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This is a threat

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i'm no marvel expert, but i think the avengers were a lot more toxic than the fandom sometimes made them out to be and their dynamic was far from the happy family we imagined in fanfiction

with thunderbolts though, i think it's closer to those familial bonds we wished to see in the original avengers

obviously mischaracterisation still exists, in fanfiction especially, but isn't it great we get another found family unit, one that hugs it out and talks about their feelings

hurt/comfort thunderbolts* fanfiction goes so hard, i cannot wait for more of the new avengers

(unrelated but i need bob reynolds to meet peter parker and i need more yelena and kate bishop content)

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scarlet johannson did not spend an entire decade fighting tooth and nail to make natasha into an actual character instead of the sex object writers wanted her to be while also having to endure the most vile, misogynistic questions during press tours for people to now disrespect her legacy because yelena is 'better'. the only reason why that is, is because of everything scarlet went through. natasha singlehandedly paved the way for every other female superhero in the mcu and don't you forget that

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Tell me why I made the same connection yesterday???? I rewatched Bumblebee and was like “hmmm, Charlie seems so familiar…” looked it up she’s Kate Bishop???? Also in Sinners??? Like??? Hello????? Was no one going to tell me??????

charlie watson bumblebee (2018), kate bishop hawkeye, gwen stacey spider-verse and vi arcane are all pLAYED BY THE SAME ACTRESS???????

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idk and feel free to correct me but bucky is definitely not the dad of the thunderbolts. at most he is their older brother. he won't be making appointments for dentists but he'll probably drive them back from the visit. he is not supervising their dates from the other side of the restaurant but probably keeps his door open if they want to sulk in the corner of his room for a while while he does something else.

like. he's not their dad. he's an older brother stuck watching them. he's not doing well himself, he just copes better than they are because he's further along on his mental health journey.

do you get me. he's not herding them together like chickens and wearing an apron and fussing over whether they ate dinner. he's mostly just 'do whatever you want, don't get killed and don't get me killed'. but he will absolutely jump into the line of fire with you (exasperated). do you get me. do you get me.

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This is so funny

Yelena actually has no rhythm, so she just either doesn’t dance, or tries to do the moves and fails.

Alexei is only good at the Rasputin dance. And he loves it, everyone cheers him on.

Ava is so focused on getting the moves right, she just ends up looking angry the whole time. Or she just moves the controller to match the moves without actually dancing.

Bucky refuses to participate. But if Sam is there, he becomes a “I’ll do it if you do” kind of person. Sam also doesn’t like to participate, but will do anything to see Bucky dance.

Bob is actually so good at it. He’s got skills from when he was sign spinning, and he has really sturdy legs. So jumping around and spinning is a breeze for him.

John is actually very graceful?? I imagine he was one of those football players that took ballet to be better at playing. Like his parents or coach made him do it. So he’s really good at keeping time and keeping balance.

say what you want about them as a team, but John and Bob would absolutely DESTROY the rest of the Thunderbolts* when it comes to Just Dance battles

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Oh he would definitely just let them keep doing it.

He believes it at first. Of course Ava doesn’t know how to use a washing machine, she grew up in a lab and probably just wore weird hospital gowns all the time. Of course Yelena doesn’t know how to use a dishwasher, she was brainwashed most of her life, probably never had to use one. Of course Bucky doesn’t know how to an air fryer, he’s pretty sure microwaves weren’t even a thing before Bucky got captured.

But then they keep doing it, over and over with the same stuff. It takes about three repetitions for him to get what they’re doing. And he just lets them. He likes feeling useful, he likes to teach people how to do things. It’s a little mansplain-y, but they know he’s just trying to help the best way he knows how.

Ava and Yelena use weaponized incompetence to make John do things for them.

That's how he started to cook for them and do the laundry. It started as a joke between Ava and Yelena but it started to work, the more they faked not knowing how the washing machine works, the more John stepped in to show them how it's done.

