#<- not byler-related but i'm sure you guys like it

[stranger-chichka]

*Slipping Through My Fingers by ABBA is playing in the background*

[love-byers]

What do you think about people saying that us Bylers are not supporting Robin as a character and they only see her as a gay mentor for Mike & Will? That we only see Rovickie as gay mentors for them. Some people are saying that because we pay alot of attention to Byler that it overshadowed Robin of her coming out as lesbian, personally i disagree with this, obviously everybody has their own opinions but I we can also voice our own. With Robin, I obviously see her as her own character yk? I don't see her as just a gay mentor for the kids, Robin is her own person, Rovickie is their own ship, I know it may look like I probably just see her as just a gay mentor but it's really not like that, she is an absolutely amazing character, she is for sure as hell a good example for people who are in the closet? I feel the same with Rovickie. Rovickie is their own ship, but I really don't see anything wrong with wanting them to guide Mike & Will, it's a necessity imo because their soo young and they don't know how to deal with all of this (especially in the 80s) they need help and guidance. But yeah I went on a whole rant haha, BTW I'm sorry if I don't explain well lol

i actually just saw the thing you're talking about and screenshotted it to post here!! i honestly think its so dumb. and i dont just say that because im a byler fan and feel attacked

if you're a byler fan and run a byler account, no shit you're going to mostly post about byler. if you don't run a robin blog/account you probably don't mention her as much as whatever your account is dedicated to. i do talk about other ST topics and general theories but its mostly byler. because thats just what i like to talk about. so yes a lot of the time when i mention other characters its in relation to byler, not always though. that doesn't mean i dont like the characters or only view them as support beams for byler.

as a lesbian i love robin and think she's wonderful representation. i heard it was maya hawke's idea which i think means robin was originally going to be straight and just didn't see steve that way so it was going to be about him accepting the fact that a girl doesn't like him just because. but i'm so happy maya suggested that because its eons better than the original. robin is a great character and i think her coming out scene is so perfect and well written. her fear is so relatable, that feeling when you realize your guy friend likes you but you really do love him and don't want to lose him? its scary. and maya portrayed that beautifully. seeing her be accepted by steve was so emotional and also really important.

but i don't say all of that every day because i'm not a robin blog. i've posted about her/rovickie a few times without relation to byler, but yes i frequently mention parallels and mike and will interacting with robin and vickie in s5. because i am absolutely PUMPED FOR THAT. will is my favorite character and i think it would be really touching to see him interact with another queer person and feel like he can finally open up and feel safe while doing it. i don't know why some people think we're evil for wanting that. like its such a real thing for queer youth, making your first gay friend, perhaps someone a bit older and more realized/confident, and being SO happy that you can speak freely and be yourself. i want that for will who at this point in the story feels like a mistake, and of course mike makes him feel better about that as he said, but he cant speak freely around him. he could do that with robin. he probably feels like the only gay person in hawkins, so imagine how happy he would be to find out there's MORE!! THEY EXIST!! YOU'RE NOT ALONE!!!!

if you don't want to see queer characters connect especially in the 80s i honestly don't know what to say. you've got some serious pettiness problems if you don't want that

and i also hate the trend of diehard ST fans acting like the characters are real people. they're made up. you can't hurt their feelings. getting offended on behalf of a character is some real chronically online behavior.

there is no quota on how many times you have to post about a certain character. its your account and they're not real people so you can do WHATEVER YOU WANT. for every post you make relating robin to will or rovickie to byler, you don't have to make another post talking about how great robin is to make up for it. that's stupid. i seriously dont know what they expect when they go on a BYLER ACCOUNT.

i used to get attacked on twt for only mentioning el in relation to byler, which first of all wasn't true, but even if it was WHO CARES??? i was a byler account literally WHAT DID THEY EXPECT??? it hurts no one. people just hate byler fans (which honestly i lowkey understand cause some of us are terribly annoying) and look for any reason to sound justified when they express that hate.

you dont have to equally divide your love and attention to all the characters. you don't. at all.

[pholiabanna]

I am in different parts of the ST fandom. The reason why people describe Mike like that is that he is perceived as a typical self insert masculine nerd guy. Not many audience members self-project onto Steve or Dustin. They just like Steve but Steve is not exactly relatable to them. Dustin is seen as a funny guy but. Mike? Mike is someone you can project yourself onto. He is the nerd 'loser' leader kid who gets to have a superpowered girlfriend who happens to be the show's protagonist. In my observation, Mike's character represents that to the other parts of the audience. That's why they say him being bisexual/gay would ruin his character and the show since Mlvn has been there since S1.

I personally think it is why it's significant to actually make Byler canon and show that Mike 'isnt the straightest dude' as some of the audience thought him to be. It would be really subversive.

