#( also realized it could be super fitting with like? dani trying so hard to help unknown musicians get recognition but then lu kinda

[apaise]

for the first few centuries of her existence, dani could not imagine a happier life for herself. she felt blessed to be a muse, to not only inspire great pieces of music, but to also witness its effect ripple throughout the world. she would help one person and they would help hundreds, thousands, teaching others they weren’t alone on this earth and that their collective feelings were heard. there was simply no purer joy. 

but as the years passed . . . the world changed. no matter how much heart dani poured into her work, trying to uplift artists and ensure their music was felt by those who needed it most . . . they would be buried in the rabble, eclipsed by those only who only sought fame. the human creation of the celebrity meant that dani had to search all the harder, seeking those who loved music above adoration. prominence poisoned people too, their dreams shifting from wanting to create something of meaning to merely wanting to establish a name for themselves. 

it became weary work, with dani sometimes wishing she was a muse of wealth instead. if she had gold flowing from her fingertips, she could give her starving musicians the time to create without having to spend their lives at jobs they loathed just to put food on the table. she never spoke of her dispiritedness, however, always putting on a smile when lily spoke of helping some young lawyer with her first debate or when ally spoke of forging a match between some florist and tattoo artist. 

her aulos was only another source of dread. while drake's mask would inspire humorous tales to delight a city, or hyejin’s compass would guide an explorer to unknown lands . . . dani’s aulos was passed around without any desire for use, kept as a strange ornament to ogle at. she abandoned the idea of discovering a new companion with her emblem, struggling in vain to find musicians on her own. 

it isn’t until the 21st century that dani finally feels that spark again -- not simply for her aulos being found, but . . . someone actually trying to play it. she follows that glimmer till it takes her to a corner of a park, far away from the joggers and dog-walkers. although the burble of the brook muffles the music some, dani could recognize her aulos from an ocean away, the plash of water actually complimenting the low octaves of the reeds. 

the artist wields it with surprising skill, weaving the notes in tune as if they were following some lyric or poetry. for a moment, dani feels transported to the days of old, back to the theater of dionysus where she first saw a performance with her aulos. yet the music here is much less predictable, experimental as its owner explores its possibilities with every breath. dani is enchanted as she listens, wondering if this awed haze is what it’s like for mortals to meet gods.

when she finally sees the artist properly, dani’s only further stunned. she knows this human, or rather -- immortal. luisa. dani had helped her eons ago in the 1300s when she’d been holed up in her room, fiddling with her instrument late into the night. additionally, for her sisters who had sought robin’s help with obtaining immortality for their loved ones . . . luisa had set an important precedent. robin decisions to grant her eternal life had opened a door to others having the same, and as a results, the sisters were rather grateful to this human who had once convinced death. dani knew a little of her talent in music as well -- lu’s fame was rather prominent on earth -- but she had never predicted their paths would cross like this. yet for the first time in a long while, dani feels excited. 

❝ it’s been three hundred years since i’ve heard anyone play that so beautifully, ❞ she approaches at last with a smile, truly captivated.

❝ you’re wonderfully talented. your fans are very lucky to follow someone with such passion, ❞ dani proclaims warmly, imagining it must be comforting to follow an artist like luisa with such love for music itself. her smile turns a little playful afterwards, beginning her introductions. ❝ though robin and nari did always mention you’re special. ❞ the latter, much more cryptically,  dani had learned to decipher the dream queen’s nonchalance after knowing her for centuries ( and diana’s help with interpreting ).

[quinintheclouds]

Hey, I just read your post on ADHD/EFDD and was just wondering if you have read any research articles on this and if you have, could you tell me which ones because it all sounds super interesting and I need to choose a topic for my psych lit review and I’m thinking about doing something to do with all the stigma around and misconceptions about different mental health disorders.. it’s totally okay if not tho, I know it’s a big ask, but thanks anyway

That sounds like such a great topic!!! I would be HONORED to help :D 

The first person I think of when discussing the term EFDD is Dr. Russell Barkley. He’s one of the leading ADHD experts, and has been a spearhead for studying executive dysfunction in people with ADHD for decades. Very much ahead of his time compared to the DSM. I’ve had his book “Taking Charge of Adult ADHD” recommended to me so many times, but have yet to read it.

Here’s some free stuff, though! 

[reblogs appreciated because Tumblr hates posts with links and I wanna make sure this anon sees it!]

I tried to include some short stuff and longer stuff, some articles, images, videos, and comic recs, so you can choose based on your current energy and focus level :) I’ve also bolded links and key points of each source if you like skimming. Let’s go!

...................................

Here’s an interesting article/study on EFDD! They found that “ADHD [is] associated with deficits in inhibition, managing one’s attention, self-directed speech and rule-following, self-motivation, and even self-awareness [...] ADHD therefore involves deficits in self-restraint, [...] selfsensing and imagery, self-control of emotion, and self-directed play for problem-solving.”

Thank you for motivating me to look up some articles, because I learned some new things, too! For instance, they assert that ADHD could also be called SRDD (Self-Regulation Deficit Disorder), but conclude the article by saying either SRDD or EFDD fits better than ADHD, and that the terms could be used interchangeably, because SR (self-regulation) and EF (executive function) are effectively talking about the same things. So his assertion is that even if the name ADHD never changes, it can still be scientifically classified as either of the other terms. I believe in recent years he’s preferred EFDD more and more.

[note that the above article/study is from 2011, back when we were on the DSM-IV, so a lot of research has been done since then]

...................................

If that article’s a bit wordy or you want something more visual and up-to-date, here’s a really detailed PowerPoint presentation used during the 2018 ADHD Symposium! It’s long but well-organized so you can just read the big headers or you can read all the bullet points explaining it. Keep in mind this was a lecture, so some of it probably made more sense in person. I’m glad I read this, because I realize the terminology I’ve used is slightly off: according to the Symposium, there aren’t “subtypes” of ADHD, but the different names (ADHD-PI, ADHD-PH, and ADHD-C) are really just used to show the prevalence of certain symptoms in that individual. So they’re all terms for ADHD, but “subtype” was poor word choice on my part. 

Oh! I just found a video of him giving a lecture in 2012 using many of the same PowerPoint slides! Here ya go! It’s a bit longer than the other videos I’ve linked below (13min), but it might make the slides easier to interpret :)

...................................

If you want a really short and basic overview, here’s a video explaining 5 main ways executive functions affect the brain and how they work differently in people with ADHD. [I put the video below as well if you wanna stay on tumblr] It’s from 2010, but it holds up. It only covers 5 big ones, so remember (if you can) that executive function affects EVERYTHING and the symptoms will affect everyone differently and at different levels. 

This is just the most basic overview and a good place to start:

...................................

Here’s one where he talks about our Time-Blindness! (below) I was going to pick a couple favorite quotes to give you an idea, but that’d wind up being a transcript of the whole video because HE GETS IT. This is from 2014, but I CANNOT recommend it enough!!! He mentions that ADHD doesn’t have a deficit of attention, but rather a deficit of intention. He describes us as having a near-sighted sense of time, and talks about deadlines, “laziness,” etc.

 ALSO he talks about how our brains DON’T CONNECT our knowledge to our performance (back of brain to front) like everyone else’s, so we have the same level of knowledge and intelligence, but can’t access and use it the way others can. This is why teaching skills and organization/memory/time-management tips isn’t helpful -- we can learn them, but our knowledge and action centers are separated, so actually doing them/sticking with them is just as hard as before. 

If you don’t watch the whole thing, at least skip to 3:29 cause that part’s really funny and relatable (ok the whole thing is relatable):

...................................

And of course, I highly recommend the YouTube channel How to ADHD! I have a couple friends who work on it, and they REALLY know their stuff! (They’re the ones who taught me during a game night that RSD isn’t a real term and it should be called “rejection-sensitivity” as part of the emotional dysregulation umbrella) 

I went looking and found this video (below) has the BEST explanation of it that I’ve seen in such a concise, entertaining way. I hadn’t seen this one before, but it even covers some of the things I mentioned in that post your ask is about! Especially the Internal Restlessness that I mentioned as the true “hyperactivity” we all share; even though some of us also express outward hyperactivity, both presentations come from the same restlessness in our brains.

^^^This has some great examples, visuals, animations, and different ways of explaining and thinking about our symptoms! If you want more about this, the description has a bunch of links to their sources! Jessica and everyone else who works on this channel is great at making the videos watchable for people with ADHD (even if we have to rewind sometimes)

Here's Jessica's official Twitter @HowtoADHD! (I was today years old when I found out that she follows me)

...................................

And if you want something REALLY short and simple, here’s a 2 minute animation comparing living with ADHD to trying to film a movie with a director who keeps falling asleep [below]

....................................

If you like comics:

My favorite ADHD comic artists are: ADHD Alien [@ADHD_Alien on Twitter and @adhd-alien on Tumblr]; Dani Donovan [@danidonovan on Twitter and @danidonovan on Tumblr -- we’re somehow twitter mutuals and she is such a sweetheart. She has some really good infographics, too!!]; ADHD Bri [@AdhdBri on Twitter and @adhdbri on Tumblr]; and dreamadept [@yume_dango on Twitter and @yume-dango on Tumblr]

They’re all well-researched, funny, genuine, intelligent, insightful, talented artists who depict ADHD in a very accurate and relatable way. Go check ‘em out and support them! :D

....................................

I’m gonna stop there for now, but PLEASE feel free to add on to this with other sources, questions, videos, thoughts, comic artists, etc.!!! Hope this helps someone out there!

[comicteaparty]

March 7th-March 13th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from March 7th, 2020 to March 13th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

What is your overall marketing/promotion strategy for your webcomic?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I don't know if this counts as a strategy, but these are some of the things I do to promote my comic or my work in general. 1. Most important from what I've noticed (which I have been failing at due to stress and self-doubt lately) is to post updates to your comic frequently and consistently. It seems somewhat silly that simply putting your work out there is the best way to grow an audience, but it really is. Newly posted chapters frequently get shown on more pages and thus detected by the algorithms and potential readers. It also helps to establish trust with current and returning readers. 2. Participating in art/comic events, forums, and other comicking communities (such as this one). In a way, this isn't really marketing directly, but it is good to build connections with other creators! 3. Conventions! I actually have gotten a several new readers/followers from attending cons. It's also nice just to talk to people, get your name out there locally, and to make a little bit of money while at it. 4. Social media promotion. Tbh, this hasn't been super helpful to me, but more eyes is always a win in my book. I try to post almost every day, even if it isn't art or comic related. Having some kind of social media presence at all, even if it's small, shows people that you are working hard to connect to others. Also finding the right hashtags definitely helps with visibility.

kayotics

Overall, my strategy for marketing is to be authentic and just keep plugging my stuff. People will come if they like it. I work as a marketer for my day job, so I know what I COULD do, but I really don’t do that much since a whole marketing plan would take a lot more time than I have available to me. Some of the stuff I do otherwise: - regular updates. This ones pretty important for retaining viewers I already have. Any good marketing strategy is thinking about retaining people, not just getting new ones - self promo: this usually is on top webcomics or on social media. I get a LOT of traffic from top webcomics, and I get a good handful of people from social media. - conventions, like mentioned before, can be a great way to get people’s eyes on your stuff. I have a postcard that I hand out to people if they come by or they purchase something. - the thing I don’t do enough is post more art outside of the comic, or even just little previews. If I were dedicated to marketing, I’d be sharing sketches or illustrations on social media to grow my audience.

DanitheCarutor

Ah you know, I don't really have much of a strategy. At some point I promoted as much as I could on Twitter, adding my comic to those share/promo thread, getting in on relevant hashtag events, participating on WebComic Chat (whenever I remembered to). I've done a little promotion on forums, but there is really only so much you can do since only so many people hang out there and if your work is super niche like mine, they will pretty much avoid your promos at all cost. Lmao Other than those I don't really do much, at some point I attempted to use Instagram but the site/app is very stingy about offsite links. I also started a Facebook page, although if you don't have the money to boost your promos and don't usually have a lot going on with your comic outside of weekly updates, it won't get a whole lot of attention. I've also tried to be more active, but I'm not a good conversationalist, and I tend to be kind of a thread/conversation/mood killer so I try to avoid talking outside of Q&A prompts like this.

eli [a winged tale]

Same Dani, I used Instagram for a while too and I just don’t think the platform is a good fit for my vertical scroll comic (see exhibit 1) Twitter is a mixed bag as well and I think unless you have a solid following already, it’s hard to gain traction. What really helped was being on Webtoon’s staff pick for a couple days. I’m not sure how Tapas picked up but it’s reassuring that there’s a couple of followers gained every week when I posted regularly. So it really does sound like the first step is to have a steady update schedule (working on the buffer! Got a month’s work down today). It’s just challenging because while I could upload one page a week but on the vertical scroll sites it seems like a longer episode (6-7 pages) is valued more as a solid update. Love hearing everyone’s thoughts and hope to learn from y’all! (edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Consistency and con attendance were big ones for me, but something I learned worked well (and was really fun to do) was creating really fun, really dumb, non-canon bits of art every now and then. Following meme prompts or funny ideas from other people. If your comic can afford some humor being thrown its way, making people laugh is a great way to get some attention. No one needs to know the details of your story - they just need to relate to the characters/humor somehow. I had more than one person come across my dumb, meme-y ancillary art and go “Welp, I want to read your comic now.”

eli [a winged tale]

Memes to the rescue! What has been your favourite to do? And which one has surprised you in its relatability/popularity?

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Two shots of vodka.

Also that terrible sweater meme. Everyone is required to do the terrible sweater meme. People eat it up.

eli [a winged tale]

Too good

Ahh I can’t wait till I can actually write silly adult characters

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Now that you mention it, the nice thing about the terrible sweater meme is it works with a WIDE variety of comics.

eli [a winged tale]

I would love to do a meme with y’all

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

"Came for the story, staying for the sick memes"

Spring-heeled Jack

I try to post updates every friday when my new pages go up on Patreon. And then I make my big post when my tapas and website update at the end of the month. Between all that, I have little flyers that I carry with me and if I'm ever in a shop that has a little self promotion section, I plan on tacking up a flyer. I do conventions, and this will be my first convention season while actively making a comic, so flyers will be handed out then as well.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

My comic isnt very comedy-heavy, and even for the funny scenes, my sense of humor isn't compatible with most people's. So a lot of the memes out there just don't work. But terrible sweater meme doesn't have to be hilarious. It can be just cute, or even weird.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

For me, uh lmao. I sometimes make some funny strip panels and it was received well even though it's not polished for my liking lmao

Spring-heeled Jack

Keii, I feel you. I'm not good with comedy and my comic isn't meant to be funny, either, so I don't know how well a comedy meme will help me.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

overall, I try to be honest with just self promo and asking when I have a chance "Hey pls check out my comic lol"

eli [a winged tale]

Or maybe just something relatable? Seen a couple caption this on tumblr

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think instead of memes, what I'm gonna do is my characters cosplaying more well known characters from works that have some tonal similarities with my own. This isn't just for advertising purposes; it's something I've been wanting to do for a long time for myself. But I'm realizing it can serve some of the same purposes that memes do.

Spring-heeled Jack

That's extremely cute!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Keyword being "SOME" Tonal similarities... Some of them aren't very similar but have a couple of parallels, etc.

