#I complain about KotFE/KotET

[arkhavens]

had a loose idea for smthn that would fix like all of my issues w where swtors storyline is/has been going.

what if, instead of immediately getting queued for the prelude to kotfe, there was a quest placed right before it where you essentially chose if you want that toon to actually go through the kotfe/kotet expansions, OR to play through the 5 years that the alliance commander is in carbonite?

bc for 1- i really want details on that period, and 2-it seems like Such a fucking lazy cop out to just mention that "oh yeah lol all the class characters just disappear for some reason right when the alliance commander does and their respective govts are fine w that" and act like that Makes Any SENSE.

it would give bioware a chance to actually diversify the story again, it would give players that dont want to lose their companions a way to still continue the story, we could get actual development into why the hell malgus is even alive, it would make the republic and empire being even remotely functional make sense(bc while i could understand the smuggler+bounty hunter dropping off the map, you cannot fucking tell me that the republic losing the Barsen'thor, the Hero of Tython,+Havoc Squad's leader, AND the empire losing the Empire's Wrath, multiple major members of the dark council,+Cipher 9, ALONGSIDE anyone Else that was lost in the fighting, would just be fine.)

and like it wouldnt even need to be a complete chronicle of the 5 years!! we've had major timeskips in game b4, so it could definitely speed past some shit. but just seeing how the empire and republic even managed to hold it together at ALL would be fascinating.

i honestly feel like setting up a sort of branch out -> joining point -> branch out again -> rejoin etc pattern to content could work really well if done properly. it would weave the overarching story together but allow for a lot of diversity in playthroughs, which is what ive seen practically Everyone complaining about.

idk. just, more class content. the little class missions on rishi engaged me more than the entirety of kotfe+kotet, and im saying that as someone who actually kind of enjoyed those expansions the first go around

[captainderyn]

Reasons Why Valkorian Couldn’t Care Less About Emeldir

I’ve pointed out how this article  really doesn’t explain why Valkorian deals with Emeldir and how I see Emeldir becoming the Outlander as a very wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time scenerio so now I’d like to pull some major issues with Valkorian taking up residence in Emeldir’s head. 

1. Very obvious, Emeldir is a smuggler. He knows how to go pew pew with blasters, none of the force mumbo-jumbo that Valkorian is a part of. No force power means no cool tricks for Valkorian. 

2. Emeldir has a limp from an old injury. Therefore Valkorian has trapped himself in a not 100% battle puppet. Damn. 

3. His reputation consists of being a hired gun for the Republic and beating down crime lords. Not nearly as intimidating as Emperors Wrath or Hero of Tython. 

4. He has no motivation to get anywhere near galatic politics. Sorry Valk, but you stuck yourself with a dude that just really wants to go home to Coruscant with his wife. Who is now gone. Thanks to his five years vacation. That doesn’t really build a willingness to help you take over the galaxy.

5. I call bullshit that Valkorian found Emeldir a threat. Emeldir has blaster that goes pew pew, Valkorian has enough force energy to snap him like a stick. I highly doubt he saw Emeldir as anything other than a pesky fly. 

6. I also call bullshit on him finding Emeldir fascinating. There is nothing a powerful force user would find interesting about him unless they’re interesting in how he threw his entire being into doing what he thought was right. 

7. Have I mentioned he’s a smuggler?

I’m honestly just bitter with this explanation, bitter with KotFE/KotET in general and about as done with Emeldir begin the Outlander as he’s been since he was thawed out. 

This article changes nothing on how I see Valkorian taking over Emeldir’s head; Emeldir was there, hit him hard enough to kill his mortal body, so as a last ditch attempt to thwart death he snapped himself to the closest living being until he could (hopefully) manipulate Emeldir into submitting to his will. A means to an end. 

[a-master-procrastinator]

Long ass post about the Eternal family not being a copy-paste from ATLA (aka I like the memes but my god can you please stop)

Because some people truly think that Vaylin is off-brand Azula, Arcann is Zuko and so on.

It's. Called. A. Trope. (I mean how often do we come across abusive manipulative fathers in media? Mothers who couldn't much to change anything? Children, desperately looking for their parent's approval no matter what?)

Of course, you have to consider the fact that the writing of ATLA is simply better than of KotFE/ET, so this might have been one of the reasons why people say that.

Spoilers for Avatar: The Last Airbender, Knights of the Fallen Empire and Knights of the Eternal Throne expansions!

Okay, so here's my unprofessional, maybe biased, not super deep take.

(not going to mention that all of them are members of royal, ruling family, kinda obvious)

What roles do they play in their stories? Well, both Valkorion and Ozai are main antagonists, but their presence throughout the story is very different. Ozai is rarely shown in first two seasons, we don't even see his face until season 3. He doesn't have a direct connection to the protagonist, they only meet at the very end of the show, and Ozai's role is to pose a threat to the world, while Aang's is to save it. Valkorion, on the other hand, is constantly on the screen, interacting with the main character, challenging their viewpoint and influencing them directly. His end goal is similar to Ozai's (destroy everything and be the only ruler of the his nation), but with one major difference - he's trapped in Outlander's mind, so to achieve his goal Valkorion attempts to take control of the main character. Their interactions play important role in the story, and we spend a lot of time with Valkorion.

In addition to that, their relationship with children are also not exactly the same. It seems like Azula is Ozai's favorite and Zuko is a failure in his eyes until he meets his expectations, and the same goes with Vaylin, Arcann and Valkorion, right? Well, partially. Indeed, Valkorion and Ozai's treat their sons in similar ways (are disappointed in them until they meet their expectation by doing something that goes against their morals), but when it comes to Vaylin and Azula, it's not that easy. See, Valkorion claims that Vaylin was always his favorite creation (even though we know it's actually his empire), and he certainly seems to take pride in her potential in the Force. But her power is the very reason he's afraid of his own daughter, and in this fear Valkorion literally locks Vaylin away and allows to put her through physical and mental torture just to make sure she won't become a threat, won't overpower him. Maybe he thought of her better than of Arcann, but she wasn't his favored child for sure. I don't want to say that Azula hasn't experienced abuse from Ozai, but for the most part he clearly favored her over Zuko. He has never shown fear of Azula's power and abilities (or at least I haven't noticed), quite the opposite - allowed her to do a lot, as long as she brings results.

I could also mention their slightly different characterization (mostly that we get more characterization of Valkorion, get to learn his motivations, views, philosophy and all that, also he's portrayed as more nuanced, even if he not really is) and role in their respective governments (ozai is one of many Fire Lords and arguably not the greatest, while Valkorion is a god to citizens of Zakuul, their only Immortal Emperor), but those are details, and I think you get the point.

What's similar: role of the main antagonist, manipulative and abusive father, goal of destruction of everything that isn't their nation/empire, relationship with disgraced son.

What's different: presence in the overall narrative, relationship with the main character, relationship with daughter, role in their societies.

Senya and Ursa are even less similar. Yes, they both are mothers who love their children, but have to leave them, but these are probably the only things they have in common. Just as with Ozai and Valkorion's presence throughout the story, Ursa is only shown in flashbacks (for obvious reasons), and Senya is one of major characters in KotFE and (a bit less major) in KotET. Ursa leaves because she has to kill Azulon in order to save Zuko, and later isn't present in the story (I'm aware that her fate is told in comics, but we aren't talking about it). Senya leaves because when she tries to take children with her, they refuse, and she understands that she can't force them to, nor she can help them to break free from Valkorion's manipulations. For a long time she's absent from Arcann ad Vaylin's lives, but at the time of game events she attempts to save her children and stop the madness and destruction they've caused, and it isn't a small part of the story.

I also want to add that their relationship with Ozai and Valkorion are also different, but can't say much about Ursa. I heard that she didn't choose this marriage and suffered emotional (and maybe physical???) abuse from Ozai. I can say with confidence, though, that Senya genuinely loved Valkorion, and strangely enough, he seems to at very least respect her. But, of course, this wasn't the best marriage either.

Plus, we see more of Senya's relationship with Vaylin than Arcann or Thexan, but with Ursa we see her more with Zuko than Azula. Just a detail to remember.

(also Senya is simply a better character but that besides the point, moving on. in this house we stand Senya)

What's similar: role of loving and caring mother, abandoning their family at some point.

What's different: presence in the overall narrative, relationship with husband, characterization in general.

Boy, where do I even begin. Vaylin and Azula are similar in that they are both extremely powerful (one is firebending prodigy, the other is potentially stronger than Valkorion), both are cruel "craaaaazy" (i hate that cliché), both are younger sisters, have serious mother issues (seemingly more so than father issues), both go through betrayal of people they could always rely on, which eventually leads to their downfall. But when I took a look at their personal arcs, it became clear that they aren't the same (unfortunately, Vaylin's arc is very rushed and underdeveloped, but we'll have to go with what we have and my personal view, sorry).

There's a really good video about writing corruption and madness, and I'm going to base my thoughts on it. To summarise it: a good corruption arc should have 4 components:

- the character has a specific goal (or a goal and subgoals);

- in pursuit of said goal they become the cause of a significant event that brings serious consequences;

- as the result of these consequences, character abandons their morals, ideals or a code in pursuit of goal;

- character either will not achieve their goal or will succeed, but it won't be enough to satisfy them.

