acute-cat

[acute-cat]

I mean it is great to get accused of harrasment when tring to engage with things in good faith, partially to try and figure out if I qualify as intersex. I have literally received contradictory answers from people because it is very much a grey area and up to very exact definitions.

And the previous reblog post liteally ignores perisex trans people and that sex charasteristics can be changed.

[acute-cat]

this all literally ignores trans people....

perisex is a collection of müllerian and wolffian traits commonly seen in parallel with each other. perisex is also referred to as endosex, which is anything and anyone who is not definitively intersex.

parallel - two objects or lines that do not intersect, no matter if another object or line crosses through both. in this case, müllerian and wolffian traits are parallel with multiple similarities crossing through both.

perisex traits are split into "müllerian indication" or "wolffian indication". indication is being used to describe how no one is perfectly perisex or has the correct perisex parts, and the indication that someone is perisex (hormonal, primary/secondary sex traits, genes, etc) is more accurate rather than the assumption based on external sex traits. the terms "male" and "female" are assignments of what your body closely matches, but does not accurately describe current or past sex traits, so they will not be used. afab/amab are events related to such, and therefore will also not be used unless in correct context.

this is a perisex flag I made that shows a cut purple box with a periwinkle background. purple symbolizing the mix of red and blue, the box symbolizing the parallel of both müllerian and wolffian traits appearing in a singular individual without them being interconnected or imbalanced, and the sun on top of the box representing two halves of one coin (müllerian and wolffian).

perisex people are the dominant majority in society because of eugenics and intersexism. there is no shame in being perisex, but the ideals of perisex supremacy starts at the classification of "male" and "female" and the thought of those two being sexes instead of variations of the perisex traits that appear in gonochoristic species.

be proud to be perisex and dont wish to be anything you aren't. uplift those who are systematically underprivileged and shut up about issues not about you. perisex people suffer, yet only from their practice of prejudice against others.

thank you for coming to my ted talk about how perisex people like me need to be proud about their unique bodies but still listen to others who are aren't them.

[acute-cat]

I’ve been thinking lately about talking to my doctor about my being intersex and finally starting the process of getting a diagnosis for whatever my variation is. But I’m hesitant because the two main symptoms present different problems with diagnosing:

One, despite being amab I grew breasts years before my transition. But I’m also a trans girl so testing my hormone levels isn’t going to reveal anything about my body’s natural state since I’ve been on hrt for the past 4.5 years.

Two, my genitalia is a bit deformed. But how am I supposed to tell a doctor about my dick being fucked up if even acknowledging the fact that I have a dick at all makes me so dysphoric I want to claw my eyes out with my bare nails.

I guess chromosome testing? But what if the variation I have isn’t one with atypical chromosomes?

Is getting a diagnosis even worth the effort? I mean aside from the closure of knowing myself better what would really change? My hormones aren’t really causing me any problems since hrt. As far as the genitalia thing is concerned as I am I probably wouldn’t be able to top anybody if I wanted to, but for one I have no interest in sex because i’m ace, and two I’m hoping to one day have bottom surgery anyway. I guess a diagnosis might be relevant when I do eventually have surgery. I don’t know, it’s a lot to think about.

[acute-cat]

You are not understanding (and I was likely not being clear about the distinction) that I was talking about my feelings and thoughts as a teen trying desperately to get help while navigating a world hostile to me. The thought "I wish I was intersex" is so common among trans people that it was included in the forms I had to fill when getting diagnosed. It is inaccurate and a result of ignorance of the reality of being intersex, but it is a very real /and in my opinion understandable) thought to have when everything around you is steeped in bioessentialism. It is unfortunately normal to internalize that transphonia and take on the intersexism inherent in our society.

I knew even back then that it was faulty thinking, but understanding something as irrational does not erase the emotional parts of that. I am still trying to get over the gender imposter syndrome, even though I am much better with it now that I have gotten help and have simply, grown to an adult. I don't fault my younger self for having those thoughts and desires occasionally. She hardly had much else to cope with. Furthermore, my post was most of all targeted not towards intersex activists, because most (understatement) people using the "of you can't know for sure your chromosomes" rhetoric are not intersex.

I realize now that I probably shouldn't have reblogged OP to begin with. It's safe to say I'm a pretty broken individual, heck this sideblog is basically created to try and contain it and work through it. This is a topic riddled with triggers for me, but its one I don't think I can responsibly just ignore. So, I'm sorry. Most of all that I was not clear in what I meant. The fact is that on this matter neither me, you or dabwax disagree with. I thought sharing my experience would be valuable, but I might have been mistaken.

