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explaining-homestuck · 5 months

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can you please explain quadrents (specifically moirailegince? i see alot of people dont seem to get it and id love to have a post to link back to when i explain it instead of having to go through homestuck)

Ah, tackling the big one first.

Homestuck itself has its own explanation of quadrants, which starts on Page 2392. However, I'll take a stab at simplifying the explanation here, although I may take direct quotes from the comic.

Humans have only one form of romance. And though we consider it a complicated subject, [...] it is ultimately a superficial slice of what trolls consider the full body of romantic experience. Our concept of romance [...] is still just [...] a single, linear concept.

(I guess I will be taking direct quotes from the comics.)

This concept of human love is generally represented with the symbol <3, or ❤️. However, trolls, in keeping with the Midnight Crew's full set of playing card theming, have four different types of romance, to fit the four suits.

<3/♥️, Hearts; <3</♠️, Spades; c3</♣️, Clubs; and <>/♦️, Diamonds.

This creates 4 Quadrants of romance, a term that is often used to refer to love and romantic entanglement.

Here, Nepeta's helpful diagram shows how these quadrants are related.

Hearts, the Flushed Quadrant, and Diamonds, the Pale Quadrant, are grouped as "Red Romance". These are the quadrants more associated with what we would possibly call positive feelings.

Meanwhile, Spades the Caliginous Quadrant (often called "Pitch"), and Clubs, the Ashen quadrant, are grouped as "Black Romance", more associated with negative feelings (to a degree, the divide isn't as simple as that.)

Furthermore, Hearts and Spades are Concupiscent Quadrants, and Diamonds and Clubs are Conciliatory Quadrants. These terms relate to the purpose of these quadrants within troll society: Concupiscent (which has meanings of sexual desire) Quadrants are related directly to the reproductive cycle of the troll species. Meanwhile, Conciliatory (meaning to placate of pacify) Quadrants, quote:

"would be more closely likened to platonic relationships by human standards"

Note: this does not make them necessarily platonic relationships in troll society. Pale and Ashen relationships remain romantic, and there may possibly also be sexual elements (not that these are shown or implied in the comic, nor will they be theorised upon here).

The comic makes it clear that while many parallels can be drawn between troll romance and certain human relationships (for example, "frenemies" or "QPRs"), these relationships are different from troll ones, as trolls are driven by primal forces to engage in their 4 types of romance, in the same way we do with our one (This is, of course, a gross oversimplification of the vast spectrum of the human experience of attraction and possible lack thereof, but it's a fair rough analogy.)

Let us now move on to the first and easiest to understand quadrant:

♥️: The Flushed Quadrant

The Flushed Quadrant is (almost) exactly the same as human romantic and/or sexual attraction. For our purposes, ♥️=❤️.

While the trolls have no concept of marriage, and don't generally use the terms boyfriend/girlfriend, the term for a partner in the Flushed Quadrant is a Matesprit, meaning the two trolls have formed a Matespritship.

The given example within Homestuck canon at the time of a Matespritship was Dad Egbert and Mom Lalonde. Several other well known examples are Rose Lalonde and Kanaya Maryam, Latula Pyrope and Mituna Captor, and Jade Harley and Davesprite (during the Yellow Yard trip, before John's 15th birthday). Many others exist, as well as flushed crushes (Kanaya Maryam for Vriska Serket, Nepeta Leijon for Karkat Vantas, etc.)

Note: Humans can take part in Quadrant relationships outside of the Flushed Quadrant, though some trolls thought this impossible.

Next, we explain

♠️: The Pitch (Caliginous) Quadrant

The simplest explanation of Pitch is always "romance, but with hate instead of love". People often find that hard to understand, but it's a trope that appears throughout media. One of the best examples I've found is LEGO Batman and LEGO Joker in the LEGO Batman Movie.

However, it's much more than simply "hate love". A Kisemesistude is more akin to a fierce arch-rivalry, with a troll competing against their Kismesis to outfox, outsmart, or simply defeat them.

The given example for a Kismesistude is Jack Noir and the Black Queen. Another example is Vriska Serket and Eridan Ampora's black romance, which fell apart before they started the game, Marquise Spinerette Mindfang and Orphaner Dualscar's Kismesistude, which they were mimicking, or Terezi Pyrope and Gamzee Makara's relationship in the pre-retcon timeline.

Note: no successful Kismesistudes exist within the main body of Homestuck: Vriska broke things off with Eridan and likewise Mindfang with Dualscar, and Gamzee was physically and mentally abusing Terezi. All canon kismesistudes have either not budded, or ended with one of the two Kismesis dumping the other, or attempting to kill them. (John and Terezi doesn't count in this case, as its continuation only exists in the Epilogues, a dubiously canon source.) This does not, however, mean all Kismesistudes are doomed to fail.