This makes a lot of sense, actually. But once you are too deep into the byler fandom it's funny to hear people refer to Mike "one way sign" Wheeler as the straightest guy you've ever seen. Hopefully, when his attraction to boys is confirmed, some of those people who project onto him so much also realize some things about themselves (🏳️‍🌈, I'm pretty sure amongst all of them there's some repressed dudes in denial)

[spicybylerpolls]

'Mike doesn't express sexual interest in the Phoebe Cates, the hot girl of the day, like his friends'

why am i the only person who doesn't see the mike/phoebe cates thing as disgust?

the conversation re: suzie goes:

will: girls go to science camp??

dustin: suzie does, she's a genius-

mike: is she cute?!

dustin: think phoebe cates, only hotter.

max: what's going on?

will: we're going to talk to dustin's girlfriend!

there's so much in this conversation, i especially love the walk-and-talk vibe of the scene taking its inspiration from shows like the west wing which pioneered that technique to keep characters moving and show larger objectives. the gang are not static, showing that meeting dustins's girlfriend and seeing his radio are top priority right now. however, the convo is about girls, and suzie, and not the radio, giving romance double importance and setting the tone for the season: nerdery vs puberty.

will's line shows his ongoing lack of knowledge of girls. ding ding ding! queercoding + great characterisation for will.

dustin's line then shows his respect of women overall, but with an emphasis on how amazing suzie is. supportive bf dustin!

notice how mike is the one to bring up physical attraction, and he even CUTS DUSTIN OFF TO SAY THIS. eager much? it's interesting that el is right behind him here, making this chat about hotness performative, as if he's asserting himself both in front of her and his friends. 'i'm a guy who can talk about girls.' this is a loaded characterisation for mike, and keeps the byler plot twist obscured, as it's meant to.

BUT mike is already making a face of incredulity when he asks if suzie is cute. dustin's response is more Supportive Bf Dustin (applause), but mike's response face, in the context of him being the one to ask if she's cute or not (a.k.a. turn the topic to the potential attractiveness of girls), does not, on the surface, mean he is disgusted with suzie or girls in general. it means he's incredulous that anyone could possibly be hotter than phoebe cates.

does this mean mike actually thinks phoebe cates is hot? NO. but he is currently PERFORMING masculinity and heteronormativity for el's sake and for his friends sake and for his own god damn sake. so that response face was not and COULD NOT be actual genuine disgust at phoebe cates and/or girls, because that would give his game away IN FULL VIEW of all his friends who is walking and talking towards and amongst. in the context of the scene, he's clearly performing the required 'bro' response to someone saying that it's possible to be hotter than phoebe cates: i.e. surely not, impossible, she's the hottest woman alive.

viewing this moment as disgust is totally misunderstanding mike and his performance of heteronormativity. it's still performance, but performed outrage/incredulity.

agree - disagree

if you don't agree, would love to hear why!

Please note that the purpose of this blog is not to be creepy or to make anyone uncomfortable. That's why I created the #spicy byler tag (I will tag all polls with this). If you don't want to see this blog or anything related to it on your feed, please block that tag. Not everyone is comfortable with this sorta stuff, and that's okay.

[byierficrecs]

the year has come to an end. i hope you guys had a nice year; you're all amazing and i've been having a really nice time interacting with everyone here :] may any hardships you've experienced be solved promptly~

this year was not really kind to me (as i'm sure you're aware; i talk about personal stuff far too much x.x), but writing and making graphics for this fandom has really helped me and i genuinely want to thank everyone for being so kind and making me feel a bit better ^-^

as it's the end of the year, i believe some stats are in order! in three months i've

spent almost 540 hours making graphics;

taught myself to make aforementioned graphics;

read the works of 66 unique writers;

read 1,196,725 words

(which means i read approximately 2400 pages);

and made graphics for 89 stories!

i'm not sure anyone's noticed, but i like to alternate between pastel, colourful and dark aesthetics~

i would like to once again thank everyone who's interacted with this account in any form. be it a like, a rb, an ask or sending me a message, you've all been kind and i hope i can continue to make more stuff that you like~ the "slots" for next month are almost full, so i'll keep this train going for as long as i can~

(that said, i /am/ taking a one-week break once the 12 days of christmas are over x.x i am tired)

lastly, i would like to thank the authors whose works have been shared! thank you so much for all the work you do for this fandom, and for gifting us with beautiful stories to fill the void of no-content. let it be known that we appreciate you all a lot, and that without you this byler fandom thingy would be far darker and infinitely more boring. i wish you luck in any creative endeavours you might have (byler-related or otherwise), and i can't wait to see what other beauty you bring to this world 💖

@andiwriteordie, @anemori, @astrobei, @bookinit02, @buck-yyyy, @byeler, @byleresque, @bylerisc4non, @champion-rowlet, @chiquitablanquita, @claryfrayed, @clericxpaladin, @elmaxed, @etchedstars, @futureboy-ao3, @ghoulsanderson, @gleefcll, @hellfire-byler, @hiscleric, @itsromeowrites, @kastuud0n, @kiirotoao, @lilacline001, @nastyaex, @octopusoptimusprime, @perexcri, @saelotusline, @scout-the-wise, @sevensided, @smoosnoom, @strangerange1s, @strangersynth, @twelfthbite, @untitled-byler-blog, @uranium-suite, @voulezvulcan, @wheelerboi, @willuvbot, @wiseatom, @zombiewheeler

i'm probably missing people whose blogs i don't know or who just don't have a tumblr account; i'll add more people as i find them, but even if someone's not listed, i thank you sincerely for everything you do. you're all very talented!

anyway, i think i've rambled long enough. i shall leave for now, but i'll see you tomorrow! happy new year! i hope everyone accomplishes everything you set out to do this year :]

