#is this discourse. i don't think so but

[aroaceacacia]

[hearthmistress]

i'm sure this has been articulated before and probably better, but i can't stop thinking about the fact that the main reason buddie fans hate Tommy (outside from the fact he is blocking their ship from becoming "canon") is because Tommy is getting the Eddie storyline they want. Or rather, the fandom idea of Eddie is being played out with Tommy's character arc.

This really clicked with me after I watched a nearly 4hr 9-1-1 recap youtube video created by a buddie fan. I genuinely think (the buddie of it all and their view of Tommy aside) it's a great video and worth a watch! Really articulates what makes 9-1-1 fun and lovable, the issues the show has (especially with copaganda), the bad writing with certain characters and character plot arcs, and genuinely had a lot of points I agree with/have been saying myself since I started watching 9-1-1. Even the buddie of it all, I could get on board with because I like watching people argue why they ship something - I don't have to agree with it or like the ship to be interested.

My main issue with the video (and why I can't stop thinking about it) is how the creator viewed Tommy and how (perhaps purposefully) bad-faith they have interpreted his actions towards Buck. Again, I don't care if someone doesn't like Tommy or has no strong opinions of him, but I prefer people's dislike to be based on reality and/or what the character actually did, and not through the rose-coloured glasses of a shipper lens.

When the creator of the video brought up Tommy as Buck's love interest, they mostly said they were rather cool on him and that we don't know a lot about him yet to really know the character (and given that this was published before S8, that's fair). However, they bring up the cafe scene in S7E05 and Tommy's "mmmm, not like that" line as "evidence" that Tommy's indifferent to Buck and this is where buddies and general audiences separate into different realities, because this moment is a) clearly supposed to be funny/romcomsque and b) demonstrates Tommy's dry wit and, dare i say, sassiness - a trait applauded by buddie fans with Eddie (and they use as proof as his "queerness") but condemned when a canonically gay character does it. The video creator themselves mentions numerous times Eddie's sassiness as a positive trait (and to be fair, they also mention that it's sort of Eddie's default trait because he's a nothingburger character - which I agree with), but when Tommy does it, it suddenly demonstrates that a character doesn't really like/care for their love interests (which given what we know about S8.... hilarious in hindsight, holy projection batman).

Anyways, that really clicked into place for me that the (outsized) outrage buddies have towards Tommy is because he is canonically demonstrating traits they want to see in Eddie/how they view (fandom) Eddie.

Tommy as a character is:

-a deeply closeted gay man when we first meet him, who participates in toxic masculinity as a means to protect himself and/or because he can't (or is unable to) fully articulate himself as a queer person.

-alluded to have been raised in an environment where he had to hide his queerness (as discussed specifically in S7E10 with 118 being a "regressive place" when he was there). Is pressured by both his biological family and his work "family" to maintain a certain idea of manhood, and by extension, stay closeted. Also served in the army, an institute infamous for being homophobic, and undoubtedly influenced his ideas around duty and manhood.

-unable to maintain relationships with women, even serious long-term ones as with Abby, and uses these relationships (either subconsciously or not) to maintain the illusion of his heterosexuality.

-tied with "traditional" masculine interests/hobbies/institutes. He was in the army, he likes monster trucks, fighting, craft beer, flies a helicopter, etc. He seems, on the surface, a guy's guy.

-now canonically out and was/is in a relationship with Buck and has served, vitally, as a closet key to Buck, ensuring that two firefighters on the silly weewoo show are, in fact, together.

-very clearly invested in Buck's well-being, both within and outside of relationship. Has demonstrated numerous times "going out" of his way to put Buck's emotional needs first and to value Buck in way others (Eddie) do not.

-one half of a groundbreaking queer relationship. Cannot be repeated enough, the fact that the show has a main character (beloved by fandom and the general audience alike) come out as queer in a long-running mainstream show is groundbreaking. The fact that Tommy is one half of this ship is so important both to the show and Buck's entire arc. It is important and groundbreaking.

These are almost all things/traits that buddie fans argue make Eddie queer and/or why buddie would be a groundbreaking ship. Which sure, but the reality is the showrunners, the actors, the show itself have maintained Eddie is straight, and (as articulated by the creator themselves in the video) most of what they project onto Eddie comes from the fact he is poorly written rather than because the show was planning on making Eddie gay in the first place.

