#yes I'm talking about sylki

[shivieroy]

i still can't believe i let a mcu couple have this effect on me in the year of our lord 2023

[starlight-bread-blog]

Why Lokius Should Have Been Canon

This is a sort of combo of two metas that didn't quite get point my across. Some parts will be copied directly, but there's a lot of original content. I will discuss the ship between Loki and Mobius, their place in the show, and the MCU at large. My focus for this meta won't be parallels or motifs, because these things border on well-written friendships. But there will be some of that.

Romance in the MCU

There are a lot of straight couples in the MCU. (Almost) Every main hero is in some heterosexual relationship, Loki included.

(That's not all, not remotely).

But in the LGBTQ+ department... uh.. I think it was mentioned that Valkyrie had a girlfriend... uh... America Chavez had a pride pin... and Loki:

One line. Queer experiences are never a focal point of a show/movie the same way heterosexual experiences are. And that needs to change.

Romance In the Show

Wrong, toxic, or unsuccessfu romantic love is a recurring theme in the show.

Sylki

Sylki was an icky relationship right off the bat. They are the same person. I can't find the post at the moment, but someone has pointed out in their post that them being the same person is referenced in every episode in season 1 (edit: here it is), which is when the romance took place. This made their romance uncomfortable for many viewers.

(Some consider Sylki a toxic relationship, but for this post, the topic is too large to handle with the nuance I'd like to handle it with).

When he's drunk, Loki compares love to a dagger, stating that it hurts you, but when you try to find strength in it, it's not real.

Which is exactly what happens. Sylvie pushes Loki into a portal and they never get back together.

The Love Triangle

In 02×03, Ravonna Renslayer is infatuated with Victor Timely, but he leaves her behind and betrays her when Miss Minutes told him to. One episode later, we discover that they were indeed an item, and established the TVA together. He Who Remains deleted her memories and they never rekindle their love.

Later in the episode, is the best example of "wrong" romance in the show. Miss Minutes, the AI clock, confesses her love to Viktor Timely. He, obviously, freaks out and shuts her off. Nothing ever comes of this.

Brad and Dox

This one is small, but a big indication to romance being a theme. In 02×01, we're shown this:

The gap in the age of the actors is uncomfortable, and a character in universe has this reaction to it. It is never mentioned again.

So what does all of this leave us with? Not much. None of this properly ties to the finale, or anything really. If I were to write the show I would cut a lot of this out, since it serves no purpose. But it does make you keep romance and its shortcomings in mind. The writers want it to be there, in the back of your head.

Loki and Mobius

Finally! I got to talk about them. The two people in question. First things first, who are they, together? They became really supportive, close friends.

Fans even drew parallels to Chaos & Order, which is a very important theme in Loki. But I'm not here to unpack them. These things don't necessarily make them in love. So what does make them in love? I'll present you my evidence, and you ask yourself,

Would it be valid to suggest romantic implications if a man and a women are:

1) Extremely thouchy with each other.

2) Riding on a tandem bike together.

3) Willing to suffer a fate worst than death for another.

4) Falling on each other after that^

5) Literally the Interrupted Declaration of Love trope. (Ex)

6) Being framed in a circle.

7) Waiting & giving permission to attack.

8) Fixing themselvs before seeing the other.

Of course yes. Maybe you think some of these are a strech, but ultimately, people would point out romantic connotations across the board. And I'm here, pointing them out right now. Some scenes between Loki and Mobius have romantic implications.

Conclusion

Loki is a queer protagonist in the MCU, a universe that lacks representation of queer experiences. His show constantlty reminded us of romance, sometimes for seemigly no reason. In the second season, they wrote him and his best friend with romantic implications. And then, nothing. It should not have been nothing. Lokius should have been canon.

[imnobodysbaby]

that can't be it. srsly?!?!?! but no, yes i am MAD that we didn't get to see Sylki kiss but i am even more madder that we didn't even got the chance to hear out how Sylvie feels, BECAUSE SHE FEELS A LOT AND YOU CANNOT TELL ME OTHERWISE! WHY?

Just the way she looks at Loki when she found out that Loki had the choice to kill her and the universe will be saved, but he didn't. CAN YOU EVEN IMAGINE HOW SHE FELT WHEN SHE FOUND OUT ABOUT THAT?

When Loki goes out to the Loom, we can see how Sylvie is frantic and says "I need to get out there" so she can be with him, but she can't and all she can do is watch, not even knowing what will happen to him. YOU CAN SEE ALL THE CARE AND LOVE IN HER EYES

this one shot of everyone being just silhouettes and we can see the light center at her only for a while but we can clearly see the look on her face. her hand on her mouth just shows how fckng worried she is

also THIS

WE CAN SEE THAT SYLVIE UNDERSTANDS. SHE KNOWS THAT LOKI KNOWS WHAT SHE WANTS. AND THAT IS TO HAVE A NORMAL LIFE. SHE CAN SEE WHAT LOKI IS ABOUT TO DO, SHE UNDERSTANDS THAT HE’S DOING THIS FOR HER (for all of them ofc) AND WHY SHE SAID, “He’s giving us a chance”. WE CAN CLEARLY SEE THE HURT IN HER EYES!!!

“for you” (FCK I AM WRECKED 😭😭😭)

SERIOUSLY, I'M PRETTY SURE A LOT OF THINGS ARE GOING ON IN HER MIND. THEY DIDN'T EVEN GET THE CHANCE TO TALK!!! AND WHY DIDN'T WE GET MORE OF SYLVIE'S SIDE IN THIS MATTER?!

Sylvie is new to this kind of feelings, that's why it's hard for her to let it out, BUT WE CAN CLEARLY SEE THAT SHE DOES CARE FOR HIM SO MUCH AND I HATE IT SO MUCH THAT THEY DIDN'T EVEN LET HER EXPLORE IT OUT MORE.