- - - - - - - - - - -

sincerely, angel 🧸

[castlebyersafterdark]

as a gay guy, what's your opinion on periods and period sex? it might seem anachronistic to ask but i saw a video where finn was with friends and was saying periods are disgusting haha, and i can see that or that he was maybe just being all sassy and loose cos he was playing it up in that dynamic of a group. this was a while ago anyway but it got me thinking, cos i've known straight guys who are fine with period sex but also ones who dont even want to acknowledge that periods exist haha, and it made me wonder because if you knew you were gay from a teen and never experimented with girls, was it taught in schools? is it taboo for you? i always thought there might be this affinity between women and gay men because most of each group engage with something typically considered disgusting and taboo (anal sex and periods) and get on with it / see the beauty in it.

idk how this relates to byler or foah, but maybe that finn clip is just something i keep thinking about haha (it was the time when he was wearing false nails with friends lmao)

Interesting ask! My opinion is... it's just a non issue? Maybe I personally don't need to hear extensive details, but that goes for many bodily functions haha. And I don't think Finn is truly unkind, but you know how guys get sometimes. Annoying. We all say immature shit 🤷‍♂️The body isn't disgusting. It just is what it is, does what it does. And yeah, society has stupid hangups - I see the correlation you're getting at with anal sex, for sure. It's the concept of being normal and mature about bodies. We all know what an ass is for 🤣 But that's absolutely not the only thing. So, if you're with someone who has a period and sex is a possibility - I don't really see the problem if both parties involved are into each other and want to do that. To each their own. You can also maybe not want to do it, but don't be unkind, is all. Body positivity is key.

I'm never gonna be in a situation where the person I'm sleeping with has that as a factor, if that's what you’re getting at. I did actually try to date a few girls when I was a teenager but, yikes. Never got very far hahaha. But it's not like women (and those who otherwise experience this) are so super mysterious. It's not secret knowledge. Moral of the story: I just know for a fact that many men are purposefully obtuse or immature. Sexism. All that. Simplifying the issue but for the purpose of this ask! 💁‍♂️

Also, to relate this a little to fandom: I've read people's headcanons and ideas on here they've shared and not everything has to be hot to everyone, sometimes things are just super interesting. And I really do think it's a nice concept where a character who is in pain and needs some loving, and if having sex during will help that, that's an awesome concept that their partner is into doing that to help them through it, double cool if that's a way to both get off. Fictional and in reality. Like I said, to each their own. But I can understand how people find it hot. And even things that are not completely relevant to my life and inclination, man it's just cool to have spaces and opportunities to talk things out and share ideas, right???

[bugsbenefit]

mike apparently has more trauma then el will and max to some of you let’s be real you guys keep creating problems for that kid to have. Hell some of you give their problems to HIM like what’s up with all the father abuse shit, we don’t know anything about Ted only that he’s an absent father. He’s not abusive like Lonnie is mike is not getting abused. Mike also didn’t go through upside down shit he’s just the side character helping el and Will since s2 let’s be fr. “Has connections to all the characters” so does hopper. Sure his character arc needs to be done but he’s not gonna be as important as el and will or heck max because she’s literally in a coma and we don’t know her fate.

I can still watch the show and not care about this guy it’s very easy to do the duffers made him unlikable anyway. If byler does happen im okay with it because it’s what Will deserves but if I were to write the show mike would not be with him. He would be with a less annoying person. But going back to him just not being as important it’s literally true I remember the fandom hating on mike when season 4 just finished but ppl have deluded themselves so hard they made him 100000 issues to uwufy him so they could excuse all the weird shit he’s done. “Hes seen wills body come out of the water” so did all his friends why are we always focusing on this kid when Will has other friends.

If I were to write the show Will would also be interacting with all the rest of the characters instead of being glued to mikes side. But that’s just me haaha

i swear is this all the same person??? what's in the water today?

and holy shit can someone finally tell me where the people are hiding that "steal" other characters plots? Mike has more trauma than anyone else... who ever said that. where are the Ted is physcially abusive people i've never seen them... have you considered just unfollowing accounts that say things that annoy you? because i've never seen any of these takes, only people complaining about them, and i'm doing great vibing on my dash

and please do tell me how Hopper has connections to all the characters, i'd love to hear your reasoning for this. Hopper has never interacted with Lucas, Dustin or Max. also none of the teens like Nancy or Jonathan. if i wanted to make the argument that Anyone else could somehow have as many on screen relationships as Mike (there isn't anyone) Hopper would be one of the last people i'd go for because he only exists in direct relation to the Byers and El plots. he doesn't get involved with anyone outside of those

nothing of what you're saying is even worth arguing with at this point, you're just really mad about a character existing and trying to rationalize how that character won't be important for the finale despite that being where the story is headed. Mike isn't going to "steal" anyone's plots or traumas i don't know why you even think that. he's a separate character with individual experiences and unique trauma. he's not going to take anything away from other characters

"why are we focusing on Mike" have you heard of cinematography before? ask the show why we're constantly getting close ups of Mike crying in these situations instead of Will's other friends. i'm not sitting here zooming in on Mike's face anytime something happens to Will or El. the show is nice and already blast the close up right over our screens because shockingly Mike's reactions seem to matter here somehow

but anyway explaining all of this to someone who just wants to complain is probably a waste of time. but as you already pointed out yourself, you're not the one writing the show so what you would do is thankfully irrelevant

[emblazons]

What’s sad is it clear you guys only watch for byler and think it’s the byler show since every little detail is supposedly about them what about the other characters why don’t you freeze frame them? Because they’re already valid girls and desperation go hand in hand.