Spring-heeled Jack

Oh for sure. Even if you could find that 'perfect match', it might not be a great cosplay for them, and give too much away

Are "draw the squad" prompts still a thing? I love those

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

The One White Dude and the Tiger Dude in my comic will definitely cosplay Calvin and Hobbes at some point.

Spring-heeled Jack

LOL

omg please, Keii

eli [a winged tale]

YES

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yeah, not every comic will have super memeable humor - but whatever you can do to break down that wall between you and a potential reader and go “Hey! Look at this. Is this relatable? Do you get the reference? Etc” Is a very good bet

Also yes squad memes are PERFECT

You can boil down your comic’s relationships so simply.

Spring-heeled Jack

I have four couples in my comic so those "ship dynamic" posts might be fun

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

What are squad memes?

eli [a winged tale]

I also need to be educated about squad I mean all the memes

Spring-heeled Jack

OH MAN!! They are fun as heck. You can find templates and it's a very simple character design in the template, but the poses are super silly. And then you just draw your characters in place of those simple figures(edited)

If you google "Draw the squad" you will find a bunch

renieplayerone

Oh! Ill have to try that! These squad bases look fun!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I still have one of those I need to finish Back when I first started sharing my work, I was surprised and delighted at how quickly people shoved it through a meme filter.

Maybe that’s another thing! If marketing opportunities present themselves as a surprise, try running with them and see where they take you Within reason, of course. Never feel forced to follow anything that people respond to in a particular way. Just take it into account and see how you feel about it.

renieplayerone

(Im here to lurk on this week's question, i have no strategy and need ideas haha)

eli [a winged tale]

Omg draw the squad looks

too many to choose

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I love draw the squad poses so much TuT I wish I had more time to draw within more of them. I think I always get a little dishearten about making memes because I feel like I need to make my jokes full illustrations but I never have time for much extra content beyond ballpoint pen sketches :T

Mei

Honestly I don't have a marketing or promotion strategy for my webcomic. I make updates every week, and I post it on my twitter and kinda plug it there. I'm actually god awful at trying to make people read my comic because I'm a little bit nervous about it, to be honest. So I just sort of leave it there and see if people find it, half the time. That being said, I tried to promote it pretty hard at conventions last year. But that didn't go as well as I'd hoped. I'm hoping to make flyers with QR codes so that people can scan it, and it'll take them to the landing page/tapas for the comic. That might be a bit easier than getting them to just search the title, plus having a flyer is a nice bit of promotion if I get the opportunity?! Making memes and drawing characters in different clothes or in squad things sounds like super fun tho and I might look into that in the future

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's nice to hear everyone talk about this topic. TBH I had completely stopped promoting my comic because I got too scared of backlash, being a disappointment, etc. (Initially I'd attracted a number of people who weren't actually my target audience, and that led to some less than ideal results.) But some time last year, it occurred to me that 1) I'm making this comic for my reader self (or my "hypothetical taste twin" as I like to call it)... which means 2) I only have to appeal to people like me. So I started asking myself, "What would I have to say/do to get me to read this comic?" and that made it significantly less intimidating. I haven't actually started doing self promo (though I did start plugging my updates on Twitter at least). But most future self promo I do will be based on that ^ question.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(oh god, I was just checking out the latest update for one of the Korean webcomics I read, and the new episode is about a hikikomori... who says "I want to change, but I can't step outside because... maybe there isn't a single person out there who will understand me." THAT WAS ME but with comic promo. Well, I'm getting better and I also hope this character will, too, though knowing this comic his chances aren't so great lol...)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I hope that wasn't too awkward to share! Tl;dr I really think the "what would I have to say/do to get ME to check out my comic" is a good approach for anyone else feeling intimidated about doing self promos.

In the same vein, but on the opposite side of the coin: I'm curious to know, what were some things that got YOU to read someone else's comic?

Some of my own answers to that aren't very relevant to what we can do for our own comics: e.g. I'm Korean and when Naver has a new comic in their pro comic lineup, I may check it out. I'm also a member of SpiderForest and I check out the applicants' comics during the app season. Stuff like that aren't really good promo options that we can take. But things that may be relevant: - 'Evocative scenery shot that doesn't show the face/ doesn't focus on the face.' MY WEAKNESS. That kinda pictures feel subtle and kind of lonely to me, even if it's a group shot. And I like stories with those vibes. -Promo includes an evocative quote. Could be from the comic itself, or from something else like a classical literature or whatever. The creator of Ark (https://www.arkcomic.com/) does this sometimes and even though I'm already following Ark, those promos get my attention.

eli [a winged tale]

Definitely the art promo now that I think of it! Merch, posters, banners etc. If the art intrigues me, I definitely take a look at the site/blurb/first chapter

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I wonder if we can semi-workshop promo art at some point? Not really intensive like "change xyz" because that's not always feasible with art, but just impression feedback like, "this pictures gives me these vibes, and makes me expect this kinda story"

I would be curious to see everyone's even if we don't workshop

eli [a winged tale]

YES

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Yesssss

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yes please. I don‘t promo besides update notices simply because I have no clue to start.

Mei

Sometimes I get really attracted by the style of the story? I immediately started reading Wolfsbane because the art was cool and different from a lot of whta I'd seen on Webtoon up until that point. And then the story was perfect for me. What keii said about writing for yourself is right. Patrick Ness once said you should write the stories your younger self would have loved to pick up on a shelf

and I think that's a pretty evocative thing. At the end of the day, you should be enjoying what you're writing (hopefully). And if you enjoy it and you're having fun making it, that can rub off on the people reading it, or you find the people who like that similar vein of story?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(It's also 100% legit to write stories for your current self )

Mei

(oh yes 100% that's what i'm doing HEHE)

Tolkein wrote LOTR because he was like

in love with worldbuilding

was there a market for such a strange type of novel at the time? No. Definitely not. Did he write it anyway? YEAH HE DID

Deo101 [Millennium]

I really wanna do an art workshop yes.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Aight, anyone who wants an impression feedback from me, post your promo art in #art_help

Warning, my impressions may be totally off lol

Deo101 [Millennium]

Also I don't do much marketing. Mostly I try to get in with communities and learn about making comics, I just want to improve my craft. All I really do is make my updated every week, and share whatever art Ive made on my Twitter or whatever

Okay! I think I only have my cover on my phone, but on my computer I also have my banners and icon. So I'll share all those in a bit when I'm at my computer

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(off topic but I'm sick, and when I'm sick or very tired I constantly misread words. I read "my banners" as "my bananas" and I was very confused for a couple seconds.)

Deo101 [Millennium]

My bananers

Feather J. Fern

I am terrible at marketing my own work, but I am very good at marketing other people's work. I use the "you would like it for this reason" to grab people. Unfortunately I can't do it for my comic because I am bad at seeing the good in my own work oof. I am getting better at it though.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's a really good way to do it!

And I can relate. My own hangup is a little different, but it can be extremely difficult to be brave for sure, whether in front of other people, or just in front of your own brain that constantly judges you.

Feather J. Fern

Yeah I was talking about a friend's comic and then the person I was talking to was like "Don't you write comics" and I was like "ahfoofjw yeah but don't look at them"

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I was thinking a lot about the whole "it's like [well known work] meets [another well known work]" approach that was discussed earlier. And I think that could be relevant here. Like, think of something that has either influenced your comic significantly, or just happens to have some core similarities. How would you market that thing? Could you market your own thing using a similar approach -- since there are similarities?

I'd thought of a really good example to compare HoK to. Then I got sad because the said example is extremely obscure outside of Korea. But now I'm like, hey, people don't have to KNOW that work. I can do this differently. I can talk about HoK the way I could talk about it.

('it' as in the other work that's obscure outside of Korea)

Feather J. Fern

I do think that's a good fast shortcut but I don't like using it becuase the shortcut sometimes makes people angry when they don't get what they like out of those two things

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's why I said to NOT actually bring up the comparison work

Don't name it

Just list the traits that are shared in common

Feather J. Fern

Oh sorry

I miss read

(And my name changed colours all the sudden?)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's a confusing topic, so no worries

It means you leveled up

Feather J. Fern

OWO!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Say you want to compare your work to... I dunno, DBZ, because it's got super strong aliens duking it out barehanded, blasting ki-like energy attacks, etc. Don't name DBZ. Talk about your work the way you'd talk about your favorite aspects of DBZ. "My comic has super strong aliens duking it out hand-to-hand! YEEEAH!"

OH MY GOD I NEED TO DO THIS NOW.

Feather J. Fern

Yeah! That's what I would do. (But it also helps for me that my comic has no hard reference points) but for my new comic, people are gonna compare it to Zach Bell, and Angelic Layer i think

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm gonna write up some drafts that I will revise and tweet at a later time

Feather J. Fern

So I jsut got to you know, not promo it as such XD

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I want to do this too for a quick pitch

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Do it (shop talk or story help maybe?)

I'm writing a vomit draft for mine

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yee

Feather J. Fern

I think I will do it for Story help

(Also so I can help flesh out my new project lol lol)

eli [a winged tale]

Kei I might be suuuuper off since I read only the beginning but I sort of thought inuyasha but Korea and handsome boys

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Sometimes you don't even realize your story can be marketed as "blah meets blah" until much later down the line - I've only started realizing the number of existing properties I've absorbed unintentionally into my comic. It's not how I'd market it on a serious front, but to a friend for story help, heck yes.

But a lot of people on Twitter seem to do that strategy for PitMAD and it works great for them, so... shrug

I guess it still belongs in a "pitch arsenal," as it were

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, the one "blah" I just thought of is something I hadn't realized for all these years. But it makes so much sense now that I look at it.

eli [a winged tale]

See that’s where I got confused but I think this is what I’m gonna aim to do: - pitch to readers: inspiration but this awesome unique thing in the comic - pitch to other comic makers: the Logline - pitch to agents: comparison works if requested and longer pitch depending on their format - pitch to family: just read it plzthanksbye

renieplayerone

or alternative pitch to family: Please dear god never read this

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's me

Oof... Writing the 'promote your comic by talking about the traits it shares with Another Person's Work,' I made myself cry, and that is definitely a sign I'm on the right track.

eli [a winged tale]

Right track is good!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It took me years to even think of an 'other more popular work' comparison for Children of Shadow. XD But at the same time, it's really different from the works I compare it to, so it's hard to say 'Read this if you like X or X because it has a few similarities in theme and tone, but is still very much its own thing'.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah which is why I'm not even gonna namedrop my X.

I'm just straight up gonna talk about 'My comic has [this trait]' (and X shares that trait, but no one needs to know for the purpose of that pitch)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

To answer the weekly question... I really don't have a marketing strategy. Marketing is my achilles heel, so I generally just throw pages up and hope someone sees them. I don't really understand social media nor do I have the energy to sink tonnes of time into it, which seems to be one of the biggest requirements for being picked up by algorithms. So my marketing strategy is just.., keep making comics and talking to other creators and hope for the best

eli [a winged tale]

I think that’s still solid Capn

Ultimately you need a product to promote

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's something that helps me, because while I can talk about my favorite works done by others, I feel stuck when trying to do the same with my own. So it's basically telling my brain, 'hey, you already know how to do it with other stories. Do the same thing with your own.'

eli [a winged tale]

So true Kei

renieplayerone

thats my strategy too. best case you market it great, worst case you've made a new friend so win win :3

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My incredibly low numbers after 14 years of making webcomics beg to differ but... maybe someday I can hire someone to help me market.

eli [a winged tale]

I’m using the comic platforms rather than my own site so... sort of relying on their algorithms. I imagine it can be harder if you just post on your own website?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sometimes the platforms don't help much if their audience isn't into the type of comics you make

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I post on both my own website and on platforms, but the algorithms for WT and Tapas don’t seem to like me, haha.(edited)

renieplayerone

yeah same

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

One of my top favorite webcomics got a front page feature on Tapas once, but it wasn't the kind of a story that gets a lot of traction there, so it still didn't get very popular. And that was in no way a measure of its quality. It is an excellent comic, just not a good fit for that particular place.

renieplayerone

I get far more views on my site, but I get way more engagement on Tapas and WT

I actually treat those two mirrors AS marketing for the main site(edited)

eli [a winged tale]

Exactly renie! Good perspective!

I never know what different platforms tailor to...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, what Keiiii said. I make dark fantasy comics and both WT and Tapas favour romance, especially comics geared towards a female audience and drawn anime style. My comics aren’t particularly feminine and romance isn’t much of a focus, so they’re just not what that demographic is into.

eli [a winged tale]

I’ve been trying to remember how I came across my favourite comics and usually it’s through the art (interesting characters, unique dynamic style that I enjoy) and the first chapter holding promise (able to see what the character wants/will have to change into)

Romance has always been the best seller in the story world I think

Oh and most recently hiveworks and other web publishers have great recommendations too per genre

And comic conventions are always fun to meet creators. Sometimes If I feel I jive with someone I’m an instant fan

renieplayerone

I absolutely need to get better at having confidence enough to make friends at conventions x_x

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I have noticed my audience grow a bit since joining Spiderforest. They’ve helped me get a bit better at promotion, though marketing just isn’t my talent, lol.

renieplayerone

im always terrified haha

eli [a winged tale]

It’s a big step for sure renie! It took me like... three years going to VanCAF as an attendee before actually exhibiting and making friends(edited)

Mei

I know i'm late but i personally detest the 'this book is X meets Y!!', even though I get why people do it. I just wish they'd describe it to me like what if I'd never read either of those books......

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I would really love to get out to cons, they sound like a great opportunity for connecting with other creators. One of these years I’ll be able to get to one!(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah im usually kinda like "okay, well are you doing anything new or are you just doing those things :/"

renieplayerone

I exhibit with the Boston Comics Roundtable and I still havent gotten the courage XD

Mei

yeah, cons are really fun even to attend or to make friends! I find it really tough though, I'm so intimidated;;

yeah Deo... same... it's like

sure, I could pitch a story as two things. Like I don't know "The Walking Dead meets Shaun of the Dead" which is semi redundant anyway

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I only use it to give people a framework for the kinds of tones and themes they can expect from my work when I have to keep my explanation short and sweet.

renieplayerone

they should have badges that say "Hi i want to make friends but you are all so awesome its intimidating be kind"

Mei

or you know... use those words to just describe the story? It may be a personal preference, some agents LOVE comparisons

Yes renie, yes!

i'd love a badge like that like

pls talk to me i'm scare

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Sometimes a few words can’t fully describe a story as well as saying: ‘It’s a little bit like X meets X but if you add [insert unique thing your story does]’

Mei

I personally find that it depends a bit too much on people having read those books or stories before. BUT if you're pitching to an agent, they've usually read those books

so then they get a sense or vibe of like, what the genre is

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It’s all down to preference, really. Your own and the person you’re pitching to. If you don’t want to use comparisons to describe your own work, that’s valid, but try not to dismiss people who do.

