Saw the ghost movie that I was really excited about. Was disappointing. Ultimately it was just really…okay or downright bad in the parts that weren’t concert footage. More specific comments below the cut because spoilers, I guess, but there’s really nothing that happens in this movie that matters enough to count as a spoiler.
First, if this had just been concert footage, it would have been much more enjoyable. The movie parts were not at all interesting and each cutaway made it drag on and on. I hadn’t slept well the night before the showing, so the movie itself wasn’t the reason I was dozing off at some parts…but it also wasn’t helping keep me AWAKE outside of the concert footage. No complaints about that footage (mostly, but I’ll get back to it later).
Story: whoops, Tobias Forge can’t write! Sorry, that’s a bit mean, but…I paid money to watch this, so I’ll be a little bit mean. Seriously, this thing needed at least a couple more passes with the script. Every. single. conversation. as repeating what was already brought up in the OPENING voiceover: Cardi doesn’t wanna die, doesn’t wanna stop fronting for Ghost, but everything ends eventually. Yes, we GET IT. We do not need several scenes of Cardi with his parents saying it over and over again with no additional information added to understand that. After the opening VO, we could’ve just had one scene of Cardi looking a bit forlornly at himself in the mirror, and then Sister Imperator happily telling him that “things are going to be changing in the clergy soon!” or something like that and he looks unhappy.
That’s what I thought we were getting at first, but then it just. Kept happening??? Like oh my god Tobias, I get it, Cardi doesn’t want this to end, I KNOW. The quality of the writing suggests that Tobias is one of three things: incompetent at writing anything longer than a short (maybe, but the other two are a bit more likely), had no real story to tell and this could’ve been one of the shorts so he had to pad it out to an insufferable length (definitely), or so full of himself that he thought “eh, I don’t actually have anything to say, but this way I’ll get to be on screen the whole time and the only writer credited,” (probable). It’s just so offensive considering I know there were so many resources available to make this GOOD: more time, writing assistance or hiring a real writer, etc. and yet they were not taken advantage of. If this was something just put up on YouTube I really couldn't care less about the quality, but if you're charging money for this AND are as big as Ghost is, you can't expect to slide by with mediocrity. Except he will, because apparently everyone else loved this thing. Okay. Also, the humor overall just fell super flat. There were several moments where I was like, "wait, was that a joke? was I meant to laugh there?" because they were just nothing. Also, there was a fart joke. Okay.
Acting: sorry, I’m going to be mean again. The acting in the movie parts was very. Hit or miss is what I’m gonna call it. The voice acting in the voiceovers at the beginning and the end were oddly rushed in several places? They weren’t placing words in very natural ways and it just felt like they needed to do another take for some of the lines. It’s especially noticeable in the beginning voiceover because in most of it he’s speaking at a slower pace and it’s perfect and sounds great, but then he just…speeds up sometimes? And it doesn’t feel intentional and isn’t in places that make it feel like it makes sense to speed up for dramatic effect. In Sister Imp’s voiceover at the end, she is also just speeding through it and it’s incredibly awkward, because in a lot of places it’s noticeably faster than she’s speaking in her other scenes. Like, guys, you know you can shoot more footage right??? You can put some b roll in??? You don’t have to squeeze the whole speech into the shorter shot you have if it’s going to compromise the actor’s delivery.
Tobias' acting was passable for the whole thing, though that might be partially because he's not acting with his face as much as the others, so it's less noticeable when something isn't quite working. Sister Imp did a fine job for the most part, excluding her VO and some awkwardness (and no, not intentional awkwardness) in a couple scenes with Papa Nihil. Papa was also fine; nothing to write home about but nothing terrible stood out to me. Most of the issues probably came from the special effects on him to make him ghostly, which I'm presuming involved him being on a green screen or something (I have no clue. Idk anything about making effects lmao.) I'm NOT going to really review the acting of the stagehands because that's not their main job and they already had a lot of work to do, but it wasn't so bad as to take anything away from the scenes they're in. Basically, the acting overall was okay, but not great, and it adds to how much the scenes drag on for sure.
