#you really think vegeta is sexist???

[risingsouls]

She drove her knee into his groin before walking out of the gravity chamber. "This is the reason whs I learned martial arts: to protect myself from idiots like you who think they have power over the female species!"

Sensing the woman's unwanted intrusion and impending attack, he dodged the knee handily. " What are you talking about? I don't care what you did or why you did it. Do you want a fucking cookie or something? Go bother someone who cares. "

[turtlemagnum]

in one of the episodes leading up to where i am now, they introduced a female character who not only has a face that isn't just yuria's again, but actually has a pretty cool design and seemed like she was gonna be a credible threat to ken. but holy shit did they handle her poorly in what might've been the most sexist way possible. like, i thought it was kinda bullshit that mamiya isn't as competent a fighter as at least rei is, but at least she pretty consistently can mow down the nameless goons about as well as the other two main fighters. but this new character, i think they named her bella, immediately like. her mom's like "hey!! give up fighting and go back to being a woman!!!" and the character sending her after ken is like "heh... ken would NEVER hit a woman... my plan is flawless....." meanwhile like. i didn't really see much of an indication that she didn't want to get into martial arts, and ken explicitly refuses to fight her not because she's a woman but because it's obvious she doesn't actually want to kill him. i definitely feel like we're supposed to take away that she doesn't wanna be a martial artist and that ken doesn't wanna hurt her because she's a woman? but i think what's explicitly said by the two themselves is A Lot Less Shitty and is actually coming from their own mouths, so i'm gonna purposefully misinterpret what the author probably intended to be less shitty.

there comes the point where she no longer wants to fight ken, and now she has to fight the person coercing her into doing this, and i know this is gonna sound weird but like. this is a show where men regularly get every part of their body viscerally mutilated, exploded, amputated etc, and that's all well and good. but the goddamn instant it's a woman getting mutilated, they only show a rose getting cut into pieces and it's like. that's fucking sexist, right? like i know i probably sound weird to a lot of you for wanting a woman to die brutally on screen, but i think if your show can explicitly show men dying brutally in a fight then women should be able to as well, y'know?? gender equality

i think part of why this stuck out to me as particularly shitty is that it frames her whole one episode arc as like, showing how tragic it is that a woman has to be a fighter in the post apocalypse, but it's like... mamiya was literally right there, has been shown time and time again to be an extremely competent fighter, and they never really made that big of a deal about her having a pussy while fighting. and like, i definitely see why they couldn't make her as strong as ken, because he's the Main Guy and you wouldn't want a non-antagonist side character to be an outright equal to him. i get that, there's a reason why you don't make vegeta as strong as goku, y'know. but like, in a world with straight up fucking magic, i don't see why your vegeta couldn't be a woman, y'know? i made mine a woman, at least. but even then, they didn't make mamiya's whole fucking deal that she was Woman, like it was definitely a significant part of her character (arguably too significant) but like, she had other qualities; which is what makes this character being Like That sting that much more, y'know

[jacquelinemerritt]

Dragon Ball Z: Abridged Episode 15 Review

Originally posted on September 11th, 2015

A failed attempt at positive representation.

You remember how last week I defended Dragonball Z: Abridged use of sexism and sexist jokes as a method by which to deconstruct characters that otherwise would be perfect? Well I really wish that I could say the same thing about the way in which Operation: Dodoria Drop handles the titular character, Dodoria, and Team Four Star’s revelation that she is in fact a she, despite her very masculine appearance and deep guttural voice.

This revelation comes about in the middle of a fight between her and Vegeta, as Vegeta insults her for “crying like a woman,” after which she screams out “I AM A WOMAN!” Then we cut away, and once we return, she has finished explaining that the way her alien species looks means that she, a large masculine looking woman, is among the most beautiful and “fertile” women on her planet.

On its own, I would be all for this: it’s a clever subversion of the expectations of femininity that people assign to women, as well as a clever dig at the fluctuating (and often unreasonable) standards of beauty we hold women to. I don’t even have a problem with her dying not long after she “comes out” to Vegeta, because she was working for a villain in an adaptation of Dragonball Z; her demise was inevitable.

The issue comes with the comments Vegeta makes to her after finding out her gender. He responds as if she’s a disgusting creature, and proceeds to guarantee that he will repress the memory of her gender (probably implying a refusal to acknowledge her gender in the future).

On the one hand, it’s completely in character, both with who Vegeta is, and who Team Four Star has slightly altered him to be. But it feels far too much like hurtful “punching down” humor for me to see it in any other light. Trans women and butch women are frequently harassed in real life for their appearance, and trans women are also subject to hateful jokes that deride them for not being “real” women for many reasons, and I can’t help but see Vegeta’s remarks as anything but an extension of that hateful behavior.

But on the other hand, I don’t think that Team Four Star meant any harm at all in this. In fact, I think that their intentions went no further than to include a little representation for butch women, trans women, and/or gender nonconforming folks. The inclusion of the (again, completely in character) transphobic humor ended up muddying what could’ve been great, clever, and funny representation, but their heart seemed to be in the right place, and they deserve credit for that.

Rating: 3/5

If you like this review, please consider supporting me on Patreon.

Stray Observations

Dr. Briefs: “Where did you get that muffin?” Goku: “Muffin button.” Dr. Briefs: “But I never installed a muffin button.” Goku: “Then where did I get this muffin?”

*crushes scouter* Vegeta: “It’s broken.”

I want to see a whole montage of Goku training to “Cooking by the Book” (or better yet, to the remix with Lil Jon).

@kaiserneko​ (tagging you for the sole purpose of thanking you for boosting this review back in the day. meant a lot to me back then and still does today)

[seventeendeer]

if you feel up to infodumping about it, i would love to hear your opinions on the Weird Writing for sonic the hedgehog's female characters. i've always had a massive soft spot for elise she's such a strange person when you look past the Generic Love Interest framing of her story and i really wish she'd gotten her own game

Ahhh thank you for enabling me, I have SO MANY THOUGHTS on this subject!! I've been super fascinated with the weird gender dynamics emerging in the franchise ... nearly since female characters were added at all. I think I've only really been able to put my thoughts into words recently, but it's a subject I've been interested in since I first got into the series as a kid.

(Also, I feel you on the subject of Elise - super interesting character more or less accidentally emerging from a very bland role)

Note: As usual, I’m mostly talking about the mainline games and Sonic X. While Sonic has a lot of spinoffs, I think Sonic X is so close to the spirit of the games that it is not a stretch to count it as an entry in the series’ core installments, particularly the second series/season 3. Especially because it originated in the same era as most of the lore currently defining the games, and there was a lot of migration back and forth between the two continuities regarding both characters and worldbuilding.

Anyway! On the subject of gendered writing in Sonic stories!

IMO, the biggest paradox in the Sonic games' and anime’s approach to female characters is that sexist writing is all over the place ... and yet the female cast is overwhelmingly the most layered and thematically interesting! Which they're then generally tortured and killed for. Whoops.

In order to understand why, I think it's important to remember that at its core, Sonic is very heavily inspired by shonen anime. If anyone's interested, look into the games' weird copycat relationship with Dragonball Z, for one. Sonic games wish they were Dragonball games so bad, it has negatively affected much of their history (Shadow's repeated Vegeta-ification is a good example).

Like shonen anime (it's right there in the name!), Sonic assumes a male player, a male audience. For this reason, you'll have a wealth of "cool" male characters to play as. Cool designs, cool powers, more diverse roles. Playable female characters are extremely limited, with only Amy and Rouge being sincere attempts to diversify the central cast just a tiny bit (Cream and Blaze used to qualify as well, but I'd argue they eventually graduated to the second category I'm about to talk about; more on them later). The main downside of this role is that characters the player is expected to project onto become limited in the kinds of stories and arcs they're 'allowed' by the writers to participate in. They're intentionally kept static so they can neatly slot into multiple narratives without being disruptive. Many of the male characters have vestigial emotional arcs - Tails' insecurities, Knuckles' complicated feelings toward his ancestors, etc. - but they're never allowed to go anywhere, directly influence the narrative or conclude in a meaningful way. They’re here to observe, then save the day, and that’s it. Anything beyond that would complicate continuity between games - or worse, jeopardize Baby Boy’s First Power Fantasy.

On the flipside, many of the story-heavy games employ one-off supporting characters as the emotional core of their respective narratives. And what kinds of characters make great foils to cool, powerful, emotionally repressed dudes primarily existing independently of their own stories? Less action-oriented, highly emotional girls absolutely fucking drowning in that narrative sauce.

Let me be clear: it’s sexist. Defining male characters by their cool powers and ability to save the day, while female characters are defined by their suffering and need for help, is deeply sexist.

Let me be clear, part two: characters who are closely tied to their narratives, who embody the themes of their own stories, who are allowed to struggle, who are allowed to express emotions and for those emotions to directly influence the narrative, are largely much more interesting characters.

Characters who come to some form of resolution are more interesting.

Unfortunately, Sonic games are largely a strange exercise in placing cute, simple cartoon animal characters into weirdly brutal, tonally inconsistent stories that circle themes of sacrifice like sharks smelling blood.

And so the girls die. Or they’re emotionally broken. Or they’re separated from their friends - and thus the spotlight - forever.

A rundown of major female Sonic characters, their narrative purpose, and the price they had to pay for it:

- Tikal: A peace-loving ghost girl serving as a spirit guide in her sole game appearance. Revealed to have been betrayed by her power-hungry family, forcing her to seal her soul away for thousands of years in order to prevent the end of the world. When the threat passed, it seems her spirit did too.

- Maria: A deathly ill 12-year-old who lived in a sterile care facility on a space station, but retained hope that one day she would be well enough to return to Earth. She stood up to armed military forces to save her brother figure/best friend, and got fridged for the trouble.

- Cream: Introduced as a playable character, but largely discarded by the franchise after her sole moment of real character focus in the anime. A character introduced as a pacifist who hates violence, eventually forced to beat a close friend to death in order to protect her other friends.