SYLVIE IS LITERALLY THE HEART OF THE WHOLE SERIES. Everything Loki does boils down to her/for her (and ofc for his newfound friends and family) and to think everything started because of her and we didn't even get a chance to see what she'll do now. YOU ALSO CANNOT TELL ME THAT SHE WILL JUST LIVE ON WITH HER LIFE AND NOT THINK OF LOKI BECAUSE SHE WILL OKAY?! SHE CAN GO AFTER HIM IF SHE WANTS (she still have He Who Remains tempad bracelet thingy soooo)

ALSO LAST THING I am also MAD that we finally see how Loki is when he falls in love that he literally sacrifices EVERYTHING, GOES OUT OF HIS WAY, GOES BACK TO HIS VILLANOUS HABIT JUST TO FIND HER AND IT ALL ENDS UP LIKE THAT?!?!??! I WILL NOT ACCEPT IT!

[tremendoushideoutfun]

All right, I'll say it. I'm getting pretty tired of all the “how come Loki and Sylvie still haven't declared their love for each other, kissed, slept together, etc.” whining. I'm a Sylki shipper myself, but I can understand why it hasn't happened yet. Because the story is focused on something else. Not on Loki's romance alone, but on his development, on him finally becoming a hero. And what makes a hero a hero? A hero puts the greater good before the personal. Has to. And that's what Loki does. He puts his personal motives aside and sets out to save the world.

Yes, a hero can have personal motives. But remember how hard it was for Loki to admit that he wanted to save not just TVA, but himself from loneliness. That thought was buried so deep inside him that talking to Sylvie could barely bring it out. And to say “I love you, I need you” openly? Hell, he barely managed to say “I want my friends back”.

Yes, things are slow for Sylki-shippers. Very slow. But let's stop talking as if we have nothing, as if Loki and Sylvie act like strangers. Remember the song Sylvie was listening to. And more importantly, remember that when Loki realises how to control his time-slipping, when he realises “It’s not about where, when, or why. It’s about who”, Sylvie is one of those who he connects with. Strangers?

[charcubed]

Look, I personally lose nothing if Lokius doesn’t become explicit canon. And if that were to become the case, I’d also have no regrets for saying for years that that would happen in the show by the end ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I’ve said it before, but by now it would be Disney/Marvel’s loss, NOT mine. Whoever wasted or limited the potential would be the idiot, not me.

I’m simply never gonna feel crazy for noticing what’s happening in a story or silly for daring to hope it’ll be brought to fully satisfying narrative completion. That's just a me thing. Maybe this is because at heart I’m stubborn! But I’d like to think I’m not unreasonable. I can’t control whether writing stays consistent or censorship is overcome... But I just do my best to construct solid arguments, and as long as those arguments remain solid, I stand by them :)

I know not everyone would say the same, or they consider this to be "hope" or "optimism," but I see it as logic based in noticing what the text of a show/story is doing. And personally I also consider blatantly evident subtext to be "canon enough," so if we get my personal minimum, my happiness may still outweigh any potential disappointment for me.

However. Here's what I've come here to say today, in reaction to things I've seen floating around in the fandom:

While I do understand on some level why people worry that Lokius won’t be more explicitly canonically romantic because it could be censored by Disney.... At this point, I don’t understand how people can think Loki/Sylvie will still happen.

As of right now, there’s no way to argue for that in my opinion. (I'd like to see someone try.)

The show has set up a fun but very simple situation from basically the start:

They made romantic love a point of relevance in the show’s story. More specifically, they pointed out Loki's desire for a "real" romantic love, and had him learn the lesson that he doesn't deserve to be alone. They didn't HAVE to do all of those things and tie them together. They CHOSE to make romantic love relevant – and they have actively continued to choose to do that, to the point of including a mirrored dark love triangle in s2 ep3. That narrative thread simply has to be fulfilled.

So if they deliberately established that Loki wants and needs a “real” love, and his relationship with Sylvie was referred to as "fiction" so she cannot be a real love for him.... Who does it have to be?

Obviously it has to be Mobius. And of course, the whole show points to Lokius also, for countless more reasons than just this simple breakdown. But pointing this element out is the simplest argument one can make.

So either...

1. They take Lokius to full narrative completion with explicit canon, as they should and as I expect them to,

or

2. Loki's desire for a real love is left unfulfilled, open-ended, and/or made clear through subtext that it's Mobius.

Those are the options, if you ask me!

This is aside from how Lokius’ love story is now even at the core of the show’s themes and plot, which is an insanely strong vote in favor for their future canonicity.

But for the purposes of this post, I’m talking about whether we'll get explicit romance specifically, like a love confession or a kiss – and I do actually genuinely think we'll get both of those things. I'm not trying to force you to agree with me, but just to be clear, that's where I'm at with it and have been since 2021 lol.

So in regards to worrying about Loki/Sylvie...

They were never really a romance (yes, even in season 1) and they sure as hell aren't now. I can’t imagine they'll become one even IF Lokius is left subtextual.

So what actually remains to be seen is if the writers got to go all the way with Lokius, or if that central queer love story was censored on some level in the end.

My hot take is no one should be ~worrying~ about Sylki at this stage of the game. Free yourselves, people.

If the story starts abruptly going in a Sylki direction, even with only 3 episodes left, I will certainly be the first to say so lol. But I simply sincerely, truly doubt that'll happen.

(Hot take in the footer: this is not the post to get into this at length, but in case this comes up… In this house we do not use the word "queerbaiting." It is a useless, nearly-meaningless, insufferable term that devalues the legitimacy of subtext and queercoding more often than not; it's rooted in the idea that media must hit arbitrary and inconsistent checklists often set with cishet approval in mind; and it perpetuates a focus on the false and harmful myth that many creators are "cowards" instead of leaving room for nuance and the fact that industry censorship still exists.)

