#Jiang disciple = Jiang Cheng stan

[s2pdoktopus]

I do love it when there's a conversation about Jiang Cheng's deniably in committing brother murder and torture.

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Imagine JC transmigrating into our world and stumbling upon the MDZS fandom, only to see people calling him their uwu grape jiujiu and shipping him with other men. He would go on a killing spree.

Jiang Cheng with the Jiujiu stans:

[mxtxfanatic]

Was thinking about how often I see reactionary pro-Jiang Cheng content, and I just realized something: jc stans, just like their fav, believe that every good thing Wei Wuxian has—whether loved ones or good memories or admirable characteristics or character growth, whether canon or fanon—is actually the rightful property of Jiang Cheng that Wei Wuxian “stole” from him through the sin of existing, and it is their sworn duty to correct this “oversight” of canon.

Wei Wuxian gets his happily ever after with the love of his life, so jc stans give Jiang Cheng Lan Xichen and call Lan Wangji “second place.” Or they make Lan Wangji a cheater because “he actually likes Jiang Cheng more (who doesn’t, amiright?)” or Wei Wuxian a cheater because “he can never appreciate a good thing like Jiang Cheng can.” People point out how Wei Wuxian and Nie Huaisang seem to have had a closer relationship than Nie Huaisang and Jiang Cheng, so jc stans make the latter two a ship or make them the bestest friends ever that bond over being annoyed with Wei Wuxian. Wei Wuxian has a close relationship with the Wen siblings, so jc stans make Wen Qing spend all their time together saying that Jiang Cheng “was right” about him while Wen Ning is being “bullied” into being “anti-jc.”

Wei Wuxian is canonically smart and driven, so jc stans say that he is lazy while Jiang Cheng is hardworking. Wei Wuxian is canonically charismatic, so jc stans say that it was actually Jiang Cheng who was loved by all the disciples and is the sole reason the Jiang Clan of the present was able to pull in new disciples post-fall. Wei Wuxian loves to learn, so jc stans say that Jiang Cheng was actually a model student being sabotaged by the slovenly Wei Wuxian.

People imagine the Lan as accepting Wei Wuxian post-canon or imagine aus where the Lan adopt him as a child, so jc stans make Jiang Cheng the adopted Lan child, who Lan Qiren now likes better than his own nephews. People write Nie!wwx, so jc stans write about how “actually” Nie Mingjue sees Jiang Cheng as the brother he never had and views Wei Wuxian as an unwanted nuisance and competition. People make the most batshit ooc au where the QishanWen are actually good and adopt Wei Wuxian, and jc stans turn that into actually, the Jiang siblings are adopted while Wei Wuxian stays with the “totally horrible, abusive” father in Yunmeng. Fucking Baoshan Sanren descends from her mountain to look for her martial grandson, and jc stans will shove Jiang Cheng into the narrative as a disciple because “he’s just so lovable!” In all of these cases, some will still imagine that Wei Wuxian still gets left on the streets as a petty afterthought.

Shit, even some of the BAD things that happen to Wei Wuxian canonically are misappropriated by jc stans to give Jiang Cheng unearned sympathy. Wei Wuxian was whipped as a child? Now Jiang Cheng was too, but also his dad hates him. Wei Wuxian is an orphan who creates his own family in adulthood? Jiang Cheng is now disowned/an unloved runaway who later finds his people because who wouldn’t want him (amiright?). Wei Wuxian was at risk of losing his golden core completely in the transfer if it failed? Well Jiang Cheng was going to DIE! “See? Look how much harder Jiang Cheng’s life was than that pathetic attention whore Wei Wuxian! Doesn’t he deserve all the things Wei Wuxian has? Aren’t they rightfully his???”

And it’s like, you can’t even escape into fan content with this type of mentality, because look out how much I mentioned is popular fanon. Notice how ubiquitous these ideas are surrounding anything to do with Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng, even if only one of them is mentioned. No matter what anyone reads in the novel, no matter what individuals come up with in their own heads, no matter what tag or platform is used or not used to keep it out of their hands, jc stans will be there to create a reactionary counterpart to prove that nothing, nothing can ever just be Wei Wuxian’s. Because at the end of the day, the “oversight” that jc stans want to correct isn’t Jiang Cheng’s supposed depreciation by the author. The “oversight” was the author daring to say that Wei Wuxian deserves to be treated as his own person and not Jiang Cheng’s personal property. And every fandom interaction has been retaliation towards that fact.

The main character of the novel is relegated to mere a lightning rod that exists to attract all of Jiang Cheng’s bad qualities while injecting him with all of Wei Wuxian’s good, but jc stans wonder why people are upset.

[wangxianficfinder]

Fic Finder

Feb 24th

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1. Eyyyy it's me boyfriend XD (eyyyyy hello again 😊 - Mod C)

I'm here for a fic (I think it's a time travel fic) that I forgot the name of. All I remember is a scene where a village in Lotus Pier was flooded and Yanli, Jiang Cheng, and Wei Ying went to aid the people. Lan Zhan and Jin Zixuan also tagged along but Lan Zhan is openly courting Wei Ying on that fic while Jin Zixuan is being himself

And that's sadly all that I remember 😔. Thank you!

FOUND? This is probably a stretch but #1 isnt And Time Is But a Paper Moon by sami (M, 139k, WangXian, XiChengQing, Time Travel, Fix-It, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies, Healing, Mental Health Issues, PTSD, Hurt/Comfort, Depression, BAMF WWX, BAMF JC, BAMF LWJ, BAMF JYL, Getting Together), is it?

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2. There was this fic I read sometime ago and it was about how lan Wangji accidentally uses silencing spell on wwx too hard that wwx isn't able to open his mouth again and lan Wangji isn't able to lift the spell. It's during the cloud recesses study arc and the major issues with the permanent silencing spell is that Wei Wuxian isn't able to even eat anything and he can't practice inedia fir long. Please find this fic?

FOUND? 🧡 Couldn't Scream Couldn't Shout by mermorgie (T, 42k, WIP, WangXian, Not for jc stans, i tried to not bash jc too much but like, Muteness, Sign Language, references to selective mutism, Homophobic JC, canon jc characteristics, Implied/Referenced Child Abuse, Anxiety Attacks, Pining, LWJ is a Panicked Gay, Supportive Sibling LXC, JZX Tries, LQR Tries, Protective JZX, Scheming NHS, Bisexual JZX, LWJ is Bad at Communicating, WWX Has ADHD, Autistic LWJ, WWX Has a Fear of Dogs, Jiāng Family Bashing)

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3. hi !! this is for ficfinder, i'm looking for this modern au with crime elements ?? i think wwx is a thief/pickpocket, and lwj and the lan clan are organised crime ish but art associated. lsz and ljy were also heavily featured as mentees of lwj, wwx makes a playlist. it was multi-chap, probs over 30k. they correspond over email quite a bit, and it's set in multiple cities, there's an entire chap where they talk to each other in logical fallacies and friere is quoted. tysm !!

FOUND! (i’ve got) trouble in mind by seularen (E, 76k, wangxian, JGY/LXC, modern w magic, heist au, thief WWX, forger LWJ, consigliere JGY, epistolary, long-distance relationship, d/d elements, Canon wangxian kinks, happy ending)

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4. Brain cannot brain rn so I need you guys' help finding a fic

So like, it was a Canon divergent fic where wwx submitted himself to the clans and was ordered to be cleansed of resentful energy in order to... prove he wasn't corrupted? Something like that? For the Wens? And it was ritual dual cultivation. He was sent blindfolded to a room so he couldn't tell who it would be (it was lwj, of course.) Wwx knew it wouldn't exactly work cuz he didn't have a core, but he did it anyway.