Tiny section about the animated Mary On A Cross segment: I'm not gonna comment on the bad animation, because it's on purpose and emulating old Hanna-Barbera cartoons. My issue is that it makes zero sense and goes nowhere. Nihil chases Sister Imp around for a while looking forlorn and sad and desperate, and she runs away/beats him up while looking pissed off until they come across a graveyard and she pulls him into a kiss. Then it cuts to Nihil naked in a hotel room in the morning while she storms off angrily....okay? And? What changed her mind? Why is she still angry in the morning? Why does this matter at all? Knowing that Papa IV was the product of a one night stand is a footnote if this is all we get from it. Just weird, and didn't fit the song IMO.
Editing: super frantic and distracting in places, particularly the fast cuts in the concert footage. It's just a lot and can be disorienting. Nothing is really allowed to sit on screen for very long (which is related to another point...) but at the same time, some of the movie shots just linger for no reason. They're just awkward and clunky and repetitive. Some people disliked the crowd shots, but I thought they were fun and cute and used sparingly enough. Shout out to the dude in the nun costume!
Weird lack of concert footage: what they chose to keep and what to cut was just confusing. Most of the footage was just Tobias singing, short shots of the Ghouls rocking out, and crowd footage. Almost none of the Ghoul antics that they're known for, unless Tobias was also in shot and involved. Whenever he went backstage and a Ghoul took the spotlight (I'm sorry, I can never remember who is who, but it was usually White Guitar Ghoul if I recall correctly), it cut to a story moment which, again, were boring, repetitive, and told us nothing. It just felt disrespectful to cut out so much of the Ghouls and their performances, especially because the crowd and the fans love them a lot. They add so much to Ghost's live shows and, in my opinion, are more important to Ghost than Tobias. I don't care if that's a "controversial" Ghost opinion to have, but it really is true. I think anyone could be any of the Papas. But the Ghouls, even when they get changed out, are always so talented, so energetic, so passionate, and make Ghost what it is in a live setting. They were also missing from all but one movie scene, where one of them asks if they're doing an encore, and for a second I thought the line had been spoken by one of the stagehands. That's it.
(Okay, there's also there in the scene where Sister Imp dies, but they're just standing there.)
I can't speak for if the Ghouls themselves felt a bit sidelined or disrespected by this. I can't say for certain if they even wanted a bigger presence outside of the concert footage. But I can definitely say that, from a fan perspective, the lack of the Ghouls compared to how OFTEN Tobias is on screen, backstage, doing NOTHING when we could be watching the Ghouls was GLARINGLY obvious. It felt weird and it felt uneven. I started getting really irritated by about the third time it cut backstage when I could be watching the Ghouls! It just led to the whole thing feeling super vain and self-important considering Tobias wrote the film to be this way. Some people have defended this by saying, "well, they're the Nameless Ghouls!" but that's bullshit. They're part of Ghost canon too, so why don't we get anything from them? We can't even see a little bit about how they might be feeling regarding a Clergy mix up? Whether they care about the current Papa, or anything like that? Involving them would feel so much more interesting than just another Papa, but this one wants to KEEP singing!! Again, maybe the Ghouls didn't want to be more involved...but it felt off.
I've never seen Ghost live, so I had no frame of reference for how much was cut from the concert footage aside from the lack of Ghoul antics, which is what they're known for, but apparently several people who were at the concerts filmed for this noticed a ton of footage that was cut (again, mostly Ghouls) that they thought would have been more fun to see compared to so many backstage shots. And yet we got the sequence of him in a boxing outfit, walking through the crowd, which ended with...nothing? He just...does that? Waste of time. (AND YES, I KNOW that it is a reference. That doesn't make it good. It didn't need to be there. Replace it with something relevant.) It just exemplifies how much time is wasted in this movie.
Special effects: oh my god did anyone even look at this movie before sending it out Jesus Christ. The special effects are so bad I was genuinely shocked. When Papa IV and Papa Nihil are talking while IV is in a box (for some reason?? I actually don't know why) Nihil is weirdly sized and not lined up properly. It was odd. The greenscreen was so godawful I was honestly amazed. It's YouTuber comedy sketch levels of greenscreen quality. What the fuck? Especially compared to the amazing performance and how much work is put into their live shows, the horrid effects stood out starkly. Another comment on Nihil: his face is hard to see in some scenes. His ghostly effects make his features kind of blur together sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't, so it clearly wasn't intentional. Just another odd thing. The effect of him getting sucked into his body for his sax performance was very, very bad. I know you had the option to put more time and/or money into the effects, Tobias. Why did you not. What is your problem. Why the fuck would you put out a product of this quality for money and act like it's okay, especially considering the fact that this was marketed as a lore-heavy MOVIE and not just a concert film? If this was a smaller production I would not rag on the effects, but I know for a fact that Tobias has the resources for this to be better, and he chose to not use them. Honestly, it feels disrespectful.