There are also numerous Pitch crushes, such as Eridan Ampora on Rose Lalonde, Gamzee Makara on Dave Strider (or possibly the Insane Clown Posse, it's unclear) and the aforementioned John Egbert for Terezi Pyrope and vice versa.

Now, it wouldn't be a Homestuck post without an Intermission (possibly the first of several!)

🪣: The Bucket Intermission

I'll keep this short.

Flushed and Pitch pairings can, through undescribed processes, produce a combination of genetic material, which is then collected in a Filial Pail (bucket) by Imperial Drones to be fed to the Mother Grub, who then makes all the baby trolls from the gametes, probably.

Hussie also wrote a short paragraph about dominant and recessive genes which makes me think they know less about dominant and recessive genes than the writers of Metal Gear Solid, but that's not that important right now.

If a troll is unable to provide suitable generic materials, they will be culled by the drone, meaning finding concupiscent quadrantmates is a key goal for a troll's survival.

Anyway, back to romance, with

♣️: The Ashen Quadrant

The clubs symbol notably has 3 circles, which relates to the way this relationship (the most misunderstood one, in my experience) works.

Clubs relationships, or Auspisticisms, are formed when a third troll sees a pair involved in a feud, and decides to step in to mediate, becoming their Auspistice. The purpose of an Auspistice is not the mediate and grow a Pitch relationship, as it's often portrayed, but in fact prevent it from developing.

This is because trolls often feud with each other, causing possible Kismesistudes, but (conventionally) troll romance is monogamous in-quadrant, and having two or more Kismesis would be considered infidelity in conventional troll society, as well as that too many Kismesistudes can increase danger in troll society, and mis-matched rivalries can cause trolls to be stuck in relationships they do not like.

An Auspisticism is often defined by the attraction specifically of the Auspistice *toward* the rival pair, and their wish to mediate them. This is known as an Ashen Crush, much like above Pitch and Flushed Crushes.

Examples of known Auspisticisms within canon Homestuck are Kanaya Maryam between Vriska Serket and Tavros Nitram, Doc Scratch between Spades Slick and Snowman (though Scratch's intervention was more driven by accomplishing his own goal of having Slick kill Snowman), and Jade Harley between Bec Noir and the Peregrine Mendicant in [S] Collide, though this ended in failure.

Next, let's move onto

♥️🔁♠️: Quadrant Vacillation

Another known occurrence within troll society and its romantic framework is the Vacillation of two trolls between multiple quadrants. While canon only gives examples of Flushed/Pitch Vacillation, it's stated that this is but the most common type of Vacillation.

This occurs because troll relationships are incredibly malleable. To quote from the comic again:

In many cases, one party will have red feelings while the other has black. But it will often be the case that one party's feelings will swap to match the other's, since there is no quadrant which naturally accommodates such a disparity. But thereafter, it's not uncommon for the two to toggle between red and black in unison now and then. These scenarios naturally result in both red and black infidelities.

This is stated to be a key reason for the existence of the Ashen and Pale quadrants, to prevent such infidelities. Auspistices are intended to be able to stabilise these turbulent relationships, but failure to uphold this role can lead to more instability and chaos within the mixed relationship.

Equius Zahhak and Aradiabot are shown as the key example of Vacillation, caused by Aradia's distain of the former for his rudeness and the fact he planted a chip inside her robot body that would make her love him, and Equius's attraction to the latter paired with his somewhat fetishisation of the caste system (a story for another time). Vriska Serket and Tavros Nitram's relationship is also mentioned, with Vriska's continued mimicking of Mindfang pushing her to meld Tavros into a fitting Matesprit, while at the same time expressing distain for his unwillingness to broach a relationship, and his wimpish behaviour. This is also further complicated by Tavros genuinely being attracted to Vriska, but too scared of her to commit to a relationship, and their Auspistice Kanaya Maryam's flushed crush on Vriska also, leading to her slacking her duties so to speak.

And now, we move onto the final quadrant, the specifically requested one:

♦️: The Pale Quadrant

Pale relationships are called a Moirallegiance, in which two trolls are Moirails. This quadrant can be liked to soulmates, but with a more platonic (yet still romantic) lean.

Moirails, also called Palemates, exist with the purpose to calm down and pacify their Pale partner. Trolls are (said to be) inherently an angry, violent species, with some being dangerous to themselves or society if left alone. Pale attraction exists for a troll of such tendencies to find a partner who can pacify them (positively), and for even-tempered trolls to seek out those who would benefit from their assistance.

A perfect Moirallegiance is said to consist of two trolls who mutually pacify and assist each other, whose emotional profiles fit together well, helping them to form other relationships in different quadrants with ease.

Moirallegiance is often confused by trolls for platonic friendship, and vice versa, and furthermore, Flushed attraction may be confused for Pale. The Flushed quadrant is said to be "more red" than the Pale one by Eridan Ampora, and likewise the Pitch quadrant "blacker" than the Ashen one, as one might expect from their describing colours.