There was a second.... part? Chapter? The was from Lwj's pov of after, where he finds out about the core, then JC? A Jiang disciple? Shows up to tell them to get their asses to the conference hall because JGS is being JGS and this whole thing was mostly just a distraction

That's all I can remember, thanks for the help!

Hi 👋 4 from the latest fic finder, a friend on discord found the fic I was looking for! It was 'the meaning of the ritual' by newamsterdam

FOUND! the meaning of the ritual by newamsterdam (E, 8k, wangxian, Explicit Sexual Content, Blindfolds, Light Bondage, Ritual Sex, Canon Divergence, Let LWJ Fuck the YLLZ 2k19, First Time Blow Jobs, Anal Sex, Porn with Feelings)

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5. I'm hoping you can help me find a fic.I haven't had any luck searching for it. I think it's a time travel fic. At one point it's during the Cloud Recesses classes. Jiang Fengmian is the Chief Cultivator and comes to talk to Jiang Cheng. They're talking in Nie Huaisang's room and he and Lan Xichen are standing outside it. Jin Zixuan walks by talking loudly about Jiang Yanli in a really rude way and Jiang Fengmian hears him and comes out to confront him. Any help would be appreciated!

FOUND! We'll Build A Dynasty (one the heavens can't shake) by One_eyed_God (T, 66k, wangxian, WQ & WWX, WN & WWX, JYL & WWX, canon typical Jiang family dynamics, BAMF WWX, Canon JC Characteristics, POV Outsider, Hurt/Comfort, Pre-Relationship, WWX is a Wēn, Sect Leader WWX, Genius WWX, The Casual Intimacy of Hand-Holding, A Love Letter to WWX, Minor JYL/LXC, Not JC Friendly, Time Travel Fix-It) the scene described happens about a third of the way into the first chapter

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6. Hello and I hope I'm doing this right. I remember this fic that's set in the modern setting and mo xuanyu is recently married (engaged?) To lan zhan but wei ying takes over the body and then just decides to follow along. Lan Zhan ends up finding out that it's a different soul and ends up falling in love with him. I don't remember the name and I hope you can find it if it's not deleted. Thank you! @nightshade2017

FOUND! Write It on My Neck by diamondbruise (E, 23k, wangxian, A/B/O, Transmigration, Alpha LWJ, Omega WWX, Fake Marriage, Falling In Love, Jealousy, Happy Ending, Anal Sex, Spanking, usual wangxian cnc elements, Misunderstandings)

is it a transfiguration as opposed to resurrection?

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7. hello! love what you’re doing with the blog! i need help finding a fic: i remember it was lqr pov and at one point lwj left the lan sect behind to go to the burial mounds and lqr and some other elders go to investigate and find o ur lwj and wwx married and adopted a gaggle of children. i remember lqr nagging on lwj for disrespecting lan rules bcs he was wearing like too many adornments and spoiling the kids. also the rabbits had their own pen in there.

FOUND? 🔒 Unpack Your Heart by Terri Botta (Isilwath) (T, 22k, wangxian, Romance, Everybody Lives, Canon Divergence, LWJ Has Feelings, Protective LWJ, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, LWJ Stays at the Burial Mounds, Burial Mounds Ensemble as Family, Wangxian in Love, YLLZ WWX, Lan Clan Elders are Assholes, Minor Transgender Character, Qiongqi Path Divergence, LWJ loves his bunnies)

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8. Hello! I'm looking for a fic which I cannot remember the name of. The main things I remember are that Meng Yao stays for the Cloud recesses lectures and roommates with Nie Huaisang. The only scene I can remember is Nie Huaisang ends up mudering a Jin disciple who tried to kill Meng Yao with a rope. Wei Wuxian ends up finding them afterwards and getting help right after.

FOUND? somewhere to belong by KouriArashi (T, 62k, LXC/JGY, JGY & NHS, wangxian, JGY & WWX, Canon Divergence, Friendship, Developing Relationship, Families of Choice, Class Issues, Bullying, Light Angst, Politics, Eventual Plot, Happy Ending)

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9. Hello, I am looking for a fic where Wei Wuxian is not brought into the body of Mo Xuanyu. Rather a random cultivator does the ritual instead as revenge for killing his family in the nightless city. His terms are for Wei Wuxian to despair, so naturally WWX finds Lan Wangji and falls in love only for the ritual wounds to start trying to kill him for not despairing. He nearly loses his arm before they figure out how to save him. Happy ending.

There's also a few bits about WWX trying to get the sword of his body's og owner to come around and work with him. @shinyobsessed

FOUND! A Storm of Laughter in the Stillness of the Jingshi by OnlyMeAndMyBones, 2nd in series (T, 74k, wangxian, LXC & LWJ, LXC & WWX, angst w happy ending, hurt/comfort, injury, recovery, mental illness, depression, PTSD, rehabilitation, slow burn, empathy, guilt, forgiveness, suicidal thoughts)

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10. Hi! Can someone help me find this fic, please?

Lan Wangji is a post-war-soldier and nowadays is actually helping people to adopt a therapeutic “bunnie”. A man named Wei Ying goes there trying to find a bunnie to adopt, lwj get supper mad because this “man” is loud and disastrous and ask (order) him to go out of there. Later he learns with lxc that “Wei Ying” is actually Wei Wuxian, one of the most dangerous people from the war.

Lwj gets sad about his treatment towards wwx, because both of them are very traumatized by the war. That’s the beginning for their future relationship. It’s setting in modern setting too.

Thank you! @weicongee

FOUND? Recovery by Unforth (G, 27k, WangXian, Modern AU, Rabbit Breeder LWJ, Veteran LWJ, Veteran WWX, PTSD, therapy animals, Therapy Rabbits, LWJ is an Asshole Sometimes, Doctor WQ, Fluff and Angst, Happy Ending, Former Prisoner of War WWX, LXC is a Good Brother, Gray Asexual LWJ, Anxiety Disorder)

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11. Hi hi! There's a modern au fic I'm looking for that I can't find no matter how many tag searches I do! It's a modern au where wwx gets drunk and sad bc he loves lwj and he doesn't think he cares for him back. Nhs calls lwj for a rise home for him, but wwx doesn't know its him and "services" him on the way home if you know what I mean

I think it ends with nhs texting one of them to talk to each other so they finally get together

FOUND?🔒Nie Huaisang plays cupid like a baller by KizuKatana (M, 10k, WangXian, Accidental drunken confession, Dirty Talk, sort of mistaken identity, Alcohol as a Coping Mechanism, so much pining, So many tropes)

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12. hello i am looking for a fic where lan wangji is a stripper and wei wuxian is the bodyguard who is protective of him, and it was probably xianwang @ahiku-chan

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13. hi! Last year I read a fic where Wei Ying is kept imprisoned or like in an unresponsive state in Jin Guangyao’s secret room behind the mirror. He’s accidentally consumes/cursed with a spell that requires him to have sex to stay alive? Jin Guangyao then calls Jiang Cheng to pick him up and they return to Lotus Pier where after a couple of days Wei Ying like I have to leave cause I don't deserve to be here. Lan Zhan then finds him in a state of delirium. That was the last update then. Thank you sm