That's the crux of my issues with this movie, really. It was teased as a real movie with real lore and serious effects on the canon of Ghost, and it was none of those things. The lore amounted to Sister Imp dying, which means nothing, because ghosts, and Cardi becoming Frater Imperator at the very end and then the movie ending. It's NOTHING. There's also an end credit scene apparently, which I did not stay to view, because I didn't care and I had been sitting for long enough. Basically, there are ghosts (including Sister Imp, obvi) and then another cliffhanger about meeting the new Papa, and an implication that Cardi has a twin who might be the new Papa. People are freaking out about this possibility. I have no idea why. It really doesn't seem like a big deal at this point when all the Papas have a crazy family situation. A secret twin doesn't even feel like a twist, and it's certainly not enough to count as an addition to the lore when it hasn't even been confirmed. At the risk of sounding rude, fellow Ghost fans, raise your standards. You deserve better.
And that's the crux of my issues with this whole thing. It's mediocre, it's boring, it's absolutely nothing outside of some fun concert footage, and yet it was billed as a must-see film and cost real, actual money to view. If they had been honest about it being a concert movie, I'd have been fine with that! I think they're fun, especially for those of us who can't go to live shows. But we were told it would be more than that, and it wasn't. It feels disrespectful, like Tobias knew he could just put out some slop and people would be okay with it, and it feels even worse because in a way, he was right. Tons of Ghost fans loved this movie, but the more positive reviews I see, the clearer it becomes that they just loved the chance to see the concerts, and love Ghost. Loving Ghost didn't make me love this movie. It just made me disappointed and sad. We could have gotten a great film, but we got something that was low effort because it's obvious that you can take advantage of the fans of something by throwing them crumbs and dressing it up to seem nicer than it is.
I appreciate that individual people on this production put tons of effort into this; the crew, the actors (excluding Tobias) who were clearly doing their best with what they had, and yes, I'm sure even the effects people did what they could with what they had. But all of the parts that were clearly Tobias' call were not high enough quality to be in a movie.
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I might just go on a huge tangent on here so I sincerely apologize, but I think this is something you've slightly touched on before, so maybe it's interesting to you? About the fact that literally Nobody on the staff/people who work behind the scenes of everything in the kpop industry are credited, mentioned or acknowledged for their work (other than, for example, the surface level “the designer deserves a raise!!!” that i so often see in mv comments :/). What I wanted to talk about specifically though is the company’s complete lack of crediting of these people?? I wanted to look into who directed this new mv that just dropped that I really liked the artistry, editing, and general composition of, but I found absolutely nothing across the group’s yt videos or their pages of who the director is, perhaps the set designer, editor, etc. Utterly taken aback, I checked the descriptions of other kpop music videos, from the most popular to more unknown groups (Twice, Dongkiz, to name a few), and again, nothing. I thought I was going insane, so I looked at mvs for like Amercian bands, and their video details are completely filled with the information of the producer, the recording studio, mixer, master, etc. etc, my point is: so much more than just the group’s twitter or merch page??? I’m like what is going on?? I noticed the kpop mv's only list licensing info at least, but so did the american ones? Idk. It’s either me not knowing where to look, or maybe I’m late to the fact that that is just how things work with kpop group companies or the industry as whole, just giving you no details as to who the hell else worked on this mv or song. I love my biases and appreciate their contributions, but I do not buy for a second that, more often than not, they wrote or produced or mixed absolutely nothing. I think it’s a huge shame that this is done because it reinforces the false idea that the idols are the ones responsible for everything we’re seeing and listening to. Maybe that’s the point, and that’s exactly what the industry wants you to believe, which that just makes it really sad. (Wait also maybe it all gets hidden because its work for hire or the companies buy ownership copyright...)
so i want to clarify some things for you, from the perspective of someone who works in the arts industry. firstly, and most importantly: visible credits exist in western filmic media because of unions. and there are still a LOT of fields that are not unionized. for thousands of years it was fundamentally understood that no performance based art form was done singularly by an individual, so there was often not a reason for there to be 'credits' in the first place. the whole assuming the face of the project is the person who did the most work thing? that's a very new phenomenon in the history of art, and it's capitalism's fault.