Legit it’s not “gay things” or “mlm fetishers” although it should be when you guys watch witn you’re binocular spectacles 💀

Listen...I usually just ignore shit like this but you got the right one today, which is honestly what you deserve.

Not sure what's going on with all of you random hate anons targeting byler accounts all of a sudden (maybe the spam bot revival encouraged you to act this obnoxious?) but: of all the accounts you could have sent this ask to, I have to be the funniest—

—considering I have not posted about Byler or Mike and Will's relationship in nearly a goddamn week...because I'm too busy pointing out shit with Hopper, Brenner, Henry/Vecna, El & Max and even Murray, where he's related, and with those "freeze frames" analyses you think only happen when you notice an already semi-canonical romance in a show about embracing nonconformity like the tragic human being incapable of critical thought because you're too busy defending a mediocre ship you are.

Take your ignorant, homophobic takes and asinine commentary back to reddit where the rest of the "its not that deep" cesspool thinkers congregate and f*ck off my blog. And I won't even say "thank you," because its more respect than you deserve—none.

[timetobeaghost]

how do you ship byler and support a homophobe (who named herself after a guy who tortured gay people, never writes gay characters, only brings up gay people to attack trans people, supported Johnny Depp who is super homophobic)

seriously wtf

This shit is completely made up, zero relation to reality.

She wrote Dumbledore as gay and a tragic love story with Grindelwald, which is like my second favorite ship. She is now writing an entire film franchise with this gay relationship at the forefront. JKR wrote and is still writing Grindeldore, how do you not know this?

How is Johnny Depp super homophobic? I heard a lot about Johnny Depp, way more than I ever asked for, but I never heard that. So I'm guessing JD being homophobic and JKR being aware of that are not quite the facts you make them out to be. Also not quite sure how JKR supported Johnny Depp. Saying she was happy with his casting back then? (in a gay role btw) You make this out to be an act of homophobia? Seriously?

That she is named Robert Galbraith (if I spelled that correctly) after a dude who tortured gay people is just a wild claim, JKR never said she was. In fact she said "She chose the moniker because Robert is one of her favourite names and Robert F Kennedy is her hero." RG is not very famous, no one ever heard of him and he is not the only person who had that name, so.

If JKR was homophobic, she probably wouldn't have made her beloved Dumbledore gay, for Christ's sake.

[thatonesongyouretryingtoremember]

Rating whatever ST ships I can think of bc it's night (post lemon) and I'm bored

Lumax- 10/10 so poetic and beautiful the show doesn't do them justice which is SAYING A LOT romo lumax and platonic lumax have my heart

Elmax- the first ST ship I started shipping before joining fandom! 10/10 incredible beautiful drop dead gorgeous romo and platonic elmax are perfect

Hopclair- 10/10 I may currently be running on a hopclair ANGST high, but as I've said and will not hesitate to repeat, these two NEED to team up and NEED more screentime together! Romo, platonic, and queerplatonic hopclair love in my brain

Henclair- recently found appreciation for them upon season two rewatch and reflecting join season two, cute enough for a maybe 6/10 as romo 15/10 platonic

Henderhop- I just can't picture it 0/10

Morallysus- idrk seems kinda morally sus to me :/ -10/10

Elmike 8/10 platonic and I will not elaborate

Byler- objectively 10/10 but they are not who I'm thinking about when I'm actually watching- that's when my elmax and platonic stobin brain turns on romo and platonic byler on their respective places in the timeline are literary impeccability

Byclair- adorable and I could totally see it, 7.5/10

Wheelclair- surprisingly cute but not my first instinct I do truly Get the cuteness but 6/10

Elumax- be it romo lumax romo elmax with pl hopclair, romo hopclair, or qp hopclair, still adorable to me and I actually understand them more than you do don't go near my children sorry guys blorbo is just for me actually 100/10

Stobin- 10/10 platonic and queerplatonic aromantic and lesbian solidarity!! But also their arc and how they support eachother!! Beautiful precious my precious you can't have it wow am i gatekeeping?

Rockie- unopinionated so 6/10 besties endgame material romo

Ronance- I can never stop thinking about Nancy comparing Barb and Robin to eachother but y'all's headcanons are cute 5/10

Stancy- you know me. I love Steve. I love Nancy. Which is exactly why I can't in good conscious dare ship them together! Nancy's whole thing of relating him to Barb's death (valid) is word on its own if you don't throw in the fact that Steve super cool dream directly contradicts everything Nancy wants in life! Neither of them should have to compromise their LIFE around accommodating the other! You can say what you want about "they still like eachother romantically" which isn't even really true imo but had it ever occurred to you that sometimes people can feel romantically and and decide that a friendship would do them more good? Which isn't to say they are super close friends either because honestly their friendship has gotten the least amount of attention by the writers. -20/10 romo and 7/10 potential friendship that we will never get to see on screen.

