere be­tween LitRPG and xianxia. This conclusion seems borne out by the violence of the letters I have been receiving. Rational-story readers feel guilty, they are habitually on the defensive, and all their talk about "well-written" fanfics is simply an excuse for their vice, like the reasons that the alcoholic can always pro­duce for a drink. One of the letters I have had shows the addict in his frankest and most shameless phase. This lady begins by pretending, like the others, to guide me in my choice, but she breaks down and tells the whole dreadful truth. Though she has read, she says, hundreds of rational stories, "it is surprising," she finally con­fesses, "how few I would recommend to another. However, a poor rational story is better than none at all. Try again. With a little better luck, you'll find one you admire and enjoy. Then you, too, may be a rationalist."

This letter has made my blood run cold: so the opium smoker tells the novice not to mind if the first pipe makes him sick; and I fall back for reassurance on the valiant little band of my readers who sympathize with my views on the subject. One of these tells me that I have underestimated both the badness of rational stories themselves and the lax mental habits of those who en­joy them. The worst of it is, he says, that the true addict, half the time, never even learns how to be less wrong. The addict reads not to find anything out but merely to get the mild stimulation of a few shows of wits and of the suspense itself of waiting until the protagonist takes over the world. That this strategy of conquest is nothing at all and does not really explain how to systematically win does not matter to such a reader. He has learned from his long indulgence how to connive with the author in the swindle: he does not pay any real attention when the disappointment occurs, he does not think back and check the chain of reasoning, he simply closes the tab and starts another.

To rational-story addicts, then, I say: Please do not write me any more letters telling me that I have not read the right books. And to the seven correspondents who are with me and who in some cases have thanked me for helping them to liberate themselves from a habit which they recognized as wasteful of time and degrading to the intellect but into which they had been bullied by convention and the portentously performed hijacking of Greg Egan and Charles Stross—to these staunch and pure spirits I say: Friends, we represent a minority, but Literature is on our side. With so many fine web novels to be read, so much to be studied and known, there is no need to bore ourselves with this rubbish. And with the URL shortage pressing on all publication and many first-rate writers forced out of the top 100 on Royal Road, we shall do well to discourage the squandering of this wordcount that might be put to better use.

[daemon-in-my-head]

OK, once again maybe a reach, but.

A Gortash who sees Bane as some kind of father figure.

Cuz he was presumably still a young adult when he left the hells. And all his parental figures had been horrible, but this one he chose himself. + Bane is canonically a dad (not a good one, but dead three just can not be trusted with children).

He's not as bad as Durge, whose father is very much a literal god and Durge is utterly devoted to them, but he views Bane as this guy to geniunly look up to. Worshipping isn't rly his thing, but he'll do it if he must, cuz in a twisted way he does want Bane around and he wants his favour, because ofc anything other than Chosen or High Inquisitor is unacceptable but also simply because its affection(????) and attention he hasn't gotten before.

(Believe it or not, this was written before the Xvim thing, but now it makes even more sense. Ah, the headcannons are growing worse.)

Bonus, in my honour run I ofc made the guardian a certain Tyrant cuz I live for the morbidity of it but I couldn't find his hair. So I gave him slicked-back hair and an undercut. HOWS HE SO CUNTY (you can't stop me from playing dress up with my favourite tyrant, watch me commit crimes against humanity as the run proceeds.)

[atrueneutral]

These asks have been so damn good! If you’re still doing them do you think you could maybe do “that’s impossible” and/or “you’re wrong” with Raphael. (Sending this in a second time just to clarify) I like how you you’ve been writing him a little on the softer side for these asks lol

“You’re wrong - it was the Champions of Valor who saved Baldur’s Gate by defeating the wizard Iyachtu Xvim.”

“I’m never wrong,” Raphael replied coolly, his back to her as he penned letters at the nearby vanity.

“Ha!” Tav shouted from the restoration bath. She was content to soak now that she was mostly relieved of the soreness and wounds inflicted by her recent adventure. “It’s been four months and I could count on an entire hand how many times you’ve been wrong - this time being one of them.”

“I could add my hands to that as well,” Haarlep remarked slyly from the opposite end of the pool.

Raphael froze, and after a few seconds, he turned - scowling. While his expression was for both residents of the bath, his words were only for one.

“You stay out of this,” he said to Haarlep.

“Yes, Haarlep, mind your own business,” Tav added with a glare.