I read through numerous comments for the recap video and for a following video from the same creator about whether they had been queerbaited (I wish buddies learned the term "ship-tease" because if one half of your ship is canonically queer, no you cannot be queerbaited and dismissing Buck's canonical queerness just because your ship is not happening is, uh, a problem), and numerous times buddies have mentioned how "groundbreaking" buddie would be as if all the things they mention about the ship hasn't already happened with Bucktommy on the show. Their issue is not that the show refuses to do this (and the amount of comments I read that said things like 'they'll never make buddie happen because the network is too conservative'.... for a show with a black lesbian relationship from season 1 and has already made half of your ship queer and made him fuck nasty on screen with his male love interest.... the mental gymnastics is too much), but the fact that the show HAS already done this, just not with their blorbo of choice.

My closing thoughts (for now, I have MANY!) is that in the follow up video about being "queerbaited by 9-1-1", numerous comments asked "if Eddie isn't gay, that would mean he's just emotionally immature, terrible to women, and not a great friend or parent. He would be the worst character on the show".... and like yes, that's the real character you are choosing to stan, not the fanfic one! I fully understand that Eddie is blank canvas for most buddies to pin their hopes and dreams onto (again, because he is poorly written and is essentially a nothingburger character), but no matter how you twist each bucktommy interaction, make bad-faith interpretations, project things that never happened onto Tommy, in the end, Eddie is still a straight boring character. And Tommy is the one who is canonically living out the character-arc you so desperately want to see on the show.

[showsandstuff]

I am so conflicted about the drama in the arcane fandom regarding Meljayvik because it's all just so messy.

For one, not everyone likes every ship and that is okay. You don't have to like Meljayce or Jayvik, it's okay to only like one of the two or none at all.

But then there is the disposable black gf trope that makes this whole thing tricky. I hate this trope so damn much, it isn't fair. At all.

But then also Mel is SO MUCH more than Jayces lover in the story, like her romantic relationship with Jayce was a tiny part of her character and their relationship with each other as well. So I don't like the idea of reducing her to just that. Mel's arc this season was all about her other qualities, her intelligence, her power and her relationship to her mother, not about her love for Jayce or whatever.

I absolutely love Mel as a character. She went from someone who I thought would be a cunning villain, to this caring and intelligent leader, who will do whatever she thinks is best for her people.

Yet people always reduce her to "the girl that gets in the way of the Yaoi" or "Jayce’s love interest", like no come on?! She never got in the way of anything and she isn't just Jayce’s girlfriend. She doesn't lose her purpose if people don't like her together with Jayce, because that wasn't even what her arc was about! Free my girl!

[matcheadz]

I'll never regret a single second of it.

[mxtheyes]

you guys all know that like. his take on this is a very generic liberal take, right. and it doesn't mean he's secretly super transphobic, right. you guys know that most bigotry is very mundane and subtle, and not secretly a sign someone's a nazi, right. right guys? right?

like there's things to criticize yes but i guarantee you if you talk to like. a random person at Walmart about this they'd probably have the same take. and i think having a huge uproar & insisting that it's immoral to watch his content now is like. more likely to make him dig his heels in than anything else.

idk. this is my last post on this fr. but like. i think... maybe..... don't let [insert streamer] be your only safe space, and don't put people on pedestals because they will fail to live up to your standards.

edit because this apparently wasn't clear: that doesn't mean don't talk about it or don't care about the normalization of bigotry. what this means is that making the situation something it's not (ie that skizz is actively and purposefully transphobic) masks the way that bigotry like this is mundane and often unintentional, and stops us from being able to talk about it in that way. i care a lot that's why I've posted like 1000 words about it atp. lol

[souperstition]

tumblr therians who hate tiktok !!!!!

i dislike tiktok . it's weird and i think any platform with short form content is bound to piss people off

however, i personally would like to say a few things !!!!! no that u have to hear me out lol

ALSO PSA THIS IS MOSTLY ABOUT YOUNGER THERIANS (like under 16)

anyway plsss keep in mind :

therians on tiktok are 80% children (from like 8-14) (have you ever seen a child talk about something important to them? they scramble their words and make it very self centric!! they do not quite understand social media, information gathering, communities and safe spaces like us older people do) (my foster sister is 11 year old is a therian and she's still figuring out how to work with it) (also their whole lives have been spent living as human, unlike some of us older creatures who have had therianthropy under our belt for years)

i've also deleted tiktok! but instead, i literally watch those silly therian tiktok compilation videos on youtube. they're usually hand picked and recent! avoid the drama and watch fun little videos online !!!