Mei

so I get it, I just don't like it personally xD I think a lot of the times it takes away from your own voice and story

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That too is part of the reason why I'm not namedropping the works

Just having my self-promo self learn from my 'promo other people's stuff' self

Mei

yeah for sure, it adds that level of excitement to your own work that you'd give to others?

eli [a winged tale]

I think a cool exercise might be to check out someone’s work here and see how you would promote it

It’s always good to see from someone else’s perspective

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

yessssss, all of my friends have been much better at promoting than I am

mostly because they have no shame regarding it but they also just... know what sounds cool

Mei

Oh i'm very good at promoting my friends' work

I sold his DnD book to a kpop stan who doesn't like DnD and doesn't play, and it was a crowning achievement

eli [a winged tale]

Like for yours I’d probably say... Manta Ray princess finds herself very much dead but is given a second chance to revive her friends and save her kingdom... just need to find someone very much living and very much not afraid of the seaghosts they have become

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

SOLID

though now I imagine Phaedra as a Manta Ray in a dress which is... not entirely untrue

eli [a winged tale]

LOL omg I haven’t even thought of that! Just thought manta Princess is a hook

Mei

Me, pointing at Cheth "I mean look at him, LOOK AT HIM and tell me you don't want to read this"

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I guess for my work I market it from four potential angles: 1) The princess is cool and has a sword, 2) The villain is the best character, 3) The environments ain't bad, and 4) THERE'S A DOG

again, you gotta know who you're talking to and what they already like

eli [a winged tale]

In a world where a fallen god became trapped in the sea, a dead princess is given a second chance to fight for her life with a mysterious sea-bitten boy and undo the sea ghost curse that plagues the world.

Dammit I repeated world

Mei

hey... the environments are GREAT

eli [a winged tale]

Yeah Lady your environment shots are

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

ok I do try BUT BACK TO MARKETING

The number of times I see someone marketing their comic with very epic-sounding descriptors or broad generalizations... then that one day where they're finally like "oh, I have a character who turns into a hamster at nighttime" and people are like 'I'M SOLD'

And then they go ".... THAT'S WHAT YOU ALL WANTED???"

often it's those little weird details that get people interested

Deo101 [Millennium]

I wanna read about the were hamster please

Mei

sometimes I think the simplest and maybe slightly silly lines are what grabs people?

when things sound TOO epic i feel a bit intimidated

eli [a winged tale]

takes notes

Mei

but if someone were to sell me a big adventure epic as "it's hamsters and they fight the forces of evil" i'd read it

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

god yes

"Four small creatures band together to defeat a great darkness overwhelming their homeland."

No.

"Hamsters fight evil."

YES

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I.... I have no idea how to snappily describe my comics. XD

eli [a winged tale]

Same... I got to kids with wings for hair then my brain short circuits

Mei

i'd say it's the way you'd tell the story to a close friend

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

The best I came up with was 'Teenagers with supernatural powers team up with woodland critters to defeat monsters' but it sounds more adventure-y and doesn't really get at the fact that it's a dark story with horror elements and everyone's mentally ill.

Mei

like they come up to you and go "what's your comic about" "oh you know, my stupid comic's about mutant hamsters that take over the world" or something

(don't call your comics stupid none of your comics are stupid they are great)

Deo101 [Millennium]

"plant man and his goth boyfriend babysitting a ton of bozos" would probably be mine then

Mei

BEAUTIFUL

i'm sold

Deo101 [Millennium]

ghsakgjhgkhkgahgk my target audience...

Mei

i do think tho like this form of comedic one-lining may not work for something dark?

Unless you go "Spooky horror about cats that become humans at night!"

would need experimentation

eli [a winged tale]

It’s a balance I think.

Kids stranded on an island with weapons explore the darkness in human nature - Lord of the Flies

Mei

ooh yeah that's a good one!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

A space explorer stranded on a foreign planet must join forces with the indigenous population and save his ship before his life support runs out.

Alternately

Small man goes to war with small carrot people

Pikmin

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios) I wonder if one could describe CoS the way how people might describe Evangelion, but with magical powers instead of mechs.

Teens, monsters, mental illnesses

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Probably. Though I've never seen Evangelion, but those three words work very well.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

The relationship dynamics are way different, but yeah, those three things...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Also add trauma and cute lil animals and you have Children of Shadow. XD

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Evangelion also has trauma (though I don't know if you'd like it; this isn't a rec, just a promo discussion!) and it was refreshing to see at the time

A teen trying to fight huge monsters, even if he was doing it inside an equally huge mech, could lead to traumatizing experiences, and it was the first time I saw that seriously explored

Hmm, so I guess "teens, talking animals, monsters, mental illnesses feat. trauma" ?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don't know if it's similar at all, but that description reminds me strongly of Eureka 7. Wow, was that series intense,

🌈ERROR404 🌈

I really liked how the end happened - it was a nice solution to the lack of budget issue and told the story of his psyche reall well

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Though Eureka 7 was intense in a good way. I found the ending kind of unsatisfying, but admittedly I find the endings of 90% of animes unsatisfying (probably a cultural clash). But I enjoy them for the journey more than the ending.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I haven't watched Eureka 7, but the storyboard artist (one of the storyboard artists maybe?) for that anime is one of my favorite artists.

DanitheCarutor

Ah, a little late, but regarding the snappy promos I'm in the same boat as Cap'n with not knowing how to make one. At least one that would be ridiculous and totally not fitting the darker themes. I agree with all the people who have a generally hard time coming up with a pitch for their work, while having an easier time promoting other people's comics. Honestly my comic can be super boring to people who don't like pretentious, non-fantastical, angsty, character study types of stories. So it's really hard to think of a way to make it sound interesting without spoiling anything. Man! That thing when people come up to you, asking what your comic is about! Me: "Oh! Ah, it's uh, kinda sad and it has uh mental illness" -trails off with uncomfortable laughter- Them: Oh cool. -has a look of complete disinterest- Someone was actually extremely enthusiastic about the vague description of my comic, which somehow made me a mix of uncomfortable and excited.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I saw the conversation about blurbs and I just thought of one for a comic I'm working on! "An ecologist and a bird have a conversation about ethics"

I haven't started the comic yet so please send your critiques(edited)

and first impressions

(of the blurb)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"Angsty character study with a heavy dose of mental illness" <--- Could this descriptor work? @DanitheCarutor

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

kei said exactly what I was just typing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Great minds

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oh, i just realized i've read dani's comic

I think your description is fine?

The artsy, angsty comics I follow all have kind of short, tongue in cheek descriptions

it's hard to capture the tone of an emotional comic in one sentence so they either joke about it or make it intentionally misleading

for example Drop Out's description is something like "two friends go on a road trip" and Fritz Fargo's description is "a human dumpster fire in the 90s"

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

The dumpster fire one is insta-effective

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Dani, maybe make your description shorter if anything?

Something like, "An emotionally stunted alcoholic attempts to make amends"

and then follow it up with kei's line about it being an angsty character study

RebelVampire

Im not gonna stop the convo cause it is on topic. However, i do want to remind ppl these #creator_babble chats are permanently archived. So thats something to keep in mind if youre gonna workshop.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I asked before in this discord about making my own blurb better. The main critique I got was that I included too many things that I thought were interesting and unique that a new reader probably wouldn't care about. Like how the mc's powers work. But though it's unique and important to the story, it's not going to be a main reason someone reads the comic. I revised the blurb to remove extraneous info and make the tone of the comic more apparent, and I think now I didn't lose anything and made it more concise.

I think maybe agtahr could also be summarized a bit more succinctly

DanitheCarutor

Yup, you did once upon a time but said you stopped reading it a while ago. (which is totally fine, the reason is understandable.) The mix of yours and Keii's descriptions do sound a lot better than mine. Lol Thank you Fish and @keii’ii (Heart of Keol)! I've noticed people really like the word 'angst' when you describe heavy stuff. At least when I was a teenager everyone found it appealing. I'll tinker with it a bit and use Drop_Out and Fritz Fargo as a reference. Anyways, I'm going to stop talking now, don't want to bog down the main topic.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's a good point; 'the best things about this story' and 'things that should go in its blurb' have an overlap, but they aren't always the same.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Yeah, I did but I'll probably pick it up again eventually. I remember enjoying it. If you do want to keep talking, we can move to shop talk?

mirandalorian

babbling I have the first three episodes of my webtoon ready to post tomorrow and I’m really excited and feel kinda proud that I made it this far...even though it’s not very far. It’s far for me without posting immediately end babbling

Feather J. Fern

I forgot to ask, but if people are tabling at cons, do you guys have promo stuff at your con tables for your comics?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Mostly a business card, but yes

carcarchu

i never did but my table partner one year had free postcards she gave out with purchase / to passerbys with her comic info and an illustration on it

kayotics

I always keep free postcards to advertise my comic on the table right next to my business cards.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yep, the free postcards did wonders for me last year. They disappeared quickly!

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Buisness cards and postcards~

Feather J. Fern

Seems like Business and Postcards are the way to go.

Mei

business cards!!

i might be making flyers/postcards for my comic next time though! :D

sagaholmgaard

I haven't done much to promote my comic but I've gotten some good ideas reading through this, thanks! I currently plug my updates in twitter and instagram with a cool/fun panel from the new page. I do also share WIPS and try to engage through my instagram stories (Asking things like, 'what type of benders would the Reclaim squad be in an avatar au' and making doodles for the answers), but that only reaches those who follow my IG. its good fun tho. I've done memes with the characters a few times but I didn't get much attention, LOL. But it's fun so maybe worth trying again

Spring-heeled Jack

Today I went into a locally owned comic shop and went to the guy that owns it and said "I'm a local artist and I'm writing a comic. Could I give you some small flyers to let people take?" And he said yes, and then asked if I have any physical copies. I don't yet but told him I'll bring some by when I have them. He then let me know he carries other local artists! Something cool to think about if you have a local comic shop.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ooo that's good to know

I droped off my zines at my local comic shop but maybe I'll drop flyers of my webcomic too lmaooo

Spring-heeled Jack

I also just ordered a business card carrier so I can tote some around with ease. I carry my flyers in my sketchbook. You should totally ask, it never hurts! Carry a few extra just in case you find yourself in a new area and find another cafe or comic shop.

I ran mine off on my at home printer on some nice quality but regular weight paper. I might need to get some more professionally done.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I keep a handful of business cards in my wallet -- that way, any time someone says "hey, that looks cool, what are you drawing?" they get a card with the title and URL. Slowly but steadily burns through the supply.

DanitheCarutor

Seeing if my local book shops will carry copies of my comic when I print them eventually is something I'm kind of excited about! My town is hardcore into supporting local artists and writers, so that'll be something neat to try out. Although I'm a little nervous that the rating might be a little too mature for what the vendors want on their shelves.

I know of using postcards to advertise, but never heard of fliers. Maybe I'll give that a try.(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I use double sided business cards, so on one side, it showcases some of my art, and the other side has contact info, a link to my comic website, and a QR code. It's been pretty helpful so far at conventions.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

You guys have all these sophisticated answers to this and my answer is just "scream on every social media platform I can reach and every person I meet about my comic."

Though I may not scream at people irl,,,

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Let's see... I have a twitter where I repost my comic pages, and a couple mirrors that help reach different audiences. I've also carried around business cards that have my comic's URL on it. One fun strategy I've used is doing review-exchange things, in an I-critique-your-comic-if-you-critique-mine way (with the assumption that most people who read all the way through Super Galaxy Knights end up liking it). Though, that isn't really viable anymore now that the comic is 600+ pages, cuz nobody would ever agree to that trade lol. And... that's pretty much it? Though, I should note that my goal with Super Galaxy Knights isn't to make the most popular comic I can so that I can make a living off ads or patreon or print sales or whatever. If I ever do manage to make money off the comic, it'll be in "spinoff tech" (basically, video games or other media based off it). (it's the reason why a bunch of early Starstuff Stories fleshed out the abilities of the characters they focused on) I would like people to read the story because I think people would like the story, but it's not like my future depends on its popularity.

Holmeaa - working on WAYFINDERS

We (me and Q) are gonna (hopefully) tabeling at cons this year! I thought about doing free non permenant tattoos with our comic things. Also we have beautiful zines of the first chapter to sell. but a free postcard is also good

Desnik

promotional strategies...ah...the biggest thing I did for my first webcomic, RAWR! Dinosaur Friends, was simply update on a general platform (tumblr), using a consistent schedule and the same tags every time. That allowed some of the bigger biology/humor/critter blogs on tumblr to find me and I got a lot of people reading from their generous reblogs. I found some more niche crossover from sci-comm blog comments and dinosaur toy collector forums, because sometimes I'd have a comic that would coincide with paleontology news. It was mainly about finding my niche and bringing my stuff to that niche. To those struggling with finding readers, I would recommend distilling the contents of your comic and then reaching out to people who buy/read things like your comic. I've definitely made friends from general 'webcomic' forums and discords, but in terms of building a readership it's all about finding the niche and catering to it in a human way

In general I highly recommend shopping around for stuff like hobby blogs/forums/groups/discords that have some relation to the content of your webcomic. Those people DO want new content related to their hobby, but they don't really deal well with salesy pitches. Just be human and also a nerd for that hobby, too (nerdy enough to make webcomics about it)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, it's like fan comic for an existing IP with an existing fandom, except it's a fan comic of a 'thing' rather than an IP (e.g. you make a pirate comic? Great! Nobody owns pirates, but there are lots of pirate fans out there!).

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

The very first customer I had at the first con I tabled at, came over and said "I like ghosts! I like the ocean! I'll take it!" And wrote me later saying it was exactly what they were looking for.

And honestly it's all because I make sure every cover has something spooky and something watery, and the genres are in the title I make it very easy for people to understand what it might be like.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

omg the genres are in the title

that's genius

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Definitely not planned But it helps so much!

I think if authors have a rule on certain symbols/motifs they MUST make sure come across on covers/posters/etc, that can be a good marketing strategy. With some wiggle room, of course.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I... I feel like I can barely even describe what my comic is, which makes it so hard to market. 'Do you like comics with cute animals and eldritch horrors and angsty teens that have superpowers and hidden religious symbolism everywhere?!? Then my comic is for you!' What even is that demographic, because I sure don't know.(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios) If you take away the cute animals part, that actually sounds like stuff a lot of teens are into/ a lot of people were into when they were teens. And most people love cute animals, so adding that to the mix, in theory, shouldn't reduce the accessibility too much. Buuuuut CoS has its unique flavor that's decidedly different from all the "angsty teens, eldritch horrors, religious symbolism" stuff I consumed when I was younger. I don't know how to describe that flavor, nor how to utilize it for marketing. But yeah, maybe some food for thought?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I've used short phrases that are sort of representative to describe my comic. Examples include "consensual mind control" "a guy whose ideal life is not being entirely alive" "friendship" and "anticlimactic conversations"

I have no idea how effective any of those are

someone tell me pls

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

As someone who just started reading your comic last night I think consensual mind control is a really cool descriptor. I haven't heard that too much before.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

!

that makes me happy

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@keii’ii (Heart of Keol) Heh, I'm not sure what that unique flavour is, either, but it might have something to do with me avoiding the typical 'chosen one' structure that most teen fantasy literature has. The characters are all (except Fawna) a part of the hidden world already rather than discovering it, and everyone's pretty much running around like chickens with their heads cut off rather than having any power over their situation (which is kind of a huge part of the theme of the comic). It's definitely different than the typical urban fantasy, so it's been really hard to find which audience that appeals to. From what I've gathered based on the people who comment on my website, it's mostly academics in college or beyond, for whatever reason. XD

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Honestly I think for almost all comics their first pages were what convinced me to keep reading. Even with Phantomarine I was ambivalent about the description but then I saw the first page, and though, yeah, I'm into this.

