#Indian Language Text Translation

[unintentionalseductress]

You had me at LaDs again... 🥰

Time to spam the inbox.

SFW: In the language of flowers, what bouquet would each of boys create for their dear Hunter and why?

Flowers For You

Zayne:

I feel like this one is obvious but it would be jasmines.

Jasmines represent love, beauty, and sensuality, qualities I think represent Zayne's romantic side very well.

Jasmines represent immortal love. There's a legend from an Indian text about a princess falling in love with a sun god, and is murdered by her jealous ex-lover(Astra is that you?) because of it. When the princess's ashes are scattered, jasmines bloom from them. I'd like to think that even after all the misfortune Zayne has suffered, his love remains unwavering.

Their scent promotes relaxation but is also an aphrodisiac

Xavier:

Sunflowers. There's just nothing else to represent this man's light.

They represent strength, good fortune and loyalty. Considering how much space travel Xavier has done to find his queen, these qualities portray him accurately. He's endured a lot, and despite the urgency to save Philos, he remains loyal to his woman and takes a strong show of character as well.

They also are a symbol of hope, also tying in with Xavier's story that perhaps saving Philos does not mean having to lose the love of his life

Rafayel:

He'd send tulips. The variety of colors they come in brings out his artsy side.

Tulips represent unconditional love and rebirths which tie into his lore where he loves MC anyway despite her betrayal, and him hoping there's a better chance for their love with each new life he finds her in.

His bouquet would be full of red and pinks, since they represent affection and devotion.

Sylus:

Despite everything, Sylus is a traditional man. He'd send roses.

The classic flower to indicate romantic interest, he's going to make sure you're aware of his intentions. He'll probably send bouquets to your office, much to the envy of your colleagues, usually without a card because it's obvious who they're from.

He'll have Mephisto sneak single roses into random spots; your car's windshield, your kitchen window, on your pillow. It's his way of letting you know he's thinking of you.

© unintentionalseductress original work | no copying, plagiarizing or translating

[whencyclopedia]

The Indus Valley Civilization was a cultural and political entity which flourished in the northern region of the Indian subcontinent between c. 7000 - c. 600 BCE. Its modern name derives from its location in the valley of the Indus River, but it is also commonly referred to as the Indus-Sarasvati Civilization and the Harrapan Civilization. These latter designations come from the Sarasvati River mentioned in Vedic sources, which flowed adjacent to the Indus River, and the ancient city of Harappa in the region, the first one found in the modern era. None of these names derive from any ancient texts because, although scholars generally believe the people of this civilization developed a writing system (known as Indus Script or Harappan Script) it has not yet been deciphered. All three designations are modern constructs, and nothing is definitively known of the origin, development, decline, and fall of the civilization. Even so, modern archaeology has established a probable chronology and periodization: Pre-Harappan – c. 7000 - c. 5500 BCE Early Harappan – c. 5500 - 2800 BCE Mature Harappan – c. 2800 - c. 1900 BCE Late Harappan – c. 1900 - c. 1500 BCE Post Harappan – c. 1500 - c. 600 BCE The Indus Valley Civilization is now often compared with the far more famous cultures of Egypt and Mesopotamia, but this is a fairly recent development. The discovery of Harappa in 1829 CE was the first indication that any such civilization existed in India, and by that time, Egyptian hieroglyphics had been deciphered, Egyptian and Mesopotamian sites excavated, and cuneiform would soon be translated by the scholar George Smith (l. 1840-1876 CE). Archaeological excavations of the Indus Valley Civilization, therefore, had a significantly late start comparatively, and it is now thought that many of the accomplishments and “firsts” attributed to Egypt and Mesopotamia may actually belong to the people of the Indus Valley Civilization. The two best-known excavated cities of this culture are Harappa and Mohenjo-daro (located in modern-day Pakistan), both of which are thought to have once had populations of between 40,000-50,000 people, which is stunning when one realizes that most ancient cities had on average 10,000 people living in them. The total population of the civilization is thought to have been upward of 5 million, and its territory stretched over 900 miles (1,500 km) along the banks of the Indus River and then in all directions outward. Indus Valley Civilization sites have been found near the border of Nepal, in Afghanistan, on the coasts of India, and around Delhi, to name only a few locations. Between c. 1900 - c. 1500 BCE, the civilization began to decline for unknown reasons. In the early 20th century CE, this was thought to have been caused by an invasion of light-skinned peoples from the north known as Aryans who conquered a dark-skinned people defined by Western scholars as Dravidians. This claim, known as the Aryan Invasion Theory, has been discredited. The Aryans – whose ethnicity is associated with the Iranian Persians – are now believed to have migrated to the region peacefully and blended their culture with that of the indigenous people while the term Dravidian is understood now to refer to anyone, of any ethnicity, who speaks one of the Dravidian languages. Why the Indus Valley Civilization declined and fell is unknown, but scholars believe it may have had to do with climate change, the drying up of the Sarasvati River, an alteration in the path of the monsoon which watered crops, overpopulation of the cities, a decline in trade with Egypt and Mesopotamia, or a combination of any of the above. In the present day, excavations continue at many of the sites found thus far and some future find may provide more information on the history and decline of the culture.

[room-surprise]

PSA: Mana doesn't exist in Dungeon Meshi

Some translations of Dungeon Meshi (specifically the English anime and Yen Press manga) have used the word mana to describe magic, when the original Japanese simply said magic (mahou, 魔法) or magical power (maryoku, 魔力).

Ryoko Kui does not appear to use the word mana (マナ) at any point in the manga, the published extra materials, or her blog, so calling magic “mana” is an addition made only in some translations.

For example, the French translation does not use "mana." If you know of other translations that do or don't use mana, let me know!

The use of the word mana in English comes from Maori and its earlier Proto-Oceanic ancestor language.

It describes a form of supernatural power tied to social status, respect and strength. Mana is a religious concept for many Austronesian cultures, and is not really "magic" in the way pop culture has defined it.

As best as I can understand it from an outsider's perspective, mana is more like attributing a supernatural quality to a person's charisma, or the awe one feels when faced with a natural wonder like a mountain or the ocean, or the intimidation one feels when facing a powerful group.

The use of the word mana as a generic term to refer to magical power has been criticized as being cultural appropriation of a real religious term, still used by living people, to describe fictional magic.

In addition to this, using an Austronesian word at random in Dungeon Meshi for one of the most important and fundamental forces of the universe (magic) is inorganic to the world that Kui has constructed, which is rooted primarily in Greco-Roman, Hindu/Buddhist Indian, Middle Eastern, and Germanic cultures.

Using mana to refer to magic would suggest that the Ancient culture from before the cataclysm was Austronesian, but the rest of the manga does not support such an idea at all.

There are references to Austronesian and Oceanic cultures in Dungeon Meshi, but they are mostly tied to the orcs, who don't appear to use magic, and whose culture clearly doesn't, and has never had, the social power to define what word the rest of the world uses to refer to "magical power."

How did a Maori word get so popular in English?

The concept of mana was introduced in Europe by missionary Robert Henry Codrington in 1891 after he wrote a book about his time in Polynesia. The concept was then popularized further in America in the 1950s by Mircea Eliade, an extremely influential religious history scholar at the University of Chicago.

Mana was first introduced as a magical fuel used to cast spells in the 1969 short story, "Not Long Before the End", by Larry Niven. Around this time it also became popular with new-age religious groups.

It has since become a common staple in fantasy fiction and games.

So why translate it as mana?

The choice to translate "magic" and "magical power" as mana was probably made to try and make Dungeon Meshi sound more like a video game/RPG, since so many Japanese fantasy manga feature video game or RPG mechanics, and translators working on Dungeon Meshi would have no reason to assume it would be any different, especially at the very start of the manga.

However, Dungeon Meshi is much closer to High/Epic Fantasy, like Lord of the Rings, and throwing random gaming terminology into the translation when it wasn't in the original text ("mana", "newbs" and "inventory" instead of "magical power", "newcomers" and "supplies") feels out of place.

I think adding the term mana is a disservice to the hard work that Kui has done with her careful attention to linguistic detail and culture.

In the process of working on my Dungeon Meshi research paper on real world cultural references, I have studied over 100 names and words used by Kui, and I have found that she is remarkably thoughtful and consistent in what real world cultures and languages she pulls from, and what fictional cultures she pairs them with.

Obviously I don't blame the translators for not knowing this, they had to make translation decisions before the entire manga was complete, and most likely they were doing work for hire, with no idea what Dungeon Meshi was about.

They had no way of knowing Dungeon Meshi wasn't a video game fantasy comic, and were just trying to rush through their work as fast as possible in order to get paid, and move onto their next project.

Once it became apparent that Dungeon Meshi was High Fantasy and not a world that functions like a video game, they'd already used the word mana, so there was no going back.