Jancy- I honestly could not care less whether they are endgame their unbreakable bond etc etc doesn't care whether they're friends or dating 6/10

Jargyle- 10/10 how does it feel to be the most perfect ship in the world? Pl, QP, romo, alterous, whatever it is these two mean the world to me

Stonathan- question why? I'm sure it's cute I just don't understand the origin of the hype. What's it ABOUT for y'all?

Stoncy- see above, both 5/10

Steddie- I actually like it as a ship kind of if it weren't for the fact I can't see Steve not being aromantic. Also while we're here thank you if you've stopped cross tagging because I'd I look up Erica Sinclair In not looking for Eddie x Reader fics 6.5/10 romo

Boyce- wait actually this might have been my first ST ship not elmax.. anyways they're adorable and I totally hated the way they did the love triangle thing. Hopper being annoying distracted me from Bob being the coolest guy in the world.

Jopper- I guess I'm cool with them now but I was so anti jopper in S2 not because I'm invested in the love triangle I fucking hate love triangles but because Hopper was insufferable in seasons two and three and Joyce had like no boundaries in season three that got weird because ofc the writers decided to build up their canon in the most annoying way possible. Maybe they could have been an 8/10 if ST writers had fucking tried at all before season four but now they're closer to a 4.5/10 for me tbh but go back to season one where their friendship was pretty cool and they've known eachother forever and all that- super fucking sweet 8/10 points taken off because I just generally find Hopper annoying (as a person not as a character I get how he's important to the story and blah blah)

Boycer- since the suffers never ruined it I mean wrote it and I can imagine them however I want- polyamorous Joyce with her two boyfriends is a 10/10

Edissy- I genuinely thought this was a joke 2/10 romo 7/10pl

Joyren- not to be a Karen hater but I kinda hate Karen 1/10

Kargyle- I love Kali with all my heart. I absolutely adore Argyle. But I don't get this ship. Like why. 5/10 romo 8/10 pl

Kalancy- yes let women kill people! I mean I'm the scenario I imagine they are def at Kali's home not Nancy's and it's def not a healthy mindset but let's not think about that.. honestly I don't think about them at all but I guess it could be cool. 8/10 romo 9/10 pl 9/10 qp

[strxnger-things]

omg i finally found you!! I liked ur birthdaygate post AGES ago then forgot your url but im so glad i found you again bcos i have SO many questions- pls pls pls can you explain your theory more bcos its driving me crazy, a lot of people dont like this theory for some reason but im on the fence about how i feel about it :/

damn, I really thought I had the best hiding spot... *climbs out of a dark corner and stretches*

lol, hey!

ok so before I go any further into this, I just want to make something clear: I'm not the person who came up with the birthdaygate theory. I've seen a few people conflating birthdaygate with the post I made about something funky going on with the memories mentioned in the S2 shed scene, but they're like totally two separate things. Birthdaygate is the cool, big-brain theory that suggests Will's forgotten birthday is secretly a planned narrative tool that we'll see explained in Season 5 (whoever first put the evidence for that together, you rock and I have mad respect for you)

Memorygate on the other hand, is just a small expansion of it: my suggestion as to when or why Will's birthday might have been forgotten. Honestly, I'd not given the whole theory much thought before I unceremoniously threw it into the byler tag and watched the horror and heartbreak spread haha I'll do my best to explain it a little more, but I don't think I'll really be able to help much. My intention was never to convince people of anything. It was literally just me going, "huh... hey guys, isn't this kind of suspicious...?"

and the thing is, if you don't believe in birthdaygate to begin with, then memorygate is completely moot. Like, it's just a lot of fun. But if birthdaygate is real, memorygate just might be one possible explanation. Maybe. ?? honestly? I think it would kinda suck if it was real. I totally understand why some people hate it. Whilst I'm sure it'd be a shocking twist, it would also be very deux ex machina, and it'd mess with the character's agencies.

but like, if it WAS suspicious... ...here we have a villain who can canonically a) view people in the present moment like they're all laid out on a chess board ("now-memories"), b) enter any mind he so wishes and spy on their innermost thoughts and memories, and c) seems to have a connection/obsession with time.

This villain is also literally told a bunch of memories relating to one of his primary antagonists. The S2 shed scene helped Will break free of his possession just enough to save the day, but at the same time, what if Vecna was being given precious ammunition that he could utilise for future use? It's kinda convenient that Will's birthday is A Thing™ now, and the ONE time it's mentioned in the narrative is one of the most powerful and important scenes. Coincidence? Yeeeeah, maybe.

and as to how Vecna could have 'used' all those memories for his own benefit, I can only speculate. We don't yet know enough about what Vecna is fully capable of. Can he flit through people’s mindscapes without the victim suspecting anything? Do they always have a nosebleed or a headache, or is that just for when he’s going to kill/ consume you to open a gate?  Memorygate is just the theory that Vecna’s done something to those memories, including Will's birthday, because he knows they helped Will fight back against his possession.

Of course, Will was physically possessed in comparison to the mind possession we saw with Max and the other victims, so we don’t know if that changes things either.  It could be time-related (like, the date itself has been screwed with) or it could be memory-related (e.g. nobody from the shed scene can remember it because at some point, Vecna has messed with their minds, one by one). I can't help but compare it to how Vecna entered Max's memory of the Snow Ball. She did the same thing that Will probably did, and entered a safe space in her mind to escape him. She fought back by remembering the good, anchoring herself to her friends and to her special dance/kiss with Lucas. But then Vecna found his way in to that memory, slowly but surely, and took it over so she could no longer hide there. 