- Blaze: Also initially a playable character who had one Big Moment(tm), then vanished from the plot after only starring in a single followup game. Once best friends with Silver, she chose to absorb a rampaging god into her soul in order to save him and the rest of the world. Time and space were rewritten, and she resurfaced in a parallel universe where she grew up alone and horribly bullied. Though she and Silver have met again, they never have officially reconnected and don’t remember their past life together.

- Elise: A vessel for a powerful evil who grew up emotionally distant from all other people in order to keep the evil contained. When she finally made a friend, she was forced to rewrite time so they would never meet in an attempt to save the world. There’s a chance she’s faring better in the new timeline, but how would we know? She vanished from the plot as soon as she’d made that sacrifice.

- Cosmo: The last of her kind, save for the small group of villains who murdered the rest of their people. Went through hell in the one season of the anime she was featured in, then promptly died in order to gain revenge on her enemies and save her friends.

- Shade: We don’t know if there were more plans for her character after her debut game, but as it stands, she showed up, was first brainwashed, then betrayed by her own people, and chose to leave behind everything she knew in order to protect the world from her family and former friends.

Note that these are all the major female characters who show up in the games and anime, save for Amy and Rouge. And that’s not even counting the female leads of the storybook spinoff games, Merlina (a hero turned villain who did everything in her power to save her world from future ruin, defeated and left to grieve over her inability to change a thing) and Shahra (another girl who died to save a friend; revived at the end of her story but never seen again), or Molly from the anime who did some kinda sick speedrun strat, showing up in ONE episode where she had her heart broken and committed murder/suicide after she was betrayed by people she trusted.

By contrast, we have exactly one male character who follows the same pattern - Shadow, who went through similar emotional troubles and was intended to die at the end of his debut game. However, due to popular fan demand, he was brought back to life and added to the roster of recurring male characters. He even had much of his depth culled from newer games to match the rest.

Much spin-off media does better in certain ways, but I don’t know ... there’s something about that extremely consistent pattern in the main games and anime. It’s such an interesting paradox, having the female cast be simultaneously the most layered and well-written, but also the ones at highest risk of being emotionally tortured and discarded.

It’s definitely not a pattern unique to Sonic either, but by virtue of being such mindless feel-good stories where a good attitude and good friends can literally work miracles, I think it just stands out all the more. This loyalty to the concept of altruism and respect for soft emotions, paired with insistence on tragedy.

But only if you’re a girl. If you’re a girl, you are at once special and expendable.

You’re the only one who’s allowed to really embody the emotional truth of whatever absurd plotline the writers have cooked up this afternoon, you’re the only one who’s allowed to really express what this story is about at its core, but also you have to die for it. Or be sent away. You can’t be here anymore, at least.

I have no idea who writes these games. I could not tell you if there really is an emotional core, if anyone is actually putting in effort. I don’t know if it matters, either. Death of the author, etc.

What I do know is that there’s a meta-narrative here.

Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Silver, Omega, Vector, Espio, Charmy, Big, and sometimes even Mighty and Ray, go out on fun adventures to save the day. Amy and Rouge are here for flavor. We’ve decided Shadow can come, too, if he stops talking about his dead family all the time.

Tikal, Maria, Cream, Blaze, Elise, Cosmo and Shade (etc) show up for just a moment in time, go through trauma and heartbreak, and then disappear. Maybe they’ll have an unvoiced cameo later. If they’re lucky. If people like them enough.

There’s no real point to this, aside from explaining why I’m weirdly invested in just ... the concept of female existence in a children’s franchise mostly aimed at boys. Where everything will be okay, except when it won’t. Except when we need that bit of salt in the wound, so the victory will feel important, earned.

The price of getting real for just a moment being narrative death, if not straight up literal death.

Above all, Sonic games are cute. They’re appealing because they’re stupid and wholesome and weird. I love the male characters too, I’m not here for attempts at complexity, I’m here to have fun.

I’ve just also been feeling incredibly tempted as of late to write an ‘escape the narrative’ type deconstruction of these exact tropes, heavily inspired by Sonic and other children’s media in the same genre.

“Boys do stuff but have no feelings, girls have feelings but should endure all manner of suffering in order to protect others” is ... not an irrelevant theme to explore in our current media landscape, if you ask me.

even if I never get around to writing that, at least I made a sick Sonic AMV about all those poor girls going through hell for the sake of The Narrative, I should upload that sometime lol

also hey I haven’t finished Sonic Frontiers yet - sure hope nothing bad happens to our new melancholy girl character closely tied to her debut game’s story and themes ..!

[anime-lover-forever-1127]

Saiyan Mates {Son Goku} - 2. Stretching

Stretching

*****

Disclaimer - (Cause fanfiction is tricky ground and I hope not to offend the creator of the original story and get sued)

I do not own "Dragon Ball", it belongs to its original creator Akira Toriyama. This is only a fanfiction that I was inspired to write by the original work. Please support the official release. Most of the media - such as the art and illustrations, gifs, video's, etc. used in this fanfiction - are from the web. Thus, most of them aren't mine (because I really, really can't draw) unless mentioned. To fit the story, images are also edited by various apps and websites. So they aren't mine, just edited.

Also if you own a picture or Video that I found online, and you either want your name added, or me to take it down. Please contact me and we can talk it out. P.s. I also ask that you do not copy my work and publish it onto any other website.

If you're gonna use my idea, please ask me (If you ask nicely, I for sure, will agree). If I don't contact you within a week, then just assume I'm giving you the all clear and go for it. Just remember to credit me.

I will be writing out scenes even if my Oc isn't in them. As long as she's mentioned, or influencing the characters in some way. Or maybe because it influences the story. This may seem a bit annoying. But that's just how I write. I like to embed my characters into the story line. Because of this, most of the dialogue/scenes will come from the original work.

Warnings: Spoilers for Dragon Ball Z episode 11, Mentions of killing and death, Mates, Cursing, Violence

*****

Today's Special (Curse word involved)

"You want a whore, buy one.

You want a queen, earn her."

~ Cersei Lannister

*****

{Atena P.O.V.}

I woke up with a yawn, my eyes fluttering open. I was already expecting this. Sleeping gases never worked on me for too long, so I always needed two doses, versus Vegita and Nappa's one dose.

I turned to stare out the pod's only window and grin as I saw a planet in the distance. I rubbed my stiff neck, hmm, maybe stretching my body would help a bit.

I turned on my communication device, "Nappa, Vegeta! Get up!" I screamed as loud as I could.

I heard a groan from Vegeta, "God dammit Atena." He cursed as he woke up.

I smirked, "You up or-"

"I'm up!" He growled out. "But that idiot clearly isn't. Nappa, wake up!" He commanded.

The older man grumbled, "I'm awake. What's going on?" He asked, confused.

"Nothing much. But Atena wants to make a stop and stretch a bit, get some exercise." At this point, Vegeta didn't need his sister to tell him what was on her mind. He saw the planet and knew what she had wanted instantly. "Planet Arlia is right over there. Maybe we could sell it for a nice price."

I nodded, "I'm pretty sure that the party from Araclion is looking to expand. They'd be more than happy to pay a pretty penny for Arlia."

"That sounds good." Nappa agreed, turning on the lights on his space pod. "I hope these Arlians know how to fight. We haven't had any real competition since I can remember."

We then set a course for Arlia. Once we had entered the planet's gravity, we let it pull us down. And landed with a bang.

I climbed out of my pod, only to stare at a complete waste land with broken ruins scattered around.

"Aww man, what a mess. Not much is there." said Nappa from behind me.

"Obviously not." My brother rolled his eyes. "Let's have a look around shall we."

I sighed, "Sure, nothing better to do."

I watched Nappa pat a pillar lightly, only for it to crumble upon impact. "Are you sure you can get a high price for this planet?" He asked me.

"Doubt it." Vegeta answers.

But I shook my head, "On the contrary. As boring as this run down planet is, it's actually a selling point. We could actually charge more on the basis that the people buying it wouldn't need to tear anything down."

"Let's check around a little longer." Says Vegeta.

Our scouter then begins beeping as the ground near us bursts open and two large, blue caterpillar-like creatures attack us. My eyes zone in on their heads, Where two smaller aliens appear to be riding them.

"You are trespassing on Arlian territory." One of them says to us.

"Make one move and we'll blast ya." The other adds. "It was a good day to go hunting after all."

"Let's give them a proper welcome." His friend snickered.

I stare at the two creatures, unimpressed. I turned to my brother, "A proper welcome would be at least 1000 men, for each of us."

My brother rolls his eyes, "Oh please, just look at them. They'd need 10,000 just to land an attack."

"Let's just blast them." Nappa suggests.

"Eassy." Vegeta commands him.

"Surrender peacefully or face the consequences." One of them threatens.

"No." The Saiyan prince answers.

The bug looks surprised, I think at least. It then quickly says, "You left us no choice. Prepare to be destroyed then!" It fires a red beam from his mouth?... I think.

I can see it hit me, but don't feel a thing. The only trace it leaves is the dust that kicks up from the ground.

"That's the end of them." I can hear one of them say.

I let out a yawn, as the other two gasp to see us continuing to stand in front of them as if nothing had happened.

"Surrender at once!" They shout.

"Yeah! Make me!" Nappa screams back.

'Nappa. Surrender to them.' My brother commands us, through the familia bond.

I stare at him, not amused. 'Come one, let's have some fun, we're here.' He tells me.

I sigh, relenting. 'Fine. I'll play along with your little game. But if this ends up another stupid, wimpy male trying to mate with me, your going to owe me. BIG TIME!'

We extend our wrists forward as the two bug-like aliens begin rejoicing, "Yeah, they're giving up."

"I guess we're too much for them." His partner adds.

"They sure are ugly."

"But they'll be good entertainment for the king. Especially the women." One of them says, cuffing my wrists.

I feel my eyebrow twitch at the comment, 'Screw you Vegeta!' I curse through the link.

*****

I yawed in bordem as we were carried in a cage, pulled by the large insects most likely towards where their king is. 'Well if he's a king, he should at least have some guards.' I told the other two.

'That's exactly what I'm hoping for.' My brother responds.

As were herded into a jail cell, the man cackles, "You should be glad to know your cell doesn't have any rate. The prisoners ate them all."