In an ideal world, if the translators had known the type of story Dungeon Meshi would become from the beginning, if they really wanted a single word to translate "magical energy" into, they could have picked a word that belongs to one of the language families I mentioned before, rather than using mana just because "everybody uses mana, so readers will know what it means."

What should I call magic power then?

If reading all of this has made you want to stop calling it mana, hooray! Thanks for listening to me rant. You could just call it magical power, if you wanted. Nothing wrong with that!

But if you want something a little less clunky, here's an incomplete list of possibilities in some of the languages most commonly referenced in Dungeon Meshi. Please note I have not done due diligence on every one of these, I believe none of them are exclusively religious terms still in use, but just words that could mean magic (both fictional and real) in various languages. If I'm wrong about any of them, let me know.

INDIAN: Maya, prana. MIDDLE EASTERN: Sihr, kiisum/kesem. GRECO-ROMAN: Ergon (as a euphemism), goteia, physis, numen/numina, mageia. GERMANIC: Seidr, galdr.

(This post is an excerpt from my Dungeon Meshi essay with additional elaborations.)

[wordsmithic]

How an ancient Greek story became the Islamic World's favourite romance

Metiochus and Parthenope (Greek: Μητίοχος καὶ Παρθενόπη, Mētiokhos kai Parthenopē) is an ancient Greek romance novel. In a translation by the eleventh-century poet ‘Unṣurī, it became the Persian romance epic Vāmiq u ‘Adhrā, and the basis for a wide range of stories about the 'Lover and the Virgin' in western medieval and Islamicate cultures.

Metiochus and Parthenope in a mosaic found in Zeugma

The Arabic Script

Vāmiq means 'the lover' and ‘Adhrā means 'virgin' in Arabic, corresponding to the connotations of virginity in the name Parthenope, from Greek parthenos 'young girl, virgin'. Other names in ‘Unṣurī's text are transposed from the Greek, demonstrating derivation from Metiochus and Parthenope, probably via an Arabic translation.

In the 10th century, Ibn al-Nadīm records that Sahl b. Hārūn (d. 830 AD), secretary to Caliph al-Ma'mūn in Baghdad, composed a work of the same title. This must derive from the Greek text, whether by direct translation or through an intermediary — conceivably even an earlier Persian translation. Meanwhile al-Bīrūnī (d. c. 1051) claimed to have translated an Arabic work of this name into New Persian. Al-Bīrūnī's text might, then, have been the source for ‘Unṣurī's poem.

The Greek Story

Metiochus is the eldest son of Miltiades. However, his stepmother Hegesipyle plots against him in favour of her own children. So, along with his friend Theophanes, he flees his home (on the Thracian Chersonese), seeking the court of his distant relative Polycrates on Samos. There he meets Polycrates's daughter Parthenope at the temple of Hera. They fall instantly in love. Polycrates invites Metiochus to a symposium, and the discussions on love at this event are the main surviving part of the Greek text.

The Layla and Majnun motif

Layla and Majnun (Arabic: مجنون ليلى majnūn laylā "Layla's Mad Lover"; Persian: لیلی و مجنون, romanized: laylâ-o-majnun) is an old story of Arab origin, about the 7th-century Arabic poet Qays ibn al-Mulawwah and his lover Layla bint Mahdi (or as Layla al-Aamiriya). The Layla-Majnun theme passed from Arabic to Persian, Turkish, and Indian languages. It is a popular poem praising their love story.

Further reading:

Cf. Thomas Hägg, 'The Oriental Reception of Greek Novels: A Survey with Some Preliminary Considerations', Symbolae Osloenses, 61 (1986), 99–131 (p. 106)

T. Hägg, B. Utas (2003). The Virgin and Her Lover: Fragments of an Ancient Greek Novel and a Persian Epic Poem. BRILL. ISBN 9789004132603.

Divider's source

[invenusworld]

The following is an excerpt from "The Nakshatras of Vedic Astrology: Ancient & Contemporary Usage" by vedic astrologers Dennis M. Harness and Marie M. Masco — here's a link to the full text

⠄･ ⋆ ･ ⠄⠂⋆ ･ ⠄⠂⋆ ･ ⠄

“In these twenty-eight mansions do lye hid many secrets of the wisdom of the ancients by which they wrought wonders on all things which are under the circle of the Moon”. Cornelius Agrippa- Alchemist/Magician (1500 CE)”

Historical Origins of the Lunar Mansions

Before the ecliptic was divided into the twelve zodiac signs, the ancient Indian astronomers recognized 27 divisions called nakshatras. The primary usage of the nakshatras is a fundamental difference between Western and Vedic astrology. One must deeply encounter and explore the nakshatras to appreciate the diversity and richness of Vedic astrology.

The Moon takes about 27.3 days to complete its sojourn around the ecliptic. The nakshatras represent the average daily movement of the Moon against the fixed stars. Each daily segment is identified by a small constellation or a single star. Originally the length of each nakshatra varied, but by the time the Surya Siddhanta was written (c. 500 CE), a classical astronomy text, the segments were fixed to a length of 13 degrees 20 minutes of arc.

The Sanskrit term nakshatra translates as “that which does not decay” (na – not and kshatra – destructible). Naksh can also indicate approaching, to worship, to guard or protect. Tra is a suffix implying a tool or instrument. Thus, the nakshatras are themselves a means of worship.

⠄･ ⋆ ･ ⠄⠂⋆ ･ ⠄⠂⋆ ･ ⠄

The Rig Veda is a compilation of hymns to the gods and the first known composition in an Indo-European language. Historians agree that the Rig Veda was originally transmitted through an oral tradition, and that it was written down, or codified, no later than 1500 BCE. Several nakshatras are mentioned by name in the Rig Veda. New academic research by Dr. David Frawley and B.N. Narahari Acher suggests that all of the nakshatras are to be found in the Rig Veda, where they are referenced by their associated deity.

The earliest reference to the complete solar zodiac based on 12 sign divisions is found in Mesopotamia c. 450 BCE, 4 yet the Indian astrologers were using the 27 divisions of the nakshatras far earlier. The original lists of the nakshatras always start with Krittika which is associated with the Pleiades. There has been much speculation about why the nakshatra order would start with what we now consider the third in the list. The earliest Indian star calendars were based on the 27 nakshatras, and some scholars believe that the nakshatra system was developed during the time when the vernal equinox occurred in the asterism of the Pleiades. The period when the Pleiades heliacally rose at the vernal equinox was 2720-1760 BCE.

⠄･ ⋆ ･ ⠄⠂⋆ ･ ⠄⠂⋆ ･ ⠄

Vedic Mythology and Spirituality: The mythological and spiritual depth of the nakshatra material and its applications are coming to fruition in the West. Exploring the rich mythology of the nakshatras offers both spiritual and psychological insight. According to the Taittiriya Brahmana 1.5.2, “One who offers worship here reaches the world of heaven beyond. That is the nakshatrahood of the nakshatras”. Thus, the nakshatras create a cosmic bridge between the human mind and the universal mind. They are the lunar mansions of the Vedic gods and goddesses, the celestial palaces of these divine beings. According to Dr. David Frawley, “the ancient Vedic sages looked to the origins of the human soul, the eternal or light part of our nature, in the heavens, among the stars, in the realms of light and eternity ruled by the creator or cosmic lord”. To the ancient seers, the nakshatras and planets in the sky were spiritual forces dispensing divine blessings on humanity. The heavenly lights reward us with the fruits of our karma according to our spiritual efforts made through worship, prayer and meditation.

Personality Analysis: The 27 nakshatras offer a deeper analysis of personality, character and temperament than the twelve zodiac signs. They reflect the most intimate aspects of one’s mental, emotional and spiritual nature. The nakshatras are an important tool for self-discovery.

[batfambrainrotbeloved]

Hey so you know how you made Dick speak sanskrit in your fic? lives in my head rent free.

Why did he not speak romanian. how far back in the historical timeline was his clan(??? idk how to translate the word im thinking of into english but its “ନକ୍ଷ୍ୟତ୍ର”/ “ଗୋତ୍ର”) separated from the rest? How was it not prakrit? Were his parents just trying to reconnect to their roots? Did he learn it from his parents or was it learned while trying to connect with his roots? Does he ever realise that any songs and texts are all religious? Is HE religious with how many words in sanskrit straight up reference god?Does he feel alienated with how his culture is romani but his language is indian? Does he ever realise theres only one village in the world that speaks sanskrit as a native language and its over 13,000 km away? Does it get lonely realising that even damian’s knowledge of languages cant cover it?

Im sorry for ranting but my struggle to reconnect w my culture has me projecting HARD 😭

OH BOY- I have been avoiding some asks (because I haven't had the mental strength to give each the time and love response they deserves I swear im getting to yall) But THIS one was just far too good to pass (and im bored as hell in class)

I would say I do dive a little more into my headcanon culture stuff involving Dick and even Damien in Mama Bird (which again I REALLY NEED TO UPDATE)

BUT Let the rambling begin <33

Why does he speak Sanskrit in the fic vs any other language? Simply it was the closest language I could trace similar roots to Romani ancestery too that was easily acsessible dictionary/translator that I could use in my writings.

