#Also communities isolate people anyways

[blackpilljesus]

I find community discourse incredibly annoying. People are often like "Wheres's the community? We need community! People are so individualistic these days". Individualism gets a lot of criticism but nobody ever questions why this happens. While there are some merits to communities, historically communities have mainly benefitted the priviledged. Most communities evolve into divide-and-rule politics where some are seen as more deserving than others (based on things that cannot be controlled). If you're a marginalised person, more often than not you get bs from communities, not love and protection as advertised.

When you're on the short stick side of the divide-and-rule politics in communities, communities are dangerous for you. It will be seen as acceptable to abuse & put you in horrible conditions simply bc of what you are. Those who abuse tend to be in higher positions in communities so when you call them out people wouldn't care or believe you. You'll be punished when you fight back however. When you're marginalised in a community you receive the worst brunts from people and it's seen as okay to be less deserving of support. You wont be supported in community.

People talk about "safety in numbers" but when the community faces trouble, they will have no problem abandoning or sacrificing the marginalised to save themselves at large. Communities have no problem throwing others away or isolating them once it benefits them. Alot of the time people are used & abused in communities so they're fed up with that, fed up of being treated like second class citizens in communities.

Look at the way communties people reminisce about & yearn for actually turned out. "We had community back in the day" yeah the same ones full of predatory uncles that would abuse women & children and get defended, the same communities full of victim blaming & shaming women + girls for being abused, the same communities where some were implicitly told they were more inferior but if they obeyed those higher up in power they can be forgiven. People talk about a lack of a "third place" bc of the rise of secularism so less are going to places of worship but many people leave those communities (even if their faith is still intact) because of corruption & abuse. The judgements & hypocrisy in these places is a lot (one of the reasons I personally left religion & the community too).

Best believe if you can hold your own down, being in a community is more dangerous than being alone bc like i said when things go south your ass will be on the chopping block first. Hell if people just want to abuse, they'll go for the marginalised first & so much abuse is enabled in communities. They'll ostracise & shun you and the threat of that alone keeps many in line to uphold abusive structures in place in communities.

"But humans are natural social creatures that want to be in groups" is something I hear often & that should make you stop and think of how so many people going against this instinct to survive says a lot about how dangerous alot of communities are. It's our nature to socialise, be in groups yet it's chosen to be independent because of the danger groups actually present when you're not seen as a valued member of them.

At this point people would either say "look inwards" or "find better communities out there" but the problem is that status in communities isnt entirely based on the merit of the way you behave. Finding communities where you're accepted & valued IRL tends to be based on things you cant control. It's not like the internet where you put yourself out there & eventually find your community even if they live all over the world. In reality it's another ballgame, people are more closed off & judgemental if you dont fit certain standards so it's more difficult to find places where you'll fit in. Also, as mentioned the determining factors of the way you'll be treated in communities are based on things you cant control, your characteristics will do more speaking and determination for you. So it's not as easy as just "find a better community". Given the way activism is on the internet, many people forget how conservative & hostile the real world actually is. Things like sexism, colorism, racism, ableism, homophobia, lookism etc; play a big role in most communities irl which is why many people seek alt communities online even though those come with issues of their own but to not stray away from the point this is why many people arent fucking with -irl- community shit anymore.

This discource pisses me off because when you constantly receive crap from communities people blame you for it but when you leave you get badgered for not having or being part of community. Communities benefit the priviledged as they uplift those on top, they get to take more from communities & enrich themselves while those at the bottom get fucked over and it's no wonder so many people get fed up and decide to put things into their own hands than risk being in/trusting communities that wont hesitate to risk or end your life over bs. I know that not all communities out there will be horrible but as mentioned finding communities IRL where you'll be accepted as a marginalised person is difficult. Finding equitable communities where everyone is held accountable for their actions, where people genuienly help each other to get by & survive over divide-and-rule politics is difficult.

People complaining about lack of community but wont address the rampant abuse that happens in them tells me they dont care about community spirit as they claim they just want pools of people to exploit and are disguising it under communal spirit & protection. I dont fw communities & sometimes people will tell me i cant do everything alone, no man is an island -good thing i'm a woman then lol- but fr the people this crap comes from are the type of people that make communities suck & i wouldn't want to be in a community with them anyways bc they're horrible & would just exploit. Individualism is on the rise because so many of us marginalised people who grew up in communities realise we're better off alone & idc what anyone says if they feel they're better off within communitities then bet but a lot of the time others are better off alone. And icl one positive of capitalism is that it gives you a chance to rely on communities less & have a more independent lifestyle. Yes there's still a level of people/community engagement but we're not as tightly bound to a community like a small tribe in a village bc tbh i'd probably be dead by now if i had to live & rely on others that way.

Instead of just criticising individualism & guilt tripping people to join communities, if people actually care do inflection about your "communities". Except this wont happen bc this isnt about community spirit but looking for others to exploit which is why it's being aggresively pushed.