"Oh, joy." I comment drily.

"Why you!" The bug-like creature shouts.

"Wait!" His friend pulls him back. "You know the king prefers his women to be mark free."

"Remind me to get that guy." Nappa growls.

"Sure." I shrug. "But the king's mine." After the sexist comments I can just feel coming my way, I'm deserve to be the one to end that pathetic life, so I'm calling dibs.

"Look at those aliens!" I hear from my left.

"They sure are ugly."

"Maybe they think we're the ugly ones." Another adds.

"Speak for yourself." His friend grunts back.

"Be quiet all of you. It doesn't matter what they look like. They're stuck in here just like the rest of us." One with a golden bangle on his arm chastises the rest of the group. "They're just more victims of that tyrant king. Locked away and left to rot." he says, rubbing his arm.

Yeah buddy, there's no way I'm pulling the pin on that grenade.

But, apparently, I didn't need to. "I'm afraid you visitors have come at a bad time. The new king of Arlia is very ruthless. He uses the prisoners for his own amusement. He even went as far as to steal my wife Lemlia on the day we were to be married. So you can imagine the pain I feel."

I scoffed, "So he's married and handsy. Isn't he the complete package."

I heard footsteps and turned my attention to two females of the race walking towards the cell holding something... pink?

ARE THOSE FRILLS?!

WHO THE HELL USES THAT MUCH LACE?!

Yeah, hell no!

I turn to my brother, "I'm done." And with that, I blast the cell bars open with an energy blast.

The guards instantly begin filling in, only to be met with the same fate as the cell blasts.

"Couldn't leave any for us?" My brother raises an eyebrow.

"Oh come on. Perhaps the ones upstairs may be stronger, though I doubt it." I suggest.

We walk upstairs and to the loudest room in time to hear the king calling for us.

"Don't put yourself out." says Vegeta, "We're already here."

"What's the meaning of this? Why don't these prisoners have an armed escort? And why is that female dressed in such a manner?"

"Dressed? You mean that pink monstrosity? Yeah, you wouldn't catch my dead body in that!" I scoffed.

"I don't know my sire." The alien next to him answered. "No orders were sent to the dungeon."

"Your guards met with an unfortunate accident." Vegeta answered.

"How dare you?"the king shouted, "Soon it will be your turn to be met with an unfortunate accident!" He screams at my brother, and then turns to me. "And you! You should be honoured that I even considered you."

I raised an eyebrow, "Oh please. You aren't even strong enough to be considered my pet, let alone my mate."

Please, as if I ever consider a man like him. He looked like he wouldn't even be able to pin me down. As a Saiyan it was in my natural instincts to desire a strong mate. My true mate may have died on our planet. But that doesn't mean I'd ever even think of having a child with such a weakling.

The man on the throne growls before turning to the cotton candy like women to his right. "You may not want to watch this my dear."

I sighed in exasperation and put a hand on my hip, "Yeah, sure. Tell her to turn away after you were just talking about doing things with another women, you disgusting pig."

"Why you! My guards shall make short work off this repulsive creatures."

"Really?" My brother asks in mock surprise.

"Ah, let's see." The man nodes, tapping his finger. "Yes, we'll test the big one with the shiny head against our champion in combat. The little one may go next, and we'll save the women for last. Now teach them a lesson."

A large alien from behind us then jumped at Nappa, only for Vegeta to shoot a line of energy blast out of his index finger and middle finger. Blasting his head clean off, and killing him instantly.

"Huh? I guess that makes you the new champion Vegeta." Nappa comments.

My brother chuckles only for the king, still calmly counter with. "Not bad. But 10 of our finest warriors have already mastered techniques using energy just like yours."

"They have?" Vegeta asks, turning around, "Interesting. We'd like to fight them."

I nod, "Who knows. Maybe I'll finally get to stretch a bit."

"Ready?" The saiyan prince asks.

The king let out a cry of outrage, "I'll see you suffer for your insolence!"

"Yeah, whatever." Nappa responded, "Can we get on with this already."

"Ah, how dare you!"

I chuckled, "Easy, you just need to spit out the words."

His 'elite' guards became to surround us, and fire off a red energy blast from their mouths in unison.

I touched the small sparks that were left behind. "How weak." I sighed.

"Was that it? It felt real good. It was refreshing." Vegeta antagonised them.

"Oh. I'll make you pay." The king growled. "If you think you can just walk out of here. You're sadly mistaken."

"You know what's funny, Vegeta?" I turned to my brother. "He keeps saying 'I' as if he's going to be the one fighting. It's hilarious."

"Guards! Attack! Destroy them!"

I sighed, "All right. Play times over." I created a circle of energy around me, and then expanded it outward. Then, when it was at the feet of the men, I shot the bright ring of energy upward, slicing off various parts of the aliens. Killing them.

"Aww come on Antenna. Couldn't you have left any for us." Nappa complained.

"What's the point?" I asked, rolling my eyes. "They're all weak."

"Open the gates!" The king commanded in fear.

I then began to hear gears turning and a section of the ground in front of us open. And from it, a large brown insect rose.

"So it's the giant bug from the ground trick?" My brother scoffed.

I shrugged, "I personally liked the giant rat a little better. It's screams were surprisingly nice."

"You need to destroy these creatures. They're bad. Very, very bad!" The king ordered the giant beast pointing at us."

"That's it!" I growl. "I'm done." I walked over to the king, startling him. "Please die." I smile at him kindly, before flicking his forehead with my index finger, and sending his head flying off his body.

"We're bad?" Nappa asks.

"Well a little." Vegeta answers.

"Correction." I challenge, "We're bad people, but great Saiyan's." I pretend to wipe a tear from my eye, "Oh how proud daddy must be."

Vegeta scoffs, "Daddy's girl."

I smirk, "Oh please, your just jealous that I was the favourite."

The large insect takes a swipe at us, only for us to jump up, like some kind of game of skip rope.

Nappa lands on some steps, and the giant bug gives chase.

"Lucky." I pout. "The only thing maybe worth fighting."

It then tries to lunge for Vegeta, only to miss and lose his balance, crashing onto the ground.

It begins shooting lasers at us, at which point we begin flying around.

"Hey ugly!" Nappa calls it. It thrusts a fist at the bald man, only for Nappa to grab the claw.

The bug begins the whimper as Nappa pulls his claw right out.

The creature makes a desperate attempt to capture him in his hands, only for Nappa to jump away at the last second.

"Hey! I got one more little surprise for you." Nappa then throws an energy ball straight at it, blowing him up.

The remaining aliens began crawling out, and at that point I checked out. "See yeah. I'm going back to sleep." With that I enter my pod, and once again set the coordinates for Earth. Only for once again my inner beast begins crawling around in my mind.

'We'll get some action soon." I tell her, figuring she was just feeling caged. I only hear her mutter something about mate.... before the sleeping gas kicks in, and I fall asleep.

*****

There's an Easter egg up there, did anyone spot it?

Heads up, there will definitely be Chi-Chi bashing. For all of you who like her, sorry. But it had to be done for the sake of the story. Remember, this is a fanfiction, so will by amplifying all her flaws by like 50, which can make anyone seem bad. So don't hate on me, the story, or the real Chi-Chi (and she tries her best in her situation). Because this is just a fanfiction.

Also someone pointed out to me that I accidentally wrote Vegeta's name with an 'i', as Vegita, a couple times. So sorry for that guys. And thanks for pointing that out, I'll try my best not to make that mistake again

Another thing I will be changing is - as the story progresses, Goku's saiyan instincts will help sharpen his mind, and his other senses. So smarter, and slightly darker and possessive Goku.

You can read the other chapters of this story (in order) on Wattpad, Quotev, Fanfiction.Net, Ao3, or Webnovel - Under the username Animeloverforever1127 (Under the same title of course). Or you could shuffle around my tumbler, (I’ll try to keep my tags constant) but I’d go with the first - just seems like a lot less work.

[multiversal-archive]

((Hello guys, I have some hot fuckin’ tea, and it’s about Yamcha. Come join the tea party and take a sip, babes.

Alright, so for context, there was conversation on @dragon-ball-meta [sorry if you think it’s weird to be tagged in a random rp blog’s post I will delete it from the post if you want me to-] about the potential of a pairing between Android Eighteen and Yamcha, the majority  agreeing that the pairing really didn’t make a lot of sense. No big deal, right?

Then comes one user, I will not name them because I don’t want to turn this into a witch hunt, who basically argued “IT DOESN’T WORK BECAUSE YAMCHA IS SEXIST TRASH”

And it. Really annoyed me, you know? Especially since there seems to be this trend of shitting on Yamcha for dumb or made up reasons.

And if you know me, you know that I can’t stand people shitting on him and Krillin.

Now, Dragon Ball Meta has done a good job in rebutting against their arguments, but I wish to make a response of my own, since this character assassination has been going on for years, and I think it’s time to stop.

Fuck your memes, the only valid Yamcha meme anymore is Yamcha juggling turtle shells.

Now before I start, I’d like to preface a few things.

First, no, I do not ship Eighteen and Yamcha. Not only because of the context that Dragon Ball Meta has pointed out, but because their general characters would really make the ship make no sense. Yamcha’s fear of girls would really not mesh well with Eighteen’s ‘spit it out’ kinda attitude. Not to mention, as much as I like Bulcha, Bulma is proof that bossy women just aren’t the best match for Yamcha. He’s too passive to make the relationship work. Yamcha is so afraid of getting dumped that he just nervously accepts that she’s right, and sometimes your partner needs to be told that they’re wrong. And while Eighteen is quieter, she’s kinda bossy too. So no, I don’t see this ship working, with or without Krillin.

Second, just so there’s no mistake, no, this is not me arguing against Dragon Ball Meta. I might elaborate, or even correct him on a few things on the subject, but in general, I agree with his assessment of Yamcha’s character. This is a response to one of the users that reblogged his post. Please do not think for a second I’m trying to start beef or anything.

Also, the person will not be name dropped because one, again, no witch hunt, and two, this is unfortunately an opinion of Yamcha that the majority of the fanbase seems to hold. So I will be arguing them all to fuck.