We didn't see it as an audience, but what if that was kind of what was happening inside Will's mind in S2? 

I'm not sure what more I can say to explain the memory stuff because there's still a lot of guesswork when it comes to Vecna and his powers. But I can go a little further into the Byler part for you, seeing as I only briefly mentioned it in my first post and I assume that's what you want me to get into most. So Mike talks about DnD games and their swingset meeting, and I think the latter is arguably the most powerful memory mentioned in the whole scene. A lot of attention is focused on the swingset memory. It's super important. We can also pretty confidently conclude that Vecna is pissed at Mike, especially by the time S4 rolls round. He's long known who he is, and he knows he's directly foiled his plans on more than one occasion, just like El. So go back and watch the shed scene again, and think about what we learned about Vecna in Season 4. Was he watching from Will's eyes, a hulking presence stalking through his mind, clouding Will's sense of self and listening intently to every word Mike was saying? Yeah, probably. Mike was visibly emotional. Distressed, vulnerable, raw, honest. Vecna learned that day that Mike and Will are deeply special to one other. He knows they're best friends. He knows a lonely Mike first approached a similarly lonely Will on a swingset when they were in kindergarten ('it was the best thing I've ever done...'). He also probably knows how Will truly feels about Mike. So that's a lot of ammunition for him to help put his plans into action, whatever they may be. He apparently doesn't want to kill Will, but perhaps he wants to isolate him. To hurt him, to make him feel forgotten by his loved ones, in a long game to win him over? Who knows.......

Vecna plays chess with people. He spies, he collects information, he uses people's memories against them. And the shed scene would have been a prime opportunity. A feast, if you will.

Once again, I hope I'm wrong about this. :)

[enamouredless]

(I sent this yesterday after my first ask but I don't think you got it, my wifi was bad.) No I get it, I agree that just because actors speak positively or lightheartedly about it, doesn't mean byler is endgame / Will gets a perfect happy ending. I know everyone always says "Don't compare them to other shows/ships" but. It really truly would not be the first time something like this happened and I would be extremely disappointed but not that surprised. Imo, giving a tragic character a tragic (or just meh) ending is bad, but the duffers might think it's peak television. Or maybe they are the kind of people who think Will not getting the guy is "just realistic". And actors could just say what they're told to, what fits the current vibe or whatever. Idk. I won't know until I have seen s5 myself. Byler and happy Will make narrative sense to me but that doesn't really mean much. I'm v curious about all your predictions now, what do you think is most likely gonna happen to everyone?

I honestly can't be certain about anything, tbh I try not to think too much abt S5 bc if I do I'll set expectations for myself that'll never end up happening lmao but if I'm talking in a positive the best I can see realistically go down is some sort of weird ambiguous gay ending? think something like Sam and Frodo.. in a more negative way I feel like all the events of these season do matter whether we like them or not, the lie abt the painting is going to be revealed and just like will said at rinkomania when mike finds out abt it he's gonna be mad and they'll def argue (the only good thing I can hope out of this is will getting the last word in an argument for once lol) like.. I'm not sure how big of a storyline this will be, I can definitely see vecna trying to use this all for his advantage to try to get will on his side, and honestly? If he's in a bad state emotionally I can see him being persuaded, ''my life started the day we find you in the woods'' remember? Vecna is definitely bringing that back lmao

I feel like this whole season was just building up ammunition to try to get will to break or snap or something next season(and I'm soooo not looking forward to seeing this tbh this season was already enough angst to last me a lifetime) but like despite all of this, Im like 100% that henry and will are meant to be character foils of each other, so whatever happens I think will end up going against him bc at the end of the day o don't think the duffers spent 4 seasons showing how selfless and kind will is to just end up straight up turning him into a villain, also how homophobic that would be....

Also m*leven side note I have no idea what's in store for them, idk how a love confession led by a lie is meant to be a good thing for them (and not any lie btw, wills feelings disguised as elevens) in my head this is something that should doom the entire relationship + the fact that max died during the monologue (just like Nancy and barb) but in reality the only thing this will do is just something to set up some conflict for them for the season just so they have something to argue about before they end up getting back together towards the end of the season like they always do... there's also the weird looming idea of marriage that makes my skin crawl but as much as I hate it I feel like it might be an actual possibility 😐 like I'm soooo serious if this happens I'm not watching S5 at all

There's more stuff that I think that might happen in s5 especially with all the time references they have been making throughout the show but if I get into that this answer will be 500 pages long so I'll also expect to be something time related, maybe even time manipulation especially related to will, I can also see vecna try to give him the opportunity to go back so none of this would've happened and he could've been able to live a normal life but will like the angel he is would tell him no and to fuck off, but this is more leaning into a full on theory based on nothing so idk what's the likelihood of it happening lol, thanks for the ask btw!!

[wixiany]

I've been reading through the byler tag a lot in the last two days. One thing that really makes me stop is Mike and what his sexuality could be. On one hand, there is his whole relationship with El, then there is always the possibility of bisexuality. But what I've read in the tag and the byler master slides and now fully believe is that Mike is actually gay but heavily repressing it all. If it proves to be true, then Mike will be the best portrayal of comphet I have ever seen in media. And even if it is not confirmed, in my eyes, it is clearly there.