Maybe my own comic can be the same way

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Exactly the same with me and your comic - I was also all about that first page It's a powerful thing! I think for anyone about to delve into a comic - which is, by nature, a very visual thing - it's going to be that visual that ultimately pushes them over the edge.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

maybe my description should just be ascii art of my main character O-O | -(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

^ It's why I tinkered with the first page of HoK soooo many times even after it went live. But it wasn't enough; it still gave off the wrong impression as to what kind of a story one should expect. Finally, more than a year after I started posting it, I redid like 1/4 to 1/3 of chapter one from scratch. Even though it will never be perfect, I can live with it now. chapter 2 on the other hand... It's an imperfect intro to the right story, rather than an intro (good or not) to the wrong story.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

To be honest, my intro probably doesn't hit the right notes to explain what my comic is about, which may be part of my problem. It starts out seeming more like an anthropomorphic fantasy than a dark urban fantasy / horror story. That's just something I think I'm going to have to live with, because I'm tired of reworking old pages (I already do it far too much). I think my best solution is drawing a new cover that showcases the tone and subject matter better than the one I'm using now.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oh god, you reminded me of the 3 cover pages I spent hours on only to later scrap. Then my current cover page I did in one hour after it came to me at 4am(edited)

and it was perfect

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

XD

and my page redoings were after the reboot.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Cap, I don't know how representative it is of the story but I looked up the Ashes cover page and it's very impressive

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, I already redrew my intro once.... and this is the third iteration of this comic. And I'm currently redrawing the first two chapters of my other comic. I'm so sick to death of starting over. -_-

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Oh, thank you!! I like to go all-out on covers, heh.

Kabocha

Promotion... ... is that a thing you can eat? ... A few things I've tried is business cards -- tweeting about it -- posting about it on dA... I try to stay away from services like Tapas and Webtoon because I'm not formatted for those sorts of things, and I fear I'll probably just frustrate myself. It's a delicate balance right now between remaining happy with my work and getting it seen, but overall, I guess I'm not too stressed about it since it's not a source of income for me... I just... like making comics. I've also done conventions -- Conventions are fun, don't get me wrong, but nowadays they're a really low return on interest for many shows for original stuff (except slice of life and "oh no I did a bad" types of zines -- people seem to really enjoy things like that since it's often pretty easy to relate to). They feel like they used to be easier for selling original work, but the market's gotten rougher because there's so much competition and only so many dollars. if I ever print, I'm probably going to have to lean on some marketing-savvy friends for help... Hopefully things haven't changed too much by then. I think the tool that's worked best for me in the past few years has been doing guest comics here and there, as well as using topwebcomics, oddly enough. TWC was pretty good for referrals when I started doing comics way back in 2006~2007...

sagaholmgaard

Since the topic is about promotion... Do yall know if there are any twitter hashtag events for webcomic creators? My friends in the indie game industry have certain hashtags that people can post in during specific times every week - do we have anything similar?

Kabocha

#Webcomicchat!

https://webcomicchat.com/for-creators You may also find this page helpful

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

#webcomicchat is great because you get to talk shop while talking about your own work! It's not just "look at my comic"

sagaholmgaard

Ahh!! Thank you!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I know some people do #WebcomicWednesday - not sure how official it is, but it gets some attention!

sagaholmgaard

I'll check that one out as well!

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

There's also #comicartistsunite too

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

webcomicchat always looked like fun, but I definitively am on the wrong side of the globe for the times it's going on

mirandalorian

Promotion is difficult. I always feel like I'm being too pushy, even for something that's free. I also feel like I built up a following that had nothing to do with comics or art and so when I switched directions to head that way, i don't get the response I would like. Reading all the thoughts here has been really helpful tho. Just got to put them into practice

Feather J. Fern

I think my current attempt for promotion is at least being more willing to promote. I have to force my fear of "I shouldn't tell people because it's not as good as (blank)" and just shove my comic into a spotlight

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

If anyone is worried about bothering people, putting variety into your promotions will make things more palatable for people for sure. I have one person on my timeline spamming the same exact post over and over again, almost daily, and it doesn't seem to be doing them any favors There's no need for a promotion every day. The people I see that do a more-obvious promotion tweet, like, weekly, or every two weeks, seem to get good results from that Sometimes less is more

mirandalorian

I need to get to that point Feathery. And ya, daily is a bit extreme imo. But I have to figure out the good balance

Feather J. Fern

Even weekly I don't do it because I feel like I am spamming and I feel awkward

Oh! Speaking of promotions, one way I found I got my comic promoted was by doing guest comics for other people! I got lots of viewers after each guest comic I did

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, for social media promo, e.g. on Twitter, you want to make your actual tweets have value -- not just things being linked off the tweets. (This is where gag-a-day kinda comics have an advantage, because each strip has entertainment value and you can just post the whole strip in a tweet.) Obviously this doesn't apply to every promo tweet; so like, weekly promo tweet that's solely about the links, as mentioned by others, is fine. But yeah, aside from those, you wanna make your promo tweets fun to read.

Feather J. Fern

Also cameos! Cameos are a great promo

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Not gonna lie, I am lowkey paranoid about doing cameos. Someone I know had to remove their cameo of someone else's character, because that other person objected to their character being in the print version of the comic.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Uff

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh rip

Feather J. Fern

Oh man, that's rough.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'll never even print HoK but I can still imagine someone being all "NOPE, I CHANGED MY MIND" at a later time

Feather J. Fern

I am planning to do some cameos for other people, not that Go Figure will ever be in print but I can see that problem. I think what I would say is that if you want a cameo you have to be 100% certain

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Might be a good idea to have a very simple agreement thing you can have them sign

Feather J. Fern

Yeah I was going to have a written consent form

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"I agree to let you do a cameo of my character, and to not be a jerk about it at a later time. Signed"

Feather J. Fern

Signed and dated by both parties XD

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

There's also the broad hashtags like #webcomics and even things more geared to genres like #drama and #fantasy and so on. Doing art memes helps sometimes, too.

mirandalorian

What do you think the best hashtags to use are? Is webcomics too saturdated?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm not sure about the best hashtags, but my biggest thing about hashtags on Twitter : don't use a bunch of hashtags in a single tweet!

For broad hashtags like #webcomics or #fantasy, I gotta wonder if anyone's actually checking those out...

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Yeah, I usually tag my update posts with #webcomic and my comic's name, but honestly I have no idea if #webcomic has ever helped out my post ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

mirandalorian

Ya, I typically keep it to two or less, but i always wonder if webcomic is actually useful lol

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

takes note to use something more specific than #webcomic in my next update tweet

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think it may potentially be useful as a label for someone who's just found you on that platform, and is not sure what you're promoting. But beyond that...

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

I usually use #historicalfiction and #webcomic. Not sure which one helps more, but well, there it is.

mirandalorian

Ya, I should use the genre tag too.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Do people even search genre tags for that matter lol (a bit pessimistic, but still a genuine question)

like, I'll be the first to admit, I don't hashtag search to look for new comics to read. I don't think I ever hashtag search ANYTHING, unless it's like..... a very active trend that I am interested in (e.g. an upcoming video game that I'm looking forward to)

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Well, the tags are popular enough to be suggested by twitter so I'd think some use them, probably likeminded folk.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Same keii. I mostly use hashtags to look for fan art, exclusively on Instagram.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

There's also a trend of "art sharing" tweets. I have found a couple of artists and webcomics through that kind of event, but again, the turnover isn't anything to write home about.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I wonder if readers make use of the search more than us creators do?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I doubt it, Lee

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

:/

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I never use it as a reader, at any rate, though I don't know if others are like that.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Though, actually that's not true, I have used hashtags to look at more things being posted within art events. So inktober, mermay, hourly comic day, etc.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

But art event hashtags are useful, because -- like I mentioned before -- those tweets provide entertainment value without anyone having to click on offsite links. e.g. the #StartToFinish tag that's hot right now.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I have followed new artists from those tags though and then checked out their off-site stuff. It's definitely a more round about way than someone specifically looking for comics to read via hashtag

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

From my limited observation, when people are looking for comics to read, they tend to ask for recs rather than do hashtag search?

"Anyone know of some good magical girl webcomics?" etc

which is a bit of a bummer for us creators, because that is completely outside of our control. Nothing we can do about it.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

here's the popularity for the #webcomics tag

So SOME people use it.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight) I'm gonna guess it's mostly creators using them to promote, rather than readers using them to search.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Also it seems to be peak in popularity in the USA

@keii’ii (Heart of Keol) the graph implies interaction, really.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

What counts as interaction?

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

tweeting it and searching it

what I'm saying is we can't know.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t so much in Twitter, but I personally DO search hashtags on Insta to find new art.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's true, we can't know. I just personally can't imagine anyone searching for #webcomics to find stuff to read

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Insta is definitely hashtag game city.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, IG is a different beast

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Comics don’t generally gel so well with Insta’s format, though, so I’m usually seeking art and not comics.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

just to be safe, occasionally use it

To be honest, I'm probably more likely to find and become a fan of webcomics here on this server than any social media

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, I wouldn't say "don't use #webcomics" -- use it if you have no other, more specific tags to put. But on Twitter, you don't want too many hashtags, so if you got more specific ones... use those instead!

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

I feel somewhat self conscious in getting an instagram. But I'll get one most likely.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It might be a good idea to switch up your tags regularly? Choose two or three from a relevant list each update and see if any of those tweets get a noticeable boost in engagement.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Yeah that sounds a good strategy

speaking of, any other creators into historical webcomics?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I don't seek them out, but there's some that I read.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

yours is touching upon the historical keii with the joseon-style elements.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's definitely not historical but yeah, got the aesthetics going for it!

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Yeah!

I must admit, I'm a bit starved for like-minded creators. I mean people that create historical webcomics. I know and follow a few but that's not nearly enough.

(if I'm babbling too much for creator babble please tell me!)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Babbling is fine! But this might be better for #general or possibly shop talk as it's not related to this week's topic?

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

oh sorry, there's a specific topic here too?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, all the channels under CTP Activities have a... topic thingie that changes weekly

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

okay got it. I'll take it there. Sorry :/

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Don't be sorry, be glad to chat about this stuff in another channel

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

With insta please be mindful that if you‘ll always post with the same hashtags, their algorythmn likely will assume you‘re a bot.

mirandalorian

Oh really?

I definitely did not know that.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yup, it‘s a big annoyance. At least it was that way half a year ago, how is the algorythm now? Nobody knows.

I kinda hate insta, but it‘s the platform with the most interactions for me, although I don‘t know if it goes beyound liking my panel cutout.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Instagram does it‘s darnest to lock the user into theor own ecosystem.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

Yeah, hard same. I definitely get the most likes there, but I get very few referrals from insta.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Funnily, the only social media where I KNOW I got at least one reader from is pillowfort and their teeny-tiny webcomic comunity!

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I keep wanting to hop over there, but also starting a new social media sounds exhausting TuT one day.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I need to start using PF

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

It‘s pretty chill, reminds me of the hey-day of livejournal, with great filtering - more intended to create many small communities than one giant pot like twitter.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I don’t think any platform’s algorithms like me. I get very low engagement no matter where I post. I’m just not good at figuring out what these platforms pick up.(edited)

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I still have three invites left for this week.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Does cross promotion work for you guys at all?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

A little bit? But I think my comics are a hard sell, so I generally don’t get a lot of referrals when I cross-promote with other creators.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

It‘s how I found this community; but otherwise, nope.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Now I need to check out your comics Lee. I'm intrigued!

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Haha, if you want to! If they’re not your cup of tea that’s a-okay.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I still have three invites left for this week.

@chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa] if you don't have plans for those invites, I would definitely take one and follow you first

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

About the hashtag thing on Twitter..... I have found the hashtags #webtoon #webtooncanvas and #celebrateCANVASday to be particularly useful for those of us publishing on Webtoon Canvas. I have gained a few new readers from this, and the official Webtoon Canvas page often retweets when these hashtags are used.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

That's good to know. I'm planning to start mirroring on Webtoon so I'll have to be sure to remember to use those tags.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I need to fix my series on WT first. But I'll give those hashtags a try once that's been done

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I tried using webtoon hashtags a few times, but their page never retweeted me. It seems either random, or there’s some hidden requirement for getting a rt.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

i use the tag sometimes but I found it more responsive if you have a vertical scrolling format comic

then they're more likely to respond to you

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oh, yeah.... I use a traditional page format.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

same rip

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do combine all my pages into long episodes at the ends of chapters, so it’s kinda scrolling, but they’re just traditional pages stacked on top of each other, lol. WT definitely doesn’t like that, but I don’t have the time to reformat hundreds of pages.

Feather J. Fern

Also promo thought, I randomly joined people's streams before and then got hooked on their comics after seeing them draw on twitch or something like that

Pistashi

I struggle a bit with promo stuff, because I get too self-conscious about self-promoting and I'm the type of person that ends up doing too much of it or none of it

at the moment I'm working on making a press kit and sharing it with some blogs and networks about comics

but still, what I usually do is join groups and try to talk with people that works with art and comics

this is kind of more inclined to networking and meeting new people to talk about what we like than promoting my work to potential readers

nothing wrong with that, but looking with a more critical eye I still have a lot to learn about building an audience and reaching people who could become future readers

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I wonder HOW much a large social media following is worth. Insta‘s shown me that it isn‘t necessarily translating into readers.

carcarchu

in my experience followings on different platforms are non-transferable. same goes with having a large following on your comic itself, doesn't necessarily mean having a lot of followers on your art accounts. that's why they say "don't build your sandcastle in someone else's sandbox"

Pistashi

that makes a lot of sense

kayotics

If you’re building your following around your own content (original art, comic updates, etc) then the likelihood that the following is transferable is higher, but it’s still not 100%. You’re competing with everything else on their timeline too.

RebelVampire

i think a thing to consider with webcomics especially when it comes to social media is that a good portion of people who follow comic creators on social media are other comic creators, not people who are just readers. and the good majority of comic creators do not have a lot of time to read other webcomics. While there are certainly exceptions, I see those very few and far in between. So the conversion rates for social media right now are super low until the dynamic of the communities on the platforms changes.

kayotics

I’d agree with that, but also having a social media presence has definitely opened up some doors to being seen by other creators, many of whom are professionals. It’s good for networking, might not be the best for gaining and retaining readers.

RebelVampire

Oh yeah for sure. My point was about conversion factor

its factor in networking is a whole other matter entirely

and is indespensible

kayotics

One thing that I didn’t mention for myself is that networking has helped a LOT with getting new readers. Word of mouth, is always the best way to advertise, and other webcomic people giving you a plug can see some really strong results

[loquaciousquark]

Talks Machina Highlights - Critical Role C2E42 (November 20, 2018)

Dani was actually goofing around quite a bit here, but this still makes me think of some glorious 90s band, so I’m keeping it.

Anyway! The inimitable @eponymous-rose has done more than her share of recaps lately, so here I am picking up where I’ve been slacking off. Tonight’s guests are Marisha Ray and Laura Bailey (with special guest appearance from Ronin! Awwww), so I can hardly wait. We’re discussing Episode 42: A Hole in the Plan.

Tonight’s announcements: Brian is bursting with an announcement he’s not allowed to reveal for another six months. His favorite guess: something about him stealing all the money from the company and moving to an island, but that’s actually his long game, not the short one.

Throughout November, they’re raising money for Operation Supply Drop, Travis’s favorite charity, which supports both active and retired military.

