#negative undertale theory

[realjonahofficial]

ough The Parallels .

[hellaverseposting]

Not an Undertale fan trying to justify their excessive hatred of the Hellaverse on one of my posts lmao. You’re a fellow weird kid looking for an even weirder kid to bully so you won’t be considered as much of a freak. 5 years ago you were part of a cringe fandom that was acceptable to bully. Looks like you’ve learned nothing.

[buttercupart]

i destroyed the bond of friendship and respect between the only people left who'd even look me in the eye now I laugh and make a fortune off the same ones that I tortured and the world screams; "Kiss me, Son of God"

[indiiglow]

OKAY. So. assuming that "The Depths" are really all there is, and there aren't other layers, and that is the only in-between that's ever been even vaguely mentioned in either Undertale or Deltarune. I am still miffed that we're calling it "The Depths" because any time I fuckin read that I get this pop up in my brain

[llamaisllama777]

TSAMS THEORY: THEY'RE ALL THE SAME//TIMELOOP THEORY!

Okay, you read the title. This is probably the CRAZIEST theory I've come up with up, but please let me explain.

Okay, so in this episode of The Sun and Moon show

Dark Sun visits Foxy and is trying to help him solve his F.c. problem. This was when F.C. got that red box in his chest that absorbs negative star power, and Foxy had no idea what to do, and "Sun" shows up to offer him some support and help... ya, that's not Sun, as you can probably imagine it's Dark Sun. Dark Sun, if I remember correctly, is basically telling Foxy to get rid of the kid cause he's too dangerous, and off course, Foxy tells him no. Dark Sun make some interesting comments that got me thinking. Dark Sun kept asking hypothetical questions like: If you could go back in time and redo everything the exact same way... would you?

Kept asking time related hypotheticals, and even after 7 months, my mind does wander back to this episode and what Dark Sun said.

Someone in the comments of this video asked "Wait is Dark Sun implying they're all stuck in a timeloop and only he knows?" And that BLEW MY MIND!

It does explain a lot of things about Dark Sun

How he seems to know how everything is gonna play out

How confident he is

How smart he is

It's cause he's been through ALL this before.

He's seen it all before

He's experienced it all before

And he's learned from it all.

There is a VERY popular fan theory that Dark Sun is actually OUR Sun just from the future!

I do think that theory is true... but allow me to add to it.

DARK SUN IS SUN FROM A PREVIOUS TIMELINE

The theory is that every time THIS world ends, it gets reset (Kinda like Undertale), and everything happens all over again, maybe with one or two small differences, so it's not an exact copy but a close enough one. Dark Sun was a Sun who we know snapped and fought back against his Moon, killed him, and stole his intelligence... is what I would say if that was true. It was later revealed that Dark Sun lied about killing his Moon. We see his Moon barely alive in a cell where Ruin then puts him out of his misery. Ruin calls Dark Sun out on his lies, and Dark Sun just kinda brushes it off. He lied! He lied about killing his Moon! So, if he didn't get his intelligence, then where'd he get it? Dark Sun didn't steal it he gained it through experience. Dark Sun somehow found out he and his WHOLE WORLD IS TRAPPED IN A TIMELOOP! He probably freaked out about that for a while till he began to wonder if he could change the future, change his fate. So, he does. He becomes Dark Sun after many attempts and many timeloops and finally breaks free from the loop, but he realizes he's free, but the loop isn't over. It's still going. Just now, he's a watcher. He's on the outside looking in. He watches the loops play out over and over and over again, and it just keeps getting WORSE! Moon is still being an abusive butt to Sun, Sun still barely has anyone to support him, and they are still constantly messed with by people like Eclipse, BloodMoon, The Creator, The Astrals. It NEVER ends! Oh, sure, sometimes the loop is merciful. Maybe it gives Sun a new sibling to care for him or a new friend or heck, maybe even a kid... but it's still the same shtick! Sun even dies in some terrible ways in some of these loops! Or the siblings turn rouge and become evil. Dark Sun decided enough was enough and decided to try and break the loop once and for all, but in order to do so, he needs to intervene. He needs to start making things go his way. Pushing Nexus further to the dark side, putting things into place so Sun will lose his support system, and make it so the next few loops will have the Suns coming up on top. Basically, altering the timeloops so Sun doesn't die in 95% percent of them and instead Moon dies. (What's been happening in the show currently) Dark Sun is trying to make our Sun like him cause he believes he can't break the loop, so if you can't break it... change it. He's trying to turn Sun into another him because Dark Sun thinks becoming like him is the only way to break the loop. He's trying to make all Suns like him cause he believes he can help them.