And then the author brings Azula's arc as one of the best examples of compelling story of corruption (so basically, she represents it perfectly). In short, Azula's main goals are perfection and control, and subgoals help achieve the main ones. In pursuit of these goals, Azula causes Mai and Ty Lee to betray her (by pushing them too far to do something they wouldn't do), which then causes her to become paranoid, which makes her to attempt controlling everything and everyone around her, *breathes* which makes her lose control over herself and ....

Now, I thought if Vaylin's arc could fit into a corruption one, and next part will be based a lot on my assumptions and personal view of her character (plus rushed writing doesn't help), but I think yes (or at least mostly). The difference is in goals, ideals and details.

While the story strongly makes us think that Vaylin's goal is freedom (or control over her life and everything around her) or power and destruction, I think it's actually self-determination (which was said by Tenebrae in 6.2) and feeling safe. Let me explain (and here I thought this would be a short comparison). Sure, when Valkorion caged Vaylin on Nathema, he took choices and control over her life from his daughter. But let's not forget whom Vaylin blames for this (even more than Valkorion): her own mother, and I think this details tell us that the most important thing that Vaylin lost on Nathema is feeling safe. Then, after Arcann brought her home, I assume Vaylin still didn't feel safe enough under Valkorion's rule, still too afraid that he'd simply send her back to that hellish place.

It's when Valkorion is struck down Vaylin finally has a feeling of personal safety, even if she isn't the one on the throne. Why? Because back on Nathema there were two people who haven't turned on her - Arcann and Thexan (yes, this is also a huge assumption, bc the game states that only Thexan visited her, but it doesn't make much sense).

I've always noticed (and I'm not alone in this) that her behavior in Fallen Empire is different from the way she acted in Eternal Throne. Most likely bc of rushed writing, but I see a character driven reason here. In first of these expansions, Vaylin is the second person in power on Zakuul, and with Arcann being in charge, person she can trust more than any other living being, she feels safe - she can test her power, and now Valkorion won't prevent it, she can do pretty much everything she wishes, and the most Arcann will do about this is mildly complain (without blaming her). Really would be nice if we got to see any normal hobbies of Vaylin (like wasn't there something about books or art?), but I digress. She might have some questions about Arcann's tactics, but they get along just fine. The important thing to note is Vaylin not seeking to hunt the Outlander personally, to rule or conquer the rest of the galaxy, or trying to achieve absolute freedom or power. She's kinda there.

This, however, changes when Arcann doesn't allow Vaylin to kill Senya. Their relationship was getting somewhat worse towards the end of KotFE, but this is a turning event Vaylin caused by attempting to strike her mother. By saving the person Vaylin blames for all the trauma from sending her to Nathema, Arcann threatened her feeling of safety. And now Vaylin starts to believing that to achieve safety she now needs to kill people who hurt her (that's why she's so determined to find Senya and Arcann), take the throne and hunt down Outlander (she was manipulated by SCORPIO to these subgoals).

(The following is the weakest, I'll admit, but I hope I can at least express what I see). So, in trying to achieve goals she didn't want before Vaylin loses in self-determination, being either driven by overwhelming anger or manipulated by others (SCORPIO or Commander on Odessen), desperately trying to accomplish anything, or even goes against her morals (like by erasing GEMINI's free will protocols, when earlier she agreed that freedom to choose is important; or breaking the deal on Odessen). All of these result in her downfall.

But even this isn't the end. The key difference between arcs of Azula Vaylin lies in it's resolution, or that Vaylin have a chance to overcome corruption in the main narrative (and Azula doesn't. again, not including comics here, sorry). After death, Vaylin is again controlled by Valkorion in Outlander's mind. First time physically (she can't resist it), second time mentally. This is where Vaylin has to choose - kill brother who betrayed her and Commander who killed her, or go against Valkorion, person responsible for almost all of her pain and trauma. She has t choose by herself, and I think it's a good start.

Now, before 6.2 we all thought Vaylin was dead for good, but that story update hinted at possibility of her coming back to life. What I like to think is that now that she dealt with people responsible for her trauma (helped defeat Valkorion and actually for once listened to Senya), Vaylin can now have a different life, finding herself with support of someone she doesn't hold a grudge against and who treats her well (Satele, I mean).

I'm so sorry for going into details, but I needed this long explanation to present the point (and I suck at explanations). As said before, this is my version of her arc, and most likely wrong interpretation, but even with personal freedom of choice, Vaylin character differs from Azula a lot.

Need I mention that Vaylin relationship with Arcann and Valkorion are drastically different from those between Azula, Zuko and Ozai?

(Also a little detail - with royal family of Fire Nation, Azula is the golden child, while with Tiralls it's actually Thexan, not Vaylin).

What's similar: role of extremely powerful, emotionally damaged daughter with little to no regard towards others, close people betraying them, resulting in their downfall.

What's different: characterization, role in the narrative, relationship with father and brother.

Arcann and Zuko is the most difficult part, but I still believe that calling Arcann just a cheap copy of Zuko is incorrect.

So, they fall into role of less successful son, always getting disapproval from father, being in shadow of more talented sibling, both obsessed with capturing the main character but ending up helping them end the war after going through a redemption arc with help of caring family member. Even both have scars on left side of face. Yeah, seems similar. I still think they are different characters.

Let's start with their relationships with family. In Valkorion section I said that his attitude towards Arcann is similar to that of Ozai towards Zuko, so not going to spend too much time here. However, there's slight difference - Zuko didn't kill his father even he had a perfect opportunity (bc it wasn't his goal), Arcann did (bc it was one of his goals), which says something about their characterizations.

Zuko and Ursa were shown to have a good mother-son relationship, and it played a role in Zuko's character. With Arcann and Senya, we don't really know (not much was shown in expansions). We know Arcann didn't hate his mother, but possibly didn't have warm memories of her either. The reason is most likely, like Senya said, her children wanted nothing to do with her (which is a bit untrue about Vaylin, but okay) and leaned more towards Valkorion. We need to remember that on Zakuul Valkorion isn't just one of many great leaders, he's the greatest, and seen as a god by most citizens, so safe to assume the same would apply to his children as well.

Zuko and Azula's siblingship (i'm out of words) is a bit similar to Arcann and Vaylin's in way of brother knowing that his sister isn't good, but still caring about them (even if not showing). At least it's what I saw. What's different is how Azula treats Zuko, compared to how Vaylin treats Arcann. I think Azula showed compassion or concern for Zuko maybe twice, but I'm not entirely convinced that it was 100% sincere. Vaylin, on the other hand, seems to trust and care about Arcann (with bits of sass and questioning his life choices), and switching to complete opposite after him saving Senya. Also, I don't she ever called Arcann a failure in their father's eyes.

Now I want to say that their roles in stories aren't the same either. Sure, both are introduced to us as antagonists, but in reality, Zuko was never a true antagonist (we get to learn this somewhere mid-season 1), when Arcann remains the main antagonist for whole of KotFE. Zuko didn't start a war and didn't participate in conquest of other nations too much, his main goal was to capture the Avatar so to restore his honor (and deserve his father's forgiveness). Honestly, I think it's safe to say the Zuko is one of two main protagonists of ATLA. Why does Arcann want to capture the Outlander? Solely because his father's spirit still lives inside this person's mind, and the best solution to keep Valkorion away from the galaxy is not letting the Outlander free (hence the carbonite freezing). And Arcann doesn't want or need Valkorion's forgiveness when he attempts to kill him (or kills him, depending on your choice. anyway, his action directly leads to Valkorion's "death"). And right after that he becomes a ruler of Zakuul and begins the conquest of Republic, Sith Empire and everything he can reach (the reasoning behind this is still unclear to me though; maybe because he was raised with ruling Zakuul in mind and he didn't anything else, idk). Point is, he's responsible for war and main's character imprisonment, which makes him the main antagonist of KotFE. They have it the opposite ways - Zuko starts as disgraced prince, supported by a little group of people, and in the end he's recognized and appreciated by his nation, and Arcann starts as respected by his empire, later becoming less and less loved, until some groups start rebelling his rule, and in the end he doesn't get to rule Zakuul again.

This leads me to their morals. See, Zuko didn't have the worst morals in Fire Nation, even more, he expressed care for loyals soldiers of his nation before getting punished by Ozai. During first season (and about a half of second one) his views on other nations are what he was taught before. However, these views are challenged by travelling in Earth Kingdom, witnessing people suffering from war Fire Nation started and hating its people (you already know all of this), and with this he comes through final stage of redemption when he's back home. Unfortunately, Arcann doesn't go through this, and he's shown to be more ruthless.

Alright, when it comes to their redemption arcs, well let's say they are different (both in quality and the way they go through it), I'm just a bit tired of long explanations at this point. Zuko's arc is one of the best ever put on television, and Arcann's... well, it definitely has potential, but is criminally underdeveloped (there are other people who will explain it better than I ever could).

What's similar: role of disgraced son, living in shadow of their sibling, serious injuries on the left side of face (though with different meanings), obsession with capturing the main character, having a redemption arc.

What's different: role in the narrative, role in their society, characterization, relationship with sister and mother, different end goals (before redemption), paths to redemption.

