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aspiestvmusings · 4 years

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ZEP ANALYSIS

POSSIBLE SPOILERS for “ZOEY’S EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST” (NBC)

This is my take on the shows storylines (episode 1-8), spoilers (for rest of s1), comments from the creators and cast...

This was originally inspired by many online comments from TeamMax vs Team Simon. I just wanted to analyze the show based on that.

My take on the storyline: “The Love Triangle”

Good news for one team, perhaps not so good for the other team.

Based on everything we’ve seen on the show (the storytelling, the promotional materials, the spoilers)... everything points to Max/Zoey being the endgame. I’ve seen many fans (both those who support Team M & those who support Team S), say that they get the same message from the storytelling. It does seem to be the clear message from the show...no matter how they get there..or when...

The “proof”:

First: The actor who portrayes Max is billed higher (probably mostly cause he’s done more well-known musical projects before than the other actor), and he’s featured in much more promotional materials (promo pics, posters, promo videos...) and in more central role, than the other actor. The promotion is vastly focused on M/Z. They use those characters & actors... a lot...for promotion. That suggests only one thing.

Second: They told us the premise of Zoey’s future relationships in the Pilot already via this Max/Zoey conversation:

Zoey: I have a long history of --- what do you call my past relationships again? --

Max: -- “Unnecessarily complicated, exhausting for everybody, the opposite of good”?

Zoey: Yeah. Those things. Which is why this time I'm just gonna take things slow, and wait for the right “in”

And with Zoey/Simon thing has been just a repeat of her past experiences which she claims she doesn’t want to re-live again, and this show is all about her growth as a character/person, this cannot be the endgame. Even if they’d reveal that S/J have broken up... all that’s already happened has followed this exact description (see Max’s quote)

Third: While Zoey sang her heart song to Max and they had a moment for themselves (though..let’s be honest...they get interrupted so much that others in the office must’ve overheard a lot by now...), the heartsong to Simon seemed to be more like a setup for having Max see it. And while both songs are about her deepest, secret feelings/desires... and there’s truth in both, then the way the scenes were set up makes it seem like she sang to her best friend to make him aware of how she really feels (what he said in the previous ep: he needs to know/get a respose from her...and this gave him that). But the other song was meant to be overheard by her best friend...and that was the goal of the song/scene (not the song itself, but that he saw). Again pointing to the show going for Max as the endgame.

Fourth: The triangle is as follows: Both Max & Simon like Zoey, but she only really likes one of them. Both men sang heart songs to her (Max = I think I love you, Sucker, If I can’t have you, 500 miles), and she sang to both...but different songs. Simon sang “If you say that you are mine, I'll be here 'til the end of time” in 1x05, so it’s coming from his side. Zoey in 1x08 sang "I'm Yours” to Max (that her heart is his), but she sang “I want you to want me” to Simon (not that she wants him, but she wants him to want her). As her best friend explained it - one is about love, the other physical attraction. But... if you listen to the lyrics more closely then based on them she’s singing about how she saw S. crying & all alone (1x01) and how that affected her, compared to singing to M. how she’s “caught feelings”. So she’s only actually interested in Max, as her feelings for Simon are not mutual (beyond the grief bond). One is one-sided and more “superficial”, the other is mutual and more “serious”.

Fifth: While we’ve seen that Zoey thinks she’s caught feelings for Simon (what she told her mom at the engagement party), and she hasn’t really admitted this to anyone besides her mom, she seems to not see it as a good thing. She also claims to both Max & Simon that she doesn’t really have feelings for Simon/wasn’t aware of her feelings and/or that she’s basically over it... so kinda “little white lies”. She seems to think they have a sort of connection and/or she seems to find him attractive...despite realizing that it cannot happen because he’s engaged. (and before Simon went and took the wrong step, he said the right thing - they leaned too much on each other about their grief, and they should just go back to co-workers, and that’s all. Sadly...that was changed because of the “glitch” that mislead...people). But... we also saw that she is fighting against having feelings for the morally questionable engaged man, cause she probably realizes it’s a bad idea.

Sixth: All this time, but especially in the last episode, the show has tried to show the two men in her life differently, and show the differences in their “relationships” with Zoey. It’s a very classic “fairytale story” that follows often-used “clichees”. They’ve shown how the two are different, and how the connection between both “ships” is different. And everything points to them starting to make the difference even more clear. By now they all are aware of each others feelings...to some point... and both men are aware that they’re both competing for her interest.

And she’s aware that she is interested in both... but in different ways, and for different reasons. And again they used Max to vocalize the choice before her - will she choose physical attraction without deeper connection or love and deeper emotional connection...AKA “new attractive co-worker who went through what shes going through VS her best friend, who is always there for her...no matter what. The options were made clear, now it’s her decision. And it’ll depend a lot on how each man will act from now on...at the most difficult time in her life (she’s now really going to lose her dad).

If Simon will try to make advances based on the heart song she sang, which gave outmixed signals AND at the same time Max will continue being a good friend (as we saw in 1x08...despite their dispute) then that’ll make Z/S grow furher apart and Z/M grow closer. And since it’s all become too complicated and messy for everyone... then it’s very possible all this will get to Jessica, and break those two apart. But... that’s IMO gonna be the opposite from making the path clear for S/Z. To have Simon as a character grow they need to have him deal with his grief, and all that. The Simon vs Max thing is a lot like Leif/Tobin thing... where the peer reviews made one become sketchy and start playing games, and the other start working on bettering themselves. I expect similar differences of paths taken for S & M. Especially because we’ve not only seen Tobin 2.0, but also Max 2.0 (and we’ll see more of that..in coming eps)

Seventh: We ve heard spoilers than in the S1 finale there will be a “heart song” for/from/with one of the two and Zoey. From how the scene is decribed it sound more like something fitting to Max (Max/Zoey). Which fits with how the season and story has been built so far. That seems to also confirm where they’re taking it. Cause...they’ve established that just like on most shows the main character HAS TO have a love interest, and so far they’ve only introduced two options.

Other reasons why Zoey will most likely choose “love” over “physical attraction”:

We saw Zoey’s reaction when she found out that S. had a SO/was engaged - she ran. And though she might find him attractive (physically)...as she found out via her heart song in 1x08, and she might feel a connection to him (because of the heart song she heard him sing in 1x01), she hasn’t shown interest in actually being with him... because she knows he’s taken. And also because she’s not really in the right place to start a relationship. She/They may not realize it, but they don’t have much more in common than grief - that’s the center of their bond (for now). Despite her interest/attraction to him & her thinking she “likes” him...

This is also why it’s easier for her to admit she has/had feelings for Simon, but she’s having trouble admitting...to herself (and Mo) & to Max that she may have feelings for her best friend. There’s nothing to lose with the first, but a lot to lose with the second. She’s afraid (and she varbalized it at the end of 1x07) that something could not go well... etc

While Max was not at all ready to meet his dates (Autumn) parents, because it’s a huge step and he just wan’t ready for it, he has met his best friends parents, and is welcome at their home. And there’s no feelings of meeting the parents being such “next level step”. We saw this when he brough her dad pudding to eat & when he helped carry the bed downstairs. It was also mentioned that he’s been part of the extended family for a while - welcome to family events (Christmas, barbeques..). Zoey’s father - the most important person in her life until now - is definitely on the man’s side, who brings him pudding (cause he’s paid attention that he can only eat soft food) and visits him & helps out. And her dad’s opinion is very important to Zoey, so...