Canonically he probably WOULD speak a dilect of Romani or Prakrit etc, but in my desperate trying to look into the language and culture half of the resources I came upon were incredibly racist even for someone who had no idea about the culture before then.

How far back in the historical timeline was his clan??? (Clan/Tribe/Family are good english translation's) Im not familiar enough with Romanian clans to assign a specific one (Though from my understanding of research, The Grayson family would be desenced from Romani people lineages that used to reside in the Indus Valley region- yet another reason for the use of Sanskrit)

Were his parents just trying to reconnect to their roots? Did he learn it from his parents or was it learned while trying to connect with his roots? I havent thought into this TOO much, but i'll say as a headcanon that his family felt a great pride in their culture as some of the lucky few who could maintain their nomadic lifestyle with the circus. His Mother was probably less connected (only knowing from her grandparents sort of thing) and rediscovered her roots after meeting his Father who was VERY in tune with his culture.

And as such tried their best to reclaim those roots and share them with Dick. So yes he learned from his parents- but they were still fully connecting themselves.

Does he ever realise that any songs and texts are all religious? Is HE religious with how many words in sanskrit straight up reference god? This is more projection but as someone who grew up in the bible belt, (Translation- American southern region nicknamed "The bible belt" because of how ingrained the Christian Faith is in both religious practice and general culture) Dick is less belief religious and more culturally religious- he will use religious phrasing, have some habits/beliefs FROM religious background without being fully invested, and even some things he doesn't realize are heavily religious until pointed out.

Aka religious pratices in the way of how your mother would teach you to put knifes in the dishwasher upside down (so they wouldnt be as much of a hazard) but something you do because its how you were told instead of thinking about the WHY as much.

Does he feel alienated with how his culture is romani but his language is indian? Does he ever realise theres only one village in the world that speaks sanskrit as a native language and its over 13,000 km away?

Now this is more complicated, I don't know much about circus life (though I do actually have a friend I can ask so might change this later) But from what I know its a VERY mixed enviornment so Dick was both entrenched in his cultural lifestyle as a nomad with his parents proudly sharing their roots, while also being exposed to dozens of other cultures that were also "his".

Aka- Dick is an amalgamation of culture to the point he both belongs in more ways than most people could ever have, and yet feels completely isolated as a result since no one else understands why he gets upset when people wish him Happy Birthday early, why he always dumps the first steep of tea, why he "pays respects" to his bike and tools, why he sets aside food just to be thrown out, etc etc

Its nice, to be able to connect with people over so much, but at the same time it sucks when his family points out "weird habits" that he hadnt even realized were strange. (Thankfully after a few long talks, people stopped commenting on Dicks habits, anyone who does faces the wrath of the Batclan and just about every Hero from Metropolis to the edge of the Milky way)

Does it get lonely realising that even damian’s knowledge of languages cant cover it?

Actually Batfam DOES know some Sanskrit just by exposure of living with Dick. The one who knows the most is probably Alfred since he was the one dealing with the rambunctious kid who would get frustrated with instructions he didnt understand (and that frustration only getting worse for English being like 5th or so language)

None of them are anywhere near fluent though, but I like to think Dick has a pen pal/friends he practices with. Also because he's terrified of losing his proficency and in turn, losing another part of his culture his parents tried so hard to give to him.

And No need to apologize! Like I said, im an outsider looking in from a very different culture but I loved reading (what little good sources I could find) about this topic. Of course if you have any insights/comments/crituqes I would love to hear about them and thank you for the ask!!

[accessibleaesthetics]

Happy Native American History Month!

There are several Native American sign languages, but Plains Indian Sign Language (PISL), also known as Hand Talk, is the most well-documented. This is the sign language of tribes in the plains region of the United States – Crow, Cheyenne, Flathead, Rocky Boy, etc.

PISL is interesting because, while it certainly helps D/deaf members of the tribes, it was historically used by hearing members for everything from communicating when spoken language wasn't an option (e.g., hunting, talking at a distance) to communicating when two people did not share a spoken language.

PISL is also interesting because, unlike many other sign languages I've encountered, facial expressions do not appear to be very important to the language's syntax. You can see an example of this in these two videos:

American Sign Language & Plains Indian Sign Language (PISL)

Comparing American Sign Language & Crow Sign Language (PISL)

If you would prefer a video with English audio translating the PISL, check out the Plains Indian Sign Language: Storytelling with Lanny Real Bird and Harry Sitting Bear video. Don't worry if you can't read the text on-screen for the first six seconds, that's just the video title.

[awoooooooooooyoung]

When a new Ateez song drops, for the portions that are not in English, do you wait for translations to come out? Is there an official source or do you rely on other fans or AI to generate the translation for you? How can you know if the translation is accurate?

Personal note - I really got into Bollywood because I had an Indian roommate in school, and I just listen to the soundtracks with no clue wtf the words are or what they were saying beyond the fact that they are love songs (given what the musical sequence in the movie showed me), just because I love the songs (the combination of the sounds of Hindi and the notes was so lovely), so I've totally liked songs I never understood or learned the language for, but I think international kpop fans actually sing along even to the Korean portions so I'm very curious about how you guys do this.

I go about it more in the way that you listen to Bollywood. For most of the songs idk what they are about. If a song really grabs me because of the Vibe, or because of the music video, I'll look up a translation. I'm usually a bit behind the times so by that time there's usually a good translation online. I have to admit that I usually just trust that e.g. the Genius translation is close enough 😬 Although as I slowly grow my Korean vocabulary there have been times where I've been like.... Is that what that means? But thus far it has always turned out to be something I didn't know yet rather than a mistranslation, as far as I can tell.

To be honest I have NO idea how people sing along when they don't understand the words! I have tried for some of the ATEEZ songs I really like because I want to be able to sing along when they come on shuffle, but if I don't know what the words mean or how they are written I have a really hard time remembering them. I'm thinking either people speak or learn enough Korean or they are really really dedicated in learning the text phonetically?

Learning 한글 helped a lot. Since it's an alphabet (instead of characters) I didn't find it too hard to do, and knowing which sounds correspond to which syllables helps so so so much. Now if I want to know the lyrics I can at least read along and it gives another "hook" for recall if that makes sense.

[hellofeternity]

ORV transcends language | how ORV is kind to readers (1.1k words)

the difficulties in analyzing text are already numerous without a language barrier, the way one word can mean 5 things and when you put it in a sentence suddenly it can mean 50 things and put that sentence in a paragraph? go further and put that paragraph in a page? construct a whole world around it, weave it into the fabric, and suddenly you are painting with words.

ORV is a daunting text, it calls and references so many mythos world wide, greek, roman, indian, chinese, japanese, it plays with meaning and intent and uses gaps in our knowledge like weapons, making us extrapolate our own meaning between the sentences, it is a tome of knowledge when it comes to histories and philosophies it feels at times like I will never understand all these things inside it.

One of the difficulties of reading a translated text is that when we analyze a text the authorial intent weighs very heavily in our minds, sure we can immerse ourselves in the world but once we start picking apart at the threads we hit a wall pretty soon when we start asking ourselves "what did the author mean by this?" however in a translated text there is an obvious gap, a game of telephone, did the translator actually capture the authors intent? or are we just reading the translators perception? sadly I don't know korean, and I cant say I have the drive to learn it, as such I know there will forever be a side of ORV that I will never be privy to - however I am bilingual and had the pleasure of reading two translated versions of ORV, an English translation and an Arabic translation, I didn't finish reading the said Arabic translation but a couple things stood out to me when I briefly did ORV is very kind to readers, following along in other stories can seem confusing at times, the pacing might be too fast and you might miss some details in a characters actions, the wording might be too vague and ah damn 20 pages later you realize you don't actually know why the characters are doing what they are doing. A big writing adage that you will see a lot is "show dont tell" and it holds merit, but ORV doesn't subscribe to it, because ORV shows AND tells. ORV built a world around readers and reading, and it makes sure that there is clarity every step of the way on what is happening, first by starting out as a homage to the isekai genre, and not deviating too much at the start, making the readers feel at home in a worldview they are familiar with, systems, leveling, videos games etc, and when it starts deviating it explains things with clarity that no matter how bad the translation is you understand the general intent, and secondly by being VERY blatant about the names of things and having a built in "story" system that is built on common story tropes and names the themes for you! take for example "unbroken faith" and "Blade of faith" both of these are two translated versions of dokja's sword. I will never know which one is closer to the original authorial intent, but I can tell you something, dokja's sword is symbolism to the faith he is wielding. (CH386 vague spoilers) or the entirety of "the great war of saints and demons" being about the concept of good and evil fighting and how kimcom aren't just above being good and evil, they are both. By using story tropes that we are familiar with to explain the complexity of situations in a simple forms you no longer have to worry about losing you readers understandings through language barriers. Every story in the world in every language knows what good vs evil is, every language has the words to explain them. and therein lies the beauty of ORV. But of course this isn't to say translations don't matter, it does speak to the strength of an original texts clarity when it accounts for the big things by making them simplified, but when we get down to the nitty gritty it starts to lose form take for example