also please remember some therians can be more connected to their humanity than you could be ! sure, they shouldn't claim every therian "is human", but if they're a child, children seem to apply "if this is my experience, then it's everyone's experience duhhh". if they're older with a bunch of experience in the community then go ahead n sick'em i condone that LOL

OKAY RANT OVER

sorry no one is gonna read this lol

i think we need to teach our tiny creatures before being like "RAWR U DONT EVEN KNOW HOW IT WORKS !!!!" they r little puppies guys

[rowyndodendron]

Diomedes really cranked the "simp-o-meter for Odysseus" from 0 to 12 in approximately 0.6 seconds in book 10 (choose ur spy buddy) and im snort-laughing.

Partially because of how Unnecessarily Extra Diomedes is.

And then even more so because of how Extremely Done Odysseus is in his reply (every time he uses the "long-suffering Odysseus" epithet i fucking DIE laughing. I can FEEL the -_-)

But also, because I feel like the opposite is more typical (Odysseus having the flowery flattering speeches and Diomedes just, like, "read at 2pm"-ing him in return):

I am choosing to headcanon that Dio is very subtly/very gently teasing/mocking Odysseus. And that Ody has done the "oh i pick Diomedes the incredible, the unmatchable, unwinnable force of the gods' will!!!" thing to him recently and Dio is now just throwing it back at him in a "do u hear what u sound like when u talk???" Kind of way.

Which is why Ody is peak "i am Unamused by this, diomedes" in the scene. Because he knows he's being gently roasted in a way the others likely won't pick up on/which is Just For Him.

And i think that's beautiful

[v88sy]

Beeeeeeeeeecause believing that two canon queer characters who were actually in a relationship might get back together after they had an open ended and very fixable breakup where they both clearly still wanted to be together, is way more ridiculous than believing one of them will suddenly fall for his aggressively straight best friend after 6 years??

[bingqiuhateabortion]

Don't you like how TGCF, the novel where MC's image is still considered "pure" and worthy of religious faith even after being brutally physically mutilated, martyred, tortured, but an ounce of self gratification, of expressing sexual desire would "taint" that image and cause him to lose power, where MC could only ever be happy after letting go of the "proper" ways of his cultivation method to live a fulfilling married life, gets praised for being the "pure" danmei novel because there is no explicit sexual scenes in it due to strict censorship on any sexual content in china that could lead to authors facing actual jail time, despite severe body horror and cruelty, basically everything crude you could come up with being depicted in the said book. How some dipshits actually are audacious enough to announce that they prefer the censored "untainted" version of hualian because it shows how "pure" their love is. Then say that they didn't like the extra's implications right after that... because eww!! Kinky.

[queerum]

aromantics are way too comfortable implying friendship is the most valuable part of life to bitch about alloros doing the same thing with romance

[flowersforthemachines]

Useless Veilguard fact of the day: Day 108

Neve's opinion on who should become the next Archon during "The Soul of The City" quest is influenced by her personal storyline:

If you haven't completed the quest, she'll say there is no right answer to that question

If you have completed the quest and encouraged Neve to become Dock Town's protector, she will support Dorian

And if you encouraged her to become Dock Town's inspiration instead, she will support Maevaris

(source of the video; originally uploaded by me)

Check out the tag for more useless facts: #useless davg fact of the day!

[ladyloveandjustice]

One of the wildest things that is apparently a thing now in briefly returning to comics fandom is...I've seen two posts saying people being put off by shipping Bruce Dick on the correct basis that Bruce and Dick are a father and son is erasure of queer history or something because it was meant to be an ambiguous relationship couldn't be categorized and...look my brain couldn't process either of those posts. It short circuited.

but the point is,. only somewhat related, and because I happened to be reading this stuff when I saw this, I want to clarify:

Bruce and Dick WERE referred to, and referred to each other, as father and son, very consistently in the Golden age. It was considered a familial relationship. Modern fandom and modern comics didn't make that up.

I've been reading a few random Golden Age Batman stories and its like. everywhere:

Bruce truly has an incredible thought process in the above one. I am agog. You CAN just say "I want grandkids" and leave it at that. man.