So, that's Dark Sun's part of this.... how does Emperor Lunar and President Earth come into play?

Well, if the timeloop theory is correct, then you see what I'm saying, right? President Earth and Emperor Lunar ARE our Lunar and Earth! Just from different timelines. They're like Dark Sun sort of. They know about the loops but aren't really doing anything to intervene. Maybe they are, and we just aren't seeing it? Who knows?

Now, you might be saying Llama, Emperor Lunar, President Earth, and Dark Sun are from another dimension... not timeline... well... do we know that for sure? I mean, they say it's other universes.... but... dimensional travel is a tricky thing. Who's to say Moon when he built the portal didn't accidentally poke a hole through? Plus, other dimensions and alternate timelines are a term that's pretty interchangeable. So, what we think is an alternate dimension is actually a alternate timeline, part of a the loop.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Moon's portal is actually going in a giant circle poking through the past timelines and wrapping back around to ours and poking through ours to future ones.

Tl;DR The whole show is stuck in a timeloop, and Dark Sun, Evil Earth, and Evil Lunar are OUR Sun, Lunar, and Earth just from a previous loop and Dark Sun is trying to save all other Suns by messing with the timelines so they'll become like him and break free from the loop.

Does this theory have a lot of holes... yes. But gosh dang! Wouldn't that be something! Plus, I can see something like this happening in the show.

But hey that's just a theory...

A TSAMS THEORY!

Thanks for reading!

[undercholy]

No one asked for this, but here's my opinions/theories on deltarune Asriel.

I think he'll be the character with the biggest difference in personality from his Undertale counterpart. Most of the characters, if they have differences, they're just different circumstances. Bratty and Catty aren't friends, for example, but they would make great friends still. But Asriel, I think, has been shown to have a different characterization, in my opinion, and it mostly amounts to one big thing.

UT!Asriel is very timid, and DR!Asriel seems much more bold. In Undertale, Asriel notably isn't making a lot of decisions for himself, and even goes along with Chara's plan even when he stops agreeing with them because he's too timid to go directly against them. He does, later, when he keeps control of the body to prevent Chara from killing humans, but he let it go for longer than he should have. In addition, as Flowey, even when he was thinking of killing people and felt no compassion for them, he was timid about it at first.

DR!Asriel, in comparison, has shown a relative boldness, even in the few stories we hear about him. He's making more decisions for himself, and even kisses someone even knowing his parents wouldn't approve. Some of that might be the age difference, since UT!Asriel was pretty young and DR!Asriel is college age, but it is still a notable difference that many of the other characters aren't affected by.

One of the interesting differences in circumstances for Asriel is his parents' divorce situation. It happens in both universes, and for (What I believe to be) very similar reasons. So in Undertale, Asriel dies before his parents separate - it's part of the situation that sparked the breakdown of their marriage. But in Deltarune, he witnessed them before, during, and after the divorce. His reaction to it is also interesting, and I suspect this might be another characterization difference. I don't know how Flowey felt about children dying, since he wasn't really around for that bit, and he just popped back up long into his parents' separation - but he didn't feel anything towards them anymore, so there was no reason for him to be bothered by it. He was completely separate from the situation (I am playing with that a little in the CoreSoulsAU). DR!Asriel was not only directly affected, but also had to watch Kris be affected by it as well. They're very close, so I think that would majorly affect his reaction to everything going down. So here's my take on the situation (up to Chapter 2):

Asgore was police chief when something happened to Dess Holiday. My read on it is that there was some ambiguity over whether or not the negative outcome of the situation was Asgore's fault - my take is that Dess is fully dead, or believed to be. There was huge fallout from this, since it seems to have screwed up the relationship between the Holidays and the Dreemurrs a bit - they still interact just fine, but they have a lot of emotional baggage weighing it all down. I figure that Mayor Holiday, Toriel, and Asgore each blame Asgore for Dess's death, while Rudy doesn't blame Asgore. And the blame Toriel and Asgore place on Asgore leads them to split, her because she can't stand to look at him and know that his screwup led to the death of a child, which could have been one of their children just as easily, and Asgore sort of accepting it as part of his life falling apart because he figured he deserved all of that.