[rainofaugustsith]

SWTOR: On Companions, Agency and Opinions

I always scratch my head when people say Lana has no personality or agrees with the PC with everything they do. I mean, they're entitled to that opinion. I just don't get it.  Lana complains a lot in KOTFE and KOTET, depending on the choices you make. If you save the sun reactor, she yells at you. If you accept Valkorion's power she has a lot to say about it. If you don't tell her Valkorion is in your mind, there's an entire scene of her telling you off about it. If you don't save the Imperials from the Eternal Fleet ship, she's unhappy. In the traitor arc, if you choose to leave Theron behind she argues with you about it and it's made very clear that she's in extreme disagreement with it.  In Onslaught she's perhaps more neutral, but not really - she pretty actively trolls Arn and Tau for her own amusement, is seen debating Gnost-Dural on his level, and has that whole ongoing thing about Corellian whiskey. Considering the character had like ten lines in the entire expac, they packed a lot in.  In Echoes of Oblivion, she's vocal that she's not happy with the situation. And unlike some of the other companions, most of the time she actually respects and abides by the Commander's decision that she should not come along.  What Lana doesn't have is the agency in the game to leave, actively oppose the PC or hold a permanent grudge. Although, for the latter, I think that may be changing. If you choose to kill Theron, there's a bit of awkwardness between Lana and the PC when Theron's name comes up at the end of another expac.  She's really not the only companion in that position. With only a few exceptions, the companions do not have the agency to leave a PC or openly fight them. There are other companions that you can literally kick across the room and choke and in the next scene they're smiling and happy to see you. In Ossus and Onslaught you can be a complete asshole to some of the new companions and they really don't react in any lasting way, at least as of yet. FWIW I don't think that's really realistic. I think the way they had things in Dragon Age where the companions actually did change their behavior based on how you treated them and your decisions, to the point of leaving if they were angry enough, is actually way better.  And there are some cases where Bioware kind of tests the waters with this: Ashara openly disagrees and debates with the PC in the class story. In her reunion she lets the PC know that she won't be abused by them again if they attack her, and is openly snarky.  Akaavi will tell the PC off to their face in the class story.  Khem Val criticizes the PC numerous times in the Inquisitor's story and has uncomplimentary things to say during the reunion.  Kaliyo all but rolls her eyes at the PC depending on what they say. In KNOTE, if the Imperial Agent says they were in carbonite and were rescued, Kaliyo literally calls them pathetic. She also has a lot to say about the raid on the Spire.  Aric Jorgan openly disagrees with the PC if they don't take his side in the Spire assault assignments.  Elara Dorne breaks up with the male Trooper if he does certain things in KOFTE, and if a Trooper at all goes with the Empire, she wishes them dead to their face.  If a SW kept the collar on Vette in the class story (OMG WHO CAN DO THAT) she tells them off in KOTFE.  Lokin will literally sic rakghouls on you if you piss him off in KOTFE.  In KOTFE, Xalek walks away and refuses to be recruited if you won't duel with him.  Theron criticizes the PC in KOTFE if they kill Kaliyo or Aric, and he also has very strong reactions to a Commander's decisions on Onslaught.  But there are a lot of complaints about some of these instances where companions do express their own opinions or there are consequences for them. In the one instance where Bioware really ran with it, the playerbase wasn't happy.  Ahem, Koth. Koth had no issue telling the PC when they were pissing him off. He didn't back down. He remembered things the PC had done and didn't let them go, whether they were positive or negative. Even his opinion about Valkorion - yeah, it wasn't something we agreed with, was it? He wasn't smiling and nodding with the PC; he was letting the PC know how Valkorion appeared to him, and yeah, it was frustrating but it was realistic, given that he had grown up in a society where people were conditioned their entire lives to accept Valkorion as a benevolent god. 

And so much of the playerbase hated him for it.  Leaving and taking the Gravestone was completely in character for him, IMHO. He left the Zakuulan navy because they were killing civilians, he's not going to let you do it too. I personally feel that planting the bomb on the ship was out of character for him and just made him look bad. I think he would have cared about the rest of his crew's safety, since that is an ongoing theme for him. I don't think he really would have asked the Commander to rally the entire Eternal Alliance fleet around him with the knowledge that the Gravestone might be about to destroy them all.  But the way he called the Commander out, reacted to their decisions and did things that suggested actual consequences? Great stuff.  I actually wish there was more reactivity to how the Commander interacts with the companions. But I also don't think that much of the playerbase would stand for it if they really went there with other characters.

[arkannis]

Hello,

I just recently got into the Old Republic Fandom, and the Eternal Empire is my favorite arc. I do wish there was more story content to give more development to the characters, particularly in Arcann's case. While I love his romance scenes, I wish there were more scenes about his redemption and relationship with the Outlander or a dark side ending where the Outlander or Arcann takes the throne with the other as a consort. I found your blog while trying to find content further developing his character. Thank you so much for posting all your headcanons and musings!

With that being said, what are your headcanons for Zakuul culture? And could you post a masterpost compilation of your Arcann headcanons? I am trying to find the post where the romance novels headcanon originated in the tags and not having much luck.

Hope you have a nice day!

Hi anon!! Sorry for a late reply. First I’ll answer the second part of your message. The romance holonovels headcanon originated from the this post ; the post doesn’t outright say it, but some people in the tags (when they reblogged it) mentioned that Arcann probably seemed like the type to read romance in his free time. As of what I can remember the tags were from this reblog and this other reblog and both say that Arcann reads romance holonovels. The continuation of this headcanon were in replies or tags, so it’s hard to track them all down! Secondly, my Arcann tag is a mess, and I probably threw in multiple headcanons in reblogs or tags so it would be hard to find them all... I’ll think about making a masterpost, but I don’t think I have time for something like that right now. Ok, now that’s over with... I 100% agree with you, anon! I HAVE so many things to say about the possibility about that dark side ending. I don’t think devs were planning to make Arcann a possible romance option in the beginning, so it wouldn’t have been possible to be his LI and rule as emperor/empress. I also agree with the development of the characters... however, Arcann’s redemption and relationship with the Outlander was definitely rushed, because the plans to make a third expansion was apparently cancelled due to the backlash from fans who wanted pub vs. imp back. I made a whole post complaining about that... Otherwise, I definitely think they would have had more time to flesh out his characters and the other Zakuulan characters as well (Vaylin, Senya, Koth, etc.). I’m like pretty much sure content was cut out from KOTFE/KOTET to make them shorter. Due to such lost content, I have to create my headcanons from extrapolation based on the Sacrifice trailer, available codex entries, existing dialogue, and implications of existing issues. As well as other people’s hcs and commentary!! WARNING: SUPER LONG BULLET POINTS for Zakuulan culture headcanons.

The reason why I don’t have that many Zakuulan culture headcanons is because.... I feel like it’s so weirdly explored in the expansions.

I think the arts is a big thing in Zakuul! The Dragon’s Maw chapter gave me that kind of vibe. I also discussed this mildly (not) with Arcann. Most specifically THEATRE, PERFORMANCE AND SINGING. 

Evidence: Senya sings and composes and there’s the famous Zakuulan holoperformer, Malita Tal. No, I don’t have evidence for theatre, but honestly? Zakuulans are so goddamn dramatic, they most definitely have reality TV series or drama series... 

arcann be like oh you listen to malita tal? name all of her albums in alphabetical order or you get exiled

Zakuulan culture most definitely has idol culture, based on Malita Tal (and reportedly her performances were watched by millions). And those fans apparently also protested against Arcann’s rule. personally i think if they had twitter the u.s. gov*rnment would be wiped out.

I just think singing is a big thing in Zakuulan culture. I mean, even Valkorion sings (if you decide to kill Senya, his force ghost appears. They both have an exchange and it’s actually sweet for like 0.1 second). 

I also think there would be typical Zakuulan fairytales embedded in the culture. Hear me out. Most specifically those type of royal fairytales with the princes and princesses. This can be heavily contributed to the fact that a royal family is essentially in power. 

You cannot expect me to believe not a single person in Zakuul has written a Prince Arcann x reader holofic. You just can’t. Or Prince Thexan. Actually, I think Thexan would be more common, I think he was perceived to be more compassionate and kind compared to Arcann by the common folk? Since I know there’s that NPC dialogue where one of them goes how different it would be if Thexan took the throne instead. 

The fairytales would probably involve a lot of references to the Old Gods. I kinda imagine that the enemy would be some sort of serpent, that is, Zildrog, because apparently he’s just a bedtime story to scare children away. 

I think these Zakuulan fairy tales would contribute to the theatre and performance, acting culture that Zakuul has. 

Furthermore, I just think the Tirall kids probably read these fairytales as well. francis dont talk about arcann reading again

I want to talk about the Old Gods and that religion, which is one of my favorite things ever... probably because the Gods are machines. Superweapon machines... ok ill shut up

Even if Valkorion basically got rid of the religion, it’s clear that the religion is still incorporated into heavy talk in Zakuulan culture (e.g. eyes of Esne, heart of Scyva). 

My headcanon is that there are sanctuaries or small secret churches (?) for those who want to worship the Old Gods. Obviously the Herald of Zildrogs who believe in the Old Way are a cult, so I think people would look for an alternative. 

I think there would be great effort to hide these places, as it can get you exiled. Thus these would probably be located in the Old World, rather than in a more obvious position like the Spire. 

The beliefs of the Old Ways isn’t exactly clear, they aren’t exactly touched upon, which is a shame. I think people would ask for help from each of these gods depending on what they want.

Those who ask for Izax’ guidance want to seek success, accomplishments, power, and glory.

Those who ask for Scyva’s guidance ask for her to guide souls peacefully to death (she is described as someone who weeps beside Zakuulans as they march towards Izax - basically death) , or ask for help/compassion from her. Maybe maternity as well? Or parental love?