She is completely at easy with Max seeing her with a facemask on, eating take-out, alone, at home, but she hides it (the true self) from Simon. She wears “a mask” with Simon, but doesn’t with Max. Same with how she didn’t tell Simon about her dad in 1x08 (brushing it off: hospital = lollipop), while telling Max that her dad had an apointment that morning. And though it did take her time to find the courage to tell him about it all in detail, she did..in the end. But from the start she shared the main info even if she didn’t tell what exactly happened and how she feels about it. She didn’t completely brush it off with him...even if the news made her unable to process and share it...right away.

We saw how she resisted her personal heart songs to Leif/Joan & to Simon, while being completely at ease with singing them to her best friend (Max) and her dad (Mitch). Cause if we leave out the big dance numbers (Crazy, Pressure), then she tried stopping herself from singing the others...the personal songs... and/or apologized for what’s to come...with Simon, too. But with Max (and her dad) the song just came to her...without the need to apologize or resist it. And afterwards she just tried to claim it didn’t mean as much, because she’s just in denial (and not really ready to start a relationship...because right now she is going through stages of grief). There’s a huge difference in both the heart songs she sang & HOW she sang them.

And we’ve seen that she really appreciates him as a friend, and as she told him - she can’t lose him as a friend...she needs him in her life. She cares about his feelings. She is afraid she gave him the wrong impression, she runs after him to explain things to him, because she knows that he got hurt. She actually cares about him...and is feelings (as a friend). And they’ve not shown the same reaction with Simon. And though the friends to one-sided to more-than-friends trope is “an overused clichee”, it isn’t necessarily bad. It can work well. Examples: Mondler on Friends, Peraltiago on B99...

Max may have the advantage of having known her longer, and knowing her better (because they’ve been friends for 5 years), and hence she’s more comfortable around him. And...that’s the reason why she let him in on her superpower secret, and why she tells him about...things. But... that’s precisely why she should and will choose Max over Simon. (He’s been there for her...always...and he continues to be there for her...through this hard time in her life.)

We saw how even though he was upset with her (for keeping secrets from him, from setting him up with someone else when she knew about his feelings for her...just because she didn’t dare to be honest with him & communicate...and hearing her sing to another person, too...) he was still there for her. A shoulder to lean on...literally and figuratively. He came to her rescue when she put her job at risk (singing Pressure), he gave her her mom’s message and supportive advice regarding her dad... And though there’s a hint of competitiveness that he seems to feel after the 1x07 elevator end scene (where we saw that both men seem to think they’ll be the end choice), and him wanting some kind of response from her, the 1x07 end scene and other moments have shown us that he’s willing to wait til she’s ready.

Especially...since in 1x07 he felt like it’s unfair that she can see into his heart and knows how he feels about her, he doesn’t. But in 1x08 he got to see into her heart (because even though she’d promised to always be honest with him from now on... she wasn’t fully... for a bit... and the “glitch” made her break her promise...til the evening), and it’s more “fair”. He now isn’t as in the dark, and less uncertain. I think the glitch was good for him, because he now knows how she really feels. All he wanted was an honest answer. And though it’s undertandable that he’s a bit hurt by what he’s heard & seen lately... but in the end it was beneficial. As Mo put it... he deserves an answer...no matter what it is...

I get the feeling that by now Zoey’s actually aware that she has feelings for her best friend. She might’ve not been aware of it all until he sang the first heart song to her, but after that we’ve clearly seen that she has either started to realize she actually has feelings for him or that she’s started to have feelings for him. She showed signs of jealousy when he was with Autumn (seeing them talking at the coffee shop, dancing at the club...). She couldn’t stop staring at him when she walked in during the Mo’ Makeover...indicating clearly that she finds him also physically attractive. Not to mention the emotional connection, and friendship. All the looks she gives him, her song & dance during “I’m Yours”... all for him...

And she cares about his feelings & not hurting him (running after him when he sees her heart song to Simon...) The look she has, when he brings her dad pudding & when she sees him with her dad or when she hears him sing “500 miles”, or the looks and giggles when she sings her heart song to him.... While she’s in no place in a relationship at this time, I think she’s realized that despite her grief and emotional state she’s developing feelings for her best friend. And that... just like what’s going on with her dad, seems to scare her.

MY PERSONAL TAKE/THOUGHTS:

As human as her feelings for Simon are (you can’t control who you find attractive...), and as much as this can happen IRL then Zoey/Simon is a no-no... simply because of his relationship status. Cheating storylines are not cool. Hence I cannot stand behind that “ship” or the possibility of accepting them as a viable possibility. IF he didnt have a fiancee, he’d be a candidate, but that’s not the case...he has a SO. Hence Team Simon cannot even be an option. No matter how much they try to promote it all as a love triangle & no matter how much they make Simon make bad decisions and wrong moves (going to her place & talking to her about his feelings, kissing her) seem “nothing serious”.... it’s wrong. It’s just as her best friend decribed it in 1x08. If things were different, yeah, but we’re not talking hypotheticals.

So IMO there’s one clearly wrong choice netween these two. I mean... I would not care if they would have her stay single, or develop new interest (Tobin)...as long as it’s not “morally questionable”. Z/S would be like Joan/Leif... sketchy, and wrong. And hopefully having seen those two helps Zoey understand that.... see the parallels (she has a hint that one is playing the other)

As for “Max is being too pushy”... here’s how that goes: he’s been in love with his best friend...for some time...and not said a thing. She accidentally finds out after she gets her superpower. And all the while his feelings seem to grow deeper. And now that she’s aware of his feelings, it seems she’s become more aware of her own (similar) feelings and/or she’s developed them. And sure...after his peer reviews (that “he doesn’t show initiative”) & seeing that his best friend is interested in someone else...who would be just another “not good option” similar to her past bad relationship decisions, ...and after getting mixed signals from her, he made more direct steps.

He sang her his heart songs, but he didnt push her (no, “Hand picked” is not like a date, just “are you free to go and eat”). She only felt pushed because she could “read his mind”. Also... he didn’t sing to her while being in a relationship with someone else...he kept his distance. And at the same time she seems to have become more and more aware about her feelings for him, and she was giving him “wrong signals”. His response - the flash mob was a response to that. And he was just upset that she ran...without any real response (not interested, can’t right now...cause I’m too occupied with dad thing). All he wanted was some sort of respose, and he told her so. She avoided telling him how she really feels (as Mo put it... he’ll understand if you say you don’t know, but you owe your friend an answer)...delaying it...as long as she could.

Also... any rational person would be confused about hearing that someone has superpowers. Again...she avoided giving him an explanation, instead telling him “fairytales of superpowers”. And in the end he was okay with her answer - that she can’t give him an answer at the moment. Even though he was upset, we saw he was still gonna be her friend (even if keeping some distrance, and not doing the movie nights), and that he was sure that one day she’ll be ready (the 1x07 elevator end scene, where both men think she’ll choose them...in the end..when she’s ready)

And in the latest episode we saw that no matter how hurt his feelings were, he did not stop being her friend. As he said “he’ll be there...always...and be the shoulder to lean on”. And you could tell that a huge weight was lifted off his shoulder when he knew her real feelings. When she did what she promised in last episode...be 100% honest with him. Sure... it only happened because of the glitch, when she sang him the heart song, but nonetheless it made things more equal. As he said - it’s unfair that she knows how he feels & can see into his heart but he cannot see into hers. The glitch changed that. Gave him the opportunity to get the answers she “owed him”

So... it’s undertandable that he felt hurt and confused when he saw her sing a heart song to someone else... right after finally giving him some answers. But...during he same conversation he processed it all, and also explained it to her - one song about love, the other about attraction. And he didn’t say “choose me”, he just explained the meanings to her (cause it was obvious she didn’t understand it herself), and told what his choice would be, while saying that he knows she’ll make her decision on her own....cause that ’s what she’s like.