And if you find out who it is by going to DBM’s blog, do not, I repeat, do not harass them. If you do, I will block you. No exceptions! I don’t care if you’re following me, I don’t care if you like my writing and my characterization, I don’t even care if we’re mutuals. If you harass someone over works of fiction, you’re fucking dead to me.

Third, I know that being a Yamcha roleplayer might make me biased, but believe me, in order to write for this character, I had to do a fuck ton of research, especially since I’m actually relatively new to the series [I fuckin started binge watching it last year from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Super, still debating on watching GT], reading up on anything that I missed so that I can stay as true to his character as possible.

That being said, the research I’ve done on this series and this character is why I think the notion of Yamcha being sexist, a cheater, etc. is erroneous.

Now, Let’s begin.

You really don’t bring up a lot of points, your main ones being one, he sees girls as objects and not people, and two, he cheated on Bulma [ah that classic misconception among fans], So I will shoot them down one at a time.

One; You claim that Yamcha is sexist, that he sees girls as objects and things to be exploited.

... When?

No, I mean it, give me one fucking example. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you, as the one making the argument. I’ll even provide links that let you view the mangas and animes for free so you can point me to one manga panel, one episode with the time that it happens. Give me one example, and I might, might, take that claim seriously.

You also say that he feels justified in his fear and distrust of women, so he’s sexist.

Uhm....? No??? You’re right that he’s afraid of women, but distrustful??? The fuck did that come from?

Oh, but you might zone in on the fear and be like, “That’s proof enough that he’s sexist!”

Uuuuuhhhhh no.

See, fear can mean different things depending on what it’s bred by. With things such as homophobia, transphobia, and, yes, sexism, those are fears bred by hate.

In Yamcha’s case, it’s clear that that’s not his case of fear. Not only does he express his want to get over his fear so he can talk to a girl without freezing up or being a blabbering mess, hence his motivation for trying to steal the Dragon Balls from Goku and the others, but the other characters’ outright point out that he’s shy. On numerous occasions. Usually by Bulma, but still.

Not to mention that usually his reactions to being around a girl or being flirted with by one, it’s usually very anxious, leaving me to believe that he’s got some sort of social anxiety going on.

If you need proof, look no further than episode six of Dragon Ball “Keep an Eye on the Dragon Balls”, where it shows various instances of Yamcha going into panic attacks over Bulma, even going into an outright catatonic state when he realizes he accidentally grabbed Bulma’s boob. [which also discredits the notion of Yamcha seeing girls like objects, as he’s constantly horrified of seeing and touching a naked girl. If he saw girls as objects, he would have been creeping on her all to hell.]

The only reason he got over his fear with Bulma is because her safety was in jeopardy, and he had to put his fear aside to protect her. Once again, this discredits the idea of him seeing women as beneath him, as well as your other point, which I will get to in a while.

“But why is he only like that with girls?” you might ask. Well, not only is there several real life examples of boys being too shy around girls and feeling more at home with talking to boys, Yamcha has expressed wanting to get married one day. And as someone with social anxiety myself, I do find it very hard to approach people IRL because I’m afraid of being judged, if it makes sense. So it’s very easy to argue that the same could apply to Yamcha, just with girls his age.

Two; Your argument is that he cheated on Bulma and that in general, any ship with him would be abusive.

Uhm??? The only source for the cheating issue was Trunks, who got it from his mother... Who’s known to misunderstand situations Yamcha finds himself in as him cheating. Who’s known to get jealous if a girl shows interest in him, not him showing interest in the girl, but the girl showing interest in him.

Not to mention, does this look like someone that’s willing to cheat?

Because to me this looks more like someone that takes his relationship with Bulma seriously and wants to take it further. And remember, the only prompting was Goku telling Bulma to “take care of the baby” with no context.

Oh, also here’s the link to the manga page so you know I’m not bullshitting.

Oh, what’s that? You’re going to bring up the episode in Dragon Ball Z where it shows him as a baseball player? Where not only were they broken up at the time when he asked someone to go on a date with him and was talking with another girl, but the entire episode was also filler? Once again, think back to his shyness. Even Toriyama confirmed that it’s always going to be there.

“Oh but then you’ll have to say all the fun stuff like Chichi making Goku learn to drive and Yamcha, Tien, and Chiaotzu kicking the Ginyu Force’s ass.” you may say.

I mean. Yeah. It’s not canon. But unless it’s deconfirmed by Toriyama himself or doesn’t contradict established characterization, then we can still imagine that they happened. Most of the filler are things happening during timeskips anyways, or just don’t happen during the main story, so it’s really up to the imagination what all happened, and Toei did just that.

You also claim that Yamcha behaves like a fuckboi, to which I have to say bitch where?

Yeah, he was a bit annoyed that Bulma had Vegeta’s child, but that was never, I repeat, never directed at Bulma, or Trunks for that matter. In fact, by the looks of it, he was helping Bulma take care of him. It’s quite clearly directed at Vegeta.

Why?

Simply put, Yamcha’s ultimate goal was to settle down and start a family. And not only does Vegeta do that, with his ex no less, but he also just... Completely ignores them.

Can you imagine how infuriating that is, not even flaunting something they have that you don’t, but completely ignoring it like it’s nothing.

Vegeta had started this family, the family that could have been Yamcha’s, and he wasn’t even willing to take responsibility for it.

Now I’m not trying to imply that Yamcha was owed anything or that Bulma owed anyone anything. Hell, I don’t think Yamcha thought that either. I’m just trying to illustrate his mindset.

And you know what? After the Cell Games Saga, he stopped being cross with Vegeta. He’s still friendly with Bulma and Trunks, and he’s even friendly with Vegeta. Hell, when Bulla was born, he was excited to meet her.

Pretty sure if he were a fuckboy, he’d be trying to win Bulma back.

But no, he’s content with being friends with Bulma and her family. Because, at least I think, he cares about what she wants and what makes her happy. I think so long as she’s happy with what she has, then he’s happy too.

Does that sound like a fuckboy to you?

“Well then why did they break up? Are you saying Bulma did something wrong?”

No.

Just like in real life, sometimes break ups don’t happen because one slighted the other.

Sometimes things just don’t work out.

Think about it, throughout the series, up until the Android Arc, their relationship has been on and off, usually Bulma accusing him of cheating. And like I pointed out earlier in the post, Yamcha is just too passive to make the relationship work. If he were more assertive and willing to stand his ground and assure her that no, he’s not cheating, then maybe it would have had a better chance of working. 

I think at this point, the healthiest thing for them was that they stopped being in this relationship. For good.

And if their break up was really the result of one of them wronging each other, they would not still be friends.

So, can we end this character assassination? It’s been going on for yeas, and it needs to stop. Same with Krillin’s character assassination.

The memes may have been funny once upon a time, but they’re getting old now. And people are starting to view them as canon.

And that’s it for my tea. If you have something you wish to add or to correct me on, please be sure to share your thoughts. I’d love to know. ^^

Sorry that this is so long and probably all over the place holy fuck-))

[bisexual-trunks]

Thoughts on the Broly movie, spoilers under the cut!

The fight animation was just. So good. Soooooo gooooooood.

So was the music, too. I especially liked what was playing during Broly's initial transformation.

Retcons. Retcons everywhere.

Not mad at it, though.

And I'm dumb/don't pay attention, but I've honestly been pronouncing Gine's name as "jean" this whole time. Oops.

Lol about Bulma's wish, she looks as young in Super as she did in the original Dragon Ball.

Bigger lol at Frieza's wish. Just in general.

I'll spare you a rant on sexist media tropes, but White Knight Broly was not something I expected. I don't hate it though. Broly drinks his respect women juice.

I know we all love Cheelai, but I ended up liking Lemo a lot more than I expected! They're both so good and supportive of Broly!

Anyone else notice the music chanting "Gogeta" and "Go Broly Go" over and over again during that fight? Cuz I was sitting right next to that speaker and it was all I could hear. Sit in the middle of the theater, kids.

I think the only real beef I had with the movie was Paragus's death? Not the way he died, I thought that was clever (ignoring the fact that Frieza apparently gave up on wanting to kill Goku himself but w/e) but like. Where was the buildup. The scene development. Some foreshadowing. At least Frieza's voice afterward was hilarious.

Also the fact that they're really struggling to keep anyone who isn't Goku/Vegeta/Frieza relevant. Even Beerus was reduced to playing babysitter.

"Call me Kakarot." I mean I know why but why

(Turns out any issues I have with the movie are my own storytelling pet peeves, ignore me ✌)

But honestly, i loved it so much and it had the exact ending I was hoping for. Broly's not a bad guy! He and his new friends are still alive!! Goku might befriend him yet!! I love it 👌

[aotopmha]

Dragon Ball Minus Thoughts

Firstly, I want to say that I actually don’t share much of the hatred for Minus that many fans seem to. At the very least I think the very core of Goku’s character is in tact - he’s still a low class Saiyan. The underdog, so to say, and at the very least the motivation to be sent to Earth is survival as opposed to conquest which is (or could be when given better execution) interesting in it’s own right. But… that’s only one part of what makes Goku interesting to me.

So, here’s the points that kind of destroy a lot of the pathos behind Goku's character and basically much of the point of the Saiyan saga.

1) Introducing Gine as this demure “nice” Saiyan implies that Goku is nice because he is related to her, not because he bumped his head and then met cool people who changed him; equally Raditz is “bad” because he’s more like his father. Even if the bump still happened, that's what the framing and intention behind Gine’s character seems to be. I think it basically says Goku was always meant to be nice whether he bumped his head or not because "he got this nature from his mother". Even more so, she “changed" Bardock by being nice, which is the most boring and sexist clichès you could find for this kind of story, *especially* if you don't offer any elaboration. *Why* is she so unconditionally nice despite Saiyans not being known to be that? *How* did she change Bardock? Krillin's and 18's relationship has a similar basis, but we actually know why both characters care for each other *besides* one of them "being nice" and the shortness of the story actually isn't much of an excuse considering you can just do that in a few lines.