Those who ask for Aivela (goddess of passion) want her to guide them with her passion (Aivela accompanies Tyth, who is kind of a god of war/warrior). I think there would also be romance related stuff as well. If someone asked for help regarding their love related issues, it would probably be from Aivela!

I’m not sure about Esne - but maybe in a similar sense, if someone is suffering with jealousy - in any situation, they would ask guidance from her. I don’t know where I read this but I think the “eyes of Esne” expression meant like having eyes of jealousy.

Nahut? I don’t think he was worshipped.  “Nahut was considered to be gray, formless and cold, and was denied worship by all except his mother Scyva.” But regardless, I think he still had a role to play. 

After the Outlander takes the throne, and Zakuul renounces their membership from the Eternal Alliance, I think people would be allowed to openly express their religious beliefs, that is, the Old Ways. Oh, personally I headcanon that they would build beautiful places of worship in the Spire with similar geometrical pyramid designs...!! 

Yeah...I think that’s all I got! I’ll need to see how I can somehow make this post easily found, lol. This is quite a long list, and I have to emphasize that these are my headcanons! They are based on what I see and I just kind of fill in the gaps to fit my own stories. This took a while to write because I KNEW I had these headcanons, but they just didn’t appear at the time I saw this anon ask. Anyways, I’ll probably create more headcanons in the future. Also:

a dark side ending where the Outlander or Arcann takes the throne with the other as a consort

I have so many things to say about this. I know the game won’t permit it, because if you think about it, both the light side choice (Eternal Alliance) and the dark side choice (Eternal Empire) are happy endings for your characters anyways. They can continue as the “hero” or the “protagonist”, so I don’t think this route could ever be implemented. However, I think it would be absolutely interesting if throughout the gameplay, players are given a choice to flirt with Arcann. The Outlander and Arcann agree to get rid of Valkorion, but thats if the Outlander decides to betray the Alliance and joins Arcann instead. And should they join him, they have the choice to romance him... and I guess it’s a happy ending for you both :P Obviously this won’t happen, but maybe it will. I wouldn’t mind being the prince consort of Arcann lol idk! me and vaylin are gonna be besties and we’ll paint each others nails or something Oh and have a nice day too anon...!!

[sullustangin]

Okay, strange question for Theron. I hat does he believe in. Beyond duty and doing things for the greater good.

That’s a good question! It’s going to get long, so some of this is beyond a cut. 

Theron was raised as a Jedi until adolescence - his belief system is rooted in the existence of the Force.  It exists in all living things, and some people can access and use it, while others cannot. The Jedi are the good guys.  He was also raised as a citizen of the Republic.  He believes in the Galactic Constitution, which bars slavery and grants all sentients certain rights.  The Republic is a representative government with elections and enfranchised people choosing their leaders. 

Duty and the Greater Good

“Duty” and "The Greater Good” concept have to be defined with Theron, because he is not a lawful character.  He’s a neutral, leaning chaotic character in D&D terms.  Lawful characters go by whatever society approves of; chaotic characters have their own internal compass.  Neutral considers both.  A great example of this is when Director Trant of SIS and Jace Malcom the Supreme Commander of Pub forces tell him to get the job done and basically ignore the fact that two planets full of people are going to be sacrificed to do it.  Lawful characters do as the authority says.....and Theron decides to go rogue and disobey with a Jedi in order to at least save the second planet. His “greater good” is a lower death count, rather than guaranteed Republic victory. I would argue that Theron interprets his duty as belonging to a larger galaxy rather than exclusively the Republic and its political/military objectives; he is pro-Republic, no doubt about it, but there are limits. He’s also pro-Jedi, but there are limits -- some of them can be real asses.   I discuss his alignment further here.

Going into Forged Alliances in SWTOR, we have a man who works for the Republic and endorses the ideals of the Galactic Constitution.  He knows the Republic is not perfect.  He does believe the Jedi are “right,” but he does have some issues with their attitudes toward non-Force users.  They are not perfect. We get some very vehement statements in Annihilation about Theron’s experience with the Jedi after he was found not to be Force sensitive:  the arrogance of the Jedi, how they looked down on non-Force users. He even applied this metric to Satele in their first real conversation with each other.  I discuss this more here.  This doesn’t make him anti-Jedi, but he doesn’t view them with the same rose-colored glasses he did as a youngling. Individuals aside, he follows the Light Side of the Force.  

The Dark Side decisions that a Pub can make to please Theron in Forged Alliances/Shadow of Revan involve deceiving the Empire -- first, by destroying the Revanite cyborgs on Rakata Prime; second, by setting up perimeters around the Yavin base that track Imp movements just a little bit closer.  The blowing up of cyborgs rather than fighting them is to prevent Lana and the Empire from scavenging them later.  It’s not about killing them -- they as individuals are already dead.  You have to kill them to get to the next room anyway.  It’s just a matter of whether you give the Republic an edge by not permitting the Empire the opportunity.  It’s a chess match.  On Yavin, it’s about the Republic having more information than the Empire here as well.  These aren’t traps or weapons that would hurt Imps -- it’s just about having more information.  That is his duty to the Republic as an SIS agent while still supporting a cross-factional alliance to defeat a shared “Greater Bad.”  So while dishonest and Dark Side and ‘anti-Jedi’, Theron still does things in support of a government that has the Galactic Constitution while doing no direct physical harm to the Sith Empire’s operatives (a rather Light Side-y solution).

What else does Theron believe in, besides all that?

Theron believes – most of all and with the most optimism --  in the future. We saw that at the end of Lost Suns.  We see that when he chooses to save civilians on a planet he’s never met.  We even see it in his Dark Side decisions in-game; he anticipates that the war will resume against the Empire, and he wants the Republic (and its Constitution) to have the best odds winning.  I believe that Theron would rather have a rough life himself and save others in the future from the same work and suffering he’s gone through.  Does he do it like a Jedi? Nope.  He isn’t honest or honorable all the time, but he draws the line of sacrificing innocents or excessive for a cause.  Does he do it like a traditional agent of the Republic, taking orders without question?  Good Lord, no.  Trant complains about that all the time in Lost Suns and Annihilation.  Theron is Trant’s best agent, but half the time, Trant wants to throw him out a window or down a trash compactor because he doesn’t do things by the book. 

I discuss in that alignment post how beat up Theron gets because he does things that are “right” in his mind, but not protocol. Theron fights for a brighter future.  Based upon what he’s willing to do personally to ensure that happens, his life comes second to those yet to be born and a better galaxy for them.  Call it Jedi virtue, call it a zealous belief in the Galactic Constitution -- Theron does it (and he meets his end that way in the Nathema Conspiracy, if the player chooses that path).  This is also partially why he doesn’t have an SIS partner. Theron might be assigned to another agent, but he wants to do all the work himself, his own way.  Trant has learned it is pointless to assign Theron a partner because the partner is left out and doesn’t even know when Theron gallivants off.  His risk, his way.  

So to be very specific, Theron believes in the future for others, not necessarily himself.  Theron has a certain lack of selfishness paired with stubbornness that makes him put himself in danger because he believes there is some greater cause; he, the individual, doesn’t matter as much.  We see this in other SIS agents -- they’d die in the line of duty without much of a second thought. I read about Lana’s early experience in the Talay initiative, and the SIS agents she encountered were particularly devout.  

For Theron, that duty isn’t just to Republic or SIS -- it’s for the better future of the galaxy as well.  We can also use this as part of an argument that suggests why Theron isn’t shown romantically involved with anyone unless he gets with the player.  Theron thinks it would be nice if he survived to see this great future he wants for the galaxy and the Republic, but he understands he may not live to see it. That’s not fatalism or pessimism however.  He knows what Jedi did during the Fall of Coruscant.  He was always told by Ngani Zho that he was so loved by his mother that she had to give him up, so she wouldn’t have divided loyalties when it came to the good of the Republic.  His personal happiness doesn’t rank very high here; it is virtuous and right for individuals to make choices that cost themselves something rather than others. Theron doesn’t like to be selfish.

During KotFE Theron leaves the Republic after they’ve accepted the political fiction that Saresh is out of office.  Everyone knows she’s pulling the strings and promoting constant warfare against the Sith Empire, while bending the knee to Zakuul the entire time.  They are oppressed, but she gets to have her little wars.  Theron joins the Alliance because it is resisting an oppressive power that the Saresh doesn’t seem interested in throwing off and that the Empire can’t seem to throw off.  In KotFE, you have Theron as a companion.  He does NOT accept Republic memorabilia in order to raise influence -- I don’t think that’s an oversight, since Lana takes Imp memorabilia with enthusiasm.  Theron believes in the Galactic Constitution and all of its principles – but the Republic is failing to do that right now by tolerating Zakuul and their systems of slavery. If you recruit Bowdaar, you do so by Fight Club or “Eternal Championship” or whatever, and it runs off slaves and people owned by others.  This was what Theron worked against during his career in SIS prior to the whole Korriban thing….and now the Republic tolerates Zakuul’s use of it, as long as Saresh has her little wars with the Empire.

By KotFE, Theron no longer believes in his duty to the Republic, but in the Galactic Constitution. Now that the Jedi are gone, he doesn’t believe in them as much as the broader, greater good that the Republic never fully reached for due to its conflict with the Sith Empire.

This also brings us to the idea that Theron believes in the player.  When all the things he valued in the Republic and SIS went to dust, he went to the Alliance, knowing that a key element was the rescue of the player from carbonite.  Somehow, he thought this person – this key figure that he had worked with previously – would be able to head an Alliance that would save the galaxy one last time from the Sith Emperor.  