As a friend he doesn’t want her to make the same mistakes she has in the past..hence him being “upset” with her. Cause to him it looks like she wasn’t completely honest (something she promised to be) with him - singing her heart feelings to him, and then to someone else. Claiming that she can’t lose him as a friend and that’s why she’s not ready to try being more than friends, when to an outsider it looks like the real reason is, as he put it - cause she’s confused about her feelings... for two people. All she’d have to tell him...from start... would just be honest and simply just say (more clearly) that she has to focus on her family & dad at this time, and ask for time. She kinda did at the end of 1x07, but because she’s not good with emotions and feelings...and she delayed her answer, she didn’t really let him in...and be the friend she needs at the time, it wasnt as clear as it could’ve been.

So far all his “pushy” behaviour can be seen as being a good friend - he’s trying to help her not start another overly complicated relationship...which she told him (in Pilot) is not what she wants anymore. He points out to her why Simon is not a good option - he’s taken. Yes, part of his “pushiness” seems to come from trying to be less what his peer reviews decribed him like & competitiveness (knowing Simon is kinda his competition). But from his POV... (before she told him about her superpowers& sang him her heart song)... she’d been shown more interest in him (checking him out, giving mixed signals) & at the same time he’s in a bit of hurry because if he doesn’t act soon she may make a move on the new guy/the new guy may make a move on her. So it makes sense that with all of that happening at the same time he seems...to some... to "push” her towards being more than friends... Cause unconciously he may realize that if he doesn’t make a move ...now... he may be too late.

And though it all... he’s still there for her. He might be “mad at her... just a bit”, but he still goes to check on her, still gives her advice, and space... after he knows what’s really going on. (he “pushes” her to confont her feelings about her dad, and deal with it instead of running). He’s not looking for something in return. We saw that over and over in several episodes. He verbalized it in 1x06, and his face/look told it in the end of 1x07 elevator scene.

Also... “Mr Nice Guy” is better than “Mr. Cheater”...any day... in my book. And it surprises me that there are those who think that “nice guy who goes after his best friend” is worse option & worse clichee than the “hot new guy, who is willing to cheat”. For me one is clearly wrong behaviour the other just depends on your preferences.

To quote Mo : Max is funny, and funny always wins. Hence... being Team Max.

So... while up until things got overly complicated, both men could’ve been options, by now the show (writing etc) has made it pretty clear that they’re going for Z/M endgame.

Though the showrunner/writers at times love to focus on the “love triangle” (I still don’t see it in the writing...I only hear it being described so by the showrunner etc), and how they want to continue with that...for a while... which makes it seem a bit like they’re seriously pro “cheating plots” and “human feelings are messy...hence we let the main character continue making bad choices” because “we love the love- triangle drama”, there’s still more evidence in them not really taking it further than the kiss. But yeah... at times the showrunners comments make it sound like he thinks more like the HIMYM creator did and less like Dawson’s Creek creator did. Too fixed in loving the “triangle drama” & not going for character growth... But... I truly hope that all that has just been misleading...and the storytelling is what tells us how it goes.

They already let Simon make a bad move - the kiss. That should be the line over the line that they won’t cross again. He may continue pursuing her by singing songs to her, because he read her heartsong in the wrong way (because he doesn’t know why she did it, and what’s behind it), but if they follow the character growth path, and their current direction... they won’t let him/her go into the “cheating plot” territory again.

My “advice” to Zoey & Simon:

IF I could talk to these fictional characters, then the advice I would have given them...weeks/months ago would have been: just talk to your family & friends...the important people in your life. That’s Jessica for Simon, and Max (Mo, her mom...) for Zoey. Luckily we finally saw Zoey do that in the latest episode. So far we haven’t seen her really share the specific details on her dads health & her feelings regarding it all, with him. She hasn’t really confonted her feelings about it...til now or really confided in anyone in her family...etc... until now/finally. But Simon doesn’t seem to be doing so (he kept it all inside for a long time...until he had a chance to talk to a stranger, Zoey), and even though he made a point to not talk to her about it all, there has been no indication that after the “smoked roses” incident he’s confided in the person he should, Jessica.

Because... it doesn’t take a shared experience to get the support you need. The other person doesn’t have to have lived through the same/doesn’t have to know what it feels like in person to be the right person to lean on. And that was beautifully showcased at the end of ep 1x08, when Max, after he had been told about her dad’s condition, and her feelings regarding it, was the emotional support she needed. It just takes one person - somone who knows you best/well... to help you nagivate your “grief”.

To elaborate: That moment, when she finally was completely honest with Max, and let him in on her dad’s situation, was very important. It was the step to right direction. It also showed Zoey & us that it doesnt take a person who has experienced the same to understand her, support her. It just takes one person, who knows you & is there for you no matter what. And we shan’t forget that since Max was also close with Mitch, he will be personally affected by her dad’s death. So a shared experience... shared grief. Max being “in” on the details means that they’ll lean on each other more on this (so less need fo Zoey to connect about grief with Simon...who doesn’t have a connection with her dad & who doesn’t really know her). It was a crucial moment: Zoey finally not running from it all & properly starting grieving (going through the stages). And she finally let someone really in (something Simon can’t/won’t do with his fiancee... both cause she doesn’t understand him & his not willing to let her in), so this will make their friendship stronger going forward. Meaning: she doesn’t need Simon fro grief bond - she can get that support from Max, too.

And they really need to explore Simon’s character...and let him grow. Based on spoilers we know that were gonna get (finally) some more development and closer look into Max. But they need to look into S. (Is it just the grief? Is is something...more...)

wow ..this turned out way longer than I expected and planned.

Also... no ship wars comments, please. Even though I stated why I prefer one of the options the show has introduced that does not mean this is an invite to start discussion which is better. This is not the purpose of this post. You’re allowed to have your preference. For me there simply is a (single) reason why I cannot support one, while am OK with the other.

THE END

#ZEP #long post #text post #speculation #theory #analysis #Max vs Simon #THIS IS JUST MY TAKE ON HOW I'VE INTERPRETED THE STORYTELLING...SO FAR #ZOEY'S EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST #ZOEYS EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST #ZOEY'S EP #Zoey Clarke #Max Richman #Max x Zoey #Zoey x Max #Jane Levy #Skylar Astin #TEAM MAX

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twdmusicboxmystery · 5 years

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FTWD 5x16: Analysis

Wow! What did everyone thing of last night’s episode? I thought it was great. Yes, it ended on a little bit of a cliffhanger, but I thought the writing was really genius.

***As always, spoilers abound for episode 5x16 below. Don’t read until you’ve watched!***

First, let’s appreciate the title: End of the Line. I know it had to do with the song Grace and Daniel sang at the end, but it caught my attention for another reason. I just have to point out that Terminus was also once referred to as “the end of the line.” I might have more to say about Terminus in a later post. For now, just wanted to point that out.