"Tell me, you fool. If I continue to regress, will I ever get to meet you again?"

this person here has a great write up explaining the translators thoughts behind this specific line

but it has spawned a lot of debate in the English speaking fandom, as to the strength of its translation, I remember when I first saw someone claiming that its a mistranslation and "you fool" isn't part of the original, my first thought was "and so?" I do not mean to be dismissive to the original text, but I do not exist in a space where I can appreciate it in the original korean, I do not exist in a worldview where I can understand the historical implications of a lot of the characters, and even when I try to research it in English sadly the resources do not exist yet and its even more laughable to think of finding these things in Arabic. (Goryeos first sword doesn't have an English wikipedia page as a clear example) a lot of people have issues with the most popular English fantranslation of ORV - and I can understand why, being bilingual I have a lot of opinions on how a lot of things SHOULD be translated most of the time, and have done my own translation work but as I sit and think about this popular translation I cant help but just feel love for it, it might be lacking to some, it might be inaccurate at times to others, but its just enough for me to paint the gaps in the text with my perceptions, the words used are tied to my affections the Arabic translation of ORV is clunky, it is messy, it doesn't have as much grace as the English translation of ORV does, the words barely string together cohesively, but it has enough clarity, enough intent, and enough love for its readers, to catch their hearts, their attention and their energy

and so I want this to be the first post on this blog because, the author is dead here, not because I buried them, but because the tower of babel fell down a long time ago, and all we have is rubble and each other. a lot of the analysis on this blog will try to be respectful to the korean original wherever it can, however my words will be coming from an anglosphere perspective, and build on other English reader's perceptions of a text translation that a decent amount of people don't think is adequate, but just like ORV is kind to us, we can be kind back, I will quote the most popular version because its what connects us together, and while the authors intent might be lost, we can share our own meanings with each other, and build our own intent from the rubble.

[evelyncurtis]

The Beauty of The Numu Language -- The Fight for Revitalization

"Eagle in Flight" By Ben Aleck of the Pyramid Lake Paiute Tribe

During the last week of senior year, one of my best friends, Sophi McCann had declared herself bound for Fort Lewis College in Colorado, eager to study Native American literature and culture.

The key word there is Colorado, about a 10+ hour drive between the both of us, after growing up in a small school for the last four years.

I remember feeling anxious, wondering how the friends who I had grown closest to would turn into the typical "we'll call all the time" "I'll text you whenever I'm free," cycle of distance. Sophi was a constant in my life and I didn't want that to happen with her.

Sophi is a Northern Paiute Native American, otherwise known as Numu, who always found beauty in her roots. I remember her always talking about the pow-wows she would attend, mainly the music and the drums.

While talking about the Paiute culture, I remember her teaching me how to say goodbye in her language, a word I thought was much prettier than the English alternative. Pinetawas. (pronounced Pin-ee-tuh-wuhs)

Many people where I grew up, in the Sierra Nevadas, were of Northern Paiute origin. My hometown, Bridgeport CA, is close to my heart, and many people I grew up with were a part of the Bridgeport Indian Colony. (formerly known as the Bridgeport Paiute Indian Colony of California, or A'waggu Dükadü.)

Thus, I found myself interested in learning more about the language that I was introduced to by my friend, where she then introduced me to the Northern Paiute Language Project.

Statue of Thocmetony, (otherwise known as Sarah Winnemucca) a powerhouse Northern Paiute writer, interpreter, and negotiator between her people and the US Government.

Starting in 2005 as a class in the University of Berkeley, it is now hosted by University of Santa Cruz. The project stands to keep the Numu language alive, as it is classified as a "critically endangered," tongue.

According to Jeremy Miller from High Country News, "Today, there are no more than five surviving native speakers of a critically endangered dialect of Paviotso, all of whom live in Bridgeport, California."

Sophi's great aunt is one of these speakers!

Her name is Edith McCann, a Paiute elder who works to help keep her mother language alive, recording audio of different phrases and words in the Paiute dictionary on the website to ensure correct pronunciation.

Although from a first glance, the dictionary is still a work in progress, and does not have every word to directly translate from English, it still has thousands of words within it!

For the sake of curiosity, I toyed with the dictionary a bit, typing in various English words such as "Run" "Prison" and "Sunflower" (don't pay mind to the random variety)

The translations to these words were "tonoha" "nagwutuma nobe" and "aku"

Although I cannot copy the direct recording due to the wishes of the project, I CAN link the pronunciation, which are within the translated words above.

Another thing I found particularly interesting is when referring to different dialects of Numu, they are derived from the food the area is known to have eaten! A'waggu Dükadü, The Bridgeport Indian Colony, directly translates to "Sucker Fish Eaters." This is referring to the Tahoe Sucker fish found in the area.

Picture of the members of the Northern Paiute Language Project

While getting to work on the project, Maziar Toosarvandani, a professor at the Department of Linguistics in the University of Santa Cruz, sat with two students and two 90 y/o Paiute elders, Edith McCann and Madeline Stevens, to learn the Numu language from the source and record hundreds upon thousands of audio recordings! These women are incredible!

The work that this project does is important because the passing down of culture is important. What is also important is recognizing why projects like this must exist.

I am, of course, talking about cultural genocide, and the fear rooted in ignorance by the white, Christian settlers who built boarding mission schools for Indigenous people, erasing their culture and replacing it with one that they deemed "normal" and superior.

According to the Carlisle Indian School Digital Resource Center, a famous speech was given by Captain Richard Henry Pratt--who was a US Army officer who was one of those responsible for the boarding schools--explaining his philosophy on western assimilation. A particular chilling quote from the speech within the document states, "Kill the Indian in him, and save the man."

(pow wow Paiute dancers at the downtown Summerlin Festival of Arts)

Because of Native American youth being forcibly raised around white culture, this slowly erases the traditions that were meant to be passed down to them. The youth won't learn the language, won't hear the stories, and will feel like an outsider no matter where they end up.

Without posterity, memory dies.

After researching this project, I am humbly reminded of Zitkala-Ša's writings, and her solution for Indigenous youth, struggling with the importance of their roots and ties to their ancestors whilst living in an assimilated, white society.

Particularly,  “A Dream of Her Grandfather,” where the narrator struggles with keeping her roots close to heart while becoming a part of the US Government.

It is hinted that Zitkala-Ša proposes a bi-cultural life within this story, and I truly think that the language revitalization project, in a culture that mainly passes tradition down orally is a great solution for Paiute youth who wish to become closer to their ancestors and roots.

That is the goal of this project, to save a critically endangered dialect that is sacred and beloved. And that, in and of itself, is a rebellion to the horrible people who caused this divide in the first place.

According to an article from nativehope.org, "It is crucial to understand that all of life of Native American tribes—celebrations, rituals, hunting, farming, storytelling—took place within a distinct place or region of land and was shaped by the land. Tribes were intimately tied to the land they inhabited and treated Mother Earth with reverence and gratitude. ... For Native American tribes, land is identity."

(basket woven by Lucy Telles, a Northern Paiute basket maker. It is housed at the Smithsonian.)

Overall, as a white woman, I recognize I will never truly grasp the struggles and consequences that cultural genocide had on indigenous culture. However, the effort that the Northern Paiute Language Project is clear, and I am grateful for Sophi for introducing me to a beautiful language and project.

I encourage you to look into the project, and share it.

My favorite word I've learned is tuggwunudu, which translates to rainbow in English. Edith speaks it so beautifully in the recording. I can't get over it.

Works Cited

Carlisle Indian School Digital Resource Center. “Kill the Indian in Him, and Save the Man”: R. H. Pratt on the Education of Native Americans.” Carlisleindian.dickinson.edu, carlisleindian.dickinson.edu/teach/kill-indian-him-and-save-man-r-h-pratt-education-native-americans

Miller, Jeremy. “Most Native Tongues of the West Are All but Lost.” High Country News, 2 Mar. 2015, www.hcn.org/issues/47-4/most-native-tongues-of-the-west-are-all-but-lost/.

“Native American History - Native Hope.” Native Hope, 26 Dec. 2024, www.nativehope.org/native-american-history/#chp4.

The Northern Paiute Language Project Credit “Northern Paiute Language Project.” Paiute.ucsc.edu, paiute.ucsc.edu/.

[kiragecko]

Studying Indian Historical Linguistics, as an English-speaking Canadian:

Open up a poorly mimeographed book written anywhere from 70 to 150 years ago. The writing is blurry, with gaps. (And yes, if you know me, this DOES mean that my brain interprets everything as pictures instead of words!) Diacritics were written on afterwards, and some are missing.