No episode of Critical Role this week due to Thanksgiving. There will also be no episode of Talks Machina next Tuesday; instead, they’ll be airing Sam’s Fireside Chat! This was a reward from the Critter donations to the Pablove Foundation.

Critical Role hoodies are back in the store; the print is very similar to the original with a bit more embellishment on the text on the back.

“Honey Heist 3: Tova’s Honies” airs this Friday at 7pm Pacific! Marisha: “It was bear-nanas.” Laura: “Oh, no.”

CR Stats: Jester has cast Blessing of the Trickster 31 times; 15 of those times were on Nott. Jester technically won her bar brawl with Sorris! She dealt 16 points of damage to his 15. Beau continues to have the most natural 20s with 49. She also has the most natural 1s, womp womp. Marisha: “Well, I roll a lot, you know?” Brian: “Well, your husband is also a tyrant and not to be messed with.” Marisha says she thinks Gil’s die is cursed and everyone gasps. How dare.

Does Brian feel the pressure of following Dani, who was such an excellent host last week? No; when he went through the potential list of fill-ins, the only one that made sense was Dani.

Marisha sees Darktow as a super-abusive socialist society, which does not sit well with Beau. It’s a silk trap.

Jester’s conversation with Caleb was triggered by Fjord’s kiss, especially with her wondering if it really meant anything to either of them. Laura thinks of her high school crushes and how hard you crushed & how devastated you were at every perceived slight; Jester only has the view of romance through her mother, which means physical affection is very different from emotional affection in her mind. On Brian’s asking, Laura’s high school crush was Han Solo. When Laura’s sister was 12, she paid her $15 to paint Han and Leia in a dip kiss, which she still has framed in her current house. I’m dying, this is adorable.

Beau doesn’t exactly trust that Fjord is going to do the right thing, but him sleeping with Avantika doesn’t trigger her red flags in terms of “looking out for each other, keeping each other in check.” She’s looking more for them bullying someone when they don’t need to, being violent when it’s not necessary. “Pursuing power to endless depths and fucking hot pirates, that’s fine with Beau. She just doesn’t want to kill children.” Brian marvels at how this fits into Jester & Caleb’s conversation about killing people from the most recent episode.

Jester can tell Caleb is tortured, and more than anything she wants people not to be sad around her. She just wants desperately for him to be happy.

Marisha has thought a ton about what Beau would have said if Jester had come to her first about the kiss, especially since it was Jester’s first kiss (Marisha assumes, and Jester answers in an adorably non-committal not-not-a-negative). Beau would have been game for it. She doesn’t know if Beau would have given good advice, but she would have tried her best.

Brian spills that Mary’s character’s CHA in their home game is 6. They discuss Nott’s score of 5 and enjoy themselves mightily at both of their expenses.

GIF of the Week! By @ropadoper, it’s Liam casting Reduce and then the Wall of Fire at the end of the episode, both of which involve Marisha falling out of her chair to the floor in reaction so that only her forehead is visible. Everyone is being so cute this episode I can hardly stand it.

As a reminder, an international shipping facility has been created in the UK. Laura asides to tell Travis the keys are in the diaper bag. Literally everyone is in the studio tonight except Sam, EVEN ASHLEY.

Jester thinks the Traveler always gives very good advice, but his suggestion to trick Fjord was the first time ever she felt a little hesitation to follow his advice. Brian: “Is that because he’s never been wrong or because she’s never been allowed to disagree?” Laura says it’s always been amazing advice so far, much more a best-friend relationship, but this was the first time she didn’t want to take his suggestion wholesale because she wasn’t sure it’s how she wanted to get Fjord to like her. Marisha really likes the dynamic of finding out your childhood best friend is a god.

Beau finds herself still being careful with her walls--Marisha imagines Beau was put in a lot of, like, pageant dresses as a kid--so when Jester commented on her hair and then laughed, she felt a little of that “wait, what, do you actually care? Do I look like shit?” Laura says she laughed, not Jester, because it was the most random thing to compliment Beau on.

Beau’s haircut came into being because it was cool & because Marisha wishes she were brave enough to try an undercut.

Brian’s convinced Fjord’s got gills. Dani: “What do you think Fjord is?” Brian: “Obviously a water man. Water genasi. What are water genasi?”

Beau wasn’t surprised Allison rejected her; she’s used to it. Ack. She was looking for an ally against Avantika, Big Brother style. “Instead she just shat in an alleyway with Nott.”

Laura’s not perturbed the Traveler hasn’t mentioned Fjord’s god; he doesn’t really talk about/care about other gods or patrons. Brian suggests he’s actually the Dongfather in disguise. This show’s collective mental age is smaller than Pike, haha. 

Beau felt like such an interloper when Sam asked her to help with Fluffernutter, like the best friend trying to be in on a joke without really knowing what’s going on. Marisha also takes a moment to praise Laura for her Jester over the last few episodes; she’s digging into the metaphorical popcorn every time Jester & Nott start going off. (Me too, bud.) Jester’s description of the insect carrying a piece of bread is one of her favorite D&D moments ever. Both Marisha & Laura are agog at how many little plans they’ve tried have gone disastrous and then circled back around to being mostly okay again.

Beau was a little hurt when she wasn’t asked to help break into the captain’s quarters, since that’s her specialty, but it was eased by being able to help with her knowledge anyway. However, she knew since she didn’t have any magic, she had no escape plan aside from jumping off the boat. She laughs that that’s what they ended up doing anyway. 

Jester views sex as a transaction, which is why she’s not particularly bothered by Fjord sleeping with Avantika.

Fanart of the Week: @jdillustrates, with a lovely portrait of Caduceus.

Jester’s warring between the logical part of her brain (he was saving her life) and the romantic part of her brain (did he want to kiss me, though?).

There are reasons Beau learned Deep Speech--not as complicated as most people think--that will be revealed eventually. “Nerdy reasons, not because she was kidnapped and turned into a cultist.”

Fjord/Avantika does make her jealous, but it’s also serving a purpose. Laura compares it to telling the high school crush to go hang out with a best friend, only to have them start dating.

Marisha doesn’t feel like Beau’s plans were overly shot down this episode--it’s something she hadn’t even noticed until this question. Marisha feels like it’s so much of a group effort with everyone trying to get to the right plan that it’s hard to pick out who contributed what part of which plan.

Brief interlude to examine a portrait of Brian that looks like George Michael.

In re: the Molly disguise: Beau felt like there was just a wall of regret walking towards her, because it was the friend she let die and the one-night stand. Beau never felt it was actually Molly, though. Jester picked Molly because when Nott said “Keg,” she instantly associated it with “someone who is really cool--who’s also super cool?” Everyone commiserates over how into the night’s shenanigans Molly would have been.

Beau was frustrated while being detained, but she also knew it was going to happen, so it wasn’t a huge issue. She felt like that was where the challenge began for her--anything to get the guard away from what was going on. 

Another brief interlude where everyone experiments with how to make power vaginas with their hands. “This is the car salesman power vagina.” I feel like wherever the rails are for this show, they’re so far gone they might as well be little stars in the sky.

Laura thinks Jester’s reaction to Caleb’s backstory would be much different than Caleb imagines it. Both Laura & Marisha talk about how Caleb’s convinced the moment people realize, they’re gone; there’s also the complication that Beau’s “comforting” is not actually that comforting. “She’d say, ‘you know, they won’t care,’” (which Marisha points out, Caleb would respond--how could someone not care about this?) when what she means is, “They love you and won’t abandon you over this.”

Laura and Marisha are both pumped about Caleb’s Wall of Fire--the walk to the dock was like “getting called to the principal’s office, except the principal is going to kill you.” Laura’s immediate reaction was regret she’d tossed the gems, but she loved his decision since she was panicking IRL & her heart was legit pounding. They also both get super enthusiastic bashing Nott’s plan to dump the haversack in an alley. “It’s bright pink! Someone would have definitely seen it!”

Marisha really misses Professor Thaddeus, but is convinced she’ll never see him again. Dani: “He’s your Nymeria, your Arya.” Marisha, tearfully: “He’s gonna come with his flock of owls and gouge out everyone’s eyes but ours.”

Laura’s convinced Sprinkle is magic, since he definitely should be dead twice over.

Quebec is for Lovers: After Dark edition

Neither Laura nor Marisha are cooking this year. Laura & Travis have no Thanksgiving plans at all this year. My gosh, if they were here my parents would be stuffing them full of turkey yesterday, even though they have no idea who they are.

Brian teases Max over messing with Trinket & carrying him back and forth in his car. Dani wants one TM where Brian isn’t mean to Max. Max, offscreen: “I’m FINE. I’m GOOD.” Marisha laughs that Max was okay with Brian’s teasing but shooting daggers at the TDs laughing.

Brian gives Dani an A for amazing and adorable, but not asshole.

Dani ships Percy/Vex, Keyleth/Vax, and Fjord/Jester. Close after is Kima/Allura & Caleb/Jester. She would be surprised if it happened, but wouldn’t object. Marisha asks, as a shipper, what does Dani look for in a quality ship. Dani likes clear feelings with clear reciprocation, canon connections; she doesn’t ship a ton of subtexty stuff.

Laura has been relistening to Vex’s playlists & crying. Both she & Marisha really miss Vex & Keyleth. Liam texted Laura the other day a fanvid of Vex & Vax that made her cry.

Marisha gets emotional seeing fanart of older Keyleth because it means that she’s living on & being happy. Noelle also came up & thanked Marisha for giving Tova a purpose after the latest Honey Heist, and everyone talks about how many hours they’ve spent creating and living in these people.

Marisha can’t listen to Tokyo Sunrise by LP anymore because it instantly makes her cry.

Beau is not a mindflayer. Everyone’s convinced, Marisha.

If Laura had Jester’s paint set, she’d draw home improvements. She’d draw a door for her bathroom into Ronin’s nursery. Marisha would draw more producers--”Not to undermine the ones I have! We’re so overworked!”

Brian looks to Max for the time left, only to have missed Dani literally just giving him the signal.

Brian starts to say he’ll see us next week, but Dani tells him not to confuse us since there’s no TM next week. Brian: “We’ll see you next week this Thursday Critical Role on youtube.com, Logan Paul guest starring, along with Paul Rudd, Rudney Dangerfield...”

Max, as the sound fades: “Okay, please...”

And that’s it for tonight. See you next time, everyone!

[rhetorical-ink]

Rhetorical Ink: Game of Thrones Series Finale Review

** FANFIC FODDER SPOILERS BELOW **

So, it has all come down to this -- finally, the series finale to Game of Thrones -- a series I started watching right as the infamous “Red Wedding” was happening, and have watched alongside friends and family for the last five years (since that was in year 3 when I got into it). How does it end? Well, here are

My Top Ten Thoughts on Game of Thrones, season 8, episode 6:

10. Tyrion finding his brother and sister was hard to watch -- not only because Peter Dinklage is such a good actor in that moment, but also because one, it means he’s going to have “nothing to lose” when he confronts Dany again (which makes me UBER nervous) and second, because...it was really easy for him to find Jaime and Cersei. Like, the memes weren’t far off in how shallow that brick grave was, y’all.

9. I won’t lie -- the moment the dragon wings framed Dany, I was okay with this scene -- it’s honestly how I pictured this moment, her addressing her troops and the victorious Dothraki -- of course, then Dany’s like, “We’re going to cleanse EVERYWHERE like we have King’s Landing. Breaking the wheel ain’t easy, y’all. In any case, Tyrion gives up his title as hand and Dany holds him accountable for his treason. We all know where this is headed, sadly.

8. I’m super happy Dany didn’t just burn Tyrion the first chance she got, since they’ve been through so much together -- but that speech to Jon Snow in the holding room. It’s necessary to build up Jon’s decision to kill Dany, and Tyrion points out all of these moments that show Dany’s madness buidling -- buuuuuut, it’s a little contradictory and almost seems like the writers putting that in as a way to justify Dany’s heel turn. If Tyrion knew all these markers in the first place, surely he would have acted differently leading up to this or have made more effort, knowing she’s going mad, to prevent the eventual burning of King’s Landing...but you know...I do like that Tyrion is finally like, “I’m going to play the family card” and shoves in Jon’s face that Dany is very much going to kill his sisters if he doesn’t stop her. Yep, that pretty much does it and seals Dany’s fate.

7. The vision of the undying is fulfilled, as we see Dany actually touch the throne, reaching her goal. It’s actually a little heartbreaking when Dany reverts back to her more “normal” self, smiling at the realization that she’s reached her goal and won. And then, of course, Jon has to march in.

Now, when he first got to the throne room and the dragon shifted all the ash/snow off, that was a cool shot (no pun intended)!

Jon confronts Dany and calls her out and quickly realizes there’s no compromise with Dany -- and as he kisses her, stabs her. I could see it coming a mile away, but it didn’t make it any less painful to watch. An unfortunate necessity and really, a shame. There’s so much they could have done with Dany, and it ends just like that.

6. What I AM happy for is that Drogon doesn’t die! He comes in, MELTS the Iron Throne in a fit once he sees Dany’s dead, and carries her away into the air, not to be seen again in the episode. At least HE made it out alive! And Bran even mentions “tracking down” Drogon later, so does that mean he’ll warg into him? Why didn’t we get to see THAT? Also, for a split second, I thought Drogon was going to try and roast Jon Snow and we’d be given some naked Kit Harrington fan service. But noooo, nothing like that sadly.

5. So, in an effort to try and restore peace amid the death of two Queens -- Tyrion and Greyworm meet among the council of the most powerful minds in Westeros to discuss what to do now.

I actually laughed out loud when everyone rejected Sam’s idea of a democracy -- clearly, we’ve spent 8 seasons knowing the general population of Westeros is garbage, so having them VOTE on a new ruler seems a bit toooo modern for the medieval world.

I really wanted them to just make a large council out of everyone there at the meeting and bring all the leaders together -- sort of like an EU situation. Justice League. Something -- but they pick a King nonetheless, just one that is a “one term” king? So, they just keep electing new rulers that aren’t related? Okay...still, of ALL people to pick.....

....it’s Bran.

Bran’s the King of Westeros.

To those that picked him as the one to sit on the Iron Throne. Ya did it.

Y’all did it.

I realized as Tyrion was talking that he was seriously about to make Westeros’s version of Internet Explorer the King and was taken slightly aback.

Granted, Edmure Tulley sure wasn’t getting the title, and Tyrion did not want it...but...Bran? Bran clearly is just a figurehead and with no real authority, other than being an omniscient being. Can three-eyed ravens be Kings? Clearly, they can in this finale!

4. I get a little at a loss as to what all “changed” or what “wheel” was broken by the end of the series, other than the North regaining its independence. I mean, Tyrion is still Hand of the King (as a “punishment” -- okay -- King Bran the Broken -- at least his title matches his power). The council is still there with the same titles, just with people we actually LIKE in the places of total pricks. But it’s still the same set up -- the same order -- maybe we’re supposed to believe things will take a turn for the better.

I can’t help but feel haunted by Jon’s words, though, in wondering if what he did was right. I suppose that emptiness IS supposed to resonate with us -- that our choices have a lasting consequence.

STILL, I would have liked the council idea better -- with Sansa refraining and claiming the North as its own land. How does that song go again, though? You can’t always get what you want...

3. Thank goodness Brienne gets to go back and write Jaime a happy ending! I did like that part -- Sam, though, didn’t have to hit us over the head with his Frodo moment of “A Song of Ice and Fire.” Eye roll.