secondly: um. you are definitely not looking in the right places bc people are ABSOLUTELY credited? especially music production staff? i guess if you only look at a music video then sure yea there's not always credits there, but companies literally release tracklists and highlight medleys on their main social medias AS PROMOTION that have LISTS of their arrangers and composers. hell, tan's most recent tracklist has their fucking midi programmer on it????
also..............the fucking ALBUMS HAVE CREDITS IN THEM. i can't believe i have to say this but THE ALBUMS ARE THE MAIN PRODUCT AND THEY HAVE PAGES OF CREDITS IN THEM. i...????
like???
i got addy (@hoforwonho) to send these to me, these are from a lucy album and nayeon's album, and they literally have pages of credits???
lastly, and most importantly: the only people who are being 'fooled' into thinking that idols are 'producing' most of the content are western fans. because that is the stereotype promoted BY THE WESTERN MUSIC INDUSTRY. so that is the lens through which you view the korean music industry. koreans and korean fans are well aware that idols do not produce their own artistic content, there is quite literally a stigma around idols in sk about how they are not viewed as artists SPECIFICALLY because of this. gdragon and jonghyun were HUGE deals for being some of the first idol producers + songwriters. music is a huge part of the korean entertainment industry and people who make music are very much a visible part of it. kim eana is a very famous lyricist and she has a popular radio show. kbs just did a whole competition show featuring producers as the contestants. companies are not required to put credits in music videos because music videos are only one part of a kpop cb, and they are also not obligated to put those credits in english. just because you can't find something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and the whole industry is at fault for it.
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Hi it's the previous anon, thank you so much for your answer!!
Im trying to read Jason and Damian run first when it comes to Robin because i hear bad things about them and i want to see how they gain such a reputation. Reading your answer honestly pretty sad. Those two don't deserve that :( I'm reading Jason's Robin run atm and i honestly i don't see him being the "angry robin". He's a pretty sweet boy so seeing how he's treated right now is yeah...
People that can't accept Damian as Robin seems to forget that Robin supposed to be a legacy, a mantle that's passed down. Treating him shit for that is really stupid. The fact they don't put into account how he's raised and how it'll affect his personality or current action is also quite inconsiderate of them. Dc really need to hire a better writer for them.
Beside that, i came across an article a couple of days ago and it looks like Tim is Robin again? That's hmmm...
SO real i love them so much and the fact that both of them and steph are thought of as the bad robins is literally so sad
the thing about jason being the "angry robin" is that he wasnt really until starlin came along. like he had his moments for sure, like when he found out that two face killed his dad he was Not Happy and kinda beat his ass about it lol, but besides that!! he was just a friend. but starlin really didnt want to write robin SO he basically tried to make him a lot worse then killed him. honestly kind of funny but so sad because he is just a little guy :( then now all the comics that look back at jasons robin time theyre like "ohhhh he was so angry and loved to kill!!!" and. ugh. let him be a nice robin.
side tangent but i would actually have no problem with jason being angry sometimes as robin if people would actually add ANY nuance to it. like yeah he was mad and beat two face a little! and he was okay with rapists dying! but now people are like "that makes him the Angry Bad Robin!!!" like shut the fuck up
but yeah! damian is literally just a different take on robin than tim and everyone that doesnt like that is boring. he has an interesting backstory and it actually affects his personality and people do not like that :( plus the fact that hes still being written like hes gotten no character development is so annoying because we keep going in circles with his character and i. just want an interesting story please let this kid grow dc
and about tim being robin. lol. lmao. yeah. basically since people liked him as robin So Much they gave him robin again. he was red robin for a while, then he was red robin but in a robin suit, then they just took away the "red" and let him be robin again (he was also called "drake" for a little bit in there but im not even gonna get into that). so now he is robin again while damian is still being written as "bad robin" and is separated from batman and all :( and he has his own robin book right now. right after damians robin book ended. and in the description of the first issue of tims book it literally said "Step aside Damian 😜 The world's favorite Robin is back! 😍" which is just so embarrassing for dc and so annoying for everyone that likes damian :/ please just let tim move on from robin i dont want to hear about him anymore
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