#pro vs anti discourse

[cr0wteeths]

how do you feel about proship vs anti?

i miss the "don't like don't read" era 👍 I am quite anti censorship

and my ao3 history would give certain people a heart attack 👌

[this-vs-that]

This question was sent to our inbox. If you’d like for us to post a This or That poll for you, send the 2 things you want to see against each other to our inbox and we’ll let the people decide which one they prefer. Everything will be anonymous.

[fannedandflawless]

Selective Loyalty and the Lily Problem

This post continues from my previous analysis, "WHO LIT THE MATCH?" — specifically section 5.) Loyalty Worn Two Ways, where I compared Lily Evans’ loyalty to that of Bellatrix Lestrange. The response to that post made it clear: we need to talk about Lily.

"She was written with strong loyalty." That’s what they say. But loyalty, when selectively applied, isn’t virtue — it’s comfort dressed as conviction.

Let’s talk about Lily Evans. The girl who stood up to bullies — sometimes. The girl who defended Severus — once. The girl who walked away — and never looked back.

🔨 The Double Standard No One Wants to Name

Lily called Severus’ Slytherin friends cruel when they hexed others.

"You think that’s funny?" she asked. "You think that’s all just a laugh?"

But when the Marauders hexed Severus in front of a crowd — dangled him upside-down, flashed his underwear to the world, humiliated him — it was brushed off as mischief. She scolded James, sure. Called him a “bullying toerag.” But she didn’t disown him. Didn’t stop speaking to him. She married him.

Why is one hex cruelty, and the other mischief? Why is one unforgivable, and the other… flirtation?

When Severus defended a fellow Slytherin, it became proof he was on the wrong path. When James hexed Severus, it was part of the journey to redemption.

Lily’s moral compass didn’t shatter — it shifted. And Severus saw it happen in real time.

⸻

🎭 The Performance of Principle

It wasn’t just the bullying. It was how she measured it.

Lily had the self-righteousness of someone who meant well — but only when it was safe to mean well.

She never went after Sirius, who cast the spells. She never called out Remus, who stood by and did nothing. She never looked James in the eye and said, “You humiliated my best friend and I won’t stand for it.”

Instead, she turned to Severus, and said:

“You’re choosing the wrong people.”

They all did. And yet only one was punished for it.

⸻

🔍 She Forgave James — But Never Severus

This is where the comparison starts to sting.

Lily was willing to believe James could change. But not Severus.

She gave grace to the boy who tortured her friend — but not to the friend who broke under pressure. She extended second chances to the boy she dated — but cut off the one who needed her most.

That’s not just a mistake. That’s selective loyalty.

⸻

⚠️ Not Villainy — But Still a Problem

This post isn’t about demonising Lily Evans. She was young. She was flawed. She was human.

But so was Severus.

And for a fandom that preaches kindness and forgiveness, it’s strange how selective that kindness becomes when his name enters the room.

⸻

♾️ Coming Full Circle

When Bellatrix was loyal, she was honest about it. When Lily was loyal, she chose who earned it — and who didn’t. One was mad. One was adored. But both were uncompromising.

Maybe that’s what makes it hurt.

Lily believed in goodness. Just… not always in the people who needed her to.

⸻

Related post: WHO LIT THE MATCH? Coming up next: The Devotion That Never Grew Up ⸻

If you found this post stirring, you may also like… A collection of emotional deep-dives into Severus Snape—the man who endured, unravelled, and remained:

Severus Snape: Widower of the Living

The Virgin Theory: Severus Snape, and the Sanctity of Unlived Intimacy

The Dignity of Suffering in Silence: Snape as the Ghost of a Living Man

[enemywasp]

Been getting a couple replies lately pointing out that proshippers have sent harrasment and threats to people too and I absolutely hate that I can't disagree. I truly do believe antis are typically worse, and certainly more consistent.

But let it be known that when I say I am proud to be part of the proship community, I am never counting any of y'all that don't listen to the anti harrasment point we're supposed to stand with.

I can understand debates, I can understand arguing back. But we should never be the ones going out of our way to interact with people who have polite dnis or attacking someone who doesn't perfectly agree with you, or dislikes certain tropes.