The incubus had taken to invading her baths whenever possible, despite her often tired protests, and to tease and spite her on this particular night, their foot sensually grazed her leg for a tiresome third time. Tav’s scowl matched Raphael’s as she moved to sit on a step that was out of their current reach.

Raphael’s orange and yellow eyes irately watched her.

“I’m not wrong on this occasion, and you would be filling up your hand with lie upon lie,” he stated.

“To that I, again, say ‘ha’!” Tav’s smile was impish as she raised a finger. “It was the Champions of Valor; I have the book at home to prove it.”

Another raised.

“Lizardfolk hold their breath underwater for far longer than ten minutes, you ass. I learned that the hard way…”

And another.

“The specific Deck of Many Things you received tonight has twenty-one cards, not twenty-two like you said an hour ago.”

And another.

“Rhododendron’s are not my favorite flower.”

And then the fifth and final finger.

“Cheesomancy is a completely valid form of combat that I am more than happy to demonstrate on Haarlep.”

Raphael’s face was full of disdain, and he soon turned back around to return to his letter writing.

“What is your favorite flower?” he asked after a minute.

“Forget-me-nots,” she said.

“Ugh, how disgustingly sweet,” Haarlep bemoaned. They then began to rub their hands together. “My list is far more illuminating when it comes to your errors, Master…”

Haarlep did not get past the first finger before they were forcibly banished from the boudoir.

---

Thanks for the prompt! 🙏

[mage-witha-glock]

Zach: Outgoing and friendly, only has one friend

Taiven: Outgoing and friendly, only has one friend

Zorian: Antisocial and moody, has like seven friends

[theannoyingurge]

'The members of the lowest rank in the Church of Xvim were referred to as Vermin...' - Faiths & Avatars

Bane must have loved Jergal's sentimental little send off. "Begone, equivalent of your bastard kid's lowest servant"

I wonder if that's how it feels babysitting Bhaal's latest BS (bullshit or Bhaalspawn both work here). Withers just gets cattier the harder you look at him.

[daemon-in-my-head]

Just wanna add some more lore tidbits cuz tinfoil hat fun:

"At some point, Xvim developed the ability to implant a fragment of his soul into nearly any creature in order to transform it into a Beast of Xvim." - Gortash can't tear pieces of his soul, but he can (and did) implant people with a tadpole, making those victims of his entirely loyal and subservient to him. Bonus being that they can also be transformed into Mindflayers like that, not quite beasts but close enough.

"Xvim was trapped in the ancient imprisonment circle, stewing in his hate and frustration over not getting a chance to slay Bane with his own claws." - You mean similar to how Gortash was trapped and imprisoned in the House of Hope while hate and thoughts about revenge on Raphael and his own parents festered within him?

One of Xvims artefacts is the Sceptre of the Tyrant's Eye. It's not quite a cane but somewhat similar.

Xvim is presumably still alive, and Elminster, as well as other Chosen of Mystra and his own chosen, know about it. He sometimes manifests as a whisper in their dreams and nightmares.

Saw several people discuss Gort's eye color and to me, especially with his Gortane form, they are (dark) emerald.

I believe Gortash's appearance is a hint to Bane's son, Iyachtu Xvim. Hear me out... When you cast speak with dead on Gortash, it says Bane has already taken over his body. Exactly what happened to Xvim. Xvim was also a bit "rebellious" and planned to overthrow his own father... like Gortash's plan when he says he wants to become a god himself. And the way he talks with Durge, he wants them BOTH to become gods, overthrowing their fathers. I like this parallel.

Here is a description of human form Xvim, by the way:

"When appearing in the Realms, Iyachtu Xvim wrapped his scaled shape in illusions that let everyone see him as a middle-aged human male of average height and bright eyes the color of emeralds. His hair, skin, and features were dark and attractive, appropriate for the god's vanity."

HELLO???

Another small thing:

"Iyachtu Xvim's other manifestation was a 70 feet (21 meters)-long adder as thick as a horse-pulled wagon."

When you look at his concept art he got a tattoo that resembles... an adder??? Those are SNAKES!! NOT dragons.

Iyachtu Xvim's race is half-demon, or cambion... you know, like the ones on his SHOES.

Also Gortash has CLAWS. This s not a Church of Bane thing, it's only a black gauntlet... interesting choice. Xvim had claws.

Now I'm not saying he IS Iyachtu, but it's also interesting that he does NOT look like his parents... I very much like to see Gortash as a "regular" human but I can't help but to think it was their idea at one point or another. And what if he never got hold of his powers? How does this work exactly? What if he got beaten and locked away to suppress his "true form"?