Of course Gine’s a housewife stereotype among a warrior race because we gotta make those Chichi/Goku parallels, too. Because, again, the kid really has to be like the parent. (I need to clarify that I think Chichi is more complex than that, which is why her character actually doesn't bother me, she's fine for a minor mom character/comedic character, she's not intended to be a main character.)

Now, if Goku had *character aspects* of his parents, that would be neat, but Gine is literally just a “nice wife/mom”. There's no mention of the struggle brought up in extra interviews in the story itself - the idea that those who are weaker are used as support and maybe the potential humiliation of that, which would actually be interesting, but nothing is actually done with that. Actually mentioning that as a struggle would've made Gine automatically more interesting. She's also apparently an outcast, but nothing is done with that inside the story itself. This is all from extra notes.

2) The other details that tell us the effect of the bump on Goku's head has been effectively rendered null, whether he had it or not, are a) Since he’s gone from the planet, Raditz only “thought” Goku was sent to conquer Earth when this story says that in truth Bardock and Gine sent him there to *protect* him and b) Goku is completely docile before he is sent off. He’s effectively a innocent boy and imagining him suddenly acting violent with Grandpa Gohan is jarring and doesn’t fit - it’s all in the framing. He’s clearly drawn as a toddler, not a baby, which only solidifies this is probably a retcon. Yes, he spent three years in a tank so he is probably just about as advanced in terms of *thinking* as a toddler and there’s the whole brainwashing device established in-series (I think it’s mostly played up in anime filler though), but in *this* story this is never mentioned and Gine and Bardock just talk about how Earth would be a safe environment for him and tell him to survive. Gine just worries about his safety. No mention of a *intended* mission or anything. So Raditz's intention of a rite of passage is supposed to be a "misunderstanding" because that's not what Bardock and Gine intended for Goku to do. They straight-up tell him not to look at the moon. This essentially changes nothing because Raditz grew up together with Vegeta and Nappa who emphasized "being a Saiyan", but it's the principle of the thing that bothers me, the idea itself. Again, turns out Goku's parents were actually really good parents who actually don't care about conquest as much as other Saiyans and just want their kids to be alive and well with no real reason given.

So basically the idea of a member of violent warrior race becoming a protector of the Earth by complete chance (along with having kind friends/teachers) is kind of gone. It makes Goku much more like a Japanese Superman - an alien that happens to become the protector of Earth, which I find a more boring idea. Well, at least he’s not original English Dub Goku yet, since, as said, this is just one part of his character. The problem is not that he's *completely* like Superman, rather *more like him*. Their individual character struggles and arcs are still pretty different.

3) Which leads me to Bardock. Yes, Bardock is a warrior, but this aspect of his character is massively downplayed and framed with no impact whatsoever. It’s just a random side detail in this story, not any significant part of his character like it’s established to be for Saiyans, again the whole Gine “changing him” detail takes away anything that could’ve made him an actual interesting character. It’s all about the presentation of the whole thing to me - if he'd be shown to be a Saiyan that does Freeza's dirty work and just happens to be smart and care for his family for survival purposes, I'd be much more down with it, but by the end of the chapter, he's straight up acting like a stereotypical good dad, which is really wierd for what we know about the Saiyans. It really feels like it's saying "Look Goku's dad is such a good guy compared to these other Saiyans", which is what I personally mean by this story making Goku more "special". He's NOT just another Saiyan because it's shown that his parents are much "nicer" than usual. Again, interview material confirms familiar bonds aren't as strong with Saiyans and Vegeta only has a better knowledge about them because the royal family had the priority of having a successor. It makes basically no sense for Gine and Bardock and Minus offers no explanation for this.

Now there are a few neat things about this story I like - the detail about Goku being incubated for 3 years is interesting because it actually does somewhat tie into the warrior nature of the Saiyans. They are warriors, so there is probably not much time to take care of the kids, so they grow them in tubes probably till they are old enough to fend for themselves in terms of bodily strength. Which is a concept that has some story potential when looking at the upcoming movie, especially.

I also like the detail that not all Saiyans probably made it to Planet Vegeta before Freeza destroyed it. I see people complaining all the time that there several surviving Saiyans in the movies, but it makes sense to me more could’ve survived if they’re all spread out across the universe conquering planets, but as established in Minus (and the series) Freeza isn't very patient - at least not prior to the ToP, so he destroys the planet when enough of them arrive. Again, maybe Broly from the upcoming movie has a story related to that idea?

As said at the start, I also like the survival theme - Goku was sent off with the idea that he should survive. If this could’ve been the center of the story, I’d probably even straight-up liked it because it fits well with the primal nature of the Saiyans and makes them more human without painting a whole race as special good guys vs. murderers because that’s just not how whole races actually work. It’s impossible every member of a race is a bloodthirsty conquerer OR a completely good guy. It *should* be more nuanced than that.

But these details just don’t make up for all the stuff I don’t like.

I’ve always thought the “bump on the head” *idea* itself was pretty fanfiction-y and forced (should’ve just been that Grandpa Gohan’s teachings and patience eventually got through to Goku), but at least it still ultimately made Goku pretty interesting in a way. It's still used to illustrate that given the circumstances, people could turn out to be much different. It's not just the bump on the head that changed Goku, it's the people he interacted with him and I think with the implications Minus has, that idea is gone/massively downplayed. We don't actually know whether the intention was to retcon the story here, but the way stuff is framed and shown, it really feels that way to me.

So, to summarize, whether the bump actually happened (or whether it was a retcon) *doesn't matter* - the problem I have is that it’s the principle of Goku's story that changed not what the exact plot details are surrounding that change. It has a thematic change I don't like. Goku is now a unusually kind-hearted Saiyan because his mom is a special kind-hearted Saiyan. The Saiyan parts of him are just from his dad - it doesn't imply he has no Saiyan traits, just that the good parts were inherited via blood, not developed through circumstances in his life. He was not sent to Earth to conquer it, but out of the love of his parents to survive, which I think in itself isn’t something too awful, it's just the presentation that bothers me, only aided by the implications about how Raditz and the whole "kill people as a rite of passage" idea is coloured differently because of this.

I actually think something really good could be made out of this if the right aspects would be focused on and right framing would be used. Like, even removing the "don't look at the moon" line and giving a more serious expression to Bardock at the end would've made this better.

The whole hard work vs. natural strength/low class vs. high class warrior idea of the Saiyan saga also still stands because at least the story doesn’t make Goku Saiyan royalty or super strong at birth or something like that, but that's it.

I’m also pretty sure Toriyama didn’t even think much about the implications some of these story decisions have on the story as a whole. This whole thing just sort of feels like a rushed plot summary, a “cute surprise” so to say (look how cute and caring his parents are!), instead of attempting to actually do a proper story, which is an odd choice considering this is about the protagonist of the story.

I hope it’s adjusted in the movie to make it more interesting because Toriyama retcons his stuff all the time, but I’m not feeling very optimistic about that. Maybe some elaboration could make this story better, as well?

Again, we don't know how much of this was actually intended to be a retcon. I think if we go by the original story, several of the events that happen would feel really forced/kinda wierd. Any kind of possible interesting details are actually in the side materials like interviews, but you shouldn't be obligated to read interviews to get the full picture of a story. The interview stuff I brought up is just that... extra stuff to bolster my points.

A good storyteller should make a story that stands as a cohesive whole on it's own and makes it's intentions concrete and clear instead of being a guessing game, thus, to me Minus has some interesting details, but isn't very good as a whole on it's own.

We'll see what the movie does with it, I guess.

[dragon-ball-meta]

I'm sorry for the essay (maybe). I never expect to have so many thoughts on DB because I think it's a pretty simple and self-explanatory story. But yeah, my main point was that because romance isn't the main focus, people have to fill in the blanks and more often than not, they do it by taking scenes out of context or not really "looking" at them. It happens with other elements of the series, too, actually. Like, Goku isn't as selfish as people think. (c)

(c) Yeah, he gave Cell the Senzu, but he had no bad intentions with it, he simply had too much faith in Gohan. He spared Piccolo because Kami would've died. Freeza he toyed with, but ultimately decided to kill. Vegeta is the only real selfish one if you look at it from a in-the-moment perspective. We didn't know what he would do. There's always a nuance in there to make sure he's not completely selfish, but... it's also part of his character. Anyway. This is evolving into another essay orz sorry

Hey first off, do not apologize. That essay comment was a joke, nothing more, and I’m glad that this series still stokes your curiosity. That’s never not a good thing.Secondly, yes. Many “fans” of this series miss the forest for the trees and see it merely as a bunch of shirtless screaming guys and hot women to make porn out of. It’s unfortunate, and a perception I want to change. But sadly, even those who are willing to look deeper have the same problem. They only see what they want to see in specific areas of the series itself while often writing off, dismissing, or selectively interpreting in others. Goku’s decisions are especially spun in an almost-always negative light by the fans to an almost ridiculous degree, in part because he was originally perceived by Western fans as the “good guy”, and therefore must be deconstructed to be interesting or have a personality. He was a hero, but a “terrible father”, for example. And yes, I’ve seen some downright silly takes on couples too; Bulma and Vegeta are super romantic, Chi-Chi is an abusive wife and parent, Krillin and 18 is “literally pedophilia” or “sexist”, and so on.It’s silly but again, that’s why I do what I do.

[tigerlover16-uk]

You know, watching the funimation Dragon Ball dub with the subs for the Japanese version on... I notice that the dub had an occasional habit of adding in a bit of casual sexism to some of it’s dialogue.

Like, in the episode where Goku fights Chichi, at one point Goku stops to ask Krillin and Yamcha what marriage is. In the Japanese version, Krillin is shown to be kind of jealous of Goku here. Which makes perfect sense for his character, considering he’s always been shown from his first appearance to be more interested in girls than Goku and we later learn that getting married is a life goal for him.

In the dub though? Krillin basically replied “To put it simply, it means your life is over!” Which is not only very out of character for him to say, but feels like an old misogynistic view on marriage.