I think Asriel might be angry at both Toriel and Asgore for how they dealt with that. While Dess was probably close to Asriel, and he probably cared a lot about her, worrying about whose fault her death was didn't bring her back. In fact, all it did was isolate Kris, between the fact that the kids didn't hang out all together anymore and they don't seem to be encouraged to visit Asgore, though they're allowed to. It also ruined the normal routines and family interactions they used to have. So Asriel took up the slack of that, taking Kris to get hot chocolate and being their friend through all of this. But, at the same time, having all that on his shoulders and having the expectations of a small town who knew him his whole life, it's no wonder he went off to college. He probably didn't want to live his life the way everyone else expected him to.

I think the setup that he's the golden child who wins awards and is beloved by all is setting that up. People view him a specific way, and it's a kind of pressure - he's the dependable one, the good kid, the good influence. He's the town's best example of the next generation. He's been through a lot but he's never wavered. And I think that's hard for a person to keep up with.

For that last reason, I suspect when we do see Asriel again, he'll have done something that surprises everyone but Kris. Maybe a relationship, or a life choice or something that his family wouldn't approve of, showing that there's an emotional barrier between him and his parents that he didn't feel comfortable enough to share something about himself with them (though of course Kris knew about it). I doubt he's the knight purely for proximity reasons (he's not there). But it could be that his actions are related to it anyway, like if he taught Kris how to open dark fountains. But I think there will be something else, unrelated to all of that, that everyone will be grappling with because he's finally broken the mold of their expectations in some way.

And kind of unrelated to all that I think of UT!Asriel and DR!Asriel as completely different people in a lot of ways. So I headcanon UT!Asriel as aceallo, but DR!Asriel as aroallo. Based on not a lot but that's my headcanon

[theghostoficarus]

Soul Color HeadCannon | DELTARUNE /UNDERTALE (mainly deltarune)

So like, I posted my comic today and someone in the comments mentioned the fact that Mas and Icarus (My brother and I) have the soul color of Integrity and Justice, which in turn makes Kindness. I did this on purpose because I always had this headcannon that Kris had a soul of Kindness before we possessed them. I have 0 basis for this, it's not a theory because Kris was a little shit turd and I know that, but still it was always something I held close to my heart. No real reason in particular, I just liked it and never got the chance to yap low-key.

Anyway, the person in the comments (@spade-deck btw) starts going down the rabbit hole I did when I was obsessed with Undertale. The different colors of the souls can combine and become a new soul type. So Determination and Integrity made Perseverance. Determination and Justice (pretend it's yellow, guys, please) made Bravery. Since red is that one big important primary color, it makes sense that it'd be Determination, since Determination is the (in the words of Spade) "culmination of all other soul color". Anyways, Spade then said this "Weird headcanon I just thought of: what if human souls start off white and gain color over the first few years of existence, like I'd say by the time you're 5, your soul should be fully developed. That being said, imagine if it didn't do that, like it just stayed empty your entire life for some unknown reason. That being said, Kris Dreemurr-"

What they don't know is that in my brain, the reason monster souls are white is because they represent empathy. Empathy is what helps you learn through the pains of others; it's what builds your character in real life, so wouldn't it make sense for that to carry through in UTDR? I think monster souls stay white because they are created to be empathic and have power through their empathy; it's what gives them magic. This is ALSO why monsters get so powerful when they take a human soul. They get the trait of that soul, which enhances their bodies and magic. Since Kris grew up entirely around monsters who exude empathy, it'd take a reaaal long time for them to grow into their own person. Anyways, I think Kris could do magic if they wanted to, but the reason they can't is because we're possessing them.