(I got a lot of these from this post series I ran across by @northoftheroad though I went out and cropped all the panels myself for some reason. But check that post for issue numbers and some more examples!)

The prevalence of "like" a son is because technically, Dick isn't legally Bruce's son in this era...not because Bruce didn't want to him be but because Bruce wasn't able to legally adopt Dick in that era. Single men adopting kids was just something that was not done back then (I didn't know this until recently myself!), and in some older comics they straight up explain that's why Dick is a ward, see @fantastic-nonsense really interesting post on it all here.

(interestingly sometimes Bruce does refer to Dick as "adopted" despite that, see here:)

But it's clear legality doesn't matter in regards to the actual relationship they have. They think of each other as father and son. And that's reflected with stuff like Bruce 'grounding' Dick from being Robin when he (supposedly) falls behind on his homework, etc.

So honestly, during that period where DC seemed not to want to say Bruce is Dick's dad (except in dramatic moments), that was actually a departure from the original, not the other way around.

(okay and. i think we need to be clear that. Frederick Wertham thought this was pedophilia because 1. he can't fathom a man wanting to adopt a child without it being predatory 2. He literally thought Bruce having a vase of flowers in his mansion was proof he was gay and 3. He CLAIMED some of his patients currently in the process of being "cured" for being gay said they fantasized about being Robin and taken care of by Batman or something like that. And that's fine if they did, but I think that's a far cry from anything being "intended", and wouldn't want to use him as source in general.)

(* clarifying to say I know about the 60's show's history w/ the queer community and do think Burt Ward clearly being an adult made a difference there, I think it's an interesting topic worth exploring by someone who's not me, my main intention with this post is to correct a factual misrepresentation of the comics. Also like, considering all the other fraught things going on here, this is a minor thing, but some of these arguments come off very 'adopted kids don't count' and this shows that even in 40s, they very much do.)

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

i hate the trope of a straight couple, usually teenagers, where the guy is about to meet the girl's parents, and her dad is the weirdly overprotective kind.

it's supposed to be endearing but it just comes off as controlling and not trusting his daughter's judgement, and also bullying a teen boy for no reason.

[bogkeep]

the fondest memory i have of getting to be at my Most annoying and pedantic was back when i was hanging out at a forum, and some guy was like, loudly complaining about overhearing a group of teen girls at a grocery store say harrison ford was the best actor ever. he was deeply incensed that these girls were not even CONSIDERING other historically acclaimed and objectjvely better actors before making their absolutely definitive statement.

on one hand it's already funny enough that we had to explain the concept of a hyperbole to who i remember to be a middle aged man, and maybe it was just a way of letting him concede with grace (he really did act like he had never before heard of the concept of teens making exaggerated statements without meaning it literally. like i'm autistic too but i struggle to believe that).

unfortunately because of who i am as a person, and because it was in my art history student era, i was like, sure, i'll play along. what are the objective criteria for Best Actor Ever. by what measure do we make this claim. how do we define an actor, how do we define excelling at the skills of an actor. how do we ensure that we account for bias towards gender and race? are the insitutions awarding actors for good performances objective? does such a thing as as The Best Actor Ever even exist? how do you know your favourite actors are objectively better and it's not just the perception from what your generation prefer in terms of media? people across time and place have vastly different ideas of what art is good and beautiful - did you know that many roman marble statues were painted in their day, and today we in western cultures would find the colors garish and much worse than the pure marble white? or how we love the sculpture nike of samothrace, but objectively that is a broken sculpture missing its head and arms, and it's very likely that the ancient greeks would not find her as pleasing as we do today, but because of the culture of art we have today we find elegance in the way it is broken? and -

i think the guy made a fair attempt at engaging with the discussion before he gave up. i will give him that

[v88sy]

ahem [*aims bazooka at the hornet nest*] the way anti tommy fics characterise Tommy is the way that canon Eddie has been treating Buck this season [*pulls the trigger*]

(more nuanced: obviously not referring to the DV or SA, but the whiplashing hot/cold, the casual cruelty, the "Buck's only useful when he's usable" attitude, that's all canon Eddie in s8. and to add to the irony, the way they characterise fanon eddie in these fics? that's canon tommy.)

.

.

.

.