[lastoneout]

the whole guilt-tripping language in posts about important topics paired with how I'm still getting bitches in my notes talking about why it's actually good to tell "bad" people to kill themselves continues to prove to me that a lot of people have absolutely no concept of social justice or activism outside of assuming the worst of and then viciously attacking strangers on the internet

[brown-little-robin]

I need to sleep for 70 hours and then maybe I'll feel not evil again

[themyscirah]

"worlds finest" ok but when are they gonna let diana and clark hang out though

[mithrandirl]

thought about writing then decided to just have a panic attack instead haha

[seilon]

no like when I say any answer on the queerest city poll that’s not San Fran is wrong I mean it is factually and historically WRONG

[neverendingford]

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[batsplat]

y'know on almost every metric agassi/sampras was a considerably more amicable rivalry than casey/valentino, but then again you do have to say only one of those rivalries involves one guy being so pissed off at the other guy he fired a ball at his head AFTER they had both retired. and it's not casey/valentino!!

[lee-sanghyeok]

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[drdemonprince]

it's very weird for me because I hear all these stories from my peers about how they were preyed on, about how they were spending all this time stopping older women from killing themselves or being groomed. I recognize that there were people who tried to do this to me, but I generally rebuffed them. it was offline where my mother was abusing me emotionally and (I've come to realize) sexually, gaslighting me into literally thinking she could read my mind, and it was online where I was treated like a real live person with agency who could experience pain

so when I hear my peers saying "oh it's horrible for kids to be on the internet unsupervised, it's all full of groomers," I'm like... the people grooming me were the people outside the computer. the yaoi sex RP at like age 12 was actually a welcome escape because I was treated like a human

Yeah, I'm with you. I had a lot of adult online friends when I was a child and teen and it actually all worked out great for me.

When I was in 4th grade I was active in AOL's video game community, participating in caption contests weekly, and the host of the contest liked my humor so much that he gave me a dedicated spot on the site. He and several of the other games writers were completely supportive and appropriate with me -- they treated me like a funny kid and made me feel like I had something valuable to say, and never crossed boundaries.

After that I was super active on the Invader Zim Obsessives Anonymous forum, which was mostly populated with preteens but was run by a 25 year old woman. She was a big sister figure to many of us, answering our questions about what getting drunk felt like and what it was like to drive a car when we had questions or needed details for the roleplays we were writing. I wrote little raps based on each week's Invader Zim episode and she made a special thread for me to do it and cheered on all our creativity.

I was also really active on virtual spaces like There.com, Gaia Online and Second Life. I went to virtual dance parties with adults as well as teens, traded items, attended game nights and other events, and chatted with them on voice or via text. Sometimes I'd hear an adult talk about their real life problems that I couldn't fully understand but it didn't feel any different from like interacting with a real-world neighbor or friend's parent.

Throughout high school I was on other forums filled with both adults and kids -- the asexuality forums, several Zelda forums, etc. A writer in his 50s even asked me to start contributing to his politics & culture blog when I was 16, after enjoying some of the writing I had about atheism and politics on my Myspace. He & his fellow writers on the blog mentored me as a writer and helped me feel confident in what I had to say and that I had the right to say it.

If I hadn't had all these supportive adults in my life, virtually, I would have been a lot more ignorant about the world, more socially isolated, and I wouldn't have the ironclad confidence that I have in my writerly voice. I am the product of dozens of adults encouraging me, seeing the promise in me, promoting my creative work as something worth paying attention to, and taking my interest in the world seriously.

The only near miss that I had was when I was on Myspace, where an adult man almost groomed a 16-year-old me for a "modeling photoshoot" in his basement. I had a bad feeling and bailed. By then I'd had enough healthy experiences that I knew when something felt off.

I mourn for the old days of the internet, pre social media, and I do not think it harmed me at all to have free and unmonitored internet access. It was never the internet that was the problem anyway -- it was the social conditions that kids are typically trapped inside of.

[catboybiologist]

thanks for your explanation about the roots of transmisogyny and ergo why transandrophia doesnt make sense as a counterpart - found that explanation enlightening.

as a trans man, there’s another piece to the misogyny ive faced that maybe you have thoughts on? since i was raised and treated as a woman for the first two decades of my life, i was often considered less capable or less worthy of awards/promotions/etc just for being a “woman”. now that i pass, i experience male privilege, but underneath that, i still have all the setbacks of 21 years of misogyny (setbacks that my trans sister, for example, never faced. not trying to play oppression olympics here to be clear!). so i have male privilege in the present moment but not the snowball effect that cis men have.

anyway, i appreciate your clear and thoughtful breakdown of how these structures of oppression operate, and am interested in any thoughts you might have on this angle

So yeah, these are thoughts I've grappled with a lot, and honestly get really personal. They're also thoughts that I talk to a lot of cis women about, and is a reason why I think it's important for trans women to have more solidarity with cis women.

Misogyny does affect trans women pre-transition, let's be clear. Vilification of feminity and being branded as "faggotgender" are manifestations of misogyny as well, and trans women will often have this experience. I was, and the series of incidents that I consider my worst interactions with transmisogyny were actually technically pretransiton, when I was questioning and tepidly telling people that.