Also here's a small and cool way to not be intersexist that is simple for you all

Don't assume someone's CHROMOSOMES unless they've been karotyped and say them themselves. Don't assume your own fu king chromosomes unless you've been karotyped. I have been karotyped and it was uneventful - but plenty of people do not have the XX or XY they or others assume they have. It's just as weird as saying "afab genitalia" or "amab genitalia" like HUGE assumptions going on

[acute-cat]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm adding to it, sorry if it came out as venty, but that's unavoidable when the topic at hand is personal and something I've been personally hurt by.

Maybe I shouldn't have reblogged

Also here's a small and cool way to not be intersexist that is simple for you all

Don't assume someone's CHROMOSOMES unless they've been karotyped and say them themselves. Don't assume your own fu king chromosomes unless you've been karotyped. I have been karotyped and it was uneventful - but plenty of people do not have the XX or XY they or others assume they have. It's just as weird as saying "afab genitalia" or "amab genitalia" like HUGE assumptions going on

[acute-cat]

I'm a bad person and insane and shouldn't be allowed to interact with the outside world. All I do is cause harm to the people around me and whoever I interact with. What's wrong with me

[acute-cat]

I have had my karyotype tested. It was coercive and what they did with that information was hurtful and insulting.

I wish people would stop with the rhetoric of "if you haven't had your chromosomes tested you can't really know" because that still plays into the false importance and determinism about them.

When transphobes are going off about the X's and the Y's, the response of "Oh, but you can't really know if you have them if you haven't had them tested!" just is not affirming. These sorts of sayings definitely contributed to me hoping the results said something else. To confirm empirically that the given AGAB/ASAB had not been correct.

But given the results were """normal""", I couldn't find any hope in the "well, you can't know" arguments. I just had more data to fuel my dysphoria and the doctors could get away with degendering me by just referring to me with my chromosomes. When my dysphoria has gotten especially bad I've found myself just staring at my hands knowing every single cell is "branded" by those two letters that everything around me says means I'm my AGAB/ASAB.

If there is a point to be found in this accidental vent, it is that we should move on from "most of you don't know your chromosomes or those of others'" to realizing and advocating for the fact that they don't matter.

Also here's a small and cool way to not be intersexist that is simple for you all

Don't assume someone's CHROMOSOMES unless they've been karotyped and say them themselves. Don't assume your own fu king chromosomes unless you've been karotyped. I have been karotyped and it was uneventful - but plenty of people do not have the XX or XY they or others assume they have. It's just as weird as saying "afab genitalia" or "amab genitalia" like HUGE assumptions going on

[acute-cat]

hmm, what if I did have a hormone condition but due to medical transtion it is impossible to know for sure if that was the case, and it doesn't even matter anymore one way or another due to said medical transition.

Sorry, this is just genuinely a thing that keeps me up at night because of hormone deficiency/imbalance is an intersex condition, I might be intersex by some definitions but there is literally no way of knowing that now.

PLEASE STOP TELLING PEOPLE YOU HAVE A TESTOSTERONE/ESTROGEN DEFICIENCY IF YOURE A PERISEX TRANS PERSON. not only is it becoming a mainstream “excuse” for a lack of passing, meaning it’s not very effective, but it also contributes to stigma against intersex people and our… everything, really. you’re basically saying that intersex people are medical anomalies and that our struggles are comparable to the trans experience (some are, many aren’t).

sincerely, an intersex trans man who grew up with people mocking my intersex characteristics, only for some ppl to use them to their advantage transition-wise.

[acute-cat]

partially thinking, what if I just mute intersex stuff and other things since they clearly are a trigger for me. But also, I would probably be a bad person if I muted a minority speaking about their things. It would make me a bad person to ignore that

think I'm really just insane and shouldn't be allowed to interact with anyone

[acute-cat]

think I'm really just insane and shouldn't be allowed to interact with anyone

[acute-cat]

ever just so dysphoric and mentally ill you feel physically sick?

also probably just delusional with how I keep feeling that the term perisex is misgendering me. But like, literally just read a post that said perisex people are either male or female biological sex. based on agab/asab? Isn't this just the same thing about calling trans women "male women" which has always been disgusting?

anyone calling me "biologically m*le" or saying i was "correctly amab" is just being transphobic, right? Someone please tell me I have the right to be upset at that.

sorry for insane post

[acute-cat]

I am eternally confused by intersections of descriptive language on sex and medical transition. Does dysgonadal make a distinction on the cause? Describing the current state of my body, I am dysgonadal. And seeing as I am strongly opposed to anyone defining my body based on any arbitrary historical point or hypothetical possibility, where does this place me?