FOUND? 🔒 The Return series by LtLJ (G, 63k, JC & WWX, wangxian, WWX & WQ, WN & WQ, Canon Divergence, Yunmeng Brothers Reconciliation, Angst with a Happy Ending, Canon-Typical Violence, BAMF WWX, BAMF JC, YLLZ WWX, BAMF LWJ, five year old JL, ten year old LSZ, ten year old LJY, discussion of a canon suicide attempt, canon-typical curses, Angry sabre spirits, BAMF Everybody, Complicated Relationships, they're trying but they aren't there yet, BAMF NHS, Canon-Typical Behavior, Hurt/Comfort, WQ Lives, WWX & WQ Friendship, BFFs)

FOUND? till our ribs get tough by feelslikefire (E, 38k, JC/WWX, wangxian, WIP, Dubious Consent, Forced Feminization, magical pussy, Sex Pollen, Fuck Or Die, Possessive Behavior, Breeding Kink, Canon Divergence, Top JC, Top LWJ, Bottom WWX, Bondage, bondage via Zidian, Dubcon Somnophilia, WWX has possessive boyfriends but luckily he's into it, Intercrural Sex, Cunnilingus, Anal Sex, Spanking, Pussy Spanking, Dirty Talk, Porn With Plot, Oral Sex, Rough Sex) It has fuck or die and starts with Wei Wuxian being kept in the secret room

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14. Hi! I'm looking for a fic that I clicked on in tumblr (possibly through your page, I have no clue) read about half the first chapter put my phone down and then reloaded the app it went all the way back to the top of the feed, never to see the fic again 😭

It was a Canon divergence AU, WWX thought Something Was Probably Up when he got the invite to JL's one month celebration so went in disguise as a woman, and the first line was him hitting on LWJ, who obviously twigged almost right away and took him to an inn, and that was all I got to.

Sorry it's not much to go on but hopefully someone recognises it! Thank yooou 💕 @scenicpixie

FOUND! My Leaves Reach Ever for the Sun by nonplussed (T, 26k, WangXian, Fake/Pretend Relationship, Fix-It, Crossdressing, Idiots in Love, Sharing a Bed, Canon Divergence, Happy Ending, Mutual Pining, Everyone Lives/Nobody Dies)

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15. hi can u plshelp me find this fic it's driving me crazy as i don't remember the name

Basically wwx and lwj are already married but wwx wears a mask all the time and tbh they barely get to see each other like during the cave scene here lwj kept on deliriously calling his name they then kissed for the first time (they were already married during this)and then lwj pushed him away like literally ...

also they like had sex for the first time at where wwx was sitting w his ghost girls(they were already married during this too)...the ghost girls were still there this time lwj jus appeared wwx waxed poetry abt him jus standing there(who woudnt)he indirectly told wwx to not commit infidelity wwx seductively walked to him seduced him they fucked then wwx pushed him away literally and yea lwj went away

also wwx had adopted some babies too at the end i rmb

and yea during all this wwx wore tht fucking mask

FOUND? sounds like A Price to Pay by wangxianist which unfortunately has been deleted. 😭

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16. hellooo, i'm looking for a fic where wei ying came from new york (i think) it was somewhere in america to china. wei ying lives with lan zhan along with his uncle and brother. i still remember a scene where lan zhan asked wei ying to take off his shoes but he misunderstood and took off his pants instead lol. thanks!!!

FOUND? The Fifth Type of Non-Contact Force by Caixx (Not Rated, 83k, WangXian, Modern AU, High School, Slice of Life, Slow Burn, Fluff and Humor, Actually Somewhat Canon, Mutual Pining, Horny Teenagers, Angst with a Happy Ending, Non-Graphic Smut)

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17. Hi, I'm not sure if this is how this works. If I'm doing it wrong please let me know.

I've been looking everywhere for a story where Wei Ying is a reincarnated phoenix and doesn't know it. He eventually finds out and because of everything he goes through, he's taken over by the pheonix, and the firebird part of him wants to destroy the world.

I remember the sects locked him in the Gusu caves while they tried to find out how to control him.

Eventually Lan Zhan figures out a loophole where the Phoenix/firebird agrees to hold off until Lan Zhan dies...and then Lan Zhan cultivates immortality as a loophole. I remember it was on AO3 and was complete.

I'd be grateful for any help you guys could give me. @vitolieltrue

FOUND? Breathing Firestorm by ladyshadowdrake (M, 110k, wangxian, angst, fluff, captivity, creepy WRH, no non-con, dreamsharing, politics, people making the best decisions they can, epic length, mythical creature WWX, canon-typical violence, dark, happy ending)

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18. Hii i have a fic i cant seem to find anymore T_T. It was modern, explicit, with genderbent wangxian and pretty much just smut. I have this vivid recollection of butch lan wangji with short hair sitting in a bar (?). Then (but this might be me confusing two fics together tbh) they agreed to a deal where lwj showed wwx how to kiss, how to be intimate etc, and theyd have lessons at lwj's house every few days or such.

FOUND! throw the keys back by dustyloves (E, 31k, wangxian, F/F, Gender Changes, Cisswap, Modern, College/University, The Porn Is the Plot, Virginity Kink, Dom/sub, Teacher/Student Roleplay, Sexting, Dirty Talk, Non-Consensual Spanking, Mild Painplay, Mutual Pining, Orgasm Delay/Denial, Under-negotiated Kink, despite the tags it's actually quite soft)

NOT FOUND! sideways by vesna (mrsronweasley) (E, 20k, wangxian, F/F, Modern, Cisswap, butch dyke LWJ, Casual Sex, not so casual sex, many many orgasms, Fingerfucking, Cunnilingus, strap-on sex, So much kissing, WWX gets rekt, straight girl WWX, except for how she isn't)

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19. For the fic finder, I saw someone mention a fic in which after LWJ and WWX wander off with their donkey in the novel epilogue, they come back and find that LWJ's been voted Chief Cultivator behind his back. He does not take this well. Does anyone know of it? @kedaliya

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20. Hey I'm looking for this fic where either WY or LZ is a camboy and the other accidentally finds the account. They subscribe and continues to watch their channel behind their back.

But the camboy eventually finds out and they have a fight regarding respect and boundaries. All is well in the end but the camboy is extremely disappointed the other went behind his back to watch his channel and pretended like he didn't know anything. The other party apologises.

Does it ring any bell? @imstillthinkingaboutithmm

FOUND? For a Good Time, Call by ScarlettStorm (E, 170k, WangXian, Modern AU, Getting Together, Pining, Porn, like in the writing and also as a plot point, onlyfans au, repressed LWJ, sex worker WWX, Minor Angst, major shenanigans, Background ChengQing, background NieLan, background XuanLi, Nonbinary NHS)

FOUND? ❤️ All Old Things are New Again by The Feels Whale (miscellea) (M, 52k, wangxian, modern, reincarnation, sugar daddy, kink negotiation, gentle dom LWJ) HGBun has reached immortality and finally finds WWX reincarnated

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[ddthebreadboy]

The Case of Jiang Cheng's Canon Selective Amnesia

Jiang Cheng at MDZS chapter 59:

"Lan WangJi and Jin ZiXuan and those people can just die! Just let them die! What's their deaths got to do with us?! To do with our sect?! Why did this have to happen?! Why?!

"Go die, go die, go die! Everyone!!!"

And yet Jiang Cheng at MDZS chapter 87:

Jiang Cheng mocked, "Look how forgetful you are. What does unwelcome people mean? Then let me remind you. It was because you played the hero and saved Second Young Master Lan, who's standing beside you right now, that the entire Lotus Pier and my parents went down with you---, "

From blaming Jin Zixuan and Lan Wangji, into blaming Lan Wangji alone🙃🙃

Why?