[busyxfangirling]

The second season is honestly becoming increasingly harder to watch because what are they trying to do?

The show is titled Loki but he feels like a side character is his own show, I know many MANY things are happening but literally Loki is not the central figure driving the story.

My expectations were low but I did not know Disney could do this much worse!!!!

What the FUCK was episode 3 with the Miss Minutes thing and weird little Ravonna/Victor attempt???

Marvel is just getting worse and worse with what they're putting out, I want the character or even narrative driven stories back where people were well fleshed out, had consistency and their actions made sense to who there were!!! This feels like just trying to sell shock value because you know you have a base of consumers who will stay to see what happens to their favourite character.

They are absolutely ignoring all the material they have available to them to work with! This Loki has only experienced things till the Avengers movie, there is so much character deep dive they could do! What is the point of giving them their own show and then not talking about them at all??

I'll come to the queer things later cause boy do I have a list for that, but first of all, Loki is not a new character in any capacity??? He has been loved and is arguably the biggest fan favourite since his introduction, the amount of theories about him and what people would like to see is very well known!! Right in front of them is his still unclear feelings in his adoption, about being a Jotun, loosing his family and the complicated relationships with them. I can see they are acknowledging his God of Mischief status a little bit but!! Trickster!! Let us see him be a wild card properly!! Not in the sense of betraying his new TVA family - that's what it is and you can fight me on that- but being chaotic!! Yes, using his magic like with Brad!! SHOW ME HE IS A GOD!!!

The worst thing is how lost everyone feels, like I'm not talking about the whole free will conundrum everyone is going through, that is spectacular! Unfortunately it is not coming across, we literally don't get to hear any of the characters talk about what they think of it. There was the key lime pie moment but no follow up to what that is for Loki? It's just one crisis after another, maybe rehash some of what has already happened, bring back the seriousness of this!! The entire multiverse is at stake but we'll make it look like whimsical wishy-washy stuff??!??!!!

Don't get me wrong, I am LOVING the time travel aspect of it, where it looks like Loki/Mobius are on cute dates. But then make it real, the fucking queerbaiting is ridiculous. The throw-away comment in season one about looking being bi was just that and nothing else. And I'm not saying this cause aww they look cute together! But also cause the development of their relationship has been as such!! They have been very dependent on each other and that's not being addressed at all.

I know there are multiple posts about a possible betrayal and my fear is that they're going to try to use that to basically change everything about the characters again, a lot of OOC based on the fact that oh yeah they're going through an existential crises so it makes sense.

Sylkie made barely any sense to me even apart from the whole selfcest issue- they just imposed a the structure of what a straight relationship should be where there was barely any chemistry. S1 E3 had them as really good chaotic siblings/twins and then adding the romantic tones to that really ruined it. Trying to bring it back, possibly, is just weird cause so far they want very different things. These people just don't align together, stop forcing them to? The fact that they refuse to even talk about that kiss shows that they are keeping it open and not just acknowledging that "hey, we don't want the same things in life and I'm happy for you, you matter a lot to me but a romantic relationship is not happening. Also cause you know, we're the same person, lol."

Sylvie as a character is also very confusing rn, there is honestly no need for her to keep coming back in this way??? I'm going to reserve further opinions because half the season is left but I dont expect anything to really get better.

[griseldagimpel]

425 Works on AO3 Check In

I've now got 425 works up on AO3, so it's time for my scheduled check in on fandom behavior in regard to my works. As a reminder, you can find past entries in this series using the "griselda gimpel AO3 checkins" tag.

Not really anything to report for this check in, honestly. I haven't gotten any harassment since last check in. I did get a couple-few mildly irritating comments on "A Lap Dance for Mr. Bonzo", but nothing that rises to the level of harassment. Just the usual "people forget that when they leave a comment, an actual person will be reading it".

Anyway, last check in, I talked about fandom as a panopticon. This time, I'm thinking about the temporal nature of fandom misbehavior.

Okay, one of the fics I wrote recently was another Sylki fic. And I know there are Sylki Antis. They've never bothered me, personally, but I know they exist. And I wasn't in the Voltron fandom, but my friend Stitch was, and she's told horror stories about the fan misbehavior in that fandom. And I was in the Our Flag Means Death fandom, and I know how toxic the Izzy Antis there were.

Loki season two ended a bit ago. There's still a lovely Sylki community here on tumblr I belong to, but I imagine the fandom has died down a bit. I know Our Flag Means Death has, and I haven't heard of Izzy fans getting harassment recently. Voltron's also faded, it seems.

So...where did the toxic fans (or anti fans) in those fandoms go afterward? Did they mature and stop harassing people? Did they leave fandom all together? Or are the toxic fans of one fandom the same toxic fans of fandoms that were popular in years past? It's definitely worth study if someone has a good methodology.

(I am unable to be the one to conduct this study. I block toxic fans on their fist offense.)

Anyway, to recap, in total:

In the Our Flag Means Death fandom, I got a harassing anonymous Ask on tumblr for being an Izzy fan.

In the This Is How Your Lose the Time War fandom, I got an angry comment on a fan fic because it featured a pit bull. Yes, the dog. No, this one will never stop being hilarious to me.

In The Magnus Protocol fandom, my Dickonzo fic got mocked on tumblr.

I've had multiple instances of getting angry comments or my work reported because I talked about racism.

Coming up, I'll be posting an Ouizzy fic and a Dickonzo fic for two of my big bangs, so we will see what the response to them is.

[afirewiel]

Loki, Sylvie, Sylki, and the Future of the MCU.