We started with seeing a pair of feet running. It reminded me of when we saw Morgan’s feet running at the beginning of FTWD S4 when he ran away from Washington D.C. and toward Texas. We saw with the feet and not the face. It’s also similar to what we saw in Inmates: Beth and Daryl’s feet while they ran away from walkers. After a moment, Dwight tripped and we saw it was him.

I'm trying to decide why they used this parallel. You could argue that Morgan ran away from a war happening (between TF and Negan) and he ended up saving a lot of people (the current Fear crew). Similarly, Dwight ran away from a war about to happen between Morgan's group and Ginny, and he ended up taking back some horses and saving them. That's probably not the extent of this parallel, but it's a start. I wonder if Morgan, in a bigger sense, or his group will end up going back to D.C. and saving them in some way there. But that's just conjecture. I’ll get into why I’m wondering about that later in the week.

At first, I wondered if this bit with Dwight was a flashback. I soon realized it wasn't. He thinks he hears Sherry's voice through the walkie, but she doesn't answer him when he says her name. It's as though he can hear her, but she can't hear him.

Later he tells June he thinks it was in his head, but her voice was leading him to something. That’s because right after he hears her voice, whether phantom or not, he sees the horses.

This is super-significant in my mind. I mean, we had the disembodied voice on the radio at the end of TWD 9x16. A disembodied female voice leading him toward something. And then there’s all those pesky parallels between Dwight/Sherry and Daryl/Beth. So it feels like a parallel/foreshadow.

And then there’s the horses. They’re a huge Beth symbol. We saw Buttons in 5B, and Morgan finding the one in 6x16 with the sign, "You're still alive" nearby. And now here, Dwight finds horses to take back to Morgan's group and help them.

Next, we see a bird’s eye view of Gulch, looking down on the walkers. We’ve seen that shot many times before, mostly in regular TWD. We saw it with the tank Rick jumped into in 1x01. We also saw it after the prison fell. I feel like this is how they signal that there's a big change coming.

More specifically, it’s often a separation of characters. So, in 1x01, Rick was separated from his family. When we saw it in 4x09, the prison had just fallen and all of the characters scattered/separated. And, of course, by the end of this episode, our entire crew was forcibly separated by Ginny.

We then hear Morgan talking to Ginny. Remember at the end of the last episode he called her on the walkie. Something she said stood out to me. She said she was glad he called her for help. "Glad as a grandma with a gravy boat." It just struck me as a callback to Daryl in The Cell and the “gravy train” named in the Easy Street song.

When Morgan tells her his group is at the Gulch, she seems surprised. She tells him a little story. She says there were 263 souls in that place and they had a crackpot leader who made the wrong call.

That struck me as something of a Grady parallel. Remember that in Dawn's case, she talked about Capt. Hansen and how he had “cracked.” After that, Dawn stepped in. So, if Ginny represents Dawn in this analogy, we have a supposed crackpot who made a bad call got a lot of people killed, just that Capt. Hansen did. And Ginny seems to have assumed leadership in his stead, as Dawn did at Grady.

Even at this point, I saw the parallels. As the episode progresses, we learn even more about what happened there. Ginny wasn't being entirely truthful. Upon learning more, the parallels to Grady only become stronger. Because as it turns out, she killed this man and his 263 people for fighting back. So just as Dawn killed Capt. Hansen, Ginny killed this guy.

She refuses to guarantee to Morgan that she’ll take everybody or that she’ll let them stay together. Morgan asks her to come anyway because they don't have another way to survive.

When he goes to talk to Grace, she has some interesting things to say. She says she knows her time (for dying) is coming. Because she's sick, she knows Ginny won't take her. Morgan assures her that he’ll make sure she's taken along.

She also tells him she understands what he was trying to tell her before. (Quick refresher: last episode, Morgan started to tell Grace how he felt about her, but she asked him not to.)

She says that she actually did tell her previous boyfriend how she felt before he died. The main reason she did was because she knew he was dying. She even tells him of the two of them slept together. She just didn’t want to make things any harder because she’s sick and still thinks she’ll be dying soon. Morgan insists that they will see one another again. Keep that in mind, as I think it's foreshadowing.

After that, Dwight shows up with the horses. He points out that if these horses are alive, there must be water nearby. Which means Ginny lied about them not being able to survive there. She simply wants them to come with her.

Alicia takes her weapon back from Strand and they decide to try and clear the Gulch of walkers. They do a mini Operation-Lead-the-Walkers-Away, which made me smile.

John, June, Daniel, Morgan, and Grace get on horses to lead the horde. (I had to smile at this part as well because Morgan rode double with Grace. Especially as she’s ill, there was no reason AT ALL for her to go rather than staying behind with Al and the others. This was just to enhance the Morgan/Grace romance. Which again, made me smile.)

They plan to use the walkers to surround Ginny and not hurt her, but just try to get her to agree to what they want. Unfortunately, this plan falls through because Ginny shows up with Luciana in tow, and Morgan’s group doesn’t want to risk Luciana getting hurt. Plus, her being there means Ginny has leverage against them, which is no doubt why she brought Luciana. So the plan fails before it even begins.

Back at the Gulch, Al finds some of the key badges Ginny’s people wear. She figures out Ginny lied about the people at the Gulch having simply died from refusing her help. She attacked and killed them because they resisted her. So, they realize that if she comes, she’ll make war on them and they're vastly out-manned and outgunned. They basically prepared to surrender to her.

Daniel had a great line in this episode. Strand is considering taking up Ginny on her offer and Daniel says, "She's not giving us a choice. That is all we need to know." Amen bro! Go Daniel!

When Ginny's people arrive at where Al's truck was left, things start to go bad. Dwight’s horse starts to freak out, obviously afraid of the walkers. He becomes surrounded and his horse refuses to move.

Finally, he stands up on top of the horse’s saddle and jumps over the walkers’ heads. He hurts his leg when he lands, but at least he isn’t bitten. The horse isn’t so lucky. The walkers fall on it and start munching. It looks exactly like what happened to Buttons, so I think it's a callback to that in S5. (And also, by extension, to Rick’s horse in 1x01.)

Limping, Dwight gets up and runs. He eventually comes to the river of water. This struck me as a Beth parallel. I never really saw Buttons as much a Beth parallel—he seemed to be more about Daryl. Watching this, it struck me that it actually might be. Dwight hurt his leg and was limping (like Beth in 4b). He finds the water (Beth = water) and of course he’s running from a walker horde.

If Morgan finding the white horse (Beth) next to the "you're still alive," sign represents Beth living, then maybe walkers feasting on Buttons could represent what happened to her. Or at least what TF things happen to her. This is just me conjecturing, but if it ends up being true, then Daryl seeing Buttons go down kind of has a new meaning, now doesn't it?

Morgan goes after Dwight and then John, June and Grace go after them. They eventually lead the walkers across the river and the river water sweeps the walkers away. So once again we have an example of water saving them. From walkers.

Back at the Gulch, they realize they're going to have to give in to Ginny. They don't any other choice.

Before she arrives, Lucia and Wes paint at the church and John and June get married. It's a very sweet, happy and hopeful ceremony.

June wears green, which I think is important. (GREENE, and think of the parallels between John/June and Daryl/Beth.) Dwight gives them his and Sherry's rings. He talks about how when he finds Sherry, it will be a new start. John’s ends up being too small for his finger, so Charlie gives them a necklace and he wears it around his neck.