With KotET, the player can decide whether they are a peacekeeper Alliance or a new Empire. Theron supports the player and doesn’t make any move to leave or go back to the Republic, regardless of the decision (a flaw in writing, in my personal opinion, but it is what it is).  This is the game’s mechanic, but we may also interpret this as Theron’s belief in truth:  we are what we say we are.  A benevolent empire may not have elections, but it has a greater good in mind.   The Republic claims to support all of these ideals in its constitution…but it doesn’t under Saresh.  Even with a more brutal Eternal Empire, there is truth in advertising.  We are doing this, that’s the way it is.  We’re not hiding behind some Constitution that’s pushed to the wayside in favor of continued war with the Sith Empire. I know this is spinning the wheels hard to try to make it work, but Theron has to have rationale for staying, and it’s not provided in game. In Onslaught, we see a return of Theron’s temper; players who permitted high casualties on Corellia had Theron stomp out on them in anger.  That is consistent with what we’ve seen previously, but the writing had made him somewhat of a sycophant to the player character for awhile; it was a good surprise for character development, bad if you were romancing Theron since you don’t get a smooch off him for that ending.  

Now, if you go all Light Side for Theron, then it’s more easily explicable as to why he stays with the player – the Alliance does what the Republic will not, and he rather be in a place that does what the Republic should be doing, rather than be in a Republic that’s all talk and no action. He’s happy to return home to the Republic, if you make that choice in Onslaught.  He’s also accepting of remaining independent.  He only expresses concern with an Imperial alliance because he doesn’t want his home ground to dust....and all the people in it.  All those little individual futures that we as Alliance commander can control -- and if we’re working to make them better, that coincides with Theron’s own beliefs.

Does Theron Shan believe in love?

The virtue of love, in the sense that one cares for the good of others and the galaxy, is approved of by Jedi.  The idea of having someone, of bonding to someone and wanting to maintain that relationship – and the associated fear of losing that relationship – can lead to the Dark Side.  Now, Theron may not buy into that as much as he did when he was a kid, but it might stick in the back of his mind, since unless the player romances him, he remains single.   He’s also devoted to his ideals and his work, his duties. He’s a self-admitted workaholic -- that sort of kicks romance and personal love down the ladder of priorities. 

On the other hand, Theron hasn’t been treated well by ‘love.’ Ngani Zho loved him… and left him without telling him the truth.  Zho also told Theron all the time that his mother Satele loved him so much that she had to give him up….and we have yet to see her ever admit that to him, face-to-face. We can argue that the latest patch, Echoes of Oblivion, points toward that happening, but even then, she only indicates that to player, not to Theron himself.  We saw Jace Malcom’s rejected paternal overtures in Annihilation and then alienation from Theron during Iokath.  Player choices decide whether that relationship is recoverable or not.

In an unromanced game, Theron is alone, but not necessarily lonely.  We can view this as sort of a holdover from his Jedi youth and as his adult life as a spy – love is a good thing in the galaxy but attachment is not, given the risks he takes.  There is no suggestion that he’s romantically involved with another NPC, unlike other games or even the Lana/Koth thing -- which is ultimately left up to player interpretation as to what exactly that was. 

This next bit is more subjective, because it’s how I’ve interpreted the Theron romance to this point on neutral/Light-leaning characters, specifically a smuggler.  I think prior to the playable character, Theron believes in love, but once again, not for him personally.  If the player romances him, it’s a whole different bantha wrangle.

Love is difficult. Being mutually attached is difficult for Theron, because most normal people want a certain back-and-forth, a certain amount of information sharing before they really commit.  Theron can’t give as much as they can.  Hook-ups are physically satisfying, but emotionally lacking.  

I know some authors have him as a someone who slept around a lot, while others have him as a serial monogamist.  Many just don’t discuss the idea of him being with anyone else besides their playable character.  I’ve written him as someone who can get hook-ups, can do a relationship or two seriously, but also has long spats of celibacy mixed in because he’s busy working. The greater good isn’t going to happen by itself, so Theron works at the cost of his personal relationships.  Because of being a spy and the issue of his parentage, he can’t disclose his work routine or why he’s come back with a new scar – it’s easier to let the relationship fall to the wayside than explain. Where are his parents? Who are his parents?  Easier to let the relationship go than explain.  

Theron is a consummate professional.  Even in the era of KotFE/KotET, Miot and Koth refer to him as ‘stiff’ or ‘stuffy’ and not knowing when to “not work.”  His duties come before his personal desires.  This is why we have to get through all of Rishi before we even get to kiss Theron, plus another few weeks/months on Yavin before they playable character and Theron hook up.  However, if we take a look at the player’s path from Korriban or Manaan (Pub and Imp side encounters with Theron), it’s a courtship over the course of a half-year or more.  There are a lot of headcanon explanations for this, ranging from playable character inexperience, demisexuality, “behind the scenes” action that emphatically states that they were hooking up long before we saw them, and so on.  

I took what I saw on screen to be a signal of Theron’s professionalism -- no time for lovin’ until the job is done -- but also his attachment issues. I’ll do another post on this later, but I’m writing him with the label “fearful avoidant attachment” in mind.  Basically, Theron wants to be attached to someone, desperately, but he is terrified of it.  I don’t blame Satele for this one – this is all about Theron not only being ditched by Ngani Zho, but also then being dismissed from the Jedi Order because he wasn’t even Force sensitive to begin with.  Suddenly, the father he knew and the way of life he thought he was going to follow til the day he died – gone.  Now he has to integrate with ‘normal people life’ where you’re supposed to do the personal life attachment stuff that Jedi frowned upon.  In my fan fic, Theron confesses that SIS and his duty to the Republic – more accurately, to the future – take the place of the Jedi order. He attaches himself to that more readily than individuals.  

The playable character changes Theron; he says that in his “I’m back at SIS” letter.  He’s more open to teamwork and reaching out to Satele.  Again, fans have run with this, including having Theron in a relationship with the player until the Eternal Fleet incident, having them just hook-up and leave it at that (particularly if Imperial), or something in between.  Ziost marks a time where Theron is both relieved and embarrassed the player is there to catch him when he falls.  The last we see of Theron in-game Pubside prior to Popsicle Time, he says he won’t hesitate to reach out (unlike what he did this time).  

Then we get the “For When You Wake Up” letter.  It reveals that Theron is in love, whether or not he wants to openly acknowledge it yet. He doesn’t send a letter to an unromanced player stating that the fact they’re still alive is “the thing that keeps [him] going.”  And he’s also worried, nervous, or even scared that the feelings are not mutual -- “I don’t want to presume.”  

The Theron romance starts in KotFE the night of his arrival. The kiss can be a tentative “let’s try this,” and then dating starts.  I took it as “let’s go back to my place” and a full-blown committed relationship starts between Theron and my smuggler.  There are other interpretation in between.  Any way a person shakes it,  Theron had been holding on to his Yavin hook-up for five years in his heart.  Based upon letters you get throughout these two expansion pacs, Theron still has workaholic tendencies.  He still struggles with the writing of words and expressing love publicly – but he is attached, and painfully so, as we see in Chapter 12, when the player goes on an impromptu camping trip with Marr and Satele.  In my interpretation of all of that, love is still difficult – but not because of the reasons Theron had prior to Eternal Fleet, when he was fully committed to SIS and the Republic.  It’s because in order to save the galaxy from the Sith Emperor, the player may have to be sacrificed for the greater good.  Theron can’t step into their shoes on this one; he can’t take their place.  

After the main KotET chapters, we see the Traitor arc and all of its flaws – but also the consistency of Theron’s character, if we remember how he believes in a better future, even if he doesn’t get to live to see it.  That does include potentially sacrificing his romantic relationship with the player and possibly his life as well.  If the player chooses to kick Theron out of the Alliance, the question of where he goes next is valid – he won’t go back to the Republic, and he’s not an Imperial. Where is Theron Shan, in those player universes?

If Theron (and his romance) survives to Echoes of Oblivion, we see a letter that is downright gleefully sweet.  His mother isn’t dead, and it’s because of you that he has a chance to try to make something of that relationship…again.  I’ve expressed my skepticism about this, since this is the exact set-up we had prior to Eternal Fleet, and then Satele ghosted Theron.  We’ll see; I may be a bit of a cynic or an angstmonger.  The point is, the way the romance is written to this point, Theron is happily in love with his partner/spouse. Love is for him, after all. 

Even without the romance, a living Theron in the Alliance (or whatever it is now) in Echoes of Oblivion is one that has attachments to friends and potentially family again.  There is a future -- and he’s in it.  That may have been more than what Theron was anticipating when we first met him at 23, nearly 17(!) years ago. 

[shipping1addict]

So I played KOTET and KOTFE for the second time now and started Onslaught again...

Tbh I love both of them. As you might know, I played SWTOR as a free2player since 2015 and therefore only got to expierence only class stories. (Until last year of course) But both DLCs changed the whole vibe of the game - if you want to call it that.

Even the relatively short-lived story on Makeb and SoR felt more like the class stories than a proper DLC but I still liked them. They were the perfect introduction to KOTET and KOTFE for me.

And while I only played both DLCs with non-force sensitive characters, which was quite hilarious and illogical at some points in the story, I still enjoyed them. Both of them were a really great and thrilling expierence. I loved the story and I find it to have great replayability.