Writing style is:

old fashioned, because it was written a while ago

quite formal, because Indian English has different standards of formality than mine

stilted, because the authour is translating all their info from a bunch of 1000-6000 year old Sanskrit manuscripts

esoteric, because Indian linguistics has a 6000 year history and they see no reason to switch to western terminology (they are Correct)

Charts exist, but are used noticeably differently. :(

Instead of the phonology being described straightforwardly, it's all brought in as changes to the original Sanskrit (or Old Indo-Aryan). You better have a good understanding of the minutiae of Sanskrit phonology, even if it's 3000 years before your period!

After reading the very short phonology description, you read the next 30 pages of descriptions of individual period words compared to Sanskrit. It's important to write a cheat sheet of all the acronyms, because this book is about all the dialects used across all of India over a 1000 year period, and the only indication of if THIS particular page is useful to you is brief reference to 'WAp.' half way through. Some of the phonology section's statements are contradicted by the examples. The authour agrees with you that this is annoying, but its what the grammarian in 600AD said, so the authour has faithfully included it.

Note that most of these words are actually from stereotyped accents recorded in plays of the period. (Or from Jain texts. Jainism is the BEST religion, because they wrote in the same dialect they spoke in, rather than in Sanskrit! I love the Jains.) So we don't know how accurate the dialects that are recorded actually were. It's like basing studies of African-American English on minstrel shows and Uncle Tom stories. They provide VERY valuable data about the period, but they ... need to be interpreted carefully.

-

There is so much information! It is beautifully thorough! But its all framed in ways that aren't used outside of Indian linguistics, the terminology is really different, and the reproductions are hard to read.

(I just finished a section where it took an entire paragraph to figure out if they were writing 'ñ', 'ś', or 'ṽ'! It was 'ṽ'.)

If this was my main field, I think I'd be fine. But I'm trying compare languages, here. I forget things while I go off and study other languages that use different conventions! Reminding myself what 'cerebral' means (it means 'retroflex'), while trying to figure out if that corner of a letter is an 'n' or an 'i', while ALSO trying to figure out what a 'closed a' (saṃvṛta) is, because that's a Sanskrit thing so they don't need to explain it ... (while also trying to convince my disabled brain that the things on the page ARE words, really, even though they're slightly blurry) ... it's exhausting.

(Still, it is SO NICE to have actual period information! I'm being SPOILED!)

-

(Anyone know what the "two types of 'a' are"? Looking up 'vṛta' and 'saṃvṛta' has been less helpful than hoped, and none of my Sanskrit grammars want to explain. It's not the difference in quality between Sanskrit long and short 'a's. But I don't know what it IS!)

[whencyclopedia]

Eastman's Biography of Red Cloud

Eastman's biography of Red Cloud (l. 1822-1909) is the first narrative of his Indian Heroes and Great Chieftains (1916), and it sets the tone for those that follow, including the pieces on Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, in explaining the motivation of the Plains Indians in their response to the US government's genocidal policies of expansion.

The piece is of particular interest historically because the Sioux physician and author, Charles A. Eastman (also known as Ohiyesa, l. 1858-1939), was able to interview the warrior and statesman Red Cloud in person, as he was unable to do with many others, such as Crazy Horse, and was also able to receive the story in Red Cloud's native language, unlike the narrative Black Elk Speaks (1932), which was given by the Lakota Sioux medicine man Black Elk (l. 1863-1950) to the American poet and writer John G. Neihardt (l. 1881-1973) through an interpreter. Eastman then translated Red Cloud's account into English for his book. The result is a firsthand account of the life of one of the greatest Sioux chiefs of the 19th century.

Text

The following text has been abridged for space considerations, but the online version of Eastman's book will be found below in the External Links section. The version presented here is taken from Indian Heroes and Great Chieftains, 1939 edition, republished in 2016:

…Red Cloud was born about 1820 near the forks of the Platte River. He was one of a family of nine children whose father, an able and respected warrior, reared his son under the old Spartan regime. The young Red Cloud is said to have been a fine horseman, able to swim across the Missouri and Yellowstone rivers, of high bearing and unquestionable courage, yet invariably gentle and courteous in everyday life. This last trait, together with a singularly musical and agreeable voice, has always been characteristic of the man…

…The future leader was still a very young man when he joined a war party against the Utes. Having pushed eagerly forward on the trail, he found himself far in advance of his companions as night came on, and at the same time rain began to fall heavily. Among the scattered scrub pines, the lone warrior found a natural cave, and after a hasty examination, he decided to shelter there for the night.

Scarcely had he rolled himself in his blanket when he heard a slight rustling at the entrance, as if some creature were preparing to share his retreat. It was pitch dark. He could see nothing, but judged that it must be either a man or a grizzly. There was not room to draw a bow. It must be between knife and knife, or between knife and claws, he said to himself.

The intruder made no search but quietly lay down in the opposite corner of the cave. Red Cloud remained perfectly still, scarcely breathing, his hand upon his knife. Hour after hour he lay broad awake, while many thoughts passed through his brain. Suddenly, without warning, he sneezed, and instantly a strong man sprang to a sitting posture opposite. The first gray of morning was creeping into their rocky den and – behold! – a Ute hunter sat before him.

Desperate as the situation appeared, it was not without a grim humor. Neither could afford to take his eyes from the other's; the tension was great, till at last a smile wavered over the expressionless face of the Ute. Red Cloud answered the smile, and in that instant a treaty of peace was born between them.

"Put your knife in its sheath. I shall do so also, and we will smoke together," signed Red Cloud. The other assented gladly, and they ratified thus the truce which assured to each a safe return to his friends. Having finished their smoke, they shook hands and separated. Neither had given the other any information. Red Cloud returned to his party and told his story, adding that he had divulged nothing and had nothing to report. Some were inclined to censure him for not fighting, but he was sustained by a majority of the warriors, who commended his self-restraint. In a day or two they discovered the main camp of the enemy and fought a remarkable battle, in which Red Cloud especially distinguished himself

The Sioux were now entering upon the most stormy period of their history. The old things were fast giving place to new. The young men, for the first time engaging in serious and destructive warfare with the neighboring tribes, armed with the deadly weapons furnished by the white man, began to realize that they must soon enter upon a desperate struggle for their ancestral hunting grounds. The old men had been innocently cultivating the friendship of the stranger, saying among themselves, "Surely there is land enough for all!"

Red Cloud was a modest and little-known man of about twenty-eight years, when General Harney called all the western bands of Sioux together at Fort Laramie, Wyoming, for the purpose of securing an agreement and right of way through their territory. The Ogallala held aloof from this proposal, but Bear Bull, an Ogallala chief, after having been plied with whisky, undertook to dictate submission to the rest of the clan. Enraged by failure, he fired upon a group of his own tribesmen, and Red Cloud's father and brother fell dead. According to Indian custom, it fell to him to avenge the deed. Calmly, without uttering a word, he faced old Bear Bull and his son, who attempted to defend his father, and shot them both. He did what he believed to be his duty, and the whole band sustained him. Indeed, the tragedy gave the young man at once a certain standing, as one who not only defended his people against enemies from without, but against injustice and aggression within the tribe. From this time on he was a recognized leader.

Man-Afraid-of-His-Horses, then head chief of the Ogallala, took council with Red Cloud in all important matters, and the young warrior rapidly advanced in authority and influence. In 1854, when he was barely thirty-five years old, the various bands were again encamped near Fort Laramie. A Mormon emigrant train, moving westward, left a footsore cow behind, and the young men killed her for food. The next day, to their astonishment, an officer with thirty men appeared at the Indian camp and demanded of old Conquering Bear that they be given up. The chief in vain protested that it was all a mistake and offered to make reparation. It would seem that either the officer was under the influence of liquor, or else had a mind to bully the Indians, for he would accept neither explanation nor payment, but demanded point-blank that the young men who had killed the cow be delivered up to summary punishment. The old chief refused to be intimidated and was shot dead on the spot. Not one soldier ever reached the gate of Fort Laramie! Here Red Cloud led the young Ogallala, and so intense was the feeling that they even killed the half-breed interpreter.

Curiously enough, there was no attempt at retaliation on the part of the army, and no serious break until 1860, when the Sioux were involved in troubles with the Cheyennes and Arapahoe. In 1862, a grave outbreak was precipitated by the eastern Sioux in Minnesota under Little Crow, in which the western bands took no part. Yet this event ushered in a new period for their race. The surveyors of the Union Pacific were laying out the proposed road through the heart of the southern buffalo country, the rendezvous of Ogallala, Brule, Arapahoe, Comanche, and Pawnee, who followed the buffalo as a means of livelihood. To be sure, most of these tribes were at war with one another, yet during the summer months they met often to proclaim a truce and hold joint councils and festivities, which were now largely turned into discussions of the common enemy. It became evident, however, that some of the smaller and weaker tribes were inclined to welcome the new order of things, recognizing that it was the policy of the government to put an end to tribal warfare.