I DO, though, if I had to pick anything, LOVE the endings for Arya and Sansa -- yeah, we don’t get any Gendry or Tyrion ship moments, but instead get a really fitting ending for both women. Arya gets to sail into the unknown West of Westeros (can we do a spinoff? Not sure Maisie’s up to it, especially since her character gets out mostly unscathed) and Sansa becomes the fierce Queen of the North, just as she should.

Y’all -- the fashion on Sansa’s dress? Can we get a winter cosplay up in this?

2. Jon Snow “takes the black, again,” though do we really have a Night’s Watch now? It seems more like he goes to the North and reunites with the Wildlings and Ghost -- at LEAST he gets to see Ghost again and give him a proper petting! Seriously, I just knew in my stomach it wouldn’t be the last time we saw that Direwolf! And in the end, Jon heads north of the wall with Tormund and the Wildlings, and we see a small smile -- like it was meant to be and he was finally happy.

The. End.

1. So...I didn’t HATE this ending -- I’ve seen a lot of series endings that I loathed and this isn’t one of them. BUT, there was so much that was left unsaid or that I wanted to see more answers to:

* Where Drogon ended up or what he’s doing

* Where Nymeria’s pack is or that they are unused

* What happened to Gendry at Storm’s End

* What happened to the Vale and to the Iron Born

Lots of unanswered questions and characters thrown to the wayside, but overall, that episode salvaged what it could. I was disappointed with the season as a whole, but it could have been worse. I suppose.

Will it deter me from loving the series as a whole? No.

Will I probably check out the prequel series. Yep.

Is Game of Thrones still a series worth the watching? OF COURSE.

Now, though, I’m going to start reading the actual books, to see what is different, and to prep for the eventual releases of the final books.

And so my watch begins.

[safyresky]

92 Truths

I’M SO MAD I WANTED TO BE THE DOUBLE TAGGER BUT @mellomadness BEAT ME TO IT?????? I was originally tagged by @thewayhistoryiswritten. They tagged the whole fam so now I am gonna just sneak in here and be the TRIPPLE TAGGER B)

This one is really long?? So if you’re not about people oversharing on the internet then just skip down using “J” or blacklist long post, cause that’s what I’ll tag this as :)

(I would put a read more but half the people who tagged me use mobile and those don’t show up on mobile so...my apologies!)

Anyway let’s get to it, shall we?

LAST…

[1] drink: hot chocolate. for those keeping up with my roll up the rim #struggles, 15/15 have NOT won. 

[2] phone call: Richard, my lovely bf who couldn’t remember the cereal my sister wanted

[3] text message: my sister who has no idea what food I have at home and is staying until Sunday and needs to eat

[4] song you listened to: One of the songs off the Steven Universe music playlist I have on soundcloud

[5] time you cried: Watching Moana last week it just gets me EVERY TIME the powerful I AM MOANA!!!!! I JUST YES. YES YOU ARE. YOU ARE AND I AM A WRECK

HAVE YOU EVER…

[6] dated someone twice: Nope

[7] been cheated on: In a way yes but also no.

[8] kissed someone and regretted it: Nope

[9] lost someone special: Yes.

[10] been depressed: low key all of last year? it was a struggle. and not like diagnosed depressed just...feeling sad ALL the TIME and WORTHLESS and people would tell me you’re great and I just wouldn’t believe them b/c it didn’t feel like I was great at all. I couldn’t even write about my shitty frosty children I just....couldn’t. I couldn’t do anything but think about how shitty things were going and how much I wanted to sleep and sleep and sleep and forget about life

[11] gotten drunk and thrown up: I have never gotten drunk to the point of throw up but hey, tomorrow is paddy’s day and my sister wants me to get “turnt” and “wasted” so we’ll see if I go over my comfortable drunk limit of 5 alcohols. Will keep you posted!

LIST 3 FAVOURITE COLOURS:

[12] Blue

[13] Light blue

[14] Orange (Were you expecting more blue?? Hehe)

IN THE LAST YEAR HAVE YOU…

[15] made new friends: Yes!

[16] fallen out of love: No, I’ve just made my relationship STRONGER

[17] laughed until you cried: Oh my god yes I live in a house with 3 other immature young adults who are stressed to the max you would be surprISED how often one of us laughing until we cry happens

[18] found out someone was talking about you: Not in bad ways!

[19] met someone who changed you: I don’t think so, though my current friends may have effected my humour just a tad ;)

[20] found out who your true friends are: Yeah, actually! A lot of realizations happened this year let me tell you *side eyes my shitty pal who makes things about herself constantly*

[21] kissed someone on your facebook list: I mean Richard is my facebook friend so...yes? We’ve been dating for 5 years though so idk how much that counts?? Cause he’s my SO???

GENERAL…

[22] how many of your facebook friends do you know in real life: All of them I know well enough, I don’t add total strangers

[23] do you have any pets: My cat! Cinnamon! He’s so cute and such an affectionate lil bud for being a stray a year ago like what a cat I love him s o  m u c h he’s so sILLY

[24] do you want to change your name: I love my name very much. It can be spunky (Dani), elegant (Ella), and a mix of them both (Daniella!)

[25] what did you do for your last birthday: I turned 21 and...I actually can’t recall?? I think Richard and I went out to dinner and OH NOW I REMEMBER!

We went to the Works and he surprised me with all of my good friends being there and then we went home and he got me an ICE CREAM CAKE and my housemates put my gifts in a suitcase b/c we had no wrapping stuffs welcome to Student Life my guys

[26] what time did you wake up: At 7AM today b/c I had an 8:30

[27] what were you doing at midnight last night: I was messaging Ana bean and making my bed because my sister wanted to sleep and my sheets had just finished washing

[28] name something you cannot wait for: Summer! I have a job, I’m staying in Kingston, I’M GONNA PLANT SHIT!!!! IT’S gonna be gr8!!

[29] when was the last time you saw your mother: In February for reading week!

[30] what is one thing you wish you could change about your life: I wish my parents hadn't struggled so much when I was younger, b/c then I would have had decent RESP’s and wouldn’t owe the government so much money for school Dx

[31] what are you listening to right now: The chatter of nearby people eating lunch (I forgot my headphones today I’m real upset)

[32] have you ever talked to a person named tom: You know, I see soo many people in one shift that one of them was probably named Tom tbh

[33] something that is getting on your nerves: FIFTEEN (15) ROLL UP THE RIM TO WIN CUPS AND NOT A SINGLE WIN. EVERYONE I KNOW HAS WON SOMETHING BUT NOT ME I AM BITTER AF THIS HAS BEEN THE WORST YEAR FOR ME FOR ROLL UP THE RIM

[34] most visited website: this blue hellhole 

[35] elementary: St Herbert down the street from home. Everyone made fun of it and called it St Hubert’s, like the chicken place?? It bugged me as a kid now I’m like lmao yeah too bad they don’t have good chicken there

[36] high school: St Joe’s near my house! Commonly known as St Joe’s Hoes b/c there was a prostitute ring in the bathrooms in the 90s apparently??? And also everyone wore their kilts really high up. Those got banned. I was bitter I loved the kilt it was very warm

[37] college: Queen’s U! 

[38] hair colour: It is Chestnut brown, according to Laurentian pencil crayons (it’s dark brown enough that my boyfriend thought it was black for the first year and a half we knew each other hahaha)

[39] long or short hair: I like it longer because then I can put it up a lot?? Though mid-length is usually my go to

[40] do you have a crush on someone: Does my boyfriend count. B/c if so then hecka yes

[41] what do you like about yourself?: My eyebrows SLAY. I like that I have managed to build up my patience so much. I like that I’m super creative and helpful and I like that I try to be as supportive as possible and usually pals are like ye u are supportive which does me a GOOD right in the heart!! I am being a HELP!!

[42] piercings: just my ears!! i’ve always wanted a nose piercing ha but I wouldn’t go through with it, my pain tolerance is exactly 0

[43] blood type: No idea!

[44] nickname: Dani

[45] relationship status: In a relationship with the most WONDERFUL FLUFF EVER Richard is really gr8 okay I could talk about him for days what a guy

[46] zodiac sign: Libra

[47] pronouns: She/her

[48] fav tv show: Steven Universe

[49] tattoos: none. if I got one it would be a shooting star somewhere inconspicuous 

[50] right or left handed: right handed! for most things. I do use my left hand for odd things, like using a fork w/ a knife

FIRST… [51] surgery: wisdom teeth when I get them out this summer

[52] piercing: My ears when I was 2 months old or so

[53] best friend: PLEASE DO NOT AS ME THIS I HAVE MANY MANY BIFFERS (Richard, AJ, Ana, Jess, Athena...)

[54] sport: skiing 

[55] vacation: Mexico when I was 7! Maybe younger, I can’t recall. 

[56] pair of trainers: I just have converse?? Do they count??

RIGHT NOW…

[57] eating: Timbits

[58] drinking: Just finished a hot chocolate

[59] i’m about to: Finish a seminar response and then scream internally until I can go home

[60] listening to: People talking, still (there’s a lot of repeat questions here)

[61] waiting for: Class time

[62] want: A nap or two, a raise at work

[63] get married: One of these days! I keep asking Richard if we can just go to the courthouse and ELOPE but he keeps saying “yes let’s do that before we get married just go to a courthouse and wait on the big fancy ceremony until we can afford it!! He’s very set on being able to have a place for ourselves and such before hand which I agree with. But I still really wanna run to the courthouse one day and just fucking do it man)

[64] career: a writer with fame to rival that of J.K. Rowling, for instance, or the archaeologist who discovers Atlantis!

WHICH IS BETTER… [65] hugs or kisses: Hugs! I’m a really cuddly fuck but I love giving Richard kisses ALL OVER HIS FACE he gets soo happy!!

[66] lips or eyes: Eyes

[67] shorter or taller: Taller so I look cute when I attempt to be the big spoon, and so I can fit under the chin of my SO for MAXIMUM HUG

[68] older or younger: Older (irony b/c Richard is exactly 9 months older than me)

[70] nice arms or nice stomach: Both? Both. Both is good.

[71] sensitive or loud: Both? Both. Both is good.

[72] hook up or relationship: Relationship b/c I am not into the sex thing that much, occasionally yes but also not with a stranger?? I don;t look at someone like “I wanna tap that” usually my thought is “They’re pretty” or “I love their jacket” or “HOW DID THEY EYELINER???? THAT GOOD???” (Like ANA’S EYELINER OMG YOU ARE A MASTER AT THE EYELINER ANA PLEASE TEACH ME UR WAYS).

The only instance of “I wanna tap that” occurs like once in a full moon or two when I stare at Richard a v long time and thing HE IS SO WONDERFUL AND LOVELY I LOVE HIM LET’S GO RIGHT NOW INTO THE BED (TMI alert my guys, haha whoops)

[73] troublemaker or hesitant: Hesitant, though I can be a shit disturber, ask AJ. And Ana. And my other housemates, especially Richard. I can be a nuisance and have been confirmed to be an occasional menace >:)

HAVE YOU EVER… [74] kissed a stranger? Nope

[75] drank hard liquor? It depends on your definition? Sometimes I have a liqueur with my Dad but idk if it counts as hard liquor, it’s usually a Bailey’s

[76] lost glasses/contact lenses? ASK AJ I CONSTANTLY CANNOT FIND MY GLASSES B/C I CAN EVER REMEMBER WHERE I LEFT THEM

[77] turned someone down: In the most passive way possible. Fun fact: I once “friend-zoned” Richard, ha

[78] sex on first date? Heck no, I gotta know a guy or gal REALLY WELL before being like YES LET US ENGAGE IN COITUS, That is something I share with someone I trust fully and completely, not random people I meet on the first date (do people actually do that??) 

[79] broken someone’s heart? Probably?? I dunno

[80] had your own heart broken? Omg yes when I was a lil pre-high schooler, dear me

[81] been arrested? HA no

[82] cried when someone died? Heck yes! real people, fictional characters...I’m a mess

[83] fallen for a friend: Every crush I have ever had began with a friendship so yes

DO YOU BELIEVE IN… [84] yourself? Usually, yes!! I had a bad bout of thinking nothing would turn out right the past year but I’m back in the swing of thinking “It’ll be okay, you can do it”

[85] miracles? I think yes

[86] love at first sight? Love at first sight is a MYTH. Love takes time, patience. Love takes getting to know someone really well and knowing how you work with them and how they work with you. Love takes a lot and if love at first sight is a thing, it’s more like the IDEA of a person, not who they really really are.

[87] santa claus? For real, yes, I actually do b/c when I had lost my belief already, there was one year where my siblings (who had been naughty) weren’t on the christmas party lists at my parents work for gifts, and I was. So yeah. I have a solid belief in Santa make fun all you want idgaf 

[89] angels? Very much so. Ethereal angels and angels here I meet that have a profound impact on my life

OTHER… [90] current best friend’s name: I HAVE MANY but in no order, Richard, AJ, Jess, Ana, Athena... 

[91] eye colour: Brown

[92] favourite movie: Moana, Grease, Atlantis, El Dorado. Those are my top four. I think.

GOOD GRIEF THIS WAS A LONG ONE I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY AJ, YOU TOO MELLO. @divinitycas here is a third tag because yolo?? I guess??? Anyone else who likes to overshare on the internet please, be my guest!!! AND THEN TAG ME I LOVE LEARNING ABOUT OTHERS!!

[pika-ace]

Coraline au? With ITH babs and Vanessa can be Coraline? (Really anyone can be but I like Vanessa)

Oh yay! I was hoping this would be brought back! I remember talking to @hubris-but-no-writing about this once I believe, and yeah, this could have a bunch of different versions with different conflicts and different versions of the Other World!

Let’s start with Vanessa’s version (now that I think about it, young Vanessa fits Coraline’s personality PERFECTLY). So we got Vanessa (maybe between ages 8-10) and her mom moving into a new place, and Usnavi would TOTALLY be Wybie, like, no question (I know he’s only in the movie version and not the book but I don’t care I love him!). SO maybe we could have little Vanessa going through some emotional stuff with her mom, cause let’s say for this au, Vanessa’s dad is already dead. They moved shortly after his death to try and start over, but of course things aren’t going that great. Vanessa’s mom is super depressed and has low energy (not good for taking care of a little kid) and Vanessa’s just angry at the world, cause she’s a grumpy child. She meets the other barrio kids (for this, let’s make them all around the same age), like Nina, the Rosarios, Abuela, Dani, Carla, the Piraguero, and, of course, Usnavi and his baby cousin Sonny, with their dog Chip (he’s the cat, okay? Deal with it. But if you can’t, make it an OC cat, I don’t care), and one day, Nina finds a strange doll in Abuela’s trunk (cause Abuela lost a sibling to the Other Mother *gasp*). She shows it to Usnavi, and he decides to give it to Vanessa as a welcome present and TOTALLY not because he thinks she’s pretty or anything! So he does, and of course, Vanessa eventually goes to the Other World, where the Other Mother is, who, of course, looks just like her mom, but is ten times better. EVERYTHING is ten times better. Maybe her dad could be alive here, further tempting the want to stay. I’d also like to think that Other Usnavi is silent like in the movie because we all know Usnavi is a fast-talker and as a kid, I don’t think Vanessa would like it that much. Vanessa keeps going back, having a blast, until of course, Other Mother pops the question and Vanessa wants to book it the HELL out of there, and unfortunately, Other Mother doesn’t approve of her attitude. She gets locked in the mirror room where she meets the ghost children who warn her and she’s saved by Other Usnavi, only to find that her real mom is gone. So she suits up, and busts back in there, and she beats Other Mother with the help of the real Usnavi and the other barrio kids and everything’s great again!