Duh of course because Jin Zixuan has married his sister🥱

The so called sin of causing a sect to be exterminated can be erased as long as you marry the sister~

Oh. I Forgot to add the REAL thought of Jiang Cheng at MDZS chapter 59:

In his heart, Jiang Cheng knew clearly that back in the cave of the Xuanwu of Slaughter at Muxi Mountain, even if Wei WuXian hadn't saved Lan WangJi, the Wen Sect would have found some reason to come over sooner or later.

Dude knew perfectly why the massacre happened at all. Yet refuse to face reality. C'mon, call some psychologist here, a delusional patient who refuse to see reality may have been spotted.

In addition, the REAL people whom Wen Chao wanted to kill and thus were saved by Wei Wuxian in Xuanwu Cave were (MDZS ch 52):

Wen Chao was enraged, shouting, "How dare you! Kill them!"

A few of the Wen Sect's disciples unsheathed their swords, rushing toward Lan WangJi and Jin ZiXuan.

Yes. It is Lan Wangji and Jin Zixuan.

Not only Lan Wangji but also JIN FUCKINN ZIXUAN!

Alright, next:

Wen Chao looked as if his mood was much better. He spat, "Talking back to me, what did you think you are? People like you really do deserve to be killed."

Who talked back to Wen Chao?

Oh, let's look back a while ago:

Jin ZiXuan lifted his brows, "Is that enough? It wasn't enough for people to be flesh shields for you, and now you want live humans to bleed for you to use as bait?!"

Wei WuXian found this somewhat surprising, So Jin ZiXuan really does have some nerve.

Wen Chao pointed at them, "Are you rebelling against me? Let me warn you, I've been tolerating you for a very long time. Right now, hang the brat up with your own hands! Or else none of the people from your sects can expect to return!"

Jin ZiXuan sneered and refused to budge. Lan WangJi also looked as though he had heard nothing, so motionless that he seemed to be meditating.

Oh MY GOD! The one who angered Wen Chao first and talked back to him, it turned out it was Jin Zixuan all along!

That mighty Heir of the venerated LanlingJin, Jin Zixuan!

My my my...

To think that Jiang Cheng acted as if it was Lan Wangji solely who offended Wen Chao and needed to be saved... But the reality were...🧐🧐

The young and mighty Sandu Sengshou must have problem with hearing and seeing for him to think that the one Wei Wuxian saved is only Lan Wangji, right?

Or maybe Selective amnesia?

Oh!

It is because Jin Zixuan has married the Sister so the "so called sin" Got defaulted🙃

(All Excerpts are from ExRebel FanTrans)

***

JC (toxic ones) Stan: Listen to our babyCheng, Lan Wangji is the reason YunmengJiang got destroyed!

JC throughout the MDZS: It's me~! Hi~! I'm the problem, it's me~! (The one who has problem with hearing, seeing, delusional tendency, plus selective amnesia)

[twinclownsoflotuspiers]

On Jiang Cheng and whether what he did was “redeemable” (why is this even an argument?)

DISCLAIMER: While I am cross-posting this from Twitter from when I wrote this in the wake of a discourse there a while back, small note that I DO NOT APPRECIATE MY META TO BE USED FOR FANWARS be it for speculations re “who is better between jc and wwx” OR “jc stan vs wwx stan”. Let’s just have fun conversations like mature people please.

Regarding whether Jiang Cheng is sensitive and an asshole sometimes, yes he is (and I love him for it) but is he only just that and not a compelling character of his own with layers? I’d argue there by saying as “questionable” as a lot of his decisions feel, he actually never went the wrong way or took wrong decisions despite everything. Controversial take? Hardly if you judge it according to the setting and the circumstances.

Was his part in the siege "problematic" and difficult to reconcile with? Yes. Is it difficult to love him for his grudge against the Wens? Maybe so. Did he hurt Wei Wuxian, whether willingly or impulsively? Also yes. Did he hate Wei Wuxian? It's more complex than hate but let's say he did. But did he also love and mourn Wei Wuxian in his own way? Absolutely. There have been several meta in the past on how Jiang Cheng’s hatred of Wei Wuxian is directly proportional to the amount of love he holds for the man so I shall not go into more detail on just how much Jiang Cheng actually loves Wei Wuxian. You guys should get it already.

Not taking into account the "morality" arguments of his actions because that's a discussion for another day, I'd say he had his reasons for what he did. Don’t know why people forget the fact that Yunmeng Jiang was the only sect to have its root clan completely annihilated AND their sect entirely plundered in the Wen attack. He LITERALLY BUILT THE ENTIRE SECT FROM SCRATCH and I'm not talking about the structure alone. I'm talking people, reputation, fighting power, making cultivators out of non cultivators, financial alternatives blah blah. A reminder that Jiang Cheng also mostly did it all alone. 

Jiang Yanli while a Jiang is ultimately a woman (always read a book according to the period it's set in). She will be married into the Jin household and will be called “Jin Furen”. Wei Wuxian during the bulk of that time was stuck in the Mounds & unable to assist in the rebuilding. Jiang Cheng had to rebuild both recruits, gather enough funds to rebuild the sect structure or merely only for enough food for all perhaps, teach them the Jiang martial arts because he is literally the last Jiang standing AND somehow convince the rest of the great sects to allow Yunmeng Jiang into the war. If we look at it from the war perspective, the Sunshot Alliance also had no reason to necessarily trust a recently destroyed sect so easily when Yunmeng Jiang literally had nothing to offer apart from one battered Jiang heir who was determined to fight, one Jiang daughter who wasn't a cultivator and a missing head disciple (more on war politics some other day because I personally love the Sunshot Era and want to discuss it in detail). 

And you'd think Yunmeng Jiang would miraculously suddenly become rich overnight right after the war? No. The Sunshot campaign continued for an approx. 3 years. That means much more resources and manpower used up. More deaths. Which also means the death of even some of the new Jiang recruits because Yunmeng Jiang was the weakest during that time, the only sect with an uneven motley of new recruits - possibly more non cultivators than cultivators because how many people even take up cultivation. Jiang Cheng would have to continue rebuilding and garnering support even after the war for the sake of his people. And Yunmeng Jiang wouldn't be credited majorly for the Campaign either - the main credit went to Gusu Lan, Qinghe Nie and Lanling Jin who ALSO formed an alliance along with the Venerated Triad (there is also geography factors in play here). Yunmeng Jiang was literally left alone and fighting to even exist.

We can have morality based arguments regarding Jiang Cheng’s participation in the Siege, but politically it was the best decision he could have taken because it was either that or waiting for a second annihilation of Yunmeng Jiang. Had he decided to stand by Wei Wuxian and Wei Wuxian chosen not to defect? They would've branded Yunmeng Jiang the next "Wens" and in want for power and crushed them. Jiang Cheng had to make a choice between saving one person and saving the people he looks over and he made his choice as a GOOD leader. And Wei Wuxian understood that, which is why HE also decided to defect on his own accord.

Jiang Cheng spoke, “Wei Wuxian, have you still not realized what the situation at hand is like? Do you really need me to say it out loud? If you insist on protecting them, then I won’t be able to protect you.”

Wei Wuxian, “There’s no need to protect me. Just let go.”

Jiang Cheng’s face twisted.

Wei Wuxian, “Just let go. Tell the world that I defected. From now on, no matter what Wei Wuxian does, it’d have nothing to do with the Yunmeng Jiang Sect.” [GDC Chapter 73: Recklessness. Cr. ExR]

There is also a bit in the lower paragraphs in the same chapter where Jiang Cheng demands if Wei Wuxian has a savior complex and Wei Wuxian doesn’t answer instead insists on cutting ties so whatever he does wouldn’t affect the Sect which is followed by an inner monologue where Wei Wuxian can’t even guarantee what he himself do. (Very cool foreshadow). TL;DR: Wei Wuxian defected by his own choice because he wanted to PROTECT THE SECT TOO.