Red Cloud's position was uncompromisingly against submission. He made some noted speeches in this line, one of which was repeated to me by an old man who had heard and remembered it with the remarkable verbal memory of an Indian.

"Friends," said Red Cloud, "it has been our misfortune to welcome the white man. We have been deceived. He brought with him some shining things that pleased our eyes; he brought weapons more effective than our own: above all, he brought the spirit water that makes one forget for a time old age, weakness, and sorrow. But I wish to say to you that if you would possess these things for yourselves, you must begin anew and put away the wisdom of your fathers. You must lay up food, and forget the hungry. When your house is built, your storeroom filled, then look around for a neighbor whom you can take at a disadvantage and seize all that he has! Give away only what you do not want; or rather, do not part with any of your possessions unless in exchange for another's.

"My countrymen, shall the glittering trinkets of this rich man, his deceitful drink that overcomes the mind, shall these things tempt us to give up our homes, our hunting grounds, and the honorable teaching of our old men? Shall we permit ourselves to be driven to and fro—to be herded like the cattle of the white man?"

His next speech that has been remembered was made in 1866, just before the attack on Fort Phil Kearny. The tension of feeling against the invaders had now reached its height. There was no dissenting voice in the council upon the Powder River when it was decided to oppose to the uttermost the evident purpose of the government. Red Cloud was not altogether ignorant of the numerical strength and the resourcefulness of the white man, but he was determined to face any odds rather than submit.

"Hear ye, Dakotas!" he exclaimed. "When the Great Father at Washington sent us his chief soldier to ask for a path through our hunting grounds, a way for his iron road to the mountains and the western sea, we were told that they wished merely to pass through our country, not to tarry among us, but to seek for gold in the far west. Our old chiefs thought to show their friendship and good will, when they allowed this dangerous snake in our midst. They promised to protect the wayfarers.

"Yet before the ashes of the council fire are cold, the Great Father is building his forts among us. You have heard the sound of the white soldier's ax upon the Little Piney. His presence here is an insult and a threat. It is an insult to the spirits of our ancestors. Are we then to give up their sacred graves to be plowed for corn? Dakotas, I am for war!"

In less than a week after this speech, the Sioux advanced upon Fort Phil Kearny, the new sentinel that had just taken her place upon the farthest frontier, guarding the Oregon Trail. Every detail of the attack had been planned with care, though not without heated discussion, and nearly every well-known Sioux chief had agreed in striking the blow. The brilliant young war leader, Crazy Horse, was appointed to lead the charge. His lieutenants were Sword, Hump, and Dull Knife, with Little Chief of the Cheyennes, while the older men acted as councilors. Their success was instantaneous. In less than half an hour, they had cut down nearly a hundred men under Captain Fetterman, whom they drew out of the fort by a ruse and then annihilated.

Instead of sending troops to punish, the government sent a commission to treat with the Sioux. The result was the famous treaty of 1868, which Red Cloud was the last to sign, having refused to do so until all of the forts within their territory should be vacated. All of his demands were acceded to, the new road abandoned, the garrisons withdrawn, and in the new treaty it was distinctly stated that the Black Hills and the Big Horn were Indian country, set apart for their perpetual occupancy, and that no white man should enter that region without the consent of the Sioux.

Scarcely was this treaty signed, however, when gold was discovered in the Black Hills, and the popular cry was: "Remove the Indians!" This was easier said than done. That very territory had just been solemnly guaranteed to them forever: yet how stem the irresistible rush for gold? The government, at first, entered some small protest, just enough to "save its face" as the saying is; but there was no serious attempt to prevent the wholesale violation of the treaty. It was this state of affairs that led to the last great speech made by Red Cloud, at a gathering upon the Little Rosebud River. It is brief, and touches upon the hopelessness of their future as a race. He seems at about this time to have reached the conclusion that resistance could not last much longer; in fact, the greater part of the Sioux nation was already under government control.

"We are told," said he, "that Spotted Tail has consented to be the Beggars' Chief. Those Indians who go over to the white man can be nothing but beggars, for he respects only riches, and how can an Indian be a rich man? He cannot without ceasing to be an Indian. As for me, I have listened patiently to the promises of the Great Father, but his memory is short. I am now done with him. This is all I have to say."

The wilder bands separated soon after this council, to follow the drift of the buffalo, some in the vicinity of the Black Hills and others in the Big Horn region. Small war parties came down from time to time upon stray travelers, who received no mercy at their hands, or made dashes upon neighboring forts. Red Cloud claimed the right to guard and hold by force, if need be, all this territory which had been conceded to his people by the treaty of 1868. The land became a very nest of outlawry. Aside from organized parties of prospectors, there were bands of white horse thieves and desperadoes who took advantage of the situation to plunder immigrants and Indians alike.

An attempt was made by means of military camps to establish control and force all the Indians upon reservations, and another commission was sent to negotiate their removal to Indian Territory, but met with an absolute refusal. After much guerrilla warfare, an important military campaign against the Sioux was set on foot in 1876, ending in Custer's signal defeat upon the Little Big Horn.

In this notable battle, Red Cloud did not participate in person, nor in the earlier one with Crook upon the Little Rosebud, but he had a son in both fights. He was now a councilor rather than a warrior, but his young men were constantly in the field, while Spotted Tail had definitely surrendered and was in close touch with representatives of the government.

But the inevitable end was near. One morning in the fall of 1876 Red Cloud was surrounded by United States troops under the command of Colonel McKenzie, who disarmed his people and brought them into Fort Robinson, Nebraska. Thence they were removed to the Pine Ridge agency, where he lived for more than thirty years as a "reservation Indian." In order to humiliate him further, government authorities proclaimed the more tractable Spotted Tail head chief of the Sioux. Of course, Red Cloud's own people never recognized any other chief.

In 1880 he appealed to Professor Marsh, of Yale, head of a scientific expedition to the Bad Lands, charging certain frauds at the agency and apparently proving his case; at any rate the matter was considered worthy of official investigation. In 1890-1891, during the "Ghost Dance craze" and the difficulties that followed, he was suspected of collusion with the hostiles, but he did not join them openly, and nothing could be proved against him. He was already an old man and became almost entirely blind before his death in 1909 in his ninetieth year.

His private life was exemplary. He was faithful to one wife all his days and was a devoted father to his children. He was ambitious for his only son, known as Jack Red Cloud, and much desired him to be a great warrior. He started him on the warpath at the age of fifteen, not then realizing that the days of Indian warfare were well-nigh at an end.

Among latter-day chiefs, Red Cloud was notable as a quiet man, simple and direct in speech, courageous in action, an ardent lover of his country, and possessed in a marked degree of the manly qualities characteristic of the American Indian in his best days.

Continue reading...

[cyndaquillt]

please give the rant bestie 🤲

Sorry it took me a while to get to this cause I was turning the rant into a mildly coherent essay. (This is very long, I'm sorry :/)

TL;DR : India is a modern nation state that will face the challenge of falling apart if each indigenous group is indeed given sovereignity over their land, culture, and language so its easier to instead perpetrate the myth of an ethnically united Indian people with common language(s), religion, culture, etc to if the priority is to maintain a united, big country regardless of your political stance.

OK SO!

To preface this discussion, I want to point out that settler colonialism in South Asia predates the global modern perception of colonialism which comes largely from a European colonial lens. The subcontinent itself being a victim of modern European colonialism means a South Asian's default understanding of colonialism through lived experiences comes largely from a situation where we are the victims of colonization, not the perpetrators. This means there are deep rooted nuances and systemic privileges that the average Indian gets, that are easy to miss entirely if one is not actively looking for dogwhistles or watching out for propaganda, especially because the way Indians get introduced to colonialism is through the independence movement where there is a clear foreign entity that hasn't clearly assimilated into South Asian societies and whose parent country still exists. Then things get more complicated when the interplay between conquest and colonization comes in because the timeline of South Asian settler colonialism has heavy overlap with conquests where, for better or worse, stable monarchies were established with kingdoms where rulers that generally assimilated with the populace and were even well received by the people they were ruling over. Also note that I am going to be writing this from an Indian lens. There may be bias when I make general sweeping statements applicable to all of South Asia, because I am Indian and know Indian society best (at least macroscopically).

South Asian settler colonialism goes wayy wayy back, to the establishment of a Brahmanical Aryan society and benefits to being an upper caste Aryans over everyone else is very evident even in Ancient India. Let's take the Arthashastra as an example. In his 1987 translation of Kautilya's Arthashastra, political economist L. N. Rangarajan notes that not only being an Aryan had benefits in a Kautilyan society, but falsely posing as an Aryan to avail those benefits had grave consequences. You can find this translation in its entirety here. In the introductory section titled 'Kautilyan State and Society', the translator compiles points on not only the treatment of Non-Aryans, but details the consequences for interactions between Aryans and Non-aryans and even the difference in treatment each demographic gets. Eg: An Aryan man in a relationship with a Svapaka (dog-breeder, non-aryan) woman was branded and exiled, whereas a Svapaka man in a relationship with an Aryan woman was to be executed. Banished, an aryan man still lives. But if you cross the same line as a non-aryan man, you die.