With that out of the way, that experience is MUCH different than what most transmascs and cis women go through. One compare and contrast I've made with some cis friends is their first experiences with sexualization. I was first nonconsensually approached and followed by a man in public when I was 26 years old. For my cis friends, it was as early as 11.

That does shit to you. That's trauma inducing. I'm not going to deny that it is, because that would be horrifying.

Cis women have also had to deal with exactly what you said: not being taken seriously as a professional for years. Trans women don't necessarily have that until they transition.

The flip side of this, however, is that trans women face misogyny in ways that are far more silent and isolated than cis women.

Alongside their horror stories, my cis friends have also told me of the support: mothers, sisters, friends, community members, older women who protected them, pulled them aside, gave them love and sympathy, attacked the men who targeted them, and gave them advice on how to keep their head up in the face of sexual danger and professional sexism.

Trans women, more often than not, get none of that.

There was no one to defend me or sympathize with me the first time I got sexually assaulted. No one believed me when I noticed people rapidly taking me less seriously after I socially transitioned. No one believed that I was "enough of a woman" to get catcalled.

Slowly, over time, that changed. But it changed because I had open and honest conversations about it with people- and I would say I have a strong network of friends and supporters now, precisely because I've engaged with the different ways this has affected us.

It's all a balance. I'm not doing anything oppression Olympics here, and neither are you! These are important experiences to compare and contrast. In fact, let's take that lack of support I mentioned: the first people I started getting support from, were the same cis women telling me those sorties. Breaking down the barriers, talking openly about how to navigate a misogynist world, and restating that yes, the force we're feeling is misogyny is a super important thing to bring into your day to day life.

Bit of a personal pontification and guilt under the cut.

This cuts at a bit of guilt I've been feeling recently.

I graduated high school as a man.

I got admitted to my undergrad as a man, and started research there as a man.

I got my Bachelor's of Science as a man.

I got my first Masters of Science as a man.

I was admitted to a PhD program as a man.

I transitioned.

I dropped out as a woman.

I've felt a lot of complicated feelings of failure and guilt around this. They're deeply rooted to other parts of my life too personal to talk about on tumblr. But... Yeah. This is all part of it. And yeah, I do see how I was propped up in the past, and how much of that I've lost.

Along the way, I had a lot of silent oppression as well. But I still don't talk about those, and to the world, it still looks like I became a woman and immediately crumpled. What kind of message does that send?

Idk. I know this is dumb. But yeah. Shit sucks.

[dreamingofthewild]

I might get hate for this hot take, but I will say it anyway because there have been a lot of Mystra defence posts lately. Content warning for religion critical ramblings (I feel like I need to preface this with a disclaimer that I am not an atheist).

Tl;dr - I think people struggle to see how Mystra abused Gale because worship is romanticised to a certain extent in fantasy, especially when it comes to the 'good' aligned gods. Yet his story, like Shadowheart's, is a criticism of transactional faith - specifically where the line lies between devotion and exploitation.

Please note that these are just my opinions from what I have observed from the game, and interesting meta posts from other users on this subject. I don't claim to be an expert on religious practices - or an expert on Gale. I am open to discussion, and my intent is not to invalidate other people's opinions or headcanons.

I just always feel the need to defend Gale when people defend Mystra - as he seems to be the only person in the game that people think is exempt from the 'cycle of abuse' theme.

In my opinion defending Mystra by claiming she "has her reasons" for how she treats Gale is essentially the same as the "God has a plan for everyone" response people use when something bad happens. Similarly, justifying Mystra's demand for Gale to use the Orb as her way of "protecting her domain" closely resembles telling someone they've sinned and the only way to redeem themselves is through sacrifice or death. This reasoning follows the same troubling logic: "God is good, God is great, and whatever God asks is justified because we depend on them."

According to this logic, obedience is mandatory, without question or challenge. That logic places worshippers in a one-down position where obedience trumps consent, curiosity, or self-preservation.

Mystra's relationship with Gale was undeniably exploitative, and we should question rather than blindly accept her motivations. She withheld crucial information about the Orb until he became an actual liability, and even then, only to protect herself. She had alternatives - she could have asked him to retrieve the Crown, and he would have - but instead, she told him to die. If you want proof that she is only caring about herself - and not the fate of Faerun - watch what happens when you allow Gale to use the orb in Act 2. I think giving Mystra the crown at the end of the game proves that Gale was never a threat to her.

Gale’s status as her Chosen was contingent upon his obedience and usefulness, making him little more than a tool for her ambitions. Being a Chosen is nothing more than, ''I will give you these powers in exchange for your service to me''. As a deity, Mystra had no genuine need for mortal companionship or intimacy beyond creating emotional dependency and isolation. Encouraging such profound reliance on her praise that Gale would willingly contemplate suicide is morally reprehensible. Gale's acquisition of the orb was rooted in a desperate attempt to impress Mystra (he mentions that he felt like her attentions were slipping from him i.e. he thought the was doing something wrong) - a pursuit she surely recognised and could have prevented if she had just communicated with him. Yet that would require caring about him, and not just what he can do for her.