For Nina’s version, I would think the conflict would be that her parents are working extra hard to get things all set, since they’re financially struggling and moving ain’t exactly cheap, so they aren’t spending time with her. Luckily, Nina has Usnavi, Vanessa, Benny (he could be our Wybie here), Abuela, and baby Sonny to keep her company. Benny and Nina find the doll at Abuela’s house and Benny lets Nina have it because ew, dolls are girly…and it looks like you, so you should have it. When she gets to the Other World, her Other Parents are super attentive and warm, the Other Benny doesn’t act as high and mighty as he did, her parents have money and the place where they live is just great! I think when shit goes down and Nina has to save her parents, she would be able to solve the riddles easier than anyone, since the girl has always been pretty smart.

Benny’s version would probably be the same as Vanessa since we know next to NOTHING about his parents and family; we know in the workshop version he had a mom, but that’s it. So we’ll go with that. This time, Benny gets the doll from Nina, since she’s a sweet girl and wants to make Benny feel welcome, but at first, Benny hates it ‘You gave me a doll?? I’m a boy! Boy’s don’t play with dolls!’ and hurts Nina’s feelings, but he keeps it anyway, and he doesn’t blame her when he finds out the doll’s a spy. In fact, I could see Benny go through this little arc where he realizes that girls aren’t all dolls and dresses, ESPECIALLY when Nina appears to help him fight off the Other Mother’s hand, shortly followed by the rest of the barrio kids.

Usnavi’s version would probably be similar to Nina, but with Sonny being a glaring difference. Sonny could be a toddler here, and since Usnavi’s getting pretty upset that his parents don’t have any time for him, he takes his anger out on Sonny. And maybe Sonny gives him the doll when he’s exploring Abuela’s apartment to make him feel better. 'It looks like you Navi. Maybe it’ll make you feel better.’ It doesn’t, but Usnavi takes the doll anyway, and soon finds the Other World. His Other Parents are great, and Other Sonny is everything he wanted; he’s calm, quiet, and does what he’s told! Unlike his real cousin! But when Usnavi gets trapped after refusing the buttons, the Other Sonny saves him and basically sacrifices himself to help Usnavi escape, which makes Usnavi think of the real Sonny. He comes back, and his whole family’s gone, even Sonny’s gone! Usnavi goes back to the Other World and does the things, and maybe he finds Sonny trapped in the Other Mother’s web (his parents are in the snowglobe). So Usnavi saves Sonny, and they both run from the Other Mother, and have a nice fluffy apology/comfort session afterwards.

And finally, Sonny’s version. This would have everyone be their musical age, and Sonny’s just annoyed at everything, cause Usnavi’s getting the store ready to go, and there’s really no one his age in the barrio. Except for Pete, who’s our Wybie for this, and he gives Sonny the doll, since he’s pretty excited about having someone his age finally move in. But I think the creepiest thing about all this, would be that the Other Mother would be in the form of Usnavi, and when Sonny makes him mad, he mutates in the monster that the Other Mother is (this story just oozes nightmare fuel). But I could imagine Sonny coming back to the Other World when Usnavi’s taken with his baseball bat, just barging in, swinging madly 'Where’s my cousin, you bitch?!’

Ahh, so many versions, so little time…pick your favorite and do what you will with them to your heart’s content!!

[stariishii]

This is the story of my first love

(Warning! Very long story, sorry,) Summer of 2018, I’m 14 years old, fresh outta grade 9. I’m short (5,2), blue eyes, semi long blond hair, chubby face, really pointy nose, I think I’m the fuglyest troll that ever lived, very low self esteem. Hopeless romantic. I had a crush on practically any boy that ever looked at me but they never liked me back because I’m a troll. One day, last day of grade 9 my friend Dany invites me into this truth or dare circle with a bunch of people I’ve never met before. I hate truth or dare but whatever, I play anyway. A few days later school is out and I go with some girls to a coffee shop for a book club get together, it takes an hour or so and I start walking home but I realize that my friend Dany and that group of people is at the beach so I head over there. I sit down at a round, stone table at the beach with these people I don’t know and they’re playing never have I ever and they’re all soping wet and shivering, one guy didn’t have a bathing suit and went into the water in his jeans 👖. We play never have I ever for a bit and I feel a little uncomfortable because I didn’t know everybody, I knew Dany, this girl named Hannah that was in my gym class, a guy named Landen that I had socials with and a girl named Sofía that I had English with. The group decided to go to KFC or Dairy Queen or something because they were hungry. I was still a little out of place because Dany was hanging out with everyone else and I wasn’t close with anybody else there. Let me introduce the crew, there’s Dany, my best friend, tall, a hot mess, long, curly, dyed, blonde hair, high heels, never wears the same outfit twice, the sweetest person I’ve ever met (the drunk mom friend). Gage, also known as Gageriel, VERY tall boi (6,1), has been hit by a car 7 times, does dumb shit for entertainment like eating things he shouldn’t, very kind and lovable, is 15 but looks 19 (father/big brother friend). Sofía, dating Gage, short like me, always wears yellow, blue and red, Colombian, long black hair, has bangs, also very nice 👍🏼(Responseable older sister friend). Rehgan, lonely, bisexual, medium height, biiiggg boobs, thiccc, beautiful💙, funny and truly wonderful(gay friend🏳️‍🌈). Bryce, only one hand, kinda short, forget what ethnicity but brown skin, short black hair, chubby, a little mean sometimes, tried a little hard to be funny, had a crush on me. Ryan, pouch boii, (5,11) decently tall, a little chubbyer, nice, always buying other people food. Hannah, short-ish, kinda sluty but that’s ok, loves Kurt Cobane, emo, smokes weed and drinks, (Party animal friend). Bond, Landen Bond, stoner kid, skateboards, emo, heavy metal, emotional, was dating Hannah but they broke up(stoner friend). And last but definitely not least, Oskar, wet jeans boy👖, I had a big ol crush on this boy, brown eyes, (5,7 or something), brown semi-emo hair, super funny, emo, great person.

All these people are emo, depressed, anxious, and really quite fun to be around. Socialy awkward geeks, I fit right in. We started going to the beach every Tuesday, except Hannah and Landen and Ryan weren’t around most of the summer. The first beach day was one of the best but not really important to the story except for Dany kissing Oskar for a dare (his first kiss), I ,of course, was jealous because I liked him. Around 8pm it was only me, Gage, Dany and Oskar siting at a bench watching the sun go down, it was blinding but beautiful. Dany and Oskar talked while I just kinda sat there and listened because I didn’t have anything to say and I was nervous because I liked Oskar. Later that night I told Dany I liked him and she felt really bad about kissing him. Dany decided to help me make a plan to get Oskar to fall for me. We all hung out every Tuesday. My plan had begun, I was texting with Oskar every single day, two weeks straight. Sitting next to my phone for hours waiting for his response. A little too crazy about him. Trying to figure out everything about him which only made me like him more because he’s just amazing. We got to know each other pretty damn well, my plan was going incredibly well. On the 13th of July, Dany had a mental breakdown and was smashing plates and thinking about suicide, I did what I thought was the only option, go to her, I got on the next buss and tried ever so desperately to get to her before something could go wrong, it was incredibly stressful and for a while I was afraid that I might lose my best friend. I got on the wrong fucking buss, then, when I was in the middle of nowhere, got off the buss and my phone died. I saw a beacon of hope in the distance, a Dairy Queen, I walked for what felt like forever in the scorching heat to this Dairy Queen and thank the lord, I had a phone charger, I texted Dany the second my phone turned on and she and her mom came to rescue me. She was safe and everything was ok. We went to the beach and then I went to her house to have a sleepover and make sure she was ok. At around 10:30pm, Dany and I were watching A Street Cat Named Bob (a wonderful movie, I highly recommend) and I was texting Oskar. It went a little bit like this, “yes” “yep” “indeed” “undoubtedly” “of course Osmar” “of course Violet” “I have a crush on you”. The second I sent the last text I threw my phone across the room and screamed and hugged a pillow. Dany was obviously confused and concerned, I didn’t say anything I just got up and showed her my texts. She was shocked and I threw my phone again and decided that I would wait until the next day to see what he said. I couldn’t sleep, I was so anxious that he would find me revolting and turn me down right away or like someone else. I was also anxious because I knew my friend Rehgan also liked Oskar. When I woke up, it was 6am, I layed there and thought of all the possibilities, every way it could go completely wrong, I could have just waisted two whole weeks getting to know someone that doesn’t even like me that way. 2 hours later, 8am, I go and check my phone and I was very undewelmed. All he said was “Crush as in crush?” Wtf yes crush. An hour or so later I was on the couch while Dany made me food and he texted me saying “I’m awkward as fuck sorry” “it’s ok to be awkward, I am also awkward” “I feel the same way, as in the crush thing” I froze, it was the most insane thing I had ever witnessed. I started shaking and yelling “DANY DANY DANY DANY DANY” I showed her the phone. I was so incredibly excited and happy and terrified. My heart was beating a million miles a minute. “Do you want to hang out today?” That’s where it all began.

[comicteaparty]

July 12th, 2018 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on July 12th, 2018, from 5PM - 7PM PDT.  The chat focused on The Guide to a Healthy Relationship by Dani .

Featured Comment:

Chat:

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

COMIC TEA PARTY START!

Good day everyone~! This week’s Comic Tea Party is now officially beginning~! Today we are discussing The Guide to a Healthy Relationship by Dani~! (https://tapas.io/series/TGtaHR) For those new or in need of a reminder, discussions about the comic are freeform, so please feel free to bring up whatever you wish. However, every 30 minutes I will be dropping in a discussion question to help those who would like a prompt. These questions are totally OPTIONAL to answer, and you can pay them no mind if you wish. If you miss out on any though, they’ll be pinned for the duration of the chat once they’re posted~! Remember, constructive criticism is allowed, but the primary focus here is to have fun and appreciate the amazing comics that the community makes~! As a bonus, each chat a top comment will be picked and featured in the archives and on an ad for CTP! All that being said, let’s get started and have a great discussion!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

snuffysam

i don't know why, but the scene where apollo is asking around and trying to find julian really stuck with me. it's not the most artistically vivid scene (there are quite a few of those), but that one stood out.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

anything particular that made it stand out to you? just asking out of curiosity cause honestly i barely remember that scene just because its not the most artisticially vivid(edited)

snuffysam

i'm not sure. i think apollo realizing he wasn't crazy in seeing julian the other night made me feel, like, emotions.

turnish

Really any scene with Julian that exhibits his psychosis are ones that I particularly like Like, I find it very relatable and the art just perfectly displays what that Actually Feels Like imo

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Hello!

snuffysam

the way the art reflects mental states in general is incredibly well done

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Just wanted to pop in and say hi.

turnish

I agree

snuffysam

hi justin

turnish

Hi!

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

hi justin

yeah i have to agree with turnish that my fave scenes are probably the ones showing julian's mental problems. although i think the one that sticks with me the most is the one where julian is talking to a younger version of himself and his younger version is calling him lazy. i feel like its a great blend of mental illness but kind of normal self esteem issues perhaps. in that he does seem kind of sick yet here his younger self is berating him. @snuffysam thats a fair point. i did feel emotions when it turned out apollo was indeed not crazy. XD

turnish

HH YEAH that was like a punch to the gut

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

If I had to say anything about this comic, it's got a really nice traditional artstyle and all the detail in the characters populating the pages

And some great BG work too

DanitheCarutor

Hello everyone! I'm the creator of 'The Guide to a Healthy Relationship', I'll be helping my ma out with dinner so I won't be on much, but just wanted to pop in to say hi and answer any questions and such whenever possible.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Hi Dani!

snuffysam

hi dani!

turnish

Hi!

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

thanks for coming dani~!

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Great to have ya here~

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

yes. i really like the day of time reflections. particularly i think the way night is portrayed is really spectacular. https://tapas.io/episode/804141 like that page. youve got the light glow effects going on, you have some excellent reflections on the door that really make it look like night. its just all really well done.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Yes

it's all very well done

especially the glow from the sity

snuffysam

the colors and lighting are just incredible

in general

turnish

i reread it today entirely bc my brain is Crap and i don’t remember stuff well but man i agree

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

lol

snuffysam

yeah i probably should have done that lol

turnish

The night is still young

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

indeed

I wonder how you do sunsets cause I have a soft spot for epic sunsets

turnish

tbh big same

snuffysam

I like how the colors are shaded with completely different colors most of the time (e.g. a blue shirt has orange shading). that's super cool to me. something that very few artists do.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Same

Colored shading alone is awesome when done right

turnish

color theory is so important

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

and it also brings out the colors themselves

snuffysam

it also helps capture that feel of night time. which is when most of this story takes place.

turnish

yeah! agreed

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

This is a cool looking comic all around

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

yeah there are really just great color choices all around. i especially like the contrasts. cause one of my biggest issues with traditionally colored comics is theres not usually enough contrasts. so everything kind of winds up looking muted and its hard to tell things apart from one another. but i feel this comic doesnt have that problem at all

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

and all in traditional too!

and I second that

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

I made it. ^^ I'm inclined towards the Julian scenes too, though I actually liked the scene where he was doing his janitor stuff and tidying up, making things sparkling. In retrospect, it was nice to see him (seemingly) taking pride in something.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Hey Math!

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Also, I'm very impressed by going the traditional route with such a blend of colours.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

QUESTION 2. Given he was supposed to be dead, Julian’s appearance in Apollo’s life opens up many questions. First off, do you believe this is indeed Julian, or do you have reason to doubt this claim? What do you think Julian meant by telling Apollo that, “his friend is dead?” Was it just a way to get Apollo to leave, or is there a deeper meaning? Where do you think Julian has been all this time? Throughout, we also see that Julian has both physical and implied mental health problems. Do you believe this has something to do with his appearance? Do you think Julian dealt with these problems all his life or are they a new development? Lastly, where do you think Julian came from considering Apollo relays they pretty much found him in a bag?

DanitheCarutor

Ah! Thank you all! Seeing the positive reactions to Julian's mentally ill scenes is really encouraging. I've been doing a lot of research on the subject since I've never experienced it myself, and it's tough to know when it's being done well. Also I feel so bad for having Julian ruin that emotional scene with Apollo, slamming the door in his face was kind of a mood killer. Lol. @Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨ A sunset scene is going to be coming up in a couple pages, so we'll all see how that turns out. xD I've never drawn a sunset before.