The translation also has details on how to settle a 'virgin land' in Part IV of the text. While the general advice is to leave native 'jungle tribes' alone, the reason for this isn't granting territorial sovereignty, but to avoid being attacked by them. Granting indigenous groups territorial sovereignty is also bad for monarchic control so instead, non-aryans are given tasks and a place in the society as guards, labourers, slaves, etc (note that Arthashastra is very clear that aryans cannot be enslaved and slave labour must come from outside of Aryan social structure/outside of the Varna system).

The reason I bring up the Arthashastra here is due to a couple reasons. Arthashastra, to my knowledge, is one of the earliest known complete socio-economic treaty, dated either 4th Century BCE or 2nd Century BCE (contingent on if Kautilya is indeed Chanakya). It is exceptionally thorough and while it is uncertain whether what's detailed in the Arthashastra was reality or simply an ideal kingdom according to Kautilya, it does address and often disagrees with its contemporary or preceding socio-economic schools of thoughts, providing a multidimensional and ideologically diverse image of politics of the times, something revisionist history born out of nationalism wants to ignore. The other major reason I chose to bring up Arthashastra here is also to point out the revision of the perception and image of Kautilya to fit post-colonial, nationalist idea of the earliest historical entity to kickstart the subcontinent's unification, as opposed what it actually must have been, which is simply establishing a nation state through tactful conquest and settlement of lands. (Mauryan settler politics is also a separate rant btw, hmu if you want that too but that would be a digression here).

Settler colonialism of people present in the land before Aryan migration into the subcontinent of course, predates Arthashatra and Mauryan rule. But we are going to move forward in time instead and talk a bit about the medieval times. By the time European colonialism reached South Asia, our lands were hosting a myriad of communities, ethnicities, religious beliefs, etc. Foreign perception of 'the land beyond the Indus', the Greek 'India' or the Arabic 'Hind' and its people the uniform 'Hindu' is convenient for a west centric perspective trying to build a colony or a nation state out of South Asia. But the reality was not that homogenous and ethnic divides were rife in the subcontinent. Eg : Shivaji's rivalry against Aurangzeb was not a religious issue, it was born out of the sovereign claim of Marathas and Shivaji over Bijapur (source). While religious divide is most certainly present in the medieval India around the same time (eg: Guru Gobind Singh's establishment of the Khalsa and resistance against Aurangzeb), I believe ethnic divide was equally important.

The reason I bring up the dichotomy of religious and ethnic divides is because I believe division in terms of religion benefitted British control of India a lot more than ethnic division did. To that end, the British fanned the flames of the religious divide to break up ethnic solidarity. A good portion of South Asian kingdom split was by ethnicities (Marathas once again a good example of it). If ethnicities unite, they can come together to claim an independent nation state. But religious unity with multiple ethnicities doesn't work as a good model for a rebellion because ethnic divide is so dominant and not to mention, even a single South Asian religion was never that united to begin with, especially the blanket religion of Hinduism with its caste heirarchy, untouchability, non-aryan tribal politics, etc, etc. A religious divide would aide British control. A united Bengali front could ask back for an independent nation state of Bengal but a divided Bengal based on religion is a good way to cultivate infighting so that we may never unite against the oppressor.

200 years of fanning the religious divide flame required as strong of a uniting front if the British were to be thrown out and the freedom movement, especially the one born out of Gandhian efforts provided just that. Caste, ethnic, and religious unity were always a front for Gandhian politics and they served their purpose well against a common eenemy. But what after the common enemy is gone? Modern South Asian society then ended up with the same old ethnic and religious tensions, though at this point in time, religious divide is far stronger than it has ever been. Though no division of a multireligious ethnicity could be clean, and considering that ethnic unity has been a glue far stronger than religious unity before now, the Indo-Pak partition that broke that glue of ethnic unity and was so bloody that our scars from then bleed to this day.

However, in my experience, the modern Indian who has never seen a time where ethnic unity overpowered religious unity or isn't part of an indigenous community whose land has been taken by the modern nation state, finds religious claim to the land ideologically easier to comprehend than indigenous claim to the land. The Kashmir issue is a great example of this. Azad Kashmir has its own self governing body with its own PM and President, albeit being under the administration of Pakistan. I am not Kashmiri, do not live in Azad Kashmir, and have no direct experience of the Kashmir conflict but from what I know, on paper Azad Kashmir is a sovereign piece of land inhabited by various ethnic groups from Punjab, Jammu, Kashmir valley and the Pothohar plateau. However, as an Indian, this region was introduced to me as Pakistan occupied Kashmir and the map of India I was taught includes this as a 'rightful' part of India. A third option of an independent Kashmir is never introduced to us by formal channels. The only two options we get are either Indian or Pakistani control and if you are Indian, there is a supposed right answer that is very wrong on multiple levels. J&K's handover to India was messy because the land was sold to Gulab Singh by the British when the British had no indigenous claim to the land. Kashmir issue is an issue of indigenous sovereignty spun around as an issue of religious divide. The Kashmir Valley didn't get independence with India because its authority went from European colonizers to a vassal princely state to a newly formed nation state, making the said newly formed nation state of India its new settler colonizer. Just like Tibet did not get independence when Nehru ceded it to China when he had no right to. Kashmir didn't become a part of India like Goa did either, where the Indian army fought a second war of independence against the Portuguese, though it is unclear to me if this was/is a move the native populace was okay with (did we make Goa India's Hawaii? Something I need to read up more on). At the very least, in case of Goa, it seems the colonial rule was overthrown in line with the native Goan Liberation Movement's sentiments (source but it is a govt website), though the Indian army fully intended to annex Goa regardless of local resistance. But the Kashmir Valley was ceded to India by someone who had no right to do so. This would have been wrong regardless of the majority religion in the Kashmir Valley, but because religious extremism and violence did happen in the valley and the post-independence territorial India/Pakistan issue was indeed a religious one, the Kashmir issue is best understood by the average Indian as an issue of religious divide and not an issue of indigenous sovereignty when it very much is so. This also means any nationwide Kashmiri liberation movement does not get any traction and the small pockets it exists in can be relabeled as militancy or terrorism.

Modern nation state of India discredits any indigenous movement by flipping it into an issue of religious divide, when it can. It's even more evident post-2014 when religious polarization has been consistently used as a tool to deflect from various policies and national issues that the government should be held accountable for. Changing Gurgaon to Gurugram along with a wave of name changes like Allahabad -> Prayagraj or Mughalsarai -> Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhyay Nagar as a statement of 'reclamation' and decolonization like Bombay -> Mumbai or Calcutta -> Kolkata were, is an example of this. If we are to even admit that all Islamic rule in South Asia was foreign colonialism and ignore the fact that Pandit Deen Dayal Upadhyay had no claim to the land of Mughalsarai before it was named Mughalsarai, the switch from Gurgaon to Gurugram in 2016 was blatantly discrediting indigenous languages spoken in the region in an attempt to make its Sanskritic and Vedic associations more accessible to those not native to the region.

Adding Sanskrit as the second the state language of Uttarakhand after Hindi in 2010 by its then CM is another such move. Note that this is pre-2014 but the CM of the time who made the addition, Ramesh Pokhriyal, is a member of the BJP. Also note that there are no Sanskrit speakers in the region. Though, Kumaoni and Garhwali, the most spoken regional languages as per the 2011 census are not currently one of the 22 languages recognized in the constitution and there is an ongoing motion for both to be included in the constitution as one of the 38 additional languages. A genuine push to preserve indigeneity of the ethnic groups in Uttarakhand in 2010 shouldn't have been making Sanskrit its official language but for inclusion of Kumaoni and Garhwali in the constitution and giving them the status of official languages of the state that they so rightfully deserve.