Eventually the rest catch up with what they are doing. Bob isn't really sure to be part of it (what if he finds out and gets angry at him, no thanks) but Bucky is kinda having a blast with it and Alexei didn't know what they are doing, he just really don't know how the coffee machine works lol

Does John find out what they are doing or is he just happy to let them get away with it because it feels good to do things for them??????

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I love this!!

In the same vein of thought; I really hope we get more interaction with Yelena and Kate Bishop, so we can have a Black Widow and Hawkeye moment again.

This edit is very special to me. Also I’m not shipping walker with yelena at all but I think they Could have a special relationship like Steve and nat 💔

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Yelena : So, i have a new brother. Bob : Great ! But, hum.. Who ? Yelena, slamming adoption papers on the table : It's you, sign here.

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“nothing tastes as good as skinny feels”

damn you must suck at cooking. check out some youtube tutorials man. i believe in you.

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Honestly, with this new wave of Marvel that we’re getting, I am loving seeing the weird/uncommon ships. That’s like the whole point of shipping in a fandom, they’re not really going to happen (I hate to say it, really). You scrap together any small amount of evidence for your out of pocket ship, like .5 seconds of a clip of your ship making eye contact. “OH MY GOD THEYRE IN LOVE, DID YOU SEE HOW THEY LOOK AT EACH OTHER???!!??” And then like, 50 other people are like “YES!!! THEY ARE SO MEANT FOR EACH OTHER!!!!!!!” It’s such a great thing to see :)

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He should have become a stay-at-home husband for Sam.

My guy needs a break, PLEASE!!!

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This is so well put, good job op!

I would like to also add a small bit of what I think to this.

I feel like people are not educated on bipolar disorder in general, so understanding some of the specifics of Bob/Sentry/Void and how they represent bipolar is difficult. There are so many experiences that come with it that are not talked about. I love that Marvel has introduced an outlet for this kind of conversation, they actually did well in my opinion (not perfect of course).

A few symptoms of bipolar (I'm guessing type 1 for Bob) that are not commonly known is psychosis, memory loss, and gradual brain damage, plus others (I am not a medical professional, I have just done some research/experienced bipolar myself). Psychosis can happen in both extremes, mania and depression. And sometimes, memory loss an outcome of this. So, I wasn't really surprised when he just went along with the moment when he "woke up" and couldn't remember anything. This was probably a common occurrence for him, especially adding in his meth addiction which most likely worsened these symptoms.

I totally get how people could take away D.I.D. from this portrayal, having someone refer to certain moods of themselves by a different name can make one assume such things. But as someone who does live with bipolar (2), I too refer to my depression and hypomania as something that isn't me. Because the thoughts and feelings that come from these intense moods are not from me. I don't want to die, I love my friends and family and myself, I enjoy the world and all it has to offer. But when I'm in a depression, my brain tells me the opposite, therefore it is not me.

It really is cool to see this disorder portrayed in such a popular media outlet. I believe it really opens up the table for more conversations and education for it. And I think it was well fleshed out and thought about; using accurate wording for it (even though they don't actually say bipolar I don't think) like "delusion of grandeur" and "high highs/low lows". It is actual wording that is used to describe bipolar. The idea of having a superhero with powers that correlate to this disorder is so cool.

Op did very well on explaining the details of how Bob/Sentry/Void represent bipolar disorder and how somethings are specific to Bob!

Bob is slowly (lets be real, very quickly lol) becoming my new favorite character in marvel. I am very excited to see where they take him and how they keep his story expanding.

About Sentry, Void and what they're really like

Sentry, Void and Bob are all the same, they have the same traumas, fears, self-doubts and insecurities, because they are one person. The only difference is that Sentry has powers (he is Bob’s mania; mania – feeling that you can do anything; this feeling + serum = Sentry, who bc of the serum actually can do anything. That’s the only thing he’s confident in – his invincibility, his superpowers, that will allow him to do whatever he wants, because that’s what he is, but that’s it (!), because he’s still Bob). And then there is Void, who’s about absolute loneliness and hopelessness.