You could argue that it is just my interpretation, and that is fine. But for some context why I relate so much and think the comphet is so obvious: I grew up in a tiny town, in a country where nobody talked much about lgbt stuff as I was growing up. My parents never told me about it. I had no idea liking women was an option. I figured out I was a lesbian when I was 19. And the thing is, I have always had a crush on some guy. I picked the first one in kindergarten and then had one all the time. But in retrospect, I can now recognize signs that I always liked women more. But I simply didn't understand it. Every girl around me was getting boyfriends, talking about boys and crushes, so I always had one too. But to be fair, I did kind of like those boys. They were smart and funny and nice to talk to. Some I never talked to more than once. I was a kid. I didn't even think about stuff like kissing and such. Until the intimacy became a real option and I panicked, but more to that later.

Here, I think of Mike and El. I'm sure others have explained it better than me. She's there, he helps her. He cares about her, he thinks it could be love. She is the one who usually initiates and he goes with it. It's what's expected of him. And he might have been excited at first, which is perfect comphet to me. That's comphet. You are so brainwashed by everything you've been seeing your entire life that you think that's it. But then Mike gets a bit older, the relationship gets more demanding, more intimate (I'm not sexualizing them, you know what I mean) and suddenly we see him getting all stiff with the kisses. I've been through this too, when I was still figuring myself out. I went on a couple of dates with this guy and when we hugged it didn't feel right. When he asked to hold hands, I did, because I thought that after a month of chatting and three dates that was something you should do. And when he wanted to kiss me on the second and the third date, I couldn't. I literally said a quick goodbye and fled to my car. That day I texted him I just didn't feel the same and to stop going out, but inside I finally knew that I was never going to be comfortable doing anything like that with a guy. But it took me 19 long years to figure that out because of comphet.

So no, I wouldn't say that it's far-fetched to think that Mike and El were just a childhood romance that was never going to last. You grow up and you change, find yourself. Maybe I'm projecting and totally wrong, but if you struggled with comphet, I would guarantee that you can see yourself reflected in Mike. Not to mention the way he treated Will after he arrived in Cali. It was very odd to his character. Unless you look at it with a similar lense. He isn't ready to accept who he is. For plethora of reasons. It is definitely a narrative choice to have him acting like that.

I would say that a casual viewer would not really pick up on this stuff, but a queer viewer? Oh, we do. It actually makes me tear up reading some other theories and such because to me, it is there. That comphet, that inner struggle with accepting who you are versus who you are supposed to be, what your parents and friends expect you to be.

Or it's queerbait and I'm reading too much into this. It's late, idk.

[byler-forever-7]

Ok so, even if I'm actually impressed by all the stuff that happened, I feel like the only thing I can talk about (bcs I got better in it by reading u guys) is Byler and melvin, Im so sorry.

SPOILERS AHEAD:

This season has been rough. I have some issues and contradicts ideas. First of all, (this is about the calls and the first moments) Mike's treatment to Will could be again interpreted as he cared more of her girlfriend, or he was trying to avoid Will to face the reality . So, we could have two different positions about his feelings and it could be both valid but... Ok, to the important scene, the melvin fight.

So, I had two different thoughts, first one, it showed the lack of one of the most important things for the Duffer Brothers in a relationship: comprehension, understandment. if u remembered J*ncy's fight, it started because they "didn't understand each other anymore" which was again the Melvin situation they had. This is caused by one of the things that the duffers brothers have mention, Mike and Eleven comes from different worlds, and therefore they can't be together and they can't understand each other, like a ghost and a Ghostbusters or E.T and Elliot, that Lucas and Erica's scene with the two toys... So, this is good for byler, right?

Well I noticed sth else that kind of scared me, this fight had an obvious St*ncy parallel, which was the "ily" thing. It shouldn't be bad, we had been given this St*ncy - Melvin parallels, just like we had j*ncy-byler parallels, but... This first volume showed us that... maybe j*ncy isn't the endgame couple so, this season kind of turned upsidedown (lol) the byler parallels proofs, or at least the J*ncy-Byler ones (which doesn't delete the Mike-Hopper ones that could be giving us anti-melvin proof still).

But again, the fact that J*ncy could not be endgame is another way of helping Byler (because all of the two brother thing¿? but they did it with El anyway-). Let's say that it makes things for Mike and Will much more easy and less weird to see for the audience.

And it is so funny to me because that's why I am so confused, they gave us proof telling us yes, and no HAHAHAH.

Another example of this is the "best friend" scene: Sr did u just asked him to be ur best friend when u are telling him he is the MOST SPECIAL person you had (LMAO where was that special Lucas-Mike relationship Dustin talked about??Things change ik, but still, it could be Byler proof, but not necessarily) and that he missed him so much eventhough you didn't called him more than 3 times (which would totally support that theory of the avoiding feelings. If you missed someone u would call them lol).

And, the part where Will tells Mike THAT quote, about telling the truth even if it hurts, we can't be sure if he's just reflecting his feelings about his confession onto Mike and El, or is a total foreshadowing of what is about to happen with this "ily" thing.