Same goes for anything to do with hormone levels, it's impossible to get any information on whatever my "innate" hormone levels would be because 1) there's no past information, 2) non-hrt information requires detransition, and 3) my body is already irreversibly changed by medical transition, talking about a hypothetical "unaltered state" just doesn't make sense.

I genuinely don't know at this point if I am wondering whether I am intersex because that doesn't make a difference at this point. I am probably more concerned with how things I see labeled and described as "perisex" (or synonyms) do not reflect my experiences nor the current state of my being.

Compiling some terms/posts useful for people questioning if intersex

Note: If a definition in is in quotes, the source material it is quoted from is linked to by the relevant term.

Highly relevant terms

Extersex - "[A] term for those who do not know whether they are dyadic or intersex. It could be because one feels as though they might be some form of intersex, but are unable to medically confirm it, or cannot confirm what intersex variation it is. It may also be for those who have a variation that may be considered intersex, but are uncertain if they want to identify as intersex." - @themogaidragon

Inter-Questioning - "a term for anyone who is questioning if they’re intersex, for any reason. (Whether it’s due to one’s physical body, familial experiences that imply one is, or possibly simply a mental feeling that one is intersex.)" - @eldorr

Quoisex - "[An] umbrella term for anyone who doesn't quite understand their sex or doesn't want to define their sex." - LGBTQIA+ Wiki Note: I understand this as more general than extersex, and would include people questioning if altersex. See the wiki entry for subtypes (quoigonadal, quoichest, etc)

Altersex - "An umbrella term to describe having or wanting primary or secondary sex traits/characteristics that do not align with the binary sex model that a significant portion of society has adopted. It is primarily used by those who are not intersex and are trans+ and wish to or transition specifically to have a body that does not fit the aforementioned sex model." -@intersex-questions Note: Being altersex does not make somebody intersex. I include it because many people questioning their intersex status realize this is what they're looking for.

Anisohormonal - "Aniso (unequal/uneven) + hormonal (relating to hormones). An individual who has an imbalance of hormones for any number of reasons. Such individuals may or may not also be intersex." - @sproutflags Note: includes non-intersex variations such as diabetes.

Subtypes of intersex people

Note: In my experience most people questioning if they're intersex have a hormonal intersex variation like PCOS, so I'm skewing towards this accordingly.

Dysgonadal - "[having] dysfunctional gonads. This includes agonadal (no gonads) and hypogonadal. Also known as gonadal agenesis/dysgenesis, dyssex and nullogonadal/asexed (null sex or avaginal/aphallia)." - @arco-pluris Note: contrasted with eugonadal - "people with functional gonads (reproductive cells). Includes hypergonadal (hyperfunctional gonads)"

Interhormonal - "Someone who is intersex and anisohormonal and/or feels that being intersex has impacted their identity as anisohormonal in some way and/or that their identity as anisohormonal has impacted their identity as intersex in some way." - @sproutflags

Intermeer - "a term used to describe all intersex variations that are caused by an overproduction of horomones (testosterone, estrogen, or both.)" - LGBTQIA+ Wiki Variations include: AES, FMPP, PCOS. Part of The Autre System for categorizing intersex variations.

Intermindre - "a term used to describe all intersex variations that are caused by a lack of horomones (testosterone, estrogen, or both.)" Note: The wiki lists AIS and EIS as examples although they are not due to a lack of hormones, but rather a lack of sensitivity to them. Part of The Autre System for categorizing intersex variations. See the wiki for more subtypes. Thank you to anon asker who pointed out the AIS/EIS issue.

Mesosex - "[A] person who has an intersex variation, but one which does not conform to perisex (non-intersex) ideas of what intersex is. For example, people who have intersex traits that are considered "mild", or who have variations such as PCOS Hyperandrogenism and Poland Syndrome." - @ipso-faculty

More intersex terminology

Intersex Terminology Masterpost by @intersexfairy

Edits: - 2023-12-13: corrected AIS mischaracterized as lack of hormones, ty to anon for correction - 2023-12-13: added interdynamic - 2023-12-20: added inter-questioning, thank you @fazbears-horror-attraction for sharing it! - 2023-12-21: removed interdynamic. Apparently "secondary sex" means something entirely different in omegaverse. Ty to anon for correction.