I also think that when you do gain your soul type, it's largely based on the environment you grew up in rather than any genetics, although twins could be a weird fun thing to make an exception for. Now you might be thinking: "What about bad people?" "What about people who show a trait but negatively," and for that I say! Black is a thing, that's the opposite of white, and if white is empathy, then black would be apathy! Depending on the color of your soul, if it's more pastel or muted, it reflects your character and who you are as a person. I don't think this would apply by the meaning of like "sins" or what is good or bad morally, but just based on how much someone cares, whether they care healthily or not, is outside of the question. That care could be for others, themself, the world, depends on their values and who they are. So you can never really use a soul's color or shade to TRULY judge a person, although many have tried.

And that's it! PLEASE PLEASE ask questions and tell me your thoughts! I'M ACTUALLY DYING TO KNOW I BEG OF YOU/GEN VERY GEN!!!

[lynxgriffin]

I did post it on mine, but it's not getting the kind of traction I'd like for it to. But here it is:

Dr. Gaster didn't fall into the core. He fell into a black hole.

To elaborate, the common theory is that Gaster fell into the CORE and got scattered across space and time. But why would that happen? The CORE's a thermal plant, not some trans-dimensional machine. But see, it's never actually said that he fell into the CORE specifically, all that is said is that he fell into "his creation."

I feel there are two possible machines that this could refer to: the skull-shaped machine in the True Lab, or the machine under the sheet in Sans' basement. I believe it's the one in True Lab. The reason for this is Entry Number 17, the mysterious missing log from the series down in the True Lab. "Dark, darker, yet darker. The darkness keeps growing, the shadows cutting deeper. Photon readings negative. This next experiment will be very, very interesting. What do you two think?" I believe that the "experiment" spoken of is the creation of a black hole. When a black hole exists, everything around it would become darker, as it absorbs all light, right? Additionally, anything that falls into a black hole never returns. Depending on one's interpretation, they may even be scattered across space and time.

Obviously, something went wrong. He fell in, and somehow that machine became damaged so badly that neither of "them" could repair it. This event must have been like a disaster for the rest of the underground, as four others disappeared with him. Or perhaps they are simply reflections of himself onto the people of the world, but I digress. Now, he's fallen beyond the bounds of the game. He's on the outside. He can "see" us, speak to us. Us, these beings who were once so far beyond the realm of his ability to comprehend, are now open for him to communicate with, and the roles are reversed.

Another experiment, Another Him. And this time, we're the variables he's testing on. How

very,

very,

interesting.

☟︎✌︎📪︎ 💣︎✌︎👎︎☜︎ ✡︎⚐︎🕆︎ ☹︎⚐︎⚐︎😐︎

Tl;dr: The True Lab machine is a black hole generator, Gaster fell in during an experiment, and that's how he got scattered across space and time, not falling into the CORE. and now we're his next test subjects.

Very interesting! Although, the reason why people say that he fell into the CORE is because the same NPC that says "he fell into his creation" says "they say he created the CORE" two lines previously. It's not a stretch at all to say that the CORE is the creation that he fell into when those two ideas are pretty much said simultaneously! But, on the other hand, how the CORE is supposed to operate is left a bit vague. It could certainly do more than just be a thermal plant. There doesn't seem to be much reason why he would want to make a black hole in the first place unless he's actually a Nomai

For myself, I'm still uncertain yet on whether Undertale and Deltarune Gaster are actually one and the same person...I feel like right now it could go either way. I do absolutely think that DR Gaster is aware of the player and the "real world," considering the twitter takeovers and how Survey Program itself was rolled out. I don't know if it's to necessarily be test subjects for experiments, though. The language that Gaster uses when talking to the player is more...contractual than scientific. He seems to treat the player as a necessary partner or executor, not a test object!

[punmasterbaku]

Welcome to ME DRABBLING ABOUT A NEW AU IDEA "UnderPressure"

As the name states, this will be a crossover of Undertale and Pressure. With playing through the game a few times and reading documents, I thought to come up with this idea before anyone hopefully. This au in particular goes moreso through the pressure story set up but with small twists of my own.

That being Sebastian will still be there to help out and give advice. However its more my version of Sebastian / theories I personally have on the character alone.