The re-introduction to Malgus and him surviving the events on Ilum, resulting with a collaboration on Ossus was also more like a warm up to Onslaught but never the less interesting. Very easy and fast to play through. (Keep in mind, I only played past SoR with imperial classes)

Onslaught itself isn't that interesting tbh. Of course there is a new constellation within the empire but the dynamic with both the empire and the republic seem to be the same. Feels like the class stories again.

And I'm not (really) complaining about that, it's just not comparable to KOTET nor KOTFE.

---

What really brought me to writing this post was my desire to replay the DLCs again. This time with a force user and since my Jedi consular is the only one, with whom I finished SoR I most likely will start with them.

I already played every class but wasn't subscribed to SWTOR until April so I'd have to replay every other class again and some of them simply don't interest me enough.

Well.. Maybe I'll start with my Jedi, maybe I'll finish Onslaught with my agent first. Let's see what happens.

[pestopascal]

which class companions are your favorites in swtor? i find it funny you always exclude skadge in fics

skadge? idk him............ skjhdkfh but srsly i rly dont care for him so he doesnt exist for me (save for being the person to muck with doc’s plans basically  i think that was him ).

but uhh to answer ur Q..... my faves are definitely the inquisitor crew like i LOVE that funky bunch but i played si first, the story is so funny to me, like in the grand scheme of things wyd to actually have any impact on literally anything jedi/sith wise....... like i love them. they set such a fun standard for everyone else. idk. it was just a RLY good time i love the story so much i love the crew i just. i did the entire inquisitor storyline again in like 2 days i missed it SO MUCH i feel a lot of inner peace now

also i should say that i have only ever completely done class story thru to like. onslaught now on my inquisitor so like i played a solid 2 weeks in 2017 doing everything and ofc when u get to kotfe/kotet and start recruiting rando companions im like WHO ARE THESE PPL and still dont rly know them so my impressions are absolutely minimal and the inquisitor crew set a standard for me entirely

after inq, i would honestly probably put in the bounty hunter crew bc i love all of them except skadge ❤️ he’s a nasty lil afterthought bc its like they remembered that bh is empire side and they were like OH FUCK GOTTA BE EVIL here have this mass murderer on ur team enjoy. like it was getting too campy clearly. i rly just love the interactions and how funny they were up until belsavis like bioware realising they were running outta planets to give me a new companion its okay i just need the four thanks u can keep skadge.......

and THEN idk like. i still havent finished smuggler, trooper or agent (havent even started the former). so i would probably say my only two faves for the warrior are quinn and vette bc i literally dont think about pierce or feel anything for broonmark. OMG OR JAESA I FORGOT ABOUT HER LOL!!!!!!! i made her LS just bc DS jaesa is TOO edgy for me but i think alfrinn would mess up and turn her DS also just bc it was so funny having the LS dialogue about fixing the empire or whatever and its like girl Shut Up youre not ashara u wish u were.....

i rly didnt mind the consular companions i just didnt rly click so much but im gonna replay the consular anyway soon? bc i wanna try some new things/dont honestly remember The Plot™. i did like zenith and qyzen a lot honestly but yeah like. im gonna replay, figure some shit out, make more in character choices bc i just rolled a togruta and went with it

i dont mind the knight companions obviously but yeah same kind of deal? i think the knight story rly had smth going but kind of lost it and went back to the typical hero storyline so idk i was just like completely amazed they were like YEAH YOU WERE A SITH and ignored that but okey! scourge promising to train my bloodline in the ways of the sith was heartwarming. i didnt rly talk/pay attention to rusk like at all, but yeah i think there was a lot of plot threads kind of spread out that were. ignored. so like kira’s whole thing i just ??????? through, i lov teeseven obviously, and doc. yknow. the proposal was rly cute bye.

i got like halfway thru imperial and i meeeetttt vector? i think? is as far as i rly got/paid attention. i just dont rly like the whole joiner dealio going on at all with him so i DONT know what i think. idk how to feel about kaliyo either? she reads like a straight man’s wet dream about an “empowered bisexual woman who can kick my ass”. like just admit ur into femdom and go............. but like again. havent rly played much, spent more time complaining about being a sniper, ive rerolled and i think just arrived on dromund kaas again so restart! yeah!

[badsithnocookie]

bitter question asks

tagged by the lovely @buffkreia. tagging anyone who wants to i guess. you. yes, you, personally. answer these questions now. (or don’t. it’s up to you.)

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

satele/marr (wat). anyone/marr. anyone/malgus.

Are there any popular fandom OTPs you only BroTP?

vette+sw. any variant on teacher+student (sw/jaesa, jc/nadia, etc). (jk/kira is... borderline, since kira is more a peer than a student, whereas jaesa/nadia/ashara are very much students of the player character, with ds!jaesa being not just a student but an abused one at that).

Have you ever unfollowed someone over a fandom opinion?

hell yes. i once unfollowed someone (who is since long deactivated) for posting “tivva and her old moff cutesy headcanons”. what the fuck, fandom. 

i also make a habit of unfollowing people who do Shit that i complain about on the regular (fascism/wh-te s-premcy rhetoric apologetics, ab-se shippers, etc). (though i am more picky about who i follow than i used to be. for a lot of people though it’s nothing personal, i am just a Weirdo who likes to read their entire dash, so i keep the number of blogs i follow low. but if we interact on anything resembling the regular i probably have a nose at your bagel anyway)

Do you have a NoTP in your fandom? Are they a popular OTP?

as above most/any variant on teacher/student.

jk/scourge. i’ve seen it done ICly exactly once. most of the time scourge is rewritten as a noble romantic knight in edgy armour and not the manipulative borderline-stalker that he is. i hate the pairing for the shitty characterisation that usually accompanies it and i hate the pairing for the abusive relationship it would be were he IC. there is no winning move here except not to play.

corso/smuggler. i get the feeling that most people into this pairing like corso as they want him to be, not corso as he is. or maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part, idk.

doc/quinn. this pairing is peak White Fujoshi and i hate it. i hate the examples where it’s doc repeatedly hitting on an increasingly uncomfortable quinn, because haha sexually harassing someone is both hilarious and hot am i right. i hate the examples where it’s quinn seducing doc for intel on the resistance (protip: that’s rape!). i hate it i hate it i hate it if i never see it again it will be too soon

Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?

f!sw/almost anyone male, as a result of the endless shitty revenge adultery abuse fics that are all over quinn fandom. not all f!/sw/anyone male fics/ships fall into this category, but most of them seem to, especially /theron and /pierce.

(something something why is it that the majority of people who write f!sw/men of colour only do so in order to generate manpain for a white dude, huh)

Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?

nope.

Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now?

pugging EV/KP

Have you received anon hate? What about?

until i switched off anon, yes. it was fifty percent “you say mean things about quinn and that makes you an awful person” and fifty percent “you say nice things about quinn and that makes you an awful person”. proof that no matter what i do, i will never make The People happy. conclusion: do whatever the fuck i want

Most disliked character(s)? Why?

scourge. because i have an irrational dislike of people who manipulative borderline stalkers, who threaten to kidnap the children of others so they can be “raised correctly” into an abusive reactionary religious order.

Most disliked arc? Why?

republic makeb is where logic and my will to live go to die.

kotet is equal parts ‘empire apologia’, ‘vaylin torture porn’, and ‘excuses to be violent towards koth’. appo hates.

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

koth vortena. both for his intrinsic qualities as a character and because of the endlessly terrible way he is treated by the fanbase and th devs both. if i had a penny for every “but he said valk was good to zakuul” i would never have to worry about my income again.

jaric kaedan. he’s great i love him. grumpy, arguably less than ls, but passoinately dedicated to the jedi and the republic. hates scourge on sight. badassed the Dread Masters into submission. pushes for the jedi to take action in a war targeted at wiping them out instead of hiding behind the republic. he’s just *chef’s kiss*

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

the jc story. imp makeb.

Unpopular opinion about XXX character?

major anri exists only to put a likeable face on the empire. she and brax are incredibly deliberate (not to mention hamfisted) attempts to Humanise(tm) a genocidal imperialistic fascist regime and to attempt to play on the guilt of players/characters who take the saboteur route. sadly what bioware seem to fail to realise is that i traded my ability to feel sorry for the empire for a magic bean. it was completely worth it.

Unpopular opinion about your fandom?

swtor fandom is a dumpster fire. racism, misogyny, fascism apologia, ablism, we got it all, folks. in that respect it is not abnormal for fandoms but this is neither an excuse nor a selling point.

it is also not welcoming in the slightest if you take issue with any of the above.

Unpopular opinion about the manga/show/game?

the old method of unlocking travel waypoints was way more immersive (even if it was a colossal pain in the ass). exploring the depths of belsavis for the first time was awe inspiring - seeking out ancient forgotten tech to dig into secrets locked away for untold millenia.

yes, it was a huge pain in the ass, especially if you were on your nth alt. i’d be fine with some system (maybe legacy based) where waypoints/speeder points for a planet are unlocked once you’ve completed the planetary story for the first time (or something). there is so much content in the game that just gets missed by first time players because bioware want to rush them through to the very end and it sucks.

If you could change anything in the show, what would you change?

invent a time machine, arrange for the firing of those who okayed kotfe and its shitty story that glorified a repeat abuser and its shitty gameplay and its total lack of repeatable group content in an mmo. make the writers produce something that a. actually stayed true to the themes of star wars and b. didn’t glorify an abusive genocidal shitlord like valkoriate.

then find myself some lottery numbers and set up a fund for giving out money to people who are reduced to begging on social media for medical bills.