Firstly, as you may have heard, the MCU is reportedly scrapping the whole Kang storyline and replacing him with Dr. Doom. I have no doubt that this is in response to the domestic abuse allegations made against Jonathan Majors. The issue, however, is how are they going to write Kang out of the MCU? They spent years, both seasons of Loki, and Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania setting up a multiversal war with Kang's numerous variants. So how are they going to swap out Kang for Dr. Doom? They can't just pretend Kang never existed or was a threat. That would be absolutely terrible writing. The only thing I can think of is to have the Dr. Doom variants take out the Kang variants because they want to be the most powerful.

My next point of concern is Sylki and just what the MCU is going to do with it. I know that it can't be the main focus, not with so many other characters needed to fight the war. But I do want them to at least acknowledge it was a romance. The writers of Loki have said several times that it is a romantic relationship. It just didn't feel that strong in season 2 and I think they need to actually commit to the bit. Especially if, as I suspect, this is might be the last phase and end of the MCU.

I really don't want Sylvie and Loki's first reunion since the end of season 2 to happen off screen. It's something they need to show. So either a) only a short amount of time has passed when we get the reunion or b) HWR's tempad cannot take Sylvie to where Loki is. I say this part because I really hate the idea of Sylvie not going to find Loki quickly. Even Sophia said in a recent interview that Sylvie wouldn't leave Loki alone for long and the only way I will accept her not doing so is if she is unable to go to him. Plus, imagine the drama of their reunion if that ends up being the case.

Of course that is assuming that we get show-Loki (which it sounds like we are). I wouldn't mind getting movie-Loki, but not just him. If we only get one Loki, I want it to be show-Loki. What's the point of making him the God of Stories and replacing HWR otherwise if they're not going to have him participate in the multiversal war? And I'd hate to have the only Loki we get be one who doesn't know who Sylvie is. If they brought in both Lokis, though, they could really have some fun with it. Just imagine Sylvie meeting movie-Loki, quickly realizing it's not her Loki, and going "Damn! Wrong Loki!" and he just goes, "What are you talking about? I'm the only Loki!" Plus, it would be awesome to see how the two Lokis play off each other. Especially considering just how different their lives have been after the battle of New York.

Speaking of different versions of the same character, I know because this is dealing with the mutliverse, we are very likely to get variants of the other characters. And I'm fine with that, but the one character that I want our version of and not just a variant is Thor. I want our Thor to meet show-Loki and learn what he's done. It just wouldn't hit the same with a different version of Thor. And think about how much our Thor has lost. He's lost both of his parents, Loki (multiple times), Heimdall, Vlostagg, Hogun, Fandral, maybe Sif, his home, and now Jane. Yes, he gained an adopted daughter at the end of Love and Thunder, but that's just one gain compared to all of his losses. He needs to gain more. He needs Loki back. He needs to meet Sylvie and take her to heart as a sister (which he would totally do).

All in all, I guess you could say that I'm mildly optimistic about the future of the MCU.

[darklinaforever]

OK. I need to talk about it (particularly because I rewatched the entire series yesterday) ! Like many, I'm shipping Sylvie & Loki, otherwise known as Sylki, from the Loki series from Disney +.

However, I always manage to come across anti bullshit, each time I go to the tag dedicated to this couple. And it's unbearable. Especially with the bullshit being said there.

So already, people basically don't like Sylki and Sylvie, because Sylvie would treat Loki "horribly" and "use him"…

So… It's forgotten that Loki was probably planning to kill her at the start of Episode 3, but didn't because she was the only one who knew how to recharge the Time Pad. So technically, the two contemplated killing each other, and served each other up in episode 3.

Also, by the end of episode 2 and the beginning of episode 3, Sylvie is completely normal with Loki the rest of the time, and even cares about him. The two actually end up forming a willing partnership. Sylvie even wanted to face Alioth on her own, and for Loki to return to TVA. When he said that if she goes, he goes too, she made it clear that his plan might not work out, so she cares about his life and she always proposes that he go. with Mobvious. Hello for "treat him horribly / only use him".

Then clear me of doubt…

But isn't Sylvie a Loki variant ? So she looks like him in that fact, right ? Doesn't she go through almost the same arc, or rather similar (it's much more correct) to the one that Loki had in the films ? I'm guessing with that logistics, you mustn't like Thor and Loki's brotherly relationship either ? And that it's especially Loki that you should hate in this relationship, considering how he treated Thor at one point (even if Thor is not without fault in this whole complicated family affair) and even tried to kill him in the first movie ? Along the same lines, I guess you don't like the Frigga and Loki relationship, and therefore specifically Loki, since he emotionally hurt his mother in the second film and unwittingly caused her death afterwards…

Seems like these are two very popular relationships within the fandom, and Loki has never been hated for the slips he made in those relationships, not to mention the other bad things he did on the side . There are even a lot of people who ship Thor and Loki together ! So… If you hate Sylvie because she "wasn't nice" to Loki… Why don't you hate Loki himself for a lot of things that happened before the show ?! Because, technically, there is no difference ! And Sylvie did not watch Loki, only what he himself did to his relatives ! He says it himself : He betrayed all the characters he loved and who loved him ! That Sylvie "betrayed" Loki at the end of the series therefore had a certain obviousness, even if compared to what some say, it is not so much a question of betrayal as of being blinded by the need for revenge.

So why is Sylvie getting so much hate for not being "nice / loyal to Loki unfailingly" to Loki ? The only real difference technically is that she's a woman, and… Oh. That's the difference. Obviously !

Then, some hate this relationship for the "incest" aspect…

So…

Sylvie and Loki are not brother and sister. They have nothing to do with family.