Wei Wuxian stayed quiet. A while later, he answered, “So that’s why we should cut ties right now, in case anything I do affects the Yunmeng Jiang Sect in the future.”

Or else, he really couldn’t make any guarantees on what he’d do in the future.

DESPITE it all, let me remind you, Jiang Cheng did in fact try to defend at least the Wen siblings.  He didn't have to because that could actually put Yunmeng Jiang into an awkward position yet he did. Jiang Cheng wasn't privy to the core exchange so he didn't know what they'd done and hence had no reason to be grateful to them. The most he knew was, the siblings helped shelter them and got back his parents’ bodies and he does show gratitude for it or at least tries to explain why they owe them a debt but he is cut off before he could even complete saying how and why they owe gratitude. Quoting once again:

“.....I apologize to all of the Sect Leaders. Everyone, I’m afraid you don’t know that the Wen cultivator whom Wei Wuxian wanted to save was called Wen Ning. We owe him and his sister Wen Qing gratitude for what happened during the Sunshot Campaign.”

Nie Mingjue, “You owe them gratitude? Isn’t the Qishan Wen Sect the ones who caused the Yunmeng Jiang Sect’s annihilation?” [GDC Chapter 73]

(Small addendum, but I personally believe Jiang Cheng doesn’t have to be grateful for the golden core sacrifice either but that’s a discussion I shall not touch here because MDZS fandom is not capable of nuance regarding this subject at all, and I’d just spark either Wei Wuxian hate or Jiang Cheng hate, neither of which is my goal and both of which I think is absolutely stupid. On to the rest with no more tangents.)

As for the "Jiang Cheng went around killing demonic cultivators", literally the only source is from an INN KEEPER. And MDZS at its core is a novel that talks about how the truth is so often distorted to fit the popular narrative. Did he go around killing demonic cultivators? Who the fuck knows, we headcanon as we like. But the fact remains that IT WAS NEVER CONFIRMED. I have also seen people use in argument the lines from the first Jiang Cheng appearance (I forgot the scene exactly) where there is a small POV shift and Jiang Cheng is thinking to himself “It’s alright, I have done things like this before.” which, okay, valid point and argument but it can also easily allude to atrocities done during the war. I personally find it interesting that Jiang Cheng has to personally soothe and convince himself before capturing a demonic cultivator like this at all. But anyway, my first argument still stands - it was never CONFIRMED. (I’d love to meta, albeit GOOD FAITH, on this subject just saying.)

Whether Jiang Cheng hunted demonic cultivators to find Wei Wuxian in order to "kill" him again, I don't think that's it. Or at least, I don’t think it’s so simple. Grief is multifaceted and different people deal with it differently. Lan Wangji indulged in self-destructive behavior (Branding himself with the Wen brand) in grief before gradually beginning to accept. Jiang Cheng did it in other destructive ways like being in denial of Wei Wuxian's death and masking his grief with hatred when in fact he was mourning too. The reason why he gives Chenqing in the end and the fact that Chenqing is sleek and new and obviously well cared for is symbolic to Jiang Cheng's underlying care and grief that continued to stay despite how much he tried to pretend he absolutely despises Wei Wuxian. And his "giving away" of Chenqing is symbolic to his final acceptance of things as they are. If Jiang Cheng truly hated Wei Wuxian, he would've done everything to expose his identity to the world and get him killed or killed him himself in that inn instead of questioning him about things and telling him to apologize to his parents. Quoting because I think this bit is actually pretty significant:

Jiang Cheng interrupted, “It’s just what? You can’t say it? Don’t worry, you can go back to Lotus Pier and say your excuses while kneeling in front of my parents’ graves.” [GDC Chapter 24. Cr. ExR]

THIS BITCH, FOR ALL HIS DRAMATIC INSISTENCE ON HATING WEI WUXIAN, TELLS THE VERY MAN HE CLAIMS HE HATES THAT HE WANTS EXPLANATIONS FOR WHATEVER HE DID IN THE PAST AND THAT WEI WUXIAN CAN “GO BACK TO LOTUS PIER AND KNEEL” AT THE ANCESTRAL HALL. If that isn’t just the Jiang Cheng way of saying “this is me giving you a chance. Just tell me why you did all that you did” then I don’t fucking know what else is. (He is so pathetic and has such an ironically huge heart I love him)

Jiang Cheng is bad at feelings. He’s bad at being honest with his feelings. I made another meta long back on how Jiang Cheng always addresses the hurt of people close to him but never his own hurt because he is second to even his own self but that’s for another day. It even actually took him until nearly the last chapter (102) to admit verbally he was hurt, so goddamn HURT that Wei Wuxian left him so the above quote IS in fact Jiang Cheng genuinely wanting explanations from Wei Wuxian. Quoting once again on the chapter 102 bit:

He choked, “....You said I’d be the sect leader and you’d be my subordinate, you said you’d help me your whole life, you said you’d never betray the Yunmeng Jiang Sect....you said so yourself.” [GDC Chapter 102. Cr. ExR]

A small tangent because I just think it’s interesting again but in the reveal scene in Jin Guangyao’s basement/secret room, Jiang Cheng was actually given an opportunity to directly expose Wei Wuxian yet again where he is directly addressed but he just teethered and debated with himself because “yes I already knew Wei Wuxian is back” and “I can’t agree with Jin Guangyao or else I will expose my idiot shixiong” AND “I can’t oppose him either because MY IDIOT SHIXIONG JUST PULLED OUT SUIBIAN IN FRONT OF EVERYONE”. See, that particular bit could have just easily stuck to “Jiang Cheng decided to stay silent and hence agree without agreeing outright” or any other vaguer wordings for that matter but the narrative makes it a point to show that he is in fact fucking conflicted because he still wants to protect Wei Wuxian. Quoting:

Jin Ling suddenly shouted, “Wait! Uncle, wait! D-didn’t my uncle hit him with Zidian back at Dafan Mountain? His soul didn’t get whipped out, so it must mean that he didn’t possess this body, right? And so he can’t be Wei Wuxian right?!”

Jiang Cheng’s face looked very dark. He didn’t speak as his hand pressed onto the hilt of his sword, as though he was thinking about what to do. [GDC Chapter 50. Cr. ExR]

This is turning out too long, pardon the tangents. But regarding Shuangjie’s bond, breaking and tale in its entirety, it's way more complex than deciding who is the true villain between them or who is more redeemable between them. Heck their temple talk ENDS at the fact that who should truly apologize when they both hurt & got hurt.

Suddenly, he said, “I’m sorry.”

Wei Wuxian hesitated, “....You don’t need to say sorry.”

At this point, it was impossible to figure out who should apologize to whom. [GDC Chapter 103. Cr. ExR]

To end on whether Jiang Cheng was right or is he “irredeemable” for all he did; Jiang Cheng is as much a victim as is Wei Wuxian. He was hurt as much as Wei Wuxian was. He has as much valid reasons for his actions as Wei Wuxian does. Whether or not Jiang Cheng is a good or bad guy depends on perspectives and your tastes. But I can say with confidence that he isn't irredeemable, nor is he unreasonable. And more importantly he is very deeply human in a very raw and poignant way. And humans are flawed and that's the beauty of them. Besides what is the concept of “redemption” anyway if not an extremely personal one?