She calls his actions selfish, when she never told him the true nature of the orb until it was relevant to her, and didn't acknowledge that he was doing so as an act of devotion. He also spends the whole game actively trying to feed the orb so it doesn't detonate and harm others, which is far from being selfish. Yet many people in the fandom call him manipulative for doing so.

Is Gale really selfish for wanting to impress his Goddess, and then for wanting to live?

Gale wasn’t a real threat; he was an example. A warning. Her message was simple: defy me, and I will turn you into a weapon against yourself. His devotion, cultivated since childhood through Elminster’s influence, was used against him. He was isolated, praised, elevated and made dependent on her approval. His powers came at the cost of servitude.

Defences of Mystra’s behaviour can be unsettling. Gale certainly isn't flawless - he is ambitious, sometimes reckless, and lacks wisdom. But perhaps he was too young and vulnerable to shoulder the responsibilities of being a Chosen. Had he not been isolated through his relationship with Mystra, he might have had peers or mentors capable of offering guidance and restraint. If Elminster hadn't entered his life when Gale was merely eight years old, perhaps Gale wouldn't have developed such intense ambitions in the first place. Gale’s character and choices were deeply influenced by an environment that prizes ambition - an attitude common among wizards in the Dungeons & Dragons universe.

If Gale was born during the spell plague then this makes Gale, who admits that he was summoning rabbits as a babe, even more special and worthy of the attention of Mystra.

Mystra's abuse of Gale does meet grooming patterns where - a powerful adult ''builds trust, meets needs, then slowly sexualises the bond before discarding the victim once usefulness wanes''. She was his mentor before his lover and in a line that was removed from the game he says that when she revealed herself to him 'he couldn't say no'. Once again, we have to question why Elminster sought Gale out and he role - intentional or not - that he had to play in putting Gale on this path. Especially since in the lore he was helping Mystra find new Chosen when she returned - and why would he not recommend Gale. Once again, Gale felt that her attentions were slipping, which is why he wanted to impress her, and he was discarded until he was useful to her again (to get the crown).

This dynamic mirrors real-world religious abuse - particularly when leaders tie love, worth, or salvation to sacrifice, silence, and obedience. People in such systems are often taught that suffering is noble, doubt is betrayal, and punishment is deserved. You can see this is Gale's personality - eager to please, terrified of abandonment, and reluctance to set boundaries.

Gale’s arc in BG3 is partly about breaking free of this cycle. He’s forced to confront the reality that Mystra’s love was never truly unconditional or healthy, and he has to define his own self-worth outside of that toxic relationship. That’s a painfully familiar journey for a lot of people who leave (or are cast out of) controlling religious environments- they have to unlearn self-loathing, reclaim their autonomy, and build meaning from within, not from the approval of a distant authority.

Many players miss this interpretation because Mystra is presented as a good-aligned deity, and Gale is imperfect. I feel like religion and worship is romanticised to an extent, and so the good gods are considered to be good in a way that reflects real world zealotry, and so they assume that Gale must’ve done something to deserve her rejection. Rather than reflecting on the ways that the gods exploit mortals and punish any flaws, or human traits such as curiosity.

Her being on the neutral alignment, and Gale having very human imperfections, doesn’t excuse her actions or make the relationship healthy. It just shows how deeply this kind of manipulation can hide in plain sight when cloaked in authority and framed as divine purpose.

Yet, I don't think that people are ready for this conversation yet. Not only does it criticise real world religion, it criticises how religion is often romanticised in video games. The gods are often humanised, and so we attribute human characteristics to them. It's then so easy to justify their actions, or to even side with them.

This is what I mean when I say that Gale's storyline can't be easily translated to the real world. Gale, unlike Shadowheart and Lae'zel, has a direct relationship with his goddess. Lae'zel and Shadowheart were raised in cults, whereas Gale was not.

Unlike them, we don't see the institution that cultivates the environment he grew up in. Which is wizarding institutions and the very nature of chosen's.

As this is popular in DnD, I think it gets romanticised, and so people can't see the problematic aspects of this system. Thus, they feel the need to defend Mystra.

Translating that to the real world is harder because you would have to make Mystra a mortal, where the story then loses the religious aspect. However, their relationship is still a toxic one, defined by uneven power dynamics and the exploitation of those with talent. By recognising that their relationship is toxic, you are then forced to recognise how abusive their relationship is as a God and a mortal.

I firmly believe that fantasy shows us that if the gods were undeniably real and came in many formats, more people would be religious. I know that what you like in fiction doesn't always equal real-world behaviours. However, sometimes you have to ask yourself why you are quick to defend Mystra if you criticise religion in real life.

I am not saying that you should hate Mystra. After all, it's nice to have a morally dubious female character fulfilling a certain role that's usually dominated by men. But I am saying that you should be critical of her and recognise that she was abusive towards Gale.