With that being said let me give a small hint of the characters...

Crossovers:

Nightmare = Void Mass [ Appearance of half his corrupted self and other more voided mass of tentacles. Dark turquoise instead of purple to fit his negative energy]

Ink = Squiddle [ Has a squid like body covered in ink and dripping paint from his eye sockets. The expressions being different colours when flashed or close by]

Killer = Anglerfish [ Different stages of his soul represent the different variant of Anglerfish that are within the game. A light on his head and black streaks down his face. Gills can be seen on his neck and small scales across his bones. Stage 1. Angler with White Light | Stage 2. Blitz , Fast and hyper with a Blue Light and slowly developing tar like tears | Stage 3. Froger, very fast and more aggressive, has a light brown bulb with more hate pouring out his eyes and can rebound back and forth a few times before leaving. | Stage 4. Mutli-Monster, The highest stage and extremely aggressive, WILL INSTANT KILL and leave 5 seconds to hide. Light shines a DARK RED, hate pouring from eyes and mouth also is very fast. This stage is rare to see...]

Dust = Wall-Dweller [ A sneaky and silent individual who creeps behind the mains. He is seen with no arms, face covered with a metal like plate and hoodie covering most of his body. His back when exposed reveals the many holes and smoky texture as a side effect of the mutation.

Error = p.AI.nter [ Takes form of a computer like AI that has complete control over the Blacksite networks, CCTV footage and other machines including the Turrets. His proper appearance can be seen of him floating with a computer like head when interacting with the main characters trying to help ]

Swap = GoodPeople [ Deranged and mangle of bones kinda like an Amalgamates. Some bones melting into the floor and walls around them like a spider thread. He has a small mask over his face to cover the melting appearance he possesses after the experimentation]

Horror = Eyefestation [ Due to the mutation, his height spikes larger and more creepy with eyes scattering his body and inside the crack he wields on his head. The original eyes, having either completely disappeared or one with the crack. Who knows which one is his real one ]

Cross and Dream as the Protagonists of this AU, being the ones who are running through the facility.

THATS ALL FN, if you are looking forward to learning more feel free to ask and will eventually update more about this au once more has been written. Its a small project but love to see who else is interested.

PS: if you are wanting to join in with ideas feel free to let me know or even come up with designs, just tag me and will have a look for myself TEHE.

[utdrmv-confession-box]

Pinned Introduction post!

Welcome to the Undertale Deltarune Multiverse confession box! Here you can submit your opinions, criticisms, hot takes, theories, headcanons, etc! =)

On weekdays, I will post around 20 confessions a day. I will not post anything on weekends.

Confessions are to be submitted via the askbox. If you find that the askbox is closed, please do NOT try to submit your confession by any other means. It will NOT be posted.

Reminder: The confessions posted to this blog do not reflect the beliefs of the mod unless stated otherwise (aka me explicitly agreeing)

Let’s now go over some rules!

Keep it related to Undertale, Deltarune, the blog itself, or the multiple AUs the fandom has provided us!

Please submit them in english, mod (me) only knows english =( (If you can provide a translation however then it will be accepted!)

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Reblogs and confessions CONDONING problematic ships will be rejected immediately and will result in a block from this blog.

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Any unreality/roleplay confessions will be deleted.

Anything related to SwapSwap is going to be deleted.

Anything related to yanderes will be deleted (personal reasons).

Below are a few less important things to note as well as details about some of the tags that I use.

As this is inspired by @ Splatoon-Confession-Box, I will be posting confessions in a very similar way! (putting the text in an image and not answering the ask directly) so worry not if you forget to post off anon! (I will provide a transcript at the bottom for those who might not be able to see the images either because of bad wifi or disabilities!)

My mental health and energy levels tend to fluctuate so some days may be more inactive than others.

Posts that mention proship/comship/darkshipping in anyway, shape or form will be labeled with the tags #tw proship, #proship tw, #cw proship and #proship cw. (Remember that confessions endorsing/encouraging proshipping will still be rejected, but not confessions asking clarifying questions, discussing whether or not a ship is problematic, or complaining about it. Either way, proshipping in itself is considered a sensitive topic, and therefore will be treated as such by tagging it properly so people with filters can avoid posts about it.)