Jiang Cheng was right to grieve. He was right to choose to save Yunmeng Jiang. He was right to be hurt and not pretend otherwise. Jiang Cheng is complicated and morally grey but ultimately very much relatable and understandable as a character but if only you choose to look at him without the bias that comes with the narrative perspective.

End meta/rant, OMFG THIS WAS TOO LONG.

[thisisallthehattersfault]

Thoughts on the Sect Leader Wen Sizhui AU

The Sunshot campaign fails. Meng Yao and Wen Qing together manage to convince Wen Ruohan not to kill the various sect leaders and instead to subjugate them. Some are allowed to keep leading their sects as vassal sects to the Wen. Others are completely absorbed into the Wen. All are forced to share any secret knowledge or techniques they may have.

Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan marry, but are kept in Qishan to be used as hostages to ensure to good behavior of Jiang Cheng, Wei Wuxian, and Jin Guangshan.

(Jin Guangshan thinks he has Wen Ruohan’s good graces because he barely took part in the war and immediately surrendered, but actually Wen Ruohan is fond of Meng Yao and, as a result, thinks Jin Guangshan is trash.)

Nie Huiasang is kept to ensure the good behavior of Nie Mingjue. Lan Wangji is kept to ensure the good behavior of Lan Xichen.

With both Wen Chao and Wen Xu dead, Wen Ruohan has only one living heir: His grandson, Wen Xu’s only child, Wen Yuan.

Once again Meng Yao and Wen Qing manage to convince Wen Ruohan that the hostages could be valuable as teachers -- they’re all members of the gentry who are either skilled cultivators or (in Jiang Yangli’s case) talented administrators, and all of them have knowledge that will be useful for the heir of... basically the entire world.

They’re all always being watched by Wen disciples, but nonetheless a-Yuan becomes close to his various teachers. As he grows older, he starts to notice their fear and the way they’re all treated, and decides he doesn’t like that.

It takes years of careful maneuvering, but eventually basically all of the guards around Wen Yuan and the sect leaders are the ones who follow Wen Ning and Wen Qing, which allows everybody to have a little bit more freedom of movement.

When Wen Yuan gets a little bit older, Wen Ruohan demands all of the sect heirs his age be sent to Qishan to be raised as his personal attendants.

Junior Quartet are the main squad obviously but there are other kids too.

Sizhui is still named Sizhui but this time it’s in honor of his father and uncle, since I stan Family Man Wen Ruohan

Sizhui does not want to kill his grandfather! Wen Ruohan is good to him! But.

Wen Sizhui, his teachers, his servants, and the Wen disciples under Wen Ning, all ultimately collaborate to stage a coup. In the process, Wangxian get together, Yunmeng siblings reconcile, Jin brothers become besties, and the Junior Quartet go full poly.

Sizhui works to help the other sects re-establish themselves, but by now there’s so much weirdness that a lot of them just... kind of merge. Lan Wangji is the second young master of the Lan Sect but he’s also an honored teacher and the defacto father figure of the Wen Sect Leader so his Lan robes have little gold fire decals alongside the silver clouds. Wei Wuxian is Jiang but he’s also kind of Wen. The Jin and Ouyang remain vassal sects to the Wen so that Jin Ling and Zizhen can marry Sizhui. Lan Xichen ends up having his own kid (3zun endgame?) so Jingyi isn’t the heir anymore and he can also live with his husbands.

Wen Qing opens an all-sect medical school.

Wen Ning marries Qin Su and they have half a dozen little doe-eyed babies that have their Wei-Shushu and their Lan-Shushu wrapped around their little fingers.

[mikkeneko]

For choose violence ask game: 6, 12, 21, 24 (I was thinking mdzs but if you prefer to do them for another fandom go for it!)

Lots of options! Starting from the top!

6. which ship fans are the most annoying? ... for SVSSS.

I considered this for MDZS, but nothing really fit the bill. Other people doing this meme have named some subsets of WangXian stans, and while I can see the frustration, my OTP is also WangXian so those don't usually annoy me personally. XiYao and other 3Zun combos don't impinge on my enjoyment any, various F/F shippers are fine, juniors shippers bounce right off me... there are some specific types of character stans that annoy me but not so much ship fans.

However, I'd say that there is a specific subset of ship fans in SVSSS that do annoy the heck out of me -- LiuJiu shippers who seem to have decided that Shen Jiu is the actual one true hero of SVSSS and Liu Qingge is the one sole, shining source of reason who Understood Him (what?) and every other character is a horrible monster for doing him dirty. This character assassination starts at Luo Binghe (okay fair) extends to Shen Yuan (he didn't even get there until SJ was dead!) and Yue Qingyuan (c'mon, really?) and around the point where the ship thesis was explaining how Mu Qingfang was actually a horrible monster who denied medical care to all the disciples on Qing Jing Peak out of unfounded malicious spite against Shen Jiu, I was turned off this particular mindset quite permanently.

12. the unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them... also for SVSSS

I dunno that I've got one of these. I think I don't tend to get into fandoms where the characters I like are broadly unpopular. There are characters who are divisive, but they tend to have fervent defenders as well as detractors (Anders from DA, Jiang Cheng from MDZS.) And characters that are broadly unpopular, well, I don't usually like them much either.

How about Zhuzhi-lang? I like Zhuzhi-lang. I don't know that he's unpopular so much that generally just doesn't seem to get much attention overall. Same for Tianlang-jun, maybe. Anyway what I like about ZZL specifically is that particular combination of sweet, good-hearted nature and absolutely blue and orange morality. You showed kindness to me and I love you! Now I will repay you by completely ruining your life. This step is completely logical and I can't see how anyone else wouldn't get it.

21. part of canon you think is overhyped... for MDZS

Guanyin Temple. I will not elaborate.

24. topic that brings up the most rancid discourse... for MDZS

Absolutely everything relating to the Jiang family dysfunction. You can get takes in a spectrum running from "Yu Ziyuan was right to treat Wei Wuxian as she did because he was a bad seed and it doesn't count as abuse because it was normal for the setting" to "suggesting there's any kind of complex dynamics at play or that any of the people involved are any more complicated than a 2d papercut monster is abuse apologism" to "Jiang Cheng should simply have Understood that everything his parents and culture taught him was completely wrong, on his own, in a vacuum, as a teenager" to "Jiang Yanli should have made her parents stop being abusive, this is a reasonable thing to expect a teenager girl to accomplish" and they are all very bad

🔥 choose violence ask game 🔥

[admirableadmiranda]

Saw that Nie Huaisang post. How he needs "someone with considerable weight and status in words and deeds" to reveal NMJ case, and that person is LWJ (he threw the arm in Gusulan junior nighthunt guarded by LWJ, not YMJ or even JinLing's who must also be guarded by JC).

Then, thinking that all along, NHS didn't even consider "that reliable person" To be JC is just... Hilarity at its finest. Especially when people keep reminiscing the Gusulan trio at their youth, and it's even funnier when we consider the fact that NHS and JC supposedly spent 1 year together compared to WWX's 3 months, or to LWJ whom he has never been close with at all.

To add more salt, NHS still didn't chose him, even when considering that a Sect Leader of one great sect "should have" more weight and privilege, than just a famous senior cultivator Hanguang-Jun. Or considering that JGY has Xue Yang etc, shouldn't the infamous sandu sengshou who has been upholding justice and arresting villainous demonic cultivator, be called to the scene? Rather than LWJ, the supporter of demonic cultivation who let his disciples using WWX's inventions, and even taught them WWX's quotes about dividing the class of evil spirits.