Yes, they're technically "the same person", according to the show, but it's a lot more complicated than that actually, and I imagine the rest of the show will expand on that aspect. A variant is not exactly the same person. It's more or less a mutation I think. And if I say no bullshit, even on the DNA level it is different. And Sylvie refuses to truly define herself as a Loki, and rightly so. They are different people, who have had their own lives and experiences on their own. They are not the same, but similar. Two different things.

Then there are other people who don't like it for the "narcissistic aspect", and I refer you for that to this article by the director of Loki which explains what "self-love" really means. through the sylki relationship in the series. Which ultimately has nothing to do with narcissism, you can imagine. There is also talk about the incest aspect that he refutes just as much !

Also, again, there are people who ship Thor and Loki. And they are brother. Yes, not biologically, but for the rest ? They are brothers in every way that matters. However, it doesn't bother anyone to ship them, and I've never seen anyone be scandalized by it like with Sylki, who once again has nothing to do with incest in the end...

And even if it was ! I want to tell you… who cares ? Yes, because, little detail that a lot of people seem to forget… It's gods, isn't it ? Isn't incest common among the gods ? Yes, I know, among the Nordic gods it was not very well seen, unlike among the Greek gods, or we don't care ! But ! However, if you look closely, even if the Nordic gods were not in favor of incest, at least for the Aesir, well it still happened, especially among the Vanir, who were totally in favor of it ! And that I know, like the Greek gods, it had no genetic repercussions ! Because… Well they are gods, again ! And the conventions of mortals and their constraints, who cares for the gods !?

So your moralizing discourse, you can keep it to yourself.

And then… The most pathetic aspect of the returning reviews is about the kiss, which apparently "doesn't make them romantically canon." So, despite the fact that the romance is very assumed throughout the series, it is not canon, and the only thing that could make it seem romantic would be the kiss, but which in fact is nothing romantic ! So it's not canon ! Compiled once again that by the way Sylvie has only used Loki throughout this story…

So, I've already refuted the "Sylvie having used Loki" aspect, so I'm not going to come back to it… But ! I won't refute that Sylvie used the kiss a bit to distract Loki and then send him somewhere else. Except… Well she didn't have to kiss him specifically for that. She could have chosen another method, which implies that she wanted kiss him somewhere. The director also explains that Sylvie actually kissed Loki to say goodbye ! Especially since it's not as if the series had already shown before that Sylvie had feelings for Loki ! People forgot the fucking Nexus in the beginning of episode 4 ?! Because, yes, I remind you that we are not talking about one-sided love in this mess ! It is always insunated that it is reciprocal ! They are referred to as a couple of Loki in the series ! Miss minute offers them a universe where they could be together ! If only the "shared blanket / tablecloth" scene damn it ! Oh yes ! It sure looks like one-sided love... ! Yes, because for some people ; Sylvie is not in love with Loki and has only used her personal feelings to distract him in this moment…

Are you being stupid or blind on purpose ?

Seriously, I keep seeing jerks say "What are Sylki fans celebrating in that kiss! It's not romantic canonization! She's just manipulating it! There's never nothing romantic between them in the whole series!"

It's on the same level as everyone who said Reylo was nothing romantic and the kiss finally shared at the end of all their romantic tension over 3 movies was nothing romantic and was just an impulse to thank him, or even worse a "brotherly kiss" !

The comparison is all the more relevant as some say that "Yes, Sylvie loves Loki, but like a brother ! Or, I prefer that she loves him like a brother!" !

It is pathetic.

[gyarucoded]

gimme a sec i need to talk about this !!

so i saw a long ass reblog under an anti-sylki blog that started off as something like "actually loki & sylvie has good romance chemistry meanwhile loki & mobius doesn't have any romance chemistry at all"🤓– and in this moment i went "alright best frien i'm not reading all that" then went to block instead of arguing.

didn't try reading that bullshit of a post further either just to anger myself, i know better.

i especially didn't wanna argue cuz i think that was a child..??? (assuming from the miracoulus ladybug theme cuz no adult in their right mind enjoys that trash) but if i'm wrong that just makes it worse tbh, like grown ass ppl who srsly think toxic relationships should be the example of peak romance needs their brain to be studied fr.

i usually try to be respectful for others' opinion but i genuinely can't see where this opinion comes from.

makes no goddam sense to me.

maybe it's cuz i can't view things through a heterosexual lens, maybe not.

who knows?

but...(i won't make this abt lokius but focusing more on the "loki & sylvie" part) this made me wonder like...

what do sylkie shippers even post about?

no i won't check it out myself to spare myself from the headache but do they go "omg today episode's syIkie crumbs was so lovely dovely 🥺" and the crumbs in question is them disagreeing on almost everything and sylvie wanting to avoid loki as much as she can & constantly seeming to be angry at him.

sure, in s1 they did have a couple of cutesy romantic moments like being under blankets despite of them being supposedly immune to cold or the literal kiss but, it truly doesn't take a huge analyzation to realize that this "relationship" became one sided, even in that one little moment when they had to hold hands, sylvie immidiately goes "don't overthink it" like omgggsfg💀😭 and it's also clear that loki eventually got the hint, in ep3 he doesn't try to be with her anymore or gets emotional with her, he silently gave up.

not to mention loki avoiding to mention the kiss, when appearantly the two has nothing to hide? 😕

i don't know where this is gonna be heading off but if they randomly switch up after all this character & dynamic development then i have no hope for marvel's writing team cuz that would basically create a plot hole.

like aside from the psuedo-incest, that used to bother me in season 1 era but now i am concerned more about how this "ship" overall has no appeal, yet some of these ppl genuinely thinks it can work healthily between them and that ppl who are against it are just "petty that their gay ship isn't canon" when there's MORE to this.

in season 2 there's absolutely *nothing* happening with them that would make us, the audience, root for them to be together as a couple like i'm sry.

so yeah you can say i'm doing too much and too crazy over a fictional tv show (yes i know that babes i have full self awareness) but i literally cannot stress enough about how unhealthy it is to think that this is how a good romantic chemistry works.

based on a syIkie shipper's views: we could technically say that me + that one co-worker of mine who we always have disagreements on political stuff with & dislikes me for no reason is my "lover"... since we wanna pretend this is how love works 😀😀 no?