(obviously given the state of this fandom right now I'm 100% not expecting this to get posted, I just felt the Urge to say it after seeing your post about the bucktommy tag on ao3 because yeah, it's fucking atrocious but it's only going to give bucktommy better ratings in the yearly wrap so who's really winning here)

Ooooooo, ok, I'm gonna gently grab your hand (with consent) and we're gonna walk together through this one because I'm bravely posting it.🤣

So, I've said before that I think their fanon Eddie is basically canon Tommy. Gay. Repressed by comphet. Failed relationships with women because he was too scared to admit who he really is. And, how they think Eddie would treat Buck in a romantic relationship are all ways in which Tommy has actually been shown to.

I think the only buddie fics I've ever read were from my partner in crime, and I purposefully don't click on any 'Tommy Kinard Bashing' fics (which, as an aside, relies on the author to have the common decency to at least tag correctly. More on that later) but in the particular case that spurred my original post, I just clicked on the comments because I wanted to see if there were any fellow buddies calling them out, which, yes, I have seen before on other fics. Things along the lines of "I'm a buddie fan too, but not like this."

Now, on to the fics themselves and not just how they're tagged. Fics like that, and like the 'anonymous hidden csa' fics that were being thrown in our tag...someone had to sit down and write that.

Like, I'm not trying to tell people what to write, and so this rant is more so just a me thing, but I honestly never did understand how someone could...even stomach that.

To write a (completely OOC) Tommy bashing fic where he's the most vile of the vile, or a csa fic with the intention of disguising what it really is in the hopes that we'll read it and be triggered...first someone has to sit there and bring the words into their brain. They had to make those words appear on a screen. And then, they had to post it to ao3, knowing full well what they are doing and that they are forcing it onto a collection of people that do not even want to know that it exists in the first place. Like. It just boggles my mind how someone could do that. I'd never be able to write the first sentence, let alone do all the rest of it.

I know I got sidetracked some from your original ask, but I do also agree that the way Eddie has been treating Buck this season is just...not it.

During season 7 hiatus, I wanna say shortly after we got bi Buck, I went back and rewatched the entire series again. I've watched live since day one, but was never really in the habit of watching an episode again once it had aired or sitting there and dissecting it once I pushed the 'off' button on the remote.

And let's just say, this time around, I really saw just how one sided that "friendship" is, and just how little "evidence" or "chemistry" there is pointing to buddie. All that just got turned up to 11 this season, and I truly do not comprehend how anyone could think "buddie canon" has "never been closer."

Mandatory PSA time: this isn't about chill multishippers or chill buddie shippers even. I know and talk to some and they're great. If you've never done any of the things above, then this ain't about you.

[privateolives]

This is probably because I grew up watching 24/7 animal planet, but what finally made the allo/aplatonic thing click for me were the nature's of big cats.

Lions are powerful, regal creatures who are uniquely adapted to pack life. They need these connections to live a healthy life; A lonely lion is a miserable creature indeed.

Jaguars are solitary, beautiful creatures who live happily solitary. They prowl their lush world with self-sufficient majesty. A jaguar is not lonely without a pack. In fact, forcing jaguars to share space with others they do not enjoy is just as damaging as forcing a lion to live alone.

A lion may choose to head out on it's own for the most part, but in the end must return to the pack to thrive. A jaguar can choose to trust and enjoy the company of others, but they never feel the need to form a pack.

Is a jaguar selfish for this? A psychopath, a narcissist or any other such horrid assumptions? Is it a less moral creature than a lion, who seeks others like it to thrive?

Is a lion pathetic, or needy, or selfish for wanting community? For requiring contact with others like they require water? For their inherent need to string complicated webs of relationships that may seem silly or dramatic to others?

Of course not. These are ridiculous questions to even ask.

They are simply lions and jaguars.

In fact, is a jaguar that chooses to spend time with you not as magical as a lion's love? For a creature that needs no bond to thrive to still enjoy your presence enough to share it a time? Is a lion who can prowl the night alone not impressive in its strength and resilience? Is it not awe-inspiring in its ability to conquer a life it was never wired for and reign still?

Are they not both beautiful and awe-inspiring in their own ways, without being wrong?

Alloplatonics. Aplatonics. Are we not both special and beautiful in both our bonds and self-confident happiness equal, in each our ways? Is there not unique beauty in lifelong bonded packs and magical encounters that need no perpetuity to carry life forward?

Are we not but lions and jaguars? Neither wrong, neither selfish, but just different and beautiful creatures in each our ways?

That's how I've come to see it, anyway.