syscourse-dialogue

[syscourse-dialogue]

Same anon as before; I see what everyone means and I actually after reading the comments agree that I probably could ID as mixed origin I get it now, I just think I’m too autistic and take the word origin too literally like my brain is like if your original plurality reason is traumagenic then your system origin is traumagenic which means everything is bc of trauma bc that’s how my brain is like, yeah that’s what the word origin means 😭 I think it’s my issue with black and white thinking. I need to loosen up on that. I’m really trying to it just doesn’t compute in my mind. Like I feel like my system origin is traumagenic, and even tho some of my alters are definitely considered willogenic I feel as though without the trauma I never would’ve gained the ability to have alters at all so I feel that classes me as traumagenic. I’m so caught up on this like, idk how to let go of dictionary definitions even with other things like if someone uses a word slightly different than what I know it to mean it drives me to a breakdown lol. Like in my mind words have to mean things and have definitions and I don’t understand why people have to ID outside of those. Like my brain is saying to me that if you originally had trauma and that gave you the ability to have alters you’re traumagenic. And if you never had the childhood trauma to have a CDD you’re endogenic. And I understand that different alters could be willogenic. I myself the one typing this am a spiritual walk in and technically count as spirogenic. But I just don’t believe that I could exist here without the body having the ability to have alters through our CDD. And I think my issue is the word origin. Sorry this is long I’m trying to work out my own thoughts. Like I feel like system origin and alter origin need to be two different classifications then to make it make sense to me. Like my system is traumagenic in origin but our alters are traumaendo. I feel like that makes more sense but no one separates the origin classification and the alter classification and it confuses us.

Glad to see that others were able to respond and help out. I 100% get why it may be hard to understand and really enjoyed reading your perspective on it. I'm really glad to see perspectives like this as I don't tend to see them, at least explained, often.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Guys if endogenic and traumagenic are origins of system hood, I don’t understand mixed origins? If you became a system due to trauma then you are traumagenic, even if your alters came to be in different ways after that your ability to split in the first place is still traumagenic. I feel like if everyone who started with trauma just used this format there’d be a lot less confusion from anti-endos as to what is going on.

I think this may be a good place to turn it over to mixed origin systems to explain their reasoning behind using the label and what their personal experiences with it are. If you'd like to help with this feel free to reblog or send asks.

[syscourse-dialogue]

I think the more "standard" traumagenic traits a system has, the more likely they are to be traumagenic. The less traumagenic traits a system has the less likely they are to be traumagenic. An endogenic system could have distress and dysfunction, but it wouldn't change the fact that at the core they're endogenic, and didn't form from trauma. A tramagenic system could also get along and have zero distress, but it wouldn't change the fact that they're traumagenic. Each one has a distinct "vibe" and way of interacting, but the more traits of either one has the easier it is to tell the difference. Basically, sometimes you just know (and because people in this tag jump to conclusions and are often ableist, I'm saying that as a disabled person who's been through trauma). You (sometimes) just know, same way how some suspect others are queer (saying this as a queer individual) and how you yourself might get the vibe that you're not cishet, even if you can't consciously place a finger on it. Nobody should be using that to gatekeep others or push others out of the community, as even someone who think's your origin is one thing can be wrong and you should let people have their own journeys, but this has been my experience.

Thank you for sharing anon. It was very interesting to read.

[syscourse-dialogue]

We believe two systems with the exact same experiences could identify with different origins depending on their interpretation. Like, if a system was bullied as a child and decided to create "imaginary friends" to cope with bullying and loneliness. They might identify as traumagenic because their headmates were created through trauma. They might identify as created because their headmates were created by them willingly. Another example, if a system has some headmates who are related to traumatic experiences and some who are connected to positive experiences. They might identify as traumagenic because their capacity to split was due to trauma. Or they might identify as mixed origins since some headmates come from trauma and others not. A big part of origins is perspective. If the two experiences had nothing at all in common, we wouldn't have so many systems who change their origin labels after learning more about themselves. There wouldn't be so many who identify somewhere in the middle or as both. There is overlap.

That being said, there are some generalized differences when you zoom out and look at community trends instead of individuals. Traumagenic system spaces tend to focus more on trauma, disordered experiences, dealing with symptoms, diagnoses, etc. Endogenic system spaces tend to focus more on exploration of identity and selves-expression. Key words here are TEND TO. And it also depends on individual communities. Some endogenic communities don't offer resources for trauma survivors and aren't equipped to help those looking for symptom management advice. Some do have resources and channels dedicated to talking about symptoms or difficult experiences. It depends! We hang out in pro-endo spaces with a mix of endogenic, traumagenic, no origins, mixed, some with trauma, some without, some who don't share about that, etc. etc. Sometimes we meet another system and we relate to them a lot and sometimes we don't relate to them a lot. Most of the time origins doesn't matter at all.

Sure, if an endogenic system has no traumatic experiences and a good childhood with loving parents, they probably won't relate much to a traumagenic system whose childhood was a huge traumatic wound with abusive parents. They might not understand. Or they might! Maybe they have a friend who went through something similar and they're more informed. It depends! A traumagenic system who went through abuse at the church might relate more to an endogenic system who went through similar trauma and they might not relate much to a traumagenic system who loves their church and found support and love there. It depends!