At one point in Z during the episode where Future Trunks kills Frieza, before that happens we have a scene of the Z fighters slowly making their way to the battlefield. Vegeta is initially bemused at Bulma coming along, but when she makes it clear that yes she’s going because she wants to see Frieza and how things go down, Vegeta takes a moment to think about how he actually respects Bulma for her sheer guts. It’s probably one of the first hints that he’s starting to become attracted to her...

In the dub, he basically calls her a stupid woman for insisting on coming along.

Later on when everyone’s leaving and Goku tells Bulma to look after that baby (Kind of a slip up on his part since no-one knows Trunks is Bulma’s future son yes), Yamcha pipes up, looking kind of flustered, and suggests that he thought Goku meant he and Bulma should get married. It’s actually really cute and shows how enthusiastic Yamcha was about his relationship with Bulma then.

The dub changes the dialogue a bit to make Yamcha sound a lot ruder though, ending with a comment about how Bulma’s “Not getting any younger! Ha ha”

I’d edit the clips together with the Japanese subs to show... but I don’t know how to do that. But if you have the dvd’s with subtitled options, go look at those scenes and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

I think this sort of thing is why people complain about the dub fundamentally changing the story and characters. For the most part translations are pretty fine and accurate, but when you really examine it the whole dub is littered with moments like those that are really off and out of character. And these examples honestly come off as more sexist than in the original, too.

And this isn’t me trying to bash the dub or anything, I’m not that kind of fan, I LIKE the dub and prefer the cast to the original Japanese. But people do have a point in saying it doesn’t hold up or it has problems, say whatever you want about Kai but it is BY FAR a better and more accurate translation.

[duhragonball]

brunilopex replied to your post “Seriously, the only other reasons I can think of not to like Caulifla...”

So you're saying there might be reasons other than every single one being a sexist homophobic asshole?

Stupid reasons that shouldn’t count, yeah. 

What I’m trying to say here is that nobody just comes out and admits they’re being prejudiced.   They try to gussy it up with a lot of “facts” to make it seem like a perfectly justified opinion.  

I used to see this all the time back when it was just the idea of a female Super Saiyan.    Instead of admitting that it was a missed opportunity, fans would try to explain why it was utterly impossible.    “Oh, well they can’t get angry enough,” like that’s the end of the discussion.   And the dork who says that isn’t sexist, he’s just stating a biological fact (that he literally just made up.)  

I don’t know if Caulifla and Kale are really supposed to be gay or not, but when people get upset at the mere suggestion of them as a couple, it kind of raises a red flag, you know?  But they try to disguise it as some attempt to “remind” people about canon, like canon is some rigid set of laws governing the fandom.   Nobody gives a crap about canon until they have an axe to grind and they think the canon is on their side.   “Oh, I’m not a homophobe, I just like to go out of my way to insist to people that the canon says everyone in Dragon Ball is straight.”  Suuurrre.

It’s kind of weak how people complain that Caulifla learned to become a Super Saiyan “too easily”.   That’s like saying cars suck because they’re not as slow as bicycles.    Maybe Caulifla learned to become a Super Saiyan exactly right, and the only reason it was hard for anyone else was because they all sucked at it?   It took Vegeta five years to figure it out, and Caulifla picked it up in five minutes.   But I’m supposed to think he’s a badass and she’s a phony?  Nuts to that action.

So there’s a lot of excuses people use to justify their shitty opinions, but in the end I have a really hard time understanding how anyone could dislike Caulifla and Kale and still be fans of the franchise.  

[risingsouls]

[Alright. As promised, I'm going to hop on my bullshit and address someone who obviously has it out for GoChi and will stan Vegebul to their dying breath. The funny part is I wasn't their only target in seems. 😬😬

But the rest will be under the cut. This is all in regards to this post.

Here are the replies:

So let's take this piece by piece, and, for those of you who have been around a minute, you've probably seen my reasoning behind this opinion numerous times. But here goes nothing.

First, I want to hit this with a disclaimer I've said a million times: none of the relationships in DB are well written or executed. NONE. Vegebul and GoChi are the WORST offenders, too, in that order. However, imo, GoChi is more viable because the parties are actually willing to WORK for a relationship while the other one is tossed together for plot reasons and forced by breaking both characters into people they're not. But I'll get into that more later. Shitty writing is the crux of all of this at the end of the day.

Claim 1: "Vegeta and Bulma actually improved their relationship over time and have some good moments."

Improved is a strong word. The crux of this is they weren't compatible from the get go. The Buu Saga is the only place where their relationship is REMOTELY depicted realistically for them as strained and a marriage of convenience. They get along, but it's not this lovey dovey, out of character traditional or over the top love fans and Super depict. It makes sense for them. The only real improvement as far as viewing them as a couple goes is that they're more civil than they were. Otherwise, it's all contrived, forced bs, and that's especially the case in Super.

Claim 2: "Goku's and ChiChi's relationship has never been good and it never will, it has no redeeming qualities and they have nothing but arguing and abuse."

Yeah, GoChi is shitty. It's poorly handled by the writers from the beginning. But to say there are no redeeming qualities right after gassing up Vegebul? HA. HAHAHA. Besides that being a matter of opinion, there are plenty of moments in the series that show "redeeming" qualities for Goku and ChiChi, and they are shown to actually have a working relationship. They're shown to love each other. I won't get into the complexity of at least Goku's character here, but he loves his wife, and she loves him. They love their family and show it. And it's BELIEVABLE. Not some over the top bs shoved in our faces at every turn to make people like this clown not question the validity of their relationship.

Bringing up abuse is even more laughable without talking about how abusive Vegebul is. But go off I guess. I'll probably get to this more later.

Claim 3 (and maybe the funniest lol): "Who cares is Goku and ChiChi kiss/bang or not? That doesn't automatically make a couple better, their relationship is still trash."

This is a really funny defense when Vegebul literally started with them fucking and Vegeta knocking Bulma up. You're lying to yourself if you think they were put together out of romantic interest. They were made a couple for plot convenience and likely sexist beliefs about single mothers. 🤷‍♀️ So what's worse: two people who met as kids and maybe shouldn't have jumped into marriage like they did but can be seen to realistically come to form a relationship together because they have personalities that would allow for it or two people that fucked, made a baby, and were forced together because of it, when neither party should be able to stand the other in the first place by any stretch because they both have very combative personalities among other incompatibilities? This is not the ace of an argument you think it is in the context of these ships.

Claim 4 (paraphrased): GoChi has no chemistry, they have nothing in common, ChiChi just abuses Goku, etc.

Again, are you sure this is the argument you want to make to gas up Vegebul? Where do Vegeta and Bulma show they have chemistry? We never see them do anything but name call and argue (which is what you claim Goku and ChiChi do right????), and pointing to Super will get you nowhere with me. And again we bring up abuse. As I said, Vegeta and Bulma were constantly arguing and name-calling in the beginning. In the Buu Saga they were amicable at best, but they still weren't this perfect couple that everyone tries to make them out to be. I mean...Vegeta literally sold his soul without knowing he would maintain control, let alone free himself from it, and nearly killed Bulma while throwing a hissy fit about wanting to fight Goku. He was ready to give up EVERYTHING just for power and that fight, including his family. But yeah. Perfect, beautiful, loving couple.

And again, let's get into the abuse conversation. I'm not saying there isn't any in GoChi, but to say that Vegebul has no abuse is laughable. I'll get to that in the last claim.

Claim 5 (paraphrased): Vegeta and Bulma improve over time, Bulma is the reason Vegeta turned good, and their arguments are on equal footing.

Again, improve is objective because I personally don't see it. At least not in any believable capacity past the Buu Saga which is still, imo, not perfect or completely well-executed.

I can't stand the narrative of Vegeta turned good because of Bulma because it suggests he had no agency over his own change. You must be one of those people who define Vegeta's redeeming moment as his (failed) sacrifice against Majin Buu instead of the end of the Saga when he comes to terms with how he has lived his life and finally finds peace in admitting Goku is stronger than him. The idea that Vegeta settling down saved his life or made him a better person is, at best, only partially true. Saying this shit removes his agency, and reduces his character to "lol bad boy fell in love and changed!" when it's far more complex than that.

And their arguments are on equal footing in the regard that both Vegeta and Bulma have combative personalities and will, therefore, argue with each other, whereas Goku is more laid back and go with the flow so is less likely to argue with ChiChi? Again, is this supposed to be a good argument for claiming Vegebul is the better relationship? And what of the name-calling Vegeta and Bulma do? About how Vegeta was willing to let Bulma and Trunks DIE? How miserably he treated future Trunks who present Bulma still viewed and treated as her own son once she knew? How he obviously didn't really pay present Trunks much mind for the first 8 years of his life, whixh would BOTHER a loving mother that obviously wanted to keep Vegeta around FOR their son's benefit? And that's just the abuse on VEGETA'S side. Bulma is absolutely abusive, too, outside of name-calling and arguing. She manipulates Vegeta and everyone else to get her way. She yells and screams at Vegeta when he wants to train rather than do whatever the hell it is she wants at that moment, knowing full well what he is and isn't into. But she will do whatever SHE pleases regardless of his wishes, im sure.. There is only take and no give with Bulma when it comes to Vegeta. Not to mention how she constantly flirts with other men in front of him. All od this, too, is considered abuse. But since it doesn't fit your narrative, you're not going to talk about that right?

In conclusion: both of these relationships are dog shit. Both could and should be handled better if they should have even maintained these relationships at all. But to say that Vegebul is more believable than GoChi is the joke of the century in this fandom. Next, you'll tell me Vegeta is the better dad, too.

And look. Ship what you want. But let's all be honest about the ships we like/prefer.]

[mozillavulpix]

A question: considering that Dragon Ball Super has added two strong female Saiyans, and that despite the Internet hate their commercial reception is probably good enough (otherwise Toei wouldn't be doing three episodes with them), do you think we may see a female villain at some point? We have had Mai, Violet, 18 and Zangya but they're not at the same caliber as the respective male villains, and Towa is not a fighter.