[acute-cat]

I don't think I'm intersex but perisex also doesn't feel to describe my experience. That's as good of a title as I'm going to get right now. For some background: Tumblr and recommendations have kept me in an intersex rabbit hole for a good while now. Large reason is that it is relevant to my irl activist work; to make responsible trans activism and also keep intersex rights on the agenda. Queer things and gender/sex are also "unfortunately" my special interests, so not engaging is harder than doing so. However, I am also a transfem with a lot of trauma from transmisogyny and cissexism, so many discussions relating to gender/sex and related biology can be triggering or at least heavy if I overindulge. Those reactions don't mean that the content itself is transmisogynistic, bioessentialist or cissexist. Triggers are sadly not rational. Sometimes they are still good guides to figuring things out.

What I notice most of all is my discomfort with the concept of perisex, because rationally it is a term that applies to me. I can confidently say that I am not intersex, at least in the most typical sense. I have had my chromosomes coercively tested, thanks to intersexist medical gatekeeping of gender affirming care and to my knowledge there was never a physiological question regarding my gender/sex (mis)assignemnt. The relevant questions are how is gynecomastia classified, whether I properly had breast development before HRT and if so what caused it.

It is hard to asses one's "natural development" after having been on HRT for years. All there is to rely on is memory, which is far from exact evidence. Having been fat as long as I remember, what might have been breast development was easily attributed to that as opposed to a atypical hormones. Biologically, this is also complicated by the fact that weight is a factor in hormone levels, with fat cells AFAIK contributing to estrogens. Since I started HRT through DIY, i.e. without a prescription or medical oversight, there is also no data on my hormone levels before medication. Altogether, it is a lot more complicated to consider one's "natural" development after having intentionally altered it for years. My point is not to say "I could be intersex but there is no way of knowing!" Even if we assume I had/have an intersex condition that would alter my hormones if it was not for HRT, that label would have no explanatory power on my current conditions because I have medically transitioned.

With all of this context, does the term perisex make sense applied to me? Does it refer to an assumed past state of my body and experiences related to it? The reason I have a negative gut reaction to this is that it reminds me of how a cissexist society treats me and other trans people with a bizarre obsession on our genitalia as infants. The difference obviously is that intersex activists don't assert sex as immutable, but again, triggers are not rational. The question I don't think I can answer is what the "perisex experience" might be, for a trans girl who was distinctly effeminate physically, socially etc.

My intuition is that there might be a need for some more nuanced terminology than a strict intersex-perisex binary. I feel this is something that really needs input from intersex people.

[acute-cat]

do you think of intersex as a spectrum? like including those who are intersex-adjacent (aka mesosex). I was thinking in making a flag but I can't elaborate much how defining it

Gonna add a big disclaimer that I'm not the coiner of the term mesosex, so I'm only answering this post as I understand the term.

I do see intersex (and sex as a whole) as a spectrum, but it seems like the point of mesosex is that it blurs the line between perisex and intersex. Perisex means near the binary, because no one really 100% fits it. Intersex is about being outside or between it.

So with how sex development and the binary work, there's no clear threshold for intersexuality. Even if someone has an intersex variation, they may fall outside the binary so "minorly" that they don't feel like they fit intersex or perisex experiences... and to that extent, Im not sure if mesosex was meant to cover trans perisex experiences or not, as i unsurely implied in another ask.

So my answer to this ask is... maybe?

[acute-cat]

Finally got this blog made so I can start maybe start detangling the mess of thoughts in my head as of late without fear of ruining my main with "discourse". This content will be very personal as my main concern is figuring out how the following topics and terms relate to me and how I relate to them. They are best represented as questions I will try to answer for myself, though the exact phrasing of them is not set in stone and might change as I explore the topics they represent. - Was I a trans kid? What do I mean when I say I had transfemme socialization? - Is growing up trans (complex) trauma? How do I move on? - What is conversion therapy for trans people and what is its relation to detransition? Was I a victim of conversion practices and was there an attempt to force me to detransition medically? - Does the term perisex/endosex describe me? How does the social model of intersex relate to certain experiences of transness/transsexuality? These are not in particular order. After writing these out I realize they are a lot messier than I innitially wanted them to be. That can be attributed to their complexity. My intentions, as stated above, are mainly to gain some personal clarity. Therefore it is safe to assume I am not generalizing or speaking more broadly unless I explicitly indicate otherwise. I do also hope sharing my experiences and thought processes might be useful to others as well. I welcome outside input if it is appropriate but I also know that the topics above contain things that are very emotionally charged and/or triggering for me. I reserve the right to maintain my boundaries if necessary. I'm sunsure if an introduction post is necessary, given that many personal details will necessarily be mentioned regardless.