DanitheCarutor

Sorry! I type a lot, and I type slow.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

SUNSET SCENE CONFORMED

and that's alright!

snuffysam

I think Julian metaphorically died when... something happened to him. Don't know what.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

I think there's a deeper meaning in that the person he was doesn't exist any more. Though honestly, I'm not sure they were as good of friends as Apollo thinks; Julian seemed to keep to himself even then.

snuffysam

Julian was a nice person to Apollo, but I'm not sure if he ever really liked him.

turnish

when reading “your friend is dead” I chose to interpret that as the Julian Apollo once knew no longer exists, and Julian considers himself a different person now. or he’s running away from his past

i think i made the same point as math whoops

snuffysam

in terms of where he came from, i'd imagine russia, because he only spoke russian

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

It may be worth saying that, as a 40 year old teacher, I don't think I'm the demographic for this comic. Every time I see Apollo I kind of want to get in his face and shout "shape up man!". If he was as oblivious now as he was in the past, I kind of get why Julian would want to move on from his old life.

snuffysam

yeah honestly i get why julian wouldn't be too psyched about seeing apollo again. he's kind of a difficult person to have in your life.

especially if you have your own mental health problems to deal with

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i feel apollo is a bit self involved and just wouldnt notice julian's suffering. so while julian was there to care for apollo, apollo wouldnt notice when someone needed to care for julian persay

snuffysam

i second that

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

I think Julian saying something to the effect of "I don't have what you need" kind of emphasizes that.

That time Apollo jumped out of the bushes.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Lol, Prince

I lost it when you brought up "shape up man!"

snuffysam

i wouldn't want to go back to that kind of one-sided relationship either tbh

DanitheCarutor

Aw man, those are really good questions, with some really good answers! I won't confirm much because I like things being left open for interpretation, but Apollo is 100% a moron. Also I don't mind throwing it out that he's a homeschool kid, so no social skills.

turnish

I love a moronic boy

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

tbf i could also see the hes dead mean something deeper. like maybe julian was in an accident and lost part of his memories. like all the good memories of apollo and just remembers the shitty times.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Also "Get off my lawn". (Your drunk ass is scaring the squirrels.)

snuffysam

that's awfully convenient re: losing all positive memories of someone

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Interesting, so I guess Julian was homeschooled too? Since they grew up together?

(Also, for a moment I read that as "Apollo is 100% a mormon" and I did a double take.)

snuffysam

yeah that doesn't exactly fit with most of the stuff he's done lol

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Rebel: Maybe? I kind of feel like Julian might have faked his death to get away from creditors and people who just generally were treating him lousy though. But maybe things didn't go as planned.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Perhaps

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

What's kind of interesting is how Apollo has problems too, with his eyesight, so you'd think he'd be able to empathize a bit with Julian having his own issues. But it does seem like he doesn't have much experience with that.

snuffysam

empathy and sympathy both seem to be problems for apollo

DanitheCarutor

Math: Lmao! Oh no, not a mormon! But for the homeschool question, nah. Julian is a public school kid, they hung out almost 24/7 but they grew up in different environments with Julian staying in an orphanage and Apollo living in a fancy house.

snuffysam

especially when it comes to julian

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Ahhh, interesting. I think I misunderstood and thought he'd been adopted like a brother. That adds an interesting element of class to things too.

Apollo is very much "live in the moment". I would not want him doing my tax returns.

snuffysam

the fancy homeschool tutors may have neglected to teach him, like, responsibility

going back to what rebel said - were there any positive memories of apollo julian had to begin with?

like, even apollo's recap at the beginning paints himself in a bad light

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

probably. homeschool can be pretty lax from what i hear. so apollo's education in general might have sucked.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Maybe they went sledding together.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

and yeah its possible that julian doesnt have positive memories

albeit there must of been a reason julian chose to ahng out with apollo

snuffysam

though that may have something to do with apollo's mental state making himself out to be worse than he was

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

and why julian didnt make an effort to move farther away

cause if i didnt want someone to find me i would not be living in driving distance of them

snuffysam

maybe he couldn't move further. relocating is hard

especially if you don't have financial means

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

true but he has had something like 5 years to make arrangements. i think 5 years. its years at least. but it really all depends where he was. it could be that hes been in the hospital or something

or a mental hospital

DanitheCarutor

Misunderstandings is totally understandable, a lot of stuff in the comic is very vague right now, and some of it will only be shown in snippets. I can't say much, but Julian does have some positive memories, there's just not many and it's harder to focus on the good over the bad.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Yea

DanitheCarutor

Also as a homeschool student myself, the education does suck. I pretty much cheated my way through middle school because my teacher was a Christian booklet.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Oh really?

That's... interesting

DanitheCarutor

Oo! Since this isn't super important, Julian and Apollo actually grew up in Ohio in a town based of Newark. When Apollo "grew up" he moved to a city in California based of a mix of San Diego and LA.

snuffysam

is it possible julian faked his own death specifically to get rid of apollo for a while? like, he didn't have the capacity to take care of him anymore, so he just cut him out of his life.

lol "grew up" in quotes

so yeah, julian may not have known where apollo was, and didn't intend to be in the same city as him

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

man now thats got to be the shittiest coincidence

julian is like "im free from apollo oh shit wait theres apollo"

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

No kidding

snuffysam

yeah, but looking at julian's reaction - he clearly did not intend to run into apollo any time soon

DanitheCarutor

"and Julian's evening was ruined" -ugly cry-

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i wonder if apollo just didnt even know how julian "died." like one day whoever took care of julian was just like "nah man he dead" and apollo just made a goofy face and accepted it

QUESTION 3. Despite most definitely being adult, protagonist Apollo is a little bit immature. Why do you believe Apollo is so irresponsible? Is it just his personality, or are his habits a way to avoid certain aspects of his life? Do you think his ocular albinism plays a role in why he acts the way he does? Do you think it will be good for Apollo to reconnect with Julian, or will the events of the past send Apollo into a downward spiral? What do you think Daniel’s role will be in Apollo’s life? Lastly, what do you think it will take for Apollo to get his life together a bit more?

snuffysam

if his ocular albinism plays into his irresponsibility, it's only as an excuse. "well, i can't see normally. better get sloshed!"

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

(Sorry, sometimes I have to dash off if the little one is crying.) Oh, being away in a mental hospital would be an interesting development.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

^

snuffysam

i think apollo just has serious issues with self control. he started out with alcohol and drugs to get away from some aspects of his life, and then it just got worse from there.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Snuffy: I don't know about that. If he's sensitive to daylight, it makes sense that he'd be out and about at night, which is when the parties happen.

snuffysam

true, that may be a source of some temptation. but if he was healthier, that wouldn't be a problem.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

But yeah, agree about the self control thing. Guy doesn't know when to say "no". Also doesn't seem to know a good thing when he has it.

Fair. I don't think he eats from the proper food groups.

snuffysam

i meant mentally but yes

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Can't help you feel active.

Like, if you're always eating junk food I mean.

Ahh, gotcha.

snuffysam

he doesn't have much of a support channel to help him with his issues, and a lot of the people who do try and help him out don't like him very much because of the whole personality thing

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i think the ocular albinism does play a role. cause as someone who is awake all night, there is nothing to do outside. like the options are go to dennys, go to waffle house, go to walmart, or go to a bar. so i think it more than increases the temptation for apollo. it hampers a lot of paths to recovery.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Is it cool to bring up Daniel? Because he's such an interesting counterpoint.

I cannot see Apollo as a greeter at Wal-Mart.

snuffysam

his boss puts up with so much from apollo, it's a wonder she hasn't fired him

DanitheCarutor

Math: Sure! He's going to be in the comic a lot more from this chapter on.

Apollo really does have control issues, it'll come up why later but he's never had an issue with getting whatever he wanted as a kid.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Oh cool~

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

they dont have greeters at night. in fact i think the greeters all leave before 8pm at the latest

yeah apollo's boss deserves a boss of the year award

cause man

i wouldve fired apollo 10 billion years ago

turnish

Ahhh Apollo’s boss deserves the most

snuffysam

and his other coworkers too. who was the woman he asked for help and then called a slur? galia?

DanitheCarutor

Rebel: Yeah, being awake at night sucks. I used to be a night owl, waking up at noon and staying up till 4am. There isn't anything to do, at least anything that's a good idea.

Yup, that's her name! Poor Galia, she's only been in the comic a couple times so far and it sucked for her.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

I'm hoping Daniel can get through to Apollo. Challenge him without going so far as putting him off.

turnish

Same here Math

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i feel at the very least daniel will openly pull up his flaws in a way others dont. cause the others say it with anger and derision and lots of ppl just flat out tune out criticism at that point. where as i feel daniel would be the one whod be like "hey apollo maybe you should clean up your place some?"

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Or maybe Apollo will just want to, so that his date doesn't get a bad impression.

Cuz the Apollo/Daniel ship is sailing.

turnish

heh

snuffysam

yeah, i think that's going to be one of the major themes coming up. trying to reconnect with julian isn't healthy - julian doesn't want anything to do with apollo, and he has his own physical and mental issues to deal with without taking care of apollo. meanwhile daniel will push apollo (either wittingly through calling him out, unwittingly through apollo wanting to get better for him, or both) to get healthier and turn his life around

whether apollo goes into a downward spiral or begins recovery depends on which path he chooses

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

It's a good point though, Rebel, about how to get across criticism.

I wonder if maybe Daniel starting to spiral down would help shock Apollo to his senses?

snuffysam

in that, apollo drags down everyone around him with his toxicity?

could happen, but i hope not. i like daniel.

DanitheCarutor

Oh man, I'm loving the Daniel discussion! He'll definitely be challenging Apollo in one way or another.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Maybe Daniel starting to date Julian will shock Apollo to his senses.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i believe in daniel to be self confident enough to fall down apollo's hole. but on the opposite turn i do think julian will be important for apollo cause i think only julian can point out some of apollo's flaws from the past and give apollo pause. tho im not quite sure how outside of giving apollo more clarity of the things julian is dealing with

snuffysam

daniel can even use the perfect pickup line that he's been saving for such an occasion

"i like my men like i like my alcohol - russian, and found in a bag"

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

11/10

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Okay, you win with that one.

snuffysam

julian can point out problems that apollo has had since childhood, but question is, will he want to?

or will he just want to keep apollo out of his life?

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Back on the question of why Apollo is so irresponsible, I think it comes from his position of privilege. His parents probably made sure that he never suffered real consequences from his actions.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

i feel julian wont succeed in keeping apollo out of his life because 1) apollo is apollo and 2) julian's young ghost self is telling him to not be lazy and i think julian will give in to that for a while

snuffysam

yeah it absolutely stems from that

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

A restraining order might be needed to keep Apollo out of his life. ^^

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

and yeah i agree with math, i think apollo has no real concept of consequences

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Napples agrees too.

snuffysam

where are apollo's parents anyway? do they know what's happened to their son's life?

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Do they care?

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

they might not care? or they might not know. cause apollo does not seem the type to call home frequently and i doubt their once in a blue moon phone calls consist of apollo saying "yeah i got wasted every night this week"

cause consequence conscious or not thats just not a thing i think any kid would talk to his parents about XD

QUESTION 4. The comic’s title, “The Guide to a Healthy Relationship,” seems rather revealing of the story at hand. What does the title mean to you exactly? How do you think the story will live up to that title? Furthermore, the three chapter titles (“Hypomania,” “Monophobia,” and “Psychosis”) all share a theme of mental issues. Does this change how you interpret the title at all or how you interpret the story itself (whether the entire story or a specific chapter’s content)? What role do you think these titles play in regards to the mental illnesses we’ve seen in the story so far? Finally, do you feel the story is about relationships with others, relationships with ourselves, both, or something else entirely?

snuffysam

yeah there's a reason i've been referring to things as healthy and unhealthy all night lol

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

for me personally i feel the title is both about relationships with others and with ourselves. tho i lean more towards the latter if i had to pick one. because of how apollo treats his own self.

snuffysam

yeah, having a healthy relationship with yourself seems like a big theme

i also think the unhealthy relationship apollo had with julian growing up will keep coming back

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Wow, I hadn't even picked up on the chapter titles. Hmm, I guess at first my mind went to romantic relationships, but yeah it makes sense to be more friends and such.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

lol

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

"Guide to a Healthy Relationship - Don't act like Apollo."

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

thats the real lesson we should take away from this

dont be an apollo

be the best daniel you can be

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

I gotta wonder a bit about Apollo's circle of friends too. They seem like real enablers, I wonder if they have day jobs.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

probably. despite their party habits more of them seem to have their crap together perhaps.

tbf tho i think apollo is equally an enabler. so i think its just a circle of friends who see nothing wrong, enable each other, and spiral down and down

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

There is that, yeah.

snuffysam

do they know how bad apollo's life is? or do they just think he's that wild guy who likes to drink on the weekends?

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Speaking of spiralling down, that one panel with the pill on the tongue was cleverly done. Just wanted to get that out there.

I think they believe Apollo's got an amazing life. Bartender with access to free drinks, his own place without a roommate to bug him, the ability to afford random merchandise for thousands of dollars... what's not to like?

snuffysam

true

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

thirded

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

If anything, the search for Julian might be helping to pull Apollo away from the bad influences.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

math has a point

cant be out drinking when youre haunting a school at night

looking for ghost friends

maybe apollo will be like "wow so this is what being sober is like"

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

"I can walk without running into trees. My friends, however..."

snuffysam

though nothing stopping you from drinking before starting the search

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

maybe julian will say something

like "please dont come here reeking of alcohol"

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Julian just needs to keep throwing water into Apollo's face. Like that first time.

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

Yeah

Try it like eight more times

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Though the fact that he did reach out there implies that at least part of him doesn't like seeing Apollo down on his luck, perhaps?

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

yeah i dont think julian hates apollo persay. i think hes just tired of dealing with apollo

cause ive dealt with ppl like that

where you dont hate them

but man do you have your own shit going on and theres only so many hours in the day

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Truth.

"And now I have to mop the floor AGAIN, geeeez."

snuffysam

yeah, that's the thing, i think julian does care about apollo, but their relationship is so one-sided that it isn't worth it

DanitheCarutor

The answers about the tirle, and this discussion is soooo gooood! I didn't think anyone would pay that any mind. -sobs- I wish I could spill the beans, some of you guys had some really spot on theories.

turnish

Sorry I’m hella cleaning so I couldn’t participate as much as I wanted to,,rip

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Apollo knows not of this "cleaning".

snuffysam

yeah didn't you learn from the story, turnish? you have to live your life like apollo! that's the moral!

turnish

Dang ur right I should become a slob

shixjdj

Superjustingo of ✨Time🕑&Space☄✨

kek

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Don't lose your glasses though. That's a bad plan.

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, man. Just throw it all on the floor, the nanny will take care of it. Everyone's got one of those, right?

turnish

Man I Wish

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

yeah i store my nanny in my closet when not in use

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Hm, this sequel to Mary Poppins took a NSFW turn...

DanitheCarutor

Ah, I'd suggest storing them in a jar. It's more cost effective.

MathTans the Pun 👑Prince👑

Anyway, last remark from me, again impressed by the use of colours and drive to experiment with some different perspectives and the like at times.

✨🐱 RebelVampire 🐱✨

COMIC TEA PARTY END!

Unfortunately, the scheduled Comic Tea Party time is now up~! Thank you everyone so much for reading and joining this week’s chat~! We want to give a special thank you to Dani, as well, for making The Guide to a Healthy Relationship and volunteering it for our reading queue. If you liked the comic, please be sure to support Dani’s efforts however you’re able to. All that being said, if you would like to continue discussing this week’s comic, we highly encourage you to do so~!

For next week, Comic Tea Party will focus on Wednesday7 by Viki Kuli. As always, please use the next several days to read as much of the comic as you would like. We hope to see you next Thursday on July 19th from 5PM to 7PM PDT for the chat~! Until then, happy reading~! Comic: https://tapas.io/series/Wednesday7%20