Posts regarding filtering tags

[Character/AU] Negativity tags

[Character/AU] Critical tags

Ship + Ship negative tags (I can’t find the post for some reason??? Summary: Ship posts will be tagged with #Ship and the tags for whatever ship it has, any post criticizing a ship will be tagged with #Ship Neg only)

#The Drama Tag

[astroshiloh]

Deltarune Undertale theory

I'm sure with all the theories on deltarune this has been spitballed out there but I currently haven't seen it theorized so I thought it was an interesting idea.

Undertale and Deltarune chapter 4 spoilers

Isn't it kind of interesting how Frisk just willingly accepts outside intervention vs Kris with their own soul?

It is already shown that Frisk acts outside of the players influence like Kris, and yet in the genocide route they seem all too willing to slay monsters.

I wonder if Frisk and Kris are in a similar predicament with their souls' influence by outside sources

The difference, however, is that Frisk is a child. They don't seem to want to stay in the underground, at least at first. They don't understand the world they've fallen into. And I'm sure if anything was said of monsters, it was negative.

They're looking for some sort of guidance, and this is filled by the player. The player chooses how Frisk's story ends. If they do get out of the underground or if they free the underworld (for better or for worse)

Frisk only knows that they are determined to get out, and if they're being told to do something that results in that, then they went with it.

The truth is we dont know how Frisk really felt in all of this, but I imagine when they said their name to Asriel, it was a sign they were on the path they wanted.

No matter what ending you chose in the true pacifist route, it seems Frisk kept a photo of everyone

As opposed to Kris, no matter how you treat Kris and those around them, they despise you.

Even moreso when you force them to freeze the cyber world with Noelle, murder her friend, and reveal to her that it wasn't a dream, shattering her innocence.

They are fucking furious. Probably seeing pure red unable to stop that moment.

I imagine they wanted to destroy it, kicking the soul back and forth until they were interrupted. Despite everything, they had to take it back and continue to bear witness to your atrocities.

Kris is in a unhappy alliance with the player, they dont want to be controlled. Who would want to be? Especially when it is literally killing and scarring your friends

Frisk is just a scared child. They just wanted to go home.

[promise-keeper-papyrus]

I have a theory about why almost all monsters are okay with destroying all humans, despite one of Asgore's kids being a human...

What if it's because they thought that Chara wasn't a human?

I'm probably wrong, cause it's a theory.

But it would explain so much and somewhat fix the problems I have with Undyne, who was probably the closest thing Asgore had to a child after losing Asriel and Chara.

Because you think someone close with the king would know how much Asgore still cares about Chara, thus that someone wouldn't enjoy attacking a human child so much, especially one that looks similar to Chara.

But if Undyne didn't know that Chara was human or didn't know Chara's existence at all, then her somewhat sadistic behavior would make more sense.

In her point of view, her kingdom had lost their freedom cause of humans... her king lost both his kids (one of them an adopted monster) cause of humans... humans were NEVER kind to monsters as far as Undyne knows!

But why would Undyne and the other monsters believe that Chara isn't human?

Because of Gerson (and Asgore not doing anything to stop it).

After Asgore's war declaration, many monsters cheered, but like the queen a great fraction of them aren't happy with going to war with the same species that Chara was.

To solve this, Gerson (with the help of other ancient monsters) got rid of most books about monsters and humans once getting along, leaving only the war books, then created books that paint humans in a more negative light while making monsters look like complete victims.

As it slowly began to work, Gerson also created a history book about the origins of Asgore's war declaration, including the death of his children, saying that Chara is adopted but leaving out that Chara is human.

When depressed Asgore eventually found out about this, he is outraged at Gerson tricking the kingdom, but Gerson says that it's a necessary evil because the kingdom will be less motivated for war, if they all knew Chara was human.

And this war is giving them hope, something to live for.

Asgore doesn't like this but goes along with it, because he knew the kingdom will get into conflict against each other, if they knew the truth.

Asgore hides all pictures in his house that have Chara's face in them, except for the one where Chara's face is hiding in flowers.