Just so you know where the 'Mystra haters' are coming from.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

[enbyman]

A lot of people think that being aplatonic means hating social interactions and isolating yourself, and I don't even know where to begin to explain that this is a ridiculous notion. Also having friendships is not the only way we can interact with people.

But anyway. I am an aplatonic person and I don't have any friends (or at least not in the conventional way). But I highly value social interactions and community ties, which is what motivates me to adopt certain political beliefs (anticapitalism). I have a great appreciation for people and I want everyone to live happily and in good conditions, with enough money to survive, etc. I want the common good. I just don't feel inclined towards certain relationships that have been forced upon me. When someone wants to befriend me, I don't feel anything at all. I even forced myself to have friendships, and believe me, it was a phase where I was horrible to myself. I don't think anyone should be forced into relationships when the connection (or better, attraction) isn't there.

Again, this does not mean = isolation. It is a solitude that I have chosen and that actually makes me have healthier relationships with myself and with other people (it turns out that when I do not force myself, I feel better about other people, how surprising). Solitude is not isolation. You can lack certain emotional connections or not have emotional connections at all, and still value the people you share the world with.

[oh-no-its-bird]

Raise your hand if you want elaborate Hatake warring states drama set maybe 40-50 years before Konoha was founded to help explain/elaborate on the start of the Hatake's downfall + provide cultural context for why they value their children so much !!!

Just kidding !! You're getting it anyways !!

Ok, so.

The Hatake's used to be made up of several small packs, ranging in sizes from 20-40 people, with a couple especially large or small packs here and there, as well as a few individual wanderers. But there were a good number of packs all together, so their overall numbers were like, a good few hundred.

Each pack was nicknamed after a part of a wolf + a direction. "The western fang", "the southern tail" (not to be confused with the eastern tail) "the northern paw", etc. The joke there was that together, they all make one wolf

Packs also had individual heads— there was no one overall singular clan head of all the Hatake, and they mostly operated independently of each other, but (most) would try and keep in contact to sure they at least remained on the same general page (they did have a few outliers, and honestly a lot of packs were just kind of... bad at keeping in contact. Some packs were much closer than others, while others were much more distant)

Whenever they needed to do any sort of political maneuvering, they'd converge, and the individual pack heads would choose a spokesman to represent them for the specific matter.

But about 40 years ago, just around when Hatake Haruka was born, there was a very sharp decline in numbers. The problem? Well, there were a few of them, but one very big specific one: They were being targeted by bloodline hunters. Hard.

So basically, fun story, there was this group of bloodline hunters specifically invested in wild clans. They'd try to kill as many as they can (to drive up scarcity) and capture any they deemed as 'tamable' that they'd then lock up and try and beat into submission in a facility nicknamed by those trapped there as the dog pound.

( This also relates to my previous talk about like. The fetishization of shinobi, particularly wild clans, and how they're often viewed as a status symbol. The wilder/more dangerous of a reputation they/their clan has, the more impressive it is for someone to have control over them )

So anyways like. The Hatake were very much on the list of targeted shinobi clans.

Also on the list were the Orochi, actually, which is also part of why, by the time konoha came around, there were only 3 left willing to step out into the sun. (There may have been more somewhere out there, but they'd refused to leave their hiding places)

Other targeted clans included the Hoshigaki, Inuzuka, and a couple other unnamed more "animalistic" clans that would be virtually extinct by the time of modern Naruto (in large part because of this entire mess, actually)

The Hatake's were the hunters primary target though and made up the majority of those they'd captured / killed.

The Hatake's nature to wander was used against them, as packs were systematically picked off— the bloodline hunters already had several stolen shinobi among them, as well as very powerful backing from some political powers which helped to feed and arm them well.

The packs would only communicate with each other so often, with some packs being more isolated than others, so it actually took a little while for some of them to actually realize what was happening— which meant even that more of them were taken by surprise

By the time Haruka was around 10, her pack (the western fang) had been very thoroughly picked through, and were down most of their shinobi.

They ended up making the very dangerous treck across Iron, continuing to be picked at every step of the way, in an effort to unite with the southern fang, which had already picked up several other stragglers, and merge into one pack

(At the time, most of the remaining packs were doing something similar— scrambling to try and merge, to try and gain some sort of power in numbers. Very few managed to make it)

At some point in all this mess, young Haruka herself actually ended up falling victim to the bloodline hunters, getting tossed into the pound. She'd be stuck there for some years, and ultimately her position inside of it would help the Hatake's destroy the dog pound once and for all.

The battle that did it in for the pound was a big one. Lots of blood, lots of fire, lots of death and destruction, all that good stuff. Everyone involved in the attack (and the Hatake were not alone in the battle, there were multiple other clans invested in seeing these bastards put down for good) was out to turn the entire place into a crater of dust.

In the end, there were no survivors on the bloodline hunters side. The pound was absolutely demolished, and it's safe to say that any remaining bloodline hunters in the area got the message loud and clear: "Don't fucking steal blood from the Hatake."

—but it also killed... a lot of Hatake. A lot, a lot. The entire events of the past couple decades did.