Rabbi Jacob talks about how they live in a broken world. And this kind of thing, two people falling in love and getting married, is a way to repair it.

Grace and Daniel sing “Well it's all right." The light shines into the church in really lovely way and Jacob says that it's Nar Tamid, the eternal light. Yeah, massive foreshadowing there. More on that in a minute.

After that, Ginny arrives. Morgan demands she take everybody. After some humming and hawing, she finally agrees, deciding it will be easier to do that than to have a big battle. Unfortunately, she doesn't let them stay together. They all go to separate places.

Al confronts Ginny with the reason why. She says Ginny separates people because she believes if they get too close, their caring for one another will get in the way. In other words, she separates them so she has more power over them. She's definitely a dictator.

Daniel and Charlie have to part, which was kind of heartbreaking. Ditto Sarah and Wendell. They take Daniel’s cat away from him. John and Joan part as well, with John saying, "were going to find our way back to each other." (Beth and Daryl, anyone?)

Grace tells Morgan she finally feels hope and after all that happened, for the first time, she doesn't feel like it's the beginning of the end. In other words, she's going to live. Morgan finally tells her he has feelings for her, and she reciprocates. Of course, Ginny makes them go to different places.

She brings in a guy named Dr. Holt who apparently once did a rotation in oncology. I've got a lot to say about the radiation angle. @wdway, @frangipanilove and I have been discussing it, but it’s a whole post unto itself. For now, let me just point out the Grady parallel. Trevitt, who was brought into Grady, was an oncologist. I’ll go over what we think this means in a lot more detail later this week.

After everyone else leaves, and Morgan is the only one left, it turns out Ginny has decided to kill him. He's just too much of a threat because of the way he rallies people. He's too much of a leader to suit her. She takes out her gun to kill him. He lunges at her with his stick and manages to hit her in the face and knock her down. (I thought that was AWESOME! Go Morgan!) Unfortunately, she still shoots him in the shoulder.

She grabs another gun and tries again to shoot him, but the gun hisses and sputters, not firing correctly.

Just then, Dr. Holt contacts Ginny to say Grace is not sick. She's pregnant. So that's where the information she gave Morgan earlier in the episode—that she and her previous boyfriend slept together right before he died—is so important. It created baby. Morgan smiles when he hears this because he sees hope in it. He realizes what they were fighting for was worth it.

The creepy thing? Ginny gets super happy when she hears Grace is pregnant. She actually laughs. Then she says she hopes Morgan dies, but that’s no longer the point.

I have no idea what the hell Ginny is up to, but there was a creep factor there. Almost like she’s going to take Grace’s baby and do experiments on it or something. Hopefully it won’t be that sinister--I’m really not trying to be morbid--but that disturbed me.

And I have to say that, given all the Child and Baby symbolism around Beth, the idea of this definitely has potential. Frightening though it may be.

Ginny simply walks away from him, leaving him behind to die. We end with him speaking into the radio saying, “If anyone can hear me, we fought for the future. We made the hard call for her." (I'm assuming he means Grace.) “For all of us. Live. Just live." And we see walkers closing in on him.

So what are my takeaways from this? I suppose the biggest question is, will Morgan guy?

No, he won't. If you hadn’t already figured that, just take my word for it. Everything we’ve seen, the precedents we have, the qualifications for death we always see…none of them are present here for Morgan.

When someone truly dies in the show, some other major member from the group needs to be there to witness it. We also need to see either a body (decapitated or reanimated as a walker, or stabbed in the head to prevent that, so we know there's no coming back from it) and/or a burial/grave. We haven't seen any of those with Morgan.

While he does seem to have lost a lot of blood and is in a somewhat dire situation, he can also simply go into the nearest building and shut the door. He's in much more danger medically than he actually is from the walkers, which is significant.

If you want to talk logistics and outside-the-show stuff, keep in mind that Morgan/Lenny James has filmed scenes we haven't actually seen yet. I also feel like by setting up his bond with Grace, they set up future arcs for the two of them. Lots of Bethyl parallels there. There's also the fact that I still think he and Rick need to meet again before either of them dies. So no, I'm not worried about Morgan dying.

And how about those foreshadows I keep mentioning? Well, Morgan told Grace very firmly several times that they would see one another again after Ginny split them up. That, my friends, is a dialogue foreshadow. Those have never failed us on this show.

Then there's the eternal light. We saw it come through during John and June's wedding (John and June, who have so many parallels to Beth and Daryl) just before Ginny showed up to split them up. So, I feel like it's saying that Ginny splitting them up will lead to the eternal light. Which is them finding each other again, as John said, but also could be a Beth thing.

Another reason I don't think Morgan will die? He kind of became Beth in this episode. Think about it. Right after establishing a romantic relationship with someone (remember that Grace and Morgan had a Still/Alone parallel episode) he was shot by an evil dictator who happens to be a woman. (Okay, Beth wasn’t actually shot by Dawn, but she was shot because of her in a roundabout way.) Then he was shot, left behind by the rest of his group, and he's surrounded by that pesky horde of walkers as well. Not to mention, he's in a Humbug Gulch, which has sheriff stars and badges all over the place.

Specifically, take a look at the second time she tries to shoot him and the gun is defective. That gun was pointed at Morgan’s head. And it did go off, it just didn’t shoot correctly. But, like Beth, we have a potential head shot that...didn’t kill.

We don’t know if any of his group, like Grace, heard him speak into the radio at the end. If they didn’t, then they don’t know anything about him being shot or left behind. They’ll just assume he’s wherever Ginny told him to go. So that’s a little different than Beth, but the lack of realization on the rest of the group’s part is the same.

I guess you could say that, much like Glenn in S6, if Morgan dies, TD is screwed. But he won't. Glenn didn't.

Morgan’s isn’t truly a death fake out because, much like Rick’s, the audience sees it from Morgan's point of view and kind of knows that he is still alive. But for the rest of the group (John, June, etc.). this might turn into a death fake out for them.

It will be interesting to see what happens next because it could go several different ways. In terms of parallels with Beth, I'm kind of wondering if Morgan will run into the helicopter group, independent of the rest of the Fear crew. (Like maybe they’ll save him?) Because that's what we think happened with Beth. On the other hand, he might just be on his own for a while on the outside and save the others from Ginny. Maybe he actually runs into Beth. Who knows? It will be fun to see how this happens, moving forward.

As I said in an Ask yesterday, I have a lot of things to post in the next week before TWD starts. I wanted to wait to see how this all ended. The timeline didn't advance quite as much as I would've thought. I thought Morgan's group would run into the helicopter group by the end of the season. They didn't, and it's becoming more and more clear that Ginny’s group isn't actually part of the helicopter group. I think she's her own thing.

But I really did like this episode and the way it ended. Even though it was cliff-hangery, it set up a great arc for next season of all the characters needing to find one another. After all, this is not unlike what happened in TWD when the prison went down with all the characters going in separate directions and being separated from one another in 4b. Now, they're all going to have to find their way back to each other. And that, my friends, always makes for great story.