Some may be confused by the way they talk about each other, as if they’re separate personalities (for example, Bob calling Void "it", Sentry saying to Val "it's not Robert you need to be afraid of" and when John calls him Bobby, corrects him by saying "you can call me Sentry", Bob not remembering anything (at first) after Sentry or Void take over, or how Void was talking to Bob at the end), SO I’m adding what i wrote in other posts here:

THEY separate themselves from each other, of course they do, they are not his normal self, they are his mental disorder.

A bit more about it:

Bob has mental illnesses inherited from his mother and his own (as a result of a terrible life). The main one is bipolar, almost certainly passed down from his mom.

After he was injected with the serum it was like his bipolar was pumped with the strongest steroids and now his mental illness exists beyond human levels, as Sentry and Void (Mel talked about this, that give a serum to someone like Bob and who knows what will happen. Well now we know).

Moving on to the next one:

the key moment that a lot of people don’t seem to understand: they have never known love or care, never had a single person who was even a little worried about them or genuinely cared for them. They have zero confidence that anyone will ever need them, even more than that, they are sure of the opposite. They are very traumatized, all of them, they suffer exactly the same, because they are one.

I didn't think it was necessary to write about it because it's literally shown in every scene, but I'm shocked at how many people didn't get it at all, so.

With Bob himself, I think it's all clear to everyone, thankfully.

About Void:

He repeats throughout the movie that they (Bob/Sentry/Void) will always be alone, he says this to both Bob and Yelena (even though she hugs Bob at this moment, and yet)

He also says "you think they care about you? you don’t matter to anyone" and "the most shameful thing of all is thinking you could be anything more than nothing".

For him, there is no hope. He doesn't believe anyone will ever stay with them because all their life no one ever did, everyone always left/betrayed/hurt them. He also doesn’t believe that they’ll ever be worth anything at all, that they’ll be anything at all to anyone. The way he keeps confidently repeating that they will always be alone shows that he has given up hope that someone will ever truly love them. He's not a mystical tough guy as a lot of people love to portray. He's a severe depression, an absolute hopeless loneliness (and it’s obvious, it’s all in his name).

About Sentry:

1) Desire to be praised and loved

The first person who says a kind word to him, tells him that he is worth something, he immediately follows that person and does whatever he is told, even though he is not sure that he wants to. He does it to please, to be useful, finally believing in himself because of her and wanting to prove her right.

2) Kindness

Him being kind to those who he'd known for a couple days at most, and not even through his “own eyes”.

He listens to Valentina, even when she says she plans to use him so she won't be impeached. He's okay with that. Until she gives him the order to kill the bolts. He doesn't want to do that, even though this is the first time he's interacted with them himself, only having seen them through “Bob's eyes”. He doesn't want to hurt them, and he tells them that. He offers them to surrender and he offers it sincerely, smiling awkwardly and shrugging his shoulders, nodding a little at the thought that it's a good suggestion:

He doesn't even attack them; it's Alexei who jumps on him first, screaming.

And even when they come at him with knives and bullets, he just pushes John, Yelena and Ava away most of the time (he doesn't know Bucky and Alexei, so it's different with them).

All of that screams in everyone’s faces that he's not "I'm going to kill everyone, I'm so badass" (like some people hilariously think) but that he won’t really hurt anyone who isn't a threat to him (even if they kinda tried to hurt him, but he knows their intentions, so he’s not upset with them). He calmly and kindly asked them to surrender, again because he's trying to please Valentina, but also because he didn’t want to fight them (just because Bob knew them for a day and they helped him).

3) Insecurity

As soon as the guys don't even ridicule him, but just ask him what's wrong with his hair and the way he looks, he can't leave this topic alone, he gets all worked up, saying he doesn't like it, even though Valentina tells him to leave it alone and not to let other people's words affect him. 

It shows that his giant ego is only related to his great strength, but he has no self-confidence in anything else.

4) The realization that yet another person is trying to tell him how to live and what to do:

To her "you need to do what i say" he simply asks why. 