The most well known Moirallegiance in Homestuck would of course be Meowrails, Nepeta Leijon and Equius Zahhak. Others include the Draconian Dignitary and Bec Noir, Karkat Vantas and Gamzee Makara, and Feferi Peixes and Eridan Ampora (although Eridan held a Flushed crush for Feferi, similar to the one Kanaya held for Vriska during her Moirallegiance with her).

Finally, the an important thing that Moirail can do for their partner, in cases of both dire need of calming down, and a lighter gesture of aid, is the Shoosh Pap, performed by Karkat Vantas to Gamzee Makara to calm him down from his murderous rampage at the end of Act 5 Act 2. Karkat says:

IT'S JUST A TROLL THING, HUMANS WOULDN'T GET IT.

You would think this is everything, and it almost is, but Hussie's explanation forgoes one particular part of troll romance that is only later elaborated on by Karkat:

♥️♠️♥️♠️: Group Vacillation

Um.

You see.

Do you get it?

I think the diagram is clear enough.

Ok, we're done here.

Edit: it is worth noting that this system of quadrants is actually quite limited, both in terms of actual occurrences in the comic, and how it is often portrayed in fanfiction and fanworks, as (due to its time of writing) does not take into account polyamory in the same quadrant.

Edit 2: Redrom also has nothing canonically related to "pity". Saying "I pity you" to a Moirail or Matesprit in place of "I love you" is not a normal thing for trolls; it's based in a model that exclusively Karkat Vantas came up with and talks about, because of his repressed emotional state; he believes there can only be two emotions, hate and pity, and all other emotions are derived from the two. It's not an accurate representation of the workings of troll romance, only a reflection of his state within the comic.

If you want to know *all* about *all* canon examples of *all* four quadrants, or explanation of the other species's versions of romance, those will have to come at a later date. I could also probably make diagrams. But that will have to do for now, I'm afraid. If you find any inaccuracies that aren't about the spelling of Moirallegiance, (trust me, even the comic doesn't know how to spell it), please let me know! I can also probably answer any questions or clarifications in any reblogs, asks, or replies, but they won't necessarily be this extensive.

(Oh and also if anyone wants me to explain that one gif from the section, I can do that too. You know the one.)

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quad-sthetics · 1 year

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The original posts reblogs have been turned off, reposting this for archival purposes

#quadrants posts #psii.png #moirallegiance #kismessitude #auspisticism #matespritship

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lime-bloods · 2 months

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i would LOVE a post on that. i have been thinking extensively about pitch romance and how deeply, cruelly toxic it is and how quadrants are in general. a lot of stuff is based in karkat's pov on it (and karkat is like. sooo biased love the guy to death but he is SO BIASED!!!) but sometimes it's in the narration and the existence of auspisticism & the fact that quadrants potentially existed on beforus trips me up as well...

this is a great question! and I suppose "the beginning" is probably the best place to start for a post about this, after all.

it's important to be aware that when we think of Beforus as a planet that is "good", this is not necessarily because it is wholly good by our own standards or even by the author's standards, but because it is good within Homestuck's philosophy, that the "good" is that which is "true" or "real", rather than what is "true" necessarily being good. to put this in another way - which I've only just recently begun to fully understand myself - Beforus being free of Lord English's corruption doesn't mean it's free of problems, just that it's problems are "real" problems, as opposed to fictional problems; they're reflective of problems we have on Earth.

pivotally, Beforus still has systems of gendered oppression, and in that sense it's clear how the intrinsically gendered violence of Alternia's quadrants would find their own place in Beforan society. it's just that in this context, these dynamics arise as part of complex sociological phenomena over thousands of years and aren't put in place solely for a specific purpose by an omnipotent time god, and as such won't necessarily manifest themselves in the exact same ways, or necessarily be "as bad". as with so many things in Homestuck, it's the idea at the core of the concept that's most important; kismesissitude and matespritship on Beforus should be recognisably the same idea as the quadrants on Alternia, just as they are recognisably the same "quadrants" practised by cherubs and humans, despite all of these arising from vastly different and largely disconnected cultural contexts.

the tendency for the same ideas to reliably bubble up to the surface again and again in different contexts is a central law of Homestuck's metaphysics: in the words of the reliable Doc Scratch, "there is essentially nothing new in paradox space." and it's relevant that Scratch is the one to relate this truism, because therein lies a crucial different in connotation between "storyteller" and "narrator"; it is not a narrator's job to invent new ideas, but rather to spin their own interpretation of what has already happened. this is why Scratch's ancestor stories are "troll fanfction"; he's writing an AU of characters who already lived on Beforus. we can only assume that, in the same vein, in "creating" Alternia's quadrants Scratch merely took those parts of Beforus that were convenient to his vision and amplified them to be all-important. (alchemy, as described by 9th century author Jabir ibn Hayyan, was the transmutation of one material into another by manipulating qualities that already existed within all matter, pushing some into the background and pulling others into the fore.)