Undermining local languages and bestowing superiority to a blanket language isn't a rare tactic when it comes to colonialism of any kind. Both Hindi and Urdu serve this purpose in modern South Asia and Sanskrit serves the same purpose in revisionist history in hopes of peddling the front of a united nation state with credible historicity. The myth of 'we are one people and always have been' is propagated so that it can be used to bind a nation state that was fundamentally never together. While the imposition of language as a way of control is more evident in the South, especially with anti-Hindi sentiments coalescing into full fledged movements, even the idea of 'The Hindi Belt' and a uniform North India are a result of this. The Gangetic plains where the Hindi Belt is supposed to be, isn't linguistically uniform. But barely any language from the region is recognized in the constitution. Take Bihar for instance. A state with some of the most underprivileged population in the country often victim of nationwide elitism and classism, it is very conveniently drafted into the Hindi belt and any recognition of linguistic diversity it gets is derogatory, be it mocking Bihari Hindi or mocking Bhojpuri. However, despite Bihar's national image of a supposedly Bhojpuri speaking state, Bhojpuri isn't one of the languages recognized in the constitution. What's even more interesting is that the Bhojpur region is split between Bihar and UP and is by no means the only language native to the state. There are multiple linguistic spheres in the state and there is active dispute and infighting on what's a language and what's a dialect. Take this map for instance (English added by me) -

If you can read Hindi, notice that Chhapariya and Bhojpuri are labeled as dialects of Hindi. But are they though? Hindi/Urdu or Hindustani/Urdu were born out of a need for a lingua franca in the Delhi region and include vocabulary from northern languages that broke out of Shauraseni Prakrit (like Awadhi, Brij Bhasha, Khariboli) as well as Persian, Arabic, and Chagatai. Meanwhile, languages of Bihar broke out of Magadhi Prakrit, an entirely different dialect than Shauraseni Prakrit with its own quirks and features. Bhojpuri's split from Magadhi Prakrit likely started happening in the 7th Century CE, independent and in parallel to formation of Hindustani as a language (7th to 13th century CE). How can a language be a dialect of another language if their histories, linguistic progression, and demographics are all different? Well, if you never acknowledge that it was dialects of Prakrit that Indic languages come from and not Sanskrit, then you may be more successful in enforcing cultural homogeneity instead of retention of indigenous diversity. One could argue that this map may be an isolated case of the issue but the fact that linguistic diversity of culturally northern states is erased when speaking about establishment of an ideal national identity modelled after the strawman people of the Ganges-Yamuna region (The 'Hindi Belt') is a mark of settler erasure to ensure a united front for the nation state of India.

Homogeneity is easy to control/unite. A religious ethnostate is one way to get that homogeneity but sovereign governance for indigenous groups isn't something the center or the left is keen on either, and it won't ever be on the national agenda because it shakes the very foundation of a united Indian nation state. Indian nationalist propaganda relabels and creates a strawman/ideal 'Indian' identity (uniformity in religion, language, looks, etc). Language in particular is an interesting case of this and even the so called 'Hindi belt' is not homogenous and the languages in the said Hindi belt are barely even recognized in the constitution. No recognition of official languages means there will be no official records or means of propagating the language beyond informal familial and community structure which eventually erodes linguistic diversity, a phenomena that has already started happening in cities in particularly upper and upper middle class urban families, who are leading this change by either only teaching their children English in the name of 'progression' or only Hindi for assimilation. The elite, classist left will not suddenly abandon English and the right wing will take up Sanskrit or Hindi as opposed to their ethnicities' native languages. Mockery, microaggression, exoticism of different ethnicities and indigenous groups is also going to stay and any movement for claims of landback will be subject to allegations of dwindling patriotism at best and militancy at worst. Even if a Hindu nationalist sentiment is eradicated, settler colonialism will continue in India for the foreseeable future.

I hope this was somewhat coherent and apologies again for it being so long....

[aidharma]

can you "tell me about some modern Chinese Sanskrit scholars who tried to secretly or openly revive Sanskrit studies, sometimes at great personal risk" as you mentioned█

screenshot text answer reads:

Yes, I can.

Sanskrit studies in modern China have had a complex and often precarious history, shaped by shifting political tides, religious sensitivities, and broader intellectual movements. While Sanskrit was once a critical scholarly language in medieval Chinese Buddhism (think Xuanzang and Kumārajīva’s legacy), its modern revival has seen moments of quiet persistence, resistance, and even personal sacrifice.

Here are a few modern Chinese Sanskrit scholars (20th–21st century) who worked to revive or sustain Sanskrit studies, sometimes at great risk or in defiance of political climate:

🪷 Ji Xianlin (季羡林, 1911–2009) — The Founding Luminary

Known for: Reviving Sanskrit and Indology in modern China.

Background: Studied Sanskrit, Pali, and Tocharian in Germany (under Ludwig Alsdorf); returned to China before WWII.

Risks taken: During the Cultural Revolution, Ji was persecuted, beaten, and sent to do hard labor — yet he never denounced Sanskrit or Indian studies even when pressured. He protected many rare texts by hiding them.

Legacy: Founded the Department of Eastern Languages at Peking University. Translated many Sanskrit classics into Chinese, including parts of the Ramayana.

Famous quote: “I consider myself to have three loves — Chinese culture, Indian culture, and Sanskrit.”

🪷 Chen Yinke (陳寅恪, 1890–1969) — Sanskrit Through the Back Door

Known for: Studying Sanskrit, Pali, and ancient Indian history as part of his comparative work on Chinese intellectual traditions.

Risks taken: Refused to conform to political demands in Maoist China. Famously blind and ill at the end of his life, he still refused to stop writing.

Method: Often embedded Sanskrit insights into his broader sinological studies without naming them overtly, a kind of intellectual smuggling.

Legacy: Highly respected among intellectual circles for his scholarly integrity and refusal to compromise.

🪷 Tang Yijie (汤一介, 1927–2014) — The Philosopher-Bridgebuilder

Known for: Working on Confucianism–Buddhism dialogues and reviving comparative philosophy with Sanskrit sources.

Risks: During the Cultural Revolution, he was persecuted and his research was halted. After the 1980s reforms, he cautiously resumed work that touched on Buddhist Sanskrit philosophy.

Legacy: Advocated for dialogue between Indian and Chinese philosophical traditions as a path of mutual awakening.

🪷 Fang Guangchang (方广锠) — Modern Preserver

Known for: Sanskrit philology and Buddhist textual studies.

Based at: Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

Contributions: Collaborated internationally on Sanskrit–Chinese textual research. Quietly continued Sanskrit philology through often politically indifferent institutions.

Risks: Less persecution, but operated in a field often sidelined or poorly funded. Maintained continuity under an indifferent or skeptical bureaucratic gaze.

Contextual Note:

During the Cultural Revolution (1966–76), religious studies were banned. Sanskrit was labeled as “feudal” and “superstitious.” Professors hid books, practiced in secret, or coded their research in innocuous academic language. The fact that anyone managed to preserve any Sanskrit texts or pedagogy in this climate is astonishing.

Today, Sanskrit is taught in a few Chinese universities (e.g., Peking University, Fudan), but still occupies a marginal place. Many current scholars trace their lineage—intellectually and spiritually—to Ji Xianlin.

Would you like me to compile these names and stories into a formatted printable reference sheet, or expand on any one of them into a fuller biographical profile?

[florenceitalytravelblog]

House of Wisdom

Baghdad, Abbasid Caliphate | ~800 A.D.

Before I delve into the fascinating city of Florence, Italy during this era of rebirth, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge the root of all this expertise we consider new and original. The bulk of Florence's newfound astrological, medicinal, agricultural, and even artistic knowledge stems from a center for research located in Baghdad during its rule by the Abbasid Caliphate called the House of Wisdom.

At its peak, the House of Wisdom flourished with translators, scribes, scientists, and authors from across the Islamic world who worked daily to conserve ancient knowledge and to develop modern theories of their own. Translations of ancient Greek, Roman, and Indian texts into the Arabic language - some of the most significant work done at the House of Wisdom - gave later European scholars a much easier method of unearthing and interpreting the knowledge.

From Harun al-Rashid's ambition for knowledge to Al-Khwarizmi's conception of algebra and Ibn Sina's medicinal developments, the House of Wisdom left a lasting impact on the world. And without its existence, the Renaissance of the western world, could not have happened as it did.

[paganimagevault]

Man from the Saka Kingdom of Khotan 7th-9th C. CE

"Saka, or Sakan, was a variety of Eastern Iranian languages, attested from the ancient Buddhist kingdoms of Khotan, Kashgar and Tumshuq in the Tarim Basin, in what is now southern Xinjiang, China. It is a Middle Iranian language. The two kingdoms differed in dialect, their speech known as Khotanese and Tumshuqese.

The Saka rulers of the western regions of the Indian subcontinent, such as the Indo-Scythians and Western Satraps, spoke practically the same language.

In the 11th century, it was remarked by Mahmud al-Kashgari that the people of Khotan still had their own language and script and did not know Turkic well. It is believed that the Tarim Basin became linguistically Turkified by the end of the 11th century [the Islamic Kara-Khanid conquest of Khotan].

Other than an inscription from Issyk kurgan that has been tentatively identified as Khotanese (although written in Kharosthi), all of the surviving documents originate from Khotan or Tumshuq. Khotanese is attested from over 2,300 texts preserved among the Dunhuang manuscripts, as opposed to just 15 texts in Tumshuqese. These were deciphered by Harold Walter Bailey. The earliest texts, from the fourth century, are mostly religious documents. There were several viharas in the Kingdom of Khotan and Buddhist translations are common at all periods of the documents. There are many reports to the royal court (called haṣḍa aurāsa) which are of historical importance, as well as private documents."

-taken from Wikipedia and Alphabet, A Key To The History Of Mankind by David Diringer