Another thing I was so surprised to see is that, Mike wasn't only reading the letter in front of that sign pointing at the closet, but IN the letter, it had rainbows on it, WTF (that is not only related to LGBT, but WILL and Will and Mike too (that rainbow heart draw from Mike's bassement in the very beginning of the 1st season??)

Even so, I felt like this season, everyone has used rainbows and it seemed like they didn't have a meaning anymore (Like Nancy's hair accesorie, or other clothes too).

I also wanted to point out that the roller rink byler fight had BLUE and YELLOW colors like----.

Another thought is that Mike's feelings have been shown as admirence towards El. The first scene where Dustin is talking to Mike about their girlfriends, Mike says that she saved the world and he only kept repeating that thought but, he didn't actually showed love, he showed again, admirance (that is why El wanted to keep being a superheroine, so he could keep Mike's feelings) throught out the season.

If you mix this with the fact that he can't say he loves her, the theory and interpretention of Mike avoiding Will and his feelings, and that Will's truth quote could be a foreshadowing, it could work for byler A LOT.

Also and I almost forgot to mention, the "it has always been" scene or sth like that), at the end it resulted in a Byler scene, and I wanted to remember the theory someone came up about the poster¿? thing in the back (the square one) that it was somehow (I don't remember how) connected to LGBT people again so, Byler in front of another LGBT icon? yeah.

That's why I am so confused rn, but I am still hopefull bcs of that "telling the truth" scene, and that it has this different proofs, so this doesn't confirm or deny anything.

And we still have to watch Mike's speech and Will's drawing which I am so excited about.

This is all so caotic but, as i am so confused rn, I can't put them together. But this post will help me to organize my ideas and split them one by one, I just wanted to take all these notes first.

So these were all my Byler thoughts through out the season, I am really looking foward to read yours.

PLUS: funny how Jonathan and Nancy have the same couple problems than Mike and El, lying.

[strangertheory]

we mileven fans have a group on discord where we disprove your bratty theories and make fun of you ... as it should be! you are pathetic infants !! and you're also forcing a straight guy to be gay so crazy!

These are fictional characters and stories for fans to appreciate in their own way that means the most to them. I think it's great that fans have very different ideas about the show, and when we can all coexist and share our thoughts with each other respectfully that's even nicer.

I think it's a shame that your preferred way to enjoy this series is by investing time in mocking other fans for having different ideas about the story than you do, but at the end of the day it's not my place to tell you how to spend your time.

I'm not sure you know much about me, my blog, or my thoughts on Stranger Things, however. Is there a long list of "known byler fan-blogs" that you're all indiscriminately anonymously messaging to entertain yourselves at this point? While that might seem efficient, the result is like when I get spam calls from telemarketers offering me better car insurance: I don't have a car. It's obvious you have no idea what my thoughts are on any given topic related to the show.

[0aurelion-sol0]

never said it was weird to theorize finn’s playlists “because it’s byler” quit acting so insecure. it would be weird as hell if it was mileven too. i don’t care if his playlists are public, it’s fucking weird to drag his personal stuff into theorizing a fictional ship? he shouldn’t have to make his playlists private so y’all won’t do weird things? also, “horrendous straight ship.” you guys sure talk a lot of shit about mileven when all you do is call milevens “toxic” for hating on your ship. you think if you cared about byler so much you’d ignore mileven and focus on your ship? i’m not a hypocrite, nothing about what i said has to do with byler as a ship. i’m simply telling you that theorizing over a real human’s playlists for the sake of a fictional ship is fucking weird and you should leave him out of it, no matter what the ship is. if you can’t understand that and immediately wanna take it as an attack towards your ship, and feel the need to attack mileven back when they weren’t even brought up..idk what to tell you.

Your ask sounded like using songs he putted out there publicly for theorizing on things he worked on was harassing or being creepy/weird about him, is moronic. Things he has openly hinted (or even liked stuff about) about like any other actors on things they work on, Finn is not the only one to do it. Many people who worked on some stuff hint or incorporate it into their lives. That argument of yours is moronic. And you were referencing an action or a process, in this case theorizing, related to Byler since it was referencing a theory about Byler. So yes it was directed to that ship. Who knows why Finn putted this on this playlist of his ? Maybe he was inspired by some of his works that he loved doing, maybe he was not. Let people have their goddamn interpretation.

So yes, the argument was definitely against Byler since it has been used before by other people. I've been doing this for a long time now so I'm starting to recognise what people really mean behind their words now, (and what type of people says it) and I know exactly what you meant by this.

If it was Melvin, no one would bat an eye. It's Byler, everyone loses their f*cking minds. And yes I will trash that relationship since it has offered nothing so far into the story but dragging the plot and being horrendous (which is a fact) while it's fandom who exists because of this very ship trashes every other fandom that exists in the ST fandom, including ours, because people get something else out of the show. And who came to bother us and me in the first place with an ask in the Byler tag and a fellow Byler theorist? You.

We can never theorize in peace without having people like you bothering us 24/7 and telling us what to do and not to do (like who are you ?). No harm or creepy things were done or said. Stay in your lane because you will not want to play that game when I'm on. I'm not like the other Byler shippers who try to be as calm and respectful as possible, I'm not nice and definitely not polite.