He thought they were going to act as a team, but it turns out they want to put a leash on him, and he won't let that happen. He's part of Bob, and Bob has lived his whole life under someone else's commands and orders. 

Sentry is also honestly tells her that she doesn't know what he's capable of, and he's right, she doesn't. 

That’s the only thing he’s so sure of, his strength. (again, ironically, because of her).

5) People betraying and hurting Bob (+Sentry/Void) all his life

This scene breaks my heart every fucking time. 

When she reaches for the button to kill him. 

Kill him because she doesn't care, like all the others before her. 

Look at his face when he realized what she wanted to do.

And his words after, "You were gonna turn on me, just like the rest of them" 

And that says EVERYTHING about Sentry (and Bob, and Void). About all of them and their severe trauma.

They want at least one person in their life who won't betray them or try to hurt them.

Sentry started listening to Valentina when she, again, only said a few kind words to him. He obediently did what she told him to do, even though he didn't want to, all so that someone would stand by him and tell him he was worth something. 

And it ended just like so many times before in Bob’s life – no one cared about him as a person and about what he wanted.

All of Bob, all sides of him, want someone for the first time in their life to be there for them, support them and see their worth.

And the further it goes, the worse it gets:

Bob is hopeful, even though there’s so much pain and sadness in him. 

Sentry is hopeful too, but there's an aggression in him when faced with attempts to trick him, to manipulate him again. 

and Void – no hope at all.

And lastly, I'll add:

when Sentry becomes close to the bolts just as Bob is, he will be ready to kill anyone for them and to die himself (which thankfully is almost impossible).

Everyone’s screaming that Bob is a sweetheart, but so is Sentry (and so is Void)

They all want to be loved and understood and to matter to someone.

again quoting Florence Pugh

Bob – cute and sad

Sentry – trying and traumatized

and I’ll add from myself

Void – beyond depressed and hopeless

and I love all of them, all of Bob, very very much

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Yes!! I feel like a lot of people took their interactions as romantic fodder. I really do see Walker as a growing fatherly/brotherly figure to Bob. I also hated him before watching Thunderbolts*, but having him interact with his new teammates (especially Bob) made me reconsider him as a character.

And I totally see him becoming more unhinged. The death of Lemar (and John brutally killing someone publicly in revenge), the loss of the title and respect of Captain America and a veteran, and his wife and child leaving him. Mix that with some super soldier serum and a power complex, it could lead him to loosing some sanity.

Cue John realizing he has a second chance at some sort of family and is willing to do anything to keep it. Yeah he’s still an asshole, but he doesn’t want to loose this funky little guy they found in an incinerator vault.

The first thing John Walker does after becoming a Thunderbolt is find out if Bob's parents are still alive. If not, he reassures Bob they'll never find him. If they are, he goes to kill them

(Used to despise Walker, I even said before I saw this film I hope he dies in Doomsday. No, he will be one of the best father figures Bob has ever had. I know the headcanon sounds implausible really now he's a government hero, but I love the idea of unhinged morally ambiguous Walker.)

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I think it would be cool too if it went the other way with the Void as well. Like whenever he has a bad day, and he gets closer to the Void he gets colder. So maybe one of his teammates accidentally brush against him or they grab for the same thing, and they feel how cold he is. Then they know that he is struggling with the Void and try to help somehow.

seeing a lot of writers describing bob's touch as warm in a lot of fics, which makes sense with the whole "power of a thousand suns" schtick or something along those lines

thinking of bob getting used to all the changes in his body. his abs, the way he doesn't get winded anymore, his newfound strength. thinking of bob noticing the fact that his hands (feet too, perhaps) are no longer freezing like they were when he was an active drug addict.

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C:<

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Oh, 100%. The first few interactions he has with Walker is him calling him an asshole and making fun of him for being “Captain America”. He can totally dish it out once he gets comfortable.

I'm pretty confident once bob gets comfortable and is in the right mood he's a certified YAPPER