Wanna guess why NHS didn't even give him a role? LMAO

Well I'm sure that part of picking Lan Wangji over Jiang Cheng had to do with their respective earned reputation, he needs someone who people are going to listen to, and as we see even when he's correct about Mo Xuanyu being Wei Wuxian, no one actually believes him. He's completely squandered his reputation in those thirteen years that Wei Wuxian was dead and he has no one to blame but himself.

I really don't think the lectures were supposed to be a year long? I've never seen anything in the book that indicated that, though it is a common interpretation. But we do see very clearly during the lectures that the trio is really Wei Wuxian being super cool and fun and charismatic and everyone else putting up with Jiang Cheng so they can hang out with Wei Wuxian.

But yeah, a lot of JC stans arguments fall apart when you look at the things he isn't involved in and doesn't stand against. And it isn't things like him being shut out because 3Zun are best friends, it's that he makes it very clear that he's just not useful for these sorts of things. He doesn't mete out justice, he doesn't keep his word to people, he's got a bitter, rude way of talking to people and he doesn't go out of his way to even talk to people most of the time we see him. You can't just stand there and expect others to do all the work and like you for it. It has to be some level of give and he just doesn't.

NHS may have not been friends with JC, nor more than fair weather friends with WWX, but he does know who honors their arrangements and who doesn't and that's as much as he needs for deciding on who's more likely to help him out.

[lansplaining]

Why didn't the murder of Chang Ping cause more shockwaves? Someone murdered in the most cruel way possible the last surviving member of a dreadful case concerning Xue Yang (which JGY believes to be dead), a demonic cultivator (which might get Jiang Cheng's attention), who was presumably executed by the Chief Cultivator precisely for the crime of murdering said Chang clan (so Nie Huaisang may want to snuff out a bit to get dirt on him). Lan "goes where chaos is" Wangji is presumably out of the ice by then, so he might want to take a look as well.

And even after the "investigation" concluded the sword used for the crime was Shuanghua, wouldn't that still cause a lot of talking? The last male disciple of Baoshan Sanren became a dark evil overlord, and if Xiao Xingchen really is the man responsible for this snafu, they might as well start looking for him to make sure he won't cause trouble in the future!

It does seem to have been a pretty massive deal! But I guess there are a few factors here.

Chang Ping had already been pressured into recanting, which I think can't be overlooked as a factor that would have taken the pressure off, first because some people would probably just accept the recantation, and those who were suspicious of it would probably recognize that it happened because somebody pressured him in a very compelling way, and what if they decided to turn that pressure on anyone else who spoke out about the matter? There's also Chang Ping himself turning down the pressure (quote from the wiki, I think from the official translation): "What can I do aside from this? If I don't tolerate it, the rest of our clan's people wouldn't be safe for long. I'm really grateful, Daozhang, but… please don't help me anymore. Now, helping me would be harming me. I don't want the Yueyang Chang Clan to end yet."

So Chang Ping has deliberately turned attention away from the case by the time he's murdered, and presumably brushed off anyone who tried to raise it or help in the interim. Suspicious, obviously, and he doesn't even try to hide it! But see above-- what would happen to anyone else who tried to push?

The fact that it's supposedly Xiao Xingchen does seem like it should be compelling, and I actually do kind of like how the donghua frames the whole thing as this "what the hell, why did Xiao Xingchen murder somebody?" mystery at first. But the fact that he's this wandering rogue cultivator seems really key-- nobody knows where to find him, nobody is responsible for him, and now there's nobody alive to pressure anyone to do anything about it. And then he doesn't seem to cause any further problems, so it's easy to forget.

It's intended in large part, I'd argue, as commentary on the society at large: without someone as blunt and righteous as Nie Mingjue applying pressure, cases like this just... disappear. Xiao Xingchen took revenge on the guy who recanted his accusation on a murder XXC really stuck his neck out to uncover, seems a bit out of character, but oh well, people change. Seems like he got it out of his system, not our problem.

I do think documented Bright Moon and Gentle Breeze stan Lan Wangji of CQL could easily have gone to investigate, but it does seem like this may have been relatively recently after he left seclusion. And honestly one of my favorite performance moments in CQL is how even just talking about this whole situation clearly just makes Lan Wangji so, so sad. At the end of the day, maybe he was showing a bit of side of him that's more like Lan Xichen: he couldn't change it, so he just didn't want to know.

[pastelcheckereddreams]

I stopped mid-drawing because I saw this screenshot and cannot get Wen Zhuliu out of my head.

Why does he notice something suspicious about the liquor and look towards the bodies of Madam Yu and Jiang Fengmian? Why does he drink it even though he suspects it’s drugged?

I’m having so many thoughts.

Although he doesn’t say much, it’s clear that he prioritises duty over anything else. We can presume from his actions that his main objective is to safeguard Wen Chao at all times. So on that surface assumption alone, he isn’t drinking during the Wen’s celebrations because he must keep a clear head. But then Wen Chao, the son of his (unhinged) employer who has charged him with Wen Chao’s safety, challenges him to drink. 

(Sudden parallel! Wen Chao 🤝 Jin Zixun, forcing people to drink as a power play.)

So the glance towards Madam Yu (and I will go out on a limb and say he’s looking towards Madam Yu specifically) makes sense, because she (moreso than JFM, sorry JFM stans) is the last known threat he can think of. His eyes dart around slightly before he does - confirming he sees no one suspicious in the shadows. He’s simply confirming “the dead woman’s not still a threat...right?” before he acquiesces to the boss’s son’s weak flex to save everyone face.

(There’s a slight nod to superstition there, and a belief in the supernatural, that I’ll return to in a moment.) 

But first let me point out the deeper context, seen in that first screenshot - he knows there’s something sus about the drink. And he drinks anyway. 

That’s a big gamble. Let me explain why - 

This is perhaps the more heart-wrenching scenario: Wen Zhuliu could not see an active threat in those split seconds he scanned the gathered Wen troops upon smelling the unidentified drug in the alcohol. He was perhaps looking for an unfamiliar face, disguised in Wen red, or a flash of bloodied purple in the shadows - Jiang Cheng, despite his presumed incapacitation, or another Jiang clan member. 

Because Wen Zhuliu knows that it wasn’t just the Jiang Sect’s heir that escaped the massacre, but the Jiang head disciple as well. It was Madam Yu’s last (rare, poignant) selfless act to save them both.

And he looks to Madam Yu’s corpse.

Perhaps, in that moment, he weighs the probability of the Jiang poisoning their own liquor supply in preparation for a lost battle (unlikely - they surprised the Jiang) or the Jiang heir has done so under their very noses sometime in his later capture. 

Perhaps he reasons, with Zidian-quick logic, that both scenarios are unlikely, and so he drinks anyway. 

Or perhaps he looks towards the corpses of Jiang Wangyin’s parents, so disrespectfully displayed after such a heroic last stand, knowing the boy has also just had his core ripped from him at his own hands, and thinks - so be it.

(Do you think Wen Zhuliu spoke to Jiang Cheng before he took his core? Do you think Jiang Cheng looked at him with the same fire in his eyes as his parents?) 

In his quiet, duty-bound way, Wen Zhuliu comes across as a man who respects those who have earned it. And Madam Yu surely did in her last stand. So did, perhaps, Jiang Cheng. 

So he drains his cup. 

(I don’t think he did this in some sort of salute to her, though, despite the formidable opponent she made. His eyes don’t linger on her, instead his gaze is down in an internal calculation.)    

A few seconds later, Wen Chao is appeased but Wen Zhuliu’s suspicions are confirmed as he feels the drug take effect:

He closes his eyes and settles back, presumably now knowing the drug to be a simple sedative and - deeming it to be harmless, as he doesn’t stop Wen Chao as he urges Jiaojiao to drink more - focuses on his internal force to dampen its effects. 