The biggest issue with having a female villain is how to deal with having the male character defeat and possibly kill them. Even in fantasy worlds, it is still kind of uncomfortable sometimes to see a woman getting violently beaten by a man. Especially when it sort of sends the idea that the female was completely outclassed the entire time and really just needed to learn that. You know. Almost like saying “You were never a real fighter. (Possibly) Because you’re a woman.” Even if the potentially sexist undertones wouldn’t bring any controversy in the very different Japanese culture, it’s still kind of considered unsportsmanlike for a man to fight a woman.

Keep in mind, Mai is only fought in a robot (and still survives), Violet never fights on-screen, 18 is only fought by Vegeta and defeats him before Cell absorbs her, and Zangya specifically gets abruptly killed by Bojack near the end probably so they didn’t have to make Gohan cut her in half, too.

[frostbite883-archive]

DBM Bra hating

These comments won’t be in order. With that said..let’s do it to it.

Tregrenos

So, is it Hyukhyuks turn to eat a Senzu in the middle of the match?

#GetGudBra

Me:...I doubt that would happen seeing as that hulking monster never did carried senzu beans after it’s ‘birth’.

A Poverty-Stricken Antelope

@Tregrenos

Now I understand another reason why I hate Bra: she heals mid-match like a little bi***. She wouldn't last 10 seconds in a Dark Souls duel.

Me: So you say.

Itsarge (gamergater or former GGer) and snowflake exchanging some words with each other.

snowflake:

My view on Bra: She's an awkward character. Literally. She's an entitled princess of a Deity-God-Warrior and Bulma, so she's a overpowered brat with a genius level IQ, and obsessed with strength and being better than everyone, which makes her relationships very one-sided and binary. She literally divides the world up into people stronger than her and not stronger than her, and only acknowledges one person as legitimately stronger than her. No, seriously. It's a problem. Try writing like a tomboy teenage girl would talk, who's obsessed with beating everyone she comes across. At best it would come out as parody. It is hard to find that voice, and harder still to make it resonate with a predominately male audience, and yet harder STILL to do it within the confines of traditional shonen story-telling, from which DBZ is inspired. So Salagir took cues from cocky, pre-redemption Vegeta (not a bad idea). But I believe it only jarred the readers more. The gender-swap seemed obvious and artificial and distracted the reader from the story. The same problem occurs in superhero comics. Iron Man? Everyone accepts that a white dude of indeterminate age can be of genius level intellect, have his own company, and be a superhero/playboy in his copious spare time. Riri Williams? A 15 year old black girl who reverse-engineered Iron Man's tech? Whom he then decided to fund and sponsor? UNBELIEVABLE, according to the backlash. Not a real Iron Man/War Machine, it was obvious that the writers simply "made her up." X-23, Laura Kinney? Not a true Wolverine. "Just created as fan-service." Dr. Jane Foster? Not a real Thor. "Just a writer gimmick." This begs the question, why not? What dissolves the suspension of disbelief with these characters, while the suspension of disbelief is limitless with traditional characters? People claim they want new and interesting stories and challenging plots and characters, the same way they claim they want to lose weight. But they really don't. They want the old chestnuts, the familiar, the predictable. The sugar and the salt. If a story is predictable, you don't have to think about it too much. It won't upset you. People dislike being upset. Shonen style stories are the most predictable on the planet. Good always wins. Evil is punished. Virtue is rewarded, and sins are rebuked and/or reprimanded. Good guys and bad guys are obvious and look the part. So Salagir set himself up with challenge in U16 Bra: an unsympathetic, one-dimensional character who happens to be a girl whose cockiness and obsession with strength is/was rewarded, not punished. Her morality is questionable. It's a deliberate inversion of the typical shonen character. But plot-wise, U16 is integral to the story. So she had to wear Plot Armor from the beginning, as well. Also DBM is moving along, plot-wise, at the pace of Freeza's kitchen timer. And there's also a peanut gallery of readers dissecting everything you do every page? Uh-oh...

ltsarge:

Regarding their statement people could buy iron man cause he is a white male... You know I take issue when people bring this line of thinking up. I think their iron heart girl, being a 15 year old black girl is a total cash grab gimmick appealing to their xtreme social left. In the same way that female Thor was a giant feminist spectacle that literally went around beating up misogynists. I don't think it's unreasonable to call out this type of pandering where it's seen. If marvel really wanted a black female heroine to take up the reigns of them iron man, they could have gone with this character. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misty_Knight It would be way more believable for an previously established in comics older black lady who has personally designed by tony stark tech, to take up the Ironman mantle than some 15 year old prodigy made up whole cloth. Same with female thor. If she - hulk or black widow went around welding his hammer (them latter which has occured), I would totally buy it. Having some super powered feminist be the new thor, and telling thor to check his privelege seems almost a parody of sjw influence in comics, yet it's played horribly straight. Sorry for the digression in this thread

snowflake:

But the entire superhero genre is pandering. Captain America punching Hitler? Meek and Mild-Mannered Clark Kent becoming Superman beating up anyone and anything with complete moral justification? Batman being the God-Damnned Batman? Itsarge - In the same way that female Thor was a giant feminist spectacle that literally went around beating up misogynists. That's a totally legitimate power-fantasy. It's just not aimed at you. At least you can console yourself it's likely to fail commercially. And just wait until the Enchantress gets her hands on her! As for Misty Knight, they were probably wanting to avoid anything smacking of blaxploitation. In fact, since Riri Williams looks like her exactly, she'll probably end up being a clone or something. Anyway, my point is that female superheroes are a challenge. They're a challenge to draw (how sexy is too sexy? how muscular is too muscular?). They're a challenge to write. They're challenging to present in an appealing light, and they're a challenge to plot for. And then there's the audience predisposed to hostility against such characters, and then there's the fact it's on the internet, which simply makes everything worse!

ltsarge:

1st up, female superheroes are not a challenge.  Just focus on making a good character, that happens to be female.  Black Widow, Ripley, Sarah Connor, Lara Croft, Rukia, Riza Hawkeye, Winry Rockbell, Bulma Fucking Briefs... (I can go on but you get my drift.) 2nd.  Anyone complaining about them being too sexy is either a prude or hypocrite, considering the over masculine features of male heroes which gives plenty of fanservice to people who like men.  And before anyone says any Anita Sarkeesian-esque excuse about how male superheros having amazing body appeal to the male power-fantasy, go do a cursory google image search on any male hero, ESPECIALLY if they anime, and take off your parental filters.  You will see endless fan art of male characters from Ichigo to wolverine to Raiden who are all in sexually explicit poses, if not flat out porn of them.  Probably the latter. Hell just look at fucking Twilight series if you want an entire series dedicated to the female gaze upon appealing strong masculine figures. The point is, if you're overly concerned about the sexual imagery of a female character, you're in either fear of the rabid feminist crow, or possibly the overly conservative crowd.  Considering their are female characters throughout comics and anime that are sexually appealing but renownly well written speaks volumes on how little an artist or writer should give a fuck about whether they are too muscular or sexy.   3rd.  Regarding superhero pandering like Captain America punching Hitler (or similar heroes punch insert political villain) in the face.  You may note that is something that is often mocked by comic book fans for how politically charged and nationalistic it was.  If that low bar is what we are setting as defense for female thor, than sure, well than I guess those examples of bad writing justifies absurd levels of feminist pandering.

4th.  Most of the arguments brought forth in the discussions regarding all this since the comment about "people are more willing to allow for a white male Iron man, but not Insert minority character" that have emerged as defense of bra, seem to be desperate attempts of justifications for an overall badly done character.  You don't need testicles or white pigmentation and blue irises to recognize the Bra for the most part has not jived with the fan base.  I've made a hefty list in this thread of why her character has problems, and none of them are because she has a vagina.  In fact, I have criticized many of Salagir's Original Characters for the same reasons, but Bra has either more or all of the flaws of the others such as Gast or King Cold. Let's be real.  If Bra was not a female character, people who defend her would not have certain cards in their arsenal.  If this character was Vegeta, and I was defending her, you wouldn't see me saying "Oh you vegeta haters dislike Vegeta because he's a male.  You are all sexist!"  or "its difficult to right an arrogant MALE character from space" I don't give a fuck that Bra is a strong female character.  I give a fuck that her blatant mary sue traits are not addressed, and in story she's not criticized for being a bratty person. Just because there is a lack of "strong female" characters in DBZ cannon (not complete absence, as there are still many in DB/DBZ), is not a good excuse for building a shitty one.  We don't need affirmative action in comics or fan comics.  If people want to make a strong female character, that's good, that's fine!  But if there is one that's made that has HUGE FLAWS, we shouldn't say "Well, there are no other strong female characters, so thank god for BRA."

snowflake:

Well, on the flip side, if Bra was male, I doubt we'd get as much demands for PUNISHMENT!1!11 or "Punch me harder, Daddy" jokes. At this point, we'll just agree to disagree. We're talking past each other. I have faith that all of your complaints with U16 Bra will be addressed in the story eventually. U18 and U16 have had limited interaction since the beginning of the story. There's a reason for that.

ltsarge:

I'd be happy to argue at length over female portrayals vs male, so if u'd like to merge some of this over to a new thread that be fine with me.

Me: Hopefully, they don’t do that. Not because I think they’ll lose any argument or whatever you’d have with them, but out of the fact that whenever they DO point out flaws in your arguments and show you evidence you’ll just conveniently ignore them. You’re def. not someone worth conversing with.

Me: And seriously, why would you liked their last post to you?

prphd and ltsarge like this

Me: I mean with the way you went after them, I’d rather they didn’t get a like from you let alone anything else (although, this could be your way of respecting your opponent or whatever you would refer to them as, still, it doesn’t make it any less awkward seeing as how antagonistic you had been towards that person, a stranger no less...who you try to inject your thoughts and feelings towards while replying to their post when it wasn’t warranted).

Me: And some Anti-SJWs wonder, bitterly, on why some social justice advocates don’t take them seriously. Let alone obligate themselves to even talk things out with them.

[aotopmha]

One thing in particular i find frustrating as all hell is how people are bitching about how quickly Caulifla and Kale are growing in power. Funny i don't recall these people getting pissy about HIt being able to increase his strength MID-FIGHT or Frieza closing an over decades long gap in a matter of months and dont even get me started on formerly low triple digits Roshis recent powerlevel boost. But God forbid the ladies are naturally powerful and one found an alternate means to transform.