Two wrongs don't make a right, make angry posts all you want but telling someone to kill themselves or joking about rape or triggering topics is never okay. And it completely defeats the point of being proship.

[yesornopolls]

Do you have a sibling and ship any iscest?

Please no pro/anti discourse

[urfavisaminor]

Shipping ABUSE is supporting ABUSE. a short opinion piece

(P.S. BEFORE ANY OF YOU ASK this is NOT SATIRE!!!!!!! I AM MAKING ARGUMENTS THAT ARE VERY SERIOUS AND MEANY TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY, listen to ur ant queen! blindly. THIS IS A VERY VERY VERY VEYR VERY VEYR EGRYR VERY VEYR VEYR VERY SERIOUS BLOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!) I'm not satire I'm not dairy I am serious and smart you people just can't handle my genius I'm so dmart if you disagree with me ur wrong and I'm right

Noq to the main topic, why peoshippers are hitler, while yes, I’m talking about fictional characters, don’t you get it?????? If you write about characters yelling at each other, having a small argument or even an "enemies to lovers"/"rivals to lovers" you’re basically telling your readers that it’s okay to let their partners gasloghtt and hitthem IRL!!!!!! You’re ruining lives with your degenerate scum smut! ITS YOUR FAULT AND I HATE YOU

Bakudeku is proship btw (proship problematic ship) because Bakaga told Deeki to khs once in middle school and was a meanie

“But it’s just fiction!” WELL SO IS NAZI PROPAGANDA so if ur proship just know you're comparable to actual nazis and are clearly racist and ableist and homophobic and transphobic. What’s your next excuse? You’re LITERALLY training people to ignore red flags.

And before anyone says, “It’s just a ship!” let me remind you that words have power. Your abusive ship fanfic lemon could be THE reason someone’s cousin’s roommate's aunt's co-worker's friend decides to stay with their toxic boyfriend. That will happen AND IT WILL BE YOUR RESPONSABILITY. IT *IS* YOU JOB TO HANDLE OTHER PEOPLES TRIGGERS, MAKING THIS CONTENT MAKES YOU HUST AS BAD AS ACTUAL ABUSERS.

NORMALIZING ABUSE IS ABUSE. there's no other motive you would ship this otherwise!

None of you care about real victime (the only real victims are the ones who dont use this shit to "cope"").

In conclusion: You’re all enabling abusers only comparable to the literal devil. Go outside and touch grass. Preferably the kind that makes you itch.

ur wrong and I'm right !

I am so smart so smart so smart

It's okay for me to like problematic media thought! I like problematic ships CORRECTLTy ur just consume it not correctly

try doing it correctly next time

I am not hypocritical

no

[theweirwoodfiles]

HOTD Fandom Behavior

This is going to be a little long winded but this has been on my mind for awhile.

Why does it seem like it's only team black that gets put in the hot seat for fan behavior? I understand that team black makes up the majority of the fandom, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't address the rampant misogyny that has been present in the team green fandom since day one that has gone unchecked. The show amplified the voices of misogynists who feel drawn to the story of the dance because they enjoy Rhaenyra's suffering and tragedy. Not to mention the other, actual fans, who still just hate her for whatever reason and can't do so without being misogynistic just helping normalize that kind of behavior.

And I'm not talking about "well I just like Aegon more than Rhaenyra", but the fixation on Rhaenyra's sex life and weight, the ai slop photos or wojaks where she's a misogynistic caricature, the fact that there is genuinely a huge portion of team green fans that cannot admit to their dislike of Rhaenyra without falling into misogyny. Those people are not outliers, and they've made themselves very comfortable in that part of the fandom. They feel no shame and sometimes even get viral posts.

"I'm not team black because the fans ruined it for me" but the team green fans calling Rhaenyra a fat ho or saying she deserves everything she gets for daring to have sexual agency didn't turn you off from being team green?

[starrbar]

I genuinely did enjoy problematic ships in a vaccuum until fandom got shitty about it. Now I enjoy them rebelliously. Congrats, y'all, you made me worse. :3

[lovesickmarauders]

pro-ship in the way idgaf what you read so long as its on your side of the internet and tagged correctly.

pro-ship in the way i can tell the difference between media and real life

pro-ship in the way that no one cares about "illegal" ships in mainstream media like white lotus, game of thrones etc so why would i care what an adult reads/writes in their spare time

pro-ship in the way that i know no one who writes horror/murder is actually committing said crimes, so logically, no one who writes incest/darkship is doing it.

anyway, long story short, idc if people ship siblings, parents, and kids or anything of the sort because if i dont like it? i won't read it.