What did you think of the finale?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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bughead · 6 years

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I’m a Bughead shipper but I just know Barchie is gonna happen. That’s how it supposed to be and how Roberto has planned it from the very first start. Bughead was not supposed to be that popular, he probably regrets it now because he can’t actually do what he wanted without pissing off his most popular fandom. I’ve learned to chill. Whatever happens will happen. It’s unfortunate.

literally nothing you just said makes me believe you’re a bughead shipper. in fact, i think i’ve seen almost the exact same wording on twitter from b*rchie accounts. i’ll leave you with an answer i gave all the way back in february

the episodes that he specifically writes show nothing but bughead and varchie endgame. i really don’t think he’s here for b*rchie or any sort of love triangle between our core four.

he wrote 1x01, which painted betty and archie’s relationship as completely platonic on archie’s side. and her confession of feelings at the school dance 100% backed up the theory that betty was “in love” with archie because she thought they’d be perfect together. it was grounded in fantasy much more than it was in reality. archie was immediately enthralled with veronica, and straight up told her he’d never had romantic feelings for betty

he wrote 1x02, which ended with betty at pop’s beginning to accept that archie didn’t want to be with her, and that she wasn’t going to hold onto her hurt and let it stop her from becoming friends with veronica, AND it was the moment betty and jughead first interacted. he saved their first interaction until after the BAV “triangle” was over. you can’t meet the right one until you’ve let go of the wrong one. it’s pretty much been established that betty’s crush on archie blinded her to all else, so in the scene where that smoke is finally starting to clear……oh, there’s jughead

he wrote 1x11 (fun fact: this aired on my birthday), which was a good episode for varchie because it was really the start of their relationship–but it was a HUGE episode for bughead. we had jughead, who has been shown to be desperate to get his family back together, choose betty over making that happen. we had betty furious at everybody accusing fp and hurting jughead, and she told her mom that jughead was just as much her family as she was. she LOVES him. that was not just the first bughead declaration of love, it was the first time we heard it from betty period. she asked archie if he loved her in episode one, but she never said that she loved him. she tells veronica “the boy i like.” that’s pretty significant, in my opinion

he wrote 1x13, which was obviously a big episode for bughead and varchie. veronica and archie finally became a couple with betty’s blessing. betty referred to veronica and jughead as the people they were meant to be with. betty and jughead were called soul mates. veronica brought up her insecurities about b*rchie to archie, and he told her (for a second time) that he’s only ever felt friendship for betty. we had the first scene of bughead and varchie together cuddled up as couples at pop’s. veronica and archie had sex. betty and jughead exchanged i love yous. it was a giant hit against b*rchie and the BAV love triangle, ESPECIALLY when you find out the tiny hints of those things that were in the episode, roberto was told to add in. something that’s also super telling: the alternate ending for this episode (in case they didn’t get renewed for s2) was jughead moving in with the coopers

he wrote 2x01, which was an important one for varchie. a lot of people like to complain that their relationship is very physical. that was addressed in that episode. veronica told betty that sort of thing was easy for her, the emotional stuff was harder, but she wanted to try because she cares about archie so much. and she does a great job of pushing herself out of her comfort zone. archie tries to push her away and she refuses to let him. at the hospital, the doctor told archie to talk to his dad (who was in a coma) about good things–he talked about veronica. the hallucinations fred had, the things he didn’t want to miss in archie’s life, were his graduation, his engagement to veronica, and his wedding to veronica. that scene was so extravagant. RAS went all out with the varchie wedding, and it wasn’t even real. bughead was super well written too. we had adorable flirting, but also betty was open about her worries with him. it was beautiful communication and ended with her telling him she would support him no matter what, and they had a beautiful kiss in the rain

he wrote 2x12, which had two more clear married!varchie references. the first being archie mesmerized by veronica in her white dress, and the second being her blurring out everybody except him as she said “i do” for her confirmation. veronica spent the whole episode wanting to shield archie from the evils of her family, and then when she was finally going to tell him her dad was involved with the mafia, archie told her he already knew and basically professed his undying love for her. we had bughead return to their s1 dynamic, AND had them acknowledge that they’d lost that trying to protect each other instead of facing the ugliness together. they’re not just boyfriend and girlfriend, they’re partners. they get shit done when they’re together. they give each other great ideas and refuse to let the other give up. they rebounded (somewhat) on those big secrets and communication problems they were having. jughead came clean about everything, and while betty didn’t, i think RAS did a good job of painting her struggle. i didn’t get the vibe that she didn’t tell jughead about the kiss with archie because it meant something to her. i got the vibe that, after jughead basically told her that her breaking up with him through archie is what drove him into toni’s arms, she was scared to tell him that she’d also kissed him. you see her pause their make-out, wanting to tell him, but then deciding not to because she probably thinks he’ll stop. the fact that she kissed archie and lied about it could cause her to lose him, again–so she says “i want all of you. tonight.” he might not want another night when he finds out, so she’s going to take what she can get while she can. i think the idea that he’d break up with her over a kiss is ridiculous, but it’s a real fear for her. –back on topic, roberto made sure that he was the one to write their first time. RAS writing both varchie and bughead’s first time is not a coincidence

he wrote 2x22, which was a lighter varchie episode, but a MASSIVE one for bughead. we opened with jughead in a coma dreaming about betty standing over his grave, holding his prized beanie, crying, and telling him to come back to her. roberto wrote betty telling our narrator that he needs to come back because their story isn’t over. their story. he low-key implied riverdale is bughead’s love story. anyway, this dream is what brings jughead back from the brink of death. and then later when fp tells him they’re leaving town, he angrily tells him that he’s not leaving betty. jughead holds betty over his blood family, something we saw in 1x11 as well (written by roberto). on betty’s side, we have this guilt, and pain, and anger eating her up (and not just in 2x22, she’s struggled with her “darkness” since season 1). one conversation with jughead and she’s able to face her father and confidently tell him that she’s not like him. she’s not a bad person, she’s not evil. that’s some true love stuff. and them babysitting polly’s twins? well, i’m just gonna leave this here

then we have the HOTEL scene. this part got trimmed, but roberto originally wrote that scene opening with betty telling jughead she wanted to stay there forever. betty and jughead laughed and smiled in that scene more than they did pretty much the entire season. he asked betty to be his queen, and she asked if he was asking her to join the serpents, and he said sort of. the scene was intentionally written to sound like a proposal. roberto is so hyped for married bughead that he had to get them pre-engaged in the second season

roberto is varchie & bughead endgame, everything he writes points to it

roberto has stated a few times that they were taking a risk pairing betty and jughead together, but he felt like (and was hopeful) that the audience would take to them–which they did. he was the first person to ever make that leap, and end the BAV love triangle and have betty and jughead fall in love, and it paid off HUGE. why would he look at that and feel regret?? i imagine the dude feels pretty fucking prideful. i could go on and on about how unfounded your claim that “roberto has planned [b*rchie] from the very first start” is, but i think i’ve already made my point

#ask #Anonymous #meta

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mouseintheannex · 7 years

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It is damn near impossible to pick a single favourite Ezekiel line, but here are some good Ezekiel quotes from my ever-growing ‘notes and quotes’ collection (which, for the record, is still incomplete/patchy for various reasons). hopefully I have transcribed these correctly but no guarantees, you know how it is

“A man’s reach should exceed his grasp, or... what’s heaven for?” (1x01)

To Jake: “You are one strange cowboy.” (1x01)

“I won’t risk my life! But, I assume I can outrun anything, so... I’m in.” (1x03)

“Everybody lies! Except me.” (2x03)

“Werewolves, mate. And not the dorky Taylor Lautner kind.” (3x02)

“Never tie up a thief!” (3x08) [a classic tbh]

I’m surprised I don’t have more than that but my latest rewatch (in which I was making more detailed notes and writing down more direct quotes) got interrupted early on and I haven’t picked it back up so I guess that’s why

Anyway Ezekiel is very very good

#Ezekiel Jones #EJAW 2017 #this is making me want to pick it back up right now but I cannnn't #after I get through all the assignments due this coming week #THEN I can go back to the show #The Librarians #mine #Mouse talks

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aspiestvmusings · 3 years

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ZEP: S1 - CLARKEMAN ENDGAME

This is part of my ZEP: S1 Thoughts Master Post

Here’s the new & updated long analysis post for ZEP S1. This one features the whole season, all 12 episodes.