I actually don’t think Hit and Freeza are very good examples here because Hit’s adaptability was established to be part of his powers and Freeza has always been really powerful, but unskilled, so it makes sense he makes a lot of progress when he actually decides to work for what he wants. I think their power makes sense.

I think Roshi and 17 would actually be better examples of this, and it all comes from the fact that the best the writers can do to make many of the side characters relevant again despite the power gap, is to tell us the characters have trained off-screen. It’s not unbeliveable for Roshi because he has multiple times expressed regret over not being able to do anything and Krillin and Goku finally inspiring him to pick up the slack is completely solid character writing.

17 isn’t as bad as some people put it, either. While we don’t know who he could’ve trained with, his power increase isn’t as big as it might initially seem to be. Him blocking a Blue Kamehameha isn’t anything special if you look at the context of things - the special quality of Super Saiyan Blue is Ki control. Just like with Krillin, Goku was simply testing 17. It was made very clear these were sparring matches. He probably could’ve defeated them fairly easily if he wanted to, but the point is, they both got power-ups to get to actually do something and be relevant.  

This is also the plot reason why Caulifla, Kale and Cabba are so much more powerful. What’s the point of introducing any new characters if they’re really weak? It’s somewhat of a weakness in a narrative like the ToP’s. I mean, of course you could also introduce female Saiyans who have established to have worked hard like Goku right away, but perhaps Toriyama/Toei thought a delinquent/thug like Caulifla would be a lot more fun and fitting with Saiyans and Kale actually being a shy and not that confident Saiyan would be much more interesting/unique, focusing more on characterization than power.

Once again, Trunks and Goten are actually the perfect example of this annoying, sometimes very sexist perspective, though.

It’s obviously also nostalgia playing a role here, but Goten and Trunks were around 7 and 8 when they learned Super Saiyan and it was basically an accident; they weren’t delibrately training for it. We can assume that Caulifla and Kale are much older than that at this point and we know they are part of a thug gang, so they do see their fair share of action. The obvious intent with Trunks and Goten was self-awareness and Toriyama just having fun, but they are just naturally much stronger than their parents at that age, even if they had been training together with very strong fighters. Vegeta was even surprised by the fact that Trunks transformed so easily.

The usual excuse for them is that they are the sons of fighters like Goku and Vegeta, and like Gohan, have a lot of potential, but that’s the exact same reasoning that’s behind Caulifla’s and Kale’s strength.

The first thing we learn about Caulifla is that she has a lot of potential. These last few episodes have repeated many times that the U6 Saiyans have a lot of potential. When we first learned about the U6 Saiyans, one of the first things we were told was that they evolved differently.

Add to that, the “fighting together with much stronger opponents” idea is completely legitimate here, actually. Gohan got to Super Saiyan much more easily than Goku did, too (Goku was really weak as a kid) and part of that was also probably because Goku already knew how to do it.

Caulifla and Kale learned from Cabba at first and are currently learning from Goku. That’s a lot different than dealing with a power you don’t really know anything about.

Add to that, despite their massive strength, they have character flaws established. Caulifla can get overconfident and isn’t really a martial artist. Kale isn’t very confident in herself and can’t really control her power that well, along with also not being a martial artist. This is actually the only thing I was afraid of - the female Saiyans not really having flaws established and somewhat showcased - that is the real sign of a Mary Sue or Gary Stu - fear of making the character be wrong or have any weaknesses. 

I’m so happy about this week’s episode because of that. It shows that the writers do care about making flawed, but not completely shallow and incompetent female characters. None of the problems with Pan in GT are there - she was nothing but a damsel and couldn’t even get to Super Saiyan even though she was older than Trunks and Goten for most of GT.

Caulifla and Kale have gotten more development as characters in these past 20 or so episodes than Goten and Trunks did even during the Buu saga. (I really hope Trunks and Goten will eventually get something substantial.)

I think so far Caulifla is the better character, and Kale in particular has some clumsy execution to deal with, but I like them. They are a step in the right direction when it comes to female characters in Dragon Ball.

Thank you for the ask!

(By the way, I’m in a Dragon Ball mood - send me DB asks and welcome to the new followers who are here for Dragon Ball!)

[aotopmha]

mehless replied to your post:                    Oh hey, the Dragon Ball fanbase is in fact full of...                

the main reason people hate is for how she got her powers in a contrived manner when most characters achieved said power through very dramatic, rage-induced manner. i love her character’s personality 100%, but there is such a thing as criticising a piece of media for not executing its ideas perfectly. also her design. people are used to giant muscle dudes as characters (of which another female character has) 

I wish that was the only reason. No other fanbase I’ve interacted with has been so gross about hating female characters.

Naruto’s Sakura and Hinata don’t get much positivity as characters (and I agree that they’re not that great characters myself), but the hate never goes to such gross levels as I’ve seen with DB.

Bleach’s Orihime is the same way. She’s generally considered not that great of a character and even Matsumoto, who is strictly a fanservice character, didn’t get this shit to this extent. 

AoT’s Mikasa is also criticized a lot, but again, there’s a lot less that type of shit here.

Ribrianne and Monna are called fat in a negative light, but Toppo and Buu never get that.

The amount of rape jokes I’ve seen about Kale and Caulifla is really horrible.

Even worse, Trunks and Goten did the same thing, but they are tolerated far more (even if also criticized) and they have at this point almost 200 episodes of presence (starting with the Buu Saga + Super) compared to Kale’s, Caulifla’s and Ribrianne’s 20 episodes. (Even then, Caulifla and Kale had a total of a portion in an episode and episodes 100-101.)

It’s somehow okay for Jiren to be a powerhouse and Kale and Caulifla are taboo in being just strong? Hell, in this episode we saw a clear character flaw to Caulifla in form of her overconfidence. Why is women just naturally being strong so hard to accept, when Gohan and Freeza are also like that? Even Vegeta was simply naturally strong at first. That’s part of why he was so arrogant. He was an elite warrior, naturally strong since birth.

EVEN MORE, the series has been, at this point, nudging you in the direction of the idea that U6 is different. It’s never straight-up stated, but the fact that U6 Saiyans have a lot of potential and have evolved differently and, in fact, evolve very quickly is a thing.

Is it really just “getting their powers in a contrived manner”?

I’ve wondered why it’s so harsh with Super, and Dragon Ball in general, and I think it’s

a) Dragon Ball is very “masculine” in focus (ideas of what you’d associate with masculinity), as you said it yourself and anything feminine is taboo ‘cuz it should be about MANLY MEN. It’s why Gohan gets so much shit for being a scholar. In fact, Gohan’s character has many feminine qualities, down to his more gentle personality.

The most telling of that is that despite the fact that Gohan has said he doesn’t like fighting like his dad does, a lot of people basically still want him to be Goku and blame Chichi for making him study, when he actually really likes studying. He’s still studying in his early 20s when he has hs own family and life, he obviously loves what he is doing. EVEN GOKU is understanding of that BECAUSE HE CARES FOR HIS SON.

The Trunks and Gohan episode in the FT arc had the point that while Trunks was awkward at first, in the end he was happy that Gohan was happy, even if he wasn’t like Future Gohan.

Ribrianne fits this mold perfectly. She’s very feminine. It’s also why 18 gets the least shit out of all the female characters. She’s a lot calmer than Chichi and Bulma, who are more emotional. Hell, I think I don’t like Chichi that much because she’s really one-note, but the idea behind her character is that she wants everyone she loves to be safe, happy and live healthy, regular lives. It’s exgaggerated for comic purposes and sometimes goes too far, which is part of why I have problems with her character.

b) With masculinity come positions power and how that is dealt with.

The “Alpha Male” shit can go fuck itself. This is why a lot of people want Goku and Vegeta to always win and be #1 and want Gohan to be just any other character in the series, regardless of how good or bad it’s writing-wise.

(In fact, I love that Gohan is a pacifist and doesn’t like fighting as other characters in the series do - it makes him unique and interesting.)

Caulifla and Kale threaten that. They are naturally powerful women. No can do.

Now, here are the non-gendered reasons. The ones that not-sexist folks bring up. 

a) Ribrianne’s scenes usually drag out for a good while. People who are really bothered by pacing, don’t like this for that reason. This, I myself, agree with, but I still like Ribrianne. I’m used to DB’s bad pacing and this is nothing new. I’m rewatching Z right now and there is far worse paced stuff in there. Ribrianne is genuinely charming original DB stuff that I want to see more of and I’m glad Super has.

I grew up with he series from original Dragon Ball on, not Z. I want lighthearted stuff like this because I love the stupid and fun gags of DB.

I think the reason why so many people frown upon DB’s comedy is because in the US fandom, everyone grew up with Z. But Z was never what DB was at it’s roots. Add to that, they grew up with an altered dub. That Goku is not Actual Goku and removes some of the more morally complicated elements, that Japan understands and likes. I grew up with the German dub and while flawed, I’ve been getting by just knowing it without having to be corrected about the characters. Add to that even more, Toei took liberties with Goku, too. (For better and worse - I haven’t actually read the manga, but I like some of the additions Toei made from my research)

b) SSJ is a legendary transformation and anyone who does it makes it “less legendary”. It’s also usually a result of a big emotional moment. This is why people are more okay with Cabba. He was under pressure and it was a character moment when he transformed (both times). Such was actually also the case with Kale, especially when she learned to control the berserker state in episode 101.

But not with Caulifla, she just did it. She’s just really powerful.

and... I don’t think it really matters. I don’t think them making it to Super Saiyan, 2 or even 3, makes the emotional scenes Trunks, Goku and Gohan went through lose any impact. They are still their scenes and their moments. It’s clear the intention behind Trunks and Goten, but also Caulifla, Kale and Cabba transforming is not to downplay any of those characters’ feats. On a meta level it’s to make them matter and make them look cool and in Trunks’ and Goten’s case, have fun. This is why it never bothered me, like it seems other people.

You can dislike them, but I really wish it was just criticism for the characters, with no sexism attached, but nope, there’s a lot of sexism.