Just something to muse about.

[veliatra]

Also a little tidbit about Gortash being a Banite...:

((and dwelling into a scolding of Bane? + Very very sporatic tid bits of information. Tried to organise part a bit better with titles.))

Long text post, no tl;dr

You die like me(n)

First impressions; false information;

There's a good reason why Gortash seeks to have a temple to Bane made, with all the massacres a hundred or so years before wiping out most Banites or turned to Cyrics; Ixachtu Xvim or underground. So at this point whatever he has organised with the clergy is well.. most of it.

He doesn't strike me as that typical worshipper; not a wizard, not a cleric. I'd say he does follow the hierarchy and well; with the way he is followed around by other Banites, him being 'the chosen' would mean he's the current version of The High Imperceptor. Everyone would bow to him, kiss his feet, kneel etc. He'd have the remaining to be on his call.

Expeecctt that whole thing? BULLSHITE.

The temple to Bane was converted back to Bane worship a few decades later in the mid 14th century; and Bg 3 is set in the late of 15th.

After the Time of Troubles when Bane was ressurected he re-established his worship

So by then things are settled and Gortash's SIMPLY spreading it. Albeit/presumably without as much backing as in it's golden days. Riding on the new wave of 'cool to worship gods' (I don't presume to know trends. I guessed he is an emo hunk who'd love some edgy god who died and came back. Isn't it like just the choice you'd have made at 11 in an IKEA with a floating black stone on a cool stand?)

Scolding of Bane

Also Bane, tf you keep causing calamities. Chill dude. You died when you walked among your followers, come now, you thought now that you're vulnerable it would be best you fought other gods? Yeah, pretty characteristic if YOU HAD NO BRAINCELLS. I mean yes, you had the chance to take matters into your own hands and not let silly mortals fail and stumble. FiNe.

But I digress;

Gortash as a Banite;

he's the choosen, but is he the High Imperceptor? Well, no? Yes? No. He's far too busy with the Absolute to also tend to the Banites. He's definitely high ranking, maybe even above the Imperceptor(?), BUT not with the same responsibilities, he doesn't look like he does more than benefit from the clergy. He borrows manpower, sure; and maybe he aims to be eventually even more hence he wants to build a temple to Bane.

The hierchy has strict rules on how to treat those above you, he definitely likes that when it's directed at him, not him giving. Which begs the question: he had to be at the bottom of that ladder at some point. He had to do kneeling, bowing maaaaybe even a boot kiss or two.

That said; he maybe a worshipper, and a chosen, but is he a proper part of the church? Well yes, but do you consider a christian the same way part of the church as a priest at a temple?

He's saint level perhaps in those terms.

There was a trend among Bane worshippers: face tattoos. Sadly we didn't get that with him. Would have been cool, but alas, handsome mid 30's younger man is our to marvel at.

Bane comes to him in dreams to direct him and Durge; he commissions a painting of him and a bust according to how he came before him.

That said it would have been funny if someone painted/sculpted Bane during The time of troubles.

Gorty really was thinking of rebuilding the Black altar wasn't he?

Please feel free to correct me on lore. I would love to be wrong.

[asteriasfallingstarsandtears]

While I don't know if it's actually meant to be by the devs, but the parallels to Bane's son with Gortash did get me thinking a little in my little conspiracy side of my brain.

Iyachtu Xvim was used to resurrect Bane, a contingency plan that Bane needed after he was slain by Torm. Who's to say he didn't see the benefit of having another one? Bhaal was being a bit uppity again making Durge and coming back to life in 1482, so he either could have imbued Gortash with a bit of his power like Mystra did with Volo (jfc Volo) or he could be an actual child of Bane.

His parents didn't want him, Sally hated him in particular it seemed, called him a monster before they sold him.

Iyachtu is said to have grudgingly served his father and there was some sort of back and forth between their followers, so maybe making an actual godly child was considered competition, but a mortal one who he could dangle power over like a carrot while keeping the stick ready might be more his style.

Anyway, I'm not as deep in lore as others, I can only go by what I can see on the wikis and what my brain likes. None of this is actually in the game, just my brain liking things and running with it.

Fic is my playground and there are no rules.

[archduchessgortash]

Banite Ranks

For my fics, I'm reworking Banite lore, the church ranks in particular.