Just me...dissecting & analyzing the storyline...with focus on Zoey & Team Max. But since the stories are so intertwined, there’s Zoey/dad & Zoey/Simon talk, too. Among other things...relevant to it all...

ZEP: MAX & ZOEY - THOUGHTS 1 [LINK HERE]

WHY TEAM MAX IS ENDGAME

THE LOVE TRIANGLE

I hear the showrunner & the characters talk about a “love triangle”, yet I don’t see one (just confused, grieving people). I hear them talk about a deep emotional bond between Z&S, and yet I don’t see it on screen. I see a pretty shallow connection due to their dads - “grief bond” with no actual deeper connection. And though I personally don’t “feel” that they actually feel attraction to the other, I’m willing to admit that perhaps each truly thinks they do…and actually find the other attractive. But nonetheless the story, to me, has clearly been told in a way that showcases the differences of the two men in her life.

One thing that kinda supports my theories is that while we & Zoey have heard Max sing her actual “love songs” (revealing that the connection they have is love, friendship, romance), then Simon’s “heart songs” have been mostly related to his grief (”Should I stay or should I go” is kinda an exception here). Meaning their connection is based on that, and his grief is what she’s supposed to help him with. All S’s songs have been about his inability to deal with the loss of his dad, and the problems in his life & relationship that have come from this. Which is why I’m still a bit confused why the show is calling it a love triangle, when it doesn’t really seem to be.

Since they all sing their innermost thoughts, and the songs are related to the feelings they have, and connected to the “problem” Zoey is supposed to help them with, then for Simon that seems to be “everything grief related” (he’s still not dealing with the loss, and it affected his relationship with Jessica..etc)…and I don’t understand why Zoey isn’t more actively helping him with that…instead focusing on “do I possibly have romantic feelings for the man?”, when she & Mo established that if she doesn’t help the person who she hears sing with their problem… that’s not good. I think THIS is the thing that has “confused” me. (but we all know network shows love their love triangles and such drama, so they have to play it like that..). So I really hope that in the coming eps we will see Z. help S. deal with his grief (she has her family, Mo & Max…who help her, but S. doesn’t seem to have any support system…) and “fix him”.

Good news for one team, perhaps not so good for the other team.

Based on everything we’ve seen on the show (the storytelling, the promotional materials, the spoilers)… everything points to Max/Zoey being the endgame. I’ve seen many fans (both those who support Team M & those who support Team S), say that they get the same message from the storytelling. It does seem to be the clear message from the show…no matter how they get there..or when…

The “proof”:

First: The actor who portrayes Max is billed higher (probably mostly cause he’s done more well-known musical projects before than the other actor), and he’s featured in much more promotional materials (promo pics, posters, promo videos…) and in more central role, than the other actor. The promotion is vastly focused on M/Z. They use those characters & actors… a lot…for promotion. That suggests only one thing.

Second: They told us the premise of Zoey’s future relationships in the Pilot already via this Max/Zoey conversation:

Zoey: I have a long history of — what do you call my past relationships again? –

Max: – “Unnecessarily complicated, exhausting for everybody, the opposite of good”?

Zoey: Yeah. Those things. Which is why this time I’m just gonna take things slow, and wait for the right “in”

And with Zoey/Simon thing has been just a repeat of her past experiences which she claims she doesn’t want to re-live again, and this show is all about her growth as a character/person, this cannot be the endgame. Even if they’d reveal that S/J have broken up… all that’s already happened has followed this exact description (see Max’s quote)

Third: While Zoey sang her heart song to Max and they had a moment for themselves (though..let’s be honest…they get interrupted so much that others in the office must’ve overheard a lot by now…), the heartsong to Simon seemed to be more like a setup for having Max see it. And while both songs are about her deepest, secret feelings/desires… and there’s truth in both, then the way the scenes were set up makes it seem like she sang to her best friend to make him aware of how she really feels (what he said in the previous ep: he needs to know/get a respose from her…and this gave him that). But the other song was meant to be overheard by her best friend…and that was the goal of the song/scene (not the song itself, but that he saw). Again pointing to the show going for Max as the endgame.

Fourth: The triangle is as follows: Both Max & Simon like Zoey, but she only really likes one of them. Both men sang heart songs to her (Max = I think I love you, Sucker, If I can’t have you, 500 miles), and she sang to both…but different songs. Simon sang “If you say that you are mine, I’ll be here ‘til the end of time” in 1x05, so it’s coming from his side. Zoey in 1x08 sang “I’m Yours” to Max (that her heart is his), but she sang “I want you to want me” to Simon (not that she wants him, but she wants him to want her). As her best friend explained it - one is about love, the other physical attraction. But… if you listen to the lyrics more closely then based on them she’s singing about how she saw S. crying & all alone (1x01) and how that affected her, compared to singing to M. how she’s “caught feelings”. So she’s only actually interested in Max, as her feelings for Simon are not mutual (beyond the grief bond). One is one-sided and more “superficial”, the other is mutual and more “serious”.

Fifth: While we’ve seen that Zoey thinks she’s caught feelings for Simon (what she told her mom at the engagement party), and she hasn’t really admitted this to anyone besides her mom, she seems to not see it as a good thing. She also claims to both Max & Simon that she doesn’t really have feelings for Simon/wasn’t aware of her feelings and/or that she’s basically over it… so kinda “little white lies”. She seems to think they have a sort of connection and/or she seems to find him attractive…despite realizing that it cannot happen because he’s engaged. (and before Simon went and took the wrong step, he said the right thing - they leaned too much on each other about their grief, and they should just go back to co-workers, and that’s all. Sadly…that was changed because of the “glitch” that mislead…people). But… we also saw that she is fighting against having feelings for the morally questionable engaged man, cause she probably realizes it’s a bad idea.

Sixth: All this time, but especially in the last episode, the show has tried to show the two men in her life differently, and show the differences in their “relationships” with Zoey. It’s a very classic “fairytale story” that follows often-used “clichees”. They’ve shown how the two are different, and how the connection between both “ships” is different. And everything points to them starting to make the difference even more clear. By now they all are aware of each others feelings…to some point… and both men are aware that they’re both competing for her interest.

And she’s aware that she is interested in both… but in different ways, and for different reasons. And again they used Max to vocalize the choice before her - will she choose physical attraction without deeper connection or love and deeper emotional connection…AKA “new attractive co-worker who went through what shes going through VS her best friend, who is always there for her…no matter what. The options were made clear, now it’s her decision. And it’ll depend a lot on how each man will act from now on…at the most difficult time in her life (she’s now really going to lose her dad).