But there’s this lingering shot, as he does, on the blood still dripping from Madam Yu’s fresh corpse as dancers celebrate the Wen’s victory:

It feels ominous, which circles me back to the superstitious undertones of the moment - emphasised mostly by the soundtrack. The ominous music rises towards a crescendo just as the scene above cuts to Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng - alive, (mostly) whole, being rescued. The Jiang clan live on, despite the Wen’s best efforts at subordinating them; despite the two Sect leaders hanging lifeless from the rafters.

But I can’t help but circle back further - back further than the moment Wen Zhuliu first glanced towards Madam Yu’s corpse, or the moment the drugged liquor was first served. The moment this scene begins, we hear the flute music associated with Chengqing.* 

*Will edit later with the track name and possibly more meta. 

So I wonder if this scene, this moment, is actually subtly foreshadowing Wen Zhuliu - and Wen Chao’s - end. And that focus on Madam Yu? My own headcanons about a history between the two aside, that shot has a sense of lingering, of unfinished business. 

The scene abruptly cuts to Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian - the two people that will bring about Wen Zhuliu’s death, that were saved by Madam Yu, that were harmed directly by Wen Zhuliu, and who will consequently finish the fight Madam Yu started. 

They are both her legacy, and this is the moment death marks Wen Zhuliu. Everything after he takes that drink is inevitable, because he chooses social protocol/servitude to the Wen over self-preservation.

Perhaps, just maybe, there’s even a Wei Wuxian parallel there - food for thought. Their outfits certainly match.   

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Lol jc stans: if you want to talk about his negative traits we can talk about his positive traits in the canon tag.

Like there's nothing wrong with that? Talk about all the canon positive stuff about him? Its real funny for them to say that when majority of stans have been making up weirdest fanons in the 'reclaiming it for beloved jiujiu' moment, including straight up denying jc hitting jl, or if he hit jl 'thats just typical asian discipling!' (Yikes), or excusing wen remnants murder 'because jc was grieving' or that jc raised jl, talking about headcanons in canon tag intentionally and then straight up attacking people over talking about canon, (typical jc stan behaviour) is what people have an issue over, after harassing fans out of main tag now all this bs in the canon tag when stans refer to edited donghua and manghua changes as canon (and that stuff isnt even adaptation supported, like in cql jc did stab until wwx let go, falling off the cliff but best bro jc fanons are more common from that side) and all the xicheng fanart/talk of mingchen or whoever the hell they can find to ship with the homophobe (but how dare you call him one when he's one!) is 'just the poor jc stans interpretation of canon who the evil antis harass by asking for source'

I encourage this. Yes please bring up how he had good intentions as a child when he said he'd protect Wei Wuxian from dogs. Bring up how he felt empathy and tried to stop Madam Yu from a whipping that was worse than they both had to witness before. Yes bring up how his first intentional reaction when he saw that Wei Wuxian would be caught was to distract the Wen soldiers with himself.

He had underlying good intentions at first. I certainly have never denied that in his own capacity he loves and does care about others, all people do. The matter is the conditions that he started to see that love as worthy of providing. It is and was a transactional love from the start of their friendship. Might not have been the intent at all, but that was how it morphed and was expected to be given as they grew older.

Relationships can't grow or be good for another when they are built on "If you do this for me I will do this back". It's already placing a denotation of what you are worth emotionally. And once you start building up a list of resentments against another person, that worth has already begun to shift less in favor of equality and share of burdens. My burdens take precedence over the suffering of others, because my suffering and pain matter more in the long run. This view enforces a lack of empathy and kindness and begets further cruelty and apathy.

So yes, bring up his good, but also remember that good is used to remind everyone t how Jiang Cheng would not have ever done this if he knew what it entailed and immediately regrets extending his kindness to Wei Wuxian because the benefit didn't outweigh the suffering for him.

You do not say he suffered so much and deride others for accepting that without asking for more or, having known in the first place. Grace requires being humble and saying no more than needed to exchange care. Jiang Cheng doesn't know how to do this as he views kindness given to him as pity or looking down on him.

[mxtxfanatic]

I am currently fighting for my life against a JC stan, and though we have now derailed into talking about the ethical implications of WWX's cultivation path and how demonic cultivation hurts the corpses (I'm trying really hard to explain Gui Dao vs Mo Dao, and how what LQR and LWJ says about it isn't necessarily the truth, we'll see how it takes), I was also asked to come with proofs that JC didn't singlehandedly rebuilt the YMJ sect.

I have already gone over how Wen Chao didn't destroy the compounds, but my memory is a bit iffy about the rest. The reason that so many disciples came after the campaign was indeed because of Wei Wuxian, wasn't it? Or am I misremembering something?

(Also, if you don't mind another question, did they know what WZH could do before JC lost his core? I am of the opinion that he wouldn't have tried to attract the attention of the Wen soldiers had he known he'd be caught and lose his core, but maybe I'm wrong and he played the bait knowing full well what would happen?)

I think I answer a lot of your questions in this post. As for the Wen Zhuliu question: yes they already knew about his power. Everyone knew about it during the indoctrination camp, and even if they didn’t then, when the Wen invade Lotus Pier, Madam Yu directly calls him The Core-Melting hand. Whether or not Jiang Cheng drew the Wen cultivators away from Wei Wuxian with the full understanding that he could be caught and lose his golden core is not the issue, because the only thing that would change would be whether we ascribe to Jiang Cheng the label of “ignorant” on top of everything else. The crux of it is that, when he lost his core, he did blame Wei Wuxian for that and lashed out at the other boy for the consequences of his own actions, revealing that he’s the one with the actual “hero complex” out of the two.

[lilnasxvevo]

Also things that have made me giggle out loud:

-Lan Zhan and Jiang Cheng GLAAARING at each other across the. Hut? from each other completely unaware that their junior disciples are getting their asses kicked while they’re busy trying to communicate their resentment and hatred of one another

-In the flashback when Jin Zixuan doesn’t have an answer when Wei Wuxian says something “I have heard that the Lanling Jin clan have impeccable manners. Now I can say otherwise.” and Zixuan just kind of stalks off and snaps one of his sleeves behind him as he turns the corner. We stan a comebackless icon.

[featherfur]

Okay but if we go by donghua rules then Jiang Cheng might just have purple lightning shooting off anytime he gets remotely annoyed and I'd just like to put forth the idea of the Jiang Disciples sitting around him when he's reading letters from Sect Leader Yao and tossing marshmallows into each other's mouths through the angry lightning and getting perfectly toasted mallows every time

[wanyinchen]

I'm sure this has been done before but this...I-I--It came to me in a vision, and it refused to leave me until I drew it.✨

After the nighthunt incident, JC’s first and second spiders began to bully him into leaving his hair down and in really loose braids. They wanted to see if Yunmeng Jiang could actually combust from how pretty their Sect Leader is, and they were right. And when the spiders heard that Sect Leader Lan was visiting (his crush was embarrassingly obvious), they began to double the bullying, shoving JC into more intricate robes than his daily violet jianxiu robes and ta-da! LXC has lost all ability to function. Poor man.

Anyways, headcanon: Jiang Cheng is really oblivious and dense when it comes to positive (especially romantic natured) emotions from other people. His self-loathing is THAT strong. Like “Oh, Lan Xichen doesn’t love me, that’s impossible. I can’t even love myself” while LXC is in the background “<3<3<3 WANYIN!!!! ILY!!! ILY and ur faults and scars<3<3 Please let me love you<3″