In the established lore, after Bane was killed in his mortal form, Cyric stole most of his worshipers and wiped out nearly all of the rest (Circa 1361 DR). During this time, the High Imperceptor of the Church of Bane was on the verge of converting to open worship of Cyric. There had already been a schism, and the church was kind of a mess. An offshoot group began worshipping Iyachtu Xvim, Bane's son, and Bane would eventually use him for his own resurrection. Upon reclaiming his portfolio, I imagine the Dark One would have been none too pleased with his faithless previous High Imperceptor.

Fzoul Chembryl, a Chosen of Bane, helped bring about Cyric's downfall and aided greatly in restoring the church of Bane, but I haven't found reference to Chembryl having the rank of High Imperceptor. He was so loyal that Bane raised him up as an Exarch for his service.

Fast-forward the age of Bilbo Baggins at the start of the Fellowship of the Ring (111 yrs for the unlettered, spoken in a Gale-like voice), and we have the Banite-laden plot of Baldur's Gate 3, without a single character I can find using the rank names in the previous century's lore for the church. Because of this fact, I arbitrarily decided, for the purposes of my fics, that Bane recreated all the positions in his new church so I could have rank names to use that felt less off than incorprating the old ones. Deleting the entire rank system that included the unfaithful feels like a Bane thing to do, ya know?

I decided that since, in more recent years, the church fosters cooperation to gain power and influence, I'd create a small ruling body with new titles, incorporate the titles found in-game into the ranks and flesh those out a bit.

Thus was born the Black Hand of the Church of Bane...

The Black Hand includes the Chosen and four others, or the Chosen may sit above all five ranks if they prefer to be less hands-on (pun intended). Should they wish to be part of the Hand, the Chosen is granted the highest rank, whether or not that seat is currently occupied. What happens to the current occupant is entirely at the whim of the Chosen.

The Chosen's rank will be the Prime Digit, Black Sovereign, or Dread Patriarch/Matriarch. All these names are the same rank/person. The leader of the cult (the Chosen in this case) selects their preferred title.

The Chosen corresponds to the thumb of the hand. It is the digit without which a hand loses the most versatility. Hence, one of the names for the top rank in the cult is simply the Prime Digit.

The other four are the 1st - 4th Digits and are sometimes called the Fingers of the Hand. They have titles as well. They work in conjunction with one another and report directly to Gortash. He doles out the orders, but status reports, etc, go to his assistant.

The thumb is the Black Sovereign (Gortash).

The first finger/digit is the Black Claw.

The second is the Black Gavel.

The third is the Black Binder.

The fourth is the Black Needle.

Sometimes, we drop Black from the titles.

For Gortash, when he isn't called simply the Chosen or Director, he prefers Sovereign and Prime. The leader he replaced in my fics preferred Patriarch, and to say Gortash did not get along with him is putting it lightly.

Classes:

The Claw and Gavel are usually high-level fighters or clerics.

The Binder is invariably the most powerful magic-user in the cult.

The Needle is always an alchemist.

Black Gauntlets are the most numerous Banites in-game. I've placed their ranking directly below the Hand, as the stronger ones act as Gortash's guards in Wyrm's Rock. Low rank Banites wouldn't be given that responsibility, though some Iron Consuls are considered his bodyguards, so I put them directly below the Gauntlets. I've decided that Black Gauntlets are similar to high-ranking military, and the Iron Consuls are lower ranking but still are officers of a sort.

For my purposes, I've decided that the strongest Black Gauntlets can obtain a rank on the Black Hand. Thus, some in-game Black Gauntlets will have Hand ranks in my fics.

Almost every Banite we fight is a cleric or a fighter, and this feels truly silly to me. (Though I do love how laughable their clerical powers actually are, befitting Bane's current status as a quasi-deity). I've also seen no instances of them using healing magic. It makes sense from a might-makes-right deity, but it also makes his clerics comparatively weak.

I've created additional consul ranks for more variety in function.

The new consul ranks I've added are as follows:

Iron: Fighters (and the uncleric-like clerics), Rangers & Monks

Bronze: Rogues & Warlocks

Gold: Wizards, Sorcerers & Bards

Obsidian: non-combatant thinker types (Gortash's assistant is this rank)

Malachite: bottom rung office workers

Below these are the Fists of Bane.

I'm debating whether it was Bane who changed the rank names or if Gortash did it instead. His memoir notes say he re-established the Banite cult (though I have beef with so much in that document's timeline, particularly in how it deviates from the tiny bits of Durge's actual memory that come through in narration). The scrunkly tyrant is arrogant and ambitious enough to have arbitrarily decided to alter a hierarchy that had been in play for thousands of years. He's going to rule the world, after all.