Asgore's depression kinda made him a pushover, since he didn't stop Mettaton from messing with a statue (which could've been about Asriel).

By the time Undyne was born, everyone believes that Chara was a monster like them.

Imagine Undyne having a crisis about learning that Asgore had adopted a human... the same species Asgore is planning for war against... and one of her mentors has been tricking her this whole time, while the other did nothing to stop it.

Gerson could've also tried his best to hide other information about humans and make monsters look like complete victims.

Like how a monster absorbed 7 human souls, which started the first war.

Or how some humans most likely died in the war, but the books are covering it up by saying 'no human souls were taken'.

Or ignoring how humans allowed the monsters to live, even if it's inside of a mountain.

Or how it's never said that the power of dead souls needed to be used.

Or how humans are stronger than monsters.

Or how human souls are made of positive traits.

And if monsters absorbed human souls before, why didn't they use this power during the war? : r/Undertale (reddit.com)

[deadspacedou]

Deltarune chapter 3/4 “Darker World” theory

So normally I’m not the type to post online. I’m usually more of an observer than a participant. But I made a connection to two lore pieces that I feel that I should share, as I haven’t seen anyone else bring it up.

So I believe we’re all familiar with the “Darker yet darker” line. While for the longest time it seemed like gibberish, with new context form chapter 3 and 4, the meaning of this line becomes far more clear.

Here is the original line translated for clarity.

“Entry Number Seventeen

Dark Darker Yet Darker

The Darkness Keeps Growing

The Shadows Cutting Deeper

Photon Readings Negative

This Next Experiment

Seems

Very

Very

Interesting

…

What do you two think?”

Now on the surface this still doesn’t make sense, Atleast until you put it in the context of how Ralsei explains the dark world to Susie. His dialogue goes as follows.

“And when the lights run out…

You see nothing.

Of course, your mind can’t make anything out of nothing.

But what if?

What if it became even darker?

Darker than dark.

What if we could take away the light that wasn’t there

Until we reached another side?

If that were to happen…

You could start to see things again.

And hear them.

And feel them.

That is the dark world, Susie.

An alternate view of reality through the lens of shadow.

In other words…

…An illusion”

Now let’s think about what Ralsei is saying. The dark world, is a reality that is created when the amount of light is taken away, despite there not being any. A negative amount of light. It creates a darkness so deep, that it is darker than dark.  The end result creating a dark world. A false reality of illusions made by shadows.

Now let’s think about what the entry seventeen line said. “Dark darker yet darker”, “The darkness keeps growing”, “Photon levels negative”. What else could this be describing besides a dark world? It hits all the key marks, a darkness deeper than regular darkness, a negative amount of light, and ever expanding darkness. The only logical thing would be a dark world.

Now what this means in the context of Undertale and Deltarune, I’m not sure. All this confirms, is that whoever is speaking in this entry, is aware of on some degree the dark world, and is informing two others as to what it is. Beyond that though, I’ll leave for everyone else to figure out.

[a-shy-mimiktwo]

Deltarune theory

The Snowgrave affects things.

That’s been proven, right?

Just like Chapter 2 and Undertale’s Genocide route, we have plenty of opportunities to abort things.

But we don’t.

Except this time.

We’re breaking the game, as Deltarune itself described it.

In Ch 3, turns out after Tenna leaves the room (after the Rouxles scene in the zelda-esque game), you can go to the out of bounds area and Ralsei worries about breaking the game. Going somewhere that wasn’t meant to be accessed.

In Ch 4, Noelle talks about a game (with Susie) about an “evil route” that Susie mentions originally happened because of a bug.

We’re changing things in a way that was never supposed to happen.

Maybe “one ending” is meant as the prophecy will change no matter what you pick.

Depends on how we want to change it.

Either we keep the final prophecy from happening in a positive way or a negative way.

Snowgrave could indeed change whatever the final prophecy was. But Susie and The Fun Gang could also change it.

We save the world or we “save” the world.

Chapter 2 also changed a lot that happened after the Berdly fight. Spamton took over the castle. Giga Queen fight didn’t happen. Neo fight was clearly not supposed to happen. Especially not at the fountain.