[0dotexe]

Statements like "Oh, this was obviously the authours thinly veiled fetish" and "Morally dubious content" are so ick to me. So??? Who fucking cares? The policing on "thought crimes" is so disingenuous and is inherently a first world problem, (and is inherently ableist, but that's a tougher pill to swallow for most.) If your consumption of fictional media written FOR FREE on the internet affects you that deeply, go outside. Love of gods.

Those feelings you feel, that falls completely on you.

Fiction only alters reality if you let it or if you're looking for a confirmation bias to do bad deeds, otherwise you're a child if you think that people aren't going to do what they want regardless of media. These things within a space which should for all intents and purposes be treated as a hobby, will get posted every second of every day will not cease, and do not affect the world nearly as much as political mis/disinformation do.

Your righteous perception of having people think you're morally superior because you say that writing about (insert paraphilia/kink/fetish here) is bad but then turn around and shit on people for dealing with their trauma/intrusive thoughts in the "wrong way" will never understand how freeing it is to put your experiences down on paper.

Grow up, curate your spaces with blocking practices, and move on. Or take that vitriol and make something from it, instead of attacking others and wasting everyone's time.

[jackdawandicarus]

help why does the billford community have proshippers in their DNI? the fucking *billford* community? do they not realise billford is a darkship or?

[tamaaiba]

Being groomed is such a crazy experience because people will feel for you until you mention that the shit you saw fucked you up and then it’s “ermmmm you can’t get trauma from looking at pictures.” You gotta be a perfect victim who just sits there and acts like a victim. You can call out people. People love seeing other people get called out and exposed. But the moment you mention how you were groomed it’s all “NOOOO MUH DRAWINGS MUH PRECIOUS DRAWINGS”

[urfavisaminor]

Wtf is an adult minor??? Lmao??? 😭

it's not my job to educate you 😒

[turbo-virgins]

people who post their hate about a ship within that very same ship’s tag are so wild to me. it’s like swinging a bat at a hornet’s nest and i cannot understand the thought process behind it. is the goal to get negative interactions??? is it the logic where any attention is considered good attention? is there some little thrill to be found in starting a fandom slap-fight on the internet?

my siblings in christ, we are all smacking characters together like dolls, there is no need to give each other the side-eye about it

[starrbar]

Time for my bitching hour again!

Putting it under a cut cause the screenshots might lengthen the post + mentions of incest.

I'm convinced that people like this don't actually give a shit.

These guys are literally sitting here admitting that they don't think there's ANY way for a story that includes incest to be good. So much for "We're not against dark topics!!! We just don't want them romanticized!!"

"I found out the incest was only there because of the author's fetish." is a straight-up fabrication.

"It probably is romanticized." is a dumbass assumption and isn't true. The siblings' relationship is depressing and upsetting and just because there's comedy or points where they get along doesn't automatically make the dark topics mishandled.

Bonus, no further commentary needed:

[cloud-based-and-rainpilled]

Old Gay VS New Gay discourse is so interesting to me as a “new gay” (milennial) growing up around “old gays” (boomers)

Old gays refuse to adapt to new nuanced gender and sexuality labels, feeling they’re superfluous and not “real issues.” New gays refuse to understand the point of view of a community not that long ago that was ravaged by AIDS and was (and is) straight-up illegal in public to be in most parts of the world

It’s a microcosm of the boomer/milennial dichotomy and imo shouldn’t even exist. There’s always been gay men VS lesbian VS bisexual disagreements and schisms and even proto-trans discourse about drag and androgynous presentation, but I’d like to think with a larger, more vocal community than ever, we’d come to an understanding that we don’t need to be fighting! We’re on the same side even with very strong disagreements!

Tl;dr if Boomer gays and Milennial gays could just rest thinking the other was cringe instead of completely disregarding and getting hostile towards the other we’d be in a much better place inter-community wise. But, to be honest, mostly I just see milennial gays completely disregarding the feelings of the people who made it possible for us to go outside idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