Afterwords, a lot of effort was put into keeping quiet on exactly what had gone down within the pound and how bad things had become for multiple clans involved in the whole debacle. In general, unless the clan was directly involved in the matter, few people— shinobi or otherwise —knew all he details of their little war.

After all, no clan wanted to be perceived as weak or vulnerable

So then Haruka becomes head of her pack somewhere in her 20s. But by that point there's like. 2 actual "packs" left, and maybe a sparce handful of individual Hatake's. And their numbers are just really low and they're having a hard time with birthing in general, so their numbers continue to be whittled down with each passing year.

It's also very important to note that this whole mess is also part why the Hatake's are so violently private.

While it was a known fact that the clan had taken a hit, no one actually knows how great of a blow they'd taken, or how many Hatake are left.

And no Hatake is willing to give that game up, because the number? Well, it's lower than any of the estimates other clans have made. They are actively dying and terrified that anyone will find out and try to once again use their isolation and numbers against them

They're trying very, very hard to hide it, and the big show of strength they flexed in that big final battle totally helped to cover their asses

By the time Konoha is founded, there are only 2 Hatake packs left— Haruka's pack, which was left with only 21 Hatake; And another unnamed one, somewhere way out west, who they lost contact with years ago.

So then skipping forward some decades, to only some years before Konoha's founding.

In Here Before and After Me there's a moment where Hashirama says,

The rare few times a child had been taken, the Hatake's had kicked up such a fuss that they'd heard of the blood baths even in Fire Country. The stories reached as far as Wind country, if you asked in the right places.

^ This is actually directly referencing an event where, sometime recently (within the last 10 years of the fic, so within ~13ish years of Konoha being founded) some idiots tried to take a Hatake child.

And the Hatake, being VERY thoroughly traumatized as a collective by the events of. Everything I said above. Went absolutely scorched earth "tear their fucking hearts out and put their heads on a pike" batshit insane on them.

Just, pulling out all the stops, total slaughter. They honestly went more than a bit overboard (but also not really, all things considering)

They were NOT about to risk another dog pound situation. They did not want to risk anyone even THINKING it was safe to so much as LOOK at them wrong. They wanted to send a message to any bloodline thief who thought they were "weak" enough to pick off (again)

And, you know, I mean, it did work. So.

Anyways this entire event lasted like, a couple decades actually. Anywhere from 20 to 30 years, with a couple lulls here and there. (the hunting technically began a decade before Haruka was born, it just hit its height around her birth)

It was a very traumatic couple of decades, and left a strong lasting impact on the Hatke's as a whole, culturally.

It's a very big part of why the Hatake are so insanely protective of their young. A good few decades of being actively hunted and preyed upon, having their kids stolen, watching other clans also lose their own children— it instilled a very healthy dose of ✨ child shaped generational trauma ✨

(It also came with a few other lasting impacts and hang ups, especially within the few still living Hatake who escaped the dog pound. Of which there are (as of writing this) three)

Fun fact! The best way to get adopted by a Hatake (particularly the older ones) is to actually specifically have them rescue you from bloodline hunters, bc it activates a primal protective rage in them instilled by years of war against those bastards

The Hatake's biggest secret being their totally shitty position also makes for some fun scenes when they finally join Konoha and sort of have to expose themselves along the way. They are making the long journey across Iron and into Fire country, and because they're taking the whole clan + all of their things in proper caravan, they have to stop at every other territory to explain themselves and where they're going and why

They are getting SO many stares from just about everyone they run into

(This is the most Hatake's anyone has ever seen, but also... Doesn't it feel like there's barely any of them...? Didn't they say that they're moving the whole clan to the new ninja village? Where's the rest of them? Is there a second caravan coming soon, or...?)

Then they finally get to Konoha and its like, !!! Welcome !!! We're so excited you're here! Where... are the rest of you?

It also makes them choose to come to Konoha so much more of a Thing™ for them, because this is genuinely a hail mary "fuck it we ball" show of trust for them. They are being forced to show their full hand and reveal the secret that they've kept so carefully guarded for the past few decades— that they're dying.

(Meanwhile, Tobirama, who is one of like THE only people ever to visit the Hatake's while still being aligned to another clan is conspicuously avoiding eye contact w Hashirama, who is sending him a very alarmed ??????)

Anyways, few individual character notes:

Haruka would actually meet and become close to Hatake Maru and the Hoshigaki girl who'd one day be Tetsuo's mother in the pound. The three became friends and in the end, managed to escape only because of each other

Maru was from one of the smaller, individual 3/2 person packs, and had been training to become a samurai before captured. Being in the pound actually only strengthened his resolve to be a swordsman, and he'd often chant the core tenants of the samurai's way to try and calm/center himself

Haruka was also captured with her brother, but he would not survive the pound and died fairly early on into their residency there. Their sister, Tobirama and Hashirama's mother, was never captured and managed to escape relatively unscathed.