Does not shipping something ‘popular’ mean you’re in denial and/or biased?

shipping drama worst drama

What is the purest ship in the fandom?

vette/spewie

What are your thoughts on crack ships?

crackships which require you to ignore or worse betray a character’s personality (satele/marr, quinn/elara) - kill on sight

everything else - whatever

Popular character you hate?

darth marr. he is so overrated i don’t even know what to say. he has no personality, nothing. he didn’t even have a unique va in vanilla. he’s a shitty empty space that empire fandom hyped up up and away because he memes well and i loathe him.

Unpopular character you love?

i’m pretty sure this i a repeat of that question up there where i enthused about jaric kaedan

Would you recommend XXX to a friend? Why or why not?

join me in hell

Most shippable character?

eva kaayz. everyone needs a cute bisexual mirialan in their life.

Least shippable character?

darth marr. valkoriate. skadge.

[sharkiegorath]

Okay cause I don't think I've ever seen your thoughts on this. Thoughts on sparing Arcann.

WOW this is was a well-timed ask, thank you! I recently finished KOTFE for the first time and let Senya leave with Arcann. 

Short answer: I’ll spare him; it’s probably my ‘canon’ outcome. I don’t like the Voss sucking out all of the ‘badness’ through a vague procedure - which is annoying, since the Shrine of Healing is one of my favourite parts of the base game. I would’ve liked seeing more of that reflection instead of, like, near-literally vacuuming everything out of him with no indication that he’s fighting internally. I don’t frown upon people killing him but I’m also not a fan of disc horse about how he’s The Worst Ever and “there are some things you can’t come back from”, because by SW standards he’s a fairly mild villain. I’m annoyed with that line of thinking in the first place, but in this particular case I don’t think it’s even worth the moral debate. 

Longer answer: 

For me, the problem with Arcann’s arc (hehehehehehe) was that I didn’t care about what he’d done wrong. I’ve been desensitized by everything that happened prior to KOTFE, up to Ziost. On a galactic level, Arcann hadn’t done anything significantly worse than several Sith had; the older atrocities felt more personal since the ‘Outlander’ was very conscious when they happened and we saw/heard the effects instead of casually learning about it afterwards (e.g. Angral, Jadus). He hadn’t been guilty of major hypocrisy like Belsavis for the Republic. iirc he hadn’t endorsed bigotry or slavery. His 'crime’ against 'me’ was stealing five years from my character’s life - but that wasn’t his goal, he planned to have an indefinite trophy. And every time he appeared, it hammered in that he cared about killing Valkorian more than anything. 

Since most of my characters consistently take LS options, I don’t have many reasons not to spare him. They might not like him, but they sympathise with Senya and they have their own pasts with family difficulties.

I understand why people dislike Arcann because of how the narrative frames his 'redemption’, especially when compared to how the narrative treats Vaylin. So I guess that’s reason enough to kill him. And from an in-character perspective, it’s natural if other people’s Outlanders don’t forgive him. But on the other hand, I don’t really complain that he’s not genuinely contrite or contrite enough. tbh some criticism of Arcann’s 'redemption’ feels like a perfunctory “you did bad, you must be punished” response rather than an actual emotional reaction to severe injustice. Which Is Not Great. 

HOWEVER: 

Back when KOTET first came out I made notes about how I’d consider killing Arcann (and by extension, Senya) on certain characters. Not because I dislike them, but because I preferred Lana and Theron’s replacement roles at the end. If Arcann and Senya are dead, Lana and Theron are the ones who accompany the Outlander to the throne room. They get a nice scene together which ties into the canon last scene; it adds better context to Lana’s attitude throughout the Traitor arc. 

There’s also a scene in the turbolift where Valkorian freezes time to ~plant doubt~ about the Outlander’s current companions. As much as I hate the subsequent Traitor storyline, it does make sense for Valkorian to question whether Lana and Theron would stay loyal. After all, they were both Intelligence/spies and traitors to the Empire/Republic, who have histories of suggesting you do Bad things. It’s significantly less believable when Valkorian tries to plant doubt about Arcann or Senya, considering how he had abused them. 

AND…if Arcann and Senya are dead, they reappear anyway to beat Valkorian up. When they’re alive, iirc it isn’t clear how they beam into the Outlander’s mind to fight him. (The holocron??? I guess???) When Lana and Theron are there, they’re at least protecting the Outlander while the mind stuff is going on. If it’s Arcann and Senya, they abruptly go from fighting Skytroopers to joining the Outlander in the mind stuff. 

But ultimately, I think I’d only want to play this version once.   

[tishinada]

Really late to the party, but I finally started a character through KotET last night after I got internet back. I probably have close to 25 characters who’ve finished KotFE by now, lol. Phenixee, one of my smugglers, and who is romancing Koth, which was the main reason I picked her (also, I’m not so invested in her that I’m worried about long-term consequences of stupid choices, lol...)

And let me say, I now hate the walker segment of Chapter 1 with a burning passion. I’d wondered why people complained about it. But it is SO IRRELEVANT to anything about your character (I run stealth classes mostly...) and certainly not anything I’m playing the game for. And it’s so EFFING SLOW! It seems to exist either to please a group of fans who want to stomp things or to pad the chapter by an extra 10 to 15 minutes.

I rather enjoyed chapter 2 with Acina (the dialogue between her and a smuggler can be pretty funny.) Though...let’s just say my lightest smuggler ever will be working off a few dark-side points now. Turns out, hiring an army of assassins to try to stage two coups is more than she’s willing to take a chance someone might not try again, even from a prison cell.

And chapter 3, which I did early this morning, was intriguing. I’d heard complaints about the mouse droid, but it didn’t take me very long (it helped I knew more or less what would be involved.) I know some people consider that the last straw with Koth, but he *did* have the right idea. And they got to annoy Lana by being obnoxiously cute a couple of times...

Haven’t really started chapter 4 yet, but maybe tonight...

[oolathurman]

16-21 for the swtor admissions!

swtor guilty admissions

16. How often do you go on operations? On flashpoints?

Okay so the thing about ops is that, I pretty much can’t do them at all cuz I’ve never once consistently subbed for like. even 6 months straight. I think I’ve completed one or two ops the entire time I’ve played, and tried but failed to finish at least a couple more?

Flashpoints I do a lot more, since that’s available to f2p/preferred status players. I haven’t done too many recently cuz I’ve been sort of avoiding anything to do with post KOTET stuff until I get Wanwo through it all, and even if I know I can just unclick the box for the post kotet flashpoints... I just. don’t. :’)

However, if any of yall need a healer and are on the star forge server, hmu and I’d be happy to heal :D Admittedly, only my pub side healers are geared for any non-vet-mode FPs, but I’m fairly confident I can do an alright job regardless. :’)

17. How many heroics can you do in a row?

Depends if I’m running it with someone! If I’m soloing it, I can maybe finish one planet’s worth of heroics... if I’m with someone, at least two. Probably doesn’t help I tend to play only at night, and since I’m on the west coast, a lot of people are gonna head to bed not too long after I get online lol.

18. How many times have you done KOTET? KOTFE?

I’ve completed KOTFE... twice? KOTET once? They’re not my fav tbh... :’) Probably doesn’t help I’m a healer main so it takes even longer lol. 

19. What’s the most often you have started and completed a class story? Which one?

Okay, hands down, it’s gonna be either Sith Warrior or Jedi Consular. I’d have to check how many I have of either, but for sure I have more Consulars at max level than I do Warriors. Like I said, I’m a healer main, and honestly, the Consular storyline is one of my favorites. 

Both Consular and Warrior were the first two stories I completed, and don’t get me wrong I love the Agent story, but I like having a lightsaber in a star wars game, y’know? If I’m gonna be playing a game that involves space wizards with laser swords, I’m gonna play space wizards with laser swords lol. 

20. How many times have you done the planet storylines and finished them?

.... ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I don’t even want to think about it lmao. For as many toons as I have finished a class storyline, I’ve done the planet storyline. It’s basically required for preferred/f2p players to play in order to have enough EXP to stay leveled, especially if you’re not too interested in the group content as much as people who regularly do raids/ops/pvp. 

And I will always complain about the preferred/f2p restrictions in swtor. Always. :T

21. How many times have you done the side missions? The exploration missions?

Y’know, at one point, I was forced to do those too in order to keep at the average level of the planet. It used to be that, in order for preferred/f2p players to be at an appropriate level, we had to do ALL of the side quests and ALL of the exploration missions. The exploration missions didn’t have a toggle, instead they were just there when you arrived in the area, and we had to do those as well as the planetary bonus arcs that appeared post planet completion. 

Do you want to know how much fucking time I spent on Tatooine and Hoth alone???? Way too much!!!!! When swtor first came out and I played a little after launch (The moment they released f2p/preferred status options for players. Yeah! They didn’t used to have those too!), I took like. I’m pretty sure I took at least one year to complete the Sith Warrior story alone. We had to not only complete all those missions, literally every goddamn one. 

I was also undergeared for the Baras fight, this was my first MMO and I didn’t know anyone else to play with or to give me advice, and so I had to fight Baras back when there was no level scaling for each planet. You’d have an actual level 50 boss battle with Baras, you’d be forced to use Quinn as a companion because he was your only healer companion, and I’m pretty sure I wiped on that fight at least ten or twenty times alone. Also back then, you had to have specific commendations (kinda like medals i guess???) in order to get gear mods, and I could only ever really afford it for one or two pieces of armor, so like. Good fucking lord. That was so much. 