If Simon will try to make advances based on the heart song she sang, which gave outmixed signals AND at the same time Max will continue being a good friend (as we saw in 1x08…despite their dispute) then that’ll make Z/S grow furher apart and Z/M grow closer. And since it’s all become too complicated and messy for everyone… then it’s very possible all this will get to Jessica, and break those two apart. But… that’s IMO gonna be the opposite from making the path clear for S/Z. To have Simon as a character grow they need to have him deal with his grief, and all that. The Simon vs Max thing is a lot like Leif/Tobin thing… where the peer reviews made one become sketchy and start playing games, and the other start working on bettering themselves. I expect similar differences of paths taken for S & M. Especially because we’ve not only seen Tobin 2.0, but also Max 2.0 (and we’ll see more of that..in coming eps)

Seventh: We ve heard spoilers than in the S1 finale there will be a “heart song” for/from/with one of the two and Zoey. From how the scene is decribed it sound more like something fitting to Max (Max/Zoey). Which fits with how the season and story has been built so far. That seems to also confirm where they’re taking it. Cause…they’ve established that just like on most shows the main character HAS TO have a love interest, and so far they’ve only introduced two options.

Other reasons why Zoey will most likely choose “love” over “physical attraction” (in the end, even if she’ll choose differently for now):

We saw Zoey’s reaction when she found out that S. had a SO/was engaged - she ran. And though she might find him attractive (physically)…as she found out via her heart song in 1x08, and she might feel a connection to him (because of the heart song she heard him sing in 1x01), she hasn’t shown interest in actually being with him… because she knows he’s taken. And also because she’s not really in the right place to start a relationship. She/They may not realize it, but they don’t have much more in common than grief - that’s the center of their bond (for now). Despite her interest/attraction to him & her thinking she “likes” him…

This is also why it’s easier for her to admit she has/had feelings for Simon, but she’s having trouble admitting…to herself (and Mo) & to Max that she may have feelings for her best friend. There’s nothing to lose with the first, but a lot to lose with the second. She’s afraid (and she varbalized it at the end of 1x07) that something could not go well… etc

She is completely at easy with Max seeing her with a facemask on, eating take-out, alone, at home, but she hides it (the true self) from Simon. She wears “a mask” with Simon, but doesn’t with Max. Same with how she didn’t tell Simon about her dad in 1x08 (brushing it off: hospital = lollipop), while telling Max that her dad had an apointment that morning. And though it did take her time to find the courage to tell him about it all in detail, she did..in the end. But from the start she shared the main info even if she didn’t tell what exactly happened and how she feels about it. She didn’t completely brush it off with him…even if the news made her unable to process and share it…right away.

We saw how she resisted her personal heart songs to Leif/Joan & to Simon, while being completely at ease with singing them to her best friend (Max) and her dad (Mitch). Cause if we leave out the big dance numbers (Crazy, Pressure), then she tried stopping herself from singing the others…the personal songs… and/or apologized for what’s to come…with Simon, too. But with Max (and her dad) the song just came to her…without the need to apologize or resist it. And afterwards she just tried to claim it didn’t mean as much, because she’s just in denial (and not really ready to start a relationship…because right now she is going through stages of grief). There’s a huge difference in both the heart songs she sang & HOW she sang them.

And we’ve seen that she really appreciates him as a friend, and as she told him - she can’t lose him as a friend…she needs him in her life. She cares about his feelings. She is afraid she gave him the wrong impression, she runs after him to explain things to him, because she knows that he got hurt. She actually cares about him…and is feelings (as a friend). And they’ve not shown the same reaction with Simon. And though the friends to one-sided to more-than-friends trope is “an overused clichee”, it isn’t necessarily bad. It can work well. Examples: Mondler on Friends, Peraltiago on B99…

Max may have the advantage of having known her longer, and knowing her better (because they’ve been friends for 5 years), and hence she’s more comfortable around him. And…that’s the reason why she let him in on her superpower secret, and why she tells him about…things. But… that’s precisely why she should and will choose Max over Simon. (He’s been there for her…always…and he continues to be there for her…through this hard time in her life.)

We saw how even though he was upset with her (for keeping secrets from him, from setting him up with someone else when she knew about his feelings for her…just because she didn’t dare to be honest with him & communicate…and hearing her sing to another person, too…) he was still there for her. A shoulder to lean on…literally and figuratively. He came to her rescue when she put her job at risk (singing Pressure), he gave her her mom’s message and supportive advice regarding her dad… And though there’s a hint of competitiveness that he seems to feel after the 1x07 elevator end scene (where we saw that both men seem to think they’ll be the end choice), and him wanting some kind of response from her, the 1x07 end scene and other moments have shown us that he’s willing to wait til she’s ready.

Especially…since in 1x07 he felt like it’s unfair that she can see into his heart and knows how he feels about her, he doesn’t. But in 1x08 he got to see into her heart (because even though she’d promised to always be honest with him from now on… she wasn’t fully… for a bit… and the “glitch” made her break her promise…til the evening), and it’s more “fair”. He now isn’t as in the dark, and less uncertain. I think the glitch was good for him, because he now knows how she really feels. All he wanted was an honest answer. And though it’s undertandable that he’s a bit hurt by what he’s heard & seen lately… but in the end it was beneficial. As Mo put it… he deserves an answer…no matter what it is…

I get the feeling that by now Zoey’s actually aware that she has feelings for her best friend. She might’ve not been aware of it all until he sang the first heart song to her, but after that we’ve clearly seen that she has either started to realize she actually has feelings for him or that she’s started to have feelings for him. She showed signs of jealousy when he was with Autumn (seeing them talking at the coffee shop, dancing at the club…). She couldn’t stop staring at him when she walked in during the Mo’ Makeover…indicating clearly that she finds him also physically attractive. Not to mention the emotional connection, and friendship. All the looks she gives him, her song & dance during “I’m Yours”… all for him…

And she cares about his feelings & not hurting him (running after him when he sees her heart song to Simon…) The look she has, when he brings her dad pudding & when she sees him with her dad or when she hears him sing “500 miles”, or the looks and giggles when she sings her heart song to him…. While she’s in no place in a relationship at this time, I think she’s realized that despite her grief and emotional state she’s developing feelings for her best friend. And that… just like what’s going on with her dad, seems to scare her.

#ZEP #ZOEY'S EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST #CLARKEMAN #TEXT POST #ONG POST #LIST POST #ZOEYS EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST #Zoey's EP #Zoey Clarke #Max Richman #Zomax #Zax #ZEP S1 #ZEP SEASON 1 #SEASON 1

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bughead · 6 years

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Idk how anyone could watch this episode and not see that Bughead and Varchie are endgame lol. RAS came through

i agree. roberto says a lot of things in interviews that irritate me, but the episodes that he specifically writes show nothing but bughead and varchie endgame. i really don’t think he’s here for b*rchie or any sort of love triangle between our core four.

he wrote 1x13, which was obviously a big episode for bughead and varchie. veronica and archie finally became a couple with betty’s blessing. betty referred to veronica and jughead as the people they were meant to be with. betty and jughead were called soul mates. veronica brought up her insecurities about b*rchie to archie, and he told her (for a second time) that he’s only ever felt friendship for betty. we had the first scene of bughead and varchie together cuddled up as couples at pop’s. veronica and archie had sex. betty and jughead exchanged i love yous. it was a giant hit against b*rchie and the BAV love triangle, ESPECIALLY when you find out the tiny hits of those things that were in the episode, roberto was told to add in. something that’s also super telling: the alternate ending for this episode (in case they didn’t get renewed for s2) was jughead moving in with the coopers

roberto is varchie & bughead endgame, everything he writes points to it

#Anonymous #ask #meta

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