While all Hatake's have the chance to earn their clan stripes via leading their first hunt when around 14/15, Haruka was trapped in the dog pound at 14/15. As such, that 'first hunt' she led as an adult ended up invertedly being the attack on the pound which she helped to lead. The stripes it earned her are known as 'mountain stripes,' and are meant to symbolize an unshakable, unstoppable iron will. Deeming her an immovable force of nature, all on her own

By the time of Konoha, Haruka is actually all that remains of what was once the western fang pack. The last other member from that pack (the twins' father, actually) died to sickness the winter before Konoha was founded. She's actually decently fucked up about it but hides it incredibly well.

Uhh final thoughts:

Hatake Haruka, age 18— she got a hundred problems and bloodline hunters are 90 of em

[zeropro]

Comment Section: Sunstorm edition

Wow! Thanks for the analysis and thoughts, I really appreciate it!

I agree, Starscream is allowed to not want to associate with Sunstorm at all, but he still shouldn't be mean about it haha. It's not like he told Sunstorm to not follow him around and was ignored. Sure Sunstorm should pick up on the hints that he isn't wanted but lbr he was raised by Shockwave in isolation, kid’s a little bit socially inept XD

My Sunstorm isn't as crazy religious as he is in the Dreamwave comics, but he is religious enough to make people like Starscream uncomfortable, especially when as you said he uses religious language to try and connect with Starscream. I personally like the idea that Sunstorm doesnt actually think the old stories are literally true, but he finds comfort in them and so chooses to view his life through that lens. He's more of a philosopher than a religious zealot, and ultimately he is more interested in observing and understanding than converting or preaching. Still, it's one of his special interests so he will talk about it if given the chance, and it definitely makes a lot of people uncomfortable for the reasons you've stated.

Love the observation about Starscream not being used to forgiveness. He don't trust like that, no sirreeeee.

Also it was Rodimus who pushed for the group therapy and Starscream def agreed to it, but he hasn’t really been taking any of the therapy sessions seriously. He was using them as a way to make people like him, like look I can behave, I can do your little therapy stuff, I can pretend to be emotionally and mentally stable, im totally working on myself even tho theres nothing wrong with me and even if there was something wrong with me it’s so deeply rooted theres no point in working on it anyway i mean what? It's all very calculated. Maybe he decided to vent about Sunstorm during their session because he thought it would make the kid leave him alone? Haha, unfortunately for him the opposite happened.

thanks again for your thoughts, hope you’re feeling better by now

If only Starscream could communicate his feelings like a normal person haha.

I like the way you put this. The situation is mad uncomfortable for Starscream yeah. And thanks! I hope you like where it goes.

When I wrote Sunstorm’s dialogue my intention was for starscream to feel validated in a way that he isnt comfortable with but doesnt altogether hate, but then a few people pointed out how it comes off like he’s straight up forgiving him for having trauma (hes forgiving him for saying mean things to him!) and like, yeah starscream wouldnt appreciate feeling patronised x3 Prolly pissed him off. But like, maybe a little bit of the intent made it through? I wanted Starscream to feel seen, but being seen is terrifying when you feel like theres nothing but broken ugliness underneath. so i guess starscream just ends up feeling judged. But also…accepted? Starscream does a confusion.

Starscream has had like three therapy sessions and isnt making any notable progress because he’s more concerned with how he’s being perceived than actively working on himself rn. I actually think this is fine, change doesnt happen quickly. we’ve introduced starscream to an avenue of help and as calculated as it was he did still try it out. I think the seed was planted if he ever does decide he wants to do better. and In his defense, the focus rn for everyone is what do we do about Megatron’s sudden return

lmao this made me chuckle. I wouldnt say he held composure even at Megatron’s worst, but yeah he’d def be frustrated whenever he accidentally goes mask off around the autobots.

That would be very cute, but starscream isnt quite there yet XD. not that anyone would want to hurt sunstorm, he’s like the best boy!

Starscream might worry about Sunstorm exploding, but only because he doesnt want to get caught in the explosion. after therapy, he still couldnt care less if Sunstorm deactivated, but he at least sees him as a person he dislikes rather than an abomination that shockwave made. so…yay progress?

He’s radioactive, so it’s a valid concern! Not that he will explode, he does have control over his outlier ability.

i imagine Rodimus is chill with ex decepticons? he went on a gay roadtrip space adventure with his best friend who is an ex decepticon and they met cyclonus who is an ex decepticon and later picks up sunstorm who is a decepticon affiliated seeker. i think as long as you prove to him you can be chill then he’ll be chill. tbh I think he just wants people to like him.

and It’s not that he doesnt mind if sunstorm blows up, he just has so much confidence in sunstorm not blowing up he doesnt think its a concern!

yeah since his spark is radioactive it hurts passively all the time. it hurts more when he pulls it in and away from others, and the pain spikes when he activates his outlier ability to actually use it, but it hurts less after it’s expelled. part of the reason why he spends so much time in a cr chamber while at shockwave’s lab is because it syphons his energy output and alleviates the pain. a win win for shockwave as he uses that energy to power his lab.

in his defence, he didnt make him radioactive on purpose, that just sorta happened

haha I’m glad y’all really liked that joke XD

of course he has, who hasnt met sunstorm! oh right, megatron…

i wouldn't recommend it. it will burn

TC has seen Sunstorm around like some cryptid, and Bumblebee prolly explained the situation after Sunstorm started staying at autobot base. TC is probably also creeped out by Sunstorm’s existence, but something about his bright eyed apperance reminds him of Starscream before the war…

Skywarp just sees him as some other guy, he’s like not bothered at all. he’s curious about him in that there hasnt been a new seeker in generations. as far as he’s concerned, Sunstorm is literally nothing like Starscream haha

Sunstorm feels bad for TC, and he empathises with Skywarp’s malfunctioning outlier ability.