... So in short, I’ve done the side missions + exploration missions for the vanilla planets more times than I care to count. Sorry for going into a “kids these days” style rant lmao.

[menollywanderer]

Ugh, my heart is breaking. Why do the squeaky wheels always get the grease? In this instance the negative Nancy’s who talked trash about KOTFE and the companion chapters. From the Dev Tracker (http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php :

A) The original plan was that we would have a trilogy of "Knights of" expansions focused on dealing with Valkorion and his Eternal Empire, with episodic chapters between them. The major story beats would occur in the expansions, while the episodic chapters would be just that: episodic, mostly stand-alone beats focused on returning companions and side stories.

B) The most common issues that we saw from the community feedback after KOTFE and the first few monthly chapters were:

The story felt dragged out (monthly chapters in particular)

At least partly due to #1, the companion-focused chapters were not as well-received as the KOTFE ones (although desire to get companions back remained high).

Many players felt that there weren't enough choices in the storyline with big enough impacts/consequences, or that those impacts/consequences were delayed so far that they didn't feel meaningful or connected.

Nevermind the people who loved KOTFE and the lovely whole chapters dedicated to the return of a long lost companion.  We were too quiet and didn’t complain like incessant annoying fools who ended up getting their way because they were jerks about it. Dev Tracker:

C) Changes that were made as a result of that feedback:

We compressed the story such that it would be completed in Knights of the Eternal Throne.

Later monthly chapters were modified to focus more on the core storyline, and less on companion returns.

The writers constructed the storyline of KOTET specifically to offer bigger choices that would pay off in visible and interesting ways.

They compressed the story, yeah that doesn't surprise me and it explains a lot about the lack of cohesion and reality in KOTET. I don't know about anyone else but it definitely seemed like things were missing and that the story they had so carefully set up in Kotfe was torn apart and made almost unintelligible in Kotet. Dev Tracker:

D) The end result: the overall storyline was cut down by more than a third so that it would play out more quickly, while simultaneously introducing more choices and consequences.Companion returns had to be put on the backburner to achieve these changes, and my original plan to do entire chapters for each of them just aren't feasible at this point, so we're currently working on plans to get them back as expediently as possible. (If I sound a little sad about that part in particular, I am, but I think it's perfectly reasonable that folks are out of patience on that one)

No! We are not out of patience! I would wait a year to get a companion back if it meant a whole chapter with them and not this awful drivel of a wave and a peck and wham your companion is back never to be heard from again because they now enter the oubliette of "you had a chance to kill them thus they are no longer relevant to the story and will never be heard from again"! (Don't even get me started on their obsession with killing all the companions off)

Please Bioware! The companions and story are the main reason I play Swtor and now here is a Dev saying that we will never get those chapters with our companion, we will never get that time.  The new norm will be five sentences with your companion if that and then they are effectively shoved to the back into the void. You are sad Charles? Well think about how sad the rest of us are that we are getting the cheap knockoff companion returns instead of the rich story telling that many of us have always thought Bioware provided in spades, until now.

This kills me and I feel like if I had just found a way to let these guys know that Kotfe was loved, that more story and more time with companions would have been a dream come true, then maybe the whiners wouldn't have won this round.

[rainofaugustsith]

SWTOR: On introversion, open world and MMOs

Every now and then one gets a reminder that varied people see social interaction in varied ways, and what is Heaven for one person is hell for another. 

If I see an image of a person sitting alone, my first thought is almost never "they must be lonely" unless they actually appear to be crying or in distress. 99% of the time I just assume the person is having some great quality time with themselves. Are they eating alone? I bet it's a good meal. Seeing a movie alone? They get to concentrate without anyone distracting them. Traveling alone? Cool, they get a lot of time to see what they want! I assume they're having a great time. I'm honestly confused as to why people would think that enjoying one's own company would be a bad thing.

It's the same sort of confusion that I feel when people complain about instances and want more and more grouping in MMOs like SWTOR. I know there are those who feel that MMO = "Grouping is Compulsory." I do not, for various reasons. In SWTOR, where the class stories and most content can be cleared solo, this applies even more, I feel. 

Some of the complaints about KOTFE and KOTET were that neither were open world. Complaints about the Galactic Seasons Fleet penthouse were that you can't see people running around the VIP area or the Fleet itself (this one I truly do not get...why would you really have a desire to see all the PCs leading their female companions around in degrading slave costumes and rakghoul-infected players exploding and all the rest?). Some people seem to want nothing but open world. Others want forced grouping and PVP. There are those who really, really want Legacy friending and can't seem to understand why someone would not want to be contacted every single time they're online on any character. 

For what it's worth, that seems to be the stance SWTOR's devs are embracing in some ways. But be careful what you ask for and all - they are taking it farther by not only trying to push people toward group play, but group play with strangers. Galactic Seasons' objectives skew heavily to PVP and GSF. The solo objectives cannot be shared with friends. You can't just do veteran flashpoints with your guild or friends; they have to be through group finder. That makes it less fun even for those who would actually enjoy doing content in a group. 

From all accounts the culture in PVP is so toxic that a lot of people such as myself would never go near it with a ten foot pole, and I've heard similar complaints about flashpoints on group finder. There's a reason people want to play with friends and not random people on the street and all. 

As for open world play, again, I don't really know why anyone wants this.  I understand wanting to see activity on Odessen or in the cities on each planet, but is it really that important that you see random players running around as you're trying to complete quests? For myself, all open world means is that playing may be unpleasant. It means that getting the quest done, or having any fun, depends entirely on the players in the area not being jerks. It might mean that other players block the NPC who is talking in cut scenes. It might mean that ten of us are trying to get the same blue clickable. It might mean waiting long periods of time for respawns. And grouping doesn't necessarily help with this because the mobs and clickables usually are still fewer than the groups. 

Despite the issues I have with story in KOTFE, KOTET and the traitor arc? They're instanced. *chef's kiss* Onslaught? A lot of it is instanced too. Well done. Echoes? Again. And even though I don't like the long tedious flashpoints like Spirit, I'm grateful that it's just my PC running around on those Mandalorian ships as opposed to my PC trying to compete with ten other players for the same stuff. 

I feel that on some level Bioware is trying to do a balancing act by switching up the content types, and trying to appease all. There are people who would leave if it were all instanced. There are people who would leave if it were all open world. There are certainly those like me who find group play to be a miserable experience. Maybe that is all they can do.

[arkannis]

ok i was complaining about onslaught being short and underwhelming but then i realized it was literally because i played both KOTFE and KOTET. onslaught was like shadow of revan or rise of the hutt cartel

the structure of kotfe/kotet combined felt like ONE BIG expansion so thats why i felt weird after

[wrathetc]

@emperor-shitpost:

Since you don't have asks on, or for some reason they don't appear to me, do the meme for SWTOR (obviously, coming from me...)

Okay well asks are on now! And here are answers.

How I entered/learned about the said game/show/movie/etc of that fandom

I have loved Star Wars ever since I was a small child who loved R2D2 more than anything (this was when the original trilogy was first happening, because I am an Old), but one of my WoW (and real life) friends got into SWTOR at launch and convinced me to join. I say ‘convinced’, but all it took was me knowing about it. I’ve played off and on since then but this is the longest/most concentrated ‘on’ time I’ve had so far.

Fave character

LANA BENIKO MY SPACE WIFE

Least fave character

I get why some people like Corso but on my smuggler he was just annoying and always there and being super possessive and patronizing even when I wasn’t romancing him. I haven’t met Skadge yet though so maybe he’ll be worse.

Also most Jedi NPCs that are found in non-Jedi stories. The sanctimonious and condescending attitude, the whole thing where if you’re Sith they insist you can’t possibly be okay or happy as you are and they are the experts on your own mind instead of you, reminds me way too much of the fundamentalist religion I grew up in and I really have no patience for it.

OTP(s)

I am Quinn trash, so SW/Quinn. I also love my trooper with Jorgan although it did take me some time to warm up to him. And Lana with anyone I have, which so far my SI and JK are hers.

Pairing that everyone likes but I don’t get

I don’t understand JK/Scourge? I like him as a character, and would love to have had more discussions on light side vs. dark side with him (and call him on his whole “don’t preach to me about the light side but I can feel free to push you toward being sith” thing) but I don’t get the romance part.

Fave thing about the fandom

The tumblr side of it, with all the art and wonderful fic and pretty great people. I started this tumblr account specifically for the swtor stuff and I have not been disappointed. Confused sometimes, maybe, but not disappointed.

The most despised thing

The reddit side of it, with the fanboy entitlement and all the negativity and complaining about EVERYTHING.

If there is something I would change from said game/show/movie/etc., what would it be.

Having choices actually matter, even if it would give me anxiety that I was doing something that some companion I loved would disapprove of and hate me forever for it somewhere down the line. 

Particularly in KOTFE/KOTET, being able to decide more how you respond to things (it always bothers me that my characters just go off to talk to Valk in KOTFE 12 with no objection or even discussion at all). 

Definitely more time with romanced companions. 

Having the conversation choices as stated on the list you click on match more closely to what your character is actually going to say! 

And I would love to be able to save messages from NPCs in some form rather than just having them expire from your mailbox in a month.