And a smaller thing about one of the prophecy glass things was something about The Queen’s chariot (the car we drive in that first “get the banana” thing). That doesn’t happen in Snowgrave.

Changing the prophecy in the worst way possible.

[minunwithacannon]

You know this is the exact sort of nonsense Toby is probably making fun of, but...

In the Autumn 24 newsletter, there's an interview where Sans makes the most basic of all jokes, but then all the Undertale Characters start making complex theories about it... until it comes full circle to 7 8 9. And then they make more complex theories about negative numbers.

Odds are, it's just supposed to make fun of people like me who read too much into everything.... but I can think of a way the joke can be read as a metaphor.

Alright, laying out the full pun.

5 6 7. 7 8 9.

Five sics Seven. Seven ate Nine.

Five, Seven and Nine are nouns. Sics and Ate are actions. Let's start with Nine, it's what the Newsletter is all about after all. Given the context of the rest of the newsletter, there is an obvious candidate for Nine.

Chara.

The letter at the bottom of the newsletter confirms that Chara's favorite number is 9. All the 9s from Chara destroying the world. If one was making a metaphor about the Undertale cast using numbers, 9 would be an obvious choice for Chara.

What about Seven? Well the obvious thought that comes to mind when you say Seven in regards to Undertale would be the seven human SOULs. There are two characters whose primary goal in Undertale is to collect the seven human SOULs. Asgore and Flowey, with everyone else wanting to collect them wanting to give them to Asgore. Of the two however, only one can be said have "ate Nine."

Asriel, the one who took Chara's SOUL. Adding on to that, Papyrus is weirdly defensive about Seven. We know that Papyrus thinks highly of Flowey, starting the Flowey Fan Club in multiple reset timelines. While Flowey is a villain by the time we meet him, Asriel taking Chara's SOUL to free everyone would meet the definition of "misled anti-hero", about as well as Asgore at any rate.

Which leaves Five? Is there someone represented by 5? Well, not a person and not five exactly. But there is something that people theorize is represented by 55.

Noelle's HP when wearing the Thorn Ring decreases until it reaches 55. It's been theorized plenty this is because 55 is LV in Roman numerals. Five then, would represent love. Perhaps in its double meanings.

So the full meaning of 5 6 7, 7 8 9 would be... Love compelled Asriel to take Chara's SOUL.

Does this tell us anything new then? ....Probably not. It's just a retelling of Undertale's backstory. I wonder if the negative numbers tell us anything. Probably not, I mean, negative nine would need to be opposite of what nine means. With the newsletter being clear that 9 means "As strong as possible", negative 9 would have to mean as weak as possible. And if seven meant killing for a greater purpose, then negative seven would mean not killing under any circumstances. But that's silly right?

Uhh.... well... If Seven means killing for a greater purpose, then Papyrus, someone who doesn't kill ever, fits the opposite of Seven. Even in a Genocide Route, Papyrus will never kill us. Even though, in that case, he probably should.

If Nine means being as strong as possible, so strong nothing can hurt you, then "the easiest enemy" would represent the opposite of Nine. Being as vulnerable as possible... but finding strength in that weakness.

This part sounds like it's making fun of Papyrus Knight Theory... but Sans's dialogue is a pretty good summary of Papyrus's role in Undertale. He's introduced as someone who wants to hunt humans, ostensibly something bad and detrimental to us... but he's pretty quickly shown to be a helpful and kind soul. Whether something similar will happen in Deltarune, too soon to tell.

But what the heck would negative ate mean? If ate means taking a SOUL, then negative ate would be... giving a SOUL?

Okay, that's it. Theory's cancelled. I'm leaving. Goodbye. Shut the door on your way out.

[miyako-jonathan-asgore-simp]

Ship negative

The player x ralsei ship and theory really pisses me off because "Oh how cool! shipping a boy who is at max 17 with the players who are around 20 years old because they know undertale since 2015!!". Yes im talking about that art on top of the deltarune tag. No I don't wanna bring drama. Yes I am just venting. Yes you can block me if you support that ship. Yes I consider it proship. No, I don't wanna make a discussion in the comments.