Im so hecking sorry XD Sunstorm is like basically not in IDW1 at all (he shows up once in the background, and then the second time he’s in the comic arcee hecking murders him pfpfpf). If you want sunstorm content I think he features more in Wings universe and the Dreamwave continuity. I havent read them tho so I don’t actually know haha

but like, aah thanks so much, I really appreciating your kind words. and also thank you everyone who sent me asks and comments and tags. I legit had no idea this project would turn into a whole thing but I’m having fun so I’m glad you all are enjoying it too.

[lordofdestructionm]

Viktor and Elsa

A secret passion?

Viktor Vasko and Elsa Bastion (formerly Arbogast) clearly share a connection. This has been clear since the Defiance flashback

This perhaps shouldn't be that much of a surprise. They are both veterans of the Great War, they have both experienced and still bear the inner scars that come with the tragedy and brutality of war and the suffering it brings.

Elsa in her capacity as a nurse, who no doubt saw all manner of mangled and broken men, and Viktor the muddy, bloody, living hell that was the front line of the trenches. It only makes sense that such people would be able to understand each other in ways others wouldn't.

Elsa has no doubt spent plenty of time treating wounded soldiers and seen the emotional anguish, and so would be able to see through that sour intimidating facade that keeps most people at arms length. While Viktor could find reassurance in the company of a kind and compasionate woman like Elsa

But many fans have found themselves wondering if there could be more to it than that.

Viktor spent some time staying at the arbogast household, and it seems in that time Elsa got to know Viktor very well, learning more about his life than even Ivy, someone that can approach Viktor much easier than most as a stand in daughter to him, and even to the extent she knows Viktor would never have agreed to let her put herself in danger

Viktor for his part may also feel more than just friendly towards her, if the face he makes when she is finally able to get through to him by phone to inform him about Ivy putting herself in danger is anything to go by.

Having been in a pit of deep despair over the memory of his far away daughter, plus the poor state of his health with compromised knees and a hole in his chest, hearing from her seems to make that normally scowling face soften

But before we all jump on that bandwagon and "Viktor x Elsa" become our new Lackadaisy otp, we have to consider the jolly British elephant in the room.

Bobby Bastion

Bobby is another war veteran and it was though their service that they met just after the war and later married.

He appears to be a very jolly and affable chap (relative to most bootleggers anyway), which may well be what drew Elsa to him in the first place. Someone who could counter her melancholy from the dark times they went through

He seems to be very aware and considerate of his wife's relative melancholy, by Elsa's own admission leaving a very lucrative funeral trade in the big city to move too a small quiet community that offered little business but gave Elsa the peace and quiet she needed (like Viktor it seems she hates "noise, noise, noise" thanks to the war).

Their involvement in bootlegging in the first place it seems was to compensate for this and provide the income to sustain this relative isolation

But despite this, perhaps their diffent mindset has become more of a barrier between them rather than something that compliments each other?

As the family illustration suggests, Bobby is relatively content and able to smell the flowers, while Elsa remains haunted. Bobby's humour also seems to have little effect on Elas's mood

Could it be that Elsa would be drawn to someone like Viktor, someone who suffers from the same trauma as her and may be more willing to admit to the pain, than a husband who despite the best of intentions is trying to just smooth over the problem? Quite possible

But even with that strong connection and bond between them, even if there is a mutual spark, does that suggest an actual affair? That's the big question here.

While arguably not handling his wife's troubles in the best way, Bobby seems to be a loving husband doing his best for his wife who he cares for deeply. Is Elsa the type of person who would cheat on her kind husband for helping in the "wrong way"?

Plus Bobby not only shows no sign of concern about Viktor staying with them and being around his wife, but, (despite his brother in laws interuption) mentions that he was very grateful for Viktor's help and actually saw him as almost "part of the family"

Is this a case of "ignorance is bliss"? Does he simply blindly trust his wife so much that the possibility doesn't even occur to him, or does he know her well enough to be certain that infidelity is something she simply would not do?

But this is all speculation at this point. What do you think?

Is poor Bobby blind to what happened under his own roof? Is it a matter of two people feeling an attraction but tragically unable to act on it due to circumstances? Or is it just an innocent matter of two wounded souls with shells and screams still ringing in their ears recognizing the scars on each other and offering some understanding?

Thanks to @ursiday whose Viktor and Elsa art got my over analysing brain juices flowing again ;)