it's easy to think of auspisticism, meanwhile, as unique among the quadrants in that it superficially seems to provide a service that is beneficial to all involved, and certainly towards Act 6 a lot of the children seem very interested in interpreting it this way. but in the narrative context in which it's introduced to us, I think it's clearly much more about control. as far as the ashen quadrant is concerned, what happens to the participants themselves is inconsequential; a successful ashen quadrant merely upholds the social idea of monogamy by stemming "widespread black infidelity." which is on its own a patently absurd idea: fidelity enforced by the race who practice punishable-by-death polygamy in order to mix all of their genes together in a single pool?! yes, it makes sense within the context of a nonsensically complicated alien reproductive process, but the nonsensical complicatedness of it all is entirely the point; the quadrants are designed to intersect in ways that not even the trolls themselves could ever fully understand. just as it's often impossible for a troll to distinguish between feelings that are platonic, pale or red, when Eridan attempts to "spark a rivalry wit)( [Sollux] to get [Feferi] to auspisticize [...] and pull us out of our quadrant" it's "t)(e oldest and lamest trick in t)(e book" precisely because it's the quadrant working exactly as intended! all of the quadrants serve to make relationships messier under the guise of making them more structured because messy relationships make for a great story, which is Alternia's fundamental purpose.

I think the Karkat point is worthy of another post deconstructing all the quadrants more broadly, because a lot of different things have been said about it already and it's worth getting into, but straightforwardly I think it must be understood that Karkat and "the narration" have fundamentally the same bias; the narrative wants us to take Alternia seriously because Alternia as a machine is a construction of the narrative for the purposes of the narrative, and Karkat wants us to take Alternia seriously because he's a massive stooge who has made his whole life's purpose out of buying into that narrative.

#homestuck #analysis #quadrants #romance #beforus #auspisticism #discussion

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relaxxattack · 1 month

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Can you elaborate on what you meant with that ashen post? What do quadrant misunderstandings have to do with Eridan

oh my god, absolutely.

first of all, the fandom seemed to take eridan at his word when he said moirallegiance was a lesser romance akin to a friendzone; that's its own problem.

but in relation to blackrom: the toxic, horrible behavior that eridan displays in his flirting is often taken by fans to prove that kismesissitude is an inherently abusive, unnatural quadrant that the empire forces young trolls into. but this is incorrect.

as stated by multiple characters in-text AND by andrew hussie later: this behavior is not pitch at all. it's ashen flirting.

feferi calls out how transparent this bullshit is instantly. terezi, too, gets caught up in this when eridan decides to drag her into it, but she is also not having his shit. both of them read him for how fake he is. and that's not even going into how completely uninterested sollux was in this “rivalry”.

hussie, in the commentary, also states that eridan's obviously outrageous behavior is basically textbook for an ashen solicitation.

i feel that it's also worth mentioning that when eridan had a real kismesis, his relationship with her was amiable, and they even supported each other as teammates and allies in their campaigns. the second she gets bored of him, eridan starts pretending their relationship is volatile and going to “become murderous” to get kanaya to auspistize for him… sound familiar?

and now here is what eridan looks like when he's actually pitch flirting. notice how despite his obvious assholery, eridan also tries to treat her with weird respect and pay her compliments? there's a noticeable difference between how eridan treats someone he actually has a pitch thing for and how he treats sollux.

eridan is intentionally going way over the line, to goad people into stopping him. i discussed this before in reference to vriska/kanaya/tavros, but trolls actually seemingly don't want their relationships to become unpleasant. they have an entire quadrant dedicated to intervening if they think a relationship isn't healthy. and the relationship going extremely toxic is attributed to a failure of auspisticism, not a natural facet of pitch romance.

this is what eridan's treatment of sollux is. it's unhealthy, by troll standards. which is saying something! it says that trolls have standards for blackrom; standards that make them think trolls like vriska, gamzee and eridan are going too far.

so that's what my funny little image was trying to encapsulate. that fandom has such a blind spot when it comes to ashen relationships that it makes them misinterpret pitch romance as well. they forget that it's literally proven in-comic that trolls don't accept shit tons of toxicity as normal in their romance. (of course it gets a little more complicated when caste dynamics are introduced, but in the end other trolls still wish to auspistize in cases like terezi/gamzee.)

ashen romance has a purpose, and people straight up refusing to acknowledge one of the four romances in the four romance system throws their perspective of the entire thing off balance.

#oh god this got so long fuck .i didnt mean to go on FOREVER lmfao #auspisticism #kismesissitude #quadrants #hsmeta #op

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