[justanancientfangirl]

A bit of a rant: on Sylvie

Okay, look, as a preface: I do not hate Sylvie. I feel like I see a lot of hate for the character from a lot of people not Sylkie shippers, and I definitely do not hate her, even if the ship is something I struggle to see.

I actually like Sylvie's character a lot. She has had to struggle and fight and flee for something like a thousand years. I honestly don't begrudge her desire to stay in a quiet universe and just live a life. I want that for her, even.

Is she being a huge dick to Loki every time they interact this season? Yes. She refuses to listen to him (though he isn't being entirely straight with her either, to be fair), and she continually belittles his own choices and refuses to take responsibility for her own. She blames him and the TVA for the destruction of timelines, even though Dox's crew was, at the time, acting as a rogue element, and the issues that the timelines and TVA are currently facing are entirely her fault.

Again, I totally understand why she didn't listen to Loki at the end of season 1. It makes sense that she wouldn't want trust anything that He Who Remains had to say, and it makes sense that she wouldn't trust Loki at all. She barely knows him, and she's been alone her entire life. She doesn't really remember her life before the TVA ruined it. She has no friends, no allies. So yes, it was foolish of her to not stop and think for like ten seconds, but killing He Who Remains had been her ultimate goal for centuries. Of course she was going to do it.

HOWEVER. Because she killed He Who Remains, the multiverse is in danger. And just because I understand her inability to accept responsibility for her actions, does not mean I condone it. The lady is incredibly emotionally stunted. Of course she doesn't know how to take responsibility. She's been blaming other people for her problems her entire life (and most of that was 100% justified). To stop doing so now, when she hasn't had a chance to learn, would be bad writing.

I am all for a good character arc and a redemption story. Loki's himself has been...a little rushed. And they haven't touched on the trauma that was his time Before New York at all since that like, thirty seconds in season 1. Sure, he mentions NY a little flippantly here in season 2, but we all know that was just a way to get Mobius to talk. Point is, they have set Sylvie up for a good character arc, and kind of fast tracked Loki's without actually talking about some of the things I'm most interested in, but...eh, whatever. I can rant about that another time.

What I don't understand though, is Sylkie shippers. Like...number one, are we watching the same show? Season 1 seemed to have some unrequited pining going on, on Loki's side, especially before Loki and Mobius made up, but Sylvie has never shown any interest in Loki beyond that of a tentative ally. And really, there's no reason she should. When would Sylvie have had time, ever in her life, to think of romance beyond, possibly, an errant daydream? And this season, it really seems like she can hardly stand him.

Every time they interact, she lashes out, she tries to hurt him. She has told him, unequivocally, to leave her alone, multiple times. She listened to him say that he feared being alone most of all, and then she left him (I assume she has a tab at that bar, otherwise who the hell paid for those shots, and also, I've never met a bartender who would hear 'two bourbons' and just pour shots immediately, if it isn't a common order for that patron, but that's yet another rant for another day).

Like, she just seems to be going out of her way to be cruel, to drag him down, to blame him for everything, and to paint him as the bad guy. Sure, he wants to have his friends back, and maybe that IS selfish, but he ALSO wants to save the TVA because he believes that will save the multiverse, and that isn't, but she knows that once she pokes any holes in the story he's concocted for himself, he's only going to dwell on the bad side. Which he does. Her goal, I assume, is to get him out of her hair and leave her alone. She doesn't want to be involved with all this TVA stuff anymore. And...yeah, fair enough, except that the multiverse is actively disintegrating. Which is at least...oh, 45% her fault. (I'll grant that most of the fault lies on the heads of the old TVA, He Who Remains and Ravonna. And maybe like 3% Loki's fault. Everyone can take somewhat a share of the blame, but she really was trying to do the most. And she is the only one of our 'heroes' who hasn't taken any responsibility for the problems now facing the multiverse).

Look, I have shipped Loki with almost every single character he has had screen time with, if the story is well written enough for it to make sense. I've even read a Sylkie story that I actually managed to really get behind. (It took place before season 2, the premise being that in their fight at the Citadel, there was an accident and they ended up in Westview during the events of Wandavision, and were paired as a husband/wife duo for the show. It made sense, and there was enough of a build of their relationship that I was like...yeah, sure).

The writers of this show have NOT done their due diligence to make Sylkie make sense. In season 1, I could see that he might have a thing for her. But I never saw that being reciprocated.

Sylvie needs friends, she needs to learn how to trust, she needs stability, and she needs to figure out who she is as a person when she isn't on the run. She does NOT need a romance. A romance at this stage would be incredibly bad for her, really, if we give a shit about a fictional character's mental health.

I like Sylvie as a character. I think her arc has been interesting, but she is definitely still in the middle of it, and it is nowhere near resolved. I can't see a single instance in the show where she showed a romantic interest in Loki. (And...what, she kissed him? That was only to get him distracted enough to kick him out a time door so she could kill He Who Remains).

If this season ends with Sylkie endgame, I will have honestly lost faith in Marvel's ability to write a good story entirely. If they want the two of them to be together, they have to write them together. They have to actually be a team, not just constantly bickering (or in this season, Loki begging for her help and her telling him to stuff it). She only comes to help because her own universe gets shredded, not because she wanted to help Loki or save the other universes. She would not be good for him, at least not right now. That relationship would be hella toxic. Has she ever done anything for him? Just for him, not because he was useful to her in some way?