Man, it's almost like we're all people or whatever… 😂

Thank you for adding your perspective to the conversation. There is so much good nuance here.

[syscourse-dialogue]

We see a lot of people who see endogenics and traumagenics as distinctly different from one another. So how could one tell the difference if not told what origin someone is and with no access to the technology for brain scans? If you don't believe there is a distinct difference how do you think those who do would answer a question like this?

Please refrain from hate filled attacks against any individual, syscourse stance, or identity. These will be deleted/users blocked.

Feel free to utilize anons for anonymity.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Which topics in syscourse are you most passionate about?

Which topics would you like to see discussed in syscourse more often?

Which topics do you wish were discussed less?

Please refrain from hate filled attacks against any individual, syscourse stance, or identity. These will be deleted/users blocked.

Feel free to utilize anons for anonymity.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Please refrain from hate filled attacks against any individual, syscourse stance, or identity. These will be deleted/users blocked.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Fair warning this account has made a return after a long break. Please block if you haven't already and reblog to let other systems know what's going on.

Just wanted to give everyone fair warning about the account with the username cringey-systems. If you haven't been made aware yet they are reblogging all systems content regardless of diagnosis, origin or any syscourse opinions with tags such as cringe and fake. This effects all systems. Our community is their source for content and they need to be blocked or they will keep stealing and fakeclaiming our posts.

I am using this account apart from its normal purpose because this is important and not related to our syscourse opinions so that won't play a factor in who listens. Sorry in advance for the crazy tagging. I just wanted to cast as wide a net as possible as this is important to all systems. I've been seeing more posts in single sides of syscourse exclusive tags and wanted to make sure no one was missed.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Congratulations @pos-syscourse It's been an honor to go up against you as I appreciate your blog so much. Good luck going forward! I really hope you win this.

Round 2 Side B: Dialogue VS Pos!

Get your votes in for either @syscourse-dialogue or @pos-syscourse! Below the cut are submission info for these two participants!

Good luck and happy voting!

Reminder: These polls are completely subjective. However you define a "better" syscourser, that's how you should vote!

An anon submission for Syscourse-Dialogue really sang their praises!

I'd like to submit syscourse-dialogue. I really appreciate how they promote conversation between those with opposing opinions. I really respect them for promoting and creating a space for that.

It seems these two competitors are perfectly matched -- two syscoursers who try to bridge the gaps between opposing opinions, either for discussion or for positivity!

Pos won their previous bracket quite strongly due to their competitor being less active and leaving syscourse for the most part. Can they still win against this more present blogger?

[syscourse-dialogue]

I know people who choose to identify as queer. My best friend, for instance. He is gender-nonconforming. He is queer, he is apart of the queer community, BECAUSE of his gender-nonconformity + androgyny. He chooses to be so, it is an active choice he makes. That doesn’t make him less queer or that he’s invading queer spaces; he is simply a man who chooses to be queer despite not being “born” so.

Thank you for sharing this. It's interesting to see others personal experiences with this.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Claiming that queerness is a choice is objectively queerphobic. It’s homophobic to say being gay is a choice. It’s transphobic to say being trans is a choice.

Thank you for adding your opinion to the conversation.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Just for fun:

[syscourse-dialogue]

Since queer discourse is the topic of conversation in the tag today:

Please refrain from hate filled attacks against any individual, syscourse stance, or identity. These will be deleted/users blocked.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Please refrain from hate filled attacks against any individual, syscourse stance, or identity. These will be deleted/users blocked.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Wishing you good luck @pos-syscourse

So glad to be going up against a blog so similar to mine that I respect so much. I'm excited to see how this turns out.

Round 2 Side B: Dialogue VS Pos!

Get your votes in for either @syscourse-dialogue or @pos-syscourse! Below the cut are submission info for these two participants!

Good luck and happy voting!

Reminder: These polls are completely subjective. However you define a "better" syscourser, that's how you should vote!

An anon submission for Syscourse-Dialogue really sang their praises!

I'd like to submit syscourse-dialogue. I really appreciate how they promote conversation between those with opposing opinions. I really respect them for promoting and creating a space for that.

It seems these two competitors are perfectly matched -- two syscoursers who try to bridge the gaps between opposing opinions, either for discussion or for positivity!

Pos won their previous bracket quite strongly due to their competitor being less active and leaving syscourse for the most part. Can they still win against this more present blogger?

[syscourse-dialogue]

Systems who identify as medically recognized why do you use the term for yourself? Is there a reason you don't want/can't get a diagnosis?

Please refrain from hate filled attacks against any individual, syscourse stance, or identity. These will be deleted/users blocked.

Feel free to utilize anons for anonymity.

[syscourse-dialogue]

Systems what does anti-recovery mean to you? What can or can't be classified under that label?

What does recovery look like?

Please refrain from hate filled attacks against any individual, syscourse stance, or identity. These will be deleted/users blocked.

Feel free to utilize anons for anonymity.