Look, TL;DR, I like Sylvie as a character and I want to see her grow and thrive, but Sylkie makes no sense and if they go that route this season it is bad writing. MCU has always been bad at romance and character development, but this would take the cake.

[elena-gilbert]

after reading s1 interviews it becomes clear that everything we loved about sylki/sylvie and everything that made sylki/sylvie great came from kate and michael.

s2 doesn't feel like a continuation of s1, sylki dynamic in s2 isn't the same as it was in s1, and sylvie is reduced to a sidelined low-key love interest in s2 when she was a co-protagonist in s1 because kate and michael, the main creators behind s1, are not in charge of s2.

their s1 ideological dispute in the citadel alone was a lot more engaging than their whole relationship in s2.

and the most importantly, i could really get why sylvie fell for loki. he saw her as a hero when everyone else saw her as a villain, he told her she was amazing to fight against the dictatorship, he was caring and attentive towards her. he is a completely different person with her in s2 and he is different in the worst possible way - he has became a stereotypical man invalidating his female "partner's" suffering, anger and opinions.

I think it's clear now that most of Sylki dynamics in season 1 was the brainchild of people who are no longer involved in the show. The new showrunners have a completely different point of view on them. Definitely, it was a conscious step away from romance. 😞

This whole season has been one big nothing for Loki and Sylvie's relationship. I want to hope for some kind of confession and a kiss in the final episode, but it just feels like the writers this season don't really care about their relationship. If cut out all these Sylki moments from s2, you know what happening? Nothing. It will absolutely not affect the plot in general, you could easily watch without it and understanding everything, which cannot be said about s1 where they were the driving force of the plot.

I like Loki but I can't understand his actions towards Sylvie anymore. I tried the first four episodes, honestly. The first-season Loki would never have been so cold to her even if he knew that she was wrong and did not agree with her. He would tried to convince her. You mentioned a fight in the Citadel. Yes, it was a kind of first big fight and a divergence of views on the situation, but God, how well it was done. All their dialogue as well as the fight itself were just *chef's kiss*. And I'm not talking about how much passion there was and the chemistry just sparkled between them! And compare this scene with their fights in season 2. All they do is exchange some random phrases with mutuals accusations and screaming at each other. I can't even call them enemies, they're just strangers. I'm also sorry for Sylvie as a character, her screen time has been cut very much this season and from this we can't understand her point of view. The plot in general is still all right, Loki/Sylvie dynamic just doesn't make any sense and most importantly has absolutely no connection with the first season.

If a miracle happens and they somehow ending the season together as a couple (which I doubt now) it won't be as epic, beautiful and emotional as if it were if Michael and Kate were still running the show.

[jebbifurzz]

Loki Series season 2... (this is spoiler free aside from mentioning character names)

I hated season 1. I wasn't gonna watch season 2. Period... But I saw some posts on tumblr this morning, got morbidly curious and slightly hopeful, and long story short... I ended up watching the whole thing in one sitting. It's my day off, don't judge me! You're not, probably, but I'm judging myself and projecting.

Was it a cinematic masterpiece? No. Good writing? Meh. Good acting? Hmm...

I'm not here to praise the show, but I am here to say that I was pleasantly surprised. This season, in my opinion, was a LOT better than season 1, in every way. BUT that is a very low bar, because I have an undying anger in the pit of my soul for season 1.

What was better?

1. Less Sylvie. Yes, she was still a character, but the narrative and universe didn't revolve around her, and we didn't have all the characters singing about how the sun shone out of her butt. And she wasn't stomping around lording her will over everyone else.

2. Endearing Characters. OB and Casey were wonderful and adorable. Mobius actually seemed better, less horrible. Victor Timely was startlingly sweet in spite of how put off I was by HWR.

3. Loki did things. Very low bar when you're happy the main character actually did things, but here we are. Loki did things, and they mattered.

4. Loki talked about morality, choices, etc. Very surface level. Wasn't impressive or revelatory, but they at least talked about it and acknowledged that things were messed up.

5. Sylki was significantly downplayed. No hate for shippers, you do you, but the Sylki really detracted from the story for me in season 1. Here it was kind of treated like the Bruce/Nat thing after AoU. As in, it was mentioned, but didn't really go further. Thank you.

6. Loki wasn't a bumbling, flailing idiot. He was capable of thinking, introspection, problem-solving, magic he's been doing his whole life, etc.

I was still mad about a lot of things. They still tried to retcon a lot of MCU canon. There was still a LOT of problematic stuff all over. And they got really annoying and spent way too much time on some of the dumber plot beats. Loki was still quite often OOC. Not as terribly as in season 1, but still.

But. Somehow, with that ending, I feel okay...? Content. Like, I was filled with so much anger over season 1, but the season 2 ending helped me to feel like a wrong had been righted...

Maybe I'm riding a manufactured finale euphoria. I'll have to revisit this later and see how I feel. But yeah.

[nerdby]

I’m not talking about the comics, that’s why I only referred to it as the mcu. And I have seen eternals, that’s why I didn’t list him in the characters with Valkyrie. I’m trying to point out the nuances u missed and instead of understanding a different perspective, u spew defensiveness and reduce my point down to something trivial. You can personally go around saying it’s biphobic, but I do not think it is, and have my reasons and arg as previously listed. It’s another perspective very worth noting, and that your view isn’t the ultimate objectively correct view.

Okay, I'm gonna go a bit off topic and I don't expect you to read any of it because you've already made up your mind about me, but here we fucking go.

I understand your perspective. I just disagree with it. Because, personally, I think even mentioning that Loki is bisexual is a HUGE fucking deal. I don't need to see him make out with a dude in order to feel validated, okay? I grew up in the 1990s when movies involving queer characters were considered adult films that were not suitable for children or teenagers. They were R-rated simply because the main characters were queer. No one talked about sexuality unless it was point out how sinful it was and we did not even breathe the words gender unless someone was pregnant. Bisexuality was a footnote in the pages of books on LGBT rights.

That is why shows like Glee and movies like I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry were once considered groundbreaking, and why I personally love them. Granted Chuck & Larry would literally have no story if they had acknowledged bisexuality in the first place, but the thing is that bisexuality was too edgy for cinema back then. It would have made the movie less marketable because it would have alienated both biphobia queer people and cishet people. So when that movie was released and there was positive, laid back, funny representation of queer people -- representation that didn't paint queer people as pedophiles or murderers -- that's why me and my queer friends were ecstatic. Because even though the premise was flawed, it was a step in the right direction because it helped normalize queerness.

That's why I'm over the fucking moon just to see Loki come out even if he's in a straight-passing relationship. Especially because like I said, the MCU is currently under Disney's control and until the 2010's Disney has been notorious for only putting out queer-coded villains. Since Loki is a hero by the end of season two, that is a BIG fucking deal especially to queer people my age.

It doesn't matter whether or not you're talking about the comics, though, because like or not the MCU would NOT exist if it weren't for the comics that had been leftist reading material since 1941. So they are 100% relevant to this conversation.

The Sylki ship really upsets antis: People who think that just because something is taboo that makes it bad when in reality it's just a nod to the comics that the Loki series is based on. Specifically the 2011 arc Thor: Journey Into Mystery.

And bisexuals and queer people in general are not monoliths. We're gonna disagree on stuff. I've known I was bisexual since I was nine years old. I know from real life experience that bisexuals don't fall in love with everyone within a ten foot radius. Which is something I have been accused of in real life by insecure dumbasses. So, yes, I probably have some trauma I need to work through regarding that and if you've never encountered that kind of biphobia in real life then you are very lucky. That's why the idea of people perpetuating that myth is upsetting for me. That's not something I like to advertise because I think there is nothing stupider someone could do than advertise their triggers to an entire platform full of trolls, bigots, and bullies.

But I have nothing against Lokius shippers themselves. They can ship whoever they want -- that's the entire point of fanfictions and fan art and blah blah blah.

I don't seek out their blogs and harass them because of the ships they like. Or dislike.

When I see content I disagree with I just keep right scrolling and stay out of the comments so I don't say anything stupid or impulsive and start arguments like a petty child. This, however, is MY blog and I'm not going to censor myself for anyone. I'm allowed to say that something upsets me.

Now, I'm going to ask that you either stop sending me asks or else block me before I block you. Because this conversation has triggered my PTSD, and I'm not in the mood to continue it.

[holdmytesseract]

I just thought of a more fun idea: have a Loki Pageant. Every version is competing for the title of The Ultimate Loki. You are the judge. Here are the titles you must award:

-Mr. Ultimate Loki and first runner up

-Most Talented

-Mr. Congeniality

-Best Personality

The categories for judgement are as follows: talent, fighting skills, hotness, costume, and personality.

The contestants are the Loki versions from each Thor and Avengers movie (separately), as well as TVA Loki.

Ahhh, omg! What a fun idea! 😱😍

Okay, okay, let's start this! 😍

Mr. Ultimate Loki

I am crowning Ragnarok!Loki to the ultimate Loki, because for once, this Loki has seen everything. He's been through a lot and therefore, he's got a lot of experience. Despite that, he's just so cheeky, funny and utterly handsome in that movie. Recalling, once again, the black suit. And the fighting skill? I mean...

Look at them curlzzzz! 🔥

Mr. Ultimate Loki First Runner Up

TDW!Loki. His fighting skills are to die for, he's hot as hell, especially with the wild curls he had, when he was in the dungeons. And his costume... Ughhh 🥵 That green tunic gets me every time and I love his armour in that movie. I don't know why, it's just so fancy. His personality... Ooof... Sassy Loki here we go. "Well done, you just decapitated your grandfather." "I think you missed a column." "Evidently, there will be a line."

Most Talented

I think I'm going with Thor1!Loki with this. I think he showed us a lot of his powers in that movie. Recalling the fights on Jotunheim and with Thor. This was just brilliant. He looks so cute and soft in that movie, and ravishing and sexy at the same time. 🔥 We don't have to talk about the costume, do we? 🥭 His personality is very interesting in this one as well. He experiences so many feelings in that movie... Jealousy, anger, revenge, pain, sadness, betrayal...

Mr. Congeniality (I hope I am interpreting this word right ^^)

Avengers1!Loki. I mean... Yes, he's a bit of a bad boy in this (forced and tortured by Thanos, yes), but ugh... One look from him would be enough and I'd be a puddle on the floor. He's got that sexy dark energy, which is just, phew... 🥵 Not to mention his outfit... 🥵 And not to forget this scene, of course:

I'd kneel for you any time, Sir.

Best Personality

Well, we've got only one Loki left and that's our TVA!Loki. I love him. I really do. He's a sexy, arrogant bitch (and I mean that in a positive way) and a sweet muffin as well! 🥰 His fighting is magnificent as always - I mean... battling 'Sylvie' with a vacuum cleaner? Come oooon, that's awesome. Hotness? Well... We've had the utmost pleasure to see him almost entirely naked, so... And the costumes? I love the suit. I LOVE it. He's so sexy in that suit. I love his personality. The way he turns and kind of... learns to, uh, love himself. (No, no, I'm not saying I'm a Sylki shipper.) He's quite emotional in the series as well. Seeing how his life would've been and learning how Asgard got destroyed... It did something to him.

Hope I did this right @ijuststareatstuffhereok89 ! ☺️ This was soooo much fun, thank youuuu! 😁💚

[guzaarysh]